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Ask NT Wright Anything
What does the Bible mean by a hardened heart, 'filled' by the Spirit and to be 'holy'?
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Ryan
Guarantee Ask NT Write Anything is sponsored by Logos. Start going deeper in the Bible with a free trial@logos.com NT hey, it's Ryan.
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Tom Wright
Now.
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Mike Bird
Hello and welcome to the Ask NT Wright Anything podcast, the show where we try to answer your questions about Jesus, the Bible and the life of faith. I'm Mike Bird from Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia.
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Tom Wright
And I'm Tom Wright from the far north of Scotland.
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Mike Bird
And today all of our questions seem to begin with the letter H. H is the letter today because we've got questions about holiness, hardness of heart, words from the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit filling people. So get ready for the letter H coming at you. And our first question comes from Margie Sutton in London, and she asks this. The Bible talks of being holy, holy ground, keeping the Sabbath holy. What is God's definition of holiness? So, Tom, when it comes to defining holiness and the holiness of God, what is it?
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Tom Wright
The word holy Qadosh in Hebrew is a huge word which, as you've already indicated, spills out in different directions. But at its heart, it's about the utter specialness of God, the Creator, the goodness of God, the magnificence of God, the splendor, and, as it were, unapproachable light of God. Although when we talk about unapproachable light, which the Bible does, we are also told that blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. So there's all sorts of mystery surrounding that. When we have the great seen in The Temple. In Isaiah, chapter 6, the prophet Isaiah hears the seraphim singing kathosh kadosh, kadosh, holy, holy. Holy is the Lord Almighty. The whole earth is full of his glory. And that triple repetition of the word holy kadosh in Hebrew, that's a way of doing a superlative. This is utter holiness. And of course, then the question bounces back at the prophet Isaiah because he has seen the Lord of hosts, the King of glory, with his own eyes. And he knows that you're not supposed to do that, that people can't see God and live, because God is utterly separate from humans and because he is utterly holy. And we are, as Isaiah says, a terrible state. We are people of unclean lips. The lips merely signify the state of our hearts and lives. And then Isaiah is given a special dispensation that an angel comes and touches his lip lips with the hot coal from the altar. Very scary. He might have thought his end had come. And that's in fact to cleanse and purify him so that God's holiness can then, as it were, be channeled through the prophet's words. So there's something very mysterious going on there. But then that comes through into the time of Jesus in terms of the holiness of God being concentrated on Jerusalem, and then within that on the Temple, and then within that, on the holy of holies within the Temple. And that phrase is significant. It's the holy place within the holy place. And then on the terrible thought that maybe God's judgment is going to fall on the Temple because just as in the Book of Ezekiel or Jeremiah, because of the wickedness of those who've been supposedly looking after it. And indeed we then find the whole concept of holiness, of separateness, of apartness, of specialness in general comes through. And instead of the Temple and the holy of holies, it's now Jesus Himself who is the utterly Holy One. And the New Testament emphasizes His sinlessness. But that makes us realize that holiness here is simultaneously an extraordinary challenge and an amazing welcome, that God's holiness is, as it were, gospel holiness. That God wants in his holiness to reclaim his world, to surround his people with his love, and to make them then share his utter goodness. So at the heart of it, I want to say something about actually about creation, about God as Creator and the whole world being full of his glory. And so that over against any idea that holiness means doing away with the world or not having anything to do with the world of creation and living in some realm of pure spirit, that would be A perversion of the biblical view of holiness, which is the holiness of God the Creator and his utter rejection of human sin and idolatry because God is unique and no idol can ever take his place. But at the same time, this doesn't mean that God is then going to remain all by himself forever, or maybe his triune self forever because everyone else is unholy. But rather it's one aspect of his holiness is his utter love. And as we see in the New Testament, as one of the old choruses goes, at the cross of Jesus, pardon is complete, love and justice mingle, truth and mercy meet. And we need images like that to shake us both away from any suggestion that holiness doesn't matter, and from any suggestion that holiness means that we are without hope.
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Mike Bird
Yeah, I mean, I find holiness one of the hardest divine attributes to explain because people want to say, maybe it means God is purely transcendent. Maybe it means that God is sort of gloriously luminous, or God is simply set apart. And while all of those things are maybe partly true, I think none of them can adequately describe what we mean by divine holiness. And I've always tended to define divine holiness as the sheer Godness of God. It's that which makes God who God is. And what I find so amazing in the Gospels is that though Jesus is a holy man, he doesn't walk around afraid of being contaminated either by sinners or lepers. And this is the thing that baffles the Pharisees, because from all looks and appearances, he should be one of them. He should be a good teacher. He's got a good halaka, a way of understanding the law. He's a person of amazing charisma and authority, but he doesn't respect the boundaries that they think should be put up to define the sacred space as they understand it. It's almost as if for Jesus, holiness is not something to be protected and something to be treasured and cherished in isol isolation. It's something that is contagious and goes forth and goes out into all the world. And it's if holiness is part of God's mission to bring that Godness into the world that knows only unholiness, death, darkness and despair.
