Episode Summary: "First Alcibiades by Plato Part Two"

Podcast: Ascend - The Great Books Podcast
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick, Adam Minihan
Guests: Alec Bianco, Athenian Stranger
Release Date: August 12, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Ascend - The Great Books Podcast," hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan delve deeper into Plato's dialogue, "First Alcibiades," accompanied by insightful guests Alec Bianco and the enigmatic Athenian Stranger. The discussion centers around Socrates's teachings on the body and soul, the nature of vice, self-cultivation, and the intricate relationship between philosophy and politics.

Exploring "First Alcibiades"

[00:00] Deacon Harrison Garlick:
Deacon Harrison Garlick sets the stage by emphasizing the significance of "First Alcibiades" as a pivotal starting point for Plato studies. He outlines the focus areas for the episode, including Socrates's teachings on the body and soul, the slavery of vice, and Socrates's concluding warnings.

"Plato is philosophy and First Alcibiades is one of the best places you could start in your studies on Plato."

[01:37 - 03:24] Alec Bianco & Deacon Harrison Garlick:
Alec introduces the comprehensive 20-question guide to "First Alcibiades," highlighting its depth and utility for group studies. Deacon announces the launch of a new Substack platform, "Ascent," dedicated to exploring Christian spirituality, mysticism, and the ascent of the soul to God.

"The substack will publish two articles a week focusing on kind of the depths of Christian spirituality, on mysticism, on theosis, sanctification."

The Nature of Man: Soul vs. Body

[07:03 - 10:27] Alec Bianco & Athenian Stranger:
Alec raises a profound philosophical question based on Socrates's discourse: Is man solely the soul, the body, or a combination of both? The Athenian Stranger elucidates Socrates's position, aligning it with Platonic thought that places the soul as the essence of man, with the body being a mere possession.

"Alec Bianco [07:03]: Man can only be one of these three things. He can either be the soul, the body, or body and soul. And he seems very much... to land very much on man as a soul."

"Athenian Stranger [07:15]: ...knowledge actually ends up being Platonic more so than say Aristotelian."

This discussion bridges Platonic philosophy with Catholic intellectual traditions, highlighting similarities in the conceptualization of the soul's primacy.

The Role of Self-Knowledge in Self-Cultivation

[06:04 - 10:27] Alec Bianco & Athenian Stranger:
Alec highlights Socrates's assertion that self-knowledge is fundamental to self-cultivation. The dialogue suggests that understanding oneself is the first step towards cultivating virtue and escaping the slavery of vice.

"Alec Bianco [06:04]: Socrates, this is at 129A, right? He says, 'if we're going to cultivate ourselves, if we're going to do this, we must know ourselves to cultivate ourselves.'"

"Athenian Stranger [07:15]: Man is a soul... it's something that belongs to him. It's not an essential part of who he is."

This segment underscores the paramount importance of introspection and self-awareness in the philosophical journey.

The Teacher as Lover of the Soul

[17:52 - 23:23] Alec Bianco & Nathan:
Alec delves into the dynamic between teacher and student, emphasizing that true education transcends mere data transmission. Instead, it involves a profound relationship where the teacher genuinely loves the student's soul and seeks to cultivate its virtue.

"Alec Bianco [17:52]: ...the teacher is the lover of the soul... the teacher wants the soul to become beautiful."

"Nathan [19:52]: ...education is trying to lead kind of one's eros... into satiating in beauty in an ordered and proper way."

This perspective contrasts sharply with modern educational paradigms, advocating for an approach that nurtures the inner virtues of the individual.

Education: Virtue vs. Data Transfer

[19:52 - 29:13] Evan Amato & Alec Bianco:
Evan Amato elaborates on the dichotomy between rhetoric/sophistry and true philosophy. He argues that Socrates aims to rescue individuals like Alcibiades from living solely for bodily pleasures, promoting instead a life dedicated to the soul's virtues.

"Evan Amato [19:52]: ...sophistry... philosophy is trying to save Alcibiades from... living only as if he were body."

Alec adds that Plato's ideal education fosters relationships where individuals mutually reflect and cultivate each other's virtues, creating a communal pursuit of beauty and excellence.

"Alec Bianco [24:01]: ...the teacher loves your soul, it's also the warning that the crowd makes your soul ugly."

The Influence of the Crowd and Vice

[23:23 - 34:46] Alec Bianco & Athenian Stranger:
Alec discusses Socrates's caution against the corrupting influence of the crowd, emphasizing that mass opinions cannot impart true justice or virtue. Instead, the crowd often leads individuals away from self-knowledge and towards vice.

