Episode Summary: "Did Jesus Know He Was Divine?"

Ask NT Wright Anything – August 31, 2025
Host: Mike Bird | Guest: Tom Wright (NT Wright)

Overview:

This episode explores some of the most profound questions at the heart of Christian theology: Did Jesus know he was God? What’s the place of contemplative spirituality in the Christian walk, and how should Christians understand “sacred” places? NT Wright (Tom Wright) unpacks these issues, challenging conventional assumptions and rooting his answers in Scripture, early Christian tradition, and personal experience.

1. Did Jesus Know He Was Divine?

(Main segment begins at 03:10)

Key Points:

• Question Origin:
  Listener Bill Coombe (Dubai) asks Tom Wright to clarify his view (articulated in Simply Christian) that Jesus’ self-knowledge was more akin to vocational awareness than straightforward self-perception ("cold/hot, happy/sad").

• Tom’s Response & Challenge to Assumptions:

  • The typical Western, conservative approach assumes an all-powerful, distant “God” whom Jesus simply slots into:

    "Did Jesus know he was that being?... as though actually Jesus is just pretending to be human." (06:06, Tom Wright)

  • New Testament presents Jesus as deeply, authentically human:
    • He weeps, experiences anguish, and cries out, "My God, why did you abandon me?"
    • These experiences must be held together with the Church’s confession of Jesus’ divinity in the Nicene Creed.
  • Redefinition of "God" Through Jesus:
    • Instead of fitting Jesus into a pre-determined box of “God”, the New Testament invites believers to let Jesus redefine the very concept of God:

    “If you think you can have a picture of God, fit Jesus into it, think again, hold on to possibilities about who God might be and redesign them around this man.” (11:47, Tom Wright)

  • Vocation, Risk, and Divine Identity:
    • Jesus’ awareness was vocational and risky, not play-acting: He enacted the role of God as humble, suffering, and vulnerable.
    • The experience of going to the cross—marked by profound uncertainty and trust—shows the redefinition:

      “Jesus must have known again and again throughout his life... especially going to the cross, that he might just be deluded, that it is failed messiahs who end up on crosses.” (10:52, Tom Wright)

• Notable Analogy:
  Tom shares a family anecdote about his grandson confusing “divine” (as in delicious dessert) with theological “divine”—highlighting the problem of language and expectations (05:18).

• Scriptural Examples:

  • Mark quoting Malachi & Isaiah: the fulfillment of Israel’s God returning to Zion is seen in Jesus’ humble arrival.
  • Philippians 2 and the Gospels: present a redefinition of what “God” means.

• Summing Up:

  • The question "Did Jesus know he was God?" should be reversed and reframed:

    “You could equally turn the question around the other way and say, did God know he was Jesus?” (07:00, Tom Wright)

  • The heart of Christian confession is seeing God through Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.

Notable Quotes:

• On redefining God:

  “Everything [Jesus] did and said was a reinterpretation of what the word God actually means.” (09:30, Tom Wright)

• On the risk and reality of Jesus’ knowledge:

  “It is a matter of vocation. Jesus must have known again and again throughout his life, and especially going to the cross, that he might just be deluded... But of course, Psalm 22, which is there quoted, begins with My God. And somehow we have to get our heads and our hearts around that.” (10:52, Tom Wright)

• On approaching the cross:

  “When we kneel at the foot of the cross, when we gaze in awe at the empty tomb and thank God for the resurrection of Jesus, maybe we start to see who God really is.” (11:30, Tom Wright)

2. Contemplative Spiritual Practices

(Segment starts at 14:53)

Key Points:

• Questions from Rhys (Kentucky) & Shaq (Pittsburgh):

  • Is contemplative prayer (e.g., Jesus Prayer, Anglican rosary) acceptable?
  • How can a spiritual director wisely anchor contemplative practices in the face of diverse spiritual influences and personal experiences?

• Tom’s Perspective:

  • Individuality & Change Over Time:

    • Spiritual practices aren’t “one size fits all”—people’s spiritual needs and temperaments change with age and circumstance.

      "What's suitable for a teenager may not be suitable for a 20 or 30s... or when they're 50, 60, 70." (18:01, Tom Wright)

  • Variety in Practice:

    • Tom’s own life includes daily Bible reading and prayer, the Anglican daily office, and at times, Ignatian meditation.
    • Encouragement to “lighten up”—no single rule for all.

    • "Let a thousand flowers bloom as long as Jesus is right there in the middle of the garden." (23:48, Tom Wright)

  • Christian Distinctives:

    • Spiritual practices are valid if Christ-centered and Trinitarian.

    "Always Jesus at the center, invoke the Spirit to the glory of God the Father, and then see what patterns are going to emerge..." (24:25, Tom Wright)

    • Useful to get a wise spiritual director.

