Aspire with Gwyneth Paltrow: Why Being Early Is Better Than Being Liked

Summary

Podcast Summary: Aspire with Emma Grede – "Aspire with Gwyneth Paltrow: Why Being Early Is Better Than Being Liked"

Introduction In this episode of Aspire with Emma Grede, host Emma Grede engages in an in-depth conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow, the Oscar-winning actress and founder of the global lifestyle brand GOOP. Released on May 6, 2025, the episode delves into Gwyneth's entrepreneurial journey, the challenges she's faced, her leadership philosophy, and personal insights that have shaped her path to success.

1. Transition from Acting to Entrepreneurship Gwyneth Paltrow discusses her pivot from a flourishing acting career to founding GOOP. She credits her family's involvement in the entertainment industry and her burnout from excessive work as pivotal factors leading her to entrepreneurship.

“...I really kind of burnt out. And also it was at a time... I had my daughter and I was just like, I think I need to not do this right now. Like, I need a break...” ([03:50])

2. The Organic Birth of GOOP Initially, GOOP began as a simple newsletter where Gwyneth aggregated recommendations based on her personal experiences and the advice she sought during her acting career. Without a clear business model, she shared tips on everything from the best pizza spots to essential household items.

“It was actually let me aggregate all of this information that I have somewhere.” ([06:53])

Gwyneth emphasizes the authenticity of GOOP's early days, focusing on sharing genuine recommendations before contemplating monetization.

3. Monetization and Business Development After several years of sharing free content, Gwyneth realized the potential to monetize GOOP through e-commerce. A pivotal moment occurred when a reader expressed frustration over not being able to purchase recommended products directly, inspiring Gwyneth to integrate commerce with content.

“When I did a piece on the French pharmacy... she said it was so frustrating because I was spent like 3 hours on Amazon.fr trying to buy the lip balm. I thought, oh, my gosh, this could actually be commerce as a service...” ([11:06])

4. Building the Team and Overcoming Challenges As GOOP evolved, Gwyneth faced significant challenges, including relocating the company to Los Angeles and expanding her team. She highlights the importance of hiring passionate individuals over seasoned experts, fostering a culture of problem-solving and excellence.

“I was always that person for my friends. So finally I was like, maybe I should just put all this in a website...” ([06:36])

5. Resilience in Leadership Gwyneth shares moments where she contemplated quitting GOOP, especially during crises like the COVID-19 pandemic and internal team challenges. She underscores resilience as a crucial trait for entrepreneurs, shaped by her upbringing and experiences in the acting industry.

“I never quit. Like, one of those things, you know, you punch and they pop.” ([32:01])

6. Navigating Backlash and Setting Trends GOOP has often been ahead of its time, leading to mixed public reactions. Gwyneth reflects on how pioneering concepts like "conscious uncoupling" initially faced skepticism but eventually gained widespread acceptance.

“At some point... everything always does drive traffic to the site.” ([27:06])

7. Leadership Style and Personal Growth Gwyneth describes herself as a collaborative and inclusive leader striving to balance warmth with decisiveness. She acknowledges the challenges of holding team members accountable while maintaining a harmonious work environment.

“I approach it like, I am an extremely collaborative, I think, leader. And I think sometimes it's actually been to the detriment of the business.” ([38:09])

8. Handling Mistakes and Business Pivots Gwyneth emphasizes the importance of admitting mistakes and pivoting quickly to maintain business viability. She shares insights on letting go of unsuccessful ventures and focusing on GOOP's core strengths in beauty, fashion, and food.

“Every single mistake, like when I'm on my deathbed, when I look back at my life, those will have been the mistakes that I made.” ([77:49])

9. Advice for Aspiring Founders Gwyneth offers valuable advice to budding entrepreneurs, urging them to pursue ventures that are essential to their passion and well-being.

“The most important thing I always say to founders, like, is it going to kill you not to do this? Otherwise, don't do it.” ([62:59])

10. Personal Reflections and Future Aspirations Gwyneth discusses her ongoing journey towards self-love and balancing healthy ambition with addressing personal insecurities. She aspires for GOOP to continue scaling while eventually transitioning to a legacy brand that transcends her personal involvement.

“...I feel like I am coming into an era where I have really figured out so much balance...” ([75:21])

11. Rapid Fire Segment In a lighthearted rapid-fire round, Gwyneth shares personal habits and preferences, highlighting her warm and goofy personality, which contrasts with public perceptions of her.

“You wake up, Please cuddle my husband.” ([72:58]).

Conclusion The episode concludes with Gwyneth affirming her deep connection to GOOP and her commitment to maintaining its authenticity and excellence. Her journey underscores the importance of resilience, authenticity, and continuous personal growth in building a sustainable and impactful business.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “The most important thing I always say to founders, like, is it going to kill you not to do this? Otherwise, don't do it.” — Gwyneth Paltrow ([02:01])
• “I'm an introvert. I don't like being in front of people. I don't like being in front of a camera.” — Gwyneth Paltrow ([62:37])
• “I have dreams of, like, going back to being founder, you know, and having somebody else... do what I find harder.” — Gwyneth Paltrow ([53:56])

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity Matters: GOOP's success is rooted in genuine content and product curation, reflecting Gwyneth's personal experiences and values.
• Resilience is Crucial: Overcoming challenges and maintaining perseverance are essential for entrepreneurial success.
• Adaptability and Pivoting: Being willing to let go of unsuccessful ventures and focusing on core strengths ensures long-term sustainability.
• Leadership Balance: Combining warmth with decisiveness creates a productive and harmonious work environment.
• Personal Growth Influences Business: Continuous self-reflection and addressing personal insecurities contribute to effective leadership and business strategy.

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Gwyneth Paltrow's discussion on entrepreneurship, leadership, and personal growth, providing valuable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs and those interested in the dynamics of building a successful lifestyle brand.

Transcript

[Emma Grede]

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

The most important thing I always say to founders, like, is it going to kill you not to do this? Otherwise, don't, don't do it. Don't do it. You know, it was so me the way I got divorced. I was like, okay, like, what is the best way to do this? Like, let me go gather data from everyone who was raised. That's the beautiful thing about being a founder and an entrepreneur. Like, I don't think you ever learn as much about who you actually are and what you're made of.

[Emma Grede]

My guest today is someone whose first name is all the introduction she needs. She's an Oscar winning actress and the founder and CEO who built GOOP from a simple little newsletter into a global lifestyle brand. Now, depending on who you ask, she's a visionary. She's. She's a cultural lightning rod. She's out of touch, she's ahead of her time. She's doing too much, not enough. Or maybe she's just doing what she wants to be doing and what only she can. Welcome Gwyneth Paltrow to Aspire.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm so thrilled to be here.

[Emma Grede]

I'm so happy to have you. Just really, really excited to have the conversation.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's such an honor, honestly.

