Bethenny Frankel: The Business Model Nobody Else Will Share

Summary

Aspire with Emma Grede — Episode Summary: "Bethenny Frankel: The Business Model Nobody Else Will Share" May 19, 2026 | Host: Emma Grede | Guest: Bethenny Frankel

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Episode Overview

In this candid and insightful conversation, Emma Grede interviews Bethenny Frankel, business mogul, former reality TV star, and the entrepreneur behind the Skinnygirl brand. Renowned for her authenticity, business acumen, and contrarian approach, Bethenny shares the unvarnished truths behind her success, her unique partnership models, and her personal philosophy on business, wealth, and life. The episode delves into deal-making, the value of attention and trust, strategies for brand influence, her approach to entrepreneurship, money, and relationships, and what truly drives her.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bethenny's Current Relevance and Approach

• Emma notes Bethenny’s enduring relevance at 55, praising her continual reinvention and business genius. Bethenny credits her success to executing ideas quickly without over-planning.
  • Quote: “I just execute ideas. There's no strategy. I'm addicted to the idea.” [07:20]
• Her accidental rise as a social influencer stemmed from earnest, unfiltered content, not deliberate strategy.
  • Story: Early TikTok makeup videos were unedited, with mistakes and messy backgrounds, yet they went viral organically. [05:50–07:09]

2. Authenticity and Business Model

• Bethenny values trust and attention above popularity:
  • Quote: “People don't have to like me, but they do trust me, and I do have their attention.” [08:36]
• She intentionally avoids exclusivity in brand partnerships, allowing her to work with multiple brands simultaneously—a model brands favor for her honesty and wide-reaching influence.
  • Quote: “No exclusivity, zero. So you can talk about any other products, anything I want.” [13:40–13:43]
  • This model, rarely seen in celeb-brand partnerships, is foundational to her influence income.

3. Deal Structures and Negotiation Strategies

• Equates brand partnerships to “using every bit of the chicken”—she maximizes value for herself and each brand, adapting structure based on her input and the brand’s needs.
  • Quote: “I really don't waste one bit of the chicken.” [11:50–12:05]
  • Leverages her impact for equity or larger stakes (sometimes as much as 30%), especially when she can deliver significant growth for a brand. [17:01–17:52]
• Bethenny is deeply involved in crafting deals, often innovating new models with her small, in-house team.
  • Team setup: COO + right hand (deal flow and strategy), four-person social media team, no exclusive agency. [19:14–20:11]

4. Philosophy on Timing and Decision-Making

• Bethenny’s intuition dictates when to enter or exit opportunities, often making counterintuitive moves (e.g., leaving Housewives at its peak, selling early).
  • Quote: “Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. I also don't do anything that doesn't feel right.” [11:10]

5. Relationship With Work, Freedom & Money

• Works selectively and values her time and freedom; only works about 20% of a typical week. [23:34–23:59]
• Her business model integrates her personal content, affiliate networks (like "the list"), and multi-brand partnerships. Everything ties back to her authenticity and connection with consumers. [24:21–25:23]
• Is transparent about substantial earnings—$20M+ per year from influence and partnerships—yet doesn't center business decisions around money alone.
  • Quote: “I just want to live. If I don't want to do it, I don't do it. So if I don't want to go to Paris and walk in Fashion Week and talk about products for different brands, I won't go.” [26:46]

6. Views on Ownership, Stability, and Relationships

• Her obsession with equity and ownership is rooted in an unstable upbringing around gambling and money chaos.
  • Quote: “Her relationship with men created my money noise...No financial stability. It was highs and lows. It was racetrack...It was very gambler mentality.” [34:10]
• No desire to pursue "being a billionaire" for its own sake. Values happiness, health, and real connections above accumulating more. [28:12–29:45]
• Cautions against seeing high net-worth men as relationship goals, placing more value on emotional happiness than financial matching. [36:15–37:29]

7. The "Bethenny Brand" and the Future

• Despite encouragement, Bethenny resists launching her own standalone CPG (consumer packaged goods) brands due to the immense personal effort required. Prefers investments, equity deals, and curation (“the list”, “Bethenny Seal of Approval”) that leverage her platform without extra operational burden. [24:26–25:23, 61:26–61:53]
• Quote: “I don't want to be in it if it means I have to be in a place for five days a week. 0.0. No way.” [61:42]

