Episode Summary: Plato’s Euthyphro Part I – “What Is Piety?”

Ascend – The Great Books Podcast
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick, Adam Minihan
Guests: Dr. Frank Grabowski, Thomas Lackey, Dr. Joey Spencer
Date: August 26, 2025

Overview & Main Theme

This episode inaugurates a two-part exploration of Plato’s Euthyphro, focusing on the context, setting, and the first of Euthyphro’s three definitions of piety. The panel probes the dialogue’s interplay of philosophy, religion, and the political order, approaching classic questions—What is piety? How do we imitate the divine? What can Socrates’ method teach us?—through a Catholic and Great Books lens. Special attention is given to how Plato’s notions of the Forms and the relationship between the philosopher and the city prepare the ground for later Christian synthesis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Why Euthyphro, Why Now?

• Euthyphro is often the first Platonic dialogue people read, introducing the figure of Socrates and the Socratic Method in an accessible way (05:56).

  • “It’s a good introduction... it really highlights and puts on good display the Socratic method, the way that Socrates operated.” — Dr. Grabowski (05:56)

• The panel situates the drama just before Socrates' trial and execution (399 BC), drawing connections to other late dialogues (Apology, Crito, Phaedo) and broader themes in Greek literature (05:05–09:11).

Who is Euthyphro? Character, Context, and Irony

• Euthyphro: presented as a religious expert with “esoteric knowledge"; not a typical Athenian, perhaps even a religious radical (15:10–21:10).
  • “...he’s not to be really, to be understood to be the average Athenian view of the gods. He’s something else.” — Thomas Lackey (15:45)
• Discussion of Euthyphro’s name (“straight thinker”)—is it ironic, or does it reflect a sincere, though simplistic, approach to piety? (21:10–23:07)

Socratic Irony as Teaching Tool

• Socratic irony is foregrounded: Socrates feigns ignorance, elevating his interlocutor’s confidence—"You are the expert. You should teach me." (38:54–44:51)
  • “What he does to get the answers out of Euthyphro is he says: No, no, you are the expert, and I defer to you, so you should teach me... It’s a wonderful rhetorical device.” — Deacon Garlick (38:54)
• Irony is deployed with kindness: “Always intended for the good of the person, not just to make fun of them.” — Thomas (45:09)

The Charges & Piety as a Political Problem

• Socrates’ charges: corrupting youth and not believing in the city’s gods—both linked to impiety and thus to civic disorder (11:20–13:25).
• Euthyphro’s shocking role: he is prosecuting his own father for murder—a direct affront to the traditional Greek hierarchy of piety (family, polis, gods) (24:43–27:48).
• The conversation explores precedents in Greek tragedy—how piety’s competing demands set up tragic, insoluble conflicts (Creon & Antigone, Orestes).

First Definition of Piety & The Turn to Myth

• Euthyphro’s answer: “The pious is to do what I am doing now” (prosecuting the wrongdoer)—an example, not a definition (52:13–56:09).
  • Socrates points out: what’s required is not an example but a universal, an “idea” or “form” of piety (56:21).
  • This launches a detour into Socrates’ and Euthyphro’s relationships to the gods and imitation of the divine.

“Imitation of the Gods” and Its Problems

• Euthyphro argues: his prosecution of his father is justified because even Zeus punished his father Kronos—shouldn’t we imitate the gods? (56:09–60:36)
  • The hosts note that such imitation is unorthodox in Greek religion. Unlike Christian “imitatio Christi,” Homeric heroes don’t consciously imitate their gods.

Plato’s Forms/Ideas & Their Christian Uptake

• The notion of “ideas” as universals is discussed at length (63:36–74:09):
  • Forms/Ideas = objective standards like “justice” or “piety,” more real than particulars; to know them is to judge particulars rightly.
  • Augustine’s innovation: these Forms are thoughts in the mind of God (74:09–77:34).
  • Thomas notes: “Each person is an irrepeatable thought of God” (77:34–79:01).
  • Dr. Spencer draws analogies from angelology, describing how angels know the universals directly—illuminating Plato’s metaphysics from a Christian angle (79:01–83:37).

