Ask NT Wright Anything – Episode Summary

Podcast: Ask NT Wright Anything
Host: Premier Unbelievable (Mike Bird)
Episode: Is Christianity bad?! Has religion done more harm than good?
Date: December 14, 2025
Guests: N.T. (Tom) Wright

Overview

This week, Mike Bird and Tom Wright reunite in person in London to tackle especially challenging theological questions submitted by listeners. The main topics explored are:

• Is Christianity bad? — Addressing historical harms and failures within the Church while recognizing its profound influence and legacy.
• The "Son of Man" in Matthew — Does the Gospel refer to Jesus’ ascension or return, and what does Daniel 7 have to do with it?
• Why isn’t Israel saved? (Romans 9–11) — How should we understand Paul on Israel, the Church, and supersessionism?

The tone throughout is scholarly, honest, and often gently humorous, with both hosts pushing for nuance and careful attention to Biblical and historical context.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Christianity Bad? (Starts around 02:23)

Listener Question (Kevin Ewart, Boston):
How do we address the critique that Christianity has been more destructive than good—given its history of wars, colonization, slavery, and hypocrisy?

Tom Wright:

• Acknowledges the ‘litany’ of Christian wrongs: Crusades, Inquisition, colonization, and more.
  "There’s no reason to defend the Church’s record when it’s been so bad as that." (04:41)
• Calls for nuance: The deeds are from people claiming to act for the Church, not always the movement as Jesus envisioned.
• Reformation context:
  The religious conflicts (e.g., Thirty Years War) were bound up with major social and political shifts and the church’s own confusion about doctrine (e.g., purgatory) and the focus on ‘how to get to heaven’ over embodying Jesus’ teachings (e.g., Sermon on the Mount).
• Moral shifts attributable to Christianity:
  • Christianity changed the “conscience of the whole world” (e.g., horror at apartheid, abolishing slavery, condemnation of infanticide).

    “In the 50s, 60s, 70s, most of the world was appalled at the apartheid regime in Southern Africa in a way which would not have been the case 500 years earlier…” (07:11)

  • Christian values permeate even secular critiques:

    “Even the rebellion against Christianity in the Enlightenment is itself predicated partly on Christian values.” (09:30)

Mike Bird:

• Church history is “good, bad, and ugly” (references John Dickson’s Bullies and Saints).
• Secular and atheist critiques often use borrowed Christian moral standards:

  “People who think that they're an atheist, they're secular, they're simply products of a rationalist environment, they're actually riffing on Christian motifs and values in their critique of certain unchristians behavior…” (09:59)

Tom Wright:

• Secular attempts to reproduce Christian culture:

  “Trying to get the results of the gospel without paying the price of allegiance to the gospel. That's a real problem.” (11:34)

• Christianity as a resource: The vision of a society transcending divisions (race, status) originates within early Christianity (cf. Antioch), even if the church has often failed to embody it fully.

2. The ‘Coming’ of the Son of Man in Matthew (Starts around 12:43)

Listener Question (Josh McKay, Nebraska):
Does ‘coming of the Son of Man’ in Matthew refer to Jesus’ return or something else, like his ascension?

Tom Wright:

• Background: The phrase comes from Daniel 7, where “one like a son of man” is exalted beside the Ancient of Days after monsters arise from the sea.
• Key point: The Greek word can mean 'coming' or 'going'—what matters is the context.

  "The Greek word is a commonon, which could either [mean] going or coming." (13:57)

• Daniel 7 analogy: This passage depicts vindication and enthronement (not a future return to earth).
• Matthew 28 echoes Daniel 7: Jesus claims “all authority in heaven and earth”—the language of enthronement.
• Misreading Matthew 24: The ‘Olivet Discourse’ is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, not the end of the world.

  "Most people... read Matthew 24 as though it's about the second coming and the end of the world. Whereas... it's basically about the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple." (17:15)

• Jesus before Caiaphas: Jesus speaks of his vindication and enthronement “from now on,” not a distant second coming.

Mike Bird:

• Mental shift required:

  “It really does require moving the mental furniture in your head…it's exaltation, it's vindication, its enthronement—it does change a lot, but I find it just makes so much more sense.” (18:13)

• Critics of this view: Some think Tom Wright denies the second coming, which he insists is not the case.

Tom Wright:

• Jesus’ “coming on the clouds” is rich, apocalyptic metaphor, misunderstood when read literally.

