← Aspire with Emma Grede
Aspire with Emma Grede
Aspire with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: The Power of Knowing Your "Why"
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- [00:00]
Michelle Obama
Foreign.
- [00:10]
Emma Grede
On today's very special episode of the Aspire Podcast, straight from Washington, D.C. we're getting ready to learn some life lessons from two of the best Former First Lady Michelle Obama and her big brother Craig Robinson have inspired millions. And now they're sitting down with me to open up about the biggest takeaways they've learned along the way. And if you're thinking about how to give your life more meaning or what really matters, this is the episode for you. I don't know about you, but I have serious protein goals and finding protein filled snacks is a challenge when you're always on the go like me. Life moves fast. Work, kids, errands. It never stops. And yet somehow you're supposed to eat well in the middle of all that. That's where great tasting Bavarian Meats Little Lan Jaeger Snack Sticks come in. They're naturally fermented, slow smoked for bold flavor, packed with 9 grams of protein per serving and they have zero sugar and zero carbs. It's a snack that keeps up with your day. Whether you're racing between meetings, school drop off, or just trying to finish your to do list, take a moment to savor something delicious for you. And did I mention they're portable? So toss a few in your gym bag, your glove box or wherever. Pick up a pack today at your local grocer or stock up@bavarianmeats.com podcast Bavarian meats snack sticks great taste, zero sugar I used to think I needed a full drawer of makeup and at least 20 minutes to look presentable in the morning. But then I tried Merit and now I'm done in five minutes. Merit is a minimalist beauty brand that's made to simplify your routine. It's for people who want to feel put together without spending a ton of time or energy. Their products are clean, vegan, and so easy to use you genuinely can't mess them up even half asleep. Lately I've been reaching for Flush Balm every morning. It gives me the most natural looking flush and it blends like a dream. The Minimalist is another go to. It's part foundation, part concealer and it evens out my skin in seconds without feeling heavy and great skin serum. My skin just looks better and more hydrated every time I use it. Merit has made my mornings feel less rushed and more effortless, which I didn't really think was possible. It's time to simplify your morning. Head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. Craig Mrs. Obama, I am Michelle I.
- [02:48]
Michelle Obama
Can'T say, Craig, that sounded odd.
- [02:51]
Emma Grede
First of all, thank you for that, because I have a lot of. Mrs. Obama. Mrs. Obama. Mrs. Obama. All through my thing, I was not going to take the liberty, so thank you for that.
- [02:59]
Michelle Obama
It's a pleasure.
- [03:00]
Emma Grede
I was ready to Mrs. Obama my way through this.
- [03:02]
Craig Robinson
I wouldn't have let you do that. I would not have let you. She might have kept it this way.
- [03:06]
Emma Grede
No, I mean, listen, she. She stopped me straight away, which I'm very, very grateful for. I want to start by saying I'm so happy to have you. I'm extremely grateful for the time and extremely excited to have this conversation. So.
- [03:18]
Michelle Obama
Well, this is family here.
- [03:20]
Emma Grede
Thank you.
- [03:21]
Michelle Obama
So we are happy to be here. You've been such a support to us, the foundation. You are amazing, and we're so proud of all that you're doing here, so we are thrilled. I will speak for my brother.
- [03:34]
Craig Robinson
She is as she want to do.
- [03:37]
Emma Grede
Well, that means the most coming from you. And we can just finish now because that's all right. I am, honestly, it's just been so wonderful even doing the research about the two of you, because I have to say, I always wanted a big brother. I'm one of four girls. I don't, sadly, don't have a big brother. But just hearing more about your relationship and the way you describe your relationship, it's just so beautiful. Like this idea of you having a protector, I think you said somewhere, you know, you feel like he's always got your arm, like he's always carrying you, he's always got your back, which I thought was so lovely and so wonderful. Isn't that so nice? But as siblings, you know, we spend so much time together in our childhood. And I know that at some point you guys shared a bedroom, which I did with my sisters, and it gives, like, a. A different type of intensity to your relationships. And then, of course, we grow up, life happens, you go off and you do different things. And so my first question was really to ask both of you, how do you think your parents would feel about the two of you working together now and doing this podcast?
- [04:40]
Craig Robinson
Oh, that. You hit us right in the heart, right with the first one.
- [04:44]
Michelle Obama
Well, you know, our mom, it's a year since her death in May, and I think one of the reasons that inspired us to start, imo, was it was a great way once Craig and I realized that we are the elders now in our family, losing our mom, and we've lost a lot of the seniors in our life that our generation is now the generation with the wisdom. And, you know, when you lose your mom, you have to start embracing the truth of who you are. No longer are you somebody's daughter or son, but you are the person that people are looking up to in your family. Even though maybe that was the case long before because of our positions, but you don't feel it. So this podcast is kind of a tribute to our parents, a way for us to spend time together, to make it a point that we're spending time together, but also to share a lot of the wisdom that Marian and Frasier Robinson passed down to us around a kitchen table that got us both where we are today. So I. I know they would be.
- [05:54]
Craig Robinson
Proud, and they both would be cracking up, too. They would. I. I think they would find it humorous that the two of us are sort of back in each other's lives like this so, so closely. And I would just love to hear mom's reaction to some of the things, some of the topics we talked about.
- [06:16]
Emma Grede
Do you think you'd get every episode feedback? Is that the type of family you come from?
- [06:20]
Craig Robinson
Oh, yeah, yeah. I think especially our mom. My mom would be like, well, I don't remember that, actually. She would claim not to remember anything negative and remember all of the things positive.
- [06:33]
Emma Grede
I love that. Well, you know, I started this podcast because I really wanted to speak to the people that I aspire to the most. And, Michelle, I mean, it goes without saying, and for probably for half the people on this planet, you are one of the most inspiring individuals ever. I wonder who the two of you aspire to.
- [06:52]
Craig Robinson
Oh, I'll go first on that one. Seeing how we were just talking about this. You know, when I was little, I looked up to my dad. He was the guy I looked up to. Now there were, like, most boys. I had sports figures and entertainers that you were like, oh, I wouldn't mind doing that. And I wouldn't mind being Ernie Banks from the Chicago Cubs. But, you know, our dad was such a positive force in not just our lives, but anybody's life that he touched. And I really admired that about him. And Emma, you probably know, he had a disability. He had Ms. And I just. To me, it just made him even stronger because he got up every day and went to work. And when he came home, you know, Misha and I talk. Were just talking about this. He would sometimes come home and just get in front of the tv, but if we were outside playing, he'd come out and play with us even after he was working. So, you know, I really Aspired to be the type of dad that I had, so that's who I looked up to.
- [08:05]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. And I think similarly, instead of aspiring to people that I don't know or didn't meet or haven't met, and I've met a lot of people over my life now, I think it was the people in our orbit. I mean, we came from a working class, lower middle class background, big family, but we had a lot of people to aspire to. You know, my great aunt Robbie that I talk about in becoming, who taught me how to play the piano, even though we were combatants at it. But she was someone in the community who was a real force. She taught piano lessons to the kids in the neighborhood. She ran what was called an operetta workshop where inner city kids came to the basement of a church and learned opera and singing and using the recorder. We learned how to enunciate, how to. In the basement of a church. She was the musical director. She was a elementary school teacher. You know, we had people in our lives like that, real live role models, other teachers in our lives that I think really left an impact and made me want to probably set the stage for me, mentoring and understanding that I had an obligation in my life to do more than just make money or to work at a corporate firm. I think that those were the people who led me to feel like I owed more to life than sitting on the 47th floor of a corporate firm and making money working for corporate clients.
- [09:38]
Emma Grede
It's interesting that that's what you both took from your childhood, because I think when you grow up in somewhere like the south side of Chicago. I mean, I grew up in a very similar area in England. There was so much negativity around me. I had a great family, but a lot of people complained a lot and they blamed a lot. And the sense from the two of you is that while there was a lot of stuff happening around you, you were able and your family kind of created this amazing nucleus for you to, you know, feel like you should be mentors. How did, like, what was going on around you not seep through into what was happening in your childhood?
- [10:16]
Craig Robinson
Well, I would. I would say, see, we're older than you are, and it was a different time and people weren't complaining. I don't remember people complaining around us. I actually remember it being more of a village where.
- [10:32]
Emma Grede
Like a proper community.
- [10:34]
Craig Robinson
A proper community, yes. And I love that term proper in a while, a proper community, but where you had your neighbors and your friend's parents and teacher, everybody was holding everybody accountable. And I think we just are missing that these days. For whatever reason, people are fearful of parenting somebody else's kids when their parents aren't around. But I remember our mom saying that we were not anything special in the neighborhood. I mean, they loved us and nurtured us, but she also felt that our friends could do whatever we could do. And the kids who were around the block who, where single parent kids could do exactly what we could do with the right environment.
- [11:23]
Michelle Obama
So there was always the question my mom got when we were in the White House, how did you raise two successful, highly aspirational figures? And as Craig said mom would say, there are a million of Michelle and Craig Robinsons all over the place, the world. You know, my mom understood that excellence wasn't because of your birthright or money or status, because she and my father, my mother didn't work until I went to high school. She was a stay at home mom. Our dad was a stationary fireman, worked for the city. He was a blue collar worker. But we came from a community of really smart people. They didn't have opportunity because of racism, but there was still a high rate of intelligence and they produced kids just like us. And so there was a pride, you know, not sort of anger or complaining, there was a pride and a belief that what we had was more than enough. And I think that's probably why our role models are the people that were right before us. Because no, they weren't doctors and lawyers and successful politicians, but they were good people who cared about their kids, who cared about their community, who invested a lot in, in, in the world. And I think there's still communities out there like it. I'll just ask you that.
- [12:49]
Emma Grede
Yeah, because it's changed so much now. Right. You mentioned like, you know, that was a, it was a different time. And I think people really crave community.