[Emma Grede]

You're so lovely for saying that. So I want to take you back a little bit because I think we all know you how we know you. We know you as Gwyneth, the actress. The Oscar winning actress, I should say. But I think that for so many people, you know, we think that there's a time and a moment in our career where there's a pivot on the horizon where we're in something. And whether we like it or not, whether we need to or not, there's kind of this burning desire to do something else. And I'm so impressed with you because almost like at the height of your career, you decided, I'm going to do something else. So I want you to kind of take me back to 2008. Maybe it's even before 2008 when you were like, noodling. What gave you the idea that you should start your own company?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I guess idiocy, naivete. I mean, foolhardiness. I was so lucky to have the acting career that I had. My mom is an incredible actress. My dad made TV shows, so I grew up very much in it. And my mom, when she was on stage, she was the most whole synthesized, alive version of herself. And so I wanted to do that. I wanted to be on stage and feel that power that she was kind of radiating. And I had my heart set on that path. And I never really even thought about anything else. I was like, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do. And I did it. I had a lot of success. I wasn't good at saying no. So I was doing like three movies a year, five movies a year, and I really kind of burnt out. And also it was at a time, you know, I think I hope Hollywood's a bit better now, but it was a bit, you know, sort of sexist culture in certain respects. And I don't know, it's just. I had my daughter and I was just like, I think I need to not do this right now. Like, I need a break. I need to put this down. I want to be home. Luckily, I could afford to take a break and not go back to work. And I just kind of took three years and had my kids. And I really started to question why I had decided to act. Did I really want to? Did I still love it? It was like a lot. I kind of gave myself the space to examine it and reflect. And I was like, I just don't know how I feel about it. And at the same time, I had been doing movies all over and I had always had this incredible curiosity when I was, you know, filming in Naples or Paris or Toronto, like, where do I go? And this is pre Internet, right? So, like, where's the best pizza? Like, is there a good, you know, pajama store? Like, where are all the cool kids going? And there was like no way to find that information. There was no like aggregation of, of tips that were resonant for me. And so I would always take notes and I would ask the cool makeup girls, what bars do you go to? Even in Paris, sometimes if there was a really cool looking person, I would stop them on the street and be like, can you give me your five best Paris things? So I kept these reams of information. And then at the same time, because I was acting and I earn money before my friends and I bought a house before my friends, I learned to cook before my friends, and I learned to pick out wallpaper before my friends. So my friends would be like, how do I roast a chicken? Or where can I go buy a pound?

[Emma Grede]

Were you that person at that time?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I was that person to you for that. I was always that person. So finally I was like, maybe I should just put all this in a website that was very new on the Internet. And that was sort of. That's how basic it was and how my heart felt. And yeah, it was just so it.

[Emma Grede]

Wasn'T like, let me create a business that takes me away from this Oscar winning life. It was actually let me aggregate all of this information that I have somewhere.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And then I think I had a secret. I was harboring like a secret desire that maybe I could turn it into a business at some point. But of course, I didn't have the authority, I didn't know how. So I just thought, you know, I'll just. This is like, I have such a Passion for me. I'm just gonna do this and then I'll see maybe if anything comes out of it at some point in the future.

[Emma Grede]

So point. Did you get the idea that this was something that you could actually monetize and turn into a proper business?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So it's funny because. So I think for about four or five years, there was no monetization.

[Emma Grede]

I was just long.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Oh, I was just writing newsletters.

[Emma Grede]

No.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And people would stop me and say, like, what are you going to do and what are you going to do with this? And I. I didn't know. I didn't. I didn't even know how to think my way around. Like, I didn't even know what business models could be applicable to something like. Cause this was like, pre. You know, this was really early.

[Emma Grede]

And so at this point, it's like, you. Did you rope in a couple of, like, journalist friends?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's like, what did you mean? No, I was by myself.

[Emma Grede]

And you're like.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I, like, learned how to mess around with Mailchimp and WordPress. And it was like, me and I had an assistant and that was it.

[Emma Grede]

And you would just decide a subject. Did you have a grand plan? Did you have, like, a content plan and an idea of what you're putting out or where you just like, this is what I feel like.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

This is just what I feel like.

[Emma Grede]

Wow. So it really was that organic. And it stays that way for four or five years with.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It stays that way.

[Emma Grede]

Zero. Monetization, zero. But weren't you a bit like, I'm winning. I need to, like, I'm giving these tips. I need to see some kind of backend. Because I would be like that. I'd be like, what is happening? I'm giving this free information out. Somebody pay me. I'm always looking for something.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I know, but this is why you're where you are, and this is why we're so. Because I think as an artist, you create to create. You create to put something out in the world. And you don't really think. I mean, of course you get a paycheck, but it's not kind of the burning reason why you're doing something. And it's only in business when you start to reframe it and think, like, okay, what's the ROI on all my time? So that was like a slower burn for me. But at a certain point, you know, when I had ended up investing a lot of money in this business, of course, I thought, you know, maybe. Maybe I should try to think about how to monetize it. And. And then. And then other people were saying, you know, you've really got something here. You've got a ton of engagement. And. And so that's when I started to think about how. And I started with some partnerships. Basically, it was kind of like a mini media model.

[Emma Grede]

Brand partnerships?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, like, brand partnerships.

[Emma Grede]

You said that you'd put a ton of money in. This was your own money, or had you started to raise at that point?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No, my own money.

[Emma Grede]

So you took your own money that you had, you know, earned, and you just plowed it in, thinking, I just. I love this. I'm a creative who wants to give something back, and that's just where my heart says to go.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

Wow. That was unbelievable. Okay, so at what point did you have the realization that this is something that could pay?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's interesting because. So we kind of had a media model at first, and people were paying and sponsoring shoots. And I thought, like, this feels fine, but it also feels like the reason that this works and is resonant with people is because it's really authentic. And I started to worry that if it was me being paid to talk about things, even though I was super strict, like, it had to be a brand that I genuinely loved or used, you know, that makes the aperture really narrow. And also, I didn't want to be a content factory and I didn't want, like a clicks model and all this. So I had done this piece, this content piece on the French pharmacy. Like, all of the great things that have, you know, and that, like, you go to Paris and it's like, all the things. So I did a piece, a content piece on all the things that I loved from the French pharmacy. And it was like, you know, the Retin A cream, the retinue, and really.

[Emma Grede]

Sacrament, like, all the things we make.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Homeoplasmine and all the things.

[Emma Grede]

You know, I still use that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Me too. And I was on the street and a woman stopped me and she said, oh, my gosh, I love Goop. I love your newsletter. I wait for it every Thursday. I love the piece on the French pharmacy. But she said it was so frustrating because I was spent like 3 hours on Amazon.fr trying to buy the lip balm. And she said, I wish I could have just clicked to buy it. And I thought, oh, my gosh, this could actually be commerce as a service as opposed to a transaction.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I was like, this is actually valuable for her if I. If I offer things to buy. And so that's how the e commerce started.

[Emma Grede]

Wow. That's unbelievable. And at that point, I just don't think there were that many editorialized platforms that were doing that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Emma Grede]

Like, even the model wasn't fully fleshed. It certainly wasn't what it is today.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Absolutely not. There was no, no, no model for that. There was. It was really, really early.

[Emma Grede]

So you're, you're there, you understand. There's a glimmer of an idea here. How do you go about building a team, raising money? I feel like, you know, because I think that we look at you and we're like, yeah, she has. Must have had it all figured out. But it does feel like this business came about in such an organic way, and so many people that are listening will be sitting in their corporate jobs or thinking about starting a business. Where did you start? How did you start with those things?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So it's. So I was actually at a cocktail party in London at a friend's house, and this woman came up to me and she said, hi, I'm Juliet, I'm a vc. And I was like, what's a vc? You know, and she was like, were you? Yeah, I had no idea.

[Emma Grede]

English, Juliet.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

English Juliet.

[Emma Grede]

No, I love Juliet. I love Giovanna. I mean, she's one of my favorite people.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

She's incredible.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, she's incredible. And a huge champion of female founders.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Huge, huge. And she said, you know, I really love what you're doing and what are you doing and do you want to turn it into a business? And I said, I do, but I don't really know how to do it. And she actually introduced me to my first CEO, a guy named Seb Bishop, whom I adore, and I'm still really close. In fact, I just had his birthday party at my house last week, and he came on board and he helped me start to think my way around how to do this and how to build a team. And he was running Project Red at the time for Bono, and he was ready to kind of go back into E Commerce. And so we started to build a team and started to do collaborations and started to, you know, develop a supply chain and, you know, build an E Commerce engine on the site, which we chose the wrong one, but that's fine. And it was like just a slow process of us thinking through how we were going to, you know, offer this curation and offer special product to people. And that was kind of like phase one. It was when I was in London, very early stages of goop. I had another CEO and then I was going to move back to LA or not move to la and unfortunately, his mother became ill with leukemia, so he couldn't come. And that's when I moved and I really started trying to run this thing kind of by myself.

