Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Episode: Why Christians Should Read the Pagans
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick & Adam Minihan
Guests: Alec Bianco & Sean Baraby
Date: January 6, 2026

Overview

In this episode, the Ascend team tackles the perennial question: Why should Christians read pagan literature and philosophy? Drawing from the letters of St. Basil the Great and St. Jerome, the hosts and their guests explore how engagement with pre-Christian authors such as Homer, Hesiod, and Plato can enrich Christian faith, shape intellectual formation, and open up “the great conversation” at the heart of the Western tradition. Personal stories and lively theological commentary are woven with a close reading of classic patristic texts, aiming to guide both first-time and seasoned readers of the Great Books.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Journeys: How Pagan Texts Shaped Christian Faith

[07:24–15:04]

• Alec Bianco:

  • Grew up evangelical with suspicion toward pagan texts, but found that reading them aligned surprisingly easily with the Gospel.
    • “It wasn’t that hard. That’s the thing that blew me away. It wasn’t that hard to see how it aligned with the Gospel...” (09:33)
  • Loves the Iliad for its depiction of virtue; even “pagan” moderns like Hemingway offer surprising resonances with Christian themes.

• Sean Baraby:

  • Journeyed from cultural Catholicism and secular apathy back to faith through love of literature and philosophy.
  • Reading Plato’s Apology sparked the insight that it’s better “to die for the truth than to live a lie.”
  • "I really owe so much of my life’s journey of coming back to the faith… to Plato amongst many other great pagans." (11:50)

• Deacon Harrison Garlick:

  • Found that Great Books reading, especially Plato and Homer, cultivated a keener, more attentive reading of Scripture.
  • Reflects on the harmony of faith and reason, citing St. John Paul II: “faith and reason are the two wings upon which the soul rises to God.” (Paraphrased, 15:04)

2. The Theology of Reading ‘the Pagans’

[20:51–23:06]

• The hosts invoke the “mantra” that “Hebrew faith coupled together with Greek reason under Roman order prepared the world for Jesus Christ.”
• Quoting Pope Benedict XVI’s Regensburg Address: modern Christianity has become “de-Hellenized.” Recovering engagement with Greek reason is a path to restoring wonder and philosophical inquiry essential to faith.

Notable Quote:

• “The God that gave me an intellect is the same God that died upon the cross. And so there really shouldn’t be these antagonisms between faith and reason, or religion and science, or scripture and philosophy.” – Harrison Garlick [15:04]

3. St. Basil’s "Address to Young Men on the Right Use of Greek Literature"

[26:32–42:00]

• Basil’s main thesis: Christians should not avoid Greek (pagan) literature but learn to read it with discernment. It forms a preparatory training for the soul, readying it for a deeper reception of the Gospel.
• Analogy: Pagan literature is like the leaves on the fruit-bearing branch – essential preparation before tasting the fruit (Scripture itself).

Notable Quotes:

• “St. Basil praises Odysseus for his restraint and modesty before Nausicaa, illustrating how moments of pagan virtue become examples for Christian emulation.” – Harrison Garlick [36:06]

• “He’s being very Platonic… he’s referencing Hesiod and Homer and Plato, but also using analogies and almost Homeric similes. He’s almost writing a kind of pagan literature to them.” – Alec Bianco [32:17]

• The key is to read with Christ as the “standard of discrimination.” As with a bee seeking the best flowers, not every part of pagan literature is to be consumed.

4. Grappling with Pagan Morality

[42:56–47:28]

• St. Basil and the hosts emphasize that Christians don’t just copy pagan wisdom indiscriminately but draw out what aligns with the Logos.
• The approach isn’t defensive or puritanical; there’s a robust confidence that truth—wherever found—belongs to the Church.
  • “Truth is a person, Jesus Christ. And Christ then becomes the standard by which we discriminate.” – Harrison Garlick [41:35]
• Discussed dangers of both uncritical adoption and uncharitable rejection of non-Christian culture.

5. On Virtue: Elevating Pagan Examples

[54:26–60:30]

• Basil gives examples of pagan deeds and virtues exceeding even some Christians, which shames half-hearted believers and shows the need for natural virtue as groundwork for grace.
• “One who has been instructed in the pagan examples will no longer hold the Christian precepts impracticable.” – Basil, cited by Garlick [54:26]
• The elevation of the capabilities of unbaptized virtue does not diminish grace; it shows how grace perfects and elevates what nature can achieve.

