Podcast Summary: Ask NT Wright Anything, Season 2 Episode 7
Title: The Alpha and Omega: NT Wright on Jesus’ Lineage and Life After Death
Host: Mike Bird
Guest: N.T. Wright
Release Date: February 23, 2025

Introduction

In Season 2 Episode 7 of the Ask NT Wright Anything podcast, hosted by Mike Bird and produced by Premier Unbelievable, renowned theologian N.T. Wright delves into two profound topics: the nature of the soul from a biblical perspective and the genealogies of Jesus as presented in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. This episode not only addresses complex theological questions but also relates them to contemporary cultural discussions, making ancient texts relevant to today's listeners.

1. Understanding the Soul: Substance Dualism vs. Christian Materialism

Timestamp: 01:24 - 14:53

Listener's Question:
Shane Stafford from New York poses a question on biblical anthropology, specifically contrasting substance dualism (the belief in an immaterial soul) with Christian materialism (the belief that humans are entirely physical beings). He asks whether the Bible supports the traditional notion of the soul or aligns more with a materialistic view as advocated by thinkers like Peter Van Inwagen and biblical scholar Joel Green.

N.T. Wright’s Response:

• Rejection of Platonic Dualism:
  Wright aligns with Christian materialism, stating that the biblical concept of the soul does not correspond to the Platonic idea of an immaterial essence. He explains that in Hebrew, the word for soul, "nephesh," translates more accurately to "life" rather than an immaterial soul. For instance, in Psalms 42:11, instead of interpreting "soul" as an immaterial entity, it should be understood as the "deepest life within me" ("Why are you so vexed, my deepest life within me?" [00:07, under 03:11 mark]).

• Biblical Use of "Psuche/Soul":
  In the New Testament, Wright emphasizes that terms like "psuche" (translated as "soul") are often synonymous with life rather than an immortal essence. For example, in Mark 8:36, where it discusses the danger of gaining the world but losing one's soul, Wright interprets "soul" as life itself, not an immaterial part that survives death.

• Critique of Cultural Dualism:
  Wright criticizes the lingering influence of Platonic dualism in Western Christianity, asserting that the Bible does not support a divided human nature (body and immortal soul). Instead, he emphasizes the Trinitarian understanding of human existence, where the Holy Spirit continues the relationship with believers after death, maintaining their presence with Christ until the resurrection.

• Life After Death:
  Addressing concepts of life after death, Wright points out that the New Testament rarely uses "soul" to describe the after-death state. He references Paul’s teachings, such as in 1 Corinthians 15, where the resurrection of the body is central, contrasting the Platonic view of the soul's separate existence.

Notable Quotes:

• “It’s not a dualism in the usual Platonic sense of body, soul.” (03:45)
• “The New Testament hardly ever uses the word psuche, soul, if you want to translate it like that, to denote the sort of creatures that we are in the interim between bodily death and bodily resurrection.” (08:20)
• “The whole point of Jesus’ resurrection is this is the Creator God reaffirming the goodness of his creation in the person of His Son and thereby launching this new creation.” (13:10)

2. The Genealogies of Jesus: Matthew vs. Luke

Timestamp: 17:09 - 28:41

Listener's Question:
Mark raises a theological question regarding the differing genealogies of Jesus presented in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. He inquires why these genealogies differ and seeks N.T. Wright’s insights on reconciling these differences.

N.T. Wright’s Response:

• Theological Purpose Over Historical Record:
  Wright emphasizes that the genealogies in Matthew and Luke serve theological purposes rather than being rigid historical accounts. He explains that genealogies in the Bible often function as summaries of Israel's story rather than exhaustive lists of every ancestor.

• Matthew’s Genealogy:
  Matthew presents a genealogy that highlights Jesus as a descendant of Abraham and David, strategically structuring it into 14 generations. This structure resonates with Jewish numerology, particularly the significance of the number seven, symbolizing completeness and fulfillment of God's promises. Wright connects this to the Dead Sea Scrolls, indicating that Matthew’s genealogy underscores Jesus as the culmination of Israel’s prophetic narrative.