8. Perspectives on Social Media and Influence

• Bethenny’s rare ability to connect with both young (teens on TikTok) and older demographics stems from her refusal to over-curate, a tone of honesty, and deep understanding of what audiences want across channels. [59:21–60:15]
• Quote: “It's strange that I walk Sports Illustrated with 25 year olds. But it's not like they're giving me the token grandma role like it's landing.” [60:25]

9. Entrepreneurship, Culture, and Living Freely

• She pushes back against the “everybody must be a mogul” narrative, advocating for varied experiences and freedom to “just live.” [50:03–50:58]
• Quote: “I'd rather be bartending, listening to amazing music, than be in some mogul office with my soul dying. Live...If you're being true to yourself and you're living and you're being smart and you have ideas and you're executing them, if you're really living and experiencing, it will come.” [51:41–52:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I just execute ideas. There's no strategy. I'm addicted to the idea.” [07:20] — Bethenny Frankel
• “People don't have to like me, but they do trust me, and I do have their attention.” [08:36] — Bethenny
• “No exclusivity, zero. So you can talk about any other products, anything I want.” [13:40] — Bethenny
• “If a relationship is dimming your light or stealing your energy, if a job is crushing your soul...I'd rather be bartending...than in a mogul office with my soul dying.” [51:41] — Bethenny
• On her business deals: “Tens of millions of dollars.” [14:36]
• “There's nothing a billionaire can do that I can't do. I don't care. I like being happy.” [29:20]
• “I'm not doing the blood, sweat and tears Bethany program.” [61:51]

Fun/Lighthearted Moments

• “The reason I make so much money is I just say no all the time.” [25:41]
• “I sleep with everybody. Emma, you sleep.” [20:11]
• “Cry me a river about Meghan Markle—I regret.” [64:47]
• “Bags, cars, watches and houses—but I don't buy anything that's not an investment, that's why it's not stupid.” [64:18–64:28]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:07]–[07:09] — Bethenny recounts the “accidental” viral TikTok rise and approach to authenticity.
• [08:36] — Trust and attention as key business assets.
• [11:10] — Bethenny discusses timing and instinct in business decisions.
• [13:32]–[14:28] — Explains exclusivity-free partnerships and their impact.
• [17:01]–[18:56] — Equity stakes, valuation of her contributions, and founder red flags.
• [19:14]–[20:00] — Team structure and “homemade” social media ethos.
• [23:34]–[24:21] — Balancing work with life; business mix (including "the list").
• [26:10]–[29:18] — Philosophy of enough, anti-billionaire culture, and freedom.
• [34:10]–[35:26] — Story of childhood instability and the origins of her money mindset.
• [40:48]–[42:56] — Dating advice for women—prioritizing substance and purpose over "surface."
• [61:26]–[61:53] — Refusal to start a labor-intensive “Bethenny brand.”
• [64:47] — Regrets over public tirades, specifically Meghan Markle.

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Takeaways & Lessons for Listeners

• Build trust and attention before anything else—likability is not as important as authenticity.
• Negotiate deals that maximize your contribution and personal values, not just financial upside.
• Freedom and happiness outweigh limitless growth or fame.
• Define your own business model—even if it defies conventional wisdom or established industry practices.
• Not everyone needs to be a mogul; varied life experience is as valuable as business success.
• Say no often and embrace only what serves you well.
• Your past shapes your values, but does not have to dictate your future.
• Bring your whole self—fun and flaws included—to everything you do.

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For anyone aspiring to craft an independent, lucrative, and deeply personal career, Bethenny Frankel’s journey demonstrates the value of decisiveness, honesty, and a willingness to step outside the mold.

