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- [00:01]
A
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B
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- [01:17]
A
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- [02:14]
C
Hello and welcome to ASCP Essie Talk. I'm Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician and content contributor for Associated Skin Care Professionals.
- [02:22]
B
I'm Maggie Stasik, licensed esthetician and ASCP's program director.
- [02:26]
C
Okay, I have a story recently. It's very interesting. It's such a sign of the times. Recently I had a client. She's been with me since she was 14, I think maybe 13 actually, and she's now 17. So mom used to pay for her treatments. Mom used to pay for her products, but now she's a senior in high school and she's paying for her products and her treatments. So she reached out to me and said, can you give me a drugstore dupe of the product that I have her on? And I thought thank you for being honest, first of all. And what an interesting question, especially because the market has changed from a clear distinction of professional versus like drugstore products into it's a little bit muddier now. Dupes really are everywhere in skin care right now, but mostly built around similar ingredients. But similar ingredients as we know it doesn't mean similar performance. So today what I want to talk about is exploring the differences between drugstore dupes and professional products and then what that means for results, safety and trust in the treatment room. I think it's a topic that we've all experienced. That being said, Maggie, do you know what a dupe is?
- [03:42]
B
I do.
- [03:43]
C
You do? I do. I like a dupe for fragrance. It's really very similar, a lot cheaper. But I don't know if I would buy a dupe for skin because I'm just not really sure to be quite honest. A dupe is usually similar because they have a similar hero ingredient or they have a similar texture or feel or a similar marketing claim. And it's not necessarily the same delivery system, the same concentration, the same stability or the same formulation philosophy. I'm thinking of this like body tightening lotion I got and there is definitely dupes online, like on Amazon. But I was resistant because there was such a price discrepancy between this $50 body lotion and a $20. What they said was a dupe. And so it made me have to dig deeper into like, is this really worth it? And I just don't have time for that. So I'm going to go with the one that's tried and true because ingredient list versus functional formulation is super important to me. So just because it has a similar inky doesn't mean that it has the same performance.
- [04:47]
B
Yeah, I 100% agree. I don't believe there are dupes in skincare, is my honest opinion, because I think every brand, their formulation is going to be proprietary. So like you just said, the inkey list may have similarities. And so when I think dupe in skin care, really I'm just thinking I'm using this vitamin C serum. What's something similar that I could buy cheaper?
- [05:13]
C
Yes, but there's so much more to it, right?
- [05:15]
B
Yeah.
- [05:15]
C
Formulation really is where the real difference lives in professional skin care, I mean, no, no, there's marketing terms and there's differentiations. We talk about medical skin care, which is nothing cosmeceutical, which is just meant to say we have better ingredients and, you know, those poo pooing, those drugstore brands or whatever. But here's the difference. In professional skincare particularly, there is a focus on bioavailability, there is a focus on delivery systems, there is a synergy with the ingredients and how they work together. It's really important. The other thing is the PH has been optimized, there's preservation and stability and it's formulated in a way that it can be taught to the consumer by a professional. And drugstore brands really focus on a little bit different areas. They focus on shelf stability because it's not the same product turnover, retail turnover as in a professional space. They focus on mass production so they can get it out and have it available plentiful. They focus on cost efficiency and broad tolerance, which is in case somebody picked it off the shelf. It wouldn't have traditionally have as many Actives so that there's not people reacting to it. All of that makes a ton of sense. And the other thing is to understand why Actives behave differently depending on encapsulation, like we talked about with retinol, depending on penetration enhancements like when we're using terpenes or what other support ingredients, functional ingredients are part of the formulation. So there is a difference. If we go back really quick, I want to share my experience back when I was working with a lot of CBD brands and working with getting them on the like mass store. I wouldn't say big box store, but let's just say Whole Foods. Working on getting a product in Whole Foods, it was a completely different sales experience than working on getting the same product in this large chain, a spa chain. They wanted serious discounts, they wanted free product, like a lot of free product. And so to support that as a brand, you have to find ways to cut costs to be able to sell it at a certain price point. So there are, and I'm going to die on this cross, there are formulation differences between professional brands and those that you're going to find at Sephora, those that you're going to find at Nordstrom or those you're going to find out cvs.
