Jesus' Jewish identity, Paul's commands to women and Bonhoeffer's dilemma: Tom Wright answers

Summary

Ask NT Wright Anything: Detailed Episode Summary Premier Unbelievable Podcast, Hosted by Mike Bird

Episode Title: Jesus' Jewish Identity, Paul's Commands to Women and Bonhoeffer's Dilemma: Tom Wright Answers
Release Date: May 4, 2025
Host: Mike Bird
Guest: Tom Wright, Oxford University

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1. Understanding Jesus' Jewish Identity and Its Theological Significance

Timestamp: 01:33 – 09:02

In the opening discussion, Mike Bird presents a thought-provoking question from Kyle Cunningham of the United City of Temple in the United States. Kyle challenges the notion that Jesus' fulfillment as the Messiah was inherently tied to his Jewish identity, pondering whether Jesus could have emerged from any cultural context, such as Nashville or even Australia.

Tom Wright delves into this inquiry by addressing a recurring skepticism: the idea that Jesus could have been "Jesus of anywhere" provided he met certain supernatural criteria like virgin birth and a sacrificial death. Wright argues against this by tracing the biblical narrative, beginning with Genesis 12 and the call of Abraham. He emphasizes that Jesus' Jewishness is not incidental but integral to the larger divine plan for salvation.

Wright explains, "Abraham and Sarah together are the launching of God's rescue operation for the human race as a whole" (01:33). This lineage ensures that the Messiah arises from a lineage chosen to reflect God's initiative in redeeming humanity. He further explores how the prophets and Psalms reinforce this message, portraying Israel not just as a chosen nation but as a light to the nations, culminating in Jesus embodying this role.

Key Insights:

• Cultural Fulfillment: Jesus' Jewish identity fulfills specific cultural and theological expectations essential for the universal scope of salvation.
• Biblical Continuity: The narrative from Abraham through the prophets establishes a continuous thread leading to Jesus as the Messiah.
• Historical Context: Understanding Jesus within his Jewish context is crucial for grasping the intended universal mission.

Notable Quote:

"The entire biblical story is saying, this is the way by which the Creator God is working for the rescue of his whole creation." – Tom Wright (01:33)

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2. Interpreting 1 Corinthians 11: Paul's Instructions on Public Worship

Timestamp: 10:37 – 16:45

Mike Bird transitions to a challenging topic, introducing a question from Karine Wong in Hong Kong regarding 1 Corinthians 11. Karine seeks clarity on Paul's seemingly rigid instructions about public worship practices, particularly concerning head coverings and gender roles, noting Paul's assertion in verse 16: "We have no other teaching in all the churches."

Tom Wright acknowledges the complexity of this passage, recognizing that even seasoned scholars grapple with its interpretations. He posits that Paul's instructions are deeply rooted in the social and cultural perceptions of the Corinthian society, where public worship was a highly visible and scrutinized activity.

Wright contends that Paul's directives aim to maintain a clear distinction between genders in worship to prevent misunderstandings or misrepresentations by outsiders. For instance, in cultures where unveiled women were associated with immorality, Paul emphasizes head coverings to preserve the church's integrity and witness.

Key Insights:

• Cultural Sensitivity: Paul's instructions are contextually bound to the societal norms and perceptions of the Corinthian audience.
• Public Perception: Maintaining distinct gender roles in worship was crucial for the church's credibility and avoidance of scandal.
• Theological Balance: While advocating for order and propriety, Paul also respects women's roles in leading worship, highlighting a nuanced approach to gender dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"Paul intends that when men are leading in worship, they should be visibly male, and when women are leading in worship, they should be visibly female." – Tom Wright (10:37)

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3. Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Martyr or Misconstrued Figure?

Timestamp: 21:33 – 28:05

After a brief intermission, Mike Bird introduces a compelling question from David Williams of Guelph, Canada, concerning Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a revered figure among evangelicals for his anti-Nazi resistance efforts. David questions whether Bonhoeffer was rightly lauded as a Christian hero or if his legacy has been misappropriated to fit modern evangelical agendas.

Tom Wright approaches this delicate topic with caution, admitting he is not a Bonhoeffer expert but offers a thoughtful analysis. He stresses the importance of understanding Bonhoeffer within his historical and theological contexts, noting that his actions were influenced by the tumultuous environment of early 20th-century German Lutheranism and his direct experiences with the rise of Nazism.