[Emma Grede]

So it was not a conscious decision. I'm going to get rid of this guy and become the CEO. That just going to happen to you? You move back to L. A. And what's. Like, what is. What does the business look like at this point? Was it like a functioning business with a staff and, you know, a set of, you know, priorities and a business plan, or is it still something that you're just figuring out and tinkering with?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Still trying to figure it out. I was trying to just get people around me who were really passionate. I had this little team in London which I knew was going to be really hard to keep while we were in la. And so I was slowly, kind of. I was repatriating the company here, and I had this little barn out back in my house in Brentwood. And, you know, slowly there was one woman there with me, then two, then three, then there were eight. You know, then we were starting to build our own product lines and we grew.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, you started that early?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

We started, I think, in 2016. We started with our first product lines. Wow.

[Emma Grede]

But it feels. First of all, I think it's so interesting that you say you started to hire people that were really passionate, because I always hire first passion and, you know, attitude over experience. You weren't trying to look for, like, E. Com experts. You were like, who cares about what I'm doing?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes, because I think in a way, the model was really evolving and it still is. And so I think one of the mistakes I've made, you know, subsequent to that is sort of like outsourcing expertise in a way where there's not flexibility. And I find with people who are really passionate, they're like problem solving, you know, as opposed to, like, I was here, this was a playbook. This is how it worked. This is what I want to bring to goop. Like, that tends not to work for us. So sometimes I think, you know, it's difficult to find people who have domain expertise and are really passionate. But I agree with you. I think that passion is what's going to drive the curiosity and the problem solving more than domain expertise.

[Emma Grede]

I couldn't agree with you more because I feel like when you get really seasoned experts, my number one thing is that I need you to also be flexible. Because if you're coming to me from any other company where you've had this, like, real understanding of the business. I want that experience, but I need you to come to me and have the flexibility to do things differently.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I'm trying to remember what year it was. It was probably, you know, I want to say 2013, 2014, 2015 in there somewhere.

[Emma Grede]

That's interesting because that's almost eight, well, six, seven years after you started. So a long journey of, like, figuring this out and trying to understand what it was.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

A long journey of trying to figure it out. And then I started to coalesce around, like, I think our unique proposition, which is to curate that clean beauty was super important to us. You know, we were so early in that space, people, and at that point, we were curating other people's products before we started to make our own. There was really no, like, kind of more aspirational, efficacious, truly clean, clean beauty. So we were like, okay, well, we'll make it. But the reason why we started to raise money, essentially was because my biggest investor, he invested in another company. And they were at their board meeting and they were reviewing the numbers for the. And early in the quarter, like, all of a sudden, you know, say it was like, customers down here. The customer acquisition count jumped way up. And then for the rest of the quarter, it was like a really high quality customer, really, you know, they had come back and back. There was a great ltv.

[Emma Grede]

And so your cohorts were banging, or they were banging in the other business.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

They were banging the other business.

[Emma Grede]

Got it. Got it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And my investor said, what happened on this day? And they said, we were on this thing called goop.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, bad thing to happen, too. He's seeing it somewhere else. You didn't even need to tell him.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Exactly. So he called me, actually, and that's how I first took venture money and how I started to put the plan together of how we were gonna do this and create a business.

[Emma Grede]

Did you have a plan for the money? And were you the CEO at that point when you raised.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

We had an interim CEO when I was kind of learning and so. Which was really helpful because she kind of. You know, I still have a really hard time asking for money.

[Emma Grede]

You do?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I do. I don't like fundraising.

[Emma Grede]

Really.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I don't like.

[Emma Grede]

But you'd be so good at it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I just don't. I just don't like it. I just.

[Emma Grede]

You are kidding me. Oh, my gosh. I would love to be you fundraising. I'd be like, in my ball gown, just, like, coming in. I would love it. I've arrived. I do a speech. Honestly, I feel like it would be so powerful to be you fundraising.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And, you know, I think also because when I went out and started doing it on my own, I think it wasn't. It's very, as you know, I mean, maybe not for you, but it was really hard. It was hard to raise money. I think a lot of people took the meeting because their wife was a fan. They wanted a selfie and they wanted to see you. They wanted me and they weren't serious about the business. And I had so many no's.

[Emma Grede]

Could you, can you detect that? Like, how's your bullshit, Armita? Did you walk in and be like, I ain't getting this check?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

At first I was like, oh, they're so nice. They're gonna write, you know, and then I was like, oh, this is just a selfie meeting. This is a selfie meeting.

[Emma Grede]

Fair enough. Yeah. That's like very, very difficult.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

So you raise your first bit of money. You have an interim CEO at the time, you have a plan for something that's really emerging. Is there a moment that you sit back and you're like, okay, this is a serious business for me now. This is something that's actually going to be my life and not kind of these recommendations and this fun sort of purpose driven thing for me. It's actually going to make it, make me a bunch of money.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, I'm still waiting for that to.

[Emma Grede]

Happen, but more about that later.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But yes, I mean, I started to feel that what we were doing also had, I think our values are and were so strong. I really believed in what we were doing. I really believe in not only clean beauty and clean products, but this idea of being of service to busy working mothers who want the best of the best quickly. They want to know how to optimize themselves. They want to know how I am optimizing myself. They want access to good information, good recipes. Like, they don't want to waste any time. And I love providing that. As I said when I started, that's who I always had been to my friends. And I love being that for the women in the GOOP community and the men too, you know, So I thought it was a very worthwhile pursuit. And also it's really fun to sort of, you know, when you're an actor, you're kind of waiting for someone to give you a job. Like, you can't really express yourself. You know, it's like if you're a musician, you can pick up a guitar, a writer, you can sit down and write. But when you're an actor, what are you going to do go in there and do a monologue in the mirror. And it's very frustrating.

[Emma Grede]

I never thought about that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's like you don't have agency. And I think this is why a lot of actors are drawn to become entrepreneurs, because it's kind of a twin spirit. But you can actually execute on something that you can ideate, you can execute, you can put it into the world. It is yours. And it feels like it, but it does have that artistic streak running through it.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, no, I completely understand that. And I think especially when you're in a business like the one that you've created, because it does feel so intrinsically you. There's things that we didn't used to say that we didn't used to know. And you constantly have introduced new ideas, I think, to the culture. Right to the culture at large. But you also got your fair share of backlash for that. And I feel like for. Well, certainly for women more generally, but female founders, female CEOs, they just get it so much harder than men. Did you anticipate that and then when it started to happen to you? Because I feel like there's parts of. There's parts and times when, you know, the headlines of, I'm sure, have been very beneficial to your business. But there's also times where it just feels like it's just been vicious. And I wonder how you dealt with that. Sides of it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So in the early days, it was really hard. It was really hurtful because, you know, it was coming from the best possible place. And, you know, and also, to be honest, I have always been really ahead of the curve. So I would talk about something, write about something, and people would freak the fuck out.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. We'd all be like, what?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And then. And now they're like multiple. You know, it's like. I remember when I wrote my cookbook called It's All Good, and it was because my son had really bad eczema. And the pediatrician said, you got to cut out gluten and dairy and sugar. I was like, with a toddler. And so I did this book and there was one headline that somebody should call social services on me. That kind of thing. And now, of course, gluten free is a trillion dollar industry. But what started to happen was by pattern recognition, I could say, okay, I'm going to say something. I'm going to talk about, you know, how I'm addressing an issue, whether it's divorce, whether it's, you know, trying to get my kid off gluten for a time, being whatever and everyone's gonna freak out, and then everybody's gonna adopt it. And. And so I, you know, I think I. I was able to get that perspective, but it. It didn't mean that it didn't hurt. I mean, luckily, it's like all that stuff always does drive traffic to the site.

[Emma Grede]

Thank goodness.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And one time I did, you know, like a sort of sentiment thing. And even when. Even like, if people were like, oh, we don't, like, goop this week because, like, she did some said something crazy or we don't, you know, it always went up and to the right.