Transcript

[A]

I am so excited to share my debut book with you all, Start With Yourself which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended. A conversation that will make you think and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start With Yourself is about self leadership because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and never gatekeeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes, I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins and never ever apologizing for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told there is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal, alignment is, and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emmagree.com to purchase the book. Also available on Amazon, your favorite audio platforms and all good bookshops. So they don't call Bethenny Frankel the Converter for nothing. And today's conversation even surprised me today. Bethany came with the numbers. She she came with the deal structures and she really is open about how to make a deal uniquely work for you. Bethany never thinks about herself as talent. She thinks about herself as a partner. And my God is she one of the best ones out there. You are going to love this conversation with Bethany Frankel and be sure to like and subscribe. Think about that feeling when you're fully unleashed, intentional, present and totally in the zone. That is the expansive joy and that movement brings and Peloton is helping you unlock it with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread plus Powered by Peloton iq, this is cross training reimagined to be as purposeful as the work you put into everything else in your life. We've all been there, spending more time scrolling for a class than actually working out. Now, Peloton IQ changes that by building a workout roadmap that is completely yours. It handles the what and the how so you can stop wasting energy on the plan and put all of that power into your performance. It's about being fully present in your own body. Whether you're hitting the Tread plus or the floor, the experience is absolutely seamless. You can move from running to strength training with one spin of the swivel screen. In this house, cross training isn't just about physical variety. It's a mindset to keep you moving forward without ever losing your momentum. With Peloton iq, your potential is just the starting point, not the finish line. It learns your vibe, recommends instructors who match your energy, and it fills your weekly roadmap towards the next version of you. So let yourself run, lift, foul, try and go explore the new Peloton Cross training Tread [e-mail] when your day starts early and doesn't slow down, the things that tend to fall off are the things your body actually needs. The vitamins, the gut support, the basics that keep everything running. I felt that especially this spring with the book tour. Eight cities, different time zones, never the same morning twice. It's the kind of stretch where it would be easy to let your routine slip, but AG1 is the habit I've stayed consistent with through all of it. It's a daily health drink with a multivitamin, prebiotics, probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants all in one step. Just one scoop with 8 ounces of water every morning and you're done. Their next gen formula delivers 75 plus ingredients backed by four clinical trials. It's shown to fill the common nutrient gaps and support your gut. What I like about it is the simplicity. So even on the road, I know I've taken care of the basics. This is the one thing that covers a lot of ground without adding complexity to my day. AG1 has over 50,000 verified five star reviews and comes with a 90 day money back guarantee. Visit drinkag1.com aspire to get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 in your AG1 welcome kit when you first subscribe. A $72 value. That's drinkag1.com aspire to drink ag1.com aspire. Bethany Sprankel welcome to Aspire.

[B]

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

[A]

As am I I am so happy you're here. Because if there's one person we can rely on right now to tell us the truth in the world, it is you, my dear.

[B]

Sadly, yes. But today, hopefully, it works out.

[A]

It's gonna make me happy. And I have to say, I feel like I have known of you for, like, the longest time, but it feels like right now, at the age of, what, 55, you are more relevant than ever before. And I give you so much credit for that because I think when you look at everything that you've done, starting businesses, to this kind of reinvention that you've done of yourself, you clearly are like a marketing and business genius. I wonder if you feel like you get enough props for how brilliant you are.

[B]

I don't know. I'm so sort of in it and I'm not out a lot and I'm not at events enough to know, like, what I'm perceived as. I'm perce by women like the moms and their teenage daughters very well. I mean, I'm the woman of that people. But I don't know. Overall, I wasn't expecting to be relevant now. I was leaving and I was living in Connecticut and I was very lonely and my daughter had a couple more years in school there, and I was feeling hopeless and just like in this big house. And I just was playing around with my makeup and I never knew how to do makeup. So I thought I would like to learn the skill of doing basic makeup if I were in Ohio to do an appearance. So I just was playing around with the videos and I didn't even really know how to do them. I didn't know how to post on TikTok. I certainly didn't know how to edit. I just was like, okay, film it and post it. I learned that. But there's this much room over my head and there was a light right above me. I didn't realize you're not supposed to have overhead lighting. I never knew you were supposed to clean a camera. Oh, I had no idea you're supposed to clean your lens. People were like, what's wrong with her lens? Like, there was always food on my face because I was just posting. I never looked at the videos. It started to go viral, but I didn't even know what that was. So I am a person. If there are more than. If there's more than one fish, I'm going to start thinking, so once you know what I mean? If I see a bunch of fish, like, I'm going to be like, wait, I'M never going to not have the net again.

[A]

So how much was deliberate strategy versus you being in survival mode and trying to think about, like, your relevancy curve versus you actually being very strategic?

