Episode Overview

Episode Title: 'From the River to the Sea' – Lost in Translation?
Podcast: Ask Haviv Anything
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Date: January 25, 2026
Main Theme:
Haviv tackles the origins, meanings, and controversies surrounding the slogan “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” He explores its boundaries, historical context, and the various interpretations and misinterpretations of the phrase, particularly differentiating between Western progressive and Palestinian perspectives. The discussion delves into issues of identity, nationhood, and the realities behind calls for justice in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Does “From the River to the Sea” Refer To?

• Geographical boundaries:
  • The phrase references the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea (00:45).
• Competing Claims:
  • “In between the river and the sea are two peoples, one Jewish, one Arab.” (01:05)
  • The region’s identity—whether it’s called “Palestine” or “the land of Israel”—has been contested for over two millennia.

Evolution and Political Usage of the Phrase

• Against the Two-State Model:
  • “When people say ‘from the river to the sea’ today, they generally are saying Palestine will be free right after... it isn’t enough to talk about two states.” (01:20)
  • The slogan opposes compromise or partition, advocating for a single entity over the whole territory.
• What kind of “Freedom”?
  • Haviv parses two broad interpretations:
    • American progressive model: A “civic democracy” without ethnic content, where “everyone in the land has a vote and everything is handled... as a civic democracy without any ethnic content.” (02:45)
    • Palestinian nationalist model: A specifically Arab and Muslim state, not a civic democracy.

Western Progressive vs. Palestinian Meanings

• Progressive Misconceptions:
  • Some in the West believe the phrase calls for an American-style multicultural democracy, but, as Haviv stresses, “That is a fiction sold to foreigners by certain diaspora Palestinians running a propaganda campaign.” (03:25)
• On Palestinian Intent:
  • “The Palestinians have written a constitution for their state... it is an Arab state. It has an ethnic identification. And... Muslim law. Sharia law is a source of legislation.” (04:00)
  • This is consistent across Palestinian political factions and official documents.

Discrepancies in Messaging (English vs. Arabic)

• Protest Signs:
  • “There have been protests multiple times... in which the English sign said, ‘from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.’ And the Arabic sign next to it said, ‘from the river to the sea, Palestine will be Arab.’” (05:15)
  • The Arabic phrasing aligns with pan-Arab nationalist traditions dating back to Nasser.

Central Issue: Existence of a Jewish State

• Not About Civic Coexistence:
  • “It’s not about civic democracy, it’s about the Jews losing a state. And this is core. This is core to what’s happening.” (06:00)
• Haviv’s Challenge:
  • He distinguishes between Palestinian independence (“a great many Israelis agree with you... even if they don’t know how to get there”) and the erasure of Israel.
  • The deeper meaning is often about the destruction of Israel rather than coexistence.

“Code” and Unintended Meanings

• Obfuscation:
  • “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is code, but it’s not code that everyone who yells it understands... It is code for something else. And that something else... is most of the time, the destruction of Israel.” (07:40)
• Western Disconnect:
  • The slogan’s “civic” interpretation is presented predominantly to outsiders, not local Palestinians.

Palestinians’ Views and Lived Realities

• On the Ground:
  • Haviv cites ordinary Palestinians in Jerusalem who “will tell you that has nothing to do with them.” (08:55)
• The Slogan’s Real Audience:
  • “It’s about you talking to yourself in the mirror about your own moral emotions.” (09:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ambiguity of online questions:

  “I frankly don’t know who you are... Maybe that’s the beauty of the Internet.” (00:30)

• On American exceptionalism:

  “America is the most radical version of civic democracy there has ever been, and it’s extraordinarily beautiful... And if the whole world could run like America, that might be a better world.” (03:05)

• On Palestinian statehood and constitutional content:

  “You can look this up. It [the Palestinian state] is an Arab state. It has an ethnic identification... Sharia law is a source of legislation.” (04:10)

• On protest rhetoric and translation:

  “The English sign said, ‘from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.’ And the Arabic sign next to it said, ‘from the river to the sea, Palestine will be Arab.’” (05:20)

• On what many “from the river to the sea” activists really mean:

  “The important point has nothing to do with Palestinian suffering. They can suffer for all time. The only thing that matters is the destruction of Israel, because it is an insult to my theory of the world.” (07:10)

• On the difference between rhetoric and reality:

  “If it’s not actually something Palestinians are demanding or want for themselves, then it’s about you talking to yourself in the mirror about your own moral emotions.” (09:20)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 — Definition of “from the river to the sea”; Geographical boundaries
• 01:20 — Critique of two-state solutions; single-entity advocacy
• 02:45 — Civic democracy interpretation and its American roots
• 03:25 — Western progressive misconceptions vs. reality
• 04:00 — Constitutional basis for an ethnically-defined Palestinian state
• 05:15 — Protest signs and hesitation in translating intentions
• 06:00 — Focus on the erasure of Israel as the core motif
• 07:40 — “From the river to the sea” as code for Israel’s destruction
• 08:55 — Palestinian voices: Disconnection from Western slogans
• 09:20 — The slogan as a reflection of outsider moral concerns, not local desires

Conclusion

Haviv Rettig Gur delivers an incisive, nuanced breakdown of the slogan “From the river to the sea,” exposing the stark differences in interpretation between Western activists and Palestinians themselves. He underscores the phrase’s historical roots, the lack of support among Palestinians for a purely civic democracy, and how the slogan is often a euphemism for the end of Jewish statehood. Throughout, Haviv challenges listeners to confront the realities behind political slogans and to question the narratives they unwittingly perpetuate.