- [12:57]
Michelle Obama
But also focus on the negative. And I think social media plays a role in that. You know, showing shots of kids getting shot down in neighborhoods is a lot more eye catching than showing a bunch of kids going to school and doing their homework. And so I think a lot of communities get a bad rap because all you see is what's wrong. And we don't focus a lot on all that's right. I think Craig and I are living proof that there is not yesterday, but today. There are a lot of right things happening in communities. We just have to continue to invest in them. We have to show kids that we believe in who they are, that we believe they have the skills we Saw it when we were in Malawi together, right? We went to one of the poorest communities in a poor country, and we saw dozens of girls showing up ready to learn. And they had less than any of us ever did growing up, but they had everything inside of them to achieve everything. Everything, you know, and we live in a world that stops believing in all kids. We grew up in a place where everyone believed in all kids. And, you know, that's a message. This is what can be. This is what you reap when you invest and you believe in all kids, regardless of where they come from or how much money they come from.
- [14:27]
Emma Grede
I was actually going to talk about it much later in this conversation, but because you talk about how you're investing your time, I'd love you to talk to me a little bit more about the foundation and the work that you're doing at the foundation, because you've chose very purposefully with all of the things that you could do to invest specifically in and around leadership, believing in kids, believing in the good of people and what they're capable of. So why specifically leadership?
- [14:58]
Michelle Obama
It's leadership, and it's more specifically young people. It's young leadership. So at the Obama Presidential center, which is scheduled to open in the late spring and summer of next year, and we are thrilled. It is not just a presidential center.
- [15:14]
Emma Grede
Oh, no, it's not.
- [15:15]
Michelle Obama
It is an economic development engine on the south side, down the street from where we grew up, across the street from a public high school.
- [15:21]
Emma Grede
How proud are you to have it?
- [15:24]
Michelle Obama
So proud.
- [15:25]
Emma Grede
Crazy.
- [15:26]
Michelle Obama
We are, you know, our blood, sweat and tears, who we are, our foundation, our roots, everything that we are was grounded in that community. And to be able to invest in that way of. We are proud. But both Barack and I understand that change comes from the next generation, and we see it now. You know, if you overstay your welcome as a leader in any form, you don't make room for the next generation. And so Barack and I, in addition to both of us, investing our lives in mentoring, we thought, well, we need to make room. We need to use this part in our lives, not to continue to build who we are, but to make space for those that are coming. And leadership comes from all parts of the world, all parts of the country. And we're trying to bring together not just young leaders from the south side of Chicago, but from Asia and Africa and all parts of the world. And one of the things that young people need in leadership is they need to know one another. They need to be able to network. They need to know that they're out there. And these aren't just leaders working in community development or in policy. I mean, the young people coming out of the Obama Presidential center leadership programs could be sitting in C suites. They could be sitting in your seat.
- [16:45]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [16:45]
Michelle Obama
But the goal is to train them in a whole foundation of democracy and empathy and a whole different definition of what leadership can be, not what it looks like today.
- [16:59]
Emma Grede
Exactly. And I think that that's so clear. I mean, I spent time in South Africa with the foundation as well, and I'm a very, very proud member of the board. But what was so interesting to me is looking at the Obama leaders, is to see how varied they were. There were people working in reproductive health. There were people working in education. There were those climate change. And it was so interesting. I wonder what, you know, has made you, and of course, your husband and the. And the team that you work with so uniquely positioned to tackle this issue. Like, what makes you able to take this on? Because it's no small feat.
- [17:37]
Michelle Obama
No, no. You know, look, Barack's presidency was the result of young people. You know, maybe it felt like it happened a long ago, but when Barack first announced, no one thought he would ever. The kid by the name of Barack Hussein Obama would ever be the first black president of the United States of America. And who believed in him first? Young people, people in their teens and 20s, you know, they were using the early versions of social media, which was meetup, to develop.
- [18:10]
Emma Grede
That was a long time ago.
- [18:11]
Michelle Obama
That was a very long time ago. When we entered the White House, we came with blackberries. There were no iPhones. Social media didn't exist.
- [18:19]
Emma Grede
Wow, that's crazy to think about.
- [18:21]
Michelle Obama
It came into. We were all on blackberries first term. We were learning about Snapchat and Instagram, and it was all brand new. So the world was a world of young people. And so our field organizers, our, you know, our development folks, you know, the folks on the ground in that campaign that led to his win in Iowa and beyond, these were all mostly 30 and below young people. And so we saw firsthand the energy and the tenacity and the passion and the belief that young people bring to a movement. And so all those young people follow us into the White House. And so the eight years in the White House of learning about this country, learning how to lead young men and women at the helms in all departments throughout the country. And in my opinion, we had some of the best progress with a level of optimism and hope and inclusion, because that's what you get when you work with young people.
- [19:24]
Emma Grede
Oh, yeah.
- [19:25]
Michelle Obama
Well.
- [19:25]
Emma Grede
And it had global ramifications.
- [19:27]
Michelle Obama
Exactly.
- [19:27]
Emma Grede
I didn't even live in this country at that point. And that was something that was felt globally. I mean, we would wake ourselves up in the middle of the night to watch those speeches that had no bearings on what was happening in England. But it did. You know, the ripple effects were felt so, so far and wide. You know, there was a time when I was constantly stressing over overdraft fees and late payments. I check my bank balance, think I was fine and boom, some automatic payment would hit and I'd get hit with a $35 fee. I remember wishing I had a better way to stay on top of things. And that's why Chime is so great. Chime understands that every dollar counts. That's why when you set up direct deposit through Chime, you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early, and more. What's so great about Chime is that you can access customer service 24 7, so you can get help whenever you need it. Chime is banking done right. No monthly fees, no maintenance fees. And with qualifying director products, you can even get free overdraft coverage up to $200. To date, Chime has spotted members over $30 billion. Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in 2 minutes@chime.com aspire that's chime.com aspire. Chime feels like progress. If you've ever tried starting a business, you know it shouldn't be so complicated. That's why I'm all about Northwest Registered Agent. They make it easy. We're talking your full business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Seriously, get more with Northwest. More privacy, more support and more freedom to run your business your way. For just $39 plus state fees, they'll form your business, create a custom website, and even help you build a local presence no matter where you are. They've been doing this for nearly 30 years. Real business experts, real solutions all in one easy to use account. From formation paperwork to trademark registration to custom domains, it's your one stop shop. Don't wait, protect your privacy, build your brand and set up your business in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com aspire and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent@northwestregisteredagent.com Aspire the Wellness Space is crowded with gimmicks and quick fixes. But long term performance that takes the right Foundation. That's why I was so excited to find the woman's three from Momentous. It's a simple science backed system created with Dr. Stacy Sims, one of the world's leading experts in female physiology. Together, they didn't just create another product. They address what most women actually need across every stage of life. The system focuses on iron, calcium and vitamin D3, three nutrients that are often overlooked but critical for energy, bone health, recovery and resilience. And the way it's delivered matters. AM and PM doses are optimized to avoid nutrient interference and boost absorption. Every ingredient in the Women's three is NSF certified for sport, the gold standard in independent testing. It's not the industry norm. It's the momentous standard. That means it's suitable for professional and Olympic athletes. There's verified label accuracy and guaranteed purity and potency. But this isn't just about products. Momentous is also stepping up with Change the ratio, a $500,000 commitment to close the gender gap in health and performance Science. With only 6% of studies dedicated to women's physiology and biology. In this space, they're investing in the research institutions and experts who are changing the game. For women, this is about more than equity. It's about seeing what's truly possible. So if you're ready to cut through the noise and build your routine on real science, check it out. Head to livemomentous.com and use code EMMA for up to 35% off your first order. That's emmaivemomentous.com Craig, I wanted to ask you, I mean, you've got lots of great memories, I'm sure of Michelle in the early years, but is there something that you can share, like a memory that captures the essence and the core of who your sister is?
- [23:57]
Craig Robinson
Wow.
- [23:58]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
- [23:59]
Emma Grede
I'm going to ask you the same questions. You can get ready.
- [24:03]
Craig Robinson
So this is the essence of my sister. Imagine for my birthday, it was probably my fourth or fifth birthday and I get a brand new bicycle two wheeler with the training wheels. So I hadn't figured out how to ride a two wheeler yet. And it was really a real surprise. And I got my bike, I ride it up in the basement. And who comes tooling around the corner on her tricycle happier than I am that I got a new bike was my little sister who couldn't have been more than four years old. And she was so happy for me. And that embodies what kind of sister she is. She's just caring and selfless and happy for other people's success. And I used that one as an example, but I could probably come up with five or six more of those where she was as happy as I was for my success.
- [25:15]
Emma Grede
Just a generous person.
- [25:17]
Craig Robinson
Yes.
- [25:18]
Emma Grede
That's so sweet.
- [25:19]
Craig Robinson
You remember that?
- [25:20]
Michelle Obama
I do. I do. It's one of my favorite pictures of us. Me in my little favorite red velvet dress on my tricycle. And I'm looking up at him like, look at my big brother. He's amazing.
- [25:32]
Emma Grede
That is just the sweetest. Do you have a memory of Craig that will tell me?
- [25:37]
Michelle Obama
I mean, that's. That's one of the. I mean, that's what I thought of my brother. He was amazing. He was an amazing person to follow after, because everyone loved Craig. I mean, deeply. And I would tease my mom. I was like, I First lady of the United States. And you still, you know, light up like a Christmas tree when Craig walks in. Right. It's like, what more do I have to do?
- [26:00]
Emma Grede
What are you gonna do? Moms and sons, you know, it's.
- [26:02]
Michelle Obama
It's true. For me, I was like, hey, lady, you're living in the White House.
- [26:07]
Emma Grede
Whatever.
- [26:07]
Michelle Obama
You. What else? What? I can't.
- [26:09]
Emma Grede
I can't top that. My son is here.
- [26:10]
Michelle Obama
That's right.
- [26:11]
Craig Robinson
It's hard being the favorite.
- [26:12]
Emma Grede
What are you gonna do?
- [26:13]
Craig Robinson
It's hard.
- [26:14]
Michelle Obama
But the thing is, is, like, I agree. He's my favorite. He's a lot of people's favorites. And, you know, one of the memories is just our time in Princeton, because we were at Princeton together. You were two years. Yeah, we overlapped for two years.
- [26:30]
Emma Grede
Oh, proud was your family.
