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- [00:01]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Before we dive into today's episode, I wanted to share a free resource just for you. It's called 5 Ways to Connect with God. In Our Busy World, it's easy to feel spiritually dry. But this short guide introduces five timeless practices like one phrase prayers, cultivating thankfulness and meditating slowly on scripture. They can refresh your soul and draw you closer to God. You can download your free copy today@premierinsight.org backslash resources. That's PremierInsight.org backslash resources. Now let's get into today's podcast.
- [00:47]
Mike Burt
Hello and welcome to another episode of Ask NT Right Anything, the show where we answer your questions about Jesus, the Bible and the life of. And I'm Mike Burt from Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. And I'm joined by.
- [01:01]
Tom Wright
Hello, Tom Raich here from Oxford in England.
- [01:06]
Mike Burt
Tom, I just got your book, the Vision of Ephesians. It's great. I love it. Tom, how long does it take you to write something like this? And don't say a couple of hours.
- [01:18]
Tom Wright
No, no, no. That grew out of lectures that I was doing. I did two brief talks to a bunch of clergy and laity two, three years ago on Ephesians 1, 3 and 4 6. Then back here in Wycliffe a year or two ago in Wycliffe in Oxford, I did a series of Bible expositions, I think half an hour each, and I think there were probably eight of them. And I covered the whole book and I then took them to America and I expanded them into nine and the lectures grew a bit. So it was kind of a rolling thing, starting with a framework and then building out and building up. So overall it wasn't a matter of how many hours was I sitting at the desk. It was over a two or three year period. Those were growing. Thank the Lord for computers because it's so easy to do this. I should say for our American viewers, that cover that you held up is the British one. The American cover looks like this. Just in case there's any confusion. Yeah, that's right. Because Mike, I don't know if you looked at the opening of the book, but it quotes you because that when we were in Athens recording together, you asked me which is my favorite Pauline letter, and I gave the example of various rooms in the house corresponding to different letters. Then I said, but there's a room from which we get this view of the mountains and the sun and the moon, et cetera, et cetera, and that's Ephesians. And so the designer of the American cover picks up that image of looking out over the Firth of Forth and the mountains beyond and the river and so on. So that was really neat. It looks like wavy lines until you realize, actually that is a kind of artist's representation of the view that we used to have, Maggie and I, from our house in Fife. Anyway, there it is.
- [03:07]
Mike Burt
Oh, good. Well, in our bonus episodes, we've been going through the Book of Acts. We nearly finished that, and once that's done, we're going to start plumbing the depths of Ephesians.
- [03:17]
Tom Wright
That would be great.
- [03:19]
Mike Burt
Yeah. But in the present moment, we've got to answer some questions from our very courageous listeners who have sent us their questions. We've got of good ones this week. Questions on whether we can do greater works than Jesus. The clause debate. Maybe you did not know about that, but that's pretty big in church history and about one's relationship to one's parents. Our first question is from Evelyn Barton in Tulsa, and she's got a question about how we can do greater works than Jesus. And she asked this. She says, I'm respectfully asking if you could clarify this question. Now, I'm a recovering Pentecostal and I just can't seem to connect the dots on the advice Jesus gave to his disciples, advising them. They we will do more than him, more than healing, discipleship and miracles. How do I proceed in this physical realm with this scripture and understand it? Mr. Wright, I appreciate you sincerely, Evelyn. Now, Tom, if I understand what Evelyn's getting at, I think she's alluding to a significant text in John's Gospel, John 14:12, where in. In the New Testament for everyone, Jesus says, I'm telling you the solemn truth. Jesus continued, anyone who trusts in me will do the works that I'm doing. In fact, they will do greater work than these because I'm going to the Father. Now, Tom, how can we possibly do greater works than Jesus? I mean, I'm. I'm not going to get crucified anytime soon. I mean, I'm not going to. I haven't done too many miracles. I mean, the most miraculous thing I can do is make paella.
- [05:01]
Tom Wright
It's pretty good.
- [05:01]
Mike Burt
It's pretty tasty.
- [05:03]
Tom Wright
That would be a miracle if I were to do it. But no, I mean, it's a text that sort of always hits ordinary people like us in the face because we look up to Jesus and what he did and think, oh, my goodness, that's amazing. And then when he says greater works than these, but I mean, the text is sitting there in John's Gospel as Far as I know, there's no textual variants which say this was a later edition or anything like that. I've often said when people have asked me this question, I'm not quite sure what Jesus had in mind when he said greater works than these, but I am 100% sure that he didn't mean lesser works than these will ye do because I go to the Father. But I think that explanatory clause really helps that because I go to the Father.