Wright reflects on Bonhoeffer's decision to join the plot to assassinate Hitler, likening it to a moral crossroads where passive resistance seemed insufficient against profound evil. He draws an analogy to a hypothetical scenario where one must act decisively to protect loved ones from imminent harm, suggesting that Bonhoeffer's actions, while extreme, were grounded in a desperate need to halt tyranny.

Key Insights:

• Historical Context: Bonhoeffer's actions must be viewed against the backdrop of Nazi oppression and the moral imperatives of his time.
• Theological Complexity: His theological reflections grappled with the responsibilities of Christians in the face of totalitarianism.
• Moral Dilemmas: Bonhoeffer exemplifies the challenging ethical decisions leaders may face when confronting pervasive evil.

Notable Quote:

"I've never been a pacifist as such, although I do reckon that most arguments for saying this war is a just war, therefore we've got to join in. When I look at it, I've heard those arguments, and again and again I say, wait a minute, I'm not so sure about that." – Tom Wright (21:33)

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Conclusion

Tom Wright's insights throughout the episode offer a nuanced understanding of complex theological and historical questions. From elucidating Jesus' essential Jewish identity within the grand biblical narrative to unpacking the intricate directives of Paul's teachings in Corinthians, and finally, reflecting on the moral complexities faced by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Wright provides listeners with a deeper appreciation of the interplay between faith, culture, and ethical decision-making.

For those seeking further exploration of these topics and more, subscribing to the "Ask NT Wright Anything" podcast is highly recommended.

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Connect with the Hosts:

• Subscribe for Bonus Episodes: https://askntwright.supportingcast.fm
• Send Questions: askntwright.com

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Note: Timestamps correspond to key moments in the episode where the quoted material is discussed.

Transcript

[Mike Bird]

Ask Nt Write Anything is sponsored by Logos. Start going deeper in the Bible with a free [e-mail] NT this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. It if your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Don't get shut out. Blinds.com spring cyber Monday Last chance deals end soon. Elevate your window treatments while the savings last diy or let our pros handle everything from Measure to install. Blinds.com makes upgrading your home easy with free virtual consultations, honest pricing and free samples delivered to your door. Shop confidently with our 100% satisfaction guarantee. Blinds.com spring cyber Monday last chance deals are happening now. Save up to 45% sitewide plus a free measure. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. Well, hello everyone. You've joined us on the Ask nt Write Anything podcast, the program where we try to answer all your questions about the Bible, faith, Christianity and what it means to follow Jesus. I'm Mike Bird from Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia, and I'm joined, as always, by the star of our show.

[Tom Wright]

Hello, I'm Tom Wright from Oxford in England.

[Mike Bird]

And Tom, we've got another great lineup of questions. Our first one is from Kyle Cunningham in Temple of the of the United City of Temple in the United States. And he asked this. He says, hi Tom, From a critical view, the more that I study Jesus in his cultural context and in Torah, the more he seems to be the fulfillment of a specific cultural expectation rather than the Savior of the cosmos. Why did the God of the universe deem it necessary that he operate through a Jewish Messiah? Thank you for all your work that you have done and continue to do so. Tom, I could sum this up as do we need Jesus of Nazareth? What about Jesus of Nashville, you know, or, or Jesus of Nantucket? Or, you know, could Jesus have gone anywhere in the world as long as he was born of a virgin and died a violent death? I mean, could he have gone anywhere? South America, China? Maybe even somewhere exotic as Australia? What do you think, Tom?

[Tom Wright]