[B]

I never thought of the skinny girl margarita. I just literally made a drink and then was like, wait, I just execute ideas. There's no strategy. I just execute ideas. And I'm addicted to the idea. The CMO of Beam Global, when they were buying me, said, you're an idea hamster. I have to control myself, because then it's just too much noise. If I'm doing something, I do it well. So no matter what it is, it could be making a snack. It doesn't matter. So once this started, I was enjoying it. And then once I saw people be interested in it, then I was like, wait, am I like, an influencer now? And it just took this whole life unto itself. But there was no playbook, because I've done it in a way that no one else has done it because I'm very secretive and gatekeepy.

[A]

That's the last thing I would say about you, that you're gatekeeping.

[B]

It's the agencies that all want my model. And I'm not sharing how I'm doing it because I watch how other talent is doing it, and I'm not giving that away. I'll give away all the makeup tips you want. But listen, every single person has a ready to drink cocktail now and a low calorie cocktail, and people will come in.

[A]

I've heard you say so much about how much hate you receive and how much people hate you. Do you look at it as something that is ultimately, like, really good for business? Because at the end of the day, there's an attention economy, and you have our attention pretty constantly.

[B]

I believe that trust and attention are the two most valuable assets right now in media. I think that if you can have both, it's unbelievable. People don't have to like me, but they do trust me, and I do have their attention. I mean, there's, like, data to prove that I don't, like, try to be hated. I don't want to be hated. But I am aware that the people that hated Howard Stern were tuning in for twice as long. I'm aware that the haters live for me. So, you know, they're a currency. And so I'll just clap back. I'll be like, well, you're right here, so thank you for being here. And get your popcorn out. Cause you're gonna hate me even more in about a moment.

[A]

Here we go. Do you feel pressure to actually have an opinion on everything? Are there times when you're just like, this is out of my realm, and I don't need to have an opinion.

[B]

I don't feel pressured to have opinions on everything. My team will sometimes send me something that they think is interesting and everyone's talking about, and then I'll watch the video or the thing, and I'll be like, wait, I have a take. I don't always have a take. And I sometimes have to get to the point where I will have a take, but it's only if there's a different take. I don't like just saying something that everyone else has been saying. And maybe it's wrong or people don't agree with it, but that's when I'll share. If it's different.

[A]

How do you know the difference between what is good attention and you actually, like, making trouble? Like, is there any distinction for you? Like, when you're like, actually, this is bad. This has crossed the line. I don't need this right now.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've. You know, I've had the moments when you're holding the steering wheel. You can't hold it too tight, and you can't let go because you're on the verge of cancellation. And you really. The way you act could really make the difference in being canceled or not. I mean, of course, cancellation has been canceled, but yet still. No. There are moments when you have to pay particular attention and where the same thing that worked yesterday won't work today, but it might work tomorrow. So you have to be smart and instinctive and have good gut, and it's not for the faint of heart.

[A]

No. And I feel like that's what you have. Like, when I look at some of your decisions, one of my favorite things that I love to say is, you make a decision and move on. And it feels like to me, in so many of your business moves and dealings, you've been super. It's like. And you almost, like, do things at. I'm not saying the wrong time. Cause they're right for you, but you do things at a counterintuitive time. It's like you leave at the height of you being on the Housewives. You sell your company for $100 million, when actually people are saying, maybe you should hold. You seem to have this kind of zeitgeisty feeling for when is the right time? And so I wonder, like, how you calculate those moments and how you actually know that you're gonna be Right.

[B]

What a great question and observation no one has had. I do have a sense, like, I feel it. It's almost like you're playing chess in your mind and you're just, like, seeing the way it's going to go. And pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. I also don't do anything that doesn't feel right. I don't do anything that I can't be totally honest about because it won't work. And so I don't write checks I can't cash. If I don't want to be somewhere, I don't want to be there, and I don't really care what kind of money's coming in.

[A]

I'm really curious to understand when a deal comes your way or an opportunity comes way. What is your thought process for whether or not you're going to take something and whether or not it's right for you.

[B]

So here's what goes on the whole social media and brand world. It's basically like a chicken for me. And you are. There's a breast and then there's the. You're making broth. And I really don't waste one bit of the chicken.

[A]

I love this chicken analogy. No one's ever said that to me.

