Ascend – The Great Books Podcast: Aeschylus' Oresteia – The Eumenides Explained Part Two

Release Date: February 25, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Ascend – The Great Books Podcast, hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan delve into the final installment of Aeschylus' trilogy, "The Eumenides". Joined by guests Dr. Frank Grabowski, a philosophy PhD professor at Rogers State and a diaconate candidate, and Mr. Thomas Lackey, an independent scholar, the discussion explores the maturation of justice within the text and its foundational role for subsequent philosophical discourse.

Appreciation of the Oresteia Trilogy

The conversation begins with the hosts and guests expressing their appreciation for the Oresteia trilogy. Deacon Harrison Garlick reflects on his initial engagement with the trilogy, particularly highlighting the profound impact of "The Eumenides" in bridging the narratives of Homer and Plato. He states:

"The third play, this Eumenides, I think, is the one that sold it on me. That really showed me how these plays really can be an intellectual bridge between Homer and Plato..."
[05:25] Deacon Harrison Garlick

Mr. Thomas Lackey concurs, emphasizing the unique trilogies as essential for understanding the evolution of justice from ancient to modern times.

Maturation of Justice in The Eumenides

A central theme of the episode is the maturation of justice depicted in "The Eumenides". The guests explore how Aeschylus transitions from a Blood Avenger model of justice to a procedural justice system, laying the groundwork for later philosophical thought.

Mr. Thomas Lackey offers a nuanced perspective on Aeschylus' portrayal of justice:

"He's giving a system by which people can manage their disappointments, which is, I think, a very important thing."
[08:32] Mr. Thomas Lackey

This shift signifies a move towards a more dispassionate and fair method of adjudicating conflicts, moving away from personal vendettas and cyclical violence.

Analysis of Key Characters

Athena: The Embodiment of Procedural Justice

Athena, the goddess of wisdom, plays a pivotal role as the judge overseeing Orestes' trial. Her speeches emphasize the importance of law and procedure over personal retribution. One of her notable lines underscores the balance between anarchy and tyranny:

"Neither anarchy nor tyranny. My people worship the mean. I urge you, shore it up with reverence and never banish terror from the gates."
[39:25] Athena (Approximate Timestamp)

This highlights her vision of a balanced polis where justice is administered through established laws rather than individual acts of vengeance.

Apollo: The Advocate with Old-World Perspectives

Apollo serves as Orestes' advocate but exhibits a blend of traditional views and emerging procedural ideals. His arguments often reflect an old-world attachment to familial justice, occasionally clashing with Athena's more structured approach. For instance, Apollo challenges the Furies by questioning the legitimacy of divine justice:

"The woman you call the mother of the child is not the parent, just a nurse to the seed..."
[26:32] Apollo (Approximate Timestamp)

This rhetoric demonstrates his struggle to reconcile personal loyalty with the evolving concepts of civic justice.

The Furies: From Retribution to Benevolence

Originally embodiments of vengeance, the Furies undergo a transformation into the Eumenides, symbolizing their integration into the new justice system. This metamorphosis reflects the broader societal shift from violent retribution to institutionalized justice. Dr. Frank Grabowski notes:

"Athena expresses this newly developed understanding of justice as not embodied in a person, but rather the polis."
[41:37] Dr. Frank Grabowski

The Furies' acceptance of their new role signifies their adaptation to collective legal principles, moving away from personal vendettas.

Procedural Aspects of Justice

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the procedural elements introduced in "The Eumenides". The establishment of the Areopagus tribunal, the role of jury (albeit ambiguously numbered), and the casting of lots represent foundational steps towards a structured legal system.

Mr. Thomas Lackey raises critical questions about the trial's mechanics:

"If it's 5 to 5 and she votes that he's not guilty, then he is what he is. Even if she would not have voted."
[60:30] Mr. Thomas Lackey

This ambiguity highlights the complexities in transitioning from a personal to a procedural system of justice, where the presumption of innocence and tie-breaking mechanisms become crucial.