An Australian Jesus? Now that's a thought. I've never contemplated that before. We'll get to that. Perhaps. But this is a question which comes up again and again, and I met it Particularly in my young days, a lot of my friends would say, well, of course Jesus, he's a great teacher, maybe he died for our sins, but he gave us all this wonderful moral teaching. So he could have done that in ancient Greece, he could have done it in modern China, he could have done it in southern Africa. He didn't have to be Jewish, so why was he Jewish? And that of course grows out of a sad long legacy of the church, basically creeping towards varieties of what historically is called Marcionism. Marcion was a 2nd century teacher who believed that we should split off Christianity from its Jewish biblical roots and simply have Jesus as the Savior who we follow now and forget all that earlier Jewish stuff. And very often the church has been tempted to go that route. There was a horrible old rhyme, almost a blasphemous rhyme, which was, how odd of God to choose the Jews, which is a kind of a sneer and we should repent of anything which leads us to say that kind of thing. But that is how many people have thought. So here's the answer as I see it, that when we read the Bible itself, starting with the book of Genesis, the call of Abraham in Genesis 12, and then on through the whole story of Abraham is portrayed as the creator, God's answer to the problem of Adam. That's one of the sort of biblical 101 as far as I'm concerned. Something I've fortunately learned from Jewish commentators actually when I was very young, that if you look at the command to Adam, be fruitful and multiply and look after the garden, that gets transposed into promises to Abraham, I will make you fruitful, I will multiply you and I will give you the land of Canaan. And everything flows from that. That Abraham is Abraham and Sarah together are the launching of God's rescue operation for the human race as a whole. It was never, oh well, there's one culture, there's another culture, they're all quite different and who cares? And so how could any one of them possibly have universal significance? It's that the entire biblical story is saying, this is the way by which the Creator God is working for the rescue of his whole creation. So then when we see that coming down through the prophets, the Psalms, et cetera, again and again. And I, like many Christian teachers, I love the book of Isaiah, particularly the book of Isaiah is amazing because it is both a challenge to the Judean people, the Israelite people of the prophet's day. And maybe there's more than one prophet in that book, but of that whole Period, A challenge to them to be loyal to their God for themselves and to trust him for his rescue operation. But then again and again, saying, Israel, you are my servant. But this isn't just to rescue the tribes of Israel and restore the fortunes of Jacob. I will give you as a light to the nations that my salvation may stretch to the uttermost parts of the earth. So that vocation In Isaiah chapter 49 resonates on through. And it's complicated in the ancient Judean world, the world of Jesus Day, because different Gentile nations have been beating up the Judean people again and again and colonizing them and so on. So that many Judean people of Jesus Day had no good word to say for those pagans out there, they were a real pain. So please save us from them rather than making us the agents of your salvation for them. So it gets very confused and complicated. But in the heart of it is that the Messianic picture which is drawn down into the New Testament is the picture that you get in say, Psalm 72 or in Isaiah 56:66, of God doing this extraordinary new thing, growing out of the history and culture of Israel, which have been chosen and shaped for that purpose, so that the nations then come and bring homage and offering. Because it is through this means that the world's creator has revealed himself to be not only the creator, but also the Savior of the world. That's basically the logic of Scripture as I see it.

[Mike Bird]

Yeah, I think this is a good question and it exposes a big gap in people's understanding of the Bible. Tom. I think a lot of people want to jump from Genesis 3 with the Fall to John chapter 3, you know, for God so loved the Lord and they. And they just don't know, well, what's everything in between before, what's the purpose of Abraham and David. And then when they read in the Gospels where Jesus says, don't go to the Gentiles, don't go to the Samaritans, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and they scratch their head. And again, that sounds like the opposite of John 3:16, because they simply think the problem is undoing the sin and guilt of the fall, and they don't know how to address it. And what you've laid out explains perfectly. And I would sum it up with a line from T.W. manson, you know, great scholar of the. The Gospels, who said in, in the biblical plan, a transformed Israel would transform the world, that God's purposes come to the world, but they come to and through Israel and that's something, I think you wonderfully explained, what that means in light of the biblical storyline. Unless you understand that Biblical storyline. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense when you, you know, read the Old Testament or the Gospel of Matthew, if you're just viewing everything through the lens of Genesis 3 and John 3.

[Tom Wright]

Yeah, that's a good one. Totally with you. And in fact, that line from T.W. manson does ring a bell with me. I read Manson when I was a student, and though I haven't read him for some years now, I think he was probably one of the people who was pushing me in the right direction when I was an undergraduate and then doing doctoral work.

