Ask NT Wright Anything

Podcast: Ask NT Wright Anything
Host: Premier Unbelievable (Mike Bird)
Guest: NT (Tom) Wright
Episode: Who wrote Hebrews? and who goes to Hell?
Date: November 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Mike Bird and renowned theologian Tom Wright tackle challenging listener questions on three major topics:

• The mysterious authorship of the New Testament book of Hebrews
• The fate of those who haven't heard or do not fully comprehend the Christian gospel (“who goes to hell?”)
• The place of the Apocrypha (Deuterocanon) in Christian belief and practice

Wright brings his usual mix of academic insight, historical context, and pastoral humility as the pair delve into the complexities and uncertainties surrounding these theological subjects.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Wrote Hebrews? (02:16–11:29)

Setting the Scene

• Mike Bird expresses interest in having more Hebrews content and wonders if Tom Wright will write a mid-level volume on it.
• Wright shares that, while he wrote a short commentary ("Hebrews for Everyone") over 20 years ago, a new major project on Hebrews isn't likely due to current commitments and the depth of work required.

Question: Could the Virgin Mary Have Written Hebrews?

• Listener Question (Patrick Hardy, Hackney, UK): Was the author of Hebrews Mary (the mother of Jesus), or someone else? (06:06)
• Mike: Surprised by the “Mary as author” speculation, is more familiar with suggestions like Priscilla, Mary Magdalene, not Paul, and perhaps Luke.

Tom Wright’s Response

• "Like the Church Father Origen, I want to say the only person who knows who wrote Hebrews is God" (07:12).
• There are guesses (Priscilla, Luke, Apollos), but no textual or historical evidence for any.
• Early church education usually male, but highly educated women did exist; still, nothing in Hebrews’ text points to female authorship.
• Similarities with Paul’s theology exist, but the Greek is distinct; the overlap is not enough for authorship.
• "If it was important for our understanding... that we should know who the author was, I think we would have been told" (10:27).
• The lack of an author is not a mistake or deficiency — the Bible presents the text as intended.

Notable Quotes

• Tom Wright [07:12]: “The only person who knows who wrote Hebrews is God.”
• Tom Wright [10:27]: “If it was important... that we should know who the author was, I think we would have been told.”

2. Who Goes to Hell? (11:40–21:16)

Listener Question (Patrick Jones, Northpole, USA):

• What about those who never heard of Christ, or only encountered a badly distorted version of Christianity? Are they judged for rejecting a caricature or a false gospel? Who goes to hell, and why? (11:40)

Tom Wright’s Response

• “Thank God that I am not God... it isn’t up to us who God ultimately welcomes and calls his own” (13:06).
• Mystery surrounds how final judgment works; Jesus himself said some things are known only to the Father.
• The New Testament presents a real possibility of “final loss” — but the nature of that loss is debated.
• He argues against tidy formulas. Faith in Christ is important, but spiritual realities are often “rocky and dodgy” (15:17).
• He rejects classic universalism—“I’ve never been a universalist... there is the possibility of final loss” (14:10).
• Emphasizes God's justice: those who “systematically corrupt, deface, distort, destroy other human beings” cannot simply be let off (16:26).
• Cites C.S. Lewis: “There are only two sorts of people: Those who ultimately say to God, ‘your will be done,’ and those to whom God will at the last say, ‘your will be done’” (17:13).
• Medieval images of hell mislead; the biblical picture is more about “not being part of the new world which God is making” — some form of destruction or ceasing to exist as an image-bearing human being (18:30).
• His view: perhaps “annihilationism” (final loss is a form of ceasing to exist or to function as a true human in God’s new creation).
• Ends with a call to humility, warning against judgmentalism.

Notable Quotes

• Tom Wright [13:06]: “Thank God that I am not God, and it isn't up to us who God ultimately welcomes...”
• Tom Wright [17:13]: “There are only two sorts of people. Those who ultimately say to God, ‘your will be done,’ and those to whom God will at the last say, ‘your will be done.’”
• Tom Wright [18:30]: “The antithesis of new creation is to lose out, to miss out, not to be part of the new world which God is making... the best way of talking about that is destruction or death.”
• Tom Wright [21:02]: "We all need to embrace humility and say we don't know and we are clinging onto Jesus."

