A (4:17)

Yeah, absolutely. So we're shifting out of this ingredient era and moving towards outcomes instead of what's in it. The question becomes what does it actually do for my skin? And even more, what does it do for my overall health? And I think that's such a better way to, to be looking at it. And to your point, I think whatever was the catalyst, everyone, the consumer, even me as the professional obviously have been conditioned to grab the bottle, flip it over and look at the back and what are we even looking at? You know, I, I am the professional, I'm trained and me even I feel like what am I doing? You know, we're just hyper focused on the label instead of truly thinking about what is this doing for my health, my skin, the barrier, all those important little things.

C (5:10)

Ugh. It's one of my least favorite things on social media where it's an ingredient deck posting and it's like, is this acne safe? And like you're just ask what are you looking for on there? Maybe it goes back to the fact that we were looking for malefic ingredients. We were looking for things that at the time were being told that were scary or inappropriate or deceptive of at some point. But we know now that like dimethicone isn't always bad, for example. But at a certain point they were saying, yes, it's bad, you shouldn't do it, it's clogging your pores or it's suffocating whatever it is, when it's just really not True.

A (5:46)

Yeah. I think as well, there's been a shift in how we view beauty. So it's not about chasing perfection, it's about helping the skin function better. It's about living longer. It's about overall wellbe.

C (5:59)

Mm. Longer than. Not just right now, but next Monday too. Yeah, yeah. Perfect.

A (6:04)

Yeah. So what first came to mind when I was reading about this was chemical peels.

C (6:09)

Oh, I know what you're.

A (6:10)

Yes, you know, and I feel like about 10 to 15 years ago, maybe longer, everyone was so obsessed with what's in the bottle, what are the percentages, how strong is it, how deep is it going, how much are you going to peel? The more you peel, the better. And I feel like there was such a misunderstanding about how chemical peels function. And it isn't so much about the percentage, what's in the bottle. That started the whole debate about ph percentage, how effective that peel is. And the conversation has drastically shifted. Both manufacturers and estheticians now are focusing on outcome. And you started to have manufacturers drastically lower percentage, change the chemical makeup, if you will, for lack of a better description of this chemical peel they were selling and the consumer hadn't caught up yet. So they would say, for instance, what is the percentage? And if you were responding with, let's say, oh, 10% glycolic, quite effective, but in the eye of the consumer, that's not effective enough because the percentage isn't jacked up high. Right.

C (7:24)

To your point, I think what they're saying they practitioners are asking now or answering is do they need this? What does the. What does the client. What does the patient need? Where before it was slam on the gas, let's do it. I still think there is a place for high percentage, low PH peels. But what used to be the goal is getting to those. And now we understand that you can have really great effects or results from a different idea, a different approach. Some people might need that and you could work people into that, but it changes. Instead of just getting someone to a TCA, 20% TCA, let's say instead shifting it to what do this, what does the client need, what does the patient need today and what do they need in anticipation of what they might need next week so that next year their skin is perfect or healthy?

A (8:18)

Yeah, absolutely. We've moved from inputs, which is the percentage, to outcomes. Smoother texture, reducing the pigmentation, controlling the acne. I think that's a smaller scale version of what's happening in the industry right now.

C (8:32)

I think it's because we know more now. Too. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about this industry is we learn more all the time and we pivot and we adjust and we also do something that you mentioned is we wait for the consumer to catch up, but we're leading the charge in education for them and we're guiding and as professionals in this example of chemical peels, we have to educate quite a bit. We have to consider what's in their best interest. So knowing that the, the movement is pushing this way is fun, I think.

A (9:06)

Yeah, totally. Another shift this is happening is with acne.

C (9:10)

I hate this. It's this, is this acne safe? Because like for years, clients or even practitioners have been hyper focused on the, what you called the inputs of acne products. Like, is this oil free? It might not be the right answer because you might need just the right amount of oil to help balance your microbiome. Is this non comedogenic? You know my thoughts on comedogenicity and how it's such a really. It's a bad thing, Very bad thing. You know, it's not accurate. Or does this have salicylic acid or benzoyl peroxide? But what if the acne is from being dry or from being happy or from being sad? Salicylic or benzoyl peroxide might not be the answer for that person, that individual. So we have to step back and find out what is really happening here. It's not condition associated with ingredient anymore. It's not anti aging or age management. And glycolic. It's getting deeper to understand more. So acne clients, there's a huge market for that because it's a huge pain point and people want to resolve it. And I had a client two nights ago who was talking about her son. Her son breaks out, she goes here and she pointed around the nose, mouth, chin area. I said, oh, does he always have a breakout? She goes, no, it kind of flares up. I said, does he have food sensitivities? She said, he does. Actually, he does. I said, does that flare up right after the food sensitivities? Because she was trying to find out a product for him. She said, I think so. I'm gonna have to pay a little bit more attention. I said, pay attention to that because it might be better to have a product that supports the overall resiliency of the skin than a salicylic acid. Because it's not an overproduction issue. They're receptive. And we know that now, right? Yeah. So acne is one of Those things that you have to be able to look at the individual as an individual and not just this blanketed throw anything at it. It's really about addressing skin health as the whole body or the whole person looking at things like stress, diet, sleep hormones and all of that, right?

