← Aspire with Emma Grede
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- [00:00]
Emma Grede
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- [01:00]
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- [01:31]
Melody Hobson
You must, and I mean this with serious intensity. You have to have a sense of urgency. You have to want to be great.
- [01:39]
Emma Grede
How do you know that? Like, you're like, I'm gonna stay in Ariel and this is gonna be my career. Like, if I'd have asked you, I don't know, 30 years ago, would you stay in this one place? I know I would, you would've had that answer.
- [01:49]
Melody Hobson
I knew I would. Vision means conquering fear. Because once you decide to go out on that limb and dangle, there's like, nothing to help you. You're like, dripping by your hands, by your fingernails.
- [02:07]
Emma Grede
I'm so excited about today's episode of the Aspire podcast because today I'm talking to my ultimate aspiration. What? Whenever I'm asked who I look up to in business, I only have one answer, and it's Melody Hobson. Melody is the co CEO of Ariel Investments, a firm which manages over $14 billion in assets. She was chairwoman at Starbucks and has held board seats at JP Morgan, Estee Lauder, and even negotiated the acquisition of Dreamworks Animation. She is someone whose journey is marked by incredible success. But she's Also navigated her path with grace and courage and just an unshakable sense of purpose. If you ever wondered what it takes to rise through the ranks, not just to the top, but to redefine what the top can be, then Melody is that blueprint. We'll get into her thoughts on how to get promoted, finding the power in negotiation, and how sometimes being underestimated can be your superpower. We'll talk about money and how she's using her voice and influence to build real ownership, especially for women and people of color. Melody is a true one of one, and I am so excited to share this episode. Welcome to the show, Melody Hobson. Melody, thank you so much for being here today. When I think about someone in business who I aspire to, you are number one. Number one. Number one again.
- [03:27]
Melody Hobson
No, come on.
- [03:27]
Emma Grede
No, not come on.
- [03:29]
John Rogers
Seriously?
- [03:29]
Emma Grede
Yes, seriously. You know this.
- [03:31]
Melody Hobson
You say that to everyone.
- [03:33]
Emma Grede
Every time I start. That's my intro. No, I have to tell you, when I decided to do this show, which ultimately the idea is that I get to share the people that I aspire to the most, it was number one, You. And I'm so happy that you're here. We've got a lot of stuff that we're going to talk about today, but before we start, I really want to understand a little bit more about your childhood and where you come from. And I know you grew up on the south side of Chicago. I know that you're one of six and you were raised by a single mother, but I'd really like to understand a little bit more about how you were raised and how and where you came from. Really, you know, what does that mean in terms of who you are today and how you kind of move through the world?
- [04:14]
Melody Hobson
Me knowing your story, I think you'll understand very well. I grew up in Chicago, youngest of six. My siblings are much older than me, so a couple of decades.
- [04:22]
Emma Grede
Oh, wow.
- [04:23]
Melody Hobson
So, interestingly, I am technically an only child because they say if you have more than five years between yourself and your next sibling, and my next sibling is nine years older than me. My mom was a single mom. She worked extremely hard, but we had a hard existence, and not harder than anyone else's, but our own form of challenges, where despite the effort, we would get evicted, our phone would get disconnected, our lights would be turned off. My mom used to borrow gas from the gas station to get me to school. And all of those things created trauma. I feel like my purpose came from that trauma. And I think my fire. And I said this recently in an interview was lit by scarcity. There was scarcity. And it made me very, very, very focused and very driven. I mean, very. I could sit for hours and work without even looking up.
- [05:17]
Emma Grede
That's true.
- [05:18]
Melody Hobson
The focus that I have is extreme.
- [05:21]
Emma Grede
Well, I know that about you. And I think that for so many people, when you come from a place where scarcity is, like, it's there, it never leaves. Like, it's always around the corner. Do you feel like that?
- [05:31]
Melody Hobson
Absolutely. No. I used to have those recurring nightmare dreams. You know, people talk about their dream was they didn't graduate from college or something like that. I still, to this day, I wake up in the morning and I look up and I speak words of gratitude or say words of gratitude to myself about the fact that I have a house or an apartment or wherever I am.
- [05:50]
Emma Grede
I cannot tell you how much that resonates with me. I mean, I've told you this before. I love that story of Chris Rock, who talks about keeping a bag packed in his own house. And I feel a little bit like that I'm ready for the day. Someone's like, this is not your life, girl. You're like, you know, I'm gonna march you out. And so I kind of feel like in my head, I kind of. I will keep a bag packed for the rest of my life.
- [06:08]
Melody Hobson
And it's interesting. Mine is not the bag packed. Mine is like the account to make you have stacked some back, you know.
- [06:17]
John Rogers
Some backup money in case anything goes wrong.
- [06:20]
Melody Hobson
But, yeah, so it's not a bag for me, but it's the same concept.
- [06:23]
Emma Grede
It's the same concept.
- [06:25]
Melody Hobson
Being prepared and, you know, having that. Not even just emergency mentality, but that mentality that anything can happen, which has proven to be true over and over again in life.
- [06:34]
Emma Grede
Yeah, in so many great ways. But did you always know that you wanted a career in business? I understand that you were watching your siblings, but who was around you and who gave you this idea that you could have this type of career that you're having?
- [06:48]
Melody Hobson
No one. No one in my immediate family. I'm the only one who graduated from college. So they aren't like me. We're very, very different. But as I said, I have nothing but respect and admiration and love for the lens through which they allowed me to form a life for myself or an idea of a life for myself. In terms of what I was looking at nothing in person, but I was reading. And so I always tell people I was mentored by people I never met because I was reading about them. And so the reading is what brought me to have the ideas that I have, because I didn't have that real life experience. I didn't grow up with any relationships. I didn't grow up with any entrees. I found all those things myself. And then I was a really good student. And what I mean by that is technically a good student at school, but I was a good study. So if I had the opportunity to observe something, I would study it really fast. So I would come here, Furniture, how you looked, all sorts of things, and then take pieces of it and say, oh, that makes sense. Or I want to do that, or look at how this was put together. And so that created an opportunity for me. But I really spent a lot of my childhood in the library. I used to go to the library on Saturdays. And you would just hang out at.
- [08:02]
Emma Grede
The library and reading. What, like, what were you talking with?
- [08:06]
Melody Hobson
Well, I was really young. I used to read these biographies. There were these little red. And they were in my school library at my public school, which is called the Ogden School. And they had a book on every person you could possibly imagine. And my goal was to read all of them. And so I read books on, like.
- [08:22]
Emma Grede
The world were you at this point?
- [08:23]
Melody Hobson
I mean, I'm like, 9, 10, 11, 12.
- [08:27]
Emma Grede
And at 9, you have a goal. So at 9, you're like, I'm gonna read every book.
- [08:30]
Melody Hobson
Well, this was a big deal because I told people this, and, you know, sometimes they're a little surprised. I couldn't read until I was in second grade. I really struggled reading, which I can't explain it. No. And I have no issues. I mean, once it clicked, I had a math teacher in high school. He called me the second day girl. He was like, you get everything on the second day.
- [08:51]
John Rogers
And then once you have it, it's solid. He used to call me, literally in class. He's like, the second day girl. He's like, the second day. I don't know that that's still true, but there were some years where I used to be.
- [09:00]
Emma Grede
I can almost certainly say you've shed the second day girl thing. So you then first in the family to graduate from college. You graduate from Princeton.
- [09:08]
Melody Hobson
Yes.
- [09:09]
Emma Grede
And you then go straight to Aerial Investments. Yes. Which is where you are now. You were an intern, and that is where you've spent your entire career.