- [26:32]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Yeah. But my brother was big man on campus. Right. Because he was Division 1 starter on the basketball team, All Ivy. So he was big man on campus. And we weren't raised to be close. Close like. Like up under each other. I mean, our mother was like, you have your life, he has yours. Because he was the kind of person that would stop what he was doing to make sure I was okay. So my mother was like, you cannot worry about your little sister. You need to get on with your life. So we were together, but apart. But the times that we were together, he would take me to alumni booster dinners, which were these free dinners at rich people's houses, and he would just bring along his little sister.
- [27:15]
Emma Grede
That is really big. I never wanted to take my little sisters anywhere. My mom would be like, take your sister. I'd be like, oh, come on.
- [27:22]
Craig Robinson
And my mom was the opposite. I was like, I gotta bring her with dolls.
- [27:26]
Emma Grede
She's like, no, leave her but then.
- [27:27]
Michelle Obama
He would bring me, and, you know, I could just bask in his glow. But my brother is a deeply kind, honest person who I can count on for anything at the drop of the hat. And in those White House years, just knowing that they would show up when we just needed some grounding in family, just regular old, where the girls needed regular old family, you know, not special people looking at them differently. Just they needed to be reminded of who they were, where they came from. And having my brother and his family come around during those times meant the world to me. And Barack, no doubt.
- [28:10]
Emma Grede
It seems to me that your family are such a huge influence in your lives and the people that you've grown into being. And I just wonder if you've been able to, like, over the years and in hindsight, pinpoint, like, what is the framework that you were given, the tools that you were given that have made you both so incredibly successful, but also just, like, have such an incredible family. Daniel.
- [28:35]
Craig Robinson
I would start with the fact that our parents loved us unconditionally. That was.
- [28:40]
Emma Grede
You always felt that as a kid. Always felt even if you do something really bad, you, like, knew it.
- [28:45]
Craig Robinson
Well, I never did anything bad.
- [28:47]
Emma Grede
You didn't.
- [28:48]
Michelle Obama
Oh, he stole gum off the teacher's desk.
- [28:49]
Craig Robinson
I stole gum off the teacher's desk once. And that was. That was the worst thing I've done. But I.
- [28:55]
Emma Grede
You really are kids.
- [28:58]
Craig Robinson
My parents made us. Well, I did stuff to Mish every now and then, but our parents would just be evil. Even through all of that, our parents just absolutely loved us. And not only did they love us, but we felt the love, but they always showed it, and that was number one. And then when you think about our dad, who was disabled with Ms. From the time we could remember, he walked with a limp that got progressively worse. He got up and went to work every day. He was such a hard worker, and I think that drove us to be hard workers. So you're loved, and you have this great example of hard work. And then, to use a term that wasn't around back then, our parents were really emotionally intelligent.
- [29:52]
Michelle Obama
Wow.
- [29:53]
Craig Robinson
And I think they imprinted that on us. And at least, certainly I can see it in Mish all the time when she's dealing with people, dealing with the public.
- [30:06]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [30:08]
Craig Robinson
And I feel it, you know, in coaching. And I feel it. I felt it in leadership positions. And those three things are the things that I think about when you ask, what is it about our family?
- [30:20]
Michelle Obama
You know, it's interesting because we didn't talk about that. And I'M listening to you. And I actually jotted down sort of, well, what are my principles? And just listening to him, I wrote down, do what you're passionate about. Do the best that you can, Be as prepared as you can, and operate with empathy.
- [30:41]
Emma Grede
I'm so happy that you mentioned that, because I have been thinking, you know, I'm, like, in this sort of interesting third chapter of my life and career, and I've been thinking a lot about, well, what do you want to do and what do you put out there? And for me, everything starts from, like, these foundational principles. And my team, because I talk about the principles all the time, they were like, what are your principles? And I told them, like, you have to do an episode on that. So I did, like, my first solo episode. Very scared, like, channeling my inner. Like, Mel Robbins.
- [31:09]
Craig Robinson
And you're just talking with no one to talk to.
- [31:11]
Emma Grede
Just with no one to talk to.
- [31:14]
Michelle Obama
Cause my studio, I would do that.
- [31:17]
Emma Grede
It's really scary. You really test yourself. But then I realized I can talk for a long time. And they were like, all right, you're done. Cut. Get her out of here. But it was interesting because it really made me break down, like, what makes me me and what do I care about? And that's why I wanted to ask you those things, because I think we all find you and your family so unbelievably fascinating. And when you see the dynamic between you two, it's so clear that there's just some, like, foundational stuff there. There's just stuff that you have that must have come from your parents, that must have come from your upbringing. And I love the fact that you talk about emotional intelligence, because that. That wasn't a bedrock of my upbringing. I had to learn that and learn it the hard way. But I imagine as parents, that's something that you are both acutely aware of and you've tried to give to your kids as. As a foundational principle.
- [32:06]
Michelle Obama
Absolutely. I mean, we spend more time talking about how you treat other people. I mean, I tried to make it a point just as a parenting principle, not to talk about school and grades with the kids at the table, because when you have an older one and one coming up, you don't know who the younger one is gonna be.
- [32:28]
Emma Grede
You're, like, creating a dynamic almost.
- [32:30]
Michelle Obama
You're creating the dynamic. And first daughter, brilliant, precocious. And so is the second one. But I was very careful to not sort of overdo. Oh, you got an A. Oh, this happened. Oh, you achieved these things because I'm Thinking emotionally, this one isn't even coming up yet. And what if that's not who she is or who she wants to be? And if she sees us falling all over the first one for, you know, things, what does that tell her?
- [33:04]
Emma Grede
Yeah. And how does it change the way she behaves without you even knowing? Because she wants to please you.
- [33:10]
Michelle Obama
So we spent more time talking about what happened at school, friendships. How did you feel? Because I felt like that was more neutral territory. You know, let's talk through problems, you know, okay, great. You're doing well at school. That's for you. Good for you. But it's not, you know, it's. It's not the basis of our dynamic here. So I.
- [33:32]
Emma Grede
What did you care about? Like, when you think about, like, what are the things that you were like? But. But this is a must do in this house.
- [33:38]
Michelle Obama
Kindness, self possession. I wanted my say more.
- [33:44]
Emma Grede
Michelle. I love that.
- [33:44]
Michelle Obama
I wanted my kids to be okay with speaking up for themselves, but not by putting somebody else down. I wanted my girls to know how to fight for themselves. I wanted them to know how to advocate for themselves, how to communicate, how.
- [34:06]
Emma Grede
To teach, how to deal and teach that.
- [34:09]
Michelle Obama
Oh, my gosh. I think for us, it's a lot of talking to your kids. I mean, when we talk about the kitchen table, part of imo, and we sit around a table is that we spent our time. Our house was so small. Everything happened in the kitchen table.
- [34:26]
Emma Grede
It was condensed.
- [34:28]
Michelle Obama
That was the place. And everybody in our family, extended family, they came and we sat around the table and we talked about everything. We heard about our uncle's exploits at work. He was a detective, and he would tell long stories about cases he was on. And everybody was a storyteller, and everybody was sort of putting their lives and their issues on the table. And the kids were allowed to be there.
- [34:53]
Emma Grede
Exactly. You had a lot of exposure to.
- [34:55]
Michelle Obama
Witness, and no one was shushed. Like, if you had. If you had a question and you had to be polite about it, but you were a part of the conversation. And our parents, more so than anyone in our family, encourage kids to do that. And so I wanted. I think we both, in our households wanted to create that same dynamic of voice, Right. Because that's where you practice empathy. You test out theories. You come home, something happened at school and we're going to talk about it.
- [35:26]
Emma Grede
Right? Because we're talkers. That's what we do.
- [35:28]
Michelle Obama
We're not going to solve it for you, but we're going to talk it through. And we want to hear well, what would you have done and why did you do that? What did you think about that? I mean, practicing almost scenarios, in a way, real life and imaginary scenarios. And it's the conversation and the patience and something that we lose when everybody these days separates into their own rooms and their own phones and their own devices and their own devices, or when.
- [35:56]
Emma Grede
Parents don't share things with their kids. You know, I often hear, especially because I've moved to la, it's like, that's not a conversation for a kid, you know, And I was brought up again, much like you just hearing everything, the good, bad, the slightly inappropriate.
- [36:10]
Michelle Obama
If something happened at a family dinner, somebody had an argument or somebody said something crazy, maybe we wouldn't talk about it then, but in the car ride home, we'd be like, well, you were talking about it. Can you tell us about what aunt Such and such said? Can you help us understand what's going on? So I think helping, giving kids credit for understanding context, you know, not dumbing things down, you know, not having conversations that are too abundant, inappropriate, but taking children's curiosity not as disrespect, but as an opportunity to teach.
- [36:47]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [36:47]
Michelle Obama
You know, my mother, for example, she used to tell the story about Craig, you know, when he was a baby, that when he was learning how to do some things, he would get on the couch and he wanted to get off on his own. And instead of stopping him from doing it, she said, I took the time to show him as early as two that you could turn around, scoot yourself down, and get off the couch by yourself. So instead of telling him, don't get off the couch, you're too young, or be careful, she was like, let me teach him. And she always talked about how smart kids were, how smart babies were. She was aware she was an early childhood development protege before it was a thing. She was very into how kids, children, babies thought. And she understood that they were smart and that they had ideas very early on. That's all emotional intelligence.
- [37:46]
Emma Grede
Yes. Yes.
- [37:47]
Michelle Obama
And I think like that. I think like that about my kids. I think about that about my staff and my people. My whole question in life is, why are you doing what you're doing? What made you say that? Before I react, I think, what's your context?
- [38:03]
Emma Grede
Do you think that that is a good conversation that people should have with themselves? Cause I feel like it's one that I'm having constantly with myself right now. Like, why am I doing what I'm doing and what is the point of all of this? And so going Back to your principles. It feels like you guys were raised to question yourselves, to have the emotional intelligence to go inside yourselves and figure it out.
