Ascend - The Great Books Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Madness and Piety: A Discussion on The Bacchae Part II
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Frank Grabowski
Release Date: June 24, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Ascend - The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Frank Grabowski delve into the second part of Euripides' The Bacchae. This Greek tragedy offers a profound exploration of themes such as divine madness, piety, justice, and the destabilizing effects of the Dionysian cult on familial and political structures.

Overview of The Bacchae Part II

The Bacchae, one of Euripides' most intense tragedies, narrates the catastrophic downfall of King Pentheus of Thebes at the hands of the Bacchae—followers of Dionysus. Part II intensifies the drama, showcasing Pentheus's refusal to acknowledge Dionysus's divinity and the ensuing chaos that unfolds within Thebes.

Key Themes Discussed

1. Dionysian Erotics and Madness

Deacon Harrison Garlick expresses his fascination with the visceral intensity of the play, particularly the portrayal of Dionysian madness:

Deacon Harrison Garlick [00:00]: "We plunge into the second part of Euripides, the Bacchae, a harrowing yet gripping Greek tragedy that leads us deeper into the mystery of Dionysian erotics."

Dr. Frank Grabowski connects this madness to Aristotle's concept of akrasia (weakness of will) and the beastial state, highlighting the complete collapse of reason in the characters afflicted by Dionysus's influence.

Dr. Frank Grabowski [06:15]: "The scene that Euripides describes here is utterly horrifying because you have a mixture of human and animal relations... a complete collapse of political society."

2. Piety and Justice

The conversation navigates the complex relationship between piety (honoring the gods) and justice (maintaining societal order). The hosts discuss how Pentheus's impiety leads to his gruesome punishment, raising questions about divine justice.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [23:20]: "Pentheus is punished for not following the divine order, but Euripides presents Dionysus as a cruel, anti-logos God, complicating the notion of justice."

3. Familial and Political Instability

The Dionysian cult's intrusion into Thebes disrupts both family structures and political stability. The dismemberment of Pentheus by his mother, Agave, symbolizes the ultimate betrayal of familial bonds under divine madness.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [70:39]: "The zenith of Dionysian perversion is seen in the mother-child relationship, with Agave murdering her own son."

4. Blurring of Gender Roles

Both hosts highlight how the Bacchae adopt traditionally masculine traits of violence, challenging established gender norms and contributing to societal chaos.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [09:01]: "The Dionysian cult brings with it a blurring of genders, as women take on violent, masculine roles, destabilizing societal norms."

5. Character Analysis: Pentheus, Agave, and Cadmus

Pentheus is portrayed as a complex character—initially recalcitrant and rational, yet ultimately succumbing to divine madness. Agave represents the tragic victim of this madness, torn between filial love and obsessive devotion to Dionysus. Cadmus, Pentheus's grandfather, embodies the struggle to maintain order amidst chaos, facing his own punishment for blasphemy.

Dr. Frank Grabowski [35:07]: "Pentheus exhibits weakness of will by succumbing to Dionysus's temptations, highlighting his lack of virtuous character."

6. The Nature of the Gods and Theodicy

A significant portion of the discussion addresses the portrayal of gods in The Bacchae—particularly Dionysus—as malevolent and chaotic, challenging traditional notions of divine benevolence. This raises enduring questions about the nature of divinity and the justification of suffering inflicted by gods.

Deacon Harrison Garlick [95:23]: "Cadmus critiques the gods, asserting that divine beings should be exempt from human passions— a stance that Euripides uses to question the traditional pantheon."

7. Philosophical Perspectives: Aristotle and Platonic Thought

The hosts intertwine philosophical insights from Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics and anticipate connections to Plato's dialogues, particularly Symposium and Euthyphro. They explore how The Bacchae serves as a precursor to these later philosophical analyses of love, reason, and piety.

Dr. Frank Grabowski [37:53]: "Euripides and Plato engage in a dialogue through their works, examining the relationship between piety, reason, and the soul."

Notable Quotes

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [00:00]: "The Bacchae... leaves me pondering how the Dionysian cult is antagonistic to the familial and political flourishing."

• Dr. Frank Grabowski [06:15]: "This is a complete collapse of political society, of Apollos... becoming much clearer even later."

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [11:37]: "The Dionysian cult... brings a certain collapse of the family and... a collapse of the polis as well."

• Dr. Frank Grabowski [28:58]: "Miracles... offer us some evidence that there's some divine activity happening."

• Deacon Harrison Garlick [35:37]: "Virtue for Machiavelli becomes the capacity to gain and maintain power... similar shifts are occurring here."

Conclusions and Insights

The discussion unpacks The Bacchae as a profound commentary on the destructive potential of unchecked divine influence and the fragility of societal structures. The portrayal of Dionysus challenges traditional views of the divine, presenting a god whose methods are both seductive and devastating. Pentheus's tragic flaw—his inability to balance courage with temperance—serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of extreme rationalism detached from piety.

Furthermore, the episode highlights how Euripides sets the stage for philosophical inquiries by later thinkers like Plato, who continue to explore the complexities of piety, reason, and the nature of the divine.

Final Thoughts

Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Frank Grabowski adeptly navigate the rich and troubling landscape of The Bacchae, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of its themes and their relevance to both ancient and modern contexts. Their analysis underscores the enduring significance of the Great Books in fostering critical reflection on human nature, society, and the divine.

Upcoming Episodes:

• Aristophanes' The Clouds
• Aristophanes' The Frogs
• Plato's First Alcibiades (Introduction to Plato)

Join Ascend weekly as hosts continue their journey through the Great Books, offering insightful discussions that engage both first-time readers and seasoned scholars.

For additional resources, including the free 115 Question & Answer Guide to the Iliad, visit thegreatbookspodcast.com.