- [09:19]
Melody Hobson
I have had one job since I graduated from college in 1991, and supposedly, in my graduating class of 1,100 people, I'm the only person who has had the same phone number at work. The entire time. Literally.
- [09:36]
Emma Grede
Well, because nobody does that these days. I feel like we're almost trained in so much of a way. And I honestly think this about my own stuff because people come and they come for two to three years. It's so unusual that anyone stays even for five or six. So I can imagine for you that even during that tenure you have done a lot of different things. You don't start as the intern and end up where you are now.
- [10:01]
Melody Hobson
Remember, I'm rooted in a sense of a lack of security.
- [10:09]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [10:10]
Melody Hobson
And moving constantly as a child. So what do you. When you move a lot as a child, what don't you do as an adult?
- [10:17]
Emma Grede
You don't want to move. You want stability.
- [10:19]
Melody Hobson
So I never wanted to move. And so I didn't want to move at home and I didn't want to move. I lived in my first apartment that was 850 square feet for 14 years.
- [10:28]
Emma Grede
You didn't.
- [10:29]
John Rogers
I was president of Ariel. I had enough money to buy a really, really nice apartment. And I lived in this 850 square foot apartment.
- [10:37]
Melody Hobson
It had one bathroom.
- [10:39]
John Rogers
I had my apartment remodeled. I had to move to the Peninsula to get my apartment remodeled.
- [10:44]
Emma Grede
And you moved back to the 850 square feet apart. And they get out of it.
- [10:48]
John Rogers
My bathroom was so small that only one construction worker could work it in it at a time.
- [10:53]
Emma Grede
Where does that come from, though? Because I was like wanted to where you were at.
- [10:57]
Melody Hobson
And I was also like, it's paid for. I'm not living above my means. It's perfectly fine. It was pretty. It was tiny. It had 11, 14 foot ceilings, but tiny.
- [11:07]
John Rogers
It was the tiniest apartment.
- [11:08]
Emma Grede
But it was your own and you owned it.
- [11:10]
Melody Hobson
I had shoes and shoes.
- [11:11]
Emma Grede
When did you buy that apartment?
- [11:12]
Melody Hobson
When I was in 1994. So I lived there for this long period of time because I really like this idea of just being very, very, very stable. So the same was true at Ariel. It was very, very stable. But I was constantly challenged with new things and they always got harder to this day.
- [11:35]
Emma Grede
And I do think there's so much to be said for someone like you. You've done so many things in your career, but how have you been able to architect that career over the last 30 years? What did that look like for you?
- [11:45]
Melody Hobson
So one thing that I felt very strongly about, and I told this to a lot of young people, first of all, and it's very important, my career is anchored in an expertise. I am anchored in finance. And that is very, very important. When I looked at the greats no matter who they were, from Warren Buffett to Steve Jobs to you name the person. Jamie Dimon. You could look at Walt Disney. You could look at just so many greats. They did one thing extremely well, and they went deep. And I tell people an expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less. So that's not my quote. It's a quote that I read so you know more and more about less and less. And so think about it. I said, there's a difference between a general practitioner, where you just go to the doctor and they're checking you out, and brain surgery. So I wanted to be the brain surgeon of my field.
- [12:43]
Emma Grede
How did you choose finance?
- [12:45]
Melody Hobson
Because money. I was desperate to understand money as a child. So that's what I mean by my trauma became my purpose. I really wanted to. I wanted to understand very early on how money worked so that I would not repeat the cycles that I was in. And so really, it all made a lot of sense to me once I got there. And this is really important. I said, I want to be known for something that I do so well that it distinguishes me. So in finance, one of the things that I do really, really well is I have a great ability to communicate ideas. And I would read the people who could do it very well. And there was a guy who wrote for Barron's magazine, which is a weekly financial magazine, named Floyd Norris. He wrote the beginning article every week. He was genius, genius writer. And then I would read Warren Buffett's annual letters, genius, genius, genius. Where they would simplify such hard concepts. Warren Buffett would talk. Everyone thinks he's looking for a needle in a haystack. He's like, I own Coca Cola. I just look for haystacks. So just that idea of, like, look for a haystack, not a needle. And so I would read what they would write, and I'd say, well, one, I want to be able to write extremely well about money, and I want to be able to communicate this concept to anyone who could be a bus driver, a cfo, a schoolteacher. And to do that actually is harder. Then if you are a scientist and you're only speaking to PhDs, you have a common language, you have a lot of jargon. If you're trying to break down that science to everyday people, you have to figure out how to put it in terms that they can understand. And I want it to be able to do it all. And it's not even a question of high, low. It's a question of being clear, concise, and simple about things that can be very hard to explain.
- [14:36]
Emma Grede
And how have you gotten so good at that? Like, it. Because it's such a difficult thing. And I do. You know, I almost hate what I'm about to say, but I feel like finance is still one of those things. And it doesn't matter. If you meet a female founder, female CEO, she will somehow extrapolate herself very, very often and more often than not from the finance piece. And I find myself, and have done earlier in my career, saying, you know, the first person I get around me is like, the cfo, because that's where I'm weak. And I think the mom. I stopped saying that. And I took responsibility for my own learning, for my own understanding, for my dyslexia and not allowing that to be an excuse, I became infinitely more powerful in my own businesses, but also in my own life. So, like, I just need to understand. Like, that is so. It's such an incredible thing for me that you are so powerful in finance.
- [15:29]
Melody Hobson
So one of the things that I love so much that I will tell you, for years and years, I started off working on television. I worked on Good Morning America for a decade, and then I worked on CBS as an expert.
- [15:40]
Emma Grede
Right, so you always had your job at Aerial. And then you would be.
- [15:44]
Melody Hobson
I have 17 jobs.
- [15:45]
Emma Grede
Right? Yes, but you'll be in the entertainment sphere as Melody Hobson, the expert.
- [15:49]
Melody Hobson
And thinking about what happened in the world of money. And the great thing about that is you get so few minutes, and you must simplify.
- [15:58]
Emma Grede
Right.
- [15:58]
Melody Hobson
And so what I would do on my way to the studio, and it would be, you know, four in the morning, five in the morning, I'd sit in the front seat of the black Town Car and speak to the driver, and I would run my script by the driver. And I would say to him or her, every single time I say something, you don't understand, stop me. And so I used them as my focus group. Just the car ride. And I would go over and over and over again. And so that was one way that I would hear. And Diane Sawyer, in the beginning, she would call me in the middle of the night. She's like, I've read your script. I don't understand. It would be like 2 in the morning. And she was like, melody, you have to explain it. I don't understand. And she was the one who always kept pushing me to simplify and explain things in a better way. And then I started to realize the power of that. Because once you could break it down even that, you know, it's I think people think someone with jargon is smarter. And I actually feel the opposite. Most of the time when people give me acronyms, I say, what does that stand for?
- [17:00]
Emma Grede
All the time.
- [17:00]
Melody Hobson
Do you know how many people can't tell you what the acronym means all the time?
- [17:03]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [17:04]
Melody Hobson
Which I think is hilarious. So it says a lot. It's one of the reasons I don't like acronyms at all.
- [17:10]
Emma Grede
I actually think it's a great lesson because sometimes the fear. I remember when I started in the apparel business, it's all acronyms. And I would stop people constantly and say, what is the aov? What is the upt? What is the ltv? And everyone would be like, aren't you embarrassed you're supposed to be the CEO? And I was like, no, I don't know what I don't know. And again, it can become so, like, fearful for people just to ask the question.
- [17:34]
Melody Hobson
That's so interesting because I call it confident Humility.