- [38:28]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
- [38:29]
Craig Robinson
Our mom was really good about saying, you tell me why you want to do something. It was so. It was. You had some agency in anything you wanted to do. So if I wanted to go over to a girl's house, and we've talked about this before, she wouldn't say no. She would say, well, what do you think? And you imagine how much pressure that puts on you.
- [38:59]
Emma Grede
Especially my mom would take the same.
- [39:01]
Michelle Obama
Thing when you know, what do you think is the best? And it's like, I just want you to tell me.
- [39:04]
Craig Robinson
Yeah, please just tell me the right answer. Cause I don't want to mess this up. And that kind of agency gives you confidence to make good decisions, no matter what the situation. And another point that Mish mentioned, she mentioned empathy. My mom was the type when I would. She would come to our school and help out early, before people really did that. She was part of the room. Before there were room parents, before there were room parents. She would just come. She knew how hard a teacher's job was, and she'd come and offer some help. And she came to my class once, and I got my work done, and I was walking around talking to other kids, and my mom said, what are you doing? And I said, I'm done with my work. She said, well, why don't you help somebody else who needs help? And it never had crossed my mind to do that.
- [39:59]
Emma Grede
Well, you're a kid. I mean.
- [40:00]
Craig Robinson
Cause I'm a kid.
- [40:01]
Emma Grede
You're a kid.
- [40:01]
Craig Robinson
And I think being a good leader, you have to have empathy for the people you lead, because their upbringings aren't the same as yours, and their experiences aren't the same as yours. But if you can contextualize why they're doing something to Michelle's point, you'll be a better leader.
- [40:21]
Emma Grede
No doubt. It's such a. It's. It's absolutely true. I mean, I feel like I'm in constant conversation thinking about that all the time. Like, what. What is happening for this person that. That's the reaction. How can I see it from their point of view? And it's. And again, it comes from a place of empathy. You have to be able to see it from their point of view.
- [40:43]
Michelle Obama
And the questioning that you were mentioning, the constant questioning. Yes. That's what we were raised to do, to always ask our own why. So when I was my first job out of law school, of course, after graduating Harvard, as I wrote about. I did what all Harvard grads did. I started working at a big corporate firm, making as much money as I could.
- [41:06]
Emma Grede
You were just on a trajectory.
- [41:07]
Michelle Obama
I was on a trajectory. I was checking a box, not questioning because I was on my path.
- [41:13]
Emma Grede
Well, and also because it's like, you just come out of Harvard. You're like, I took that too, and I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna take this.
- [41:17]
Michelle Obama
I had a ton of debt.
- [41:18]
Emma Grede
Oh, well, yes. You needed the money.
- [41:20]
Michelle Obama
I needed the money. But I talked about one of the turning points. Early turning points in my life was when I lost my father. And then the same year, I lost one of my best friends to lymphoma. First time I had lost people close to me in.
- [41:37]
Emma Grede
And you're 27 at this point?
- [41:38]
Michelle Obama
26.
- [41:40]
Emma Grede
Young.
- [41:40]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, young. And I had to look at myself and say, is this who I am? I mean, did I do all of this to just work in this firm? And there's nothing wrong with working in a firm, But I hadn't questioned myself. I realized that I needed to figure out my why am I here for the right reason? And if I'm not, what else can I be doing? And if I tried anything else on before choosing this, and I think it's that. That helped get me into a career of service.
- [42:17]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [42:17]
Michelle Obama
You know, and I don't. I probably wouldn't have done it. My parents weren't questioning me.
- [42:23]
Emma Grede
They supported every question. You going to the top law firm.
- [42:26]
Michelle Obama
Exactly.
- [42:26]
Emma Grede
Everyone's like, you've done it. You made it.
- [42:29]
Michelle Obama
And they didn't know what else you could be. I mean, we had already kind of surpassed them in terms of education and experience. Right. So they. But they were still mentoring us through this act of showing us how to continue to dig inside and figure out our why. And I am doing that every day.
- [42:48]
Emma Grede
That was my next question. Do you still do that? Do you feel like it happens with, like, frequency in your life?
- [42:53]
Michelle Obama
I'm at another why point now. I mean, you know, that's why I tell people you never stop becoming. You know, here I am. I am 61. Am I 61?
- [43:03]
Craig Robinson
You're 61.
- [43:04]
Michelle Obama
Thank you. You know, and sort of like, how old am I? 61 years old. Have I done enough? Is. Is. Is it time to stop?
- [43:14]
Emma Grede
You ask yourself that. What about done enough?
- [43:16]
Michelle Obama
Oh, yeah, I'm. I'm in therapy, you know, trying to figure out why. Do I keep asking myself that? But I. I'm 61, but I don't know.
- [43:24]
Emma Grede
What are they why do you keep asking yourself that?
- [43:28]
Michelle Obama
I, I haven't.
- [43:30]
Craig Robinson
She's driven.
- [43:31]
Michelle Obama
I. There's a, there's a drive and there's a sense of responsibility. There's probably a bit of survivor's remorse, you know, there's also just a truth that there's so much to be done, you know, that it's hard for me to look at problems and not figure out what can I do to solve it.
- [43:50]
Emma Grede
Is that a burden for you?
- [43:51]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, it is.
- [43:52]
Emma Grede
Do you have the same. Do you have the same feeling?
- [43:55]
Craig Robinson
So I don't. And the only reason I don't have it is cause I'm still raised. My wife Kelly and I are still raising a 15 year old and a 13 year old.
- [44:03]
Emma Grede
Because you have four kids, correctly, grownups, and then two that are in house.
- [44:07]
Craig Robinson
20 and 29 and then 15 and 13. So going into sophomore year and going into the eighth grade, because, you know.
- [44:14]
Emma Grede
I have four too.
- [44:14]
Craig Robinson
I know you have.
- [44:15]
Emma Grede
Four's a lot of kids, isn't it?
- [44:16]
Michelle Obama
It's a lot of, let's have a.
- [44:17]
Emma Grede
Sympathy thing right now.
- [44:19]
Craig Robinson
We went two and two. So what you're doing is actually harder.
- [44:22]
Emma Grede
You smush them all together.
- [44:24]
Craig Robinson
You smush them all together.
- [44:27]
Emma Grede
You still have some of the stuff, you still, your head, but you haven't.
- [44:31]
Michelle Obama
Thought about your why. You know, after you're not thinking about.
- [44:36]
Craig Robinson
And running two companies on the board of the foundation, you got why, why.
- [44:43]
Michelle Obama
Why am I doing this is the question, Emma. Are you driven?
- [44:50]
Emma Grede
You know, I had good role models. Let me tell you what you did. Like, you fired up every woman on the planet. And I think that that's the truth because again, living in England, you know, there were just women. And I've spoken about this so many times. It's not just because you're here and I want to kiss some ass, but it's the truth. You know, like Oprah for me was like the one you'd come home and I would run home from school because Oprah came on at 3:45. And so I would get my fix and I would like, you know, I learned about gratitude and I learned about like the, you know, the, the good stuff that I wasn't seeing around me, like community, empathy. How do you take care of people? What does mindfulness mean? So I learned all this stuff and throughout my life I feel like people have appeared right to kind of show me the way. And, you know, for so many of us, we saw you and we were like, wow, she is a lawyer and she's so accomplished and now she's gonna take on this whole, like, situation around what everybody's eating, and then she's gonna be out here speaking and look at her arms and look at her outfit, and she's so.
- [45:51]
Michelle Obama
And it was like all the things.
- [45:52]
Emma Grede
And so in my head, I was like, well, of course I can. And I think that that's so important because I truly believe you can't be what you don't see. And one of my biggest reasons for wanting to so bad be on the board of the Obama Foundation, I made no secret of it. I told everybody else that. What about me? I can pull myself up for that. But, you know, for me, again, it's about this idea of what are you putting out there and how many people can it impact. And I feel like in both of your careers, you haven't just settled with making something great for yourselves and making something great for your families, but you've got had these kind of, like, huge tentacles, and that is really admirable. And I think at, you know, the ripe age of 42 right now, you start to think about a lot of things beyond yourself and beyond your own family. And that's why, for me, it's so fascinating that at this point in your life, you two have chosen to come together and share, share all of this golden stuff because it's what the world needs. Like, we need to hear that. I need to understand your principles. I want to know, like, how I should raise my kids. I want to know, like, what you did wrong. Quite honestly, I want. I want all of it, like, all the information. So we are, like, eating it up right now, taking notes literally all the time. And I feel like your whole family and the way that you guys are is just a big, beautiful lesson for all of us. Like, we should be so lucky. I really feel like that.
- [47:16]
Michelle Obama
And it still goes back to what our mom said, because he quotes it a lot. We are not special. There are millions of Michelle and Craigs out there. You know this too. We are not rare. It's just opportunity, luck. We happen to have two good parents. You know, our souls are the same, our intellect is the same. But when you lock up on two good parents, lock up, you know, it's a big deal. So, yeah, I feel like I have a responsibility to the millions of other Craigs and Michelles that are coming up that may not get that lucky piece. And for kids like us, you know, you don't get it all. You miss a piece. And it's. The trajectory is intense. There's no room for Error for kids like us. And it really makes me emotional, you know, because I think of one step away and, you know, this guy could be seen as a criminal, as somebody who's dangerous. One step away. I could have been, you know, somebody who could have never gotten into college with the same mind, the same possibility, the same heart, the same soul. So I do feel a responsibility to cast a broad net and to be the light for somebody, you know, some kid like me, you know, who didn't have the right mom, didn't have the right mix. Things just didn't work out perfectly for us, you know? And this is what I want this country to understand. It's like life is unfair for a lot of kids. There are no safety nets. For many of us, we provide that safety net for each other through our taxes, through our giving, through our empathy, through our openness, especially when you have enough, when you've been blessed with plenty. Our responsibility, our principles should be. How do we spread that? Because guess what? I've learned. There's enough for me to have a lot because I've had many careers, I've made money. I don't believe in not making money.
- [49:36]
Emma Grede
Thank you. But I need to say that part too. Right. Because I don't think it's either or.
