Ascend – The Great Books Podcast
Episode: Teaching Plato's First Alcibiades with Dr. Daniel Shields
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick & Adam Minihan
Guest: Dr. Daniel Shields (Wyoming Catholic College)
Date: August 19, 2025
Overview of the Episode
This episode explores the educational power and philosophical richness of Plato’s First Alcibiades, as taught to freshmen at Wyoming Catholic College. Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan welcome Dr. Daniel Shields to discuss how this dialogue serves as an introduction not only to Platonic thought but to the very project of philosophy as a way of life. The conversation ranges from the unique pedagogical approach at Wyoming Catholic, to Platonic themes of self-knowledge, politics, virtue, and the relationship between student and teacher.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Educational Context of First Alcibiades
- Wyoming Catholic’s Approach: All freshmen read First Alcibiades as an entryway into philosophy before tackling Aristotelian logic and later philosophical texts.
- Quote: “They need to get a sense of why they should do this by reading some Platonic dialogues...something that has some content and drama that can make them fall in love with philosophy.” (Dr. Shields, 05:04)
- The dialogue offers a balance of accessibility and depth, making it ideal for those new to philosophical study.
- The tradition of starting with First Alcibiades stems from its status as the entry point for students of Platonism in antiquity.
2. Relatability of Alcibiades to Freshmen
- Alcibiades represents the ambitious, impatient young adult—fitting for college freshmen eager to engage the world but in need of formation.
- Quote: “Talented young adults are often full of ambition...It’s very difficult for a young adult to say, oh, I’m going to put my life on pause for four years and just study and learn things.” (Dr. Shields, 13:05)
- Connecting Alcibiades’ journey with the real-life experience of students being asked to pause and form themselves through liberal education.
3. Philosophy and the Political Life
- The episode explores why Platonic dialogues so frequently entwine philosophy with politics.
- Quote: “In order to philosophize well, one has to set aside some time from the practical life to contemplate...but the political life was in a democracy like ancient Athens was everyone’s life, or at least every free man’s life.” (Dr. Shields, 15:27)
- Socrates pulls Alcibiades away from political ambition to first order his soul through philosophical reflection—a preparation, not a retreat.
4. Socratic Pedagogy: Meeting the Student Where They Are
- Socrates masterfully leverages Alcibiades’s competitive “thumotic” nature—his desire for honor and victory—to guide him toward self-knowledge and philosophical inquiry.
- Quote: “Socrates kind of puts on this masterclass of being able to step into the love of the student and understand what it is that they love and use that as a lure to come back.” (Harrison Garlick, 33:07)
- Quote: “You have to have our eyes out for what’s going on in the soul of the student. And that's a difficult thing.” (Dr. Shields, 35:20)
5. Knowing Oneself: The Starting Point of Philosophy
- A major takeaway is the necessity for students (and all humans) to recognize their own ignorance as the basis for learning.
- Quote: “They should come to be aware of the need to recognize their own ignorance and own up to it. And that doing so is not a bad thing...If they can realize that they are ignorant and need to learn things, and that feeling like they know is going to impede their ability to learn in any of the classes...” (Dr. Shields, 25:21)
- The dialogue uses humor and humility to drive this point home, with Socrates gently but firmly deconstructing Alcibiades’s pride.
6. The Mirror and the Communal Nature of Philosophy
- Plato’s analogy of the soul seeking to know itself as the eye knows itself in another’s gaze brings out the fundamentally relational dynamic of philosophical inquiry and self-knowledge.
- Quote: “We need a mirror for the soul...and we start to see ourselves and get to know ourselves through the eyes of another.” (Garlick, 39:42)
- Quote: “The philosophical life can’t be lived well in isolation. And that’s kind of a challenge because it’s easy for those who are living an academic life to kind of isolate themselves...But yeah, we need relationships with other people so we can see ourselves in the mirror and be a mirror to other people.” (Dr. Shields, 44:27)
- This communal aspect stands in stark contrast to modern, atomized philosophies of self.
7. The Divine Yearning and Alignment with Christian Anthropology
- The Platonic call to “know thyself” prepares the way not only for philosophical but for Christian understanding: knowing both human deficiency and transcendent aspiration.
- Quote: “We have to know two things. We have to know our brokenness and our need and the kind of sorry state that we’re in. But we also have to know the greatness that we were made for...our hearts are restless until they rest in you [Augustine].” (Dr. Shields, 51:43)
- Plato and Christianity both envision self-knowledge as the prelude to becoming receptive to what is higher.
8. Lessons for Teachers and Students
- The dialogue offers enduring pedagogical lessons: students must be brought to acknowledge their ignorance and desire for wisdom, while teachers must be attuned to the loves and aspirations of those they guide.
- Alcibiades’s spiritedness, rightly directed, becomes the energy for true philosophical ascent.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On introducing philosophy to freshmen:
“Alcibiades is relatable in that talented young adults are often full of ambition...he’s right on the cusp of manhood...impatient to accomplish, and Socrates is trying to say, wait, hold on, you need to learn a bunch of things and form yourself before you do.”
—Dr. Shields (13:05) -
On Socratic humility and student pride:
“It’s not the people who know who end up failures, nor is it ... the people who don’t know. It’s the people who don’t know and think they know and thus charge ahead and make blunders.”
—Dr. Shields (25:21) -
On the communal nature of philosophical and personal development:
“The philosophical life can’t be lived well in isolation...we need relationships with other people so we can see ourselves in the mirror and be a mirror to other people.”
—Dr. Shields (44:27) -
On education as ascent, not retreat:
“It’s not a retreat. It’s not come be a Benedictine monk, it’s not leave society. But it seems like philosophy...is actually preparing to send Alcibiades back into politics. But as a politician who loves wisdom...Alcibiades is a potential philosopher-king.”
—Garlick (18:16) -
On the need for self-knowledge:
“You can’t take care of yourself unless you know who you are. You can’t know what belongs to you, what doesn’t belong to you, if you don’t know who you are.”
—Dr. Shields (46:30)
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 00:00–06:38 — Introduction to Dr. Shields and WCC; why freshmen read First Alcibiades
- 10:50–14:59 — Alcibiades as a case study in youthful ambition
- 15:27–18:16 — Interplay between philosophy and political life
- 19:38–23:07 — Responding to Socratic “daemon” and the dialogue’s religious undertones
- 23:18–29:57 — Humbling Alcibiades: the drama of pride and ignorance
- 30:55–35:20 — Socrates’s method: leveraging the student’s loves
- 39:42–44:27 — Mirror analogy and the need for relationship in self-knowledge
- 46:30–51:43 — The necessity and scope of self-knowledge; correspondence with Christian anthropology
- 53:37–55:12 — The potential for greatness and the call to ascend
- 57:36–End — Final thoughts and teaching resources
Closing Reflections
Dr. Shields emphasizes that First Alcibiades remains a powerful text—arguably underappreciated—for helping students embark on the “ascent” to wisdom. The dialogue’s exploration of humility, ambition, and the teacher-student bond offers abiding relevance for both educational institutions and seekers of wisdom everywhere.
Resources Mentioned:
- Guide to First Alcibiades (by Harrison Garlick, available at thegreatbookspodcast.com)
- Dr. Daniel Shields: danielshields.info, Academia.edu
For next week, the podcast will turn attention to Plato’s Euthyphro.