- [07:46]
B
So going back to your client who is looking for a dupe, are you able to truly find an alternative over the counter product for her
- [07:56]
C
over one single product? No, it was. Can you find over the counter products that will suffice? Absolutely.
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B
But not dupes.
- [08:06]
C
But not complete carbon copy dupes. Not the same as like that Baccarat rouge or perfume. And then the dupes that you get from. I don't know, I don't even know the brand names. But you know what I'm saying, not as like apples to apples comparison. I didn't. I'm sure there's somewhere. But there's two things. Of course people will say that they get results from the stuff that they're buying at Target or you Know, like I mentioned Nordstrom's, of course. So let's talk about why that happens and then we can get to like what I did. The, the solution. It's really important, especially when you're talking this client in particular, you know, this is going to influence the way she shops forever because she's young. But you also have people who come in who are attached to the products that they use and, and they're thinking it's a similar efficacy or they're thinking that they got a dupe. Here's the deal. Why clients say that they see some results is because they do. And it could be so many factors as to why they're seeing those results. But with those formulation differences we can understand that there is a chance they're going to plateau. Also there is another chance that they could experience not as much or an adverse reaction like an irritation. There is this other one that is close enough. This is really close to what I'm thinking of, like over the counter retinol, like ones. It's close enough and that could be true. We know that we have products that are super effective because not only do they have that one hero ingredient, but they have peptides. And those peptides work really well with those brighteners and those brighteners actually enhance antioxidant benefits. You know what I'm saying? We have to be able to explain that. And the other thing is we know with the brands that we carry that we're educated on, that we've researched that we see, we see in our treatment room, but we also see in the clients that we sell or provide to day in, day out for X amount of days a week that there is predictability, that there is safety and that there is long term skin health changes. So it's the difference between a short term glow and a long term change would be the best way I would describe that. Do you know what I mean?
- [10:22]
B
Very good point, Ella.
- [10:23]
C
Yeah, thanks. And then there's something else to understand with this conversation. For this particular client, I wanted to be very careful that I was educating her and not shaming her because dupes are a big thing and I didn't want her to go, that's so dumb because I don't want to also compromise the trust that we've built over this time. So it's important not to shame your clients when they're looking for dupes, but rather talk to them when you're speaking with them. Don't sound like you're an elitist, like you're so much better but explaining other questions, maybe presenting questions to them like how stable is this? What's the delivery system? Who formulated it? It could be true that that product is a great product. But asking those questions poses that there's really no way to know other than the marketing efforts that they have. And instead talking about your brands, not in like a finger wagging way, but our brands are. The brand I carry is guided. I'm able to customize treatments because I know exactly. Or home care because I know exactly what's in this product. I'm able to monitor it. And we're being very strategic to come up with something that's exclusive for you. Right.
- [11:41]
B
I think there's two really important points to be made here, which is one, in recent years we've seen kind of this blending of over the counter and professional and maybe blending isn't the right word, but over the counter products have really become elevated. You can find some great products, products at the drugstore that are highly effective. The other thing is that, and, and maybe this has changed a little bit. But consistently professional products are intended to be more concentrated. You use less, yes, they're more expensive, but it should last you longer. And so when you have that client that comes to you that says I need a dupe, presumably because they can't afford the product you're trying to sell them, you, the conversation about really this is about the same amount of money as what you would be spending over the counter. You should be having that conversation with them.
