Ask NT Wright Anything Podcast Summary Episode: God’s Word, Human Words, and Political Idols Release Date: July 20, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Ask NT Wright Anything, hosted by Mike Bird from Ridley College, Melbourne, Australia, and featuring the esteemed theologian Tom Wright from Oxford, the conversation delves into pressing theological and political questions facing contemporary Christianity. Skipping over the introductory advertisements, the episode zeroes in on three main topics: Christian nationalism in America, the theological understanding of the Bible as the Word of God, and the complex doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement.

1. Christian Nationalism in America Discussion Timeframe: [01:31] – [09:39]

Question Posed by Simon Brook: Tom, I live in the USA and am heartbroken and shocked that a majority of the evangelicals here support a Christian nationalism that seems antithetical to Christ's teachings. What has happened and what can be done best?

Tom Wright’s Response: Tom Wright provides a comprehensive analysis of the rise of Christian nationalism among American evangelicals. Drawing from decades of observation and personal experience, he notes:

“The word evangelical basically means what it meant when I was a kid, which was somebody who believes firmly in the authority of scripture and the supremacy and authority of Scripture, and somebody who believes firmly in the death of Jesus, Jesus Christ in our place on our behalf, to save us from our sins” ([02:41]).

He contrasts the traditional evangelical focus on social justice and global missions with the current alignment with political agendas, particularly highlighting the impact of figures like Donald Trump. Wright critiques the intertwining of evangelicalism with issues like abortion and the so-called "woke agenda," arguing that this fusion has diverted focus from core Christian teachings.

Mike Bird’s Contribution: Mike emphasizes the intrinsic theological nature of political actions:

“All politics has a theological component... we’ve got to make sure that our own theology can never be twisted and contorted, that it can go in such a direction that it can support evil” ([09:39]).

He underscores the importance of Christians critically evaluating political leaders, including those they may support, to ensure that their actions align with Christian ethics and promote a healthy civil and international order.

2. The Bible as the Word of God Discussion Timeframe: [11:23] – [20:55]

Question Posed by Honest Rodriguez: How can Christians refer to the Bible as the Word of God when it contains both divine inspiration and human elements, some of which are flawed or even contradictory? Additionally, how does this relate to Jesus as the Word made flesh?

Tom Wright’s Response: Tom delves deep into the nuanced relationship between divine authority and human authorship in the Bible. He cautions against simplistic interpretations and emphasizes a holistic approach:

“The Bible read as a whole, and each book read as a whole, and each larger argument or psalm or whatever read as a whole. That is word from God for God's people” ([13:47]).

Wright challenges the dichotomy of viewing the Bible solely as divine or purely human, advocating for an understanding that recognizes God's authority working through human agency. He highlights the dynamic nature of the Scriptures, where prophetic voices and narrative contexts must be interpreted collectively to grasp the overarching message of God’s revelation.

Key Insights:

• Integration of Human and Divine Elements: Scripture is portrayed as a collaborative work where God's spirit guides human authors, allowing for diverse literary styles and perspectives.
• Authority through Jesus and the Holy Spirit: The authority of the Bible is linked to Jesus’ authority, as mentioned in Matthew 28, reinforcing the idea that Scripture’s power emanates from the Trinity.
• Holistic Interpretation: Understanding the Bible requires reading it comprehensively, considering historical contexts, literary genres, and the unified narrative of creation, fall, and redemption.

Mike Bird’s Reflection: Mike connects the discussion to his own preaching, emphasizing the importance of presenting Scripture as the unfolding plan and purpose of God:

“The whole council of God... setting forth the plan and purposes of God as we have them in Holy Scripture” ([20:55]).

3. Penal Substitutionary Atonement and Teaching Theology to Children Discussion Timeframe: [24:07] – [34:07]

Question Posed by Rachel Stanton: How can I communicate the concept of substitutionary atonement to my nine-year-old granddaughter without presenting Jesus's punishment as something she deserves? Is there a better way to teach this doctrine to children?

Tom Wright’s Response: Tom addresses the complexity of conveying theological doctrines to children with sensitivity and clarity. He critiques the simplistic, transactional view of penal substitutionary atonement and offers a more holistic approach rooted in biblical narrative:

“God defeats evil on the cross, and the way he does it is by Jesus taking all the evil... to make new creation out the other side” ([25:31]).

He emphasizes the victory over evil and the role of Jesus in drawing evil away from humanity, framing the atonement not as punitive but as a transformative act that initiates the new creation. Wright suggests focusing on the broader narrative of Jesus overcoming darkness and fostering new beginnings, which is more accessible and less threatening for children.

CS Lewis Analogy: Mike brings up C.S. Lewis’s The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe as a potential tool for explaining atonement:

“CS Lewis is very good... but you can't construct a whole theology out of that book” ([32:46]).

Tom concurs, acknowledging that while metaphors like Aslan’s sacrifice can aid understanding, they should not replace comprehensive theological education.

Key Insights:

• Narrative Over Transaction: Teaching should focus on the story of Jesus overcoming evil rather than on transactional exchanges of sin for punishment.
• Victory and New Creation: Emphasizing the transformative aspect of atonement aligns better with a child’s understanding and avoids presenting a punitive theology.
• Use of Metaphors: Tools like children's Bibles and age-appropriate stories can help convey complex doctrines in an understandable manner without oversimplifying.

Conclusion

In God’s Word, Human Words, and Political Idols, Mike Bird and Tom Wright tackle intricate issues at the intersection of theology and contemporary societal challenges. From dissecting the rise of Christian nationalism in America to reexamining the nature of the Bible and the doctrine of atonement, the episode offers profound insights aimed at fostering a deeper, more nuanced understanding of faith in action. The hosts encourage listeners to engage critically with both theological concepts and their practical implications, ensuring that Christian beliefs remain true to their foundational teachings while addressing modern complexities.

Notable Quotes:

• On Evangelical Identity:
  “The word evangelical basically means... somebody who believes firmly in the authority of scripture and the supremacy and authority of Scripture...” ([02:41]).

• On Theology in Politics:
  “All politics has a theological component... we’ve got to make sure that our own theology can never be twisted and contorted...” ([09:39]).

• On the Bible’s Authority:
  “The Bible read as a whole... That is word from God for God's people.” ([13:47]).

• On Penal Substitutionary Atonement:
  “God defeats evil on the cross, and the way he does it is by Jesus taking all the evil... to make new creation out the other side.” ([25:31]).

Further Engagement

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