Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Fitt 1 with Dr. Justin Jackson

Release Date: December 16, 2025
Host(s): Deacon Harrison Garlick, Adam Minihan
Guests: Dr. Justin Jackson (Hillsdale College), Banished Kent, George (Chivalry Guild)

Overview

In this lively and insightful episode of Ascend, the hosts delve into Fitt 1 of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, exploring its deep literary, cultural, and spiritual layers. With Dr. Justin Jackson, a leading medievalist and professor, and guests Banished Kent and George from Chivalry Guild, the discussion navigates the poem’s historical context, linguistic beauty, Christian symbolism, and its tension between chivalric and Christian values. The conversation sets the stage for first-time and returning readers to appreciate the poem as a Christmas meditation and a masterwork of the English literary tradition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Poem’s Origins and Manuscript History

[03:22–09:49]

Dr. Jackson places the poem’s composition in the late 1370s, during the reign of Richard II, a period of political turmoil in England.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight survives in only one manuscript (Cotton Nero A.x), alongside Pearl, Cleanness, and Patience.
The poet was highly educated, likely with clerical training, and uniquely skilled in both theological knowledge and courtly literature.
Part of the "alliterative revival", the poem utilizes the older English poetic form, focusing on alliteration and half-lines rather than rhyme—though incorporating a "bob and wheel" structure with rhymed lines at the end of stanzas (see: [25:15–27:30]).
The manuscript’s survival is almost miraculous, given the 1731 Ashburnham House fire which threatened many texts of the age.

“It's astounding to me to think of the man who could give us...the greatest dream vision poem in Pearl can also give us the greatest chivalric romance in the English language.”
— Dr. Jackson [06:42]

2. Gawain’s Place in the Arthurian Tradition & Chivalry

[12:28–15:59]

Gawain was the principal knight in the English (not French) tradition, featured in at least eleven medieval English romances.
Unlike Mallory’s later Le Morte d’Arthur, with its emphasis on Lancelot, the Gawain-poet sources from older English, French, and Irish traditions.
The poem operates multidimensionally: it’s “jocular, disturbing, fun, and works on so many levels.” (George, [12:21])

3. Language: Old English, Middle English, and Poetic Structure

[17:05–27:47]

Dr. Jackson reads from Beowulf (Old English), Canterbury Tales (Chaucer’s Middle English), and Sir Gawain's opening, demonstrating their linguistic evolution and the poem’s distinct “clanging” alliterative style.
The “bob and wheel” at each stanza’s end is explained: a rhyming unit that often serves as a summary, transition, or moral comment.

“This is a master poet...to be able to alliterate and rhyme and keep those stresses in place. You have an ear that’s beyond belief.”
— Dr. Jackson [27:30]

4. Troy, Aeneas, and Historical Framing

[30:04–41:59]

The poem begins with the fall of Troy, tracing a legendary lineage from Aeneas to Britain’s founding—a common medieval trope linking classical and Christian heritage.
Dr. Jackson shatters assumptions by emphasizing that, in medieval tradition, Aeneas—not Antenor—was seen as the traitor who caused Troy’s fall.
The tension between “bliss and blunder” in Britain’s (and Gawain’s) origins is central—history swings between glory and calamity.

“You can have Aeneas, the greatest...who also betrays, who is the great grandfather of the founder of England. I think that’s where this poem is going. I think the poem...becomes a cautionary tale...”
— Dr. Jackson [35:38]

5. Liturgical and Seasonal Framing: The Christmas Setting

[44:36–51:15]

The poem is deeply rooted in the Nativity cycle. Fitt 1 unfolds during Christmastide (feast), but later sections return to Advent/Lent (fast).
Dr. Jackson clarifies the medieval reality of the St. Martin’s Fast (a forty-day fast leading up to Christmas), and how feasting and fasting shape the story’s mood and meaning.