[Emma Grede]

Like, yes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, the. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

We were still coming there to look and to buy. And the curiosity was such a huge part of what you had. And I do think that you introduced ideas, like, you know, conscious uncoupling. Like, I remember reading that and being like, God, like, what is she talking about? But then it was so, like. It was like a revelation and a breakthrough, and it wasn't like it wasn't happening. But you put a label on it for people that was like, this is it. This is how you do it. This is what you call it, and this is what it looks like in real life. And it was just such a moment, I think.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, God, and at the time, if you can imagine, you know, I'm really suffering, right. I'm getting a divorce. I'm getting separated. I have little kids. And I really believed in what we were doing. It's basically that all started because it was so me. The way I got divorced. I was like, okay, what is the best way to do this? Let me go gather data from everyone who was raised from a divorced family.

[Emma Grede]

And figure out what is the way to optimize the decision.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

What is the way to optimize this? It's not what I want. You know, we all want to, like, be married to the parent forever. But so I was like, how should I do this? And I actually talked to a lot of people who were children of divorce. And the common denominator. What everybody said. It wasn't that their parents got a divorce. It was that their parents. It's that they. 1. You know, a dad would drop them off the end of the driveway.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And be like, I'll see you next week. I don't want to see your mother. It's that the mother would roll her eyes or say something bad about the father. And that was. Had hurt the kids and caused the trauma.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt. It's the dysfunction between the two parents playing out and the kids Having to choose sides and decide what to do exactly. And that is the opposite of the way your life works now, because you have one big, beautiful blended family.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's really nice, and it wasn't easy to do. You know, it definitely took a lot of work. But I remember at some point, like, the therapist that we were working with kind of was talking us through something, and I had a penny drop, and I thought, you know, we're not a couple anymore, but we're a family. We are a family, and we're gonna be a family forever. And let's figure out how to be a family without being a couple. And so that's sort of how it all came about.

[Emma Grede]

No, it's incredible. I do think, though, you're someone who is so resilient, and that is an attribute. No, I mean, I mean, you must be, because otherwise you'd just be a puddle of a woman. The amount of mean things that have been written about you and said about you. And I often think that when I meet female or any founders. Right. Resilience is such a key attribute when you start a business because so much goes wrong, so much is thrown at you. So, you know, things that you could never anticipate. How do you think about building your resilience? Is this something that is just, it's in you and you were always like that, or is it a muscle and you've trained yourself to become more resilient? I just wonder how you even think, or do you think about it at all?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I don't think about resiliency. I, I, I was raised to be resilient.

[Emma Grede]

Right.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Um, my father really made me stand on my own two feet as a kid. You know, I think the ways in which, you know, we all grew up in a time where, you know, as we were talking about before, it was different. Right. And so I think we all had some degrees of adversity in our households, which made us resilient. Then I chose acting, which is like 7,000 no's. You're not good enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not this, you're not that, and just, you know, kept going. And I think it's because, like, it's almost like if you are holding your future and you believe, like, you can see it and you know that it's yours and it's for you and it's coming, you have no choice but to get up and just keep going, keep trying, you know, looking at something differently. What am I doing wrong? Why did I get this hit? Like, is there A better way I can say this or do this. And it's been, like, one long exercise in resiliency, I think. And I know never give up. I never quit. Like, I think part of that is really intrinsic to me. Like, there are certain circumstances where. That I've been in where I feel like, you know, it probably would be a lot easier to bow out of this, but that's just not me. I'm like, one of those things, you know, you. You punch and they pop.

[Emma Grede]

But it's so interesting because I think that is what makes an incredible entrepreneur, because people imagine once you're out of a situation where somebody else is telling you what to do, that suddenly it gets easier. And I think when the decision is all on you to go left or to go right, it actually is so much harder. And there are things that happen in companies, and I know that you've been through lots, and you must have over all of the years. There are so many difficult decisions to make. Is there ever a time when you are like, I actually can't do that. This is just too much. Have you had those moments in the company where you're like, I just can't go?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes. Multiple. Yeah, multiple moments. I mean, I really thought when Covid happened that we were going to go out of business. I had one sort of period in our history where I had the wrong team, and they were not. Some of them were not putting the goop business first. And it almost all fell apart, like, in a terrible way. People that you trusted, people that I trusted. I was like, I'm done. I can't do it. Then I had. All of our money was in a bank that collapsed a couple years ago. Oh, remember that? Yeah. Remember that little crumble? Yeah, that little thing. I was like, okay. Like, there have been so many, you know, even. And then. Even sometimes I think. Because it compounds, right? And it's like, sometimes I've had days like that where, you know, I don't know, they change the Facebook algorithm, and you can't, like, get a customer.

[Emma Grede]

What?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And you're like, I quit. I just can't do this anymore. I don't know how to make it work anymore. I don't know. I can't scale this business if they keep changing the algorithm, you know, so. So it's just like. I think it. It is. It does wear you down. And some. Some events feel catastrophic, like a bank collapse or when you are like, am I going to make payroll or not? And some of them feel small, but I think I have them all the time. I think all founders have them all the time. And at a certain point, for me, anyway, I was like, when I gave myself permission to let it collapse, I was like. Because that was the thing I was holding against myself. If this doesn't work, I am a failure. I am a bad person. Like, I am not worth it. And I sort of had to go through the exercise of, like, if it fails, I will be okay.

[Emma Grede]

Yes, it will fail.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It fails, and I will still wake up in the morning. Like, I thought I had conflated it. I thought, like, if it fails, I die.

[Emma Grede]

I fail, and I can never do this again, and I'm not worthy. And it's because of me. And I think that that is such a. A female point of view. And I talk about this all the time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You're right.

[Emma Grede]

Also, because we're not giving grace, you know, in the media, in the business community, it's like this woman did this thing again. And it's like, you know, men get to start and fail and lose and piss people's money away. I mean, it's all the time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's incredible.

[Emma Grede]

Such a double standard out there.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I talk about this all the time, too.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think that you've become better at dealing with those things, or do you think that you'll forever relate to them in that way? And you've just, like, you're strengthening that muscle to get through it? I wonder if it actually changes over the years.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think it does change, because now I think what happens is I now have the experience, and I have all of the dharma, all of the work I've put in, and I keep somehow making it through. Yes, you did. I keep getting to new milestones, and I'm not where I want to be yet. But, like, it's been a long. It's 17 years of this, you know? Like, even though it wasn't a company at first, but sending out this newsletter, it'll be 17 years. So did you ever think, never when.

[Emma Grede]

You started, that 17 years later you'd still be doing this?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Never. Never. I just can't imagine. I still love it.

[Emma Grede]

You do?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I still love it.

[Emma Grede]

I love that you still love it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I love it. It's so hard, but it's so rewarding. And I love the people that I work with, and I've learned so much. Like, that's the beautiful thing about being a founder and an entrepreneur. Like, I don't think you ever learn as much about who you actually are and what you're made of. Maybe in your marriage, but Those are, like, for me, anyway, those are the two most revelatory roles I've had in terms of, like, getting close to myself and understanding myself.

[Emma Grede]

Definitely. And I also think that if you are, you know, if you're the type of person that's constantly analyzing what you do, why you do it, why these things are happening, how you handle them, it is a little bit like in a relationship or parenting for me. I'm like, being a parent and being a founder and entrepreneur. These are the places that I am learning every day about myself, like it or not. And if I'm not learning, someone's gonna point it out to me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right, Right.

[Emma Grede]

Do you have those people in your life that you've been able to lean on, or do you feel like you're a bit of a. Like a solo person creating your own thing? I just wonder.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I mean, both. Like, I mean, you know, on the way in this morning, I talked to my brother for an hour in the car. Like, I'm very, very close with my family, my friends. I've had my best friend, Mary. We've been best friends since we were four years old. I have people around me who really have my best interest at heart. My husband, who is so brilliant, and he is such a beautiful observer of behavior, and he asks me questions in such a beautiful way, but that hold me accountable or that ask me to hold myself accountable for things. So I think I've never. I'm really lucky because it's never been my instinct to surround myself with. Yes. People. Cause I see that a lot.

[Emma Grede]

You must.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I have never found that interesting.