3. The Apocrypha and the Christian Canon (24:10–34:45)

Listener Question (Harrison Baker, Sydney, Australia):

• What place should the Deuterocanon/Apocrypha have for Christians, especially in light of their use in early Judaism and some traditions today? Would you ever preach or read from the Apocrypha in church? (24:10)

Tom Wright’s Response

• There’s a “cheerful to and fro, give and take” regarding the Apocrypha within Christian tradition (32:55).
• The “shadows on the contours of canon”: Some books (“Apocrypha”) are included in some church Bibles but not in others; differences arise from translation history (Septuagint vs. Hebrew Bible) and denominational lines, especially after the Reformation.
• The Apocrypha provides invaluable insight into Jewish beliefs, practices, and prayers during the Second Temple period—essential background for understanding Jesus and Paul.
• Points out the “Psalms of Solomon” may have shaped Paul’s language; understanding such texts makes reading the New Testament “three-dimensional” (27:34).
• Draws a distinction:
  • The Apocrypha is useful for historical understanding, but not the same as “the word of the Lord” for doctrine or preaching (31:28).
  • Would possibly preach from the Apocrypha if asked, but would “nest it within the larger biblical canon,” and likely not use the liturgical formula “this is the word of the Lord.”
• Recalls the Anglican Prayer Book uses apocryphal material (Song of the Three): “I actually pray it day by day. I know it's apocryphal, but it's one of the great hymns of all time. Why should we not use it?” (32:45)

Notable Quotes

• Tom Wright [27:34]: “When we look at the language of those Psalms of Solomon and then we read some of what Paul says in Galatians, there’s all sorts of interesting crossover points which make me think Paul grew up probably knowing those Psalms...”
• Tom Wright [31:28]: “Not to preach from and not to theologize from, but to understand the world of Second Temple Judaism.”
• Tom Wright [32:45]: “...some wonderful bits in the Apocrypha, like the Song of the Three... I actually pray it day by day. I know it's apocryphal, but it's one of the great hymns of all time. Why should we not use it?”
• Mike Bird [34:20]: “Rather than read the Left Behind series or prairie romance novels or... you should probably read the Apocrypha for the great background it provides to both the end of the Old Testament, but also the beginning of the New Testament period.”

Memorable Moments

• [02:47] Mike jokes about starting “a petition or maybe even get a legal injunction” to force Tom to write on Hebrews.
• [13:06] Tom’s honest humility about not being God and the limits of human knowledge regarding judgment.
• [17:13] Tom quoting C.S. Lewis in summary of his position on final judgment: a theological mic-drop moment.
• [32:45] Tom’s affection for the Song of the Three and his argument for using Apocrypha devotionally, even if it’s not canonical.

Key Timestamps

• [02:16] - Discussion opens on Hebrews and authorship speculation
• [07:12] - Tom Wright: “Only God knows” who wrote Hebrews
• [11:34] - Dismissing Mary, mother of Jesus, as author
• [13:06] - Question on hell and God’s judgment; Tom emphasizes humility
• [17:13] - Tom quotes C.S. Lewis on “your will be done”
• [18:30] - Annihilationism and the nature of final loss
• [24:10] - Question on the Apocrypha and Christian canon
• [27:34] - Apocrypha’s importance for understanding Paul and “three-dimensional” readings
• [32:45] - Tom’s personal use of apocryphal hymns

Tone & Style

The episode maintains a scholarly yet conversational tone, weaving together gentle humor, pastoral sensitivity, and intellectual rigor. Bird keeps the atmosphere light and engaging, while Wright offers deep reflection, historical knowledge, and a strong sense of humility regarding theological mysteries.

Conclusion

The episode exemplifies the thoughtful, nuanced approach Ask NT Wright Anything listeners value:

• On Hebrews’ authorship: Humility in the face of uncertain ancient history.
• On hell and judgment: A refusal to be dogmatic; emphasis on God’s justice and mercy, and a realistic, biblically-based outlook on final loss.
• On the Apocrypha: Treasuring its historical—theological value without confusing it with canonical scripture.

Listeners are encouraged to wrestle faithfully with unresolved questions, read widely (even the Apocrypha!), and remain humble about ultimate answers.

For questions or to hear more, visit askntwright.com and submit your own!