Ascend - The Great Books Podcast: Episode Summary
Title: Aeschylus' Oresteia: Libation Bearers Explained Part Two
Hosts: Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan
Guest: Thomas Lackey
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Introduction
In the second part of their deep dive into Aeschylus' Oresteia, hosts Adam Minihan and Deacon Harrison Garlick welcome their friend Thomas Lackey to explore the intricacies of the play Libation Bearers. This episode focuses on the parallels between Libation Bearers and Homer's Odyssey, the moral and ethical dilemmas faced by Orestes, and the underlying themes of justice and vengeance that permeate the text.
Parallels Between Libation Bearers and the Odyssey
Thomas Lackey draws insightful comparisons between Libation Bearers and Odyssey, highlighting how Orestes’ actions mirror those of Odysseus. Both characters return home under disguises—Odysseus as a beggar and Orestes as a stranger—to test their households before exacting vengeance.
Thomas Lackey [00:10]: “We're going to discuss some really deep parallels in this text to the Odyssey.”
Adam Minihan echoes this sentiment, noting Orestes' strategic approach resembles Odysseus' cunning tactics.
Adam Minihan [08:34]: “You know, it's a very Adam Minahan type of plan. It's like, I don't know, we'll just kind of wing it.”
Orestes' Moral Dilemma and the Curse
A significant portion of the discussion centers on Orestes' internal conflict: avenging his father Agamemnon’s murder while avoiding the curse that comes from killing his mother, Clytemnestra. The hosts explore how Aeschylus weaves this tension into the narrative, presenting Orestes as both a rightful avenger and a potential pariah.
Thomas Lackey [09:30]: “A coming of age story, right? Avenging his father being the Blood Avenger is him taking on the mantle of adulthood.”
Deacon Garlick adds depth to this analysis by examining Clytemnestra's dual role and her manipulation of gender roles to maintain control within the household.
Deacon Garlick [10:05]: “She's very much in control and she's thinking everything through.”
Character Analysis: Clytemnestra and the Nurse
The episode delves into the complexities of Clytemnestra's character, portraying her as both a mastermind and a conflicted mother. The nurse, serving as a parallel to Odysseus' Eurycleia, becomes a pivotal character who questions Clytemnestra's authenticity and motivations.
Thomas Lackey [17:42]: “She wants to know more and she's like, well, I guess this will be able to get it out of.”
Deacon Garlick highlights the nurse’s role in challenging Clytemnestra's narrative, adding layers to the play’s exploration of truth and deceit.
Deacon Garlick [19:22]: “I think she's very much in control and she's thinking everything through.”
Themes of Justice and Vengeance
A core theme discussed is the concept of lex talionis—an eye for an eye—and its implications in the play. The introduction of the Furies represents the perpetuation of this cycle of vengeance, emphasizing a system where justice is blind and unforgiving.
Thomas Lackey [57:50]: “These immortal women who hunt down and avenge those who violate the most primal understandings of justice.”
Deacon Garlick reflects on the mechanistic nature of the Furies, who enforce retribution without discernment.
Deacon Garlick [58:09]: “They only care that blood was spilled and therefore blood has to be spilled in return.”
Critical Moments and Dramatic Elements
The hosts analyze key scenes, such as Orestes’ confrontation with Clytemnestra and the dramatic appearance of the Furies. They discuss how these moments serve to heighten the tension and underscore the inescapable nature of fate and retribution in Greek tragedy.
Thomas Lackey [46:40]: “They want to let it happen, but somehow not rebound back to them.”
Adam Minihan praises specific lines for their philosophical depth, particularly Orestes’ grappling with guilt and destiny.
Adam Minihan [41:42]: “He says, 'Make all mankind your enemy, not the gods.' I mean, isn't that like the Christian ideas, too?”
Conclusion and Forward Look
As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the unresolved tensions within Libation Bearers and anticipate how these will be addressed in the subsequent play, Eumenides. They underscore the evolution of justice from mere vengeance to a more nuanced understanding that seeks harmony and balance within society.
Thomas Lackey [61:32]: “I think the Eumenides... really illuminates the first two because you see more of what Escalus was trying to do.”
Deacon Garlick emphasizes the necessity of evolving justice systems to break the cycle of vengeance, hinting at the transformative potential presented in Eumenides.
Deacon Garlick [60:20]: “there has to be some notion that peace is restored, right?”
Notable Quotes
- Thomas Lackey [00:07]: “The second part of the second play in the Oresteia.”
- Adam Minihan [14:10]: “If she isn't, like, is she really truly sorry like that, or like, sad about him dying...”
- Thomas Lackey [46:40]: “They're very much pro Orestes here.”
- Deacon Garlick [58:09]: “They only care that blood was spilled and therefore blood has to be spilled in return.”
- Adam Minihan [41:42]: “... like, what will men say of you? ... like, what is it to profit the world if you lose your soul?”
Final Thoughts
This episode of Ascend offers a comprehensive analysis of Libation Bearers, exploring its rich thematic content and complex characters. By drawing parallels to the Odyssey and dissecting the moral quandaries faced by Orestes, the hosts provide listeners with a deeper understanding of this pivotal work in Western literature. The discussion sets the stage for future episodes, promising further exploration of justice, transformation, and the enduring legacy of the Great Books.