[Emma Grede]

Like, it's interesting in your own company. Do you think. Have you been able to bring those people into the business that are able to challenge you?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Definitely, because that's hard.

[Emma Grede]

Not everybody has that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That is hard. And I think. But I approach it like, I am an extremely collaborative, I think, leader. And I think sometimes it's actually been to the detriment of the business. And so my work is more around being decisive and feeling like it's okay if someone disagrees with me. This is what my instinct is telling me, and this is what we're going to do. Like, that's my lesson more than I need to hear the hard truth. You know what I mean?

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So that's really why what I say.

[Emma Grede]

Is final, and I'm going in that direction.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's so, so hard for me, Emma.

[Emma Grede]

Is it really? Yes. No.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I want consensus. I want everyone to feel aligned. And I know that is not what.

[Emma Grede]

We think about You I'm gonna have to. That is not how I do it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I need to come shadow you, I think for a week.

[Emma Grede]

Well, it's interesting because I think that that comes from a place of, you know, I feel like I made a lot of good decisions and they're things that maybe went against the grain. And I would imagine for someone like you who has done things that we didn't even know existed or created products that there was just like, you know, no obvious need for, but then suddenly we were all like, okay, we need this thing now, that you would feel conviction and that you would just be like, no, we're going my way. This is not a democracy. This is not a consensus building exercise. It's like, that's the way we're going.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But when you've raised money, right, and you're trying to follow the data, you can make data driven decisions. Like people are coming to you and saying, the data is showing us X. And you feel instinctually why, right? And you're like, okay, I really think we should do this. But like, give me an example.

[Emma Grede]

Like, when has this happened to you? And you're just like, oh, I can't.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Take the vibrator that we made. Right?

[Emma Grede]

I remember it, I own it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, fantastic. So this was like theoretically a risky product to make. Why would we do that? Look at our customer cohorts, they're into beauty and fashion. Like, why are we gonna make something like this? We had had certain products and wellness that were not our strongest products. Because also in retrospect, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a nutritionist. I may think I am, but I may have researched things to that point of being a nutritionist, but I'm not. Why is somebody maybe going to buy an ingestible from us more than from a doctor? So certain categories, like they had their really loyal people, but it was hard to really acquire customers. Also the margins in wellness were terrible. So we could not really promote them properly. You know how that goes. But I felt really strongly that the vibrator was not only a wellness product, it was a movement. And that until we did our vibrator, you know, sexual wellness products were not on shelves from reputable sources. Right. It was like the sex shop on the corner. Some gross, right? And it was like, to me, it was like, this is a real statement around the fact that women deserve to not feel shame about their sexuality. Like, pleasure is good, great. Especially if you're like a hard charging corporate woman.

[Emma Grede]

You have, you're going to need that, right?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So it was like, should we, you know, I don't know. You know, the sort of customer data shows that maybe that's not the right. You know, and we did it and it was super successful. And it was. I think we started a really important conversation. And now, like, there are vibrators and Bloomingdale's, and that merchant says thank you to me for that, you know. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I mean, that's like category defining. That's what we call it. You've done so many different categories in the business. How did you decide what to do, what not to do, and how to, like, ultimately, I guess, like, decide to shut things down? Because everything from, like, the Netflix series, you have clothing, you have wellness, you have beauty, you've had, like, vitamin products.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

There's just been such a slew of stuff. And of course, the editorial platform still exists, which I imagine is a really heavy lift. So what. What does the decision making process look like around those things?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, so I think, like, for the first few years, it was very exploratory. It was kind of like, do we have the latitude to go into this vertical and do it? And, you know, there certain things worked better than other things. And I think kind of over time, you know, even. Even just understanding, like, really looking at the data and understanding, like, our customer really wants to read what we write. They really love our fashion point of view and they really love our beauty point of view. And so until we have so much cash on the balance sheet that we can experiment again, like, let's really focus on those three things and on our food vertical, which has been an incredible success for us.

[Emma Grede]

This is a good food office.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, good.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, I'm telling you, we are that Brentwood chicken salad and those little wraps, we are chowing down on those every day. Every single day. So, so good.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats.

[Emma Grede]

But also, yikes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Emma Grede]

I want to get into the business as it is today because it feels like a really new day in your business. And you know, I think that you, you've kind of said. There was a brilliant article that I read yesterday where you said, you know, like the LTV on the vagina candle customer perhaps didn't shake out as you imagined it would. But it's a really important statement. Right. Because we live and learn in our businesses about what's going to work, what is there for press, what's actually a scalable business.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

What, how has your customer shook out and what does the company look like today?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, so very strong in beauty and fashion. That and the food of course. So we're really like strengthening our strengths. Our beauty business grew 40% last year. Well, it won't grow as much this year, so don't worry. The economy's not working in my favor.

[Emma Grede]

And flat is the new growth. That's what we're saying right now. Just take that one back to your board.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thank you.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, you tell her Ms. Ed.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm going to write that down. And our G label business grew 50% last year.

[Emma Grede]

That's incredible.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So we really just want to focus on those things. And also I'm always refining. It's like we've had this great multifashion business but you know, as we continue to invest it's like those bit that's a hard business, that marketplace. You know, it's so hard.

[Emma Grede]

It's so hard. And you have to make a decision like what are we gonna win out? What are we gonna be best at? Because that is. And especially at your price point, it's a really competitive business and I think you've actually done a very good job. Like I know if I want a cashmere sweater for 5, $600, like you do them beautifully. I know if I want a great stripy T shirt or a great white shirt, like do you know what I mean? I feel like you have a lane and it' very focused. Like you've done a good job at that. But there'll be other places where I imagine you go, you've kind of gone off and you've gone on a tangent. What happens when you make a mistake? Because we all do them.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I mean I own it and I pivot. Like, you know, take the multi brand fashion business for example. Like that's how we started. And, and it's sort of like you look at a business like that and you're like, okay, well we're not losing money on the business. There is EBITDA in the business. But is that really the goop of the future or is there a better way to showcase other brands or the curation which people rely on us for without me buying the inventory, putting it in the warehouse, fulfilling it, dealing with returns and all the things that are going to erode that already pretty narrow margin. So I think I'm constantly trying to think about ways to make the business more profitable and really to lean into what the. Like, I'm trying to read the tea leaves of like what is the customer trying to tell me with her behavior? Like, I know she loves the multi fashion, but is there a way for me to do that in a way that actually strengthens the business? And so like that's something that I'm focusing on a lot right now.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And I feel like reducing complexity because when you get the opportunity to do a lot of things, it can be really enticing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right?

[Emma Grede]

You're like, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. And seemingly the world is your oyster because when you're you, there's just so much opportunity out there. And also, you know, I guess you could just kind of put the Goop brand on so many things and make it work. So you just have to really reduce what you're doing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right. Especially the way that I've always done it, which is, you know, I was joking with this friend of mine the other day of a celebrity who has a great business and like she just stuck her name. You know, I'm the idiot that's like building brick by brick and trying to find a co man somewhere and like source raw materials. Like, what kind of a moron. Like I did it like the hardest longest way, you know. And so do you regret that? No, I don't. No, I don't. No.

[Emma Grede]

Because you have product you can be really proud of.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I do, yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I mean I'm slathered in Goop body butter now with the retinol times three, three days a week. I'm like, this is a good shit.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Some really good shit. Right.

[Emma Grede]

But it has to be.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes. And I take that so seriously. And I, I don't release anything unless it is the best possible product that I can release. Like, I'm relentless. I'm a psycho perfectionist about product.

[Emma Grede]

And if you've surrounded yourself with psycho perfectionists everywhere in the company.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I have, I really have. Like, especially and more and more as we've kind of grown up into a proper company, like you need to hire people, I think, who are holding everybody to the same standard as you're holding things. You know, it's like, if a fabric is not good enough, like, they need to feel it and touch it and send it back. Right. It's like. And that's really what gives me leverage, too, is having people who have a high bar for excellence.

