Ask N.T. Wright Anything – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Can Christians Serve Unjust Governments?
Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Mike Bird
Guest: N.T. (Tom) Wright

Overview

This episode centers around three complex questions from listeners:

1. Can Christians serve in unjust governments while remaining faithful?
2. What is the real relationship between the Old and New Covenants?
3. What is the current state of Anglicanism, and why are people drawn to it?

Mike Bird and Tom Wright provide thoughtful, scripture-grounded, and historically informed perspectives, blending biblical scholarship with pastoral sensitivity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can Christians Serve in Unjust Governments?

[01:47 – 11:47]

Scriptural Foundations

• Tom Wright grounds the discussion in John 19, where Jesus acknowledges Pilate's authority:

  “You wouldn’t have any power over me unless it was given you from above.” (03:27)

  • Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, recognizes the legitimate yet flawed authority of a corrupt Roman governor.
  • The Bible doesn't strictly separate authorities into good or bad; it shows a "dense mixture" where God desires order over anarchy.

Biblical Examples

• Paul and Civil Authority:
  • Paul affirms the God-given role of magistrates (e.g., Acts in Philippi) but reminds them of their responsibilities (05:15).
• Naaman & Elisha (2 Kings 5):
  • Naaman, a Syrian officer, is allowed some flexibility in serving a pagan king:

    “...Elisha says to him, go in peace. That’s extraordinary...” (07:12)

• Gehazi’s Contrasting Story:
  • Elisha’s own servant, acting dishonestly, is condemned, highlighting the glass-half-full/empty tension in complex situations (08:45).

Nuance and Conscience

• Not all roles in unjust systems mean the sin lies with the function itself; the line is crossed when one is compelled to go against conscience or enact evil.
• Christians have a “higher allegiance” but are called to be good citizens until conscience is violated (Romans 13, 1 Peter 2).

Memorable Quotes

• Tom Wright:

  “Anarchy is even worse than tyranny… under anarchy, the bullies and the bad guys always win.” (04:09)
  “Do I say, ‘I need to go along with this,’ or ‘I need to hand in my ticket for the job?’” (06:51)

• Mike Bird:

  “You can't obey unlawful commands. And I think it's the same in government. You can obey the government in law, in order, but if you're forced to do something immoral or illegal, you simply have to refuse.” (10:25)

2. Old and New Covenants – How Did They Transition?

[11:48 – 20:39]

Listener Question

• How should we understand the transition from the Old to the New Covenant? Did it happen at the cross, or was it complete only after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD? (11:48)

Scriptural and Theological Analysis

• Tom Wright:
  • The New Covenant is prophesied in Jeremiah, addressed by Jesus at the Last Supper, and discussed in Hebrews, which emphasizes fulfillment in Jesus (13:31).
  • Paul (especially Galatians 3–4) sees the Mosaic covenant as “temporary”; the Abrahamic covenant is the larger framework now fulfilled in Christ.
  • Paul and Hebrews both maintain continuity—emphasizing a “now and not yet” overlap.
  • The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is a dramatic fulfillment, but the New Covenant began at Jesus’ death and resurrection.

Key Takeaways

• Avoid rigid separation:

  “I would beware of over-structuring… There’s the old, there’s the new, and then having to ask questions on that basis.” (16:46)

• The Mosaic Law’s purpose was "time-limited" and “set aside not because it was a bad thing… but because it was a good thing whose job has been done.” (20:16)

Memorable Moment

• Mike jokingly suggests their next book should be called “The Climax of the Covenant.” (18:14)
• Tom references a conversation with Richard Hays on translating Paul’s phrase telos nomou ("end/completion/fulfillment of the law"). (18:39)

3. Anglicanism: Its Strengths, Struggles & Its Current Draw

[23:36 – 38:52]

Listener Question

• Why, despite Anglicanism’s messy politics, are many drawn to it today? What are its core strengths and growing pains, especially in the global context? (23:36)

Tom Wright’s Perspective

• Liturgy and Worship:

  “What attracts people is that instead of the chaos of having different worship leaders jumping up and down... you have an ordering which is basically a presentation... [of the] whole of the scriptural story every time we worship.” (27:51)

• Rootedness in Scripture:
  • Anglican liturgy’s systematic public reading of scripture is highlighted.
  • Absence of this in other traditions is a concern:

    “One of the things I’ve worried about... some quite conservative Baptist churches... sometimes whole services where there is no public reading of scripture.” (29:46)

• Authority and Unity:
  • A core challenge is the lack of a central authority, contrasting with Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox, leading to disunity and fragmentation.
  • Anglicanism’s vision:

    “Authority which means that we know that we are part of the same family as those people two continents away... That’s been under strain for a long time...” (31:16)

  • The Communion continues to offer a way of “being faithful,” grounded in scripture and unity amidst disagreement.

Mike Bird on Modern Appeal

• Liturgy is “very attractive” to many raised on more entertainment-driven worship:

  “If you've been raised on a sort of church service, which is effectively a TED Talk and a Coldplay concert... and then you encounter the Book of Common Prayer... you feel like you are getting a glimpse into the worship of heaven...” (33:37)

• Anglicanism as a “via media”—a reformed, not pseudo-Catholic, tradition, with deep historical roots.

Reform Wishlists

• Mike Bird:

  • With “unlimited power,” he would convene bishops to articulate a Christian statement of human identity (covering gender, sexuality, transhumanism), requiring unity around it (35:54).
  • Free copies of Tom Wright’s commentaries for bishops suggested as helpful resources!

• Tom Wright:

  • Addresses the difficulty of unity without a pope, the mixed effectiveness of Anglican gatherings like the Lambeth Conference, and the growing global reality:

    “The average Anglican... is black and does not speak English as her mother tongue.” (37:56)

Praiseworthy Quotes

• Tom Wright:

  “As long as we have that liturgy, we are in a position to say we are celebrating the scriptural life and truth focused on Jesus himself. And if we can do that, this is a way of being faithful...” (33:00)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Anarchy is even worse than tyranny...under anarchy, the bullies and the bad guys always win."
  — Tom Wright, [04:09]

• "You can't obey unlawful commands. And I think it's the same in government…"
  — Mike Bird, [10:25]

• “The Mosaic covenant was a good thing, which was time limited. And the time has now fully come, he says in Galatians 4, 6.”
  — Tom Wright, [15:32]

• “Liturgy… is basically a presentation of Scripture… we are celebrating the whole of the scriptural story every time we worship.”
  — Tom Wright, [27:51]

• “If you've been raised on… a TED Talk and a Coldplay concert… and then you encounter the Book of Common Prayer… you feel like you are getting a glimpse into the worship of heaven…”
  — Mike Bird, [33:37]

Recurring Timestamps and Segments

• 01:47 – 11:47: Can Christians serve unjust governments?
• 11:48 – 20:39: Old vs. New Covenants
• 23:36 – 38:52: Anglicanism’s appeal, liturgy, and global state

Tone and Approach

Familiar, theologically rich, occasionally humorous, and always pastorally grounded. The hosts invite deep scriptural and historical reflection, asking provocative questions without easy answers, and maintaining warmth even when discussing contentious issues.

Summary for the Listener

If you’re wrestling with serving faithfully under problematic authorities, trying to understand how the Old and New Covenants relate, or are curious about the ongoing appeal (and messiness) of Anglicanism, this episode is a gold mine of wisdom and practical guidance. Tom and Mike combine rigorous biblical scholarship with lived experience to produce a reflection that is as rooted in scripture as it is alert to the complexities of real life.

End of Summary.