- [17:37]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [17:37]
Melody Hobson
I can be confident and have a lot of humility. And I tell people all the time, if I don't know what you are talking about, I'm going to ask 100%.
- [17:45]
Emma Grede
And it's a superpower to simplify and for you to be able to distill complex ideas into really, really simple, like, you know, simple things that anyone can understand is a superpower.
- [17:55]
Melody Hobson
This is my example that I give to people. You have a small child. My daughter's 11. I know you have several children around her same age. Something's wrong with your child. You are with a doctor. A doctor speaks to you only and doctors speak. If it were a child, you'd say, break that down and explain it to me in a way that I can understand. Because you are not walking out of that office with something wrong with your child without understanding. I said, why do we allow people to do that with us with money? It's significant. What you need to know. It could not only affect your life, but the life of your heirs. So you need to ask that follow up question. I don't know what you're talking about. Just as if someone said, you know, your daughter broke her femur in three places. If you didn't know what femur was, you'd say, what is that? And they'd say, broken leg. Right. So it's the same sort of thing. But I think the simplification of the concepts is the power. And that's what I started to see. I was like, wait a minute, if I can simplify this, I actually have more people who are Leaning in because sometimes they actually want to borrow the ideas.
- [19:01]
Emma Grede
Oh yeah.
- [19:02]
Melody Hobson
And use these ideas in their own way. And then also what it allowed me to do, it forced me to break these things down for myself. I was always kind of saying like, how could I think about this differently? What does this mean? How do I understand it? And if I'm in a boardroom, if I'm in anywhere, I'm just not. I always, people know that about me. I will ask if I don't know. I think questions are the most powerful things you can do in life.
- [19:28]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [19:29]
Melody Hobson
I prefer questions to statements every single time.
- [19:33]
Emma Grede
And I think that all the time. Because in any situation that you're in, being able to find that unlock to something is like how many great questions can you ask? It's not about what you already know because I want to figure out what I don't know in any given situation. And so asking the right questions is what allows you to do that every time.
- [19:49]
Melody Hobson
And what amazes me, Emma, smart people who are not curious, oh, it's the worst.
- [19:55]
Emma Grede
It's a terrible trait. Just like not being curious on its own.
- [19:59]
Melody Hobson
How about the fact you sit down with someone and by the end of dinner they haven't asked you one thing.
- [20:04]
Emma Grede
It's unforgivable.
- [20:05]
Melody Hobson
I literally, I am like, well, they're, you know, they may be successful for now.
- [20:11]
Emma Grede
Yeah, but how long does it last?
- [20:12]
Melody Hobson
Correct.
- [20:13]
Emma Grede
No curiosity. And honestly, when I think about this type of show and the reason that I wanted to do this, it's because my life has been so enhanced by being able to sit with people that I find really interesting and really inspiring and information. You know, Warren Buffett has this quote that I love which is the more you learn, the more you earn.
- [20:36]
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- [21:07]
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- [21:42]
Emma Grede
It feels to me that you are always in learning mode. You can't have a career like the one that you've had without consistently learning. And so when you learn that, you are this super communicator and you have a way of distilling and simplifying these very complex ideas, how do you know that, like, you're like, I'm gonna stay in Ariel and this is gonna be my career. Like, if I'd have asked you, I don't know, 30 years ago, would you stay in this one place, would you have had that answer?
- [22:10]
Melody Hobson
I know I would. I remember being very young. I remember walking into our office one day and I remember looking at the door and I said, how many times am I going to walk through this door in my life? I knew, I knew. Part of what I knew was that I was working with great people. Someone gave me advice once. They said, you know, people make really important business decisions for the wrong reasons. And they encouraged me never to make important decision business decisions based on never.
- [22:37]
Emma Grede
And I think so many people do that.
- [22:39]
Melody Hobson
And I have seen it that you know the person who leaves the job for the extra ten grand, and you're like, but this is the better opportunity, this is the better person to mentor you. This is the way that you're going to actually be exposed to things that you won't see in this other place. But it's the trade offs that are made that where they ultimately nickel and dime themselves. I remember being at Ariel. I remember someone saying to me, they tried to recruit me to another job. I never talked to headhunters or anything like that. This person asked me to come over and they're like, but it's so much bigger than Ariel. And I said, that's what you value. And I said, I'm valuing the experience. And this experience is giving me a lot of opportunity to grow and learn in ways big and small that are important to me.
- [23:21]
Emma Grede
And did you ever worry, you know, because again, having so many people that like, work around me in these companies, did you ever feel overwhelmed or like there were things that you didn't want to take on or for you? Was it always like, I'm taking that, I'm taking that?
- [23:36]
Melody Hobson
Okay, so first of all, we all feel overwhelmed sometimes. And it's, you know, a question of how do you re anchor yourself to get through it and I somehow I can push through and will myself to do unbelievable things. I cannot describe it to you. I can work outwork any person.
- [23:53]
Emma Grede
Give me an example. Like when you say that you can push yourself to do unbelievable things, what does that look like? Because I feel like sometimes you could look at somebody like you and think, you know, well, of course she's like super smart. But it's not just about what you learned and what you've taught yourself. There is something to just sheer work ethic that counts for something, right?
- [24:15]
Melody Hobson
First of all, it's waking up super early, not making any excuses about all the things I have to get done. It's a lot of travel, a lot of like landing in the middle of the night, waking up super early in the morning.
- [24:29]
Emma Grede
I love to hear that because I think that at the point you are in your career you still have to push through things. I still have to like. Yeah, you still do that. We had that level of work.
- [24:39]
Melody Hobson
We had a big thing a couple weeks ago where I had to get something out very last minute. We started off in Florida, we flew to Texas and then we were flying to San Francisco. This issue came up. We started on Friday at 3:30 in the afternoon. We needed what we needed to get done, which was really hard. By Monday morning I told my chief of staff Serena and I was like, we are gonna be sitting at the kitchen table for the next two days. So we went all the entire flight from Texas to San Francisco. We work late into night in San Francisco. We woke up early, very early. I still went to the gym somehow and then we. But not always. I mean this was a bad run. So then we got up, we worked the entire day into the night sitting in the same seat the entire Saturday, the entire Sunday. But we had to fly to Chicago. We worked in the entire time flying to Chicago. We finished. When we landed. When we hit the ground in Chicago and turned it over to the next person, it was incredibly hard. But I said we have no choice. And everyone who was behind me waiting for the work, I said when I hand this off to you, you're going to go into this non sleep mode that I was just in.
- [25:55]
Emma Grede
And you had to deliver on it too.
- [25:57]
Melody Hobson
But you've got hours.
- [25:59]
Emma Grede
Wow.
- [25:59]
Melody Hobson
You know, you've got to turn this around and we have no choice.
- [26:02]
Emma Grede
So talking of hard things, because I think there will be so many people that are sitting there in a corporate career and I do think to some degree there is a blueprint for getting promoted, for moving through a job in the way you, you know, in the way that you have. So what do you tell people? I mean, because you're on an 11, do you need everybody else around you to be on an 11? And what is it that people need to do in order to be successful and to be promoted where they're at?
- [26:31]
Melody Hobson
Okay, this is going to sound strange and I'm going to make it hopefully not sound not great, but it's how I think about it. My mom had six kids. She mothered us all differently. That's what I mean. That's just a fact.
- [26:48]
Emma Grede
No siblings have the same parents?