- [12:36]
C
That's what happened with this client. I, I did the, my due diligence on my other end because I wanted to find her something, if I'm being honest, I really wanted to find her something that fit for her budget and for what she had. You know what she had in this case, she has really bad acne and it's reactive acne that is emotional for her, her very bad anxiety. So knowing her and understanding all of that, I wanted to present it back in a way that wasn't. And by the way, true to her age, she's communicating best via text. So how do I convey this without the intonation of my voice and the intention and you know, all those. So basically what I did for her is I said, sure, here's what I found. This is how this product works. It is balances your microbiome. It has an element of anti inflammatory. It has this ingredient, this ingredient. This is the, this is how this, the one that I carry works. So in order to have that, you're gonna need to get this product for that, this product for that and this product for that. And I like bounce and then it doesn't. Couldn't find anything that would have this one in it. And this is how much this one is. This is how much this one is. So she was like, oh wow, that's pretty much the same price. I said it is. She's like, well I'm probably better off getting the one from you. I said if you want, I'll give you a little discount. So I ended up giving her a discount and calling it a day cuz it felt good. But that's how I handled the situation. Because if we're being honest, there are times to your point where drugstore products can be useful. Maybe a cleanser, right? Maybe body care, maybe transitional routines or travel size or budget recovery phases where we like bring something in but keep something important using that holding pattern routines between treatments. Like there's a time when drugstore products can work. But professional skincare matters most when you want to have clinical authority on things like acne, hyperpigmentation, barrier dysfunction, aging, like severe, not just like maintenance stuff. Post procedure recovery. Super important for a professional. Only compromised or inflamed skin or even chronic conditions. This is really where you want to have professional stuff. So framing your conversation with that is important. That's how I framed it with this client because she is acne. And now what we're working on is the after effects of that. And the reason that we are here with this particular client is because I had to get her out of the drugstore products she was using. The stuff that her, she was seeing on TikTok, the stuff her friends were using, the sheet mask that she researched on her own. We really taught her over these last few years about her skin which is foundational for her hopefully. And I taught her how to feel intuitive and not just lean on somebody so that she feels safe having these types of conversations. I taught her why this is good for her, why we're doing this type of treatment so that she can like answer some of those same questions out in the wild when she's getting ready to go to college now. And I, I just wanted to share that part because I think that's really, really important.
- [15:47]
B
I agree.
- [15:48]
C
Um, something else, something else that is part of the dupe is the social media and influencer culture because they're toting it. And let's talk about why influencers push dupes. It's not necessarily because it's something they even know about, but really they're using their affiliate link or maybe they're jumping on the virality of something popular, or it's because it's accessible and they're driving content. But the difference is clear. When we're talking about content creation and clinical care, would you say?
- [16:22]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I think that the two big things are accessibility and virality. I mean, over the counter, it's everywhere. It's so easy to get. It's recognizable brands and names. And when you have these influencers pushing those things out, it's something people recognize and they can relate to and then go and easily purchase. And for an influencer, sometimes that equates to dollars.
- [16:48]
C
You know what I saw the other day, I was so angry. There's this influencer dermatologist and she was talking about closed comedones. Closed Comedones looked kind of like Milia to me. She showed a picture and she said, and that's why you need benzoyl peroxide for close to what? And it was 60 seconds, maybe 30 seconds, I don't know. It was a short thing. And I like this particular dermatologist. There she was. I don't have any doubt that she's not talented or knows her stuff, but in this 30 second clip, like I'm making a little bit more dramatic next time I'd be like, in this 10 second clip. But in this short little clip, she was saying, if you have this, put up a picture that was close comedones. They're closed comedones. And really what you need is benzoyl peroxide and you need this, and you need this. And I was like, but that's not. Do you think?
- [17:43]
B
No.
- [17:43]
C
And you're a benzo fan.
- [17:45]
B
I'm a benzo fan, yeah.
- [17:46]
C
Benzoyl peroxide.
- [17:47]
B
But not. Right. But not for closed comedones.
- [17:51]
C
Not for closed comedones. There was nothing inflammatory about what this picture that she showed up. So that's when it's hard for me. And I think this is why estheticians have to educate without competing with other estheticians. And then they also have to encourage the assessment of the individual. And if we start using that language when we're making our content, I think that's the better move.
- [18:21]
B
And you're not just competing with the other estheticians, you're now competing also with these dermatologist influencers.
- [18:26]
C
Right, that are generalizing. So what does it mean for professional aesthetics when we're talking about dupes? Dupes really make us think more. Right. Dupes can make us better practitioners because it's going to encourage us to know our ingredients, but not just that, it's going to encourage us to understand the formulations we work with, but not just that, it's going to make us improve our consultations and speak about skin more intelligently. This is really credibility moment for professional estheticians, would you say?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [19:03]
C
Now listeners, we really want to hear from you. Are dupes replacing professional skincare or just revealing where education is missing? Reach out via Instagram, Facebook, or send us an email at. Get connected@ascpskincare.com we want to know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP STTalk. For more information on this episode, or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, or to learn more about ascp, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ASCP stdoc.