[Emma Grede]

Absolutely. So what happens when you make a misstep? Because I feel like in my career, and again, we don't talk nearly enough about this. I've made so many mistakes. I've gone off on tangents where I lost money. You know, we started shoes at Good American. It feels like, oh, my goodness. Like, why did we ever try to make sizes 4 through 14 in three different widths? Like, if you wrote, like, a bad case for, you know, how to, you know, or a good case for how to lose money, that would have been it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Emma Grede]

And I also feel like that's something that I can write off and say, okay, that was a creatively bad decision. But there are other decisions I've made that have been, I guess, more. I've taken them more personally because it's resulted in having to do a riff, you know, a reduction in force. And that, as a. Again, as a female founder, is something that I took really, really hard. Are there moments for you when you actually just go, I fucked it up? And you do end up taking it very personally. How do you get over those things? And how do you even. I just wonder how you framework that in your business, because you don't get everything right. And I feel like we're setting people up for a fall. If we tell them that we do, we do it right all the time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, my gosh. I've made so many mistakes. And, you know, so many of the mistakes are also, like, not questioning, you know, especially because I felt like I didn't. I didn't finish. I didn't finish college, let alone go to business school. Like, I didn't grow up in a corporate environment. So a lot of my mistakes were around trusting people who are like, just trust me. Not doing my own diligence, you know, to creating the wrong products, to, you know, like, spending a ton of time on money and money on something that doesn't work. And I think we've had to. You just have to be graceful and admit defeat and refocus and. But, you know, you just touched on something. Like, when I've had to do reductions in force, that's the hardest thing for me. And one of my friends works at Goldman Sachs, and just every year, they just cut the bottom 10%.

[Emma Grede]

Cut.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Just cut.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I.

[Emma Grede]

As a matter of excellence. Right. It's purposeful. And it's like we only want the tip of the top, the, you know, the cream.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's right.

[Emma Grede]

Therefore, we're just going to keep getting rid of the bottom. I think they do it. Facebook, they do it. So many of the best in class.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Businesses, they do it everywhere.

[Emma Grede]

Everywhere.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I think as women, we struggle to do that. I also think that when we do that, you know, it becomes a much more interesting story in the news than when men do that. Like, I don't read these stories about Google cutting, you know, doing their, you know what I mean?

[Emma Grede]

Never.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right. The stories don't. And they do it all the time.

[Emma Grede]

The stories don't get written. They don't get written because it's much more a story on the other side of how they've cultivated a, you know, like excellence within the workforce. Right. It's written that way. It isn't about like, oh, my goodness, she over, you know, she over ate the pudding, she over expanded the business and now there needs to, you know, 20 people need to get fired. Have you figured out a way of. You know, I always talk about it as, like, killing my darlings. Like when I, when I decide, like a project is over, a moment is over, we have to make a big change. How have you, how have you kind of figured out how you can do that without feeling the heavy burden, or is it just always heavy?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, now I feel like I've gotten more clinical about it. You know, it's like, I think it's great to try. I think it's great to take risks. And sometimes the product market fit is just not there. And it's not your fault. You know, it's. Or sometimes maybe it could have been there, but you don't have the budget to, you know, like, pour tens of millions of dollars into marketing something. And so you just sort of have to let it go. And I think it's important to admit defeat early. Like, that's something that I've learned too. It's like if it doesn't. If it's not working, let it go.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. It doesn't get better later.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It doesn't get better.

[Emma Grede]

It doesn't get better later. But that decisiveness can be very, very hard to come by. It takes a lot of practice.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It does.

[Emma Grede]

It really takes a lot of practice. But you're there now.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm there now.

[Emma Grede]

And as the CEO, these things are your decision.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

Because you are the CEO of this company.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yep.

[Emma Grede]

Like, that is. That is your job. You're in the office all the time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That is it. Well, now I live in Santa Barbara, so I'm here less, but I'm here a lot.

[Emma Grede]

Did you envisage that you would be the CEO, like, from the, from the outset? Because obviously you had a couple of people, then you had an interim. How long have you played that role?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I've been CEO, I think since 2016, so it's been a while. I really do love it. I think I. I have dreams of, like, going back to being founder, you know, and having somebody else, especially the. The parts that are harder for me.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Like anything that requires math or an Excel spreadsheet. I love the strategy piece, but, like, do I need to spend time on logistics and fulfillment? Like, I'm getting to the point where I'm like, you know, maybe somebody else, you know, should do that.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt. I mean, maybe somebody else should do.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That and maybe the business would be, you know, would find, like, I don't know, new life if. I don't know.

[Emma Grede]

Do you envisage that there'll be a time when you can, like, when you'll be out of the business entirely, or do you just imagine transitioning into founder? Did you build, did you build a company actually that you could step aside from?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think that's why I didn't name it Gwyneth Paltrow. And, you know, I. And I really want this business to be a legacy that's bigger than, you know, one person. And, you know, I think what's hard is that I am a good and a cheap asset. So, you know, so, like, if. If something's not working, they can throw me in a paid ad and, you know, it's like.

[Emma Grede]

The ROI is working right here. Right. For sure.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But ideally, I would like to get to the point where I'm less consumer facing and more like the heart, like the spiritual part of the place and less the face of the place.

[Emma Grede]

But if you could do it all over again, given what you've experienced and what's happened, would you be the CEO of goop?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think I would for a while. Because again, like, I've learned so much about myself and it's so fascinating. Like, I love business. It's endlessly intriguing. The stakes are high. It's highly creative. It's also highly quantitative. Like, I don't know how else I would ever have exercised all these parts of myself.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt. And I feel like you're very good at it. I mean, you have to have been to build a company to this side. What kind of leader are you?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think I am? I mean, I guess you'd have to ask the team, but I think I'm a very collaborative leader. I think I'm very warm. I think I'm very inclusive. And I am learning to be, as I said, not only decisive, but I'm learning to articulate my expectations, which has been hard for me. So that's like. I'm really trying to hold people to KPIs and like, have. Have the harder conversations more frequently.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think that's harder because you're you. Because you come into the room as Gwyneth Paltrow? Like, there's a. There's an expectation that you kind of have to be like a nice lady to people. You know, I don't think anybody has that expectation of me. They expect that I'm gonna be.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I don't know, you know, I've never thought about that. But I. I mean, I think that having been famous for such, you know, I've been famous since I'm like 22 years old. I'm 52, so, you know, much more than half my life. And I think you subconsciously or unconsciously adapt to be a very famous person in the world. And I think it's part of. I take it as part of my role to make people feel comfortable. Cause it can be a destabilizing thing. So maybe there's an aspect to that that I'm not totally aware of, but there probably is.

[Emma Grede]

I mean, I'm sure there is. There must be. But you've built a business that's really, I guess, incredibly sustainable in that it exists in this lane of its own and you believe it's gonna be stable with or without you. I feel like that must feel like such an achievement. No.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes. I think we have a ways to go until I can completely bow out of the sort of consumer facing part. But I know it would work without me.

[Emma Grede]

What would happen if you walked out tomorrow? Like, if you left?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think the team would know what to do and I think they would figure it out.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I feel like there's such clarity in the purpose of the business. I don't feel like it would be that difficult if I was at GOOP tomorrow. I feel like I'd be like, okay, I've got these three verticals and I know I'm not allowed to put any shit in the product.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, do you want to come and run it? I mean, no, no. Who knows?

[Emma Grede]

You never know what's gonna happen in life. We'll see how this goes. It's so Funny.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Take another job. Oh, my God. The lady with the most jobs in America.

[Emma Grede]

No more jobs needed over here. Let's know that when you think about your ambition, you know, because I think that you are a person who is unapologetically ambitious and we've seen that in so many different facets from you. And so I just wonder, like, how you think about ambition at this point in your career when you have been famous for 30 years. Like, what are you excited about now? What are you ambitious about?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I have great ambition around goop and really growing it, you know, now that we're kind of out of that Post Covid, like 4 year old, you know.