- [26:49]
Melody Hobson
No, that is a fact. No, it's a fact. In my group of people who work directly with me, I understand what they can do and how they can do it. John Rogers always used to tell me that the world Championship Chicago Bulls that won seven championships. He said, Dennis Rodman rebounds. Steve Kerr shoots threes. Michael is the greatest player of all time. You know, he would go through each player and he said, but each one is really important. Michael can't play without them. They can't win. So Dennis may be out at night, but everyone makes sure Dennis is on the court so that he can rebound for them. And he's like, so he doesn't have the same rules as everyone else. And so, Melody, you figure it out that you get the best out of each person, but everyone's not gonna run the place.
- [27:38]
Emma Grede
But what happens if your aspiration is to operate at the highest level? Like, what are the non negotiables, do you think, for people that want that type of career, what do they need to do?
- [27:49]
Melody Hobson
You must, and I mean this with serious intensity. I think you have to care a lot and have a sense of urgency. You have to have a sense of urgency. You have to want to be great. You know, I love that book by Jim Collins, good to great. And the first line of the book, good is the enemy of great. Good is the enemy of great. Plenty of people are happy with good. They say the worst student is the B plus student. Because the B plus student was like, it's fine, it's okay. They're like, the C student aspires for something better. And the A student is just the A student. But the B plus student is, they live in that no man's land of it's fine. And so it's almost like the worst situation that you can be in. So if good is the enemy of great, I want the person who wants to be great. But understanding that differential between good and great is really hard.
- [28:44]
Emma Grede
Do you think you can train people into that or do you think it has to come from somewhere within themselves?
- [28:49]
Melody Hobson
It has to be there. Yeah, some people just, you know, they come out of the wound with it. Some people don't. But that doesn't make them. They can still be very valuable. They're just going to be a certain kind of player. And that's what John said. He's like, there are gonna be other people. They're just not gonna run the place.
- [29:04]
Emma Grede
So you think people have to just work really hard, want to be great, and they need to have a sense of urgency.
- [29:09]
Melody Hobson
I think they have to want to be great. Let's start with that. And you know, some people have to work harder than others. So I remember going to school with geniuses at Princeton. They didn't have to work as hard as I did. They, you know, sort of like skimmed the page and got it. And I'm like writing notes and checking.
- [29:24]
John Rogers
You know, flashcards and doing the whole thing.
- [29:27]
Melody Hobson
But, you know, they.
- [29:28]
John Rogers
It came easier to them.
- [29:29]
Melody Hobson
Some things come easier to me. So I think it's just a function of you understanding yourself.
- [29:36]
Emma Grede
And what's so interesting to me, you obviously work in this extremely male dominated space, Right. And I always think the opposite of you, the total opposite of you. You have women, thank goodness for me. But I always think about this idea of, you know, like, you can't be what you don't see. And did you have women that were around you or mentors in your career? It's just so interesting. Yes, a lot you did?
- [30:00]
Melody Hobson
Yes, a lot. I mean, I talked about Diane Sawyer. Yes, Diane Sawyer was so great to me. She saw me on the COVID of Working Woman magazine in an article called 30 under 30. I got the COVID with another woman. And I will remember it like it was yesterday. Cause I remember how much I didn't.
- [30:16]
John Rogers
Like the suit they made me wear.
- [30:18]
Melody Hobson
Which was just so bad.
- [30:21]
John Rogers
But anyway, I remember it wasn't prouder.
- [30:22]
Emma Grede
On Prouder on Mew Me, on Gucci, on Prada. It was like, you know, because we know you in your fashion, which is another thing that I love that you bring to this. Cause I'm like, well, she ain't sacrificing the outfits, that's for sure.
- [30:33]
Melody Hobson
No, it was a casual corner.
- [30:34]
Emma Grede
Oh, no. Oh no. Good Lord, for sure. Touching your pals.
- [30:38]
John Rogers
Oh, for sure. So anyway, she saw me on the.
- [30:42]
Melody Hobson
COVID She had her sister call me. I remember I was going to an event in Chicago. My cell phone rings and this woman says, my name is Linda Frankel. And I'm Diane Sawyer's sister, and she saw you in this magazine, and she wants to meet with you. And I'm like, who is this? Really? That's what I was saying. Cause I didn't believe it. And ultimately, she's like, no. My name is Linda Frankel, and I'm Diane Sawyer's sister. Do you think you meet with her in New York? So I go to meet with Diana in New York, and she says, you know, I thought this story was pretty amazing, and I've never seen anyone like you on television talk about money. And I think you could be great.
- [31:12]
Emma Grede
Wow.
- [31:13]
Melody Hobson
And so she asked me, she says, you know, I think you should be on television talking about money. I said, well, I have a job in Chicago. And she's like, if I make it work on my end, will you make it work on your end? And I said, you mean do both? She said, do both. We do this one show. We have these young people come in. And I was young myself, but. But they were young. They were pitching business plans or something like that. And I remember there was a woman, and she wasn't that buttoned up, and I gave her sort of, like, very direct feedback on the air. And Diane pulled me aside, and she said, and this was so powerful. She said, melody. She said, you know, when you watch Oprah Winfrey now, Oprah's like, right? So I said, yeah. And she's like, you know what happens when she comes out on her show and she's in the middle of the aisle? Everyone wants to hug her. Everyone. She said they want to hug her. And she said, you want to be someone that someone wants to hug. That's not what I saw.
- [32:12]
Emma Grede
Whoa. Feedback. How'd you take that?
- [32:15]
Melody Hobson
I was like, wow. She's like, you don't know.
- [32:19]
Emma Grede
Did you recognize what she was saying or did it. It felt the truth.
- [32:23]
Melody Hobson
Yeah. She's like, that's not what I saw. Yeah. She's like, you could be honest with someone, but you don't have to hurt their feelings.
- [32:28]
Emma Grede
Oh, that's some good advice right there.
- [32:29]
Melody Hobson
And I would remember. I never. I mean, I tell you the story like it was yesterday. I never forgot that.
- [32:35]
Emma Grede
It's a great.
- [32:36]
Melody Hobson
Ever. Ever.
- [32:46]
Emma Grede
I wonder, how did you get so comfortable being yourself? Because I feel like in your. You must have been in so many rooms where you were the first. Where does that come from?
- [32:56]
Melody Hobson
Okay, this is funny, and this is true. I start off in the industry. I'm 22 years old. I don't know anything. I haven't grown up in the home where the stock market is discussed. I didn't major in finance. I majored in international relations and public policy. But I took a lot of math. I thought about being a math major for a little while, but that when you get to theoretical math in college, you're not even dealing with numbers. And so I go to work at Ariel. I don't know anything. And one of the first assignments I get is I have to go to this conference in Atlanta by myself.
- [33:32]
Emma Grede
Oh, no. Okay, so not at 22.
- [33:34]
Melody Hobson
Yes.
- [33:35]
John Rogers
So I'm at this conference by myself. And this is where you're, like, standing by the bar. Cause you don't know any person in.
- [33:41]
Emma Grede
The room trying to read name badges.
- [33:44]
John Rogers
You don't know anything.
- [33:46]
Melody Hobson
And so as this conference was going on, people would come up to me and they're like, oh, you're Melody. So then the next person. You're Melody. And then it's another person, your Melody. And I'm like, what is going on? And then I started to realize I'm the only one.
- [34:00]
Emma Grede
It's just you.
- [34:01]
Melody Hobson
I'm the only one. So I was like, wait a minute. What if I use this in my favor? So I was like, I'm gonna be like Cher or Beyonce.
- [34:10]
John Rogers
I am not gonna even have a last name that melody with two Ls.
- [34:15]
Melody Hobson
Is gonna be like, oh, you're Melody. I said, I'm gon this difference to my advantage.
- [34:21]
Emma Grede
But it's so interesting that that was your first thought.