- [49:40]
Michelle Obama
It's either or. You can do both. You know, you can make a lot of money. You can pay your fair share of taxes. There can be a good social safety net. You can have good insurance, and everybody can have good insurance. You know, we can all. There's plenty on this planet to go around, and it's not a zero sum game. And so that's what keeps driving me is like, to whom much is given, much is expected. And we're a great country where many of us have been given a lot. And there are a lot of people within our own midst who don't have enough. And it's not because I'm special and they're not. It's not because I worked harder and deserved it more and they didn't. Because I know who those people are. And they are not all the same color as me. They come from all walks of life. We can't make assumptions about who people are and what they can do based on the color of their skin. There are well deserving poor people in Appalachia, and there are well deserving poor people on the south side of Chicago. And all of them are not getting a fair shake. They don't have good enough schools. They don't get healthcare. And I feel it is our responsibility not just to have principles for our own individual selves, but have principles that are going to impact a broader squath of people. Because it makes us all better.
- [51:05]
Emma Grede
Oh yes, it really does.
- [51:07]
Michelle Obama
That's the thing that keeps me pushing forward and feeling like, have I done enough?
- [51:17]
Emma Grede
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- [55:12]
Michelle Obama
Well, one of the principles that I talk about in the light is start small. The power in small change is really real. And sometimes we get ahead of ourselves because we think it has to be big. And look, not all of us will ever have the platform to have big impact. And that's okay because big impact is limited. Look, I lived with the president of the United States of America and there were so many things he couldn't get done because there are limits on that power. And as we are learning, it's good to have some limits on power. You know, it's good to have a democracy with checks and balances. There's a reason for that. But I also think that like a teacher, being a good teacher, that's some power. Being a good teacher, parent to the children you bring into this planet small right there in your lap, right there in your house. It's like don't. You don't have to do, you don't have to do anything else but raise the kids you brought into the world. That doesn't mean you have to be rich. That means you have to be present and proper. That means you have to have some theories of your why. You know, it's not just why do I want to be important. It's like, why do I want to be a mother? Why did I bring this kid here? And now that they're here, what's my responsibility? I would just say to people, focus right in your lap first. Take care of the thing that you have control and power over. And sometimes it's as small as yourself. Like, that's like, if you can rethink your. Just be yourself, it may be yourself. Wonder, well, why are you angry? Why don't you want to give? Why are you mad? What are you mad about? Where's that coming from? So I just encourage people, start with what you can control. Don't try to change your community. Do you have a little cousin who's looking up to you? Do you have a neighborhood kid down the street from you who looks up to you? We all have someone looking up to us and living a life where we're a role model to those people in small ways. Being good, going to work, being responsible, it doesn't mean you have to be an NBA star, Doesn't mean you have to be Steph Curry. You don't have to be Michelle Obama to make change. You know, it starts right here. And I would encourage people, start small, Start where you are, Start right where you are. But just be really committed to it and passionate about it. Right. Don't half ass it. Right.
- [57:50]
Emma Grede
That's a really important thing.
- [57:51]
Michelle Obama
If you're gonna mentor a kid, do.
- [57:53]
Emma Grede
Something small and do it for real.
- [57:54]
Michelle Obama
For real, then do it for real, for real. If you're gonna be in somebody's kid's life, then be there. You know, you don't have to be perfect in it. You don' I'd be there every day. But when you say you're gonna do something for a kid, then do it.
- [58:06]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [58:06]
Michelle Obama
And if you can't do it, then don't say you can. That's another thing we learned from our parents. They didn't. They couldn't give us much, but if they told us they were gonna do something or be somewhere, they did it. You know, they didn't.
- [58:19]
Emma Grede
That's the same where I come from. If you're from East London, like, your word is king is your bond.
- [58:24]
Michelle Obama
Your word is your bond.
- [58:25]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [58:26]
Michelle Obama
You know, and if you can't do it, then say you can't. Honesty in your word. Our father couldn't give us much, but he showed up whenever he said he was. He was consistent. So I picked a man like my father. Barack Obama is a consistent man in my life and my daughter's life. And when he says he's gonna do something for us, he does it. My brother, consistent man in my life, you know, small things.
- [58:51]
Emma Grede
Small things. Craig, did you have the same type of, like, important people in your life outside the family? I mean, like mentors or somebody that helped you out in that way?
- [59:03]
Craig Robinson
I did. I did. It was my extended family, my dad's younger brothers, who were closer to us in age than he was to my father.
- [59:15]
Michelle Obama
There was a gap in there.
- [59:16]
Craig Robinson
There was a little gap in there when they.
- [59:18]
Emma Grede
I love the young uncles. They were the most fun. Oh, God, they could do so much good stuff for you.
- [59:24]
Craig Robinson
And so this was during the time of high black activism, Black Panthers, that kind of thing. And they allowed me in that world at an early age, you know, 10, 11 years old.
- [59:37]
Emma Grede
Did you have a natural interest anyway?
- [59:40]
Craig Robinson
I had a natural interest in anything they were doing.
- [59:43]
Emma Grede
Okay. So it's more about them than your cause at that point.
- [59:45]
Craig Robinson
That's how I looked up to them. Because one was an athlete, the other was a bookworm. And I wanted to be like both of them. They taught me how to stand, even though my sister doesn't agree. They taught me how to talk to girls, even though I didn't put it into practice until later.
- [60:04]
Michelle Obama
Cause he was too busy playing basketball. He was on the court taking your time.
- [60:08]
Craig Robinson
So it started with them and then it moved on to basketball coaches. I had a couple of really good young basketball coaches. Johnny Gage, who I thought was older than I was, ended up being closer to me in age. We were like 12 and 11 and 12. And he was 19. But he held us accountable. He was fair and he cared about us.
- [60:35]
Emma Grede
Do you remember any of the advice that they gave you?
- [60:39]
Craig Robinson
My uncles said, whenever you are standing on the street, never stand with your feet together. Always stand with one foot pointing forward and the other other foot pointing at 10 o' clock.
- [60:54]
Emma Grede
Why is this? Explain this to me. Immediately made stuff up.
- [60:58]
Craig Robinson
No, they didn't. No. Listen, is this.
- [61:00]
Emma Grede
Was someone coming to push you? Like, is this an attack situation?
- [61:03]
Craig Robinson
This wasn't. This turns out to be really true. Because you do public speaking, right?
- [61:08]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [61:08]
Craig Robinson
When you have to stand somewhere for a long time, if you stand with both of your legs under you, you can't stand as long as you can if you stand at 12 o' clock and 10 o' clock. They were right.
- [61:22]
Emma Grede
Is he.
- [61:23]
Michelle Obama
Is he's true about the advice.
- [61:26]
Emma Grede
Is that an elegance?
- [61:27]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
- [61:27]
Emma Grede
That's a man thing. That is not a God. We cannot take that.
- [61:31]
Craig Robinson
Maybe it could be a man thing.
- [61:33]
Michelle Obama
They didn't let me in the room for that lesson.
- [61:36]
Craig Robinson
That was something that stuck out in my mind for a long time. And then, of course, coaches giving you advice about how to play. And then other people outside of my dad, so it's mostly uncles.
- [61:53]
Michelle Obama
It's a lot of man advice stuff.
- [61:54]
Emma Grede
Yeah, but this is. I mean, the men need different advice. Ain't it the truth?
- [61:59]
Craig Robinson
And we were just in a discussion about how we didn't get any inner advice as men back then.
- [62:05]
Emma Grede
Cause, you know, it wasn't the thing.
- [62:07]
Craig Robinson
It wasn't a thing.
- [62:08]
Emma Grede
They were teaching you how to stand.
- [62:09]
Craig Robinson
You know what they were doing. They were teaching you how. They were teaching you how to be a leader. That's what I mean.
- [62:17]
Michelle Obama
Under a male. And under a male paradigm, of course.
- [62:21]
Emma Grede
Well, and it is so different, isn't it? I mean, you have to do things.
- [62:25]
Craig Robinson
Very differently as women leaders back then. I mean, she's 61, I'm 63. Back then, the only female leaders you saw were in the classroom.
- [62:35]
Emma Grede
Is that true?
- [62:36]
Craig Robinson
Just think about it. It was very few female police officers, firefighters, very few women in leadership positions. And they had to be in the church, at the choir. You saw people in those six categories in the education field, but you never saw them in. You know, this is why we're in.
- [62:58]
Michelle Obama
The mess we're in.
- [62:59]
Craig Robinson
My dad would take me to his job and there were no women there. But, you know, there were a lot of people outside of my parents who sort of showed me the way.
- [63:13]
Emma Grede
Show you the way, Michelle, I wanted to switch gears a bit because I was looking back at your career and all of the chapters that you've had, and I wondered if you ever thought about where you might be now had public life not intervened?
- [63:28]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, I mean, I probably. And public life and Barack Obama hadn't intervened. Right. Because I was on my box checking path. Just like because when you grow up in a working class family, we didn't have, I didn't have parents who could show me what was possible. You know, my mom used to joke after I was 10, she was like, well, you're on your own, kid. So meeting Barack was someone outside of the boxes, box checking paradigm. Right. He had been a community organizer before he went to law school. He had taken a gap year, he had worked in bank. He had done so much and he wasn't interested in the typical trajectory. So when I was also starting to ask this, why in my career, it was around the time that I met him. And he opened up a whole world of possibility of how to think about. So, yeah, if I had met him.
- [64:28]
Emma Grede
Do you think he changed the way you thought about what you were gonna do?
- [64:31]
Michelle Obama
He gave me courage to take the step away. I, I think, how did he do that? You know, because we had started dating and there was also the question of how do I afford to take the step away?
- [64:46]
Emma Grede
Right, because you're making good money.
- [64:48]
Michelle Obama
And I still had debt. I mean, our combined, our student loan debt was more than our first mortgage. After we got married, and because we didn't stay on the monetary path, we both went into public service. We didn't pay off our debt until Barack wrote Dreams for my father and became a bestseller. Right. We would, you know, this is the massive amount of student loan debt that we get. That is, we were in our late 30s, 40s. Right. Because we got off the money making path and I worked in the city and every job I took, I made less money, but I was more and more fulfilled. So I think had I not met him and his view was, we'll figure this out together, we got each other's backs. I think that was the first step into Let me give this a try. And it was.