  “We have turned what is a rich metaphorical scenario into flat, wooden prose.” (19:38)

3. Why Isn’t Israel Saved? (Romans 9–11) (Starts around 22:57)

Listener question (Andrew Brown, UK):
If Jesus is Messiah, why has most of Israel not believed? Is there a distinction between ‘the Israel of God’ (believing Jews) and ethnic Israelites (unbelieving Jews)? Is that a distinction Tom agrees with?

Tom Wright:

• Rejects ‘replacement’ or supersessionist theology:
  The Church (including Gentiles) does not ‘replace’ Israel; rather, God’s promises are still related to both Jews and Gentiles.

  "That's replacement theology... I and many others have argued strongly against that or anything like it..." (24:21)

• No separate path for Jews: Argues against ‘two-covenant’ or Sonderweg theory (separate saving path for Jews).
• Paul’s anguish (Romans 9–11):
  • Paul is heartbroken over his fellow Jews’ lack of belief, which wouldn’t make sense if he thought their non-Christian status was fine.
  • The text distinguishes between Israel according to the flesh and the redeemed Israel.

    "There always were two different meanings of the word Israel. Not all who are of Israel are in fact Israel." (27:34)

• The ‘remnant’: Early Messianic Jews (like Paul) prove God still keeps a faithful core, and more may be grafted in.
• Romans 11:23:

  “If they [the Jews] do not remain in unbelief, they can be grafted back in… they need to come to what Paul would regard as true Christian faith.” (30:34)

• ‘All Israel will be saved’ (Romans 11:26):
  • Tom Wright believes “all Israel” may include Gentiles as well, based on links to Galatians and Romans 2.

Mike Bird:

• Plans a bonus episode for a more in-depth discussion, particularly on supersessionism and areas where he disagrees with Tom’s interpretation of Romans 11:26.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Wright (On Christian history):

  “There’s no reason to defend the Church’s record when it’s been so bad as that. I think we need something more nuanced about how we read church history…” (04:41)

• Tom Wright (On secular values):

  “Even when people are not overtly Christian, there are sets of moral values which you can still debate, but which owe a lot of their origin and energy to the larger Christian construct.” (08:33)

• Mike Bird (On Christian influence in secular critique):

  “Even when Christianity is being critiqued, it’s usually being critiqued with Christian values.” (09:48)

• Tom Wright (On cultural imitation):

  “Trying to get the results of the gospel without paying the price of allegiance to the gospel. That's a real problem.” (11:34)

• Tom Wright (On Daniel 7 and Jesus):

  “In Daniel 7... one like a son of man is exalted to sit beside the Ancient of Days and is given authority over the nations of the world. That is such, to me, an obvious interpretation, that then it makes so much sense of all these other passages.” (14:37)

• Tom Wright (On reading apocalyptic language):

  “We have turned what is a rich metaphorical scenario into flat, wooden prose.” (19:38)

• Tom Wright (On salvation and Israel):

  “Paul does not want [Gentile Christians] to draw the conclusion that… God has cut them off, there’s no hope for them. He basically says, let's leave it up to God… but the means by which he does that will be through the Gospel.” (29:18)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:23 – Main episode introduction, in-person reunion
• 02:41 – Is Christianity Bad? Kevin’s question and Tom’s response
• 09:48 – Mike on Christian values in secular society
• 12:43 – The ‘Son of Man’ in Matthew: Josh’s question and Tom’s detailed explanation
• 19:08 – Apocalyptic language and misunderstandings
• 22:57 – Why isn’t Israel saved? Andrew’s question and Tom’s overview of Romans 9–11
• 32:56 – Plans for a deeper bonus episode on Israel and supersessionism

Conclusion

This episode tackles foundational yet controversial issues with candor and nuance. Tom Wright and Mike Bird acknowledge the historic harms done in the name of Christianity while forcefully arguing that its values have shaped much of what we now consider good, including many secular ideals. Their discussion of the ‘Son of Man’ reframes standard eschatological readings, with Tom advocating a focus on enthronement and vindication found in Daniel 7. On the complex issue of Israel’s salvation, the episode rejects both simplistic supersessionism and ‘two covenant’ theories, emphasizing the ongoing significance of Jewish-Gentile unity in the church and the eschatological mysteries still in God’s hands.

Recommended for:
Anyone grappling with the historical legacy of Christianity, wrestling with difficult biblical passages, or seeking thoughtful, historically rich Christian theology.