- [34:23]
Melody Hobson
That was my first thought.
- [34:24]
Emma Grede
You were not someone who's like, this is like, not for me. You were like, I'm gonna use this.
- [34:29]
Melody Hobson
No, I was like, wait, if you can stand out, then this is the important thing. Not pointing a finger.
- [34:33]
Emma Grede
No, no, go on. I love bone climb. I'm like that.
- [34:37]
Melody Hobson
If you can stand out, then have.
- [34:40]
Emma Grede
Something to say, you better have something to say.
- [34:43]
Melody Hobson
Especially I started to think a lot about, okay, so if you can be a Beyonce or a Cher in terms of one name individual in an industry.
- [34:50]
Emma Grede
You gotta have the skill to back it up, right?
- [34:52]
Melody Hobson
So you have to have something. So no inanities. And so you try to find a way, and you don't. You know, this is one of my pet peeves to this day. Someone who comes and talks to you, and they talk to you about something, and it's like a headline in the Wall Street Journal. You're just like, yeah, I read that too.
- [35:08]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [35:08]
Melody Hobson
That is not insightful.
- [35:10]
Emma Grede
That is not insightful. We all read that article. I don't need you to like, smell it back to me.
- [35:14]
Melody Hobson
So, you know, some people looking for.
- [35:16]
John Rogers
Something to say, they state the obvious.
- [35:18]
Emma Grede
I always think of it like nightclub chat. Like, I'm like, please don't night club chat me in the middle of the day. It's like, uninteresting. It's so. But it's interesting how many shows are different.
- [35:26]
John Rogers
I don't even know what nightclub chat is.
- [35:31]
Melody Hobson
Remember, I'm waking up at 4.
- [35:33]
Emma Grede
I don't know. Spend a lot of time on the other end of four. Let me tell you, I'm really good at nightclub chat. I just don't like it.
- [35:42]
John Rogers
You have to explain that one to me.
- [35:44]
Emma Grede
I will, another time. But that's so interesting to me because, again, from where you came from, to have that, you can first of all use your differences as, like, this reason to lean in. But then you weren't gonna waste it, right? You were gonna take that opportunity and make the connection with somebody actually worth it in those moments.
- [36:04]
Melody Hobson
Yes. And going back to your question, which I did not answer, my mom always told me, make yourself indispensable. She was like, make it so people can't live without you. So I did every job that they asked me to do. I never was unhappy about any job because I always thought to myself, I'm learning something here.
- [36:23]
Emma Grede
Did you ever feel like you needed to conform? Like you needed to fit in?
- [36:27]
Melody Hobson
There's a degree of conformity that exists in my industry that's very important. And I found a way to be original in my conformity.
- [36:37]
Emma Grede
Explain that to me. How do.
- [36:38]
Melody Hobson
So, for example, in the financial services industry, you wear business attire, but mine is different from everyone else's.
- [36:48]
Emma Grede
But it's still business attire, Correct? Because you and I have spoken about this a lot. Like the way you put yourself together, the way that you come into a room. And I know that you think that that's very important. And so do I, by the way.
- [36:59]
Melody Hobson
Well, it is, because I was walking in as a black woman, so I was already in this sort of no man's land. Especially things have changed, but not meaningfully. And so as a result of that, you had to. First of all, that lens of what. What do they see? Because that's going to affect an opinion before you've even spoken. And I was always very realistic about that. You know, I was. You know, I think we'd like the world to be what we want it to be, but it's not.
- [37:25]
Emma Grede
It's not.
- [37:26]
Melody Hobson
So, you know, we could hold onto that idea. And that's what I mean. I Conformed, but in my own way. And so I was always authentically me. I think, you know, authenticity is key to success.
- [37:39]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [37:40]
Melody Hobson
I've seen people not be authentic. They try to be someone else. Like John Rogers and I, we are co CEOs of Ariel. He's very different from me. I didn't try to be him. That would have been a logical thing. People try to fit a mold. I'm very different than him. We therefore become complimentary and become yin and yang.
- [37:59]
Emma Grede
Absolutely.
- [38:00]
Melody Hobson
But that probably would have been an instinct of someone to say, well, this is the model that you're dealing with.
- [38:06]
Emma Grede
So let me be more like that. Yeah. No, but it's very interesting because I do think that at the end of the day, people need to look at you and be comfortable to either, you know, let you handle millions and millions and hundreds of millions of dollars or be around like some huge transaction. And there is a reality as to how you're perceived. And, you know, the. The relationship between those two things. Right. Somebody feeling that they can trust you.
- [38:30]
Melody Hobson
So first of all, you see discipline. Discipline is very. It comes through in lots of ways. I mean, big and small. My assistant, who is a vice president because she's so amazing, she constantly. Or my chief of staff, before I hit email send, read over my shoulder. Are there any typos in this? A typo could kill an opportunity for us because they think you're half assed. And my husband always jokes. He's like, she does not like half assed. He always says, she likes whole ass.
- [39:03]
John Rogers
Of course you do.
- [39:05]
Melody Hobson
He's like, she does not like whole ass.
- [39:07]
Emma Grede
Down to that.
- [39:08]
Melody Hobson
Down to the top.
- [39:09]
Emma Grede
So where else does that come in your life? Cause I imagine that that can't just be relegated to a.
- [39:13]
Melody Hobson
It's not about perfection, but it's about process. You want processes that you don't cut corners. That's a. I don't know if you ever knew that from Dave Thomas, who started at Wendy's. No, the hamburgers are square. Because his grandmother always told him, don't cut corners. It also is. You waste less. I was gonna say you wasted, but yeah, that. I don't cut corners. So if you have a process, you're sending out an important email every time someone reads it. Not sometimes. Every time. Even in my own office, I'll send out something and I'll say, I'm writing alone. No one's here to prove this.
- [39:47]
Emma Grede
So if you see it.
- [39:48]
Melody Hobson
I do.
- [39:50]
Emma Grede
No, you don't. Even if you're doing, like an internal memoir.
- [39:53]
Melody Hobson
Oh, There is nothing worse than sending an email to like 50 people in the office and having 30 people email back, you have a typo in it. And I'll say, I'm writing a loan. There's no one here to prove this. Open it as a PS that is very true. Just so they know, like, I can't.
- [40:08]
Emma Grede
See them as a level of attention to detail. And like you say, it's not about being a perfectionist, it's about process.
- [40:14]
Melody Hobson
Process.
- [40:14]
Emma Grede
It's about you essentially ensuring that whatever you do, whatever is a reflection of you, is at the highest possible level that it can be.
- [40:24]
Melody Hobson
That's the old. Well, they must be good investors. Do you see what I mean? It all comes together. They must be good investors. Oh, they show up, they look a certain way, they present themselves a certain way. I correct people's grammar. In our firm, I do. In their. Oh, all the time. All the time.
- [40:45]
Emma Grede
You do?
- [40:46]
Melody Hobson
Yeah, all the time. I'm like, guys, we can't do this with a client. You know, this grammar is off. And because I'm thinking, I want them to know how disciplined and how much attention we pay to detail because we are asking them for their money. It could be their pension money, it could be their kids college education. This really matters to them. And so therefore, they need to know that we are precise, especially because we invest. We are in a world where there's a lot we can't control. I can't control tariffs, I can't control the stock market. I can't control what might happen tomorrow. So everything I can control, you must correct.
- [41:26]
Emma Grede
That makes a lot of sense. So talk to me a little bit about women and power. I wonder if you've had any instances in your career. And I love the way you.
- [41:34]
Melody Hobson
It's like, lipped.
- [41:36]
John Rogers
Getting tense.
