Ask NT Wright Anything Podcast

Episode: Help N.T. Wright! Please clarify salvation
Date: November 2, 2025
Host: Mike Bird
Guest: N.T. (Tom) Wright

Episode Overview

This episode dives into some of the thorniest questions Christians encounter about evil, paradise, and purification. The host Mike Bird and theologian N.T. Wright unpack questions on whether we should pray for Satan, the meaning of ‘paradise’ in the New Testament, and what it means to live a life of purification in the light of God’s judgment and redemption. All answers are rooted in scripture, careful theology, and Wright’s characteristically candid, nuanced style.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Should We Pray for Satan?

(01:43 – 10:53)

• Question Context: If Satan has free will, should we pray for his repentance? If not, did God create evil? Is Satan a person, cosmic power, or just a metaphor?
• N.T. Wright’s Response:
  • Distinguishes between sub-Christian mythology and biblical language: “I treat the word satanas in the New Testament as a common noun, the accuser. So I talk about the Satan and refer to this as ‘it’ rather than ‘he.’” (02:53)
  • Emphasizes that evil is an “intruder”; it does not have a logical place in God's good creation.
  • Quotes Rowan Williams: “Would it be immoral to try to solve the problem of evil?”—noting the risk of making God the author of evil if we treat evil as just another part of the cosmos. (05:59)
  • Evil, or ‘the Satan’, is dynamic, non-personal, and manifested when humans abdicate authority to powers other than God.
  • The point is to “pray, deliver us from evil,” not to imagine Satan as a being for whom we might pray for repentance.
  • The New Testament language about Satan points not to a literal person to be redeemed, but to the ongoing battle with accusing, destructive spiritual powers.

Notable Quote:

"It seems to me that the idea that the Satan, the accuser, is a being for whom one could then pray, even to get to that question, shows that we've taken a wrong turn somewhere."
— N.T. Wright (09:02)

Follow-up by Mike Bird:

• Comments on the tension between the reconciliation of all things and the vivid image of Satan’s destruction in Revelation. Are some rebellious powers reconciled, and others annihilated?

N.T. Wright’s Clarification:

• Apocalyptic language describes the total removal of evil—“there will be no snake in the new garden.”
• Cautions against literal readings of imagery like the “lake of fire.”
• The real point: “there will be no residual evil sneaking across” into the new creation. (10:44)

2. What is “Paradise” in the New Testament?

(10:53 – 20:15)

• Question from Mary Bentz (France): In Luke 23:43, Jesus tells the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise." What does ‘paradise’ mean, and where do saints go after death?
• N.T. Wright’s Response:
  • "Paradise" originally a Persian word, refers to a beautiful, restful garden—a place of refreshment, not the ultimate destination.
  • In NT context, ‘paradise’ refers to the restful intermediate state between death and resurrection.
  • Ultimate Christian hope is resurrection and new creation—not souls going to heaven.
  • Critiques Western captivity to Platonic ideas of soul: “the word resurrection is not an odd metaphor for my soul going to heaven. … We are waiting for that ultimate resurrection.” (13:47)
  • Jesus’ ‘today’ to the thief responds to the immediacy of consolation before the yet-future kingdom—"a beautiful, restful pre-resurrection place." (15:27)
  • After Jesus’ death, he enters paradise briefly before resurrection—the thief remains, awaiting new creation.
  • The Holy Spirit, who indwells believers, maintains continuity between death and resurrection:
    • "The Spirit…continues to hold that person in the presence of Jesus…until…the Spirit will give them the new body that they're promised." (16:47)
  • References to ‘paradise’ in 2 Cor 12 and Rev 2 can be read similarly: as describing the intermediate state, not the final new creation.
  • Tertullian’s "refrigerium" is discussed—not purgatory, but a refreshing rest between death and new life.