- [08:32]
Tom Wright
Yeah, that's great. I like that. Thank you.
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Mike Bird
Well, our next question is from Daniel Puston from Stockholm in Sweden. And we've got here a question about the hardness of the heart. Daniel asked, can you please explain the concept of a hardened heart in the Bible? How and why does God harden someone's heart? He's thinking here of Romans 9. 18. And how does this differ from a person hardening their own heart, as you find in Hebrews 4. 7. Is a hardened heart synonymous with. With not being saved, as many in the reformed tradition suggest? Tom, can you find it within your very soft heart to answer Daniel's question?
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Tom Wright
Well, I suspect that all of us have bits of hardness still in our hearts which need to be softened by the Gospel and by the power of the Holy Spirit. But, yeah, I would beware of having a single category saying, there we are, hardness of heart. That means this, and therefore these people are not saved. End of conversation. Seems to me life is a lot more complicated than that. I mean, Romans 9 looks back to the Exodus narrative where it is Pharaoh's heart that's hardened. And it's fascinating that in Exodus to begin with, Pharaoh hardens Pharaoh's own heart. He just says, no, I'm not gonna do this. In other words, maybe he was going to be moved by compassion for a minute, and then, no, let's not do that. This is not gonna work politically. He sees his own nobles are going to reject the idea. Cause they like having the Israelites as slaves. So he hardens his own heart. But then after a certain point, it is God saying that the only recourse now is judgment. And in order that the judgment be seen to be just, God is hardening Pharaoh's heart. God is saying to Pharaoh, okay, have it your own way. CS Lewis said that the world is divided between people who say, thy will be done, and those to whom, in the end, God will say, thy will be done. And so, in a sense, God hardening Pharaoh's heart is God saying to Pharaoh, okay, you seem to want to harden your heart more and more and more. Okay, let me help you so that then when I finally bring out my people from Egypt, it could have been done much more easily. But you are insisting that I do it the hard way. And so the whole sequence of the plagues and the death of the firstborn and the destruction of Pharaoh's army in the Red Sea, all of that is now going to follow. So I'm wary of taking that historical account and that sequence and turning it into an abstract bit of theology, that there is this thing called a hard heart. And some people have it at the same time, pastorally, tragically. I have known people who, in retrospect, after many conversations and after prayers or whatever it may be, I've had to say, it really looks as though this person's heart is hardened against the Gospel and against. In some ways against their fellow human beings. So it's normally a bit more complicated than that. But it looks as though some people really do buy, as we now use this economic image, people buying into a certain system, which then means that their heart is closed and they can't respond. And I've sometimes had to try to deal with this pastorally when people say, I just can't find any sense of the love of God anywhere. And then when you explore pastorally what's going on again and again, it's because of something bad that's happened in their own life, either their relationship with their parents or their relationship with somebody in the church. And they cannot forgive, and they don't want to forgive. And so their heart is closed in. And the thing is, as Jesus says in Matthew 18, that the same door which opens to let God's forgiveness in is the door which lets our forgiveness go out to other people. And if we close the one, we close the other. So then there is a sense of a deep mystery. And it's a mystery because human hearts ought not to be hard. So just as evil in general is, technically speaking, absurd, in a good creation, evil ought not to exist. And so people wrestle with, is evil simply the privation of good, or is it a positive force? Or what is it? And in a sense, we're not supposed to understand it, because if we could understand it, it would mean that evil had a proper place in God's universe, which it doesn't. And likewise, if we could really understand what a hard heart is, it might mean that some people are just supposed to be like that. End of conversation. And from Romans 9, that's simply not what Paul is talking about. He's talking about God's strange ways with his own people, Israel. And Paul is going to come through that and say in Romans 11, nevertheless, even though those hearts have been hardened, this doesn't mean that all Judeans from now on are outside the reach of the gospel. He says, far from it. God can and will always save more of them. So it's much more mysterious than simply having a category called hard heart and then putting it on certain people. I'm aware I haven't quite answered all the elements of that question, Mike, so feel free to pick some others up.