"Alec Bianco [23:23]: ...the crowd is never good... it couldn't teach you justice."

"Athenian Stranger [34:25]: ...this is where Socrates is trying to rescue him from... Alcibiades is in great danger, serving and living only as if he were body."

This segment highlights the tension between individual virtue and societal pressures, a recurring theme in Platonic philosophy.

The Mirror of the Soul: Eros and Relationships

[34:25 - 40:42] Alec Bianco & Athenian Stranger:
The conversation shifts to the metaphor of the soul's mirror—how love and relationships serve as reflections for self-awareness. Alec commends the dialogue for illustrating how the eyes of the beloved act as mirrors, enabling individuals to see and understand their own souls.

"Alec Bianco [34:25]: ...if the body is going to know itself, what do you do? Well, I look into a mirror... the eyes of the lover... start to see yourself."

"Athenian Stranger [34:46]: ...the intellect is the most divine part in us... the divine spark in us is the clearest mirror that we have as far as these relationships between humans go."

They draw parallels between Platonic ideas and modern relationships, emphasizing the communal aspect of philosophical pursuit and the role of love (Eros) in achieving self-knowledge and virtue.

The Philosopher-King and Political Implications

[42:21 - 46:19] Alec Bianco & Athenian Stranger:
Alec raises thought-provoking questions about the role of the enlightened statesman or philosopher-king. He ponders whether such a ruler would act as a mirror to the populace, guiding them towards self-knowledge and virtue.

"Alec Bianco [43:05]: ...the philosopher king actually can take control of the polis and then actually wants to instruct his populace in virtue."

Athenian Stranger connects these ideas to other Platonic dialogues, noting how Socrates consistently advocates for rulers who possess self-knowledge and virtue to effectively govern and cultivate the citizenry.

Transformation, Metanoia, and Divine Piety

[56:54 - 65:45] Alec Bianco & Evan Amato:
The discussion transitions to the concept of transformation or "metanoia," likening Alcibiades's potential transformation to Christian ideas of repentance and piety. Alec questions whether Plato uses the term "metanoia" directly, while Evan clarifies its philosophical counterparts in Platonic terminology.

"Alec Bianco [52:54]: ...Plato's dialogues... does he actually use metanoia?"

"Evan Amato [54:17]: ...the Greek word that Plato, Socrates uses for the turning of the soul in the Republic is always a 'perioge.'"

They explore how Socrates strives to instill divine piety in Alcibiades, urging him to recognize his limitations and submit to higher truths beyond personal ambition.

"Alec Bianco [64:44]: ...how do we weave that back into the conversation of Alcibiades lack of piety?"

"Evan Amato [65:45]: ...reminded him and tried to emphasize the role of the divine throughout."

Conclusion and Final Warnings

[66:35 - 67:03] Alec Bianco & Evan Amato:
In wrapping up, Alec reflects on the fragile nature of philosophical transformation, noting Socrates's concern that the state might suppress the burgeoning virtues within individuals like Alcibiades. He draws parallels to historical events where both Alcibiades and Socrates faced condemnation, underscoring the perennial conflict between personal virtue and political power.

"Alec Bianco [61:36]: ...the state might come in and stomp out what has actually begun to grow in you."

"Evan Amato [63:15]: ...such a perfect text to begin Plato with."

The hosts express gratitude to their guests, acknowledging the depth and richness added to their understanding of Plato's work. They encourage listeners to continue exploring the Great Books through their platform and upcoming episodes.

Notable Quotes

• "Deacon Harrison Garlick [00:00]: 'Plato is philosophy and First Alcibiades is one of the best places you could start in your studies on Plato.'"

• "Alec Bianco [07:03]: 'Man can only be one of these three things. He can either be the soul, the body, or body and soul. And he seems very much... to land very much on man as a soul.'"

• "Athenian Stranger [34:25]: '...the intellect is the most divine part in us... the divine spark in us is the clearest mirror that we have as far as these relationships between humans go.'"

• "Alec Bianco [24:01]: '...the teacher loves your soul, it's also the warning that the crowd makes your soul ugly.'"

• "Alec Bianco [56:54]: '...sin is slavery.'"

Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully navigates the complex interplay between individual virtue, self-knowledge, and societal influence as presented in Plato's "First Alcibiades." The hosts and guests provide a nuanced analysis, bridging ancient philosophy with contemporary spiritual and educational paradigms. Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the enduring relevance of Platonic ideas in understanding the human soul and the pursuit of a virtuous life.

For those interested in further exploration, Ascend offers comprehensive guides and a supportive community to engage with the Great Books. Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for more resources and to join their philosophical journey.