Episode Summary: "What Did John the Baptist Mean When He Said Jesus Would ‘Baptize with Fire’?"

Podcast: Ask Ligonier
Host: Ligonier Ministries
Guest: Dr. W. Robert Godfrey, Chairman of Ligonier Ministries
Date: August 7, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Ask Ligonier, Dr. W. Robert Godfrey addresses a question submitted by a listener: “What did John the Baptist mean when he said Jesus would baptize with fire?” Dr. Godfrey unpacks the biblical context, symbolism, and theological implications of John the Baptist's statement, exploring how it points to both salvation and judgment, and its significance for Christian baptism today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

John's Baptism vs. Jesus’ Baptism

• John's baptism with water:

  • Symbolic and preparatory in nature
  • Meant to show people's need for cleansing and point to the coming Messiah
  • Not efficacious in itself (“My water is symbolic. My water is preparatory. My water says, you need to be washed.” — Dr. Godfrey, 00:32)

• Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire:

  • Jesus brings not a symbol, but the reality

The Meaning of “Baptize with Fire”

• “Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” (00:51)

• Two outcomes of encountering Jesus:

  • Positive outcome:
    • For those who respond in faith, this is the work of the Holy Spirit, signifying regeneration and salvation (01:12)
    • “Where there's faith, that's a sign that he's baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (01:35)
  • Negative outcome:
    • For those who reject or resist Christ (such as the Pharisees), the “baptism with fire” points to judgment (01:41)
    • “Where there's resistance and rejection, as the Pharisees rejected him, there will be a baptism of fire, which is judgment.” (01:48)

• The fire specifically represents God’s judgment that falls on those who refuse the gospel (02:00)

• The distinction presented by John: acceptance of Christ leads to new life by the Spirit, while rejection leads to judgment (02:09)

Implications for Christian Baptism

• Call to faith:
  • Christian baptism continues to call people to faith in the Gospel and highlights the two possible outcomes: renewal or judgment (02:22)
• Greater responsibility:
  • Scripture indicates that judgment is more severe on those who receive the message and refuse to respond (02:39)
• Historical insight:
  • The Pharisees rejected John’s baptism because they saw it as necessary only for Gentiles, not for themselves (“The Pharisees were insistent that they were not filthy and therefore did not need to be washed, and were precisely rejecting the preaching of John and of Jesus.” — 03:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the symbol and reality of baptism:
  “I'm giving you the symbol and the water, but Messiah will bring the reality.” — Dr. W. Robert Godfrey (00:44)

• On the Holy Spirit and faith:
  “Only by the Holy Spirit can we respond, can our hearts be regenerated? Can we have faith?” — Dr. Godfrey (01:18)

• On the seriousness of gospel rejection:
  “Judgment is more severe on those who heard and had opportunity to respond. So this is a very, very serious issue.” — Dr. Godfrey (02:46)

• On the Pharisees’ rejection:
  “The Pharisees were insistent that they were not filthy and therefore did not need to be washed, and were precisely rejecting the preaching of John and of Jesus.” — Dr. Godfrey (03:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:04: Question introduction — “What did John the Baptist mean when he said Jesus would baptize with fire?”
• 00:27–01:12: Dr. Godfrey distinguishes John’s water baptism from the Messiah’s real baptism
• 01:12–01:50: The ministry of Jesus: Spirit for some, judgment (“fire”) for others
• 02:22–02:59: Application to Christian baptism and the unique rejection by the Pharisees

Episode Takeaways

• John’s baptism highlights our need for cleansing and points to Christ, whose coming would bring the true baptism: the transforming work of the Holy Spirit, or, for those who reject Him, the fire of judgment.
• The phrase “baptize with fire” serves as a warning and a call to heed the Gospel, making the response to Christ a matter of eternal consequence.