“If you don’t know anything about fasting...you don’t realize how important, joyful a feast is...”
— Dr. Jackson [45:26]

6. Medieval Women: Guinevere and the Power of the Margins

[53:29–56:09]

Guinevere is described as having “gray eyes,” a trait signaling wisdom and clarity in medieval literature (also used positively in the poem Pearl).
Dr. Jackson hints that “women loom large in the margins” of the poem, being narratively central in subtle, powerful ways.

7. Chivalry, Courtliness, and Competing Moral Frameworks

[56:52–77:34]

Tension between chivalric/courtly and Christian ethics is a central concern.
Tolkien’s interpretation is discussed: the poem examines what happens when competing value systems (courtly vs. Christian) collide.
Arthur is portrayed as “boyish,” spirited, and somewhat childish—his ritual of not eating until a marvel occurs is both admirable and flawed.
The “pentangle” (to be detailed in Fitt 2) symbolizes the attempted harmony between courtly and Christian ideals.

“What we’re given in this poem, I think, is really a darn near impossibility of how to live as a Christian knight...you have a step, but then you have crocodiles; you have another step and you have king cobras.”
— Dr. Jackson [73:28]

8. The Green Knight’s Entrance & the Beheading Game

[78:14–104:09]

The Green Knight’s arrival is read as a scene of double meaning (knight vs. supernatural “fey” being), and the guests’ reactions are telling.
Arthur addresses him as “Sir,” showing franchise and courtesy; the other knights respond with fear.
The famous beheading game: Dr. Jackson insists the Green Knight never explicitly proposes a beheading—just a “blow for a blow” with a weapon of choice, leaving room for mercy or violence.
Arthur (and Gawain by extension) participates in an ethically ambiguous act: lured into an excessive or imprudent response, possibly failing both the Christian and chivalric ideals.
Gawain’s choice is framed as a true dilemma—almost no “right” path, underscoring how the poem tests the reader’s (and the hero’s) moral reasoning.

“Would you rather die with pite, franchise, a chivalric order and a Christian ethos, and put the burden on the other individual? Or do you want a preemptive killing that violates those things?”
— Dr. Jackson [94:24]

“Here’s a long meditation...”
— Dr. Jackson [95:35]

9. Moral Appearance vs. Reality: Camelot’s Outside and Inside

[104:09–108:22]

After the supernatural marvel, Arthur and Gawain "laugh and smile"—but Arthur, at heart, “marvelled,” masking unease with outward courtliness.
The closing stanzas emphasize the poem’s pervasive theme: a test between outer appearances and inner realities, both for individuals and for courtly society at large.

“On the surface, Camelot and Arthur’s knights, they seem like they are the best of the best...The question that he wants to get at is, does that go beyond skin deep as well?...”
— Banished Kent [107:49]

10. Final Thoughts and What to Look For

[107:29–end]

Watch for the poem’s repeated “moral double vision”—characters, deeds, even the language itself, often suggest two contrary readings or temptations.
Dr. Jackson closes by encouraging readers to scrutinize Gawain’s self-judgment at the end of the poem and how it reframes Fitt 1.

“Pay attention to what Gawain has to say about himself with a revelation, and then ask yourself, how does that comport with FIT one?...”
— Dr. Jackson [110:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Poem’s Uniqueness and Fragility

“It’s astounding to think that we only had one [manuscript]... It looms so large in my academic life for so long. And then you get there and you go, oh, it’s beautiful, but very small.”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [05:40]

On Chivalric Temptations and Double Readings

“They play stupid games, really stupid games...It becomes a question of, is he just being polite? Does he mean it? Is he really sucked into this courtly game?”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [56:52]

On the Impossible Dilemma of Christian Chivalry

“That’s what this poem becomes really a meditation on: what is pride? What does fidelity look like? ...How can virtue and vice be found in one person? The greatest virtue and the greatest vice?”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [36:26]

On Literary Tension

“As you talk...there’s a temptation of how then are you going to read this character? But holding them in tension...is also where the pedagogy is.”
— Deacon Harrison Garlick [70:58]

