Podcast Summary: "Ask Haviv Anything" Episode 26 Title: How Iran’s Regime Subverted Shia Islam
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Guest: Hussein Abdul-Hussain, Research Fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies
Release Date: July 4, 2025

1. Introduction

In Episode 26 of "Ask Haviv Anything," host Haviv Rettig Gur engages in a profound discussion with Hussein Abdul-Hussain, a research fellow whose expertise sheds light on the intricate dynamics between Shia Islam and the geopolitical maneuvers of Iran’s regime. This episode delves deep into the transformation of Shia Islam under Iranian influence and its ramifications across the Middle East.

2. Guest Background: Hussein Abdul-Hussein

[00:05] Haviv: "We’re going to understand some of the ideological depth to the Israel Iran war... with Hussein Abdul Hussein, a research fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies in Washington."

Hussein introduces his background, highlighting his Iraqi-Lebanese heritage and his journey from Baghdad and Lebanon to the United States two decades prior. His personal experiences growing up amidst the Iran-Iraq War and the Lebanese Civil War provide him with a unique perspective on the evolution of Shia Islam and its intersection with politics.

[04:25] Hussein: "My story is just like that of many families in the Middle East... I've been doing this for over two decades now."

3. Historical Context: Shia Islam Pre-1979

Before the Iranian Revolution of 1979, Shia Islam in Arab countries like Iraq and Lebanon was predominantly pacifist and deeply rooted in local traditions. The Shia communities were well-integrated into their respective societies, pledging allegiance to their national governments rather than any transnational religious authority.

[10:07] Haviv: "There is a Shia world of 50 years ago, and then there's a Shia world of 30 years ago."

Hussein emphasizes that traditional Shia Islam did not harbor the militant and revolutionary ideologies that later became prominent under Iranian influence.

4. Khomeini's Revolution and Ideological Shift

The 1979 Iranian Revolution, led by Ruhollah Khomeini, marked a significant turning point for Shia Islam. Khomeini introduced a theocratic framework, positioning himself as the Supreme Leader and advocating for an Islamic government—a concept previously alien to traditional Shia thought.

[13:19] Haviv: "Khomeini and his clerics... started adopting a fundamentally Sunni world of ideas into Shiism."

Hussein explains how Khomeini's adoption of revolutionary Islamist ideologies, influenced by Sunni thought leaders like Sayyid Qutb, transformed Shia Islam from a primarily spiritual and community-focused religion into a politically charged movement.

[16:13] Haviv: "They revolutionized this whole idea into this Muslim Brotherhood revolutionary kind of concept."

5. Shia-Sunni Differences and Tensions

The podcast highlights the longstanding theological split between Shia and Sunni Islam, rooted in disagreements over the rightful succession of leadership after Prophet Muhammad. Historically, Sunnis have been the majority and held political power, while Shias remained minority communities with their own religious leadership.

[14:46] Hussein: "The Shia Arab have been Shia at least a millennium before the Iranian Shia... we get to set the instructions."

Hussein underscores the cultural and linguistic differences between Arab Shias and Persian (Iranian) Shias, emphasizing that the latter's imposition of their version of Shia Islam has been met with resistance from traditional Arab Shia communities.

6. The Role of Jerusalem and Quds in Shia vs Sunni Islam

Jerusalem holds a central place in Sunni Islam, symbolized by Al Aqsa Mosque, but it does not hold the same theological significance in traditional Shia Islam. The Iranian regime’s adoption of Jerusalem-centric narratives, such as Quds Day, represents a departure from historical Shia priorities and has been a point of contention.

[32:03] Haviv: "Hezbollah cannot have a word of Palestine in it. In the year 2000... we can’t do anything for them."

Hussein describes how the Iranian regime has artificially integrated the Palestinian cause into Shia ideology, despite traditional Shias in Lebanon and Iraq not prioritizing Jerusalem in their religious or cultural narratives.

7. Impact of Iranian Regime on Shia Communities in Lebanon and Iraq

Iranian influence has significantly impacted Shia communities in Lebanon and Iraq, often through financial coercion and political manipulation. This has led to a schism between traditional Shia identities and the ideologies promoted by the Iranian regime.

[45:02] Hussein: "The Shia of Iraq do not think, or the majority of them... they hate it when they're depicted this way."

Hussein points out that many Shias in Iraq and Lebanon are increasingly resisting Iranian influence, evidenced by election results where pro-Iranian candidates have been losing ground. He suggests that the weakening of Iranian control could lead to a resurgence of traditional, less militant Shia identities.

[49:38] Haviv: "Does such an Iraq join Abraham Accords that is in the Sunni world?"

Hussein discusses the potential for a Shia-majority Iraq, freed from Iranian ideological control, to align more closely with Abraham Accords, highlighting shifts in regional alliances.

8. Prospects for the Future: A Post-Iran Regime Shia Islam

Hussein optimistically envisions a future where Shia communities reclaim their traditional identities, free from Iranian manipulation. He believes that dismantling the Iranian regime's political influence would allow Shias in Iraq and Lebanon to pursue peace and integration without the militant constraints previously imposed.

[53:15] Haviv: "You are of the belief that this is a beautiful, wonderful thing... openings for the real thing."

[53:25] Hussein: "If the regime collapses... this whole charade will change."

Hussein concludes that the current struggles faced by Shia communities are largely due to external manipulation by the Iranian regime. Without this influence, he believes Shias will naturally align with broader regional peace initiatives and focus on their communities' well-being.

Notable Quotes

• Hussein Abdul-Hussein:
  [10:07] "I was born into something and I was growing up until now. It's. It eventually evolved into something else. And that was the point of my article."
  [14:46] "The Shia Arab have been Shia at least a millennium before the Iranian Shia. So we get to set the instructions, we get to set the beliefs, we get to set how this religion looks like."
  [25:38] "So they borrowed from two main sources... anti imperialism and anti Semitism and having an Islamic government and, and restoring Islam to its glory."
  [45:02] "The Shia of Iraq do not think, or the majority of them, or at least half of them do not think of Iran as being their patron or their sponsor."
  [49:38] "If the regime collapses, I doubt that the Shia will ever hold the Quds Day ever again."

• Haviv Rettig Gur:
  [10:07] "You know, this is not Shiism. What you see now in Iran is not really the Shiism that I grew up with and that I know."
  [23:01] "This was an immense gap in the fundamental kind of cultural nature, political nature of the religion between the Arab experience and the Persian experience that today is expressed."

Conclusion

Episode 26 of "Ask Haviv Anything" offers a comprehensive exploration of how Iran’s regime has redefined Shia Islam, transforming it from a traditional, community-oriented faith into a politicized and militant ideology. Through Hussein Abdul-Hussein’s insightful analysis, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the historical and cultural forces shaping the contemporary Middle East, and the potential pathways toward a more peaceful and authentically Shia future.

For a more in-depth exploration, listeners are encouraged to read Hussein Abdul-Hussein’s op-ed in the Jewish Chronicle and follow up on the historical and political contexts discussed in this episode.