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Mike Bird
Yeah, I was just thinking of the book of Hebrews where the author gets into the exhortation, you know, do not harden your hearts. I'm thinking, you know, today, would that mean, like you said, like, you know, don't become so despaired or distraught or destroyed, that because Things haven't turned out for you, or you've been angry, or you've been disappointed in something that you kind of, how can I say? Digested, and you become consumed by it. And then you have only bitterness and anger and angst. Do you think that might be the application of what it means today? Do not harden your heart?
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Tom Wright
I think so. Of course, as you would say yourself, Paul, not Paul, the author of Hebrews, is there referring to Psalm 95. And Psalm 95, which is in the old Anglican prayer book, is the canticle we call the Veneti. O come, let us sing unto the Lord ends with if today you will hear his voice, don't harden your hearts as in the provocation in the wilderness. And this goes back to again, the wilderness wandering of the people of God, when, though they saw God's works and though they heard his word, and though Moses had revealed God to them in all sorts of ways, they hardened their heart and said, no, no, no, we don't want to go to that land. We'd rather go back to Egypt, thank you very much, because we had melon and garlic and stuff there. Yeah, yeah, but you were inst. Slavery. But the hard heart comes from a kind of a slave mentality and leads back to that. So Hebrews is echoing that and saying, the way I hear that is that if today you will hear his voice, if there is something fresh that God wants to say to you, if there's something new, which maybe you've been needing to hear but have been putting off hearing, if now, as you read scripture, as you hear a sermon, as you meditate, as you pray, if you sense God saying something to you, don't go, no, no, no, this is not for me. I'm not going to have that. Be prepared to say no, okay, maybe if this is from God, I will welcome it and I will seek a way forward, even though it may be difficult. So it seems to me that there are all sorts of levels at which this might apply. Clearly, there is the arrogant, angry person who won't have anything to do with God and refuses any talk of God and who kind of shouts in God and shakes his fist at the idea of a God all the way through to the devout muddled Christian who maybe is hearing a fresh call, but who says, no, no, no, people like me don't do that. And the answer might be, don't harden your heart. That would be a very sort of gentle application, but there'd be many stages in between where this whole idea could apply and the idea of the heart is itself fascinating because the heart, as the seat of emotions, is the place out of which the will and the imagination emerge. I'm not a biologist or a doctor. I don't understand how the human heart works, but I think it's more connected to our minds and our imaginations than we often suppose. And there's a sense then that we need to pray, Lord, please soften my heart, please open my heart, please speak to my heart. Certain people, when I pray for them, I pray that God will speak to their heart, which is a Hebraism, meaning speak comfortably, speak words of wooing, of invitation, et cetera. All of that clusters around this notion.
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Mike Bird
Well, I would ask our listeners not to harden their hearts by swiping right. Rather, stay tuned because we've got two great questions on the Holy Spirit.
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Tom Wright
If.
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Ryan
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Mike Bird
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Mike Bird
Welcome back. At least for those of you with soft hearts, we've got a great question from Annamarie Musico from the United States and Anna says this hi, my name is Annamarie. I've read two of your books, into the Heart of Romans and Evil and the justice of God. Before I ask my question, I want to thank you for your writings. They've helped me in ways I can't describe. I'm only 24 years old. I've endured tremendous suffering in a short time and I've been graced to live. Your teachings on justice and lament have impacted me so much to the point that my church asked me to teach on lament for a women's retreat last year.
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Tom Wright
And that's wonderful.
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Mike Bird
Anyway, my question is about personal promises. Do you believe that the Spirit can give us personal promises in this day and age? That is specific words for people revealing who your spouse is prior to meeting them? If so, what are some of the examples you've seen or experienced and what practical ways are there to encourage others as they wait on the Lord to fulfill a promise? Now, Tom, I think this is an important question because I see what Anna Marie is asking about, but I can imagine a lot of ways this could go very, very badly. So Tom, what word do you have to Anna Marie about the Holy Spirit giving promises?