6. Music and Moral Formation

[62:00–69:19]

• Exploration of Basil's discussion of music as a formative, soul-shaping force, paralleling his arguments on literature.
• Byzantine liturgical music and its shared roots with ancient Greek modes and forms.
  • “The tones, the modes mold the soul...and we should also do that with music—be discriminatory with the way we approach music.” – Alec Bianco [62:00]
• Good secular music can be an experience of beauty that sobers and elevates the soul.

7. St. Jerome’s Defense of Quoting Pagans

[70:31–80:44]

• St. Jerome is “combative but brilliant” as he defends referencing secular literature in Christian writing (Letter 70).
• He draws analogies from Scripture: Moses learning from Egyptians, Paul quoting Greek poets, and the Israelites despoiling Egypt.
  • “St. Jerome gives us this analogy: bringing the best of paganism into Christianity is like shaving the slave girl and making her your wife.” – Harrison Garlick [77:51]
• Sean Baraby: "Christianity is able to coexist with…ideologies, and on the very fact that Christianity is truth, it will conquer.” [76:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Harmony of Faith and Reason

• “There really shouldn’t be these antagonisms between faith and reason, or religion and science, or scripture and philosophy.” – Harrison Garlick [15:04]

On Reading with Discernment

• “Christ becomes the standard. And I loved…the example he gives here… when he praises Odysseus when he becomes shipwrecked… Odysseus shows a great amount of restraint and gentleman quality…What then could this teach me, a young Christian man, about natural virtue?” – Harrison Garlick [41:35]

On Pagan Virtue as Challenge

• “One who has been instructed in the pagan examples will no longer hold the Christian precepts impracticable.” – Saint Basil, cited by Garlick [54:26]

On Beauty and Formation

• “The best sort of moral instruction…is not necessarily words…but out of body experiences that get you outside of yourself, train you to look more hierarchically.” – Sean Baraby [69:19]

On “Despoiling the Egyptians”

• "The analogy par excellence…is the despoiling of the Egyptians…St. Augustine comments on this. Origen comments on this. And it’s…implied in St. Jerome’s letter." – Harrison Garlick [47:28]

On Proper Engagement with Pagan Texts

• “Whatever things were rightly said among all men are the property of us Christians.” – St. Justin Martyr, quoted by Alec Bianco [86:49]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 — Introduction: Why read the pagans? St. Basil and St. Jerome on Christians engaging Greek wisdom
• 07:24 — Alec and Sean’s personal journeys with pagan literature and Christian faith
• 15:04 — Harmony of faith and reason; practical benefits for reading Scripture
• 20:51 — Interplay of Hebrew faith, Greek reason, and Roman order; wonder as the beginning of philosophy
• 26:32 — Summary of St. Basil’s letter: reading Greek literature as formation
• 32:17 — Greek literature as mirror for self-reflection; Platonic influences in Basil
• 41:35 — Discriminating with Christ as standard; bee analogy for reading wisely
• 54:26 — On virtue, the role of pagan deeds, and model for Christians
• 62:00 — The formative, soul-shaping power of music in pagan and Christian contexts
• 70:31 — St. Jerome’s letter: defending Christian use of pagan sources
• 77:51 — Jerome’s “shaved slave girl” analogy; re-appropriating pagan culture
• 86:49 — Justin Martyr: “Whatever things were rightly said…”

Flow & Tone

The episode weaves erudition with personal narrative, combining scholarly engagement (close reading of early church fathers) with accessible analogies and practical observations. The hosts and guests are reflective yet enthusiastic, confident yet charitable in tackling contentious issues. Listeners are consistently invited to approach the Great Books project as a spiritual adventure of growth and wonder, not simply an academic exercise.

Takeaways

• The tradition of Christian engagement with pagan literature is ancient and widely endorsed by the Church Fathers.
• Reading works such as Homer and Plato, with discernment and Christ as standard, deepens virtue, refines moral and intellectual judgment, and renews the capacity for wonder.
• Faith and reason, revelation and philosophy, are not opposed but harmonized in the Incarnation and in the robust “great conversation” of the West.
• The best of pagan wisdom is not alien to Christianity, but—when rightly read—enriches and even amplifies the profound gift of grace.

Further Resources from the Episode

• St. Basil: “Address to Young Men on the Right Use of Greek Literature”
• St. Jerome: Letter 70
• Pope Benedict XVI, “Regensburg Address”
• St. Justin Martyr, “Apology”
• Plato: The Republic, The Apology
• Plutarch’s Lives

Guests’ Socials

• Sean Baraby:

  • Twitter: @SeanBaraby4
  • Coaching: seanbaraby.com

• Alec Bianco / The Searcy Institute:

  • searcyinstitute.org

For upcoming reading schedules and resources, check thegreatbookspodcast.com and connect on X/Twitter, YouTube, and Patreon.