- [41:37]
Emma Grede
It's getting tense. Well, because I think it's something that we talk about all the time. Do you feel like there's times in your career where you have been underestimated or overlooked?
- [41:48]
Melody Hobson
For sure.
- [41:49]
Emma Grede
Even you.
- [41:50]
John Rogers
All the time.
- [41:50]
Emma Grede
All the time, yes.
- [41:52]
Melody Hobson
Underestimation is actually a very good thing.
- [41:55]
Emma Grede
Because they don't see you coming. Yes, I thought you might say that. Give me an example. Do you have an example?
- [42:00]
John Rogers
I worked at a deal once and I can't get into the specifics of it.
- [42:04]
Emma Grede
That's all right.
- [42:04]
John Rogers
But the person on the other side.
- [42:06]
Melody Hobson
We'Re working late at night, we're on this deal, and they're like, wait a minute, who are you?
- [42:14]
John Rogers
And I was like, melody Hobson.
- [42:17]
Emma Grede
I'm Melody Just melody.
- [42:18]
John Rogers
So we're working on this deal, and I could tell I'm being totally underestimated because this person is a giant. And I'm like this little pipsqueak, and.
- [42:26]
Melody Hobson
I'm representing someone in this. And it got kind of intense. And so we're working through it, working through it, working through it. At one point, it got very intense. We're on a tight deadline, and the whole thing's getting very, very complicated, and we're all losing it. And so I demanded that everyone go to bed for three hours. I said, everyone, pencils down. We are so tired. Where everyone's talking and speaking in tongues. Go to bed. We're all going to go to sleep. The principal on the other side calls the next morning, 6:00am, and he's like, you know what I said to my wife, this woman, she's like, fighting so hard for this. She's. I need a person like this. So I go into my husband and, you know, I was like, oh. You know, he's like, I need a melody. And he was like, he's trying to hire you. I was like, no. He's like, yes, he is. And I thought that was so interesting. And I was like, I had been underestimated this whole time. And then I could see him turn into a. He's like, she's fighting so hard.
- [43:25]
Emma Grede
He got it.
- [43:25]
Melody Hobson
And it was one of those things where I knew at that moment, I was like, he totally gets it.
- [43:29]
Emma Grede
He totally gets it. Totally.
- [43:30]
Melody Hobson
And he was like, you are formidable. But it didn't start off that way. I think he thought, like, this is just gonna be a piece of cake.
- [43:36]
Emma Grede
Yeah, I bet he thought it was gonna be a piece of cake.
- [43:37]
Melody Hobson
Yeah, he was gonna piece. And I remember saying to him, I said, you know, I won't ever ask you for anything that I actually don't need. Could you try to do the same?
- [43:44]
Emma Grede
Oh, wow. That's a powerful negotiation tactic. I mean.
- [43:48]
Melody Hobson
And I said, and then if you do that, I will believe you.
- [43:51]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [43:52]
Melody Hobson
And I will work. How hard?
- [43:53]
Emma Grede
Too many times in deals, do people just ask for things they don't need?
- [43:56]
Melody Hobson
No, I said, if you really need it.
- [43:57]
Emma Grede
That's really smart.
- [43:58]
Melody Hobson
I said, if we. We don't have any time. So if you call me and say you need it, I believe you, but I need you to believe me, too.
- [44:06]
Emma Grede
That's amazing. Talk to me a bit about negotiation, because you're clearly, like, an incredible negotiator, and I think it's a place where people have a really hard time advocating for Themselves. But you started off as an intern and now you're clearly, you know, you're an owner in the firm. You have skin in the game. How do people advocate for themselves and get what they need?
- [44:28]
Melody Hobson
Well, I want to make sure you understand. I always had go to's to give me a lot of great advice. There were forks in the road along the way, and I went to really smart people. I am never too proud to ask for help. As I say, just like the song, I'm not too proud to beg. I'm not.
- [44:42]
Emma Grede
You still do that now at this point in your career?
- [44:44]
Melody Hobson
Yeah, constant.
- [44:45]
Emma Grede
Me too. I'm a constant.
- [44:46]
Melody Hobson
I have lifelines everywhere.
- [44:48]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [44:49]
Melody Hobson
And there were some forks in the road that were around self advocacy that were very, very monumental. And one was when I was about 40 years old and a friend called me and he said, you know, melody, you're 40. Are you staying at Ariel or are you gonna do something else? I said, well, why are you asking that? And he's like, you can't switch when you're 50. So he's like, so if you're gonna stay there, then this has to really be meaningful. You have to know what this is, what you're going to own, et cetera.
- [45:18]
Emma Grede
What a great friend.
- [45:20]
Melody Hobson
And so he was like, you really should have the talk with John Rogers about that. Not in a threatening way, but just sort of say, I need to know if you're gonna stay. Get this all sorted out.
- [45:31]
Emma Grede
Yeah. And get what you need out the situation.
- [45:32]
Melody Hobson
Get it all sorted out.
- [45:33]
Emma Grede
Why do you think that people. Cause I know, like, there's such a. We still have such kind of, you know, inequality when it comes to this. Gender pay gain.
- [45:41]
Melody Hobson
Yes.
- [45:42]
Emma Grede
And again, you know, women find it very, very difficult to go in and to advocate for themselves. What do you. Why do you think that is? And what do you think we can do better to make sure that we do get what we deserve?
- [45:55]
Melody Hobson
I think, I think most women are real team players. We're loyal and we're team players and we expect good things to happen to us and we don't necessarily understand. I think I've been naive at times, so I'm not saying this in any condescending way. You just think it's going to work out and sometimes you have to ask and put people on the spot. I think that if I were giving advice about how to advocate, because I have had people come to me and I've had them do it the right way and do it the wrong way, so I can tell you the Wrong way is when you really don't know what you're talking about and you have overstated your significance or your value. That's the biggest thing that is a killer. The person never looks at you the same way. Never.
- [46:38]
Emma Grede
Yeah, you can't walk it back. That's the problem.
- [46:40]
Melody Hobson
Exactly.
- [46:40]
Emma Grede
Because once you put that out into the universe, it's there, it exists between the two of you and there's no walking back.
- [46:46]
Melody Hobson
And so then you just think like, well, you just don't know anything.
- [46:48]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [46:49]
Melody Hobson
And so then you think, well, how valuable could you be? You like, go into a whole spin.
- [46:53]
Emma Grede
And you're out of it.
- [46:53]
Melody Hobson
Right. So if you are asking, make sure you have good information.
- [46:57]
Emma Grede
And good information for you. Is what it's like an understanding of what you bring to that organization or.
- [47:03]
Melody Hobson
Is it what the job is worth?
- [47:04]
Emma Grede
Got it.
- [47:05]
Melody Hobson
What the. You know, because there's nothing worse than the person who's asking for something that like, literally doesn't exist.
- [47:09]
Emma Grede
Totally. You know, I can't find it somewhere else.
- [47:11]
Melody Hobson
They're like, you know, I want to be your chief of staff and I want to make $500,000, you know, like.
- [47:15]
Emma Grede
Not gonna happen nowhere. Yes. You know what I mean?
- [47:19]
Melody Hobson
So it's like, if you can get that job, go get it.
- [47:23]
Emma Grede
I wish you well.
- [47:23]
Melody Hobson
Yeah, you know, it's like that kind of thing. But it is also the thing where you say, know what the real value is of the job and then know what you contributed. You know, I've done these things. And again, I'm back to questions versus statements. What do you think I could be doing better or more in order to advance myself in the ways that help me achieve my own long term goals. Then you have to have someone give it back to you of this, that be as concrete as possible so that you know what you're working towards. But then you have to be able to accept the feedback. And this is the part that gets really gnarly because some people, when you give them the feedback and you're like this, this and this, they start arguing with you. It's not the time.