[B]

So if somebody comes in and you have a tiny brand and you want my influence in some way, you will not leave the store without being able to buy something from this store. You will not be a dissatisfied customer, and you'll be excited to be part of it. And someone else is spending millions of dollars and you could be spending thousands of dollars. And this is the model that no one else understands. And that, like, I'm gonna share some, but not fully, because it really is. What is my secret sauce. It's why I don't create my own brand. Like, the reason I don't think.

[A]

Oh, this is one of my questions.

[B]

Yeah, listen, I don't. I haven't created my own skims or my own. And everyone's asked me to because I can't be honest. And I can't say that there's one. This is. Oh, just kidding. My skincare line, the seven steps. This is.

[A]

The single thing is perfect because you're like, no, I'm gonna have one hit. I'm gonna have a bunch of misses. And you wouldn't be out. That wouldn't be.

[B]

And I'm not gonna put it on my back. And I'm not gonna go on the Today show and the rest of the things that. It's just like, I would never compromise my Authenticity for anything. But I have another way of piecing it all together with all of the different brands. I'm not exclusive to them, which would never happen.

[A]

Which, by the way, this is one thing we have to get into. I need you to come back to this question. For years I worked in celebrity brand partnerships for 15 years. Never, ever, ever did I see a contract. And I'm talking, we are doing the biggest A listers on the planet. Down to brand new influencers with 25,000 followers. There's always a level of exclusivity. How on earth have you got away with that?

[B]

Because I'm very trusted and partners come to me for their marketing budgets. Like billion dollar, multibillion dollar companies come to me to figure out how they're going to spend.

[A]

No exclusivity, zero. So you can talk about any other

[B]

products, anything I want. And they want that because they know that I'm smart and I'm not going to jeopardize what we're discussing together and the products that I've truthfully loved and endorsed of theirs because I truly love them. Which is how we got here. It's Uber, it's Verizon, it's l', Oreal, it's Emco, it's, it's food, it's travel, it's restaurants. I mean, it's everything. Because I speak to many things and I'm just brutally honest. And I'll say something sucks and I'll say something from a company that I'm working with that's paying me millions of dollars that something sucks because it sucks and you have to change it. And I'll tell them what they have to change and I'll tell them how to spend their marketing budget. And I'll tell them, I will not read the sheet of what you're telling me to say because you won't do well. You won't move product. I can only say what I feel about it. You shouldn't be coming to me to read a boring script. That's not what I'm here for.

[A]

So how is this working out for you? Because it looks like it's going real well. And I just wonder, like, is the money crashing on in right now?

[B]

It's tens of millions of dollars.

[A]

Tens of millions of dollars in the brand and influence in the field right now.

[B]

Yes. Not including my other businesses, my real

[A]

estate, my Lens, we're talking $10 million, $20 million.

[B]

No, we're talking like 20 plus million dollars.

[A]

So let me just go back a second. So it's Very clear that you're not going to do something unless you really believe in it. But what other lenses? And do you ask yourself when you're making a decision about whether or not to go into a partnership? Tell me the thought process.

[B]

Okay, so I'll give you a model that I'm creating now. Why I'm not starting my own line, but a new model that is good for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A brand, a haircare brand came to me, okay. By a very, very wealthy woman like you. Wealthy woman. And it is very successful. But it hasn't fully popped off. So it is pregnant, but it might not go to term. Okay, just add me because the product is excellent. There's another company that is the guy under Howard Schultz created this coffee concept I'm obsessed with. They didn't give me enough in the beginning. They first I popped it off just like I popped off other brands. They come back, they want a taste. I'm like, no, no, no, I already made your. I already. You're where you are because of me. And I never made any money the first time. I'll give you a taste. I'm the drug dealer.

[A]

Do you do that deliberately? Do you go, wait a minute, here's a brand over here. There's the potential partnership.

[B]

All shapes and sizes. What in this, I don't know what anything is. I'm blind. Cars, coffee makers. Thousands of dollars. Diamonds. A coffee maker came. I tried. I'm like, this is the richest bitches of coffee makers. It's this technology and it tasted like it was from Australia. I give every product a chance if it's in my house. And I know that cost that brand money. I'm going to try it at some point. Could be three months from now. So I was like, I'm obsessed. They wanted to just pay me a fee, a fine to use the content. That's nothing. They want more. I'm like, no, you got your taste. I blew up your brand. You said it was more influential than any other big time celebrity. Now I need a piece. So they gave me.