On the End of Fitt 1

“I take that laughing and grinning in two very different ways. I take Gawain’s as, ‘Oh, God, no.’ Arthur’s is probably something along the lines of when you laugh and grin because you’re embarrassed, you’re trying to cover things.”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [105:20]

Timestamps for Important Segments

History of the Poem & Manuscript: [03:22–09:49]
Gawain in English vs. French Tradition: [12:28–15:59]
Alliterative Verse – Language Readings: [17:05–27:47]
The Framing Myth of Troy & Aeneas: [30:04–41:59]
Christmas, Feasting, and Fasting as Literary Structure: [44:36–51:15]
Guinevere’s Role & Medieval Views of Women: [53:29–56:09]
Courtly vs. Christian Ethics (Arthur & Pentangle): [56:52–77:34]
Green Knight’s Arrival and the Beheading Game: [78:14–104:09]
Arthur & Court’s Reaction, Appearance vs. Reality: [104:09–108:22]
Final Reflections & Guidance for Next Fits: [107:29–111:08]

Summary Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is rich, generous, and inquisitive, balancing deep scholarship with enthusiasm for introducing new readers to the text. The hosts and guests encourage multiple readings, humility before ambiguity, and attention to the tension between outer ritual/courtliness and inner virtue—making Sir Gawain and the Green Knight a perennial Christmas treasure for the serious reader.

Next episode: Fits 2 and 3, with Tiffany Schubert of Wyoming Catholic College. For reading guides, resources, and the listener Q&A, visit thegreatbookspodcast.com.

Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Fitt 1 with Dr. Justin Jackson

Release Date: December 16, 2025
Host(s): Deacon Harrison Garlick, Adam Minihan
Guests: Dr. Justin Jackson (Hillsdale College), Banished Kent, George (Chivalry Guild)

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Poem’s Origins and Manuscript History

[03:22–09:49]

Dr. Jackson places the poem’s composition in the late 1370s, during the reign of Richard II, a period of political turmoil in England.
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight survives in only one manuscript (Cotton Nero A.x), alongside Pearl, Cleanness, and Patience.
The poet was highly educated, likely with clerical training, and uniquely skilled in both theological knowledge and courtly literature.
Part of the "alliterative revival", the poem utilizes the older English poetic form, focusing on alliteration and half-lines rather than rhyme—though incorporating a "bob and wheel" structure with rhymed lines at the end of stanzas (see: [25:15–27:30]).
The manuscript’s survival is almost miraculous, given the 1731 Ashburnham House fire which threatened many texts of the age.

“It's astounding to me to think of the man who could give us...the greatest dream vision poem in Pearl can also give us the greatest chivalric romance in the English language.”
— Dr. Jackson [06:42]

2. Gawain’s Place in the Arthurian Tradition & Chivalry

[12:28–15:59]

Gawain was the principal knight in the English (not French) tradition, featured in at least eleven medieval English romances.
Unlike Mallory’s later Le Morte d’Arthur, with its emphasis on Lancelot, the Gawain-poet sources from older English, French, and Irish traditions.
The poem operates multidimensionally: it’s “jocular, disturbing, fun, and works on so many levels.” (George, [12:21])

3. Language: Old English, Middle English, and Poetic Structure

[17:05–27:47]

Dr. Jackson reads from Beowulf (Old English), Canterbury Tales (Chaucer’s Middle English), and Sir Gawain's opening, demonstrating their linguistic evolution and the poem’s distinct “clanging” alliterative style.
The “bob and wheel” at each stanza’s end is explained: a rhyming unit that often serves as a summary, transition, or moral comment.

“This is a master poet...to be able to alliterate and rhyme and keep those stresses in place. You have an ear that’s beyond belief.”
— Dr. Jackson [27:30]

4. Troy, Aeneas, and Historical Framing

[30:04–41:59]

The poem begins with the fall of Troy, tracing a legendary lineage from Aeneas to Britain’s founding—a common medieval trope linking classical and Christian heritage.
Dr. Jackson shatters assumptions by emphasizing that, in medieval tradition, Aeneas—not Antenor—was seen as the traitor who caused Troy’s fall.
The tension between “bliss and blunder” in Britain’s (and Gawain’s) origins is central—history swings between glory and calamity.