[Emma Grede]

That was a moment.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And now let's. Well, let's see what happens with the economy. But I have a lot of ambition around, like getting this business to scale and getting goop kitchen and you know, all over America. And also I think it would be great in the UK and in Paris, like, yeah, it was. Do you want a pret a manger sandwich or every day, do you want your chicken Brentwood chicken sandwich?

[Emma Grede]

I want my Brentwood chicken salad. I want my wraps.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

Soggy sandwich. I'm an LA girl now, so I would say that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No pret a manger for you.

[Emma Grede]

No thank. No, thank you. What do you wish you'd have known when you started out? Like, hindsight's such a fine thing. And I always. I could come up with a list of 50 things I wish I'd have done differently. Do you. Do you feel like that?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I do, I do. I feel like I wasted a lot of time if I look at it through that lens. Like, on the one hand, I do get quite philosophical and I think, like, everything happens exactly as it should same. And, you know, it's okay that the business has grown slowly and steadily. And, you know, I read once somewhere that there's a Chinese proverb that says the slowest growing vegetable has the most nutrients.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, I love that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And so sometimes if I feel like, oh, I've wasted time or it's taken too long, I kind of go back to that idea that, like, we're always on the right timeline. Even if we see friends or competitors do something more quickly, it's not our timeline, and our timeline is what it is. But sometimes I look back and I think, like, oh, my God, why did I do that? Why did I, you know, why did I get off Shopify in 2015? Like, why did I do. Can you explain? Like, why would I do that?

[Emma Grede]

I don't know why you did that. I'm still on Shopify.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay. Why would I get off?

[Emma Grede]

Shopify is the best thing since sliced bread. I mean, honestly, it's just amazing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right. So why did I feel like I.

[Emma Grede]

Don'T have an ad from Shopify? If you want to. If Shopify want to be here, please come, because I am the shop. The advocate for Shopify over here.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay. Well, I got off of it. Someone talked me out of it. They were like, you've too much revenue to be on Shopify.

[Emma Grede]

Get out of town. They're the biggest company. I mean, skims is on Shopify.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, this was when it was like, you know. Right. Exactly. Oh, I need, you know, I need to build yourself. Right.

[Emma Grede]

Good rewards.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, how much money I've wasted, I can't imagine.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, yeah. And I do feel like, again, there's so much advice for female founders. You know, I can't tell you how many people I talk out of building their own warehouse or, you know, their own 3pm I know that's not your business, but I do feel like, especially with businesses where there's a talent at the kind of forefront of the business, there's a moment where you kind of have this period where there can be such incredible acceleration in what you do, and you either jump in that window or you ever so slightly miss it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

And it's. It's frustrating to me because I feel like in every company I've ever been a part of, I can look back, even though I feel like I lean into it as much as possible. I can look back and be like, oh, goodness me. Like, I should have been more. Should have, could have, would have.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And it's hard when it's you as well. Like, because, you know, again, like, the weirdest thing about me, I think, is that I'm actually an introvert. I don't like being in front of people. I don't like being in front of a camera. I don't. I hate public speaking. So. So I think that's also hard for me because my first career was all about that, and my second career is about that to a certain degree as well.

[Emma Grede]

So we all want you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Sometimes I'm like, it's the best thing for the business for me to lean into this, but I don't want to do it.

[Emma Grede]

Do you give advice to younger founders?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Like, do you.

[Emma Grede]

Do you find you're there doing that? Because I know you invest in, like, a lot of companies, and especially in female founders. What is your advice that you like to give most, most frequently, the most.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Important Thing I always say to founders, like, is it going to kill you not to do this?

[Emma Grede]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Because otherwise, don't do it. Like, you have to know with every fiber of your being that you are alive to do this business. Otherwise, don't, don't do it. Don't do it. And then I think there are just like certain table stakes things that I wish somebody had told me at the beginning. I mean, luckily I was obsessed with product like you, so I always made the best possible thing that I could make. But sometimes I think people, like, don't have a high enough standard, you know, especially in a consumer business, like, you know, you see what happens when it's a one and done thing.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, yes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And it's not a business.

[Emma Grede]

It's not a business. That's not a business.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Like, how are you gonna obsess around keeping that customer and keeping them engaged and delighting them? It's like it becomes a retention thing. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

And how did you do that? Like, do you feel like you were just born that way and you were the end customer? Like, how did you get into that point of constantly thinking about your customer? Because it's a difference between like making a product yourself and serving a customer base.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Because I'm her.

[Emma Grede]

You are her.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm her.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I know what I want and my customers deserve that.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I think they do. And I mean, that's a really great way to think about it because I think it's hard to be good or to be excellent at something that you don't feel intrinsically and that you're really far away from being the customer.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm like one of the top five goop customers. Are you really?

[Emma Grede]

That's psycho. I love that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I am.

[Emma Grede]

They don't give me. I need to go back and do a deal for you in your own company. It's happening here.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

My employment agreement is coming up, so.

[Emma Grede]

I'll bring you in negotiation. It's about to happen. So how do you feel about ambition now? Because there was this amazing quote that you had, and I'm gonna read it so I don't bastardize your quote, but you spoke about your relationship with ambition and you said you have a healthy level of ambition, which I think is so clear from you. You know, you are and you want the world. First of all, that you just say that out loud. I want the world. Thank you very much for just being unapologetically ambitious. But then you said that there's another aspect that comes from damage. You say, I Want that so a hole will be filled so that other people will find me worthy and lovable. I think I was dancing between those things. And when I look at goop, your family, the life that you've really curated around you, do you think that you've managed to balance that? Like the dance between this healthy ambition and the wounded ambition? Did you find a balance there? Is it still ongoing in some way?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think that will be ongoing until the end of my life. I think we all have a core wound and I think we hopefully know what it is and we work on it. And it's a lifelong pursuit to make friends with that wound and heal from that wound and not make decisions from that wound. The other interesting thing is when you cross 40, and then definitely when you cross 50, there's this deepening that happens in your relationship with yourself. And this, at least for me anyway, I've had this sort of love for myself start to cultivate, really post 50. So I'm in the past couple of years, and I'm sort of shifting away from this paradigm of I need to be something such that this. It's like, no, I just feel need to be me. And that there's so much power in, like, befriending yourself and being in integrity and saying what you think, even if it's unpopular or even if you're going to disappoint somebody. And it's this, like, incredible blossoming that I feel happening. And so I hope that continues to happen more than like, you know, because sometimes I still have my own personal scoreboard against myself, not against anybody else. And I can be quite punishing, you know, self punishing. Like, I can be very, very hard on myself. And so my hope is that as I continue to sort of soften into this next iteration of who I am and who I was meant to be, that it will be more of the healthy ambition. It's like I still want the world. I still want to see things and learn and I want to taste food and I want to, like, risk stuff, and I want to do things I've never done before, but I don't want to do it because if I don't, it will prove to everyone that I'm a bad person.

[Emma Grede]

Wow.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Does that make sense?

[Emma Grede]

More than you could ever imagine. I feel like there's like, like a. A book, a manifesto, like something in there. Because I feel like 50 for so many women is such an age that you dread, right? And the way that you just described it is like an awakening. And to get to that Place where you have so much love for yourself and you can put yourself first. Like, I love that I. That version of turning 50. I'm here for that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's pretty great. I have to tell you.

[Emma Grede]

It looks great on you. I mean, it really, really does. I do something. I get on the group chat because I have some fierce group chats. Like, what do you want to ask her? So this is what they want to ask you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, I love this.

[Emma Grede]

This is for the girls in London.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I love this.

[Emma Grede]

You're known as someone who still looks like yourself, which is so nuts. Every time I see you, I'm like, you just look like a better version of exactly what you look like 20 years ago. It's really nuts. But you're very. You know, we know about goop. We know about you. You're all about the natural beauty. But is there something that you do that we should all be doing? What is it? Like, really? What is it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I mean, so I think it sounds dumb, but the women who look the best are the women who really take care of what they eat. It's like exercise, it's diet. I know. It's true, though.

[Emma Grede]

I knew you were gonna say that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's not really true.

