Podcast Summary: "Ask Haviv Anything" Episode 51

Title: Antisemitism and the Black Experience
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Guest: Coleman Hughes
Date: October 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep, candid conversation between Haviv Rettig Gur and Coleman Hughes – journalist, author, and host of "Conversations with Coleman." Together, they explore the roots, manifestations, and future of antisemitism in the United States, with a particular focus on the intersections between the Black and Jewish communities. Touching on recent geopolitical developments, American and global political partisanship, and lived experience, the discussion unpacks why antisemitic attitudes persist, how political narratives shape public opinion, and the uncomfortable truths about envy and identity in minority experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Trump Gaza Ceasefire Deal” and American Partisan Silence

[03:21 - 09:56]

• Backdrop: The conversation opens after unprecedented peace news: a Trump-brokered deal poised to end the Gaza War and return hostages, with broad international involvement.
• Coleman’s Observation: Despite the "Ceasefire Now" movement being highly vocal, there's now an odd silence among American progressives as the ceasefire actually becomes achievable.
  • Quote:
    “We’re actually at the 10 yard line, as we would say in America, on a ceasefire deal. And suddenly all the same people are just kind of oddly silent.” — Coleman [06:04]
• Analysis: The silence either stems from deep-seated partisanship (if Trump did it, it's bad) or from an underlying support for Hamas, contradicting previous humanitarian claims.
  • Quote:
    “It exposes the Ceasefire now folks as either so partisan that they care more about their partisanship than about ending the suffering in Gaza... or it gives away that you actually have been pro-Hamas this whole time.” — Coleman [08:56]
• Haviv’s View: He splits the protest movement into sincere, decent “marchers” and a sophisticated activist core with more nefarious motives now laid bare.
  • Quote:
    “There’s something bad at the heart of this campaign that mobilized millions of good people. It's astonishing to me, it's a moment of clarity...” — Haviv [11:44]

2. American Political Style and Middle East Diplomacy

[14:35 - 20:28]

• Praise for Trump’s Style: Both discuss how Trump's willingness to engage in pragmatic, transactional diplomacy worked effectively in the Middle East, contrasting it with Democratic administrations’ constraints.
  • Quote:
    “Would the Harris administration have had the competence to do that? Would the Harris administration have been able to step out of moralizing...that the Trump administration knows how to do?” — Haviv [16:45]
  • Coleman’s Assessment:
    “His foreign policy, in my view, has never been weak...It’s actually been a strength for him.” [19:48]

3. The State of Antisemitism in America

[20:28 - 32:37]

• Data & Perception: FBI data and polling show a clear spike in antisemitism post-2024, but antisemitism has long been the most common religious hate crime in the US.
  • Coleman distinguishes three “rivers” of antisemitism:
    1. Right-wing (Nazi-style)—classic scapegoating and conspiracy,
    2. Left-wing—projecting “whiteness” and privilege onto Jews,
    3. Black community-specific (discussed later).
  • Quote:
    “Is it one phenomenon or is it like three or four phenomenons that end up...becoming one river and feel like one phenomenon from the Jewish side?” — Coleman [24:14]
• Left-wing Antisemitism: Explained as an (often unconscious) extension of anti-white rhetoric, where Jews are seen as “the paradigmatic example of white privilege, white oppressor.”
  • Quote:
    “The only reason that Americans care about the Israel Palestine conflict...is because we think it's a case of a white man with his knee on the neck of a brown man.” — Coleman [27:03]

4. Sensitivities and Identity

[32:37 - 38:11]

• Are Jews too sensitive to antisemitism? Coleman draws parallels with understandable Black hypersensitivity to racism, but cautions both groups to remain self-aware:
  • Quote:
    “I would be shocked if Jews were not overly sensitive to antisemitism, given the history of being expelled from every country, the pogroms, the Holocaust...” — Coleman [37:18]

5. Black Antisemitism—Historical and Psychological Roots

[38:11 - 54:32]