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Tom Wright
Yeah, there's been such a spectrum of views on this and different movements of the Holy Spirit, whether in the so called Pentecostal or Charismatic movements or in some quite different traditions where people are given a knowledge of something or a word to say to somebody. And I have experienced this briefly myself, not as much as some people, but I have heard tales from different church traditions where somebody has had a strong conviction that and has spoken a word which then turned out to be exactly on target. And I think that goes in my mind with the general leading of the Holy Spirit. I remember in C.S. lewis's work, I forget where this is. I don't have a mental concordance of Lewis's works where he said that one day he was on his way to catch a train, I think walking through Oxford on his way to the station and he had this strong sense that he had to go and have his hair cut and he was saying I don't actually need a haircut at the moment. The strong sense that Go and have your haircut. And so finally he gave in and went into the barber's shop, and the barber said, oh, Mr. Lewis, I'm so glad you've come in today. I've been hoping and praying you would. I have something I really need to talk to you about. And I would say in such a case as that, that's a word from the Holy Spirit, and thank the Lord that Jack Lewis was obedient to that and was able to be and do the right thing in the right place. I have had moments of that. I've written about one or two of them. The most extraordinary thing, not entirely dissimilar, several years ago, I was doing some lectures in Cambridge, and during the day I was preparing the lectures for the next evening or the next morning, whatever it was. And one afternoon I had a strong sense that I had to go to evensong in King's College Chapel. It was during the university term, during the summer, and I was then dean of a cathedral myself and very used to choral evensong in my own place. And I remember sitting at the desk thinking, I've got a lot of work to do. I really shouldn't take time out and go to evening. And the thought was, go to Evensong. And I thought, but if I was going to go to Evensong, I'd probably go to St. John's College, not King's, because I prefer their choir. But the thought was, no, go to King's. So eventually, long story short, I gave in. I said, okay, okay. So I went in to King's College, and I just timed it at the last minute, and the place was already absolutely full of tourists, particularly tourists, American tourists, so that I couldn't see any seats anywhere. And service was about to start, And I walked up through, and there was one seat at the end of a row. Phew. So I dashed up to just as the choir was coming in. I sat down in the seat, and the person next to me reached out a hand and gripped my arm and said, tom Wright, what are you doing here? And I looked around and I said, bill Farmer, what are you doing here? And this is the New Testament scholar W.R. farmer, who happened to be sitting beside the one blank seat in that chapel. And as the choir was coming in, he got out his pocket diary and he opened it, and on that page he had written, call Tom Wright. Now, he hadn't called me. He hadn't. I don't think he even had my phone number. But, my goodness, in his praying, he must have activated something which made me go to Kings. And it was because he was organizing something he wanted me to take part in. And of course, from that moment, I knew that I had to say yes to whatever invitation he was gonna give me. Now I could count on the fingers of at most both my hands the number of times in my 70 years, 70 plus years, when something like that has happened. But I know of many people for whom that is a much more frequent occurrence. And of course, I think we would all, as pastors want to say that you have to test it out. You have to be prepared in prayer to say, lord, was this just a random word? Was I just imagining this? Are there other things which confirm it? Are there things which make sense about this? Are there? Because it's very, very easy for the whole thing to slide down into subjectivism and for somebody to put their arm around your shoulders and say, I've just had a word from the Lord. You are to go and be a missionary out of Mongolia or whatever it might be. Now that might be right, but let's just test this out. How does that square with everything else that's going on? And so the idea of God speaking to individuals and, or for individuals through a third party, where God gives the third party the Word and then they say it. And sometimes this happens when people say, I'm not sure why, but I just have this strong sense that I need to say this to you. And I have known of people for whom that's happened, where it's been, like Lewis with his barber, where it's been a complete surprise. And then we have to say, well, thank you, God. And God does speak, and God does guide in ways like that, as well as in many other ways.
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Mike Bird
We have another question on the Holy Spirit, this time from Robin Wooldridge in Olympia of the United States. And Robin asks, what does the New Testament mean by the word filled? Please help me understand the original Greek meaning of field. In the New Testament, it seems the Holy Spirit fills people sometimes for a specific work in a special time and place. And then in other places, the Spirit fills for life changing transformation. Now, at one level, you could simply go into Logo software, find a Greek word called. You could go right click on it, and it would give you access to a bunch of dictionaries and that kind of a thing. But, but the way the word is used, Tom, it does have some kind of a nuance. I mean, what does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit? What's the transformational power that comes out of that?