- [05:45]
Mike Burt
That's what I was thinking.
- [05:46]
Tom Wright
Jesus ascension to the right hand of God so that Jesus is now the one who is to whom all authority is given in heaven and on earth. And as a result of that, whereas when Jesus was walking around in Palestine, he was healing this person, he was teaching this group here, he was challenging these authorities there. But now that he has ascended, he is in a position where he can get his followers through the power of his Spirit into all sorts of places and situations, that in his incarnate earthly life he is still incarnate, of course, at the right hand of the Father, but in his earthly life he wasn't able to travel to say, Africa or Australia or Britain and speak to great crowds. And I think part of that goes with what Jesus says four chapters earlier. I have other sheep that are not of this fold, and them also must I bring. And there will be one fold and one shepherd. Now, as far as we know, Jesus doesn't engage in any large scale mission to the Gentiles at all. There are little flurries where like the Syrophoenician woman in Mark's Gospel, et cetera, where there are non Jews who come in and the centurion in Matthew 8 of whom Jesus says, I haven't found faith like this, not even in Israel, but they are the exception. Whereas then when Jesus is ascended and sends his followers out into all the world, going to all the nations, well, Jesus did not do that and preached the Gospel to every creature. And so Jesus was working close up and personal. And it's as though, oh my goodness, the scale of this is just enlarged. And I think that's the main thing. Now that isn't to say that he doesn't also mean there are many different kinds of healing which he had not engaged in, but which the church might then do. There are many kinds of community building which he had not engaged in, but the church will then do. I mean, we may in Western Christianity take this for granted, but actually the idea of constructing a community and maintaining a community composed of Jews and Gentiles, the Slave and free, male and female, such as in Paul's communities in Antioch or Ephesus or wherever. Jesus was not trying to do that. But in the scope of history and culture that is an extraordinary task. And when Paul is doing that, when he and Barnabas are teaching this polyglot, polychrome group in Antioch and then when Paul is arguing for these great new types of community in Greece and Turkey, and then in the letter to Rome, et cetera, this is something that Jesus had not attempted to do. His task was to complete the work of what we think of as Israel BC to bring God's purpose for Israel to its climax, but with always the intention that then when that happened, as in the Psalms, as in Isaiah, the then the nations are gonna hear and get blessed, et cetera. And that of course goes way back to Abraham. In you and in your seed, all the families of the earth will be blessed. Now Jesus is hinting that the time is coming for that fulfillment, but he is not himself engaged in a full on task of making that happen. So I think the worldwide mission of the church and within that all sorts of healings and so on which we don't find in the Gospels, but which we should be prepared for and be prepared to pray for as the mission of the Church goes out into the world. So that's how I have taken it. Do you have a different line, Mike? I mean, I don't think you and I have ever discussed this before.
- [09:39]
Mike Burt
Yeah, I know what I think it's right. I think it's when he says, because I'm going to the Father, Jesus goes to the Father and that way he can send the Holy Spirit. And if you think of John 7, you know that springs of living water will well up in people and that will burst forth from them. I think it's that Jesus goes to heaven. He's seated at the right hand of the Father, he sends the Spirit and then the Spirit empowers the disciples, the apostles, the church for this global mission. That is kind of the greater things. Because they're the ones who are gonna, you know, go to the ends of the earth. They're the ones who will, you know, as the Father sends me, so I send you. So I think that's the sense of the greater things. So yeah, so I think Evelyn doesn't need to be anxious that she's not doing miracles like Jesus. That's okay. You're part of the church that's done great things and continues to do.
- [10:31]
Tom Wright
And yeah, I always remember there was a book honoring Archbishop Michael Ramsey. I think it was his 80th birthday or something like that. And the title of the book was Great Christian Centuries to Come, which struck me powerfully at the time because I thought the whole point of Christianity was that Jesus was coming back any moment. And the idea of great centuries still to come struck me as odd. And the answer is of we don't know. Jesus could and might come back at any moment and we should be praying our Lord, come. However, as the church has gone on, so despite muddle and failure and sin and division, et cetera, God has worked his purpose out so that right across the world there are uncountable numbers of people who are worshiping God in Christ day by day, week by week. You couldn't have foreseen that when Jesus was in the upper room with the disciples. But that's where we.