- [48:08]
Emma Grede
It's not the time.
- [48:09]
Melody Hobson
So at least at the very minimum, you go and let it sort of.
- [48:13]
Emma Grede
Wash over you take the feedback, come back in a couple of months having digested what you've been told and hopefully, you know, playing out with yourself.
- [48:21]
Melody Hobson
You might actually disagree. Yes, you might. Or you might learn something in the process, but you don't react in the moment. I think that's when the negotiations break down very fast because you End up sounding very defensive. So if you can dispute the idea, not in a gotcha, because I've had those people 30 pages back. You're like, if you did your job this well, you'd be gay.
- [48:45]
John Rogers
I've never gotten 30 pages on anything else that I've asked you about, but I get 30 pages on your job performance.
- [48:51]
Melody Hobson
You know, that's another killer.
- [48:54]
Emma Grede
Yeah, it's another killer. Do you feel like I've heard you talk a little bit about your, you know, your personal history and where you came from and having, you know, trauma that's connected to money? And so, again, like, this idea of how you overcome your fear with money at this point, you know, you've written an incredible children's book that's all about. It's called Priceless Facts about Money, which I love, and I bought immediately for my own children. But I'm kind of interested in how you think about your relationship to money now and how, like, how do you speak to the people within your organization about that?
- [49:28]
Melody Hobson
It's evolved. So Warren Buffett says, do the job you would do if you didn't need a job. That's what I do. So I don't work for money, and I don't say that casually or in a dispassionate way. I like doing well, but that's not what drives me today. It drove me very much when I was 22. So things can evolve over time. That was the thing that I needed and wanted, was financial security. Now that I do believe financial security has been achieved, I want to make sure Ariel is successful. And so the way I talk to about my team is I always say I want them to exceed their own expectations. That's my job. I want our clients to feel that we've exceeded their expectations. That's my job. So I talk about money through that. I'm good. And I want them to feel that same way, the people who work with me. And so I always tell them, I work for our clients, and I work for each of them. I literally work for them. And I told them, you work for each other and you work for me. And so we have to know that our job affects someone's kid, going to college, their mortgage payment, all of those things. I take that very, very, very seriously, just as I take the fact that we're fiduciaries for our clients money. And it's that pension fund, as I said that, college education and the like.
- [50:53]
Emma Grede
And I'm such a huge believer in. And yet I'm, like, completely allergic to toxic positivity. I feel like there's so much of that around. And I wonder what makes you uniquely able to do what you do? Like, what do you think it is inside of you that makes you so successful and so able to see around the corners and have such clarity around what it is that you're doing?
- [51:17]
Melody Hobson
So I've always felt that I was on a quest to grow and learn and be better. And every day I'm trying to just eek out a little bit more that'll make me better or learn something new. I told this story of when I first started working at Ariel. I was John's sidekick, and I would just follow up on everything he wanted me to do. And I remember having this real moment of just, like, concern that I said, what if I'm just a great order taker? I'm really good at executing, but I have no vision. How do I get vision? And so I went through all of these exercises, tried to force myself to have vision. It'd take too long to explain.
- [51:57]
Emma Grede
Oh, no, I'm not even gonna ask you what you did.
- [51:59]
Melody Hobson
But it was a lot. And I started to say, I wanna be able to try to have vision. Then I realized vision means conquering fear. Because once you decide to go out on that limb and dangle, there's, like, nothing to help you. There's nothing to do. You're, like, gripping by your hands, by your finger fingernails. George always says to me, he says, you know, you are a person who, when you are confronted by a brick wall, you look for loose bricks. He's like, you start looking, where's the brick? Loose. So there's something about the fear and the willingness to confront hard that I think has made me uniquely me. But I talk to myself in my head, and I get strength from others. I really use other people as my friends in my head to get me through.
- [52:54]
Emma Grede
Do you think that's one of the keys to your success?
- [52:57]
Melody Hobson
Oh, they have no idea how close I am to them.
- [53:00]
Emma Grede
Interesting.
- [53:01]
Melody Hobson
I said that about the Pope the other day.
- [53:03]
Emma Grede
Did you?
- [53:04]
Melody Hobson
The Pope is a friend. In my head, he was. And I kept thinking, I'm like, in terms of people with global voices, he was one of the few people where a leader who could speak and globally have it breakthrough. And it broke through around kindness and goodness. Never sharp, never disparaging. And I had, like, I. That meant something to me. And I was like, wow, he does that in such an amazing way. He never seems petty.
- [53:31]
Emma Grede
Wow, that's amazing.
- [53:31]
Melody Hobson
And I literally, in my head, I would read his headlines or read what he said. And I'm like, how do you aspire to that? How can you get a little bit of that? How does he get that kind of agency in the world? And his agency is not because he's pope. Cause there are other popes that weren't as significant, but his comes through a very specific lens of caring about people. And so there are a lot of times where I use a person. Again, I don't know. I talk about Lewis Hamilton, who's like my little brother.
- [54:02]
Emma Grede
He's an amnest man.
- [54:03]
Melody Hobson
Louis never quits. So when I feel I'm on the edge, I want to stop. The pain is there, the tired, all those things. I literally just keep saying to myself, louis would not quit.
- [54:18]
Emma Grede
Who else is a person like that for you in your life?
- [54:21]
Melody Hobson
Michelle Obama. In my head, I'm like, she's done hard things and she is so studied. Someone told me a story about how when she was doing her book tour, every single night, every single night, she'd come back to her room and debrief with the entire team about what she could have done better. Every single time.
- [54:39]
Emma Grede
Wow.
- [54:40]
Melody Hobson
Every single time.
- [54:42]
Emma Grede
Do you invite that kind of criticism in your life?
- [54:44]
Melody Hobson
Yes, of course I want it. But the thing is, you know, you get to a certain stage where people don't want to give it to you.
- [54:49]
Emma Grede
Oh, yeah.
- [54:50]
Melody Hobson
And I have always surrounded myself with truth. George will give it to me. There is no chaser. There's nothing there.
- [54:58]
Emma Grede
I know what that feels like. I married a Swedish man. So I get that straightforward critique every day. Yeah. Literally no sides, no dilution.
- [55:07]
John Rogers
The whining.
- [55:08]
Melody Hobson
He says to be able to forget about it, the job, you know, it's.
- [55:11]
John Rogers
Like there's not even a.
- [55:12]
Melody Hobson
You know.
- [55:13]
John Rogers
You know, there's no air of anything. You might give me a hug.
- [55:16]
Melody Hobson
But yeah, there are a lot of people that I have in my life where they give it to me straight, which I also think has helped me. I remember being like 25 years old and I said, I want to be intellectually honest with myself. Myself.
- [55:27]
Emma Grede
Oh, that's a big one.
- [55:29]
Melody Hobson
And I was like, that's gonna take some work.
- [55:31]
Emma Grede
That's gonna take a lot of work.
- [55:33]
Melody Hobson
Ourselves into believing and making excuses and having reasons. And I was like, I wanna hold myself accountable.
- [55:40]
Emma Grede
Well, it works both ways, doesn't it? It's like you can talk yourself in or out of anything every day.
- [55:45]
Melody Hobson
And so I said, and so you.
- [55:46]
Emma Grede
Have to make it a habit.
- [55:47]
Melody Hobson
Be accountable.