[Mike Bird]

But anyway, speaking of difficult passages to understand, we've now got a great question from Karine Wong coming to us from Hong Kong, and Kareem's got a great question. She says, hi. I would like to know about the context of the instructions for public worship in 1 Corinthians 11. Corrine, you and me both. What was the context and how do we make it relevant today? Paul seemed to have no room for discussion on his instructions in verse 16. That's where he says, we have no other teaching in all the churches. How are we supposed to interpret it? Yeah, Crane, I feel. I feel you. This is one of the hardest passages in the Pauline corpus. It's. It's about head coverings, it's about hair, it's about men and women. You know, women shouldn't have had their certain weight because of the angels. You know, Tom, I hope at Pearly Gates there's not an exegesis exam on 1 Corinthians 11. Because if this is the verse that's on the exam or this is the passage, I'm worried I could fail because I've been studying Paul for a long time. Not as long as you, but this is a passage that is dense, intense, and even the most seasoned of scholars struggle to understand it. So what are your thoughts? I mean, why does Paul restrict it, saying we have no other teaching? What are your thoughts on the background and context of 1 Corinthians 11?

[Tom Wright]

Yeah, well, I like you, and I'm resonating with a lot of that. You just said people sometimes say, if and when you get to meet St. Paul, what's the first question you're going to ask him? And I'm strongly tempted to say, what did you mean in 1 Corinthians 11? And specially about the argument, which is about the order of creation, about God, Jesus, man, woman, which he seems to be Lining up in a kind of a hierarchy. Because elsewhere, for instance in Galatians3, he says, in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male and female. So, excuse me, Paul, what is this about? And part of it is about public worship. Paul is very concerned here and elsewhere in his letters for the view which outsiders will take of what's going on in these funny things called churches. Just what are these people up to on the first day of the week? They get together and they do things, or they meet in somebody's house in the evening and we can hear singing going on. And we know there are men and women in there sharing the same space. That's a bit dodgy. And we know that they've got slaves in there who seem to be fraternizing with free people. How can that possibly be a good. So there are things which Paul is aware of that outsiders are going to be thinking. And a lot of Paul's teaching about families, about households and so on is very much with one eye to what is the public impression that is being given. Because as Paul says immediately before this passage, be blameless before Jews and Greeks and the church of God. Just as I try to please everybody and everything, not pursuing my own advantage, but that of the majority so that they may be saved. In other words, Paul is aware that people are looking, people are watching. Now, what are they seeing? They're seeing, as I say, men and women meeting together in a quasi egalitarian fashion. And by the way, there are women leading in worship in this passage, which means that any suggestion that women shouldn't lead in worship is completely ruled out by this. But I think the heart of it is that Paul intends that when men are leading in worship, they should be visibly male, and when women are leading in worship, they should be visibly female. And in particular, he doesn't want women to think, well, because we're leading in worship, we can take our headdresses off to show that we're just on the same level as men, because then it looks as if they're trying to be male in some way. And Paul says, no. Part of the point of the church is that it's the small working model of new Creation. And in the new Creation, men are meant to be men and women are meant to be women. And that is part of the glory of the new creation, as you see at the end of the Book of Revelation, where the great controlling image for the New Jerusalem is the New Jerusalem coming down like a bride adorned for her husband. A wedding is the image which the revelation of John uses at that point. Now, I remember Ken Bailey, who spent many years as a missionary in the Middle east lecturing about this passage in Oxford, oh, 25, 30 years ago now. And he said that he, in his travels, he'd gone from East Africa all the way up to Syria and Turkey and back again. He knew churches up and down these areas. Said again and again there are different local cultural contexts, including ones where women, women who leave their hair flowing down their backs or whatever might well be prostitutes, that a prostitute would be somebody who went without a veil. And so if women are saying, oh, we're free in Christ so we can take our veils off, Paul says, we don't want to give people the impression that the women in our fellowships are actually prostitutes looking for new clients. Bailey even told a story about one group in Africa where men and women likewise normally didn't wear clothes at all and where the only women who dressed up were, again, prostitutes. So that ironically, they would be told, if you're coming to church, please take that dress off, otherwise people will get the wrong impression. Now, I find that impossible to imagine, but Bailly assured us that this was indeed a situation. But be that as it may, I think that's the fundamental thing that Paul wants, is that men should be men and women should be women when they're leading in worship, and should be honored as such. Now, having said that, there are other wrinkles here and there are some scholars. Recently I've read one or two articles, but I haven't been able, haven't had the time to follow this up, who've said that maybe part of this passage may be things that the Corinthians are saying to Paul, which he's quoting, and then Paul's answer to them. We know that that happens in chapter six of the same letter where he says all things are lawful, which seems to be a Corinthian slogan, to which he says, ah, but not all things are helpful. And so there may be the possibility in this passage that some of it is dialogue with the Corinthians saying one thing and Paul responding with something else. Now, I do not have a view of that, except to say that would be very difficult to parse out and to be sure of. So I'm coming back through a long circle to the same position where I would really like to know more about this. And I've read lots of articles, lots of commentaries on this over the years. I haven't yet found one that absolutely nails all the bits and pieces in a way which I find satisfying. So when Paul says in verse 16, we have no other custom and nor do the churches of God, I think he's basically saying, just stick with the way that we normally do it. Don't try and experiment on this front or things are going to go wrong. And it's almost a way of saying, please let's not get hung up about this one. Just stick with this line and now let's get on to more important things.

