Ascend - The Great Books Podcast: Episode Summary
Episode Title: Plato 101: An Introduction with Friends
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan
Guests: Dr. Frank Grabowski, Mr. Thomas Lackey, and Dr. Brett Larson
Introduction to Plato and the Great Books
In the inaugural episode of their comprehensive study on Plato, hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan warmly welcome listeners to "Ascend," positioning the podcast as a nurturing space for both seasoned scholars and first-time readers of the Great Books. The episode features a roundtable discussion with esteemed guests—lawyer and classical enthusiast Dr. Frank Grabowski, independent scholar Mr. Thomas Lackey, and political science assistant professor Dr. Brett Larson—who delve into foundational questions: Who is Plato? Why should we read him? Why should Christians read him in particular? And how should we approach his works?
Understanding the Great Books
Dr. Frank Grabowski opens the conversation by emphasizing that the Great Books are deeply rooted in their historical contexts yet address "timeless concerns" that resonate today (08:21). He remarks, “These are texts that address the concerns of today as much as they did when they were written,” highlighting the enduring relevance of these works.
Mr. Thomas Lackey adds that reading the Great Books is akin to entering a "great conversation" where each author builds upon or challenges their predecessors. He states, “There's a very real sense in which they're building blocks all one upon the other.”
Deacon Harrison Garlick underscores the podcast's mission to guide listeners through the Great Books in a "slow, attentive manner," fostering a space where first-time readers can engage deeply without feeling overwhelmed.
Who is Plato?
The discussion transitions to Plato, exploring his life and contributions. Dr. Brett Larson provides a concise biography, noting Plato's establishment of the Academy in Athens around 387 BC and his extensive influence on political philosophy. He shares, “Plato has definitely been highly influential in my way of thinking.”
Deacon Garlick draws parallels between Plato and Socrates, emphasizing their shared commitment to wisdom and their ultimate sacrifices for their beliefs. He remarks, “There are really strong parallels between the two that really has captured the imagination of say, Christianity, the early church fathers, etc.”
Why Should We Read Plato?
The guests collectively argue that Plato's works compel readers to "reclaim their intellect" and engage with foundational philosophical questions. Dr. Brett Larson points out that Plato forces readers to confront essential queries such as, “What is justice? What is the good life?” He adds, “Plato gave us very thoughtful, reasoned answers to these questions.”
Mr. Thomas Lackey emphasizes the transformative power of Plato’s dialogues, suggesting that they foster a "sense of wonder" and encourage deeper reflection on personal beliefs and societal norms.
Deacon Garlick reflects on his personal journey, noting how Plato challenged and refined his own ideas, illustrating the profound impact of engaging with Platonic philosophy.
Why Should Christians Read Plato?
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring the intersection between Platonic thought and Christian theology. Dr. Frank Grabowski shares his personal testimony, stating, “Plato had a huge impact on my reversion back to the Catholic faith,” particularly through his exploration of objective morality and the immortality of the soul.
Mr. Thomas Lackey discusses the concept that “grace builds on nature,” suggesting that Plato’s emphasis on natural virtue complements Christian teachings. He notes, “They come to know and love God as a creature loves its Creator in a natural mode.”
Deacon Garlick further elaborates on how Platonic philosophy laid the groundwork for early Christian thought, asserting that, “Plato is philosophy and he is the philosopher for much of Christianity.”
How Should We Read Plato?
The conversation shifts to methodology, exploring effective ways to engage with Plato’s dialogues.
Dr. Frank Grabowski advises against a purely didactic approach, advocating instead for a dialogue-sensitive reading that considers the historical and dramatic context of each work. He recommends Deborah Nails' The People of Plato as an invaluable resource for understanding the characters and settings within the dialogues.
Deacon Garlick echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of appreciating the drama and character interactions to uncover deeper philosophical insights. He likens this to reading scripture, where attention to detail and layered meanings enrich understanding.
Mr. Thomas Lackey adds that engaging with Plato requires active participation, encouraging readers to “locate themselves within the conversations” and to embrace the protreptic (inspirational) nature of the dialogues. He remarks, “Plato wants us to be Socratic and to question the very ideas that are being presented.”
Dr. Brett Larson advises readers to approach Plato with an open mind, ready to challenge and potentially rethink their own assumptions. He notes, “He’s going to force you to rethink a lot of what you probably end up believing right now.”
Reading Schedule and Upcoming Episodes
Deacon Garlick outlines the podcast’s reading schedule, promising a thorough exploration of Plato’s key dialogues over the coming months:
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First Alcibiades
- Episodes 1-4: Historical context, key themes, and implications for personal growth.
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Euthyphro
- Episodes 5-7: Examination of the famous Euthyphro Dilemma and its theological implications.
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Apology
- Episodes 8-9: Socrates' defense and the enduring legacy of his trial.
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Crito and Phaedo
- Episodes 10-13: Discussions on justice, laws, and the immortality of the soul.
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Meno and Gorgias
- Episodes 14-24: Exploring virtue, rhetoric, and ethical philosophy.
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Historical Impact
- Episodes 25-27: Plato’s influence on St. Augustine, Boethius, and Aquinas.
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Transition to Dante
- Episode on Flannery O'Connor's "The Lame Shall Enter" as a palate cleanser before delving into Dante’s Purgatorio during Lent.
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The Republic
- Episodes 28-37: A deep dive into The Republic over ten months, exploring themes of justice, the ideal state, and the philosopher-king.
Deacon emphasizes the importance of starting with the Hackett Edition's "Plato: Complete Works" edited by John Cooper for accessible and comprehensive translations. He mentions a shift to the Alan Bloom translation for The Republic, highlighting its literary beauty and philosophical depth.
Final Thoughts and Encouragement
As the episode concludes, the guests offer heartfelt reflections on the personal and intellectual enrichment derived from studying Plato.
Mr. Thomas Lackey shares, “Reading the Great Books is to enter into this entire stream of conversation that's been going on for thousands and thousands of years,” encouraging listeners to embrace the transformative journey ahead.
Dr. Frank Grabowski invites listeners to immerse themselves fully, stating, “The philosophy begins on line one all the time in all the dialogues.”
Deacon Garlick wraps up by expressing gratitude to his guests and reiterating the podcast’s commitment to fostering a "beautiful journey into Plato," encouraging listeners to engage deeply with the texts and utilize available resources such as podcasts, videos, and written guides.
Notable Quotes
- Dr. Frank Grabowski [08:21]: “These are texts that address the concerns of today as much as they did when they were written.”
- Mr. Thomas Lackey [10:17]: “There's a very real sense in which they're building blocks all one upon the other.”
- Deacon Harrison Garlick [11:39]: “We have to reclaim our intellectual... enter this great conversation.”
- Dr. Brett Larson [31:49]: “Plato gave us very thoughtful, reasoned answers to these questions.”
Conclusion
This episode serves as a foundational primer for listeners embarking on their Platonic journey with "Ascend - The Great Books Podcast." By intertwining historical context, philosophical discourse, and personal testimonies, Deacon Garlick and his guests create an inviting and intellectually stimulating environment. Whether you’re a newcomer to Plato or revisiting his works, this episode promises to deepen your understanding and appreciation of one of Western philosophy’s cornerstone figures.
For more information and to access additional resources, visit thegreatbookspodcast.com and follow Ascend on X, YouTube, Facebook, and Patreon.