Ask NT Wright Anything – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Why does the New Testament show so much demonic activity? and why are so many young Christians turning to high church traditions?
Podcast: Ask NT Wright Anything, Premier Unbelievable
Date: December 7, 2025
Hosts: Mike Bird & Tom (NT) Wright

Overview

In this episode, Mike Bird and Tom Wright field listener questions exploring:

1. The prominence of demonic activity during Jesus’ ministry and its significance for Christians today;
2. The attraction of high church traditions (liturgical, sacramental) among young Christians disenchanted with evangelicalism;
3. Whether Christians should observe Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday.

Wright brings his characteristic nuance and wide-ranging biblical scholarship to the topics, referencing his pastoral experiences, scriptural insights, and practical advice for churches and individuals navigating spiritual questions.

Discussion Highlights

1. Demonic Activity in the New Testament

Listener Question (Charlotte, London):
Is there a correlation between the arrival of Jesus and the noticeable increase in demonic activity in the New Testament? Did this activity exist before Jesus’ birth? Should Christians focus on dark spiritual forces or seek to be “seers” of the spiritual realm?

Key Points & Insights

• Personal Background – Spiritual Warfare:

  • Wright grew up with little emphasis on spiritual warfare, moving gradually into understanding its reality through ministry and scholarly work.
  • Michael Green’s I Believe in Satan’s Downfall was foundational in shaping Wright’s thinking.
    • “Michael had become involved... with people who were shrieking or yelling things at him, which sounded exactly like when demon-possessed people shrieked at Jesus.” (05:53)

• Paul’s Perspective on Demons:

  • Paul recognizes dark spiritual forces (“daimonia”), especially connected to idol temples and pagan practices (1 Corinthians 8–10).
  • These forces aim to “spoil God’s good creation and pull it down.” (07:20)

• Present Reality of Evil:

  • Modern Westerners often dismiss spiritual evil as outdated, but Wright notes movements in recent history where "wickedness is more than the sum total of half a dozen evil people" (09:10), suggesting the influence of dark forces at systemic and social levels.

• Jesus & Increase in Demonic Activity:

  • The arrival of Jesus and his proclamation of God’s kingdom acts as a catalyst:
    • “When Jesus comes into Galilee and starts saying the kingdom of God is at hand, it is as though suddenly all the furniture starts flying around the room.” (11:02)
    • The demonic realm “realize they’re in serious trouble.”
  • Jewish practice acknowledged exorcism and deliverance prior to Jesus, though the Gospels portray a surge in visible conflict (“acceleration and a publicness about the demonic activity once Jesus starts announcing the kingdom”—15:27).

• The Cross & Defeat of Darkness:

  • Jesus' journey to the cross is “going into the very heart of darkness… in order to defeat the power of that darkness, and the resurrection says it’s done, it’s finished, it’s over.” (13:40)

• Cautions for Christians:

  • Wright urges balance:
    • “We have to be very careful of going down that route [of dark fascination]. That just colludes with a sense of dark fascination. Ought to avoid like the plague.” (15:22)
  • A minority in the church are specifically called and gifted for ministries of spiritual discernment and deliverance; these should be authorized, discreet, and well supported by prayer teams.
    • “It’s a messy world, a murky, nasty world… To clean that out in the name and power of Jesus is a great gift, but it’s also hard work and messy work.” (11:55–12:25)

Notable Moments & Quotes

• “We live between the initial victory [of Christ] and the final victory… There are dark forces out there, and we need to be aware of that while being supremely aware that in his death and resurrection, Jesus has won the victory over them.” – Tom Wright (09:52)
• “It’s like cleaning out the toilets.” (12:00) – On the realities of exorcism ministry.

Timestamps

• Background & Approach: 05:42–09:10
• Biblical Foundations & Societal Evil: 09:10–10:54
• Practical Experience of Deliverance Ministry: 10:54–12:55
• Jesus’ Arrival and the Demonic: 13:13–15:27
• Caution and Advice: 15:27–16:07

2. Can Christians Be Demon-Possessed? Should the Church Appoint Exorcists?

Listener Follow-up (Mike Bird):
Can Christians be demon-possessed, and should churches officially appoint exorcists?

Key Points

• Baptism is a strong “wall” against full demonic possession, even for those who were baptized as infants with little understanding.
• Christians may be afflicted or oppressed by demonic forces, but full possession is unlikely for the baptized.
  • “If somebody has been baptized… the baptism itself seems to put a wall against serious major full-on demonic possession.” (17:17)
• Ministry of exorcism should be official, authorized, accountable, and rooted in the praying life of the broader church—not left to freelancers or enthusiasts.
  • “These were people who were authorized by bishop, who were prayed for... and who would report back.” (18:24)

Timestamps

• Theological & Practical Perspective: 17:08–19:54

3. Young Christians & High Church Traditions

Listener Question (Taylor, Birmingham, Alabama):
What’s drawing many young Christians from evangelical backgrounds towards high church, liturgical traditions? Should I become Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic… or even Anglican?

Key Points

• Context of Shift:

  • Many evangelical/fundamentalist churches in the American South are defined by strict doctrinal positions and politics, sometimes reactionary against Roman Catholicism.
  • Liturgy (“high church”) and Catholicism offer unity, history, and sacraments missing in fragmented evangelical contexts.