- [11:30]
Mike Burt
Exactly. Well, we hope you've answered your question, Evelyn. We've got another question, I believe from John Anderso or Anderson. Maybe I got that wrong from Whitney in the uk. And this is, does the filioque clause matter? And John asked this. I used to know a thoroughly godly great man of God who was from a secular Jewish background. Then he found faith in Jesus Christ as savior. And at first, this brother in Christ belonged to the Eastern Orthodox tradition. However, in time, he settled in a Protestant church. He told me that during the Creed he would close his mouth and go silent when it came to the bit about the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. So that line and the Son is the filioque. Does this matter? Should I be careful how I say the Creed in church faith? Now, Tom, if I can fill in the gap here for those who don't know, the earliest version of the Nicene Creed that was agreed upon by the Church said the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. But then when a bunch of I can't remember if it was Goths or Vandals were converting to Christianity, they initially became Aryan. So they had a view of Jesus as like mini God. And to make sure they believed in Jesus as fully God in the Latin Church, they added the phrase that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. So it kind of integrates the Father, Son and Spirit closer together. So you've got a very divine Jesus, a very robust Trinitarian theology. And then that got formally ratified in the 11th century in 1014. Now, here's the issue. Is it theologically correct to say that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son? And can the Roman. Can the Latin Church unilaterally go around changing creeds without the consensus or support of the Eastern or the Greek wing of the Church as well. So, Tom, how about we break into those two parts? Yes, it's really proper to say, the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. And secondly, do you think the Latin Church, the Western Church, from which Anglicanism and Protestantism came, did they have the right to unilaterally go around changing creeds without consulting brothers and sisters in the East?
- [13:59]
Tom Wright
Yeah, I mean, that latter question is, I think, the really crunchy one, because ever since that time a thousand years ago, the Greek church has looked across at its sister in Rome and said, how come you just change the rules? You know, we.
- [14:17]
Mike Burt
Or like, why are you the way you are? Kind of like that. That's like our Greek friends go, why would you do that?
- [14:23]
Tom Wright
Yes, yes, Quite, quite like somebody, a member of a family coming in and changing all the furniture in a room, you know, well, okay, but we all live here together, so how come you do that? That's how it felt. And quite apart from what the words actually mean, that it was really a failure. I think it was seen at the time as a failure of charity, that charity should have said, we are in love with one another. We are in a family which respects and trusts and loves one another. And families that do that don't just start doing these things unilaterally. Now, of course, that is a very relevant question for many issues today in the 21st century, where different bits of the Church are saying, we're going to go ahead and do this innovation whether or not the rest of you approve. So it isn't that this is some old arcane question which we can shrug our shoulders and walk away from. This is always a challenge that if we're told in, say, Philippians 2, 1, 4, that we should strive as hard as we can to be in full accord and of one mind and not to do anything out of this is what we want to do, but rather to be navigating our way to maintain the unity. And this is Ephesians 4, maintaining the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. But. And so I think that's the main problem was that the Greek east really did, and I wanted to use the word felt, but felt isn't strong enough. Felt is. Well, we can feel all sorts of things, but they really.
- [15:56]
Mike Burt
They made some very big denunciations of the Latin Church. There was like, open denunciations and what you call it, anathematization of each other, which wasn't ended till the 1960s.
- [16:09]
Tom Wright
Well, quite. It wasn't ended till the 1960s, but even thereafter that doesn't mean that now there's the one Creed for everybody, because the Greeks still don't say, and the sun and the Latins and the west in general. Do I have to say another preliminary. When we lived in Scotland and attended regularly the Episcopal Church in the little village where we lived outside St Andrews, I discovered that the Episcopal churches rite for or week by week communion services had the printed creed and it didn't have the filioque and the Son. Because the Scottish Episcopal Church, very interesting, said actually we want to be showing our solidarity with the early Church, the Church of the first thousand years. And they didn't say it then, so why should we say it now? There have been some interesting to ings and froings between the Scottish Episcopal Church and parts of the Greek East. It's partly that the Scottish Episcopal Church has always liked to show that it is quite different from the Church of England. So, you know, we're not doing that. So actually we want.
- [17:21]
Mike Burt
I've lived amongst the Scots. I know what you mean, Tom, I know what you mean.
