Ascend - The Great Books Podcast Episode: Dante's Inferno Ep. 7: Cantos 32-34 with Evan Amato Release Date: April 15, 2025

Introduction

In the final installment of their Lent reading of Dante's Inferno, hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan welcome esteemed guest Evan Amato. Drawing upon his extensive knowledge of cultural intricacies and the Great Books, Evan provides insightful commentary on the concluding cantos of Inferno. Together, they delve deep into the ninth circle of Hell, unpacking its symbolism, the nature of evil as depicted by Dante, and the profound lessons embedded within the poet's masterful narrative.

Overview of the Ninth Circle of Hell

The ninth circle of Dante's Hell, Cocytus, serves as the ultimate abyss where the most grievous sinners—betrayers and traitors—are eternally punished. This final circle is distinguished by its frozen landscape, representing the absolute stillness and absence of divine love. Deacon Harrison Garlick introduces the complexities of this canto, emphasizing the transition from simple fraud in the eighth circle to the intricate treachery housed within Cocytus.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [00:00]: "Today we finish Dante's Inferno by exploring the frozen hell of the Ninth Circle, punishing those guilty of treachery or complex fraud."

Discussion on Betrayal and Treason

Evan Amato categorizes the sins in the ninth circle into betrayal against kin, country, and benefactors. He delineates the distinction between the eighth circle's betrayal and the ninth's treachery, highlighting the profound malice inherent in complex fraud. The discussion underscores how these betrayals disrupt the foundational bonds of society and the natural order, making them particularly heinous.

Evan Amato [03:39]: "These are people who betrayed people around them that they seem to have or should have had a natural bond of love to." [05:00]

Count Ugolino’s Story: Victim and Sinner

A focal point of Cantos 32-34 is the harrowing tale of Count Ugolino. Deacon Harrison Garlick and Evan Amato explore the duality of Ugolino as both a victim of political machinations and a perpetrator of betrayal. This narrative exemplifies how political power can corrupt, leading to cycles of betrayal and suffering.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [33:54]: "He's a betrayer to his party, to his country... He has to be a betrayer because he has to betray people he should have had a natural bond of love to." [34:05]

The Depiction of Satan

Dante's portrayal of Satan is starkly different from later literary interpretations, such as Milton's Paradise Lost. Instead of a fiery rebel, Dante presents Satan as a colossal, grotesque figure trapped in ice, symbolizing his complete separation from divine love and motion.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [81:28]: "He has become the greatest prisoner of Hell, not its ruler. His wings, forever flapping, serve no purpose but to illustrate his eternal entrapment." [85:35]

Evan Amato highlights the inversion of Satan's role, emphasizing his impotence and eternal suffering, which underscores the futility of rebellion against divine order.

Evan Amato [84:00]: "He is not ruling Hell but is its greatest prisoner, symbolizing the ultimate defeat of rebellion." [85:35]

Contrapasso and Its Significance

The concept of contrapasso, or the punishment reflecting the sin, is meticulously examined. In the ninth circle, sinners are encased in ice proportionate to their betrayal, symbolizing the coldness and absence of love in their actions. This stark imagery contrasts with earlier depictions of Hell, emphasizing the depth of their depravity.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [14:03]: "Ice is not just cold; it's the absolute stillness, the spiritual death, highlighting their incapacity for redemption." [15:04]

Transformation of Dante the Pilgrim

A pivotal moment occurs when Dante the pilgrim exhibits unexpected aggression toward a sinner, pulling his hair in frustration. This shift indicates an imperfect maturation of Dante's character, reflecting his ongoing struggle to align his pity with divine will. The hosts discuss how this moment foreshadows Dante's journey through Purgatorio, where his understanding and alignment with divine principles deepen.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [40:36]: "Dante's actions here may signify an imperfect maturation, struggling to align his personal emotions with divine justice." [41:51]

Insights on Divine Justice and Mercy

Throughout their discussion, Garlick and Amato emphasize that Dante’s Hell, while serving as a place of punishment, inherently reflects divine mercy. The contrapasso is not purely retributive but serves as a means for sinners to confront the gravity of their sins, illustrating the moral and spiritual lessons Dante aims to impart.

Evan Amato [48:19]: "Hell’s structure is an act of divine mercy, guiding souls to confront and understand their sins." [48:19]

They also touch upon the idea that despite the severe punishments, there exists an element of hope in the structure of Hell, as it sets the stage for the soul’s journey through Purgatorio towards redemption.

Conclusion and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Evan Amato reflect on the profound imagery and theological underpinnings of the ninth circle. They highlight Dante’s genius in portraying betrayal and the nature of evil, urging listeners to internalize the lessons on love, loyalty, and the consequences of deviating from divine order.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [98:39]: "The stars symbolize the divine love that moves the cosmos, a theme that continues into Paradiso." [98:39]

Final Remarks and Future Episodes

In their closing remarks, Garlick and Minihan outline upcoming episodes, encouraging listeners to continue their exploration of the Great Books. They announce further discussions on Purgatorio and other classical texts, emphasizing the podcast’s commitment to fostering deep, meaningful conversations around literature that has shaped Western civilization.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [101:27]: "Stay with us as we delve into the transformative journey of Purgatorio next Lent, continuing our exploration of Dante's Divine Comedy." [101:27]

Evan Amato reaffirms his appreciation for the collaboration, inviting listeners to engage with his work on various platforms.

Evan Amato [100:48]: "Join me on X for more insights and discussions on the Great Books. Thank you for having me." [100:48]

Notable Quotes

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [02:34]: "Why ice makes for an excellent analog for the nature of evil."

• Evan Amato [04:41]: "Dante more than anyone else showed me the depth of what you can get out of the classics."

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [14:03]: "Ice is not just cold; it's the absolute stillness, the spiritual death."

• Evan Amato [75:00]: "This is really interesting because some of these betrayals are so profound that the soul is immediate condemned."

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [95:37]: "Satan's wings, forever flapping, serve no purpose but to illustrate his eternal entrapment."

Key Takeaways

1. Nature of Evil: The ninth circle utilizes ice to symbolize the coldness and immutability of souls consumed by betrayal, contrasting with the fiery imagery typically associated with Hell.

2. Betrayal as Ultimate Sin: Dante categorizes treachery against kin, country, and benefactors as the most heinous sins, reflecting their profound impact on societal and divine order.

3. Count Ugolino’s Duality: Ugolino exemplifies the complex interplay between victimhood and culpability, illustrating how political power can corrupt and lead to cycles of betrayal.

4. Depiction of Satan: Unlike later literary portrayals, Dante's Satan is a static, entrapped figure, emphasizing the futility of rebellion against divine authority.

5. Contrapasso as Moral Lesson: The punishments in Cocytus are not just retributive but serve as moral lessons, highlighting the absence of love and movement as consequences of betrayal.

6. Dante’s Maturation: The pilgrim Dante exhibits moments of imperfect maturation, struggling to fully align his pity with divine justice, setting the stage for his journey through Purgatorio.

Join Ascend for Future Explorations

As Ascend continues its journey through the Great Books, listeners are encouraged to engage with upcoming episodes, participate in small group readings, and explore additional resources available on the podcast’s website and social media platforms. The hosts and guests remain committed to guiding listeners through the transformative power of literature, fostering intellectual and spiritual growth.

For more information and to access resources, visit thegreatbookspodcast.com.

End of Summary