The Philosopher vs. The Polis

• Socrates as a case study: is it possible for the philosopher to be pious if the city cannot recognize true piety? (93:43–99:26)
  • Most agree Socrates is pious in the sense of being faithful to the truth and the divine, but the city’s conception of piety is too limited to see this.
  • The dynamic tension between philosophy and the political/civic order is identified as a perennial problem: Can Athens (or any city) survive the conversion philosophical truth requires? (101:19–103:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“If you don't laugh during the dialogues, you haven't read them correctly.”
— Harrison Garlick [38:28]

“An idiot in the hands of Plato can teach you a lot.”
— Harrison Garlick [21:10]

“Socratic irony is always intended for the good of the person and not just to make fun of them... He's not just saying, ‘I'm going to show you that you’re an idiot’... but to bring [you] to a deeper understanding.”
— Thomas Lackey [45:09]

“What he doesn’t seem to understand… is that he has made a judgment about the gods. He, Euthyphro, the mortal, judges the immortal by a standard.”
— Harrison Garlick [62:14]

“We really are thoughts of God made flesh… the closing of that gap—moving towards who God knows me to be—is sanctification. It’s theosis."
— Harrison Garlick [74:39]

“Each person is an irrepeatable thought of God.”
— Thomas Lackey quoting Gabriel Marcel [77:34]

“If you simply turn Sartre around, you would have eternal and unchanging truths if you had an eternal and unchanging mind to hold them.”
— Thomas Lackey [79:01]

"You have to have an expert on angels to lead you through the Euthyphro."
— Harrison Garlick, after Dr. Spencer’s angelology [83:37]

Segment/Timestamp Guide

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–05:05 | Host, guests, episode setup, why study Euthyphro | | 05:05–09:11 | Dramatic/composition context, place in Plato’s works | | 09:11–17:00 | Socrates’ charges, political dimensions of piety | | 17:00–23:07 | Euthyphro’s character, his name, what/who he represents | | 23:07–27:48 | Euthyphro’s role—prosecuting his father, Greek piety hierarchy | | 27:48–36:19 | Political meaning of piety, parallel cases in Greek tragedy | | 36:19–44:51 | Socratic irony, teaching method, inversion of pious relationships | | 44:51–52:13 | Is Socrates really ignorant, negative/positive knowledge | | 52:13–56:09 | First definition of piety—an example, not an essence | | 56:09–63:36 | Imitating the divine: Zeus as model? Strauss on hidden gravity | | 63:36–74:09 | Plato’s Ideas/Forms, impact on Christianity (Augustine, Aquinas, angels) | | 74:09–83:37 | Further angelology, knowledge of universals, reason & infused knowledge | | 83:37–93:43 | True belief, the “common man,” faith and philosophy | | 93:43–99:26 | Can Socrates/the philosopher be truly pious? Can the polis recognize this? | | 99:26–103:55 | Philosophy/piety tension—can a society survive conversion? | | 103:55–106:32 | Closing thoughts, preview of Part II |

Takeaways for the First-Time & Returning Reader

• Euthyphro is deceptively simple; Plato’s layers allow both beginners and advanced readers to engage with ever greater depth.
• The dialogue models how philosophy is not about definitive answers, but about the examination and transcendence of everyday assumptions.
• Socratic irony is more than clever rhetoric; it’s a pastoral technique to invite people into genuine self-discovery.
• The question of “What is piety?” quickly becomes a conversation about universals, the divine, and the ordering of personal and political life.
• The relationship between philosophy, civic religion, and truth remains unsettled—foreshadowing later Christian syntheses but also perennial tensions.

Next Episode Preview

Part II will address Euthyphro’s further definitions and the famous “Euthyphro dilemma,” continuing this slow, attentive reading of Plato’s dialogue.

Resources & Further Reading

• Leo Strauss, On Plato’s Euthyphro
• Augustine, Confessions & De Trinitate
• Plato’s Euthyphro (various translations)
• Guide to the Euthyphro (at thegreatbookspodcast.com)

Find the hosts: greatbookspodcast.com — Resources, guides, and further discussion
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