[Mike Bird]

Yeah, that's probably a good advice for handling a very difficult passage. Well, I don't know you, Tom, but after that discussion, I know I need a break. So we're gonna take a break. But don't go too far because our next question is going to be what should Christians think about Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Is he the great leader of Christian anti Nazi resistance or is he really a closet American evangelical? We'll tackle that one after the break. This episode is brought to you by Logos. I have been using Logos for years. Whether I'm preparing a lecture for class, working on my latest book, or doing some sermon preparation, I never do it without Logos because it gives me an instant digital research assistant right in my very hands. Whether I want to check out various Bible translations, the Dead Sea Scrolls in English or Hebrew, or look at various Christian writings like the Apocrypha, or if I simply want a platform to read theological books and commentaries, Logos is the number one place to do it. It is the necessary digital tool for doing Bible study and sermon preparation today. I don't know how you can do this without Logos, so make sure you go check out their new offering where you've got plans starting at $9.99 per month. So visit logos.comnt to get started for free with an exclusive extended free trial. That's logos.com NT start your adventure in the world of digital Bible resources today. When you think about super successful businesses that are selling through the roof like Heinz or Mattel, you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But there's a secret the business behind the business making selling simple for them and buying simple for their customers. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout as Heinz and Mattel. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com promo all lowercase shopify.com promo to upgrade your selling today shopify.com promo this episode is brought to you by Selectquote. Life insurance can have a huge impact on our family's future with selectquote getting covered with the right policy for you is simple and affordable. Selectquote's licensed insurance agents will tailor your experience to find a life insurance policy for your needs in as little as 15 minutes. And select Quote partners with carriers that provide policies for many conditions. Select Quote they shop, you save. Go to selectquote.com Spotify Pod today to get started. And we are back and we're going to change tune a little bit. We're not dealing with the particularism of scripture or 1 Corinthians 11. Now we've got a quick question about Dietrich Bonhoeffer. This is from David Williams from Guelph in Canada. And this is what David asks. He says, I've appreciated your work for decades, going back to InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Graduate Student Conference in Chicago in 1999 or so a number of years ago, even replied to an email thanking for your commentary on Colossians. I was so blessed. Now here's his question. For decades, evangelicals have revered Dietrich Bonhoeffer. With the new biography coming out, he will be the topic of discussion again quite often. What role should Christians take in opposing tyranny? Was he right to try assassinate Hitler? Is he in the mold of Ehud? Or do Jesus statements about even holding malice in your heart being like murder mean there will be no Christian Ehuds? So I mean, what do we think of this? Because I've noticed a lot of Americans, Tom, like to create Dietrich Bonhoeffer in their own image. So Dietrich Bonhoeffer very becomes the sort of Rorschach drawing which they, they they see or because it becomes effectively a mirror and they want to put their own type of Christianity imposed upon him. And he was not an evangelical. I mean he was a 20th century Protestant, part of the Confessing Church. What are your thoughts on Bonhoeffer and do you think he was right to be part of the plot to assassinate Hitler?

[Tom Wright]