• Luke’s Genealogy:
  In contrast, Luke traces Jesus’ lineage all the way back to Adam and God, emphasizing Jesus as the Son of God and highlighting a universal connection to all humanity. Wright suggests that Luke's genealogy reflects Jesus as the new Adam, representing the restoration and redemption of all creation.

• Cultural Context and Multiple Traditions:
  Wright draws parallels to how traditional societies maintain multiple genealogical records due to intermarriages and diverse lineages. He illustrates that the differing genealogies in Matthew and Luke likely stem from different ancestral traditions rather than discrepancies, asserting that both serve to affirm Jesus’ messianic credentials from varying perspectives.

• Function Over Precision:
  Addressing concerns about contradictions, Wright advises focusing on the theological messages rather than scrutinizing genealogical precision. He argues that the primary intent is to establish Jesus’ role within the grand narrative of Israel and God’s creation, not to provide a detailed ancestral record.

Notable Quotes:

• “Matthew is saying Jesus is the true descendant of Abraham and David. And... it's a sense that anyone with their biblical wits about them, reading Matthew's genealogy, would say, oh my goodness, here is Jesus. This is the beginning of the seventh seven.” (19:15)
• “Luke is taking the genealogy all the way back to Adam and then to God, which is an extraordinary thing because Luke knows as well as we do that seeing God as the father of Adam is not the same sort of thing as seeing Adam as the father of Cain and Abel and Seth.” (22:20)
• “If you have a thoroughly physical view of what it means to be human... you can have a thoroughly physical view of what it means to be human.” (10:40)

3. Contemporary Applications and Cultural Reflections

Timestamp: 11:57 - 14:53 & 24:17 - 28:41

Beyond the theological discussions, Wright and Bird explore the cultural implications of these biblical concepts.

• Gnosticism and Modern Identity:
  Wright connects the ancient Gnostic belief in separating the soul from the body to contemporary discussions on identity, particularly how modern secular culture often emphasizes an immaterial identity separate from the physical self. He critiques this as a return to dualistic thinking, which undermines the biblical understanding of human nature as integrated and embodied.

• Implications for Bodily Resurrection:
  The rejection of dualism aligns with Wright’s emphasis on the bodily resurrection, a cornerstone of Christian hope that affirms the goodness of creation. He argues that embracing a physical resurrection counters contemporary materialism and affirms the Bible’s teaching on the holistic nature of humanity.

• Genealogies as Identity and Story:
  Discussing genealogies, Wright highlights their role in shaping collective and individual identities within the biblical narrative. He underscores that genealogies are meant to connect people to the broader story of God’s interaction with humanity, reinforcing a sense of belonging and purpose.

Notable Quotes:

• “The whole point of Jesus resurrection is this is the Creator God reaffirming the goodness of his creation in the person of His Son and thereby launching this new creation.” (13:10)
• “The default mode of American religion, particularly discovering who I really am. And that has emerged now, as you say, with the whole identity thing.” (12:30)
• “We are designed to become whole, complete, entire, integrated human beings instead of seeking an identity which is other than our outward material circumstances.” (14:05)

Conclusion

In this enriching episode, N.T. Wright provides profound insights into the biblical understanding of the soul and the genealogies of Jesus, challenging prevailing cultural notions and encouraging a return to scriptural foundations. By disentangling ancient texts from modern misinterpretations, Wright reinforces the importance of viewing human identity and Jesus’ lineage through a theologically coherent and historically informed lens. Listeners are invited to further explore these topics and submit their own questions to continue engaging with NT Wright’s impactful theology.

Call to Action:
For any lingering questions or to delve deeper into topics like identity and human nature, listeners are encouraged to visit askntright.com and submit their inquiries for future episodes.

Notable Exclusions:

• Advertisements by John Lennox and McAfee
• Podcast intros, outros, and non-content segments