Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Ask Ligonier

Episode: What Does It Mean That Jesus Is "Where Two or Three Are Gathered" in His Name?
Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Nathan W. Bingham
Guest: Rev. Joel Kim
Context: Live from Ligonier’s 2025 National Conference

Episode Overview

This episode tackles a frequently asked question about Matthew 18:20—"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." Host Nathan W. Bingham and guest Rev. Joel Kim explore the true meaning of this verse, clarifying its context and correcting common misunderstandings. The conversation centers on biblical discipline, church gatherings, and the intent behind Jesus' words.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Common Use of the Verse

• Many Christians cite Matthew 18:20 to affirm God’s presence in small gatherings or worship, especially in house churches or areas under persecution.
  • Rev. Kim: “I've been a part of a number of church plants... often quietly, so others cannot hear. And it's encouragement in many ways to be able to say that the Lord is present even among the gathering of two or three people.” (00:30)

2. “Right Doctrine from the Wrong Text”

• The belief in God’s presence in any gathering of believers is biblically sound.
• However, Rev. Kim emphasizes this particular verse is not primarily addressing general worship meetings.
  • Rev. Kim: “That is, the understanding is biblical, but probably not arising from that particular text.” (01:07)

3. The Context: Church Discipline (Matthew 18)

• Context is essential for correct interpretation.
• Matthew 18 discusses steps for church discipline—how to address a sinning brother.
• The process: address privately, then take witnesses, then bring it to the church, and finally treat unrepentant individuals as outsiders if they refuse correction.
  • Rev. Kim: “The context is about discipline... with the intention of correction and restoration.” (01:18)
  • Rev. Kim: “Discipline is not about punishing someone. It's about the desired effect of restoring that person to the Lord's care.” (01:32)

4. Jesus’ Assurance to the Church

• The promise of Jesus' presence (“where two or three are gathered…”) specifically assures church leaders and participants that He is with them when they are faithfully administering discipline.
  • Rev. Kim: “In that context Jesus’ words end with this particular understanding: that whatever is bound on earth will be bound in heaven... when two or three gather, right, Jesus is among them.” (02:31)
  • Rev. Kim: “The context is to remind us that Jesus is present in the activity of the church as it continues to labor to minister... in this case, correction.” (02:45)

5. Extended (but Secondary) Implications

• While the passage’s main point is church discipline, it can indirectly encourage those in small worship gatherings.
  • Rev. Kim: “Does that indicate to us when two or three gather and worship, the Lord is there? Yes, and there can be a far implication as a result of that. But that's not the initial or the clear intent of the text.” (03:23)
  • Rev. Kim: “In this particular text, it's about the Lord's promise to apply and be present and provide wisdom when this particular activity the church is engaged by the leaders and the individuals.” (03:37)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Misapplying the Verse:

  • “We talk about in seminaries the right doctrine from the wrong text. That is, the understanding is biblical, but probably not arising from that particular text.” – Rev. Joel Kim, (01:07)

• On the Purpose of Discipline:

  • “At the end of the day, discipline is not about punishing someone. It's about the desired effect of restoring that person to the Lord's care.” – Rev. Joel Kim, (01:32)

• On Correct Context:

  • “The context is to remind us that Jesus is present in the activity of the church as it continues to labor to minister to them—in this case, correction. And what we're encouraged by is that the Lord's promise is that He's going to be there with us even as we fumblingly administer the teachings of the Word to the various individuals.” – Rev. Joel Kim, (02:45)

• On Encouragement for Small Gatherings:

  • “Grateful that the Lord's presence is there when two or three gather in worship. But in this particular text, it's about the Lord's promise to apply and be present and provide wisdom when this particular activity the church is engaged by the leaders and the individuals.” – Rev. Joel Kim, (03:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:30] – Rev. Kim’s introduction to the verse’s common usage and encouragement for small fellowships.
• [01:07] – “Right doctrine from the wrong text”; principle emphasized.
• [01:18] – Detailed breakdown of Matthew 18’s context of church discipline.
• [02:31] – Explanation of “binding and loosing” and Jesus’ presence.
• [03:23] – Discussing the extended but not primary meaning for worship gatherings.
• [03:37] – Final clarification on the Lord’s promise in church discipline contexts.

Conclusion

Rev. Joel Kim clarifies a commonly misapplied verse, restoring its specific comforting context for church leaders and members practicing biblical discipline. While the assurance of God’s presence in small or persecuted gatherings is scriptural, Matthew 18:20’s focus is on Jesus’ promise to guide and affirm the church as it seeks restoration, correction, and care for its members.