- [17:25]
Tom Wright
So that's the kind of church polity question. The question as to what it actually means, what the words actually mean, is quite difficult and intricate because it involves different philosophical conceptions of the Trinity. I'm not sure that I can simplify this, but I remember hearing explanations going way back to when I was in theological college that if you see the Trinity in one particular way, it makes sense to think of the Father and the Son together sending the Spirit. But if you see the Trinity in a different way, it makes more sense to see that the Father sends the Son and, and sends the Spirit, so that you don't have that line across, as it were, from the Son to the Spirit. My own hunch is that both those models are simply later philosophical ways of trying to say the really mysterious thing which the New Testament does say. In a previous question, just now we were talking about John 14 and it's the farewell discourse, John 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, where we would go for this, because there it's quite clear. Jesus says that I will send you the Spirit, and then the Spirit whom the Father will send in my name. And there seems to be a constant toing and froing around that question, which leads me to say that I think from the perspective of an ordinary reader of John, that the two actually converge. And we shouldn't be too over fussy, but about how we try to line up in our minds. Do we have Father, Son, Spirit? Do we have Father, Son, Spirit? Or do we? How does all this work? Because the three all seem to be very much converging. And when the Spirit comes, the Spirit is the means by which, According to John 14, the father and the Son together make their home with Jesus followers. So I would say let's be careful about the issue of charity and let's pray and work for reconciliation and unity across those very ancient divisions which have been quite strict and damaging for many, many years. But as we do that, we pray to the Father in the name of the Son, in the power of the Spirit. And it seems to me as long as we are doing that and praying for the gift of the Spirit, praying to the Father that he will do what the Son said and send the Spirit, then seems to me we're on track and we don't then need to be too anxious about whichever philosophical model we are adopting. You may be able to fill that in a bit more, Mike, but that's where I would be coming from.
- [20:19]
Mike Burt
Yeah, I think I'd be similar. I think it is theologically correct to say the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and that ensures that you cannot claim to have the Spirit without going via Jesus. So you can't say, well, there's a universal religion and we get the Spirit from the Supreme God. We don't need Jesus to get the Spirit. So I think it is, it is protecting something very important there. That said, I don't think the Latin Church should have gone around willy nilly changing things like it's like someone coming to your house and changing the WI fi password or changing one of like the locks on the bedroom or something like that. You just can't go around in the, in the, in Jesus's house changing things to suit your own interest.
- [21:06]
Tom Wright
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- [21:42]
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- [22:09]
Tom Wright
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- [22:38]
Mike Burt
I'll just finish off with one thing. One of my favorite but it has to be the most inside of theological jokes was when Pope Benedict XVI came to the uk, there was a theology student up there holding a sign saying Repeal the Filioquia clause. Now it is, it is the most theological joke. Like I'm guessing 99 of the people did not even know. I mean, there was people celebrating the Pope, some people protesting, but here was a guy saying repeal the filio clause. And I can say I agree with him. I think I would take a position like the Episcopal Church. I think we until we have consensus in the entire Christian world communion, we should go back to the Nicene Creed as originally written. But I'd love to hear from any of our listeners, they have any strong thoughts of that, go onto our YouTube channel. Tell us, tell us you know what you're doing with your, with the Nicene Creed in your church.
- [23:37]
Tom Wright
But I do think the point that you made is really important, that if somebody were to say, well, I just get to the Father through the Holy Spirit and I don't need Jesus, if somebody would come up with that idea, then there are masses of answers in the New Testament to say no, actually. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to factor everything into the Creed or try to read everything into or out of the Creed. Creeds are not meant to cover everything. If they were, they would be as long as Karl Barth's Church dogmatics or longer. Happily, we don't read the whole of the Dogmatics every Sunday morning in church. We just say the Creed.
- [24:15]
Mike Burt
That's a fate worse than death time reading the complete Church Dogmatics every Sunday. Well, that's probably a good point for us to take a break. But don't go too far because when we come back we're going to tackle the topic just Does Jesus really call us to abandon our parents? Back after this break. Foreign question comes from Holly Wajenberg in Goffstown, usa. And Holly asks. Hello. Sorry for the long question. I'll probably be bothering you again in the future. That's okay, Holly, we want to be bothered by you. How is one meant to love God with all your heart? People always say that you need to be ready to sacrifice everything for God if you want to become truly close with Him. But how am I supposed to be emotionally able to do that when I've never met him except as a metaphor? My parents are my everything. My friends, my family pets are my everything. I'd give up my life for them in a moment, but the implication is that I would need to be ready to give them up in exchange for God. And I'm not willing to do that. While I can acknowledge him as the creator of the universe and inherently worthy of respect for that, he wasn't the one who stayed up to rub my back when I was feeling bad or read me stories when I was a child. How am I supposed to develop an emotional connection with a God who refuses to talk back? Well, that is quite a question there, Holly. Tom, what are your thoughts for Holly?