[A]

Are you measuring this yourself?

[B]

To my team. I have a team. Yes. Well, I have a team there. Yes.

[A]

So you have an awareness of how much, like, value you're delivering to the brand so that you're actually saying to them, look, I can see this happened.

[B]

Not as granular at that point for everyone. I know that 20 people have said to me, oh, my God, I'm obsessed with that product. Because you and I know if I've heard about that, there are a lot more mice under the floorboards. So then this company gives me a certain amount in the beginning, and that's enough to talk about. It's not enough to be my baby or cash deal. Equity and cash.

[A]

What gives you the idea that you're like, this is a company that's worth taking equity versus this is just like a cash up front.

[B]

How oversubscribed they are, where the value still is. Can I make a difference? So this coffee company, for example, called Cumulus Coffee, they didn't give me enough for me to be fully, like, giving birth to it. And I've seen them now, two years later, this is where I'm getting to the model about the hair care. Two years later, I'm watching. They didn't pop off yet. And I'm like. Cause you did this, that, and the other thing wrong. Put me in, coach. Hurt yourself and give me a big piece, because I'll take it into the end zone. This is the. Just add Bethany. They're already a major company. The guy was under Howard Schultz. They've spent millions of dollars. The technology is there. Put me in. I don't need it to be the Bethany brand, nor do I need the hair care company to be the Bethany brand. You're already 80% there, so you'd rather

[A]

come in and shortcut. Someone's done all these things.

[B]

And you're taking 30% of a company. And you're taking 30% of A company for some. In some cases.

[A]

Shut up. What did you take 30% of?

[B]

I don't think I can say that. You're taking 30% of a company, but you're taking that.

[A]

We're not talking like two. You're taking a meaningful chunk of an already fully funded entity that's out there and selling now.

[B]

Because before the little 2%, you're not gonna get what you want out of me. Cause I'm not gonna pretend. Am I gonna every day talk about it? You're getting a bigger value than I am.

[A]

Talk to me about a deal that you would walk away from. So I've read that you said you're not a contract person. You are a concept person, right?

[B]

Yes. If I don't like the founder, if I don't see the moves that the founder is making that are smart, and I have one that gave me a. A big percentage of their company. But they're not going into the end zone. And I really just don't wanna bet there are too many great founders to sit around with someone who is in their own head and who they wanna be Famous more than make their brand famous. Like, people have to just understand what's most important. That's a big, big problem with founders right now. They want more of their own press than to worry about the brand. I'm a marketer. I'm a brand builder. I'm a messenger, a connector. I am only interested in things that I am obsessed with, that I really think I can affect the change because that's the passion. I don't want you to just give me free money. I don't care about money that much. I like. I really don't.

[A]

So what's the motivation, the idea, the

[B]

execution of the idea? Like, the creativity. I'm a very creative person, but I'm a very creative business person, and I love, like, the craftiness of the contract. Well, okay, then work it out that way then. Fine. Give me nothing. Give me all the upside. Give me the back points on the movie.

[A]

How involved are you in these negotiations?

[B]

Very.

[A]

So what's the team look like?

[B]

The team looks like. I have a COO who worked with Drew Barrymore before and Reese Witherspoon before. I have a woman that I taught how to pretty much do this. I just said, just start taking all the incoming calls. And now we've crafted this. That's why it's different, because she didn't come from some other place doing this. We created this model on our own. So this is my right hand. She's like my, you know, my Huma Abedin, my Sheryl Sandberg. She's my right hand. And she and I talk about everything in, like, the craftiest way possible. Like, you know, not eating in the house.

[A]

And everyone's in house.

[B]

Everyone's in house.

[A]

And what's the social media team look like?

[B]

Social media team is four. One is just interfacing with brands all day long, like what they need, what they don't need, keeping the brands happy. I'm really the. In the wild. I really do the social media myself, which is crazy. And I.

[A]

No, no, I. It's.

[B]

You can tell it's homemade, and I want it that way. It's not overproduced. But you have to have people feeding the bakery. So I have three other people.

[A]

Do you have, like, an agent, a manager, a publicist? Like, that whole situation?

[B]

The agencies that I work with, I would not say that I have an agent. I'm not exclusive. I'm not an exclusive girl. I sleep with everybody. Emma, you sleep.