- [55:48]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [55:48]
Melody Hobson
You know, no excuses. Literally no excuses. Either did or you didn't and you can't. Well, I was tired. I was this. I was that. You either did or you didn't. Do or do not. There is no try. You either did or you didn't. So intellectual honesty forced me to be really clear about when I was not great, when I was not treating someone well, There were times I would be speaking the words and saying, in my head, you're being such a jerk.
- [56:17]
Emma Grede
In my head, sounds like you're that person for yourself. I have.
- [56:21]
Melody Hobson
I would like. I would like. Why are you speaking to this person like this? You're being such a jerk.
- [56:27]
Emma Grede
Wow.
- [56:27]
Melody Hobson
Be intellectually honest or it wasn't your best job. It wasn't your best work. We didn't get the account because you just didn't do that well that day. Instead of making so many big success.
- [56:37]
Emma Grede
It takes a lot, and I feel like that is a muscle because that is something that you have to practice. Like that level of honesty. So few people have it. If I take one thing away today from our conversation, that will be it. Just increasing that level of intellectual honesty, because I think it's very, very hard to get there. I live on group chats. I did not hit the family group chat. I would never do that to you. But my girlfriend group chat I did hit up. And the question that they wanted to ask you was about difficult conversations and how you learn to get comfortable with having difficult conversations at work. How have you done that?
- [57:14]
Melody Hobson
I know what I want to know. I don't want to have people bullshit me. I really want to know. And I think a lot of times we don't tell people what they need to know to make them better. Now the question is, how do you do it in a way that you don't have to be. I remember Dick Parsons. I was on the board of Estee Lauder with him for years and years, and I once asked him for feedback, and I said, dick, be brutally honest with me. He said, I'll be honest, but I don't need to be brutal. And so I do think that I always want to know. And so I believe people want to know. What I've learned is everyone doesn't.
- [57:47]
Emma Grede
I was going to say that.
- [57:47]
Melody Hobson
But I still think it's my job to try to give the feedback that will be in the best interest of the firm, all of us.
- [57:56]
Emma Grede
That's a great answer. All right, we're going to move to rapid fire. The first thing you do when you wake up in the morning, please look at my phone.
- [58:06]
Melody Hobson
I just need to make sure I.
- [58:07]
John Rogers
Need to make sure the world is still.
- [58:09]
Melody Hobson
Markets overseas are going on.
- [58:12]
Emma Grede
What are you getting from that? At the moment it's fire. Fire, fire.
- [58:15]
Melody Hobson
No.
- [58:16]
Emma Grede
You know this unrelaxing way in the world to wake up.
- [58:19]
Melody Hobson
I know, but I do.
- [58:20]
Emma Grede
You're straight up my phone.
- [58:21]
Melody Hobson
I have to. I'm on the west coast. The east coast might be up.
- [58:24]
Emma Grede
Damn.
- [58:25]
Melody Hobson
Cause it's 7am A lot has happened and so I look at my phone first.
- [58:29]
Emma Grede
Okay, fair enough. And the last thing you do before you go to bed.
- [58:34]
Melody Hobson
The last thing I do before I go to bed is I go into my daughter's room and tell her to go to bed and hug her again. She won't go to sleep.
- [58:44]
Emma Grede
Go to sleep. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life?
- [58:50]
Melody Hobson
I want my sports fund to work and I want Ariel to be successful. It's always the same. I just want us to get better at what we do. I don't have any sort of new thing that I have to do.
- [59:03]
Emma Grede
Well, I mean project level, which is your sports fund. I mean, when I heard about that, I actually think you were the first person. And then after you said it, it's just come up over and over and over again. And I saw the amazing panel that you did.
- [59:14]
Melody Hobson
Women's sports.
- [59:15]
Emma Grede
Yeah. I mean the idea that you are taking charge of women's sports because I think that we're all obsessed with women's sports right now. But it's still, again, it's a man's game. The teams are owned by the men and the, you know, the whole thing changing our dominance. And I know you will, like there's just no doubt. So good for you. I'm excited for you. What are you aspiring for in your personal life?
- [59:38]
Melody Hobson
My daughter to turn out okay. That's my only job. Like that one feels mission critical, existential. It feels like if I don't do that well, I have failed at everything and I know she's counting on me. So everything else is a backseat to that and it feels more important every day. It's different when they're four and when they're 11 and everything feels different. So in my personal life, I want her to. I don't want to damage her.
- [60:07]
Emma Grede
Yeah, no, I totally understand that. I think an 11 year old now is like a 14, 15 year old and they don't need you less the older they get. They actually need you more and more, which is, I think that, you know, as a mother of four right now I'm learning because you kind of feel like, oh, the baby phase is over. And I'm like, no, no, no. This is the. This is the hard part. This is the part where they really need you. It's kind of amazing. Tell me, what is a book that's changed your life?
- [60:36]
Melody Hobson
Wow. There've been so many. I love the book Buffett the Making of the American Capitalist by Roger Lowenstein. That's my favorite business book. I love the book Grit. And more recently, Angela Delgart. And more recently, I love the book Unreasonable Hospitality.
- [60:52]
Emma Grede
Oh, I never read that.
- [60:53]
Melody Hobson
By Will Guidera. About. It's about a restaurant. I love that book. Oh, that one. Really? It is so good.
- [61:00]
Emma Grede
Really?
- [61:00]
Melody Hobson
Oh, Unreasonable Hospitality.
- [61:02]
Emma Grede
So glad you mentioned unreasonable Hospitality. I will get it. Okay. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't now?
- [61:10]
Melody Hobson
I think I had a perception of people's accomplishments that I valued in a way that I don't value today. What I mean by that is not to belittle their accomplishments, but I care more about heart and soul than titles or money or influence, and so I value people who care about other people. I always valued it, but I would spend so much time reading about the greats and what made them great and all of those things. Now I want to meet. I want to understand what makes a person a good person.
- [61:47]
Emma Grede
That's a fantastic answer. What is something that you value now that you didn't back then?
- [61:55]
Melody Hobson
I have a much different perspective on life. One of our colleagues died last week, so I'm very wrong.
- [62:01]
Emma Grede
I'm so sorry.
- [62:02]
Melody Hobson
Yeah. He had a heart attack at 50.
- [62:03]
Emma Grede
Oh, wow.
- [62:04]
Melody Hobson
And you just. It is a very, very, very, very hard thing. And so the fragility and the fact that at any moment I had not ever experienced that of someone I love just dying one day out of nowhere, it just has been very, very, very sobering.
- [62:22]
Emma Grede
Yeah. It'll rock you to your core.
- [62:24]
Melody Hobson
Yeah. It's gonna take me a while to get over it.
- [62:26]
Emma Grede
Yeah. Well, Melody, I was so unbelievably grateful for you being here and taking the time on a Saturday of all days. So happy to be here, but actually even more now because I know that it's so difficult and it speaks to so much your. And your character and just the type of person that you are, that once you said you'd come, that after the week and what you've been through this week, that you would come and turn up for me. So I'm super, super grateful and so happy to spend this, you know, couple of hours having the chat, and I feel like so many people will get so much from just just seeing you first of all, but also from your very very wise words. So I'm super grateful.
- [63:08]
Melody Hobson
Well, you are a bright light and we are all watching and we're in the glow basking and I am so very happy for you and all that you're accomplishing and all that you will still do, which is a lot.
- [63:19]
Emma Grede
Thank you means the most coming from you. Thank you my dear. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'd be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddy Sprung Keyser, Leah Rees Dennis and Jenna Bice Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox and Kurt Courtney Social media by Olivia Homan Special thanks go to Britney Smith, Sydney Ford. My teams at Jonesworks and wne Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose Tim Meekol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D e. That's Aspire A S P I R e with me, Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emma Greed Me.