“You can have Aeneas, the greatest...who also betrays, who is the great grandfather of the founder of England. I think that’s where this poem is going. I think the poem...becomes a cautionary tale...”
— Dr. Jackson [35:38]

5. Liturgical and Seasonal Framing: The Christmas Setting

[44:36–51:15]

The poem is deeply rooted in the Nativity cycle. Fitt 1 unfolds during Christmastide (feast), but later sections return to Advent/Lent (fast).
Dr. Jackson clarifies the medieval reality of the St. Martin’s Fast (a forty-day fast leading up to Christmas), and how feasting and fasting shape the story’s mood and meaning.

“If you don’t know anything about fasting...you don’t realize how important, joyful a feast is...”
— Dr. Jackson [45:26]

6. Medieval Women: Guinevere and the Power of the Margins

[53:29–56:09]

Guinevere is described as having “gray eyes,” a trait signaling wisdom and clarity in medieval literature (also used positively in the poem Pearl).
Dr. Jackson hints that “women loom large in the margins” of the poem, being narratively central in subtle, powerful ways.

7. Chivalry, Courtliness, and Competing Moral Frameworks

[56:52–77:34]

Tension between chivalric/courtly and Christian ethics is a central concern.
Tolkien’s interpretation is discussed: the poem examines what happens when competing value systems (courtly vs. Christian) collide.
Arthur is portrayed as “boyish,” spirited, and somewhat childish—his ritual of not eating until a marvel occurs is both admirable and flawed.
The “pentangle” (to be detailed in Fitt 2) symbolizes the attempted harmony between courtly and Christian ideals.

“What we’re given in this poem, I think, is really a darn near impossibility of how to live as a Christian knight...you have a step, but then you have crocodiles; you have another step and you have king cobras.”
— Dr. Jackson [73:28]

8. The Green Knight’s Entrance & the Beheading Game

[78:14–104:09]

The Green Knight’s arrival is read as a scene of double meaning (knight vs. supernatural “fey” being), and the guests’ reactions are telling.
Arthur addresses him as “Sir,” showing franchise and courtesy; the other knights respond with fear.
The famous beheading game: Dr. Jackson insists the Green Knight never explicitly proposes a beheading—just a “blow for a blow” with a weapon of choice, leaving room for mercy or violence.
Arthur (and Gawain by extension) participates in an ethically ambiguous act: lured into an excessive or imprudent response, possibly failing both the Christian and chivalric ideals.
Gawain’s choice is framed as a true dilemma—almost no “right” path, underscoring how the poem tests the reader’s (and the hero’s) moral reasoning.

“Would you rather die with pite, franchise, a chivalric order and a Christian ethos, and put the burden on the other individual? Or do you want a preemptive killing that violates those things?”
— Dr. Jackson [94:24]

“Here’s a long meditation...”
— Dr. Jackson [95:35]

9. Moral Appearance vs. Reality: Camelot’s Outside and Inside

[104:09–108:22]

After the supernatural marvel, Arthur and Gawain "laugh and smile"—but Arthur, at heart, “marvelled,” masking unease with outward courtliness.
The closing stanzas emphasize the poem’s pervasive theme: a test between outer appearances and inner realities, both for individuals and for courtly society at large.

“On the surface, Camelot and Arthur’s knights, they seem like they are the best of the best...The question that he wants to get at is, does that go beyond skin deep as well?...”
— Banished Kent [107:49]

10. Final Thoughts and What to Look For

[107:29–end]

Watch for the poem’s repeated “moral double vision”—characters, deeds, even the language itself, often suggest two contrary readings or temptations.
Dr. Jackson closes by encouraging readers to scrutinize Gawain’s self-judgment at the end of the poem and how it reframes Fitt 1.