[A]

Everybody sleep with everybody, don't you just. She gets about and she makes the

[B]

money, and I Tell them all right before we sleep together that I sleep with everybody.

[A]

And what about, I heard that you recently fired a social media agency. Like, what made you make that decision when you're really like, so popping off in social right now?

[B]

Someone told me when I was already making probably a couple of million dollars a year, someone said, this was several years ago. You have to go with this company because then this is the company that everybody goes with everybody. And because they're gonna bring you millions and millions of dollars of deals. And I walked in and I said, well, great. Well, I have to carve out these 20, 25 companies that I'm already working with, whether it's Maybelline and covergirl and Neutrogena, and I get to carve out a lot of companies. Every agent only focuses on the 25 things you've carved out. They only focus on the toy you told them not to play with. So I'd work with Amazon every day. They'll be like, oh, we could help you. I'm like, we're good with Amazon. You don't need it. To the tops of Amazon. Okay, we're okay. So I had this agency and I said, great, here are the keys to the kingdom. Let's see what you could do. And they and all the other agencies were bringing in probably 2% of deals. Agents will say, because there's confusion in the marketplace and it's not true. There's no confusion in the marketplace. They just don't bring in the deals. We bring in the deals. We talk directly to the CMOs of billion dollar companies and we do it. We're quick. We can move in two seconds.

[A]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. One of the things I've learned is that the way you manage yourself determines everything. How you lead, how you show up for the people around you, how you make decisions under pressure. And therapy is of the most underused tools for getting better at all of it. It's not just for crisis moments. It's a space to build self awareness, set boundaries, and develop the kind of habits that make you more effective in every area of your life. The people who are the most intentional about their growth are usually the ones who have someone helping them see what they can't see on their own. BetterHelp makes it easy to fit into a busy schedule. Everything is online, so you can do phone, video or messaging sessions. And they have over over 30,000 credentialed therapists. If your match isn't the right fit, you can just switch at any time at no Extra cost. Prioritize your well being with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com aspire to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com aspire. Take a step back for me and talk to me about how you see and categorize yourself as a business right now. Because you're doing so many different things. I wonder and I hear you saying there is no strategy, but there is a strategy to like Bethany, overall, I

[B]

am a very decisive person. To what you said, I am a chess player. It's not a strategy like I wanna be a billionaire, I need to do this. It's a strategy in the machinations of how it's working every day and how they interface with each other. I won't do one thing if it doesn't work with something else. I won't do anything that disturbs my peace. I don't work that much. I'm always think I will only ever shoot content for any of the products on a day that I am ready in hair and makeup and somewhere like this. So if I were to leave the shoot, we would say, can I use one of your offices? And my team would come in and we'd be doing all the products because I like my free time, I like my daughter, my dogs, the man I'm seeing, I am very happy.

[A]

How much are you working?

[B]

Like physically working? Probably, I don't know, like 20% of a week, 10% of a week. Not a lot. I don't want, I don't like 20. I like to just get things done. But this is creative. If I don't want to do it, I don't do it. If I'm in a restaurant, I decide to talk about it, it's going to go viral and that's going to be great for them. And I only know that because Eugene from Corner Store told me that you are. What happened to our restaurant? It was you. And you. Wow.

[A]

That was you?

[B]

Yeah. He said you posted about it and then Taylor Swift came in and then it changed our lives. He just said that this week. So I was just in CVS today because my makeup was screwed up. That'll turn into some kind of a deal, like it just will. Because I was telling the people that this product, this elf powder, happens to be better than what I just got done by the makeup artist. It just does. So that'll probably turn into a deal because it's true.

[A]

Back to the question though. How are you looking at yourself and your business? Like, what are you trying to build?

[B]

Well, the Thing is that a lot of this is on my back. So that's not viable business model. If you're a massage therapist, you have to have a massage therapy business because it's all on your back. There's only so many things you can do. So I have the list, which is the place where people go to find all of the products. And it's very editorial and it's very like Own magazine or a Gooper. It's a world.

[A]

And what is that? That is like an affiliate network.

[B]

It's like an affiliate network, but also some of our partners. And whatever I do on my podcast, like, everybody's sort of in the business of me. So everybody plays in all these spaces. So all of the brands end up being in the list. And it's good. Everybody wins. The person wins because it's Mother's Day and I'm helping you with what the best gift is. And you know what's crap and what's not crap. The brand wins because they're moving product or I've said it's bad and they need to work on this and I'm giving them free constructive criticism. I win because I make a lot of money. What I see myself is as a person that really is directly connecting to humans. It's all about connection.