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Tom Wright
Yeah, I think part of the real problem here, Mike, is that the language about being filled with the Spirit has been characteristic of certain strands of Christian spirituality, particularly in the last generation or two. So that since the Pentecostal movement burst on the scene and then the charismatic movements of the 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond, then some people have seen being filled with the Spirit as moving from an ordinary, humdrum Christian existence to a kind of turbocharged Christian existence in which suddenly all sorts of things are going on in your life and all sorts of things are possible. And some people have spoken of that as a one off transformation, which once you've got to that new level, you're going to stay at that level forever and ever and ever. And I want to say pastorally that actually there are many, many different levels, different types of Christian experience, and that actually a certain amount of that is about personality, personality types, cultural context, et cetera. Some people are more naturally ebullient extroverts and that extroversion, ebullience can be a vehicle of God's Holy Spirit. It can also get in the way of it sometimes. And we have to be very careful about imagining that just because suddenly we feel a new release and possibility and spiritual power and so on, that this has now transformed us for good and for all time. Charles Haddon spurgeon in the 19th century was occasionally confronted by people telling him that they had been filled with spirit and were now able to lead a totally holy life. And Spurgeon's response to that on one occas was when a man came to him to say, God has now filled me and I am now completely sanctified and without sin. Spurgeon picked up a large water jug and emptied it over his head, he said, whereupon his sanctification seemed miraculously to disappear. Perhaps not surprisingly, but in other words, we have to be careful about that sort of claim. So let's go back to the beginning, because this idea about being filled with the Spirit is of course particularly focused on Act Acts Chapter two. Now, I've spoken and written about Acts two in various places, but one of the things that's going on there is that the idea of filling is so central that Luke inscribing it, he even uses the word filled when it comes to the day of Pentecost. When the day of Pentecost had fully come, then the rushing, mighty wind filled the house, and the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and so on. Filled, filled, filled. And what is going on in Acts 2 is the New Testament equivalent of Exodus 40 or 1 Kings 8 where the tabernacle in the wilderness and then the Temple in Jerusalem are filled with the glorious divine Presence. Now, as we know, the Tabernacle in the wilderness and the Temple were both then subject to the faith, or lack thereof, of the ongoing Israelite people. And eventually the Temple was destroyed. And the fact that God had come to live there didn't mean, oh, well, that's fine. We're now okay. We can do what we like. We're filled. We're okay. So simply by analogy, we ought to be careful of saying that even if we have been filled with the Spirit, that's okay forever. I had a friend and colleague when I was working in Montreal who was interviewed for a job in a parish. And some enthusiastic charismatic parishioner asked him at the interview, are you filled with the Spirit? And he answered wisely, yes, but I leak. And it seems to me that's a perfectly good answer. Because then, as well as the initial filling in Acts 2, we find subsequent fillings that Saul, filled with the Spirit, says to somebody who's opposing him. And then Saul of Tarsus, who becomes poor, denounces this man who's opposing him. So was he not always filled with the Spirit? Well, in a sense he was. But this seems to be a special sudden onrush of knowing what to say, how to say it, being able to do the right thing at that precise moment. Barnabas is described later on as a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. As though whatever's going on in Barnabas life, you can guarantee he is invoking and being filled by the Spirit and there's gonna be wisdom there. Although later on, even Barnabas gets it wrong, as we see in Galatians chapter, Chapter two. And so it goes on. And then Paul in Ephesians 5 can exhort people, don't get drunk with wine. Be filled with the spirit, as though this is something that you can actually choose, that you have to seek it, have to say, day by day, Lord, fill me afresh. As though we can't guarantee that one day's filling is going to be enough for the next day. So I would say beware of that sense of going up a stage which now means you're there for good. Don't need to worry about it. This is an ongoing thing. It's a challenge. But the glorious thing is that the language of filling is all about being the new Temple, both individually and then as the church. And the New Testament uses the temple language, both of the individual and of the church. And in both cases, we need to go back to the wilderness tabernacle, the temple in Jerusalem, and think about being filled with the glorious divine presence. And we know now from John's gospel, particularly that that's fulfilled in Jesus and especially when he goes to the cross. And so what is our vocation to be? If we are sensing the wind of the Spirit blowing through us today, how am I being called to serve God, to serve my neighbor, to work for God in God's world? So those are the sorts of questions that I would want to be raising.
- [33:44]
Mike Bird
Yeah. I mean, the one thing I've always noticed is that when people are filled with the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts, they normally start preaching the gospel. That seems to be the one indicative sign. So if you want to know what being filled with the Spirit look like, it's not necessarily spiritual pyrotechnics. It's good biblical preaching and living a life worthy of the gospel, you know? Tom, do you know why I to would like love to hear someone ask us? I'd like to hear someone ask the question, what's the difference between being baptized in the Spirit and being filled with the Spirit? So if some brave soul out there would like to ask us that question, I know Tom and I would be very eager to answer it. But we can't answer it now because that's all we have time for today. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Ask NT Wright. Anything brought to you by the letter H for hardening of hearts, holiness, and the Holy Spirit. But remember, you can also ask us questions. If you go to askntyright.com, you can ask us about baptism in the spirit, filling with the spirit, and the difference between them. And finally, before we go, can I just remind you that Premiere has some other great shows as well. There's the unbelievable podcast on Vodcast, the CS Lewis podcast, the matters of Life and Death podcast. Please check them out as well. But that's all from us today. I'm Mike Bird.
- [35:17]
Tom Wright
And I'm Tom Wright, and we'll see.
- [35:19]
Mike Bird
You for the next episode of Ask NT Wright. Anything.
- [35:29]
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