Notable Quotes:

"Paradise becomes in this passage in Luke 23 a word to denote the resting period between bodily death and bodily resurrection."
— N.T. Wright (14:53)

"The Spirit provides the continuity…and the continuity consists of our being with Jesus and ultimately in God ahead of the time when we will be raised from the dead."
— N.T. Wright (17:12)

Light-hearted Moment:

• Mike Bird jokes about "Surfers Paradise" in Australia: “In spring, that is pretty close to what I think paradise is like. Nice, warm day on the beach, plenty of sun. It’s great.” (20:24)

3. What Does it Mean to Live a Life of Purification?

(22:38 – 31:33)

• Question from Lauren Bennett (PA, USA): How should we understand purification and ‘pruning’? Is it only for believers? Does it happen now, or is it part of the final judgment?
• Mike Bird’s Recap:
  • Summarizes Wright’s teaching that the cross saves us not from God, but from what sin and darkness do to us. God’s judgment and purification aren’t punitive but redemptive—purifying all of creation.
• N.T. Wright’s Response:
  • Addresses confusion from a background in “justification by faith”: “People are taught…and I was taught, that you don’t have to do any good works thereafter.” (24:24)
  • Denies the false dichotomy between faith and the call to holiness/purification.
  • Romans 6, 8: “If by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live….” (25:47)
  • The Christian is called to holiness and purification—not to “be accepted by God,” but "by grace we can be made fit for the presence of God."
  • Temple imagery: only the pure can approach God.
  • 1 John 3: “those who have this hope purify themselves as he is pure.”
  • Purification = being shaped in Christ’s likeness by the Spirit, in anticipation of God's coming presence.
  • Purification is not punishment but preparation for fruitfulness and intimacy with God.
• Mike Bird’s Contribution:
  • Brings in the analogy of pruning from John 15, which at first is “terrifying,” but is ultimately about fruitfulness.
• N.T. Wright’s Depth:
  • Shares a story: a wise preacher told him, “when somebody is pruning the vine, that person is never closer to the vine than when carefully pruning it. … It may be because God is coming very close to us and saying gently but firmly, this has got to go.” (29:35)
  • Gardening analogy: God prunes inward-curling branches to help the rest flourish outward. “We are called to be exocentric, called to be looking out into the light and air of God’s world.”

Notable Quote:

"Every branch that already does bear fruit, God prunes that it may bear more fruit. … The word for ‘cleanse’ and the word for ‘prune’ are basically the same. So that’s the process of purification, but the point is…so that we can bear more fruit."
— N.T. Wright (31:13)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Tom Wright:

  • “Evil is an intruder. It doesn’t have a logical place within the structure.” (03:55)
  • “Pray, deliver us from evil…not hypothesizing a mythical being [Satan] and then speculating about whether we should pray for it.” (09:08)

• Mike Bird:

  • “We’re told that all things…will be reconciled or pacified. But we’re also told in Revelation that, you know, Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire.” (09:16)

• Tom Wright:

  • “Paradise…a word to denote the resting period between bodily death and bodily resurrection.” (14:53)
  • “It’s the Spirit who will raise us from the dead…who continues to hold that person in the presence of Jesus in the glory of God, until the time when that Spirit will give them the new body they’re promised.” (16:49)
  • “Holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” (26:37)
  • “When somebody is pruning the vine, that person is never closer to the vine than when carefully pruning it.” (29:35)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Should We Pray for Satan? — (01:43–10:53)
• What is Paradise? — (10:53–20:15)
• Living a Life of Purification/Pruning — (22:38–31:33)

Tone & Style

Tom Wright maintains a scholarly yet pastoral tone throughout, gently correcting misconceptions, grounding answers in biblical context, and using analogies that bring complex doctrine down to earth. Mike Bird brings warmth and relatability with humor and personal anecdotes.

Conclusion

This episode clears up major points of confusion in Christian belief:

• Satan is not a being to be redeemed, but a symbol of accusatory evil that intrudes on God's good creation.
• "Paradise" refers to the intermediate, refreshing rest for believers before resurrection—not the final hope.
• Purification is not a punishment, but God’s ongoing work to prepare us for his presence, a sign of his closeness and desire for our fruitfulness.

Listeners leave equipped to reject caricatures and embrace a robust, hope-filled view of God’s ultimate purpose in salvation.