Podcast Summary: Ask NT Wright Anything #225

Title: Will animals go to heaven? Are NDEs real? Is there 'free will' in heaven? (Classic)
Host: Justin Brierley
Guest: Tom Wright
Release Date: July 11, 2024

Introduction

In episode #225 of Ask NT Wright Anything, host Justin Brierley revisits the archives to engage with listener-submitted questions on profound theological topics. The episode features renowned theologian Tom Wright, who delves into subjects such as the concept of new creation, the reality of heaven, near-death experiences (NDEs), free will in the afterlife, and the place of animals in heaven.

New Creation and Understanding Heaven

Listener Question:
Priscilla from Michigan, aged 72, expresses fears about death and questions the reality of heaven, wondering about the fate of her loved ones and whether she is losing her faith.

Tom Wright’s Insights:

Tom Wright begins by addressing Priscilla's fears and emphasizes that questioning faith does not equate to losing it. He states:

“God has given us minds to inquire. Although as G.K. Chesterton said, the purpose of an open mind is like the purpose of an open mouth, namely to shut it again on something solid.”
[00:52]

Wright challenges the traditional Western notion of heaven as a separate, ethereal realm. Instead, he introduces the concept of new creation, where heaven and earth are unified in a transformed reality. He explains:

“The God who made the world wants to bring heaven and earth together and to come and live with us in that new creation.”
[04:31]

He further elaborates that the Bible's ultimate promise is not about ascending to a distant heaven but experiencing a heaven-earth combination where creation is renewed and glorified. Wright underscores the mystery between death and the final new creation, noting that the Bible remains vague on this interim state.

Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)

Listener Question:
Brett from Atlanta inquires about the credibility of near-death experiences where individuals claim to have seen heaven, especially when these accounts come from credible, educated individuals.

Tom Wright’s Response:

Wright shares a personal anecdote about a former student who experienced an NDE and felt a calling to ministry upon returning to life. He reflects:

“We are not given in this life a kind of actual portrait of what the future will be. ... It may well be that God is giving these people a vision that whatever happens to them, he will love them.”
[18:12]

He cautions against using NDEs to validate conventional Western concepts of heaven, reiterating that the biblical narrative focuses on new creation rather than individual heavenly realms. Wright emphasizes that while NDEs might provide comfort, they do not replace the scriptural understanding of the afterlife.

Free Will and Love in the New Earth

Listener Question:
Michelle De Witt poses a dual question regarding resurrection:

1. If our physical bodies have decayed, how will we be reconstituted in the resurrection?
2. In the new world, how will free will operate without permitting sin?

Tom Wright’s Reflections:

On the resurrection of the dead, Wright addresses the philosophical puzzle of identity over time, likening it to the continuous renewal of our physical cells:

“We are to that extent like the curve in a waterfall. There is continuity of form but discontinuity of matter.”
[11:07]

He reassures that resurrection entails God providing an “appropriate body” that remains recognizably ourselves but is gloriously transformed:

“There will be an immortal physicality ... there will be an abundance of all sorts of creatures being gloriously themselves.”
[13:24]

Regarding free will, Wright distinguishes between true freedom and the misconception that free will equates to the ability to sin. He explains:

“In a true relationship of love, there is wonderful freedom. But the freedom is not freedom to hurt them... Sin is a form of slavery.”
[14:23]

He contends that in the new creation, freedom will align with God’s love, fostering a world where genuine creativity and relational love flourish without the descent into sin.

Animals in Heaven

Listener Questions:

1. Kaden asks whether pets and wildlife will be recognizable in the new earth or if God will recreate them anew.
2. William from Seattle seeks comfort for her grieving 11-year-old daughter, questioning if animals have souls and if she will see her dog again in heaven.

Tom Wright’s Answers:

Wright notes that the Bible does not explicitly address animals in heaven, as the concept is framed within a modern understanding of souls, which the New Testament does not support. He offers a compassionate and hopeful perspective:

“If God the Creator made a world which included giraffes and whales and grasshoppers... it is likely that there will be an abundance of all sorts of creatures being gloriously themselves and sharing in all kinds of relationships.”
[29:25]

He affirms that personal bonds with animals could transcend into the new creation, allowing relationships with beloved pets to continue:

“There will be a little girl... who will recognize among the plethora of delighted creatures a dog to whom she gave love and companionship.”
[32:01]

Evil and Eschatology

Listener Question:
Tim from Atlanta references the TV series Good Omens and asks Wright’s opinion on its portrayal of eschatology, where evil does not ultimately need to be defeated to preserve the world’s goodness.

Tom Wright’s Perspective:

Although Wright has not engaged directly with Good Omens, he responds by reflecting on historical and contemporary manifestations of evil:

“We have seen immense evil... World Wars, the rise of Islamism as a modern phenomenon, climate change... It’s extraordinary that anyone would say the world is pretty much okay as it is now.”
[21:54]

He criticizes simplistic views that deny the profound presence of evil, advocating for a balanced understanding that acknowledges both the beauty and the brokenness of the world. Wright emphasizes that Christian eschatology recognizes the struggle against evil while anticipating a restored creation.

God’s Role in New Creation

Listener Insight:
Justin raises a question about the extent of human versus divine effort in realizing the new creation, cautioning against overly human-centric interpretations that ignore supernatural intervention.

Tom Wright’s Clarification:

Wright rejects the dichotomy between natural and supernatural, asserting that God’s actions encompass both. He asserts the necessity of a Trinitarian approach, where God works through human beings via the Holy Spirit:

“God does what God wants to do... through wise, obedient human beings. How do wise, obedient human beings get to be wise, obedient human beings? Through the work of the Spirit based on the death and resurrection of Christ.”
[26:39]

He cautions against secular interpretations that attribute new creation solely to human ingenuity, highlighting the essential role of divine grace and transformation.

Conclusion

In this episode, Tom Wright provides thoughtful and nuanced answers to complex questions about the afterlife, emphasizing the biblical concept of new creation over traditional notions of heaven. He offers comfort regarding fears of death, addresses the mysterious nature of resurrection, and affirms the potential for meaningful relationships with animals in the renewed world. Wright also engages with contemporary portrayals of eschatology, reaffirming the Christian hope in the face of pervasive evil. Throughout the discussion, he maintains a balance between acknowledging the limits of human understanding and trusting in God’s transformative power.

Notable Quotes:

• Tom Wright on New Creation:
  “The God who made the world wants to bring heaven and earth together and to come and live with us in that new creation.”
  [04:31]

• On Resurrection and Identity:
  “We are to that extent like the curve in a waterfall. There is continuity of form but discontinuity of matter.”
  [11:07]

• On Free Will in the New Earth:
  “Sin is a form of slavery. And so the notion of free will is a bit more complicated than we normally think.”
  [14:23]

• On Animals in Heaven:
  “There will be a little girl... who will recognize among the plethora of delighted creatures a dog to whom she gave love and companionship.”
  [29:25]

Resources Mentioned:

• Premier Unbelievable: www.premierunbelievable.com
• Subscribe for More Episodes and Resources: Visit premierunbelievable.com
• Free Ebook: Does It Make Sense to Believe in God? available at premierinsight.org

This summary captures the essence of Episode #225 of Ask NT Wright Anything, highlighting the thoughtful dialogue between Justin Brierley and Tom Wright on profound theological questions. It serves as a comprehensive guide for those who have not listened to the episode but seek to understand the key discussions and insights shared.