A (11:27)

Yeah, absolutely. I think one product that is perfectly bridging the gap between beauty and overall health is sunscreen. And we talk about sunscreen a lot. There is always either a issue or a debate or a conflict with sunscreen and, and I don't know why that is. Maybe because it's a drug, you know, it's impacting the skin's ability to function, quote, unquote. And it's also no longer this vacation ready product. It's something that's meant to be an everyday essential. And I think something that consumers and even professionals I can admit as well don't recognize regularly is that it's considered a life saving product. And maybe that's extreme, but its job literally is, is skin cancer prevention.

C (12:19)

That might be why there's so much weight on this product alone. It's because it's such a high value potential. But then there's a lot of misinformation thrown at it too. You should have chemical. You should not have chemical. You should have a mineral. But minerals are going to have a white cast and you should have two fingers long or you should have a quarter teaspoon or no, that's enough. Or guess what you're going to have. You don't have to be outside to be at risk. You can be in front of your computer screen. There's so many things involved with it. The use of it is super important. But I think the educational delivery, the I wish they can all get on the same page because I'm even. Do you use two fingers of spf? No, I don't either. But that's like the standard. But who sets that standard? Was that brand LED or FDA led? Cause I watched this guy on I think Instagram, you know who I'm talking about because I've sent you videos by him and he cuts these SPF product manufacturers down like, ooh, I'm never making an SPF product because I'm afraid it's gonna get on his list. But his metrics I don't always agree with. I don't always jive with everything he's saying. Yeah, but his point comes from information. Yeah, information that's out there that contradicts. Right. So anyways, I agree with you. Sunscreen is a no brainer and it's something estheticians have spoken about forever and it's important. And I think these generations that are coming up value it more than just a vacation product. Like we thought of it as vacation only stuff. It's more adopted by those generations.

A (13:54)

Yeah. I think that the most important takeaway is that the best sunscreen is the one your clients will wear. Doesn't matter chemical or mineral.

C (14:04)

The best sunscreen is the one they're gonna buy from me. Let me clarify.

A (14:11)

I love that.

C (14:12)

Yeah, for sure. But yeah, absolutely. That they're gonna wear every day. So what I took away from the article. Thank you for sharing it, by the way. What I took away from that article is that there's a shift. So I have a question for you. Yeah. Do you think this shift is a natural progression of what we learn based on our circumstances, or do you think this is marketing LED shift that we're just charging?

A (14:37)

Okay, that is really good, Ella. I think it's both. You know, I don't know because we've talked a lot here that initially it was all about the label. We were conditioned turn look at the label. Even all the marketing language like hyaluronic acid. Right. I think a lot of this now shift into whole health, whole beauty, wellness, whatever you want to call it. It's kind of a chicken or the egg sort of thing. Is the beauty industry now jumping on that bandwagon because the consumer is leading the charge? Or is it the beauty industry now marketing this? Right. And so the consumer's following suit.

C (15:24)

Okay, then here's a follow up question. Don't you think it's kind of cool?

A (15:28)

Oh, yeah.

C (15:29)

I mean, I think it's cool that we have this now, like, let me look at everything approach.

A (15:34)

I do think that's cool. I think that fits my philosophy better as an esthetician. What I think is more cool is that the industry always changes. If it wasn't always changing, I would be so bored.

C (15:46)

Same. Thank goodness. Well, I think it's really cool because it gives us more to your point of like changing gives us more to focus on, more for us to learn and then for us to share.

A (16:00)

Listeners we want to hear from you. What's your take on client outcomes and making skin health part of wellness? Share with us on social media, through Instagram, Facebook or by emailing getconnectedscpskincare.com thank you for listening to ASCPSDtalk. And as always, for more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Ella and myself or to learn more about ascp, check out the show notes.