Ascend - The Great Books Podcast: Episode Summary – "Antigone by Sophocles Part I"

Release Date: May 13, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Ascend - The Great Books Podcast, hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan delve into Sophocles' renowned tragedy, Antigone. Alongside returning guests Dr. Frank Hrabowski, a philosophy professor and diaconate candidate, and David Niles, co-host of the Catholic Man Show, the discussion navigates the intricate themes of familial duty, divine law, and civic responsibility that resonate throughout the play. This summary encapsulates their in-depth conversation, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and profound insights for both seasoned readers and newcomers alike.

Host and Guest Introductions

• Deacon Harrison Garlick: Host, husband, father, and chancellor/general counsel for the Diocese of Tulsa. He emphasizes the podcast’s mission to explore Great Books through the lens of Catholic intellectual tradition.

• Dr. Frank Hrabowski: Professor of Philosophy at Roger State University, third Order Franciscan, and diaconate candidate. He brings academic rigor and theological perspective to the discussion.

• David Niles: Co-host of the Catholic Man Show and member of the Sunday Great Books reading group. He offers practical insights from his experiences as a financial advisor and hobby farmer.

Background on Sophocles and Antigone

Sophocles (496–406 B.C.), a pivotal figure in ancient Greek tragedy, authored over a hundred plays, though only seven survive today. Younger than his contemporary Aeschylus, Sophocles witnessed the rise and fall of the Athenian empire, infusing his works with themes of political power, justice, and the human condition. Antigone, written around 441 B.C., is the second oldest of his Theban plays and serves as a continuation and culmination of the Oedipus cycle.

First Impressions of Antigone

The episode opens with Deacon Garlick setting the stage for Antigone's exploration of moral conflict in post-civil war Thebes. The central dilemma arises when King Creon decrees that one brother, deemed a traitor, must be left unburied. Antigone defies this edict, initiating a profound discourse on:

• Familial Piety: The duty to honor and respect one’s family members.
• Divine Law vs. Civic Law: The tension between higher, unchanging moral laws and the mutable laws of the state.
• Order of the Cosmos: The alignment of personal, civic, and divine orders in maintaining societal harmony.

Notable Quote:

Deacon Harrison Garlick [00:00]: “...we'll look at the great female protagonist, Antigone herself, and examine her role as the dark sign of the gods alongside the threefold hierarchy of piety and a nascent concept of natural law.”

Character Analysis

Antigone

Antigone emerges as a symbol of moral conviction and familial loyalty. Her unwavering determination to bury her brother, Polynices, despite Creon's decree, positions her as both a hero and a complex character grappling with deeper philosophical questions.

Notable Quote:

Antigone [38:07]: “No matter, death longs for the same rights for all.”

Ismene

Ismene represents the pragmatic and obedient side, hesitant to challenge authority and the established order. Her reluctance contrasts sharply with Antigone’s defiance, highlighting different responses to moral dilemmas.

Notable Quote:

Ismene [70:10]: “What, you'd kill your own son's bride? Absolutely, there are other fields for him to plow.”

Creon

As the King of Thebes, Creon embodies civic duty and authority, prioritizing the common good of the polis over personal and familial ties. His rigid interpretation of law and order sets him at odds with Antigone’s moral imperatives.

Notable Quote:

Creon [62:28]: “Whoever pleases a friend above the good of his own country, he is nothing.”

Thematic Exploration

Justice and Order

The podcast delves into the hierarchy of justice, examining how Antigone and Creon embody different interpretations:

• Antigone: Advocates for a universal moral law, transcending human-made laws.
• Creon: Focuses on the stability and security of the state, aligning civic laws with his perception of divine will.

Piety and Divine Law

The discussion highlights the threefold hierarchy of piety:

1. Family: Fundamental obligations to loved ones.
2. Polis (State): Duties towards the community and its laws.
3. Divine: Adherence to higher, often inscrutable, moral laws.

Notable Quote:

Antigone [53:03]: “I know I must please where I must please the most.”