[Emma Grede]

You were gonna go, so there's this guy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, but there is. There is also stuff. I mean, of course there's a lot of guys. But I do think that in terms of looking good, vitality, you've got to hydrate, you've got to sleep, you've got to eat nutrient dense foods, you got to limit alcohol. You got to. I know. You can't smoke.

[Emma Grede]

You can't smoke. No, no, no. We're done with that. Damn it. Those days are over.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Those were the days.

[Emma Grede]

Paris with a cigarette. So chic. But no, not so much. Not so much with the skin I wanted to ask you about because you're very, very close to your kids. And I feel. I don't feel like there's a time that I've ever spoken to you where either they're not around or they haven't. They don't come into the conversation. But you and your daughter Apple have a very, very close relationship. And I wonder if they've ever challenged you or if she's ever challenged you on something that you've said or done in public.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, in public. I mean. Cause you're like.

[Emma Grede]

It happens in private all the time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

She'll like, Yeah, I mean, she'll like, take the piss. Like, she'll. One time, I remember I had my to do book open I still was writing down stuff with paper and a pen and she must have been, I don't know, 13 or whatever, and she was like, make more vagina candles. She will make fun of me all the time. Makes fun of me on social media.

[Emma Grede]

She does.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, my God. Yeah, totally.

[Emma Grede]

But I bet she's very, very proud of you, though.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think she is. I think she, you know, I think she recognizes how hard I work and she likes that. I actually am a bit of a trailblazer, you know. I think she thinks it's cool.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt. Absolutely no doubt. Which part of goop still feels like you and what feels like. It's just not so much.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It all feels like me.

[Emma Grede]

Does it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, that's so lucky.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It really does.

[Emma Grede]

I mean, that's an achievement. Sixteen years in, that that business still feels like you and I think it does.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, it really does. Like, I still. I still care so much. I care about every article and, you know, every marketing campaign and every product. Like, I care so much.

[Emma Grede]

Nuts.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I know you do, too.

[Emma Grede]

I really do. I mean, I'm a borderline obsessive person. I mean, that's how I feel. I'm really proud of it. What's one thing that people assume about you that's completely wrong, but maybe you secretly kind of love it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think people, from afar, I think people can think that I'm cold or haughty or something. Like, I get, like, people have said that, like, oh, we thought you were going to be arrogant. We thought you were going to be. And I'm actually, like, very warm and a huge dork. Like goofy.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, like I'm very goofy and warm.

[Emma Grede]

You're very warm. Yeah. The first time I ever met you. Actually, it was the second time. Second time I ever met you. We did a workout the first time. Second time. I'd started another one of my ill fated.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Just categories.

[Emma Grede]

An active line with Good American that is no more. But I bought a piece of the active.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I still have that jumpsuit, that jump.

[Emma Grede]

You remember you took off your workout clothes in your kitchen. You put on the jumpsuit. I thought, can I quickly take a picture? No, don't do that. That's weird. You put it on and you did the whole workout in it and you were like, this is amazing. And you gave me all this feedback and I was like, this is so cool.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Still have it.

[Emma Grede]

And you sent me a picture of yourself in it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Still have it.

[Emma Grede]

I can't believe that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I know. I love that.

[Emma Grede]

James, maybe it wasn't so Bad, everybody. All right, we're going on to the rapid fire.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay.

[Emma Grede]

The first thing that you do when.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You wake up, Please cuddle my husband.

[Emma Grede]

Ah, that's a good one.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

What a good one.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's number one.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And it's the number one thing that you should do. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Cuddle my husband. Oh, that's perfect.

[Emma Grede]

So cute.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And put in my earplugs and my mouth guard and my mouth tape and all the sexy stuff.

[Emma Grede]

So sexy. I love to look at you. He's like, that's not what I signed up for. But anyway, not at all. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's such a good question. I'll narrow it down to one thing. I guess the number one thing and what feels like the most urgent to me is profitability. You know, like, it's hard. We're supposed to get. Like we have a whole plan. We're supposed to get. But I want to. I want to accelerate.

[Emma Grede]

You want to accelerate?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I would like to. Yes. I would like to accelerate.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I understand that. I mean, it's tough. At the time when you started your business, profitability wasn't zero.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No one cared.

[Emma Grede]

No one cared. They were like, grow, grow, grow. Acquire a customer. It doesn't matter. And then all of a sudden, you were like, oh, well, I'm supposed to put money on the bottom line.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

180. Yeah, 180.

[Emma Grede]

It really was. And I think that if I'm ever speaking to founders, I was very lucky because I had all of these. They hate it when I call them the old guys, but they are old. Like, I had these older guys that sat on my board that were like, don't listen to the youngins. Those D2C fools over there. They don't get it. And so John Howard and Andrew Rosen and actually my husband Jens were like, like, ebitda, Emma. Learn the words, understand it. Put money on the bottom line. Because when shit hits the fan, and it will, and it did, that's what's gonna save you. And I'm so glad I listened. And I just think. I don't know. I thank God every day that that was the point of view. Cause it's really hard to retrofit a business into profitability.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So then you have, like all these things that were built in order to. For that first model of direct to consumer, where profitability didn't matter and it was all top line and exactly, like, going back and undoing a lot of that Stuff like team size, office size, whatever.

[Emma Grede]

All the things.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

All the things.

[Emma Grede]

All the things. Okay. I'm going to aspire to profitability.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Ok, thank you very much.

[Emma Grede]

What is something that you are currently aspiring to in your personal life?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It is such an interesting question because I feel like I am coming into an era where I have really figured out so much balance and where I don't feel guilty about the things that I do to be restorative and regenerative, but I think what I aspire to is to be out of the grips of this crazy hormonal phase that I'm in.

[Emma Grede]

Are you perimenopausal?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

I learned that term from you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I want perimenopause to end. That's what I aspire to.

[Emma Grede]

It's bullshit, right? Bullshit. Perimenopause and then menopause. So, like, you're just gonna go, well.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'll tell you how that goes when I get there.

[Emma Grede]

I mean, again, another conversation you started. I did not know the term. I did not know the doctor. I did not know what was happening. And you were like, maybe.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I was like, no. Yep.

[Emma Grede]

Thank you for that. What's a book that's changed your life?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, there's so many. I always go back to Mary Oliver's poems. Like, she's, like, going to church for me, and so I have different copies of her different books all over. And whenever I need to sort of reconnect with that feeling of purpose and that the world is so much bigger than me or any failure that I have or any disappointment or any happiness, I read Mary Oliver.

[Emma Grede]

I love that. Okay. That's a really fantastic answer. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't now?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I feel like I still value all the things that I started out valuing. I mean.

[Emma Grede]

That is very interesting.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. In itself, I still have all those feelings of, like, you know.

[Emma Grede]

No, that is a perfect answer. Then I asked you the other way around. Is there something that you value now that you actually didn't back then?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes. Having the hard conversations. It's like almost every mistake that I've ever made comes from me not saying what needed to be said in the moment because I didn't want to rock the boat or hurt someone's feelings. Every single mistake, like when I'm on my deathbed, when I look back at my life, those will have been the mistakes that I made. Like, I didn't have the hard conversation when I needed it professionally, personally.

[Emma Grede]

Wow. What an incredible insight. To end this on. I feel like there's so much learning in that. Again, because it's so hard. It's so hard for so many people to just have that level of honesty. And also not even just with other people, but with yourself often. Right. You're like not truthful and honest and admitting things to yourself. And so it becomes really, really difficult.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's right.

[Emma Grede]

To make the right decisions and to have the right conversations.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's true. Wow. So that's an area that I don't compromise anymore.

[Emma Grede]

Good for you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

How incredible. I love having you on. Thank you so much for the conversation.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thank you for having me.

[Emma Grede]

Thank you, my dear. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Leah Rees Dennis and Jennifer and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox and Kurt Courtney. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, My teams at Jonesworks and wne Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meikol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D e. That's Aspire A S P I R E with me, Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website emmagreed Me.