- [65:41]
Emma Grede
You disagree?
- [65:42]
Michelle Obama
What do you mean?
- [65:42]
Emma Grede
Please tell us.
- [65:42]
Craig Robinson
I, I love my brother in law. She would have made that move eventually herself.
- [65:49]
Emma Grede
You think so?
- [65:49]
Craig Robinson
If we all have that thought process, she would have developed the courage to.
- [65:54]
Michelle Obama
Make that on her own. Well, that's perhaps, but the question was, where would I be? I don't know. I mean, maybe I would have taken the leap, but if I couldn't afford to. Right. If I found myself still struggling to pay my bills, I might have gone back.
- [66:11]
Emma Grede
I might have gone back.
- [66:13]
Michelle Obama
I might have gone back because I might have been like, you know what? I'm struggling with this lower salary. I wouldn't have been as happy.
- [66:22]
Emma Grede
Yes, no doubt.
- [66:23]
Michelle Obama
I wouldn't have been as fulfilled. I wouldn't have felt this level of purpose. I mean, with every job I took, I was going deeper into my own community, my own city, learning it in ways that I never knew existed. I mean, I feel like I know Chicago inside and out. Because through working for the city, city in department of planning and development, working with the mayor, running a nonprofit organization, I have literally set foot in every community in the Chicagoland area. And most people don't do that. Most people live in their communities. They're born and raised. If you born and raised on south side, you don't know what the north side is. You never go to the west side. The world of the city opened up to me. And so it made it easy then to try new things. It prepared me to be the first lady of the United States. Because after doing all this stuff outside of law, being the first lady of the United States was easy in comparison. You know, I had started nonprofit organizations. I had worked in city government before, where I had to start stuff from scratch and work in on projects that I knew nothing about and had to learn on the spot, you know, learning how to build teams and work with teams. So by the time I got to become the first lady, it was like another startup nonprofit, you know, where I knew how to define a mission and a vision and how to develop a strategy and build a team and to execute against a set of goals. I mean, that's how I approached my eight years. It was like, it's a proper business. It's a business and we are going to get things done. We are going to understand our mission. We're like a small subsidiary within this big, you know, administration that is run by my husband. So I had to think in terms of strategies and initiatives that would complement what he was doing and not compete with what he was doing. And I had to do it with basically no staff because the first lady doesn't have a budget. Well, I was used to that. I worked in nonprofits, you know, where you had to raise money. Yeah.
- [68:27]
Emma Grede
You gotta make it work.
- [68:28]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. To figure out how to, you know, cross over into other agencies and use their resources to get things done in healthy eating. I mean, it was an entrepreneurial and very familiar, no doubt, endeavor.
- [68:43]
Emma Grede
Were you able to do forward planning? Like, could you look beyond the eight years and say, okay, here's what's gonna happen the minute I'm out of office?
- [68:50]
Michelle Obama
Well, that's where the initiatives came in.
- [68:53]
Emma Grede
Right.
- [68:54]
Michelle Obama
So with let's Move, for example, we established a separate nonprofit organization, the Partnership for a Healthier America. Knowing that there had to be a place for this work to go once we were out of the White House.
- [69:09]
Emma Grede
Because it's that important.
- [69:10]
Michelle Obama
It's that important. And it wasn't going to. It wasn't going to solve it in eight years. And as we saw, once I got out of office and there wasn't a push, you know, food companies started reneging on what they were doing and things start to roll back to unravel. Exactly. The Partnership for Healthier America is a separate non profit that exists today. I'm an honorary chair, but I don't run it for our Girls Education initiative. That's where the Girls Opportunity alliance was developed. Because I knew that was gonna be work that would continue to happen in a nonprofit way. So my point being is that everything had to have a future when we started it, because it didn't feel to me like it made sense to start an initiative on issues that couldn't be solved in one or two terms, which is, no, there's nothing that you can work on. Absolutely not on the planet that's gonna be. Which a lot of people don't understand. That's gonna be resolved in a presidential term or two. Change happens over generations. Right. And that's whether we like it. Whether we like it or not.
- [70:20]
Emma Grede
Whether we like it or not.
- [70:21]
Michelle Obama
You make a forward movement and then a step backward and then three steps forward and then 10 steps backwards, and you're still moving forward. Right. But it doesn't happen all under one. One president or one first lady, you know, so all my initiatives were like, yeah, we're gonna get this started, you know, but it's gotta be finished on the outside. You've gotta pass the baton where leadership comes in. Right. Why do we have leadership? We need people we can pass the baton to. We can't keep doing this. You know, we get to an age where our voices aren't even connected with what's going on. I'm 61.
- [70:56]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [70:57]
Michelle Obama
I'm not 40 something. And it's okay that I don't know everything or don't understand. I pass the baton.
- [71:02]
Emma Grede
Pass it. Pass it over.
- [71:04]
Michelle Obama
Emma, let's go.
- [71:05]
Emma Grede
It's your turn.
- [71:07]
Michelle Obama
You run, girl.
- [71:07]
Emma Grede
I'm like, let me go. Let me. Adam.
- [71:10]
Michelle Obama
You know, and so we. We don't want to compete with young leaders.
- [71:14]
Emma Grede
No.
- [71:14]
Michelle Obama
We want to move.
- [71:15]
Emma Grede
You want to enable them. Absolutely.
- [71:16]
Michelle Obama
I want to get out of the way.
- [71:18]
Emma Grede
No, but you built this incredible foundation for so many people to be able to do this important work. Craig, I wanted to ask you. I wonder if there was ever a time given. Given Michelle's public prominence and what happened because she's still your sister. As all this is going on, was there ever a time that it impacted you personally or professionally? And just, you know, because I'm somebody who works with her husband and I've worked with my other family members in the past. Did you ever stir feelings of envy or jealousy? Did you ever have any of that?
- [71:51]
Craig Robinson
No. I thought you were going somewhere else with this question.
- [71:53]
Emma Grede
No one answer that one, then. No, give it wherever the tea is. I'll take you.
- [72:00]
Craig Robinson
Never a feeling of envy.
- [72:02]
Emma Grede
Okay.
- [72:03]
Craig Robinson
Where I thought you were going with that. Was. Was there ever a time where her Success or their success bled into what I was doing in a negative way. And it was all the time, because half the people didn't like them. Right. Which made them not like me. You know, And I will tell you an example how I knew this. I didn't really pay attention to this until I was on the plane with the athletic director at Colorado, which was another team in our league I had coached at Oregon State, and she said to me, she said, craig, I don't know how you do it. She said, you were in our. And I watched your every move, and every time you stood up to say something to the referees, our whole crowd focused on you. And I was like, yeah, I get it. I get it. It's because of them. But most of the feedback because of them was positive. So I was never. Are you kidding? I was riding the wave. I was proud. And they're such likable people. Right. I felt like. You felt.
- [73:30]
Emma Grede
I felt, like, inspired.
- [73:32]
Craig Robinson
I was inspired. And I knew firsthand that what they were doing was they were trying to do the best for the most people. Not the best for them.
- [73:44]
Emma Grede
No.
- [73:44]
Craig Robinson
For those people, or not the best for our side, but the best for everybody. And that's just admirable. So, no, I never felt envious or jealous or. That's an interesting question. I don't know if anybody's ever asked me that. I don't think anybody's ever.
- [74:02]
Michelle Obama
Well, because a lot of families, you know, with success.
- [74:05]
Craig Robinson
Yeah.
- [74:05]
Emma Grede
I mean, they do. They get envious. They get jealous. You know, one makes it. They have to feed everyone else. It starts to get difficult.
- [74:10]
Craig Robinson
Listen, just saying that maybe that happens in some families, but, you know, we joke all the time. She grew up as Craig Robinson's little sister.
- [74:21]
Emma Grede
Yes. Fan.
- [74:21]
Craig Robinson
And now I'm Michelle Obama's big brother.
- [74:23]
Michelle Obama
It's payback. It's time.
- [74:25]
Emma Grede
It's so true. It's time. We'll be right outside.
- [74:26]
Craig Robinson
It is complete payback. But I got the better of the deal.
- [74:30]
Michelle Obama
Facts.
- [74:31]
Emma Grede
I'm just gonna say. You may have. Michelle, what I wanted to ask you, because I think this is so critical for this specific audience, so many women, to feel such unbelievable pressure at the time in your life when you were in the White House, in those years when you are having to balance raising a young family, you know, being a wife to the leader of the free world, to, you know, your own. You know, your own career ambitions and all your own aspirations as well. And I wonder if there is, like, a critical and honest piece of advice that you can give or that you can share based on your own journey and what you would say to women that are trying to seemingly have it all, do it all live to the fullest.
- [75:19]
Michelle Obama
Well, I've said this a lot. It's impossible to have it all, so stop with that. First of all, you can have it all over a period of time. But this impatience and this feeling of like, I've got to be. I've got to have the exact job at the top of the game and I want to be the best mom to all to the, you know, I want to be there, be at all the stuff. And I want to look my best and be in my best shape and be emotionally in tune. La la la la la. And my marriage has got to be on point. Like it's, it doesn't. You can't do all of that. There are trade offs and it's okay, you know, if we're blessed and we can take care of ourselves emotionally and physically. Life is long and you can have chapters and you don't lose out because you didn't read the whole book in one sitting. Each chapter can be really special. When my kids were little and I was sort of ready to drive in my career, but Barack was a state senator and then he ran for Congress and lost, and then he was a US Senator. He was away more than he was home. I got to a point where I said, I can't be in the highest driving point in my career life. I just can't. So I left running a nonprofit that I enjoyed running, but running a nonprofit is an all consuming. And the nonprofit didn't have a lot of money and I needed flexibility.
- [76:55]
Emma Grede
Did you do it happily or was there resentment there?
- [76:57]
Michelle Obama
There was a little resentment. Resentment. But I was happy because I love my girls and I love the time that I spent with them. And I felt more at peace with that decision because it was the right thing for them and ultimately for me because it gave me balance that I needed at that time. And I use myself as an example. I did that. And it didn't stop my growth. It didn't, you know, I went on after that. I became an associate dean. I was the vice president and head of community outreach for the University of Chicago Hospitals. As the girls grew and I felt more secure, I started realigning myself.