- [25:46]
Tom Wright
Well, I understand and I love the picture of parent and child which Holly paints for us. And obviously that was a good and healthy upbringing that she enjoyed, unlike sadly, many who don't have that. But the question of Jesus challenge to discipleship in the Gospels, Right. The way through is curious because in Jesus world, that parent child relationship was regarded as pretty sacrosanct, pretty important. I mean, part of the shock of the parable of the prodigal son is when the younger son tells his dad, basically, I wish you were dead cause I want my share of the property. I mean, that is one of the most shocking lines in the New Testament Testament because they are living in a culture where respect for parents and loyalty to and devotion to and obedience to parents was absolutely paramount. And of course, in the New Testament, in the household codes, for instance, in Ephesians and Colossians, Paul is very clear that children should obey their parents in the Lord, et cetera. So it's the radical call to discipleship that Jesus offers that it doesn't say everyone must under all circumstances, abandon parents, et cetera. It's that Jesus himself is the one who claims our ultimate allegiance. And there was a bit towards the end of what Holly said there, which I thought I wanted just to walk around and look at from different angles, because she said, how can I cope with this God who never shows up and who never talks back, et cetera. Part of the point of the New Testament is to say that God has spoken to us in and through Jesus. Jesus is the living word and also the speaking word. Hebrews 1:1 says, in the last days, God has spoken to us through the Son, through whom he made the heir of all things. And so when we are reading the words of Jesus, one of the kind of implicit rubrics, the bit that's painted at the top of the page in our mental Bibles should be, this is actually what God is saying to all of us and maybe hard for us to hear. And there are different things that Jesus says which are hard for us to hear, but that it means that we're talking about a God who is not silent, who has not hidden away somewhere, and who just demands our distant worship. And I think our culture has tended still to be a sort of 18th century deist culture. That is to say, we may believe that there is a God somewhere, but he's a long way away, doesn't really concern himself with us, and we're not quite sure what he's said and whether he hears us, that's deism. Or actually, in the ancient world, that was a form of epicureanism. And much of the Western world still defaults to that. But the whole point of the biblical trinitarian vision is that no, the God who made the world has come forward to meet us in the person of His Son, in Jesus. So when Jesus himself says to the person who says, look, I want to follow you, but let me go and do the right thing by my dad. Cause he's an old man, he's gonna die soon. It's my job to bury him. Jesus says, follow me and leave the dead to bury their dead. And as some people have argued, again, like the prodigal Son, that's a pretty shocking thing to say. Leave the dead to. But he's my Father. And it's as though Jesus is saying there is an urgent task right now. It's the work of the Kingdom of God, and we're engaged in it right now. And if you want to join in, come and join in. But don't think you can have one foot in one side and one foot in the other. I think there are times when to any and all of us, Jesus has to say things like that this is a matter for prayer and discernment. Because for many people, much of the time, the answer is no. Of course, go and do the right thing for your father and mother. That command, honor your father and mother, is not rescinded in the New Testament. It's actually emphasized once or twice. But if honoring your father and mother meant that you could say, therefore, I'm not gonna bother following Jesus, I'm not gonna work for his kingdom, et cetera, then hang on, hang on, hang on. We've got to do some work here. And that's where good pastoral, wise, discerning counsel would really help for an individual in that context. But likewise, when Jesus, having met the young man in Mark 10, explains to the disciples, unless you're prepared to abandon father, mother, brother, sister, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and some textual traditions even have and wife in there, which always startles me, then you can't be my disciple. You can't be followers of me. And these are typical of some of the really sharp things that Jesus says, because he wants to emphasize this is an overriding call. And it isn't a distant, unspeaking God. It's a very present speaking Jesus. And I want to say to Holly and anyone else listening, the person of Jesus is no doubt very mysterious. But Jesus in many places says, if you want to come after me, then ask me in. Tell me that you want me to come and dwell within your heart, within your life. And when people do that, Jesus routinely, routinely will actually become a living presence. And that living presence displays itself in a variety of ways, but one of which is often that gentle word breathed through his spirit, no doubt into our heart of hearts, into our mind, somewhere saying, actually, this is the point at which you have to say no to this human commitment in order to say yes to following me. But where that comes and what that means, I would say that does require discernment. And discernment may well require the help and wise counsel of somebody in pastoral relationship with you.