Yeah, I should say. I'm not a Bonhoeffer expert. I read a certain amount of Bonhoeffer when I was a student and I've not followed that up. Some people have said to me sometimes your theology is so like Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Why don't you acknowledge him a bit more? And I've said if that is so, I'm afraid that's accidental. I didn't set off to be learning from him, though it may be that stuff that I read when I was very young has percolated through into stuff that I now take for granted. I never been able to follow that up. I did, however, read a new Bonhoeffer biography by an American writer a few years ago. And I was worried about that precisely because, as you said, it made it look as though Bonhoeffer was a kind of American evangelical. Now, of course, Bonhoeffer had a complicated history. And one of the things which I've realized through such study, as I've done of Bonhoeffer, but also of Karl Barth, is that most modern Anglo Saxon Christians really don't know very much about the world of the late 19th and early 20th century, of German Lutheranism, or indeed of continental Calvinism, where Barthes grew up. And when you go back and look and see what was being taught in the seminaries in the late years of the 19th century and the early years of the 20th century in those contexts, it is so different from anything in Anglo Saxon Christianity that it just doesn't map onto it at all. And so when Barthes then starts discovering the Bible in the First World War years, and when Bonhoeffer comes to America and is studying at Union Seminary and then is sharing in the worship of a black church in Harlem, all sorts of new things are happening to them, which they're seeing within their context of that broadly older, liberal Lutheran framework, and they're navigating and negotiating through that. So as I stand back from that, this is an amazingly complex layer upon layer of different Christian traditions and spiritualities coming through, and any attempt to line them up and to claim either Barthe or Bonhoeffer or anyone like that as being just like us with a few German wrinkles, no, that's really not going to work. But when we then come to this huge question, and I remember being puzzled about that when I was a young man, how could he possibly join the plot to assassinate Hitler? The only way I can make sense of that is by imagining the typical situation which moral philosophers imagine of if there's a man with an axe at the door of the house and he just wants to kill somebody, and my children are in the house and this guy's about to break in, what do I do? Do I try and disarm him? Do I stand in the way? Or in extremis, do I grab the axe and try to him off, even at the risk maybe of damaging or killing him? Now, I've never happily been in any situation remotely like that. I don't know how I would react. But I think that Bonhoeffer and many others had got to the place where they saw Hitler as being like the man with the axe at the front door. And in other words, we've tried everything else We've tried prayer, we've tried Christian witness of this sort, and that we've had the Confessing Church, which has stood up against Hitler and some of its members have been imprisoned and so on, like Ernst King was, and yet this man is still on the rampage. What are we supposed to do? And maybe if there are people saying that in the name of God, we have to take the risk of saying, this man is so out of control that he has to be stopped. And if the only way we can do that is by killing him, then we have to say, lord have mercy on me. And maybe we have to do that. Having never been in that situation remotely, I do not want to sit in judgment on people who have been. But I understand the logic of the axeman at the door. Even though one prays and hopes that such situations would be vanishingly rare and that we never find ourselves again in that sort of situation. Though, sadly, looking at the crazy stuff that's going on in the world right now, I can see that many might feel that there might be a case, et cetera, et cetera. But. So I am not. I've never been a pacifist as such, although I do reckon that most arguments for saying this war is a just war, therefore we've got to join in. When I look at it, I've heard those arguments, and again and again I say, wait a minute, I'm not so sure about that. Maybe that's just because, as a Brit, I would rather stand back from such things. But I don't want to say that Bonhoeffer was absolutely right and we've got to follow him him or that he was absolutely wrong and we should reject him. I want to say, with fear and trembling, we look at situations like he found himself in and say, lord, have mercy on us, sinners as we are, and we hope that we are not going to be put in a position where we've got to make moral choices of that magnitude.

[Mike Bird]

Yeah. I mean, I think from what I know of Bonhoeffer's biography, he had a stark choice. He was considering going to India to study pacifism with Gandhi. Or should I stay in Germany and join the plot to assassinate Hitler? That's the very definition. A sharp choice. Go to go to India and study pacifism or stay here and join the plot to assassinate it. Yeah, yeah. But life is complex and you've simply got to discern within the precincts of your own conscience what is the right thing to do and just pray you did the right thing.

[Tom Wright]

Yeah. I mean, I think the India thing was certainly one of the options. Another option would have been to do what Tillich and others did and stay in America and teach theology. Yeah. And I think part of Bonhoeffer's decision was to say no. That's escaping the challenge. I have to go and be with the people in Germany who are looking to me for a lead and well, there it was.

[Mike Bird]

Yeah. Well, speaking of doing the right thing, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and the show on YouTube or anywhere else and if you like tell your friends about it. If you're benefiting from this, I'm sure your friends will enjoy it as well. That's all we have time for this week. You can keep sending us your [e-mail] I'm Mike Bird and I've been joined.

[Tom Wright]

By by Tom Wright from Oxford.

[Mike Bird]

And we'll see you on the next episode of ASK NT Wright Anything. Until next time. God bless you and take care.