“Pay attention to what Gawain has to say about himself with a revelation, and then ask yourself, how does that comport with FIT one?...”
— Dr. Jackson [110:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Poem’s Uniqueness and Fragility

“It’s astounding to think that we only had one [manuscript]... It looms so large in my academic life for so long. And then you get there and you go, oh, it’s beautiful, but very small.”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [05:40]

On Chivalric Temptations and Double Readings

“They play stupid games, really stupid games...It becomes a question of, is he just being polite? Does he mean it? Is he really sucked into this courtly game?”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [56:52]

On the Impossible Dilemma of Christian Chivalry

“That’s what this poem becomes really a meditation on: what is pride? What does fidelity look like? ...How can virtue and vice be found in one person? The greatest virtue and the greatest vice?”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [36:26]

On Literary Tension

“As you talk...there’s a temptation of how then are you going to read this character? But holding them in tension...is also where the pedagogy is.”
— Deacon Harrison Garlick [70:58]

On the End of Fitt 1

“I take that laughing and grinning in two very different ways. I take Gawain’s as, ‘Oh, God, no.’ Arthur’s is probably something along the lines of when you laugh and grin because you’re embarrassed, you’re trying to cover things.”
— Dr. Justin Jackson [105:20]

Timestamps for Important Segments

History of the Poem & Manuscript: [03:22–09:49]
Gawain in English vs. French Tradition: [12:28–15:59]
Alliterative Verse – Language Readings: [17:05–27:47]
The Framing Myth of Troy & Aeneas: [30:04–41:59]
Christmas, Feasting, and Fasting as Literary Structure: [44:36–51:15]
Guinevere’s Role & Medieval Views of Women: [53:29–56:09]
Courtly vs. Christian Ethics (Arthur & Pentangle): [56:52–77:34]
Green Knight’s Arrival and the Beheading Game: [78:14–104:09]
Arthur & Court’s Reaction, Appearance vs. Reality: [104:09–108:22]
Final Reflections & Guidance for Next Fits: [107:29–111:08]

Summary Tone & Takeaways

Next episode: Fits 2 and 3, with Tiffany Schubert of Wyoming Catholic College. For reading guides, resources, and the listener Q&A, visit thegreatbookspodcast.com.

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Fitt 1 with Dr. Justin Jackson

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Summary

Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Fitt 1 with Dr. Justin Jackson

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Poem’s Origins and Manuscript History

2. Gawain’s Place in the Arthurian Tradition & Chivalry

3. Language: Old English, Middle English, and Poetic Structure

4. Troy, Aeneas, and Historical Framing

5. Liturgical and Seasonal Framing: The Christmas Setting

6. Medieval Women: Guinevere and the Power of the Margins

7. Chivalry, Courtliness, and Competing Moral Frameworks

8. The Green Knight’s Entrance & the Beheading Game

9. Moral Appearance vs. Reality: Camelot’s Outside and Inside

10. Final Thoughts and What to Look For

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Poem’s Uniqueness and Fragility

On Chivalric Temptations and Double Readings

On the Impossible Dilemma of Christian Chivalry

On Literary Tension

On the End of Fitt 1

Timestamps for Important Segments

Further Reading & Resources

Summary Tone & Takeaways

Summary

Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight Fitt 1 with Dr. Justin Jackson

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Poem’s Origins and Manuscript History

2. Gawain’s Place in the Arthurian Tradition & Chivalry

3. Language: Old English, Middle English, and Poetic Structure

4. Troy, Aeneas, and Historical Framing

5. Liturgical and Seasonal Framing: The Christmas Setting

6. Medieval Women: Guinevere and the Power of the Margins

7. Chivalry, Courtliness, and Competing Moral Frameworks

8. The Green Knight’s Entrance & the Beheading Game

9. Moral Appearance vs. Reality: Camelot’s Outside and Inside

10. Final Thoughts and What to Look For

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Poem’s Uniqueness and Fragility

On Chivalric Temptations and Double Readings

On the Impossible Dilemma of Christian Chivalry

On Literary Tension

On the End of Fitt 1

Timestamps for Important Segments

Further Reading & Resources

Summary Tone & Takeaways