• “High” vs. “Low” Church:

  • Wright traces the symbolism, history, and class associations behind “high” (liturgical, sacramental, processional) and “low” (more casual, extemporaneous) church divides.

• Nature of Worship:

  • Worship styles serve as “wine glasses” — the Gospel is the “wine,” and whether fine or simple, the important thing is the real encounter with Jesus.
    • “The more elaborate services are like the fine wine glass… If you want to take it seriously, you don’t just want to mess around as though you could drift in and out of God’s presence.” (25:46)
  • Not about escaping idolatry or flippancy by going “high” or “low”; both forms can nurture or stifle true faith.
  • Personality, culture, and context matter, but the core is:
    • “The really important thing is constantly to be refreshed in who Jesus is, what the breaking of bread is all about.” (28:51)

• Advice to Seekers:

  • Try different traditions; seek spiritual guidance; find the place that deepens love of God and neighbor.
  • “There is folly in all quarters of the church... There is also extraordinary holiness and grace in all corners of the church.” (29:20)
  • No “one size fits all”; explore with prayer and discernment.

Notable Quotes

• “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if… we were able to move this way and that and find space for one another so that we could all worship in ways that we found more and more drawing us out of ourselves to adore the God in whose image we’re made?” – Tom Wright (29:59)
• Mike Bird’s summary:
  • “Liturgies and sacraments are props, holy props to do that very thing.” (30:33)

Timestamps

• Listener’s Story & Context: 19:54–22:29
• Tom’s Response: 22:29–30:13
• Mike's Summary: 30:13–30:33

4. Should Christians Observe the Sabbath on Saturday?

Listener Question (Malcolm Heap, UK):
If Sabbath is Saturday in the Old Testament, is it right for Christians to keep Sunday instead? Should we keep the biblical Sabbath?

Key Points

• Biblical Background:

  • In Judaism, Sabbath is a foretaste of the age to come—a “day when we can imagine we’re already there.”
    • “On Shabbat, on the Sabbath, we do the things which say we are already living in God’s new age.” (34:22)

• Jesus’ Fulfillment of Sabbath:

  • Jesus’ healings on the Sabbath are not anti-law but indications that God’s future is breaking into the present.
  • New Testament lists of commandments omit Sabbath because, “the true Sabbath, the arrival of God's kingdom on earth as in heaven, has actually happened and is happening.” (36:11–36:28)
  • Christians gather on Sunday to mark the resurrection—the arrival of new creation—and so the “anticipatory” Sabbath sign is replaced by resurrection reality.
    • “You don’t put up a sign in Times Square saying ‘this way to New York’ because you’re already there.” (36:57)

• Sunday is not a “Christian Sabbath”:

  • Early Christians worshipped on Sunday not by switching Sabbath laws to a new day, but as a celebration of resurrection.
  • “Don’t forget every time the commandments are listed in the New Testament, the Sabbath is missing. That’s not accidental.” (40:18)

• Practical Considerations:

  • The “discipline of a day which is quite different” and of rest is valuable but shouldn’t be legalistic.
  • For clergy, Sunday is often the busiest day, necessitating rest at other times.

• Recommended Reading:

  • Mike Bird cites Hugh Williamson & Don Carson, From Sabbath to Lord’s Day as a classic study.

Notable Quotes

• “The Sabbath is the anticipation of the age to come, which has arrived in Jesus, and that arrival is best celebrated on a Sunday.” – Tom Wright (40:32)

Timestamps

• Listener's Question & Background: 32:48–34:03
• Tom’s Teaching: 34:03–41:53
• Mike’s Further Reflections: 41:53–43:09

Memorable Quotes & Moments

“When Jesus comes into Galilee and starts saying the kingdom of God is at hand, it is as though suddenly all the furniture starts flying around the room.”
— Tom Wright (11:02)

“If somebody has been baptized… that baptism itself seems to put a wall against serious major full-on demonic possession.”
— Tom Wright (17:17)

“The more elaborate services are like the fine wine glass… But actually, if you want to take it seriously, then you don't just want to mess around.”
— Tom Wright (25:46)

“Don’t forget that every time the commandments are listed in the New Testament, the Sabbath is missing… because the Sabbath is the anticipation of the age to come, which has arrived in Jesus.”
— Tom Wright (40:18)

Summary Table of Key Topics with Timestamps

| Topic | Main Speaker | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------|-------------| | Intro, Tom’s personal winter habits | Mike Bird & Tom Wright | 01:45–03:45 | | Demonic activity & Jesus’ ministry | Tom Wright | 05:42–16:07 | | Can Christians be possessed? Church exorcists | Tom Wright | 17:08–19:54 | | Appeal of high church traditions | Tom Wright | 22:29–30:13 | | What to look for in a church | Mike Bird & Tom Wright | 30:13–30:33 | | Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday? | Tom Wright | 34:03–41:53 | | Book recommendation, wrap-up | Mike Bird | 41:53–43:09 |

Conclusion

This episode tackles tough and practical spiritual questions with wisdom and humor. Wright urges listeners to resist both naivety and obsession regarding spiritual evil, to pursue spiritually nourishing church traditions with discernment, and to understand Sunday worship as celebration of Christ's resurrection rather than mere Sabbath-keeping. Throughout, there’s a consistent emphasis on balance, pastoral care, rootedness in Scripture, and the freedom to grow in Christ amidst the church’s diverse expressions.

For more episodes and bonus content, visit Ask NT Wright Anything.