- [77:44]
Emma Grede
People don't realize they can take a little pause. Like, life doesn't really give you the feeling right now that you can just.
- [77:49]
Michelle Obama
Be like, hold, please. That's right.
- [77:51]
Emma Grede
For whatever reason.
- [77:52]
Michelle Obama
And you can, and you don't have to Stop. Like, I didn't stop. I thought about quitting completely. And then I got an opportunity to get a good job that I enjoyed in a flex situation. I negotiated flexibility for myself. I negotiated flexibility first. That wasn't flexibility. It just was less pay. And I was irritated at that because I got half the salary and was still doing a full time job. Full time job. So I learned from that. I was like, never again. I'm too much of a driver to ever get paid less. Right. So the next job, I was like, pay the full salary, but give me carte blanche over my schedule. I will get the job done. But I'm picking up my kids from school, I'm going to the Halloween parade, and I might not be here on Friday, but I'll be here when I need to be here. So pay me. Right. I learned that. Right. So I would just say out there to women, it can come. And if you are choosing to drive, which that's a choice, then don't parent from guilt.
- [78:57]
Emma Grede
Yeah, that's really important parenting advice. I'm so interested in your parenting advice because between the two of you, there are six children. And I think so much about resilience and independence and what we want for our kids. What are those parenting principles that again, looking back, that you go, this was so important that I did this.
- [79:20]
Michelle Obama
This. Yeah. I. I will start with not parenting from guilt.
- [79:25]
Emma Grede
Because they feel it. Your kids feel that.
- [79:27]
Michelle Obama
They feel. If they feel you weak.
- [79:29]
Emma Grede
Yeah, they do.
- [79:30]
Michelle Obama
You know, I always say, kids have nothing to do but watch us. Yes.
- [79:34]
Emma Grede
It's really.
- [79:35]
Michelle Obama
They don't have jobs, they don't have responsibility. They figure they are figuring out. It's like, ooh, she breaks down when I do that.
- [79:42]
Emma Grede
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [79:43]
Michelle Obama
And oh, they play. Ooh, they don't work together on that issue. Let me manipulate that. Right.
- [79:49]
Craig Robinson
I always say, don't let your kids outlast you. They're just kids. So you can. If they have questions, answer them until they have no more questions. Our parents were really good at that. And you don't have to give them sort of the college essay, but give them answers and keep them asking questions.
- [80:10]
Michelle Obama
And just outlast them and outlast them emotionally, too. Don't let your kid tantrum you into captivity. You know, I mean, you gotta, you know, if you're gonna be a busy parent, then you gotta have some backbone. You can't, you can't parent out of guilt. You can't give up on the foundation and the structure they need because you're not providing it every day. But that means you have to be more clear about it. You know, even with the girls in the White House, I mean, I could have felt so bad for them. I mean, they had Secret Service that they didn't a lot. You know, they had to. They spent their childhood surrounded by men with guns. They were always out there in the wild on their own, taking on incoming as little girls. But I couldn't. I was thinking about who I needed them to be when this was over. And it couldn't be some bratty kids who didn't know how to hear no. They lived in a house with a florist and maids and cooks and chefs.
- [81:10]
Emma Grede
Yeah. It's like, not no more.
- [81:11]
Michelle Obama
They could have, you know, they lived in a museum, you know, So I had to be like, who do I want them to be when this is over?
- [81:19]
Emma Grede
But that is great advice, like, thinking about, who do you want your kids to be? And not like, parenting in the moment. Cause I feel like there is so much guilt and there's so much immediacy to how we make decisions now that sometimes you're like, how do I just make this thing better now? As opposed to being like, well, and then we can. What am I trying to.
- [81:35]
Michelle Obama
I. How do I appease them now so that they stop yelling? Right. And the thing I've always thought about is how do I make them empathetic people who understand boundaries and have a work ethic, which means that I had to create no's there. You know, the girls would tell me, sometimes mom would just say no, because. And I would, because it's like, there are no real nos when you live in the White House. Right. So sometimes no would just know. Just. Cause you need to know how to sit. And no, because most of life is gonna be no. So you're gonna practice it. Can you do that? No. Why? They're doing it because you need to know what no is. Now go sit in your room and think about why do you have to have it right? What is your why? Why can't you hear no? And that hurts us. You know, Punishments, you know, I feel like you'll be sticking with punishments.
- [82:31]
Emma Grede
You don't shy away from difficult conversations. Like, are you like that everywhere in your life?
- [82:36]
Michelle Obama
Because I think it's something every friend of mine would say, hell, yeah. And sometimes it's exhausting, right?
- [82:43]
Craig Robinson
Oh, yeah.
- [82:44]
Emma Grede
That's the brother.
- [82:44]
Craig Robinson
Hell, yeah.
- [82:46]
Emma Grede
Having difficult conversations, saying no, not people pleasing. How have you trained yourself to be like that? I mean, it's very clear that that's Just who you are.
- [82:56]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, I. Maybe you can. I just think it's.
- [82:59]
Craig Robinson
I think it's the way she was raised. My mom raised her to be tough and my mom.
- [83:06]
Emma Grede
So how do we make women tougher? Like how do we make ourselves?
- [83:11]
Craig Robinson
I don't know how to make them tougher. Cause I think they're tough already. But.
- [83:16]
Emma Grede
You'Re a. Naturally. That's why. But you know what I mean, right? You know, like some people don't. They don't find it so easy to tell their kids no. They don't find it so easy to say, no, I don't want to do that. That's not gonna. I won't find enjoyment in. You seem to have a very. Like, you are at ease with saying, no, I don't want this. This isn't right for me.
- [83:37]
Michelle Obama
Well, it was practice. It's a muscle that you, you build over time. And I think part of it was like when you are raised as a poor black kid from a working class community, people will set their bar low for you. You know, they will just assume that you can or you don't. And I think there was a part of me that grew up as a fighter. Every time someone assum. Nothing that I demonstrated that I shouldn't have this or couldn't do that. So as I say, I have a I'll show you attitude. Maybe because I'm the youngest sister, I was never treated like that in my household. My brother was always a, you're coming. My father was here, put on these boxing gloves, I think so in my home, I was a can doer. But then when you get out in life and the first people you meet are like, like, I don't think you can read. It's like, why would you assume that I can't read? You know what, What? So that would make me angry, actually. And for some kids, that would make them feel defeated. So I think some of it is temperament. Some of it is that I had this really strong foundation of love, not just from my mother, but my father. And so I came back to a home that said, of course you can. Those people are crazy. Not everybody, not every girl has that. Not every young girl. As we see through our work at the Obama Presidential center, there are millions of girls all over the world who are being told for no good reason that you cheat. And you're not and you'll never. But they're still like me and like you. Because you knew in your head, Emma, when you were four or five or seven, what you were completely capable of.
- [85:20]
Emma Grede
Oh, I know it.
- [85:20]
Michelle Obama
And every girl knows that. And it's the world that turns us into mush. It's the world that makes us doubt ourselves. It's our societies that. That oppress us and make us feel anxious and small. Right? And if you don't have a place that's lifting you up like I did, then you could just become smaller and smaller and smaller, and you doubt yourself and your voice gets minuscule, and you're afraid of your own kids. Societally, we are in a position as women where that can be the norm unless there's something that breaks you out of that. And I think my something was this amazing foundation of yes, you can in my household and a temperament that went along with it. So I think I am inherently a fighter for myself and therefore a fighter for other people. So when I'm talking to my friends or, you know, any women, I'm like.
- [86:22]
Emma Grede
Hey, come on, we can.
- [86:24]
Michelle Obama
Why? Why can't. Why are you. What is it? Why are you crying? What is this about? Let's get it together. Let's get it together, you know? And with my girls, it's like, no, you can't have it. It's okay. You don't need to whine. You'll be okay. And I love you. It's like, I can say no to my girls because guess what?
- [86:43]
Emma Grede
I really love you.
- [86:44]
Michelle Obama
I am always here.
- [86:45]
Emma Grede
Yes.
- [86:46]
Michelle Obama
And I know that. So I don't owe you anything. I am here for you. I love you. You know it. We're friends, you know, so I can't. You can get some bad news from your mom.
- [86:56]
Emma Grede
Get the bad news. You'll be fine.
- [86:57]
Michelle Obama
You'll be fine.
- [86:58]
Emma Grede
What is the. What is the advice that you would wish that more young people had right.
- [87:05]
Michelle Obama
Now that they have everything it takes? The advice for kids is like, if you have a voice in your head that says that there's something special in you, believe it. Believe that voice before it gets taken away from you. Believe the. The truth of who you were brought into this world as. Because we all have that little voice when we're very young. It starts early, and you just want to tell kids it's the other stuff that's wrong, the thing in you that is telling you, you know better, you can do better. You deserve better. Believe that voice over everything else and go to the light. Find the voice that's telling you differently. You know, wherever it's coming from, if you're not getting it at home, go find it at school. Go find it in the coach. Find it in the gym, go to church, seek the light. You know, don't let that darkness drown you out.
- [88:16]
Emma Grede
That is fabulous advice. I've been thinking about it so much because we come from very different but very similar places. And when. When you're from humble beginnings and you do a journey, you have a successful journey, there's an inevitability of having to leave something behind or some people behind, and it can be really, really heavy. And so I wonder if you've. How you guys have navigated because you're both so incredibly successful. How have you navigated leaving people behind on the way or leaving where you're from behind.
- [88:51]
Craig Robinson
That's a good one. I would hope that we haven't left people behind, but I think the folks we've left behind are the folks we needed to leave behind. And we've kept the people who we want around us and who mean a lot to us. We've kept them around. And I think about Misha and Barack every Thanksgiving. They invited our whole family to the White House for Thanksgiving. And so you only got left behind if you were supposed to be left behind.
- [89:34]
Michelle Obama
And there were some instances.
- [89:36]
Emma Grede
There always are. I mean, there always are.