• Social Context: Black American antisemitism is both direct (open remarks about Jews) and indirect (via broader anti-white sentiment).
• Historical Legacy:
  • James Baldwin’s 1967 essay forms an anchor: Black Harlem residents saw Jews as part of the white power structure, a function of migration sequence and socioeconomic position.
  • Coleman:
    “...Black people in America, black Americans see Jews as white. In other words, we understand there are different ethnicities of white people...but we see these as all subcategories of white.” — [41:11]
• Nation of Islam & Supersessionism:
  • NOI promoted a theology in which Black Americans are “the real Jews,” breeding resentment of contemporary Jews; its influence far outstrips its numbers due to its prominence in music and culture.
  • Quote:
    “It became more Anti Jewish over time...the idea is that we African Americans, we are the real Jews.” — Coleman [46:40]
  • On cultural impact:
    “NOI was never like a majority of black people were into that...but it punched far above its weight because all of the black rappers of a certain generation...were deeply steeped in Farrakhan and Nation of Islam.” — [48:15]
• Envy and “The Challenge” of Jews:
  • Rivalrous envy arises because Jews, with a well-documented history of oppression, “rise” in American society—casting doubt on the received Black narrative that past oppression must always explain current disadvantage.
  • Quote:
    “Now, the Jews are a deeper problem, a deeper challenge to that story. Why? Because you can’t honestly say that the history of Jewish oppression hasn’t been profound...That becomes a much deeper challenge than the Irish or Italians or any other.” — [51:02]
  • Holocaust denial and other conspiracy theories often emerge as mechanisms for psychological self-protection in this context.
  • Coleman, summarizing:
    “The deepest reason why black Americans arrive at antisemitism...has again, everything to do with our own story. Very little to do with the Jewish story...when given a choice between looking deep into our story...and getting mad at the Jews and denying their story, obviously we choose the latter.” — [54:42]
  • Haviv:
    “Maybe there’s a lesson there in the Jewish experience.” [62:28]

6. A Note on Jewish Social Mobility

[60:53 - 63:25]

• Jews did not arrive wealthy:
  • Haviv recounts how American Jews arrived destitute; their story is one of rapid upward mobility, in part driven by cultural aspiration rather than reality.
  • Jewish social stigma erased organized crime within a generation—an implicit cultural contrast and potential lesson for other groups.

7. Optimism and Final Reflections

[63:53 - End]

• Coleman is cautiously optimistic:
  • “Our attention span is short...things do fall back to where they were. Once the war ends...this disturbing trend isn’t just going to keep getting more disturbing. It can go back.” — [64:03]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On partisanship & the Gaza deal:
  “If Trump did it, it’s bad. That is actually the thinking of about half the country.” — Coleman [07:52]

• On the psychological root of Black antisemitism:
  “The world's problem with you guys is that you’re doing a little bit too well...we invent reasons why you must be pulling all the strings...it’s just based in envy, differently directed and it's contemptible.” — Coleman [59:16]

• On Jewish and Black relations:
  “You would think black people and Jewish people in America would get along better than anyone because we’ve had...the exact same historical enemy. We vote for the same party...” — Coleman [49:35]

• Closing optimism:
  “Once the war ends and Americans are no longer seeing a distorted reality on their phones...things could thaw out.” — Coleman [64:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction, Sponsor dedications: [00:05 – 03:21]
• Gaza deal, American public response: [03:21 – 12:58]
• Trump’s foreign policy and partisanship: [14:35 – 20:28]
• Antisemitism today in America: [20:28 – 32:37]
• On comparing Jewish and Black sensitivities: [32:37 – 38:11]
• Deep dive: Black antisemitism and its psychological roots: [38:11 – 60:53]
• Jewish social mobility insights: [60:53 – 63:25]
• Concluding thoughts and hope: [63:53 – End]

Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, honest, and at times challenging, with both speakers probing each other's ideas respectfully but rigorously. The use of humor is occasional but purposeful, and both are careful to acknowledge the limits of their respective perspectives. The podcast steers clear of easy answers or platitudes, insisting instead on an empathetic yet unsparing examination of difficult topics.