Summary: Ask Haviv Anything – Ep. 102 "Freedom under missile fire, the Passover story" (with Rabbi David Stav)

Podcast: Ask Haviv Anything
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Guest: Rabbi David Stav, Chief Rabbi of Shoham, Chairman of Tsohar
Date: March 28, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode, aired just days before Passover (Pesach), departs from politics and war to focus on the deep and sometimes paradoxical meanings of the holiday. Haviv interviews Rabbi David Stav—one of Israel’s most influential moderate rabbis—about the themes of slavery and freedom in Jewish tradition, what it means to celebrate liberty amid fear and violence (such as running to bomb shelters due to missile fire), and how these narratives shape individual and national consciousness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Paradox of Freedom and Slavery at Pesach

• Contradictory Rituals:
  • The Seder begins with "Ha lachma anya… This year we are slaves, next year we will be free." Even in the prosperous Land of Israel, Jews are commanded to say both "we are slaves" and "we are free".
• Historical Context:
  • Rabbi Stav notes that throughout most of Jewish history, Jews lacked sovereignty and lived under foreign powers, yet Passover was still called "the time of our freedom."
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 07:53):

    "We are free, even though sometimes the technical circumstances might be confused, might confuse us, and to think that we are slaves."

2. Freedom Under Fire: Celebrating While Under Threat

• Modern Israel’s Reality:
  • Haviv and Rabbi Stav discuss celebrating freedom while literally running to bomb shelters due to missile attacks.
  • Rabbi Stav recounts an anecdote about a French immigrant in Netanya explaining to his children that Israel’s ability to defend itself—even if it means running to shelters—is itself freedom.
• Philosophy of Agency:
  • There’s a distinction between suffering with no agency, and suffering because you have the ability to make choices and protect yourself.
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 11:15):

    "I will run to the shelter, and I will tell my kids, we are so proud to be free... Freedom doesn't mean convenience."

3. Inner Freedom: Lessons from Dissidents

• Stories of Prisoners:
  • Both Nathan Sharansky and Yuli Edelstein’s experiences as Soviet dissidents are discussed. Though physically imprisoned, they believed themselves to be more free than their KGB jailers, who lived in fear.
  • Quote (Haviv, recounting Sharansky, 15:29):

    "So which of us is in prison? I can laugh at anything I want. You can't."

4. The Role of Memory: Why Begin with Slavery

• Rav Kook’s Teachings:
  • Remembering slavery is not just about appreciating freedom, but about learning how to use it and prevent its loss.
  • Personal anecdote of an Australian Holocaust survivor keeping his childhood escape bag in his office to stay grounded.
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 21:00):

    "We should always remember our failures. We should never be too proud of ourselves because we should always know that if somebody is so arrogant... somewhere there is somebody that is looking after you and trying to kill us..."

5. Learning from the "Other": Slavery and Idolatry as Tools for Freedom

• Chazal and Idolatry:

  • The importance of acknowledging not only the suffering experienced in Egypt but also the ancestral participation in idolatry—teaching that spiritual intimacy and discipline can be learned from one’s mistakes, even from "the other side."
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 24:45):

    "Somebody that is a slave is afraid to learn from the other side... When the rabbis taught us we should begin with the disgrace... the idea is we have to learn from everybody."

• Discipline and Rules:

  • True freedom, according to Rav Kook, comes with discipline and structure, lessons only understood through experiencing "slavery."

6. Jewish Sovereignty and Its Dangers

• Modern Lessons:
  • Israeli Jews may not appreciate the experience of exile and powerlessness. Tales of anti-Zionist Haredim reveal that only by once having lived as powerless "strangers" can one truly appreciate what it means to be "home."
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 29:23):

    "The only reason why he dared [to insult police] is because he feels at home, he feels deep, deep in his heart he is a Zionist."

7. Philosophy, Intimacy, and Practice in Judaism

• Maimonides (Rambam) as a Model:
  • Haviv queries the place of philosophical religion vs. experiential intimacy with God. Rav Stav responds that Rambam does show personal feelings in letters, and that real intimacy with God comes from ethical action.
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 37:00):

    "The Torah was meant to teach us how to make society better, better in all meaning... you have to translate and to implement all the ideas to the way you look at your friend..."

8. The Universal Message of Pesach

• Passover as Universal:

  • Rav Stav references Rav Kook’s idea that the Exodus is a lesson for all humanity, adopted by the American founders and echoed in the United Nations' values.
  • Quote (Rav Stav, 40:10):

    "Pesach is not only a Jewish holiday... the redemption of the Jewish people from Egypt will be forever the spring from humanity."

• Holiness as Action:

  • Haviv ends by noting that Torah commands "Be holy," not "You are holy," emphasizing ongoing effort and moral striving.
  • Quote (Haviv, 41:09):

    "Holiness is a thing you do. It is not a status conferred upon you from without. That is certainly the goal of Pesach."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rabbi Stav on Freedom:

  "Freedom doesn't mean convenience." (11:15)

• Sharansky’s Joke in the KGB Interrogation:

  "So which of us is in prison? I can laugh at anything I want. You can't." (15:29, paraphrased by Haviv)

• On Remembering Slavery:

  "When we succeed, we should always remember what happened before, because what happened before could happen after as well." (21:00)

• On Learning from the Other:

  "We can learn from the one that worships idols, we can learn from the one that is a slave." (24:45)

• Rabbi Stav on Israeli Success:

  "We are privileged to live in such an amazing era of Jewish history in the state of Israel." (17:50)

Important Timestamps

• 00:04–04:00: Introduction, guest bio, podcast vision
• 04:46–07:53: Plight of Israelis under missile fire, the question of freedom during hardship
• 07:53–17:50: The paradox of freedom and slavery in the Seder and in Jewish history
• 17:50–19:04: Broader meaning of Jewish independence and faith in exile
• 19:04–24:45: The importance of remembering past slavery, learning from failures, Rav Kook’s ideas
• 24:45–32:18: The significance of learning from idolatry and other errors; need for discipline and humility
• 32:18–41:09: Philosophical vs. intimate religiosity, role of implementation, Judaism’s universal message
• 41:09–end: Holiness as action; closing thoughts on Pesach’s legacy for all humanity

Conclusion

This episode is a thoughtful, passionate exploration of how Jews and all people might find and celebrate freedom even when under threat. The Seder is revealed as a ritual of paradox: commemorating pain while celebrating joy, recalling subjugation to fuel agency, and insisting that moral striving must never cease. The episode’s core message is that freedom is less a political state and more a mindset—one forged through remembrance, humility, and active commitment to values, even during times of danger or suffering.