Integration of Furies into the Polis

The transition of the Furies into the Eumenides symbolizes the integration of traditional retributive forces into the state apparatus. This change underscores the civilizing process in Athenian society, where supernatural manifestations of vengeance are absorbed into institutional justice.

Deacon Harrison Garlick summarizes the transformation:

"They've been giving a system. A crude analogy here, you know, is gasoline in an engine... to create some kind of habit in me to be good."
[46:10] Deacon Harrison Garlick

This analogy illustrates how established rituals of vengeance are being systematized to foster a habitual respect for law and order within the polis.

Philosophical Insights and Connections

The hosts and guests draw connections between the justice depicted in "The Eumenides" and later philosophical thought, particularly Plato, Aristotle, and Thomas Aquinas. The procedural justice system introduced by Aeschylus lays the groundwork for Platonic dialogues and Aristotelian ethics, emphasizing the role of law as a teacher and the mean as a virtue.

Mr. Thomas Lackey touches on these philosophical underpinnings:

"...the procedural trappings around it. And that is going to create certain benefits."
[62:00] Mr. Thomas Lackey

This discussion underscores the enduring influence of Aeschylus' work on Western philosophical and legal traditions.

Critical Reflections

Deacon Harrison Garlick raises a critical point about the literary and philosophical depth of "The Eumenides":

"The trial can go pretty quickly because the whole point is to show the procedures. We're not getting into a philosophical debate about what justice is."
[07:26] Deacon Harrison Garlick

While acknowledging the play's role in illustrating procedural justice, he questions whether it offers a comprehensive understanding of the principle of justice itself. Dr. Frank Grabowski responds by highlighting the etiological nature of the play:

"This is giving us this kind of artistic account of where justice... comes from and does so in a very beautiful and artistic way."
[83:17] Dr. Frank Grabowski

This perspective frames the play as an origin story for Athenian justice, rather than a definitive exposition of its principles.

Ranking the Plays: Agamemnon as the Favorite

When prompted to rank the trilogy, Mr. Thomas Lackey and Dr. Frank Grabowski both express a preference for Agamemnon due to its dramatic tension and character development. Mr. Lackey appreciates the play for:

• Dramatic Complexity: The intertwined motives and moral dilemmas surrounding Agamemnon's actions.
• Character Depth: The portrayal of characters like Cassandra, who embodies courage and foresight.

Mr. Lackey summarizes his admiration:

"Cassandra is a compelling character... an innocent victim who... faces her fate courageously."
[96:29] Mr. Thomas Lackey

This preference highlights the play's effectiveness in depicting human emotions and ethical conflicts, which resonates strongly with listeners.

Conclusion

As the episode concludes, Deacon Harrison Garlick and the guests reflect on their journey through the Oresteia, expressing gratitude for the insights gained. They emphasize the trilogy's enduring relevance in understanding the evolution of justice and its influence on Western thought.

"I've really grown an appreciation for Aeschylus as a playwright, but more importantly as a thinker..."
[103:59] Dr. Frank Grabowski

Looking ahead, the podcast transitions to exploring Dante's Inferno for Lent, inviting listeners to continue their journey through the Great Books.

Notable Quotes

• Deacon Harrison Garlick
  "[...] the first trial of bloodshed. She mentions the Craig of Aries and gives a little bit of the history about it..."
  [39:25]

• Mr. Thomas Lackey
  "If you remove all punishments, you're essentially teaching the people that crime is respectable and endorsed."
  [44:47]

• Dr. Frank Grabowski
  "The mark of a good artist is to be didactic without being dogmatic."
  [82:08]

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of "The Eumenides," illuminating how Aeschylus crafts a narrative that not only resolves a familial tragedy but also pioneers a structural transformation in the concept of justice. By integrating procedural elements and redefining the role of divine retribution, Aeschylus sets the stage for the philosophical explorations of justice that would follow in Western intellectual history.

Listeners are encouraged to explore the full depth of the Oresteia trilogy and reflect on its implications for modern understandings of law, ethics, and societal order.