Natural Law and Cosmic Hierarchy

The conversation touches upon the emergence of natural law concepts, where even the gods are subject to higher moral principles, laying the groundwork for later philosophical debates like the Euthyphro dilemma.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Frank Hrabowski [86:29]: “They’re very wise... practical wisdom when it comes to politics…”

Key Quotes with Analysis

1. Antigone’s Defiance:

   Antigone [00:00]: “...the moral conflict that erupts when Antigone defies King Creon and buries her brother...”

   Analysis: Sets the central conflict of personal duty versus state law.

2. Creon’s Civic Duty:

   Creon [62:28]: “Never at my hands will the traitor be honored above the patriot.”

   Analysis: Emphasizes his prioritization of state loyalty over individual allegiance.

3. Chorus on Human Dominance:

   Chorus [56:37]: “Zeus hates with a vengeance all bravado, the mighty boasts of men...”

   Analysis: Reflects the tension between human ambition and divine authority, underscoring the play’s exploration of hubris.

Ambiguity and Interpretation

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Antigone’s true motivations:

• Martyrdom vs. Genuine Piety: Is Antigone seeking a glorious death to reclaim familial honor, or is she authentically driven by divine duty?

• Consistency of Character: The hosts debate whether Antigone remains a steadfast heroine or exhibits contradictions in her actions and motivations.

Notable Quote:

Deacon Harrison Garlick [35:20]: “Are they looking at the same good, or are they looking at a hierarchy of good but emphasizing different parts of it?”

Author’s Intentions

Sophocles is portrayed as a philosophical teacher, using Antigone to:

• Explore Justice and Order: How personal, civic, and divine laws intersect and sometimes conflict.

• Encourage Intellectual Engagement: By embedding ambiguity, Sophocles prompts the audience to reflect deeply on the nature of justice, duty, and morality.

Notable Quote:

Deacon Harrison Garlick [44:13]: “...Sophocles is trying to explore what does that even look like for us to do that? And so these are all questions of justice. How does this actually unfurl?”

Connections to Later Philosophical Concepts

The hosts draw parallels between Antigone’s themes and later philosophical and theological ideas:

• Euthyphro Dilemma: The conflict between divine commands and inherent moral laws.

• Natural Law: The notion that certain rights and moral values are inherent and universal, influencing Christian teachings and Western thought.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Frank Hrabowski [108:36]: “Is it, in the most positive sense, a form of justice, because if you go back to Dante, the worst sin you can do is be a betrayer...”

Upcoming Topics

The episode concludes by setting the stage for the next discussion in Part II, where the focus will shift to the latter half of Antigone. Anticipated topics include:

• Character Development: The evolution of Creon and Antigone’s motivations.

• Introduction of New Characters: The entrance of Haman and his role in the unfolding tragedy.

• Themes of Fate and Predestination: Further exploration of how ancestral curses and divine will shape the narrative.

Closing Remarks:

Deacon Harrison Garlick [128:51]: “...what is Sophocles trying to teach us? If she's the hero, is she not? What does that mean?”

Conclusion

This episode of Ascend - The Great Books Podcast offers a nuanced analysis of Antigone, dissecting its complex characters and enduring themes. By intertwining classical literary critique with theological and philosophical insights, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the play’s exploration of justice, duty, and moral integrity. As the discussion progresses into Part II, listeners can anticipate an even deeper dive into Sophocles' masterpiece, unraveling the layers of meaning that have secured Antigone's place in the canon of Western literature.

Notable Resources Mentioned:

• Free 115 Question & Answer Guide to the Iliad by Deacon Harrison Garlick (available on the podcast’s upcoming website launch).
• Follow Ascend on Social Platforms: X (formerly Twitter), YouTube.
• Support the Podcast: Patreon.

Join the Conversation

Whether you're a first-time reader or revisiting Sophocles, Ascend - The Great Books Podcast invites you to engage in thoughtful discussions that illuminate the timeless wisdom of the Great Books. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for more resources and to join the community.