- [31:51]
Mike Burt
Yeah, I think you're correct, Tom. The Bible, the New Testament, emphasizes a lot the importance of honoring and respecting parents, but where pleasing your parents becomes the first priority. When you put priorities ahead of God, you end up with disordered loves. You're putting your loves in the wrong order. And if your parents say things like, oh, I don't want you working around or hanging around those church people anymore, I think they're a bad influence on you. I was hoping you'd rather take over the family business, you know, rather than, you know, follow your own career in, you know, journalism or in the church or anything. There does come a point where you You've got to tell your parents that you are your own person, you're a grown adult, you're not beholden to them. Like, like any relationship, you don't want to get people offside and you don't want to needlessly antagonize people. But, you know, when I, when I told my parents I was leaving the army to go into Christian ministry, they weren't terribly pleased with me. They thought it was a stupid idea and they thought I was just going through a really weird Christian phase.
- [33:00]
Tom Wright
That's right.
- [33:01]
Mike Burt
Gone for it. Been going on for a good 30 something years, my Christian phase. Apparently no sign of giving it up anytime. But yeah, I did had to go go against my parents because they didn't like what I was doing. They weren't pleased when they found out I was going to church. They, they were like, kind of shocked. I was, I was hanging out in the church, so. But that can happen to people.
- [33:23]
Tom Wright
Yeah, I know. I have a good friend who, when he became a Christian family, was not Christian at all. His parents, particularly his father, were absolutely shocked and horrified. And then when he said he was called to become ordained, that was even worse. You can't have our vicar in the family. That's terrible. And then some years down the track, this young man, having done a curacy and ministered here and there, was appointed to be chaplain of the college, which was his father's old college. And so 15 years down the track, there was a kind of reconciliation. Oh, well, isn't that wonderful? You're now chaplain of this college. And so God moves in many mysterious ways. I never had the trouble that you face because I come from a family which has a lot of clergy in it. On my mother's side particularly. Where I found trouble was when I said I wanted to do a second second degree and then go on and do a doctorate. And this was at the time, in the late 60s, when people in Britain were worried about perpetual students, about people who were sponging off the taxpayer by saying, I'm going to write yet another thesis and yet another this and yet another that. And thanks very much, taxpayer, for funding my private hobby here. And so I had to struggle a bit to convince them that it's actually going to be a good idea. And eventually, I think about sort of five or six books down the track, I think they realized, oh, there seems to have been a point to this.
- [34:53]
Mike Burt
But it seems to have worked out for you reasonably well, Tom, this academic, this academic career. Well, you still, you've still got a bit of time to get there, I guess in the end.
- [35:05]
Tom Wright
Well, let's hope. Let's hope.
- [35:06]
Mike Burt
Yeah. Well, that is all we have time for today. I just want to remind our listeners and viewers, I mean, you can find this show not just on podcast places, in podcast places. You can find it on YouTube. And remember, you don't have to wait for the new episode to come out every week. Go have a look through the back catalog and just have a really good binge. So if you've got to do a big drive from London to Edinburgh or you got a big train ride or a flight, just tune into a bit of Ask NT Wright episodes and enjoy the commentary. And if you want to help the show, so don't forget to share it with friends, family or people you think will benefit from what's going on here. But I'm Mike Burt from Ridley College. Thanks for joining us.
- [35:54]
Tom Wright
And we've been with with Tom Wright from Wickliffe hall in Oxford.
- [35:59]
Mike Burt
God bless you and look forward to seeing you on the next episode of Ask NT Wright anything.
- [36:30]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
And now a scary story brought to you by Instacart. Saturday was busy, but now it's Sunday. So you're rotting in bed and that's when you start to smell something rotten and it's not you. You follow the smell to the laundry room, where you find a full pile of laundry and an empty container of detergent. Panic sets in. But then you open Instacart and order everything you need to get your life back together delivered in as fast as 30 minutes for one less Sunday. Scary. We're here.