  • Discernment re: Other Traditions:

    • While Paul teaches that God hasn’t left Himself without witness outside of Christianity (Acts 10–11), the focus must always be on Jesus.
    • Some practices from other traditions may intersect with Christian insight, but discernment and a Christ-centered anchor are vital.

  • On Bodily Practice:

    • Personal note on kneeling versus yoga; emphasizes the biblical value of bodily posture in prayer:

      "When I'm kneeling, I am not in control of the world anymore. I am resigning any sense that I'm manipulating anything. I am humble and open." (26:08, Tom Wright quoting Eugene Peterson)

    • Encouragement to rediscover postures like kneeling, standing, and prostration.

Notable Quotes:

• "Many styles for many occasions, for many people. Let a thousand flowers bloom as long as Jesus is right there in the middle of the garden." (23:48, Tom Wright)
• "Lighten up, guys, it's okay... but always Jesus at the center, invoke the Spirit to the glory of God the Father." (24:25, Tom Wright)
• "Sitting down is the one posture which is not adopted in the Bible or in the early church for prayer." (26:21, Tom Wright)

3. Holy Places, Sacred Spaces, and “Thin Places”

(Segment starts at 29:24)

Key Points:

• Listener Trevor Betts (Belfast) asks about the theology of God’s presence: Is God more present in certain places? What about “thin places,” or even spaces associated with evil/demonic activity?

• Tom’s ‘Both/And’ Response:

  • Tom recounts having little theology of sacred spaces growing up—he was “anti-buildings.”

  • Personal Experience:

    • As an adult, unexpectedly, Tom began sensing God’s presence in certain places—empty churches, ancient monasteries, pilgrimage sites (e.g., Lindisfarne, Iona, the Holy Sepulchre).
    • These experiences challenged his earlier resistance to the idea of sacred space.

  • Theological Insight:

    • New Testament View: God no longer “lives” in a unique building; His presence is accessible everywhere.
    • Purpose of Sacred Places:
      • “Sacred sites” serve not to exclude the world, but as bridgeheads—foretastes of God’s intent to fill all creation with His glory.
      • Long history of prayer and worship in a place may leave a "liturgical memory," creating an openness to God’s presence.

  • “Thin Places” & the Memory of Prayer:

    • Tom shares stories of sensing God’s presence in various places, even those no longer used for worship (e.g., an old church-turned-school hall in Montreal).
    • Sites like Westminster Abbey or Iona provide “foretastes” of the time when “the whole earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.”

  • Evil & Dark Places:

    • Tom believes that places can bear memories both good and dark.
    • Experience of “darkness” or evil in places associated with idolatry, violence, or traumatic events (e.g., ancient amphitheaters, sites of execution).
    • Christians are called to discern such places, invoke Christ, and avoid being overwhelmed:

      "If that feels impossible in a place, then get out..." (43:07, Tom Wright)

  • Wisdom & Humility:

    • Even great cathedrals can become spiritually dark if distorted by pride or manipulation.
    • Core advice: Stay rooted in Jesus, invoke the Spirit, and be attentive to what brings God glory.

Notable Quotes:

• "A sacred place [is] a foretaste of and a pointer to God's eventual claim on the whole world... it's like a small sacred bridgehead into the world." (35:09, Tom Wright)
• "Some of the great big cathedrals and shrines can themselves become very dark... the great spiritual places have also got the capacity to go sour, to go wrong." (41:35, Tom Wright)
• "Wherever we are, we can say, whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. If that feels impossible in a place, then get out." (43:07, Tom Wright)

4. Final Remarks

(43:22 and onward)

• Fun Final Exchange: Mike jokes about Tom not feeling darkness in the House of Lords:

  "Well, Tom, I'm glad to hear that you didn't have that feeling of darkness when visiting the House of Lords or the House of Commons." (43:22, Mike Bird)

• Listener Invitation:

  • Send future questions via askntwright.com.
  • Bonus episodes on Acts and theological controversies for subscribers.

Episode Takeaways:

• Jesus’ divinity must be understood as redefined by his life, death, and vocation—not by superimposing modern or classical definitions of “God.”
• Spiritual practices should be personal, evolving, and Christ-centered, not uniform; diversity in prayer and worship is healthy if anchored in the Trinity.
• Sacred (and dark) places are a real phenomenon; prayer and worship can significantly mark locations, but encounter with God is ultimately personal and not limited to place.

Memorable Moment:
Tom’s grandson on "Did Jesus know he was divine?":

“Did Jesus know he was yummy?” (05:34, Tom Wright)

Best Summary Quote:

“Let a thousand flowers bloom as long as Jesus is right there in the middle of the garden.” (23:48, Tom Wright)

End of Episode