- [89:38]
Michelle Obama
But I have this conversation a lot with. With minority kids going to college in particular, because that can be not understanding the need to leave behind. The people who need to be left behind gets a lot of young people in trouble. Not in trouble in legal ways. It's just we have kids who go to college and they take their student loan money and they're trying to pay the light bill at home. You know, they're grappling with survivor's remorse. And the thing that I remind them is that, you know, you gotta put your oxygen mask on first. And it's a long climb to get to a place where you can really, really help others. And if you stop too soon and try to help too early, you'll all fall, you know, and that's not leaving people behind. That's just being real about when you are really capable of help, anyone at all. And I tell folks we were blessed. At least in our family, we didn't have people. My mother wouldn't accept stuff from us, you know, I mean, it wasn't until after we got out of the White House that we were in a position to buy my mom a safe place to live with a doorman and, you know, which she didn't understand she needed. You know, you're the former first grandmother. You can't just live in the hood, you know, But I say that to young People to say that's how long it took before we really could afford to bring others along financially. Right. So it's just I remind young people, you know, who don't come from a lot that you probably can't afford to help everybody. Your real answer is probably, I can't help you yet because I don't have two feet on the ground. And when you don't come from a lot, a little bit looks like a lot, but it's still a little bit. So I just, you know, I try to remind young people, don't rush to be the savior until you're really, really solid. And that could take much longer than you think. And then when you really get to a place where you're rock solid and you're taking care of your own business, your own debt, and you got. And you have some leftover help then, but you can help with your, in other ways, with your time and other ways. There are other ways other than financial help and support, mentoring, being there now for cousins, you know, we've set up scholarship funds for cousins and friends, kids and so on and so forth. But it. I'm 60. I couldn't have done it at your age. I couldn't have done it in my 30s when some people, when I was a corporate lawyer and people would have started counting my thinking, oh, future checks. And it's like, nah, I got lots of debt that I got to pay off before I can help you with your mortgage. Right. And that's, you know, learning how to say no too. And no.
- [92:51]
Emma Grede
And they'll be in a real nice. No, it's a lesson. Michelle, do you still believe when they go low, we go high?
- [92:59]
Michelle Obama
Yes, yes, I have to.
- [93:07]
Emma Grede
Do you still believe it with the same conviction?
- [93:09]
Michelle Obama
Yes. Yes, yes, Emma, Yes.
- [93:11]
Emma Grede
Okay, good, fine. Because, you know, we're trying out here.
- [93:14]
Michelle Obama
We're trying because guess what? Going high is a long term strategy. And it's the better way to show up in the world. Because when you don't, when you lead with fear and bitterness and exclusion, no one wins, you know, no one feels like they're winning right now. Truly, you know, Amen. So, yeah, I still believe, you know, and it is a strategy. It's not. Doesn't mean you don't emotionally feel low at times.
- [93:47]
Emma Grede
We can feel low.
- [93:48]
Michelle Obama
You can feel it.
- [93:49]
Emma Grede
But we're just gonna go.
- [93:50]
Michelle Obama
But when you show up in the world, show up high. That's.
- [93:55]
Emma Grede
I still believe that we shall continue. Okay, I'm gonna take you to rapid fire.
- [93:59]
Craig Robinson
Alrighty.
- [94:00]
Emma Grede
What is the first Thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
- [94:05]
Michelle Obama
I sadly check my phone.
- [94:09]
Emma Grede
No, you do not.
- [94:09]
Michelle Obama
I have kids.
- [94:10]
Emma Grede
Like, straight away.
- [94:11]
Michelle Obama
I do. I do. Because over the night, it's like, did somebody need something? Is everybody alive? So I do check my phone.
- [94:21]
Emma Grede
Greg, what do you. Jay?
- [94:22]
Craig Robinson
I play a variation of games because I'm on two text chains with people. I do wordle connections, strands, and spelling bee, and I also do four picks in one word.
- [94:39]
Emma Grede
You are keeping that brain fired out here.
- [94:41]
Craig Robinson
Trying to keep my. My little pea brain fired up.
- [94:44]
Emma Grede
Is it. Is it the same before you go to bed? What's the last thing you do?
- [94:48]
Craig Robinson
No, no, no. Oh, the last thing I do before I go to bed is brush my teeth.
- [94:55]
Michelle Obama
He's so specific.
- [94:56]
Emma Grede
No, I love the specificity.
- [94:58]
Craig Robinson
That's this rapid fire. What do you want us to do?
- [94:59]
Emma Grede
Michelle's gonna say something more at night.
- [95:01]
Michelle Obama
Oh, no, she can't be rapid fire.
- [95:03]
Craig Robinson
This is gonna be Tortoise Fire owner.
- [95:06]
Emma Grede
Michelle in a rapid fire.
- [95:08]
Michelle Obama
That's what I do. I kiss my husband good. Good night. Oh.
- [95:14]
Craig Robinson
That is sweet.
- [95:15]
Emma Grede
I love. That's so nice. What are you currently both aspiring for in your business life?
- [95:21]
Michelle Obama
Ooh, I'm aspiring that the initiatives that are business initiatives are successful and add value in a meaningful way. So, you know, we've started PLESI Nutrition, and we want the drinks to be profitable, but we want them to deliver in terms of good quality. Lower sugar.
- [95:49]
Emma Grede
That's your initiative? That's your business with Steph Curry, right?
- [95:52]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah. We have our new hydration drink out, and it's, you know, providing quality without the sugar. Because that's the point. Like, we can do both. We can do well, and we can do good.
- [96:05]
Emma Grede
I am very into that for you.
- [96:07]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
- [96:08]
Emma Grede
Do you care about money when it's those type of things? Sorry, I'm bad at rapid fire.
- [96:11]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, see? See?
- [96:13]
Emma Grede
Sorry. Sorry, Greg. I'm bad at rapid fire.
- [96:15]
Michelle Obama
I still want to be. I'm internally competitive. I want the things I do to be successful. I think Barack is the same way Steph and Aisha are. The same way. We do it. We want to do it well. We want it to be successful. And successful in a business setting is market share. Right? So, yes, it is. That's. Yeah, it matters.
- [96:37]
Emma Grede
It does. It matters.
- [96:39]
Craig Robinson
I'll team up with that one and say, to use one of your words, impactful. I want to be impactful. At this age, this stage of the game, we want to be impactful, and I want to make sure I'm developing the Bench the younger crew who's coming along. I want to leave some folks around who can take care of this.
- [96:57]
Emma Grede
And what are you aspiring for in your personal life?
- [97:02]
Michelle Obama
Rapid, rapid, rapid.
- [97:03]
Craig Robinson
Good health. Good health. And to get these last two boys raised as well as we did the first two, and they can be on.
- [97:16]
Emma Grede
Their own, that's a big aspiration.
- [97:19]
Craig Robinson
I think my wife Kelly and I would agree on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [97:24]
Michelle Obama
Personal for me, it's. I am grasping for deeper mental and physical health, taking care of this vessel that I have.
- [97:39]
Emma Grede
That's a great aspiration. It really is. What is a book that changed your life?
- [97:46]
Craig Robinson
Oh, I know this one. Firestarter by Stephen King. And the reason is I had gotten through elementary school, high school, and college without being a real reader. I read to pass tests, and that book turned me into an actual reader.
- [98:07]
Michelle Obama
Wow.
- [98:07]
Craig Robinson
And it happened in Stockport, England. Manchester, England, because of all the place in your room, the four channels that you had went off at 11 o' clock.
- [98:18]
Michelle Obama
It's true.
- [98:19]
Craig Robinson
So I had to do something and I. And my family bought me a bunch of books and they bought me one of them with Stephen King's Firestarter.
- [98:28]
Emma Grede
That was that.
- [98:29]
Craig Robinson
I was hooked.
- [98:30]
Emma Grede
I mean, good habit to get hooked on.
- [98:31]
Craig Robinson
Yes.
- [98:32]
Emma Grede
Right.
- [98:32]
Craig Robinson
And it's never too late to become a real reader.
- [98:38]
Emma Grede
Yeah. I mean, I'm a lifelong reader. I'm extremely dyslexic. But for whatever reason, I could read big books from a very young age and always did.
- [98:47]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
- [98:48]
Emma Grede
Michelle, for you. Book that changed your life.
- [98:50]
Michelle Obama
Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison. I read it every couple of years. And, you know, she's one of my favorite authors, and that book is deep and complex and the characters stay with you.
- [99:06]
Emma Grede
So what is something that you valued when you were starting out your career that you don't now.
- [99:14]
Michelle Obama
Pleasing others?
- [99:17]
Craig Robinson
I would say not letting money drive my decisions.
- [99:22]
Emma Grede
That's a great one. That is a great one. All right, final question for both of you. What is something that you value now that you didn't back then?
- [99:32]
Michelle Obama
Hmm. The freedom to do whatever I want. I mean, I guess because I didn't have that freedom. So now I have the true, true freedom now that my kids are raised and you're not there yet and my big work is done. Right. I feel like I've earned the right to do what I want, and now I have to figure out what that is. Completely right.
- [100:06]
Emma Grede
Yeah.
- [100:07]
Craig Robinson
I, on the other hand, was able to figure out what I wanted to do early and got a chance to do it. So I value now my free time. Very good. I didn't value it before, but I do now.
- [100:33]
Emma Grede
Spoken like a true father of four.
- [100:34]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, really.
- [100:36]
Emma Grede
You and me both with two still.
- [100:38]
Michelle Obama
One still in middle school. It's like good luck.
- [100:42]
Emma Grede
Good luck to you.
- [100:43]
Michelle Obama
It's fun on this side.
- [100:44]
Craig Robinson
I could be. I could be like mom good on this side.
- [100:48]
Emma Grede
Thank you both you all. I.
- [100:50]
Michelle Obama
This was a lot of fun.
- [100:51]
Craig Robinson
This was great.
- [100:55]
Emma Grede
If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'd be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Leah Reese, Dennis Usher Saludja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Argosy. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks go to Britney Smith, Sydney Ford, My teams at Jonesworks and wne. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose Tim Meecol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G r e D e. That's Aspire A S P I r e with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed Me.