[A]

What's the end game?

[B]

The end game is when I get tired, I'll stop doing it. The Bethany seal is now something that we're putting on different things, and retailers want to pay into it. Stores want to have Bethany approved products in. But that's not an end game. It's just a good idea. And yes, I'll make a lot of money off it. I don't have an end game.

[A]

You don't have an end game?

[B]

No, because I'm not motivated by, like, money. I'm not. It's just if I'm gonna turn your business, of course I'm gonna make money. And I'm not stupid. But it's not. I really don't. I want. My end game is to be on the beach, hanging out and doing what I want and making money and what I want. And I just keep charging people more because I keep saying no. So the reason I make so much money is I just say no all the time. I won't do things for, like, any normal amount of money because I wanna enjoy my life or make a lot of money doing it.

[A]

I'm literally, like, dead. I was so expecting a totally different answer. Do completely believe you. I mean, there's nothing not to believe, but it's really interesting because I think that so many people have, like, such a giant vision for themselves. And when you have options, right, like, because you have a lot of options, you could really be thinking about this as, like, what is Bethany, the media company? How do you make a million more Bethany's.

[B]

I could have a hundred people under me and manage their businesses like this. I could have an agency. I could. I value my life. I value my daughter. Like, I want to be. I want to live. I want to be healthy.

[A]

Where does that come from?

[B]

I know what it means to be like, what it means to feel unhealthy, and I want to feel unhealthy. This is fun for me. Like, these pro. It's fun. It's fun that I spilled tomato soup all over myself, go into Talbot's and found clothes and was like, wait, they have cute jeans and then Talbot's clothes. It's all real. Like, I just want to live. And if I don't want to do it, I don't do it. So if I don't want to go to the restaurant, if I don't want to go to Paris and walk in Fashion Week and talk about products for different brands, I won't go. I'm only doing exactly what I wanna do. And so if I don't like it, you'd probably have to pay me a ton. And I probably would still say no. But, like, if it was a ton ton, maybe I wouldn't. Cause it would be too much to turn down. But I like to have fun. I like to laugh, I like to dance. I like to have sex. I like to be with my dogs. I like to date. I like to cook. And I just like to be at the beach. So whatever gets in the way of that, I will not do.

[A]

And what makes you emotional?

[B]

The risk of that? Feeling shackled, Feeling trapped, feeling controlled, Feeling like my light is dimmed. Feeling put in a box. Feeling like I'm given words that I have to do. Feeling like I partner with someone, they're gonna make me do something I don't wanna do. Like, I really just don't like doing what I don't wanna do. Cause it's just not authentic how much

[A]

of that is linked to things that have happened in your past. Like, I just wonder where that dread and that feeling comes from. Because seemingly you have so much options at the moment. Like, that's not gonna happen. Is that just so much about where you've been in your life, your private and personal life in the past?

[B]

I mean, I don't know, I just think, like, why does everybody have to be a billionaire? Like, I could be a billionaire. Like, what is that? It's just, like, a flex now. It's all these, like, douchey guys and girls. I have a dating concept and every girl who has and they say, what do you bring to the table? A lot of these girls don't have a lot to bring to the table. They're, like, sort of cute and, like, they just come in with their hands out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the only thing they know is they want someone with a big program and a billionaire. And I'm like, who the fuck do

[A]

you think you are, Stephanie? You are preaching to the converted. I spoke about this so much in my book because I feel like we've gone crazy. Like, that everything needs to be a unicorn. Everything needs to be a billion dollar opportunity.

[B]

It's such a stupid word. Enough.

[A]

It is. And it also has no value. Like, at the end of it, it's like, yeah, you might have, like, a giant thing, but do you want everything that goes along with that? And I think that there is so much to be said for somebody that actually has a lot of options and chooses what is right for them. Like, that is actually the definition of having a vision and a strategy for yourself. You know exactly what is right for you, and you are choosing the things that are gonna make your life meaningful. Not taking every opportunity that you have. No, the biggest thing, because time.

[B]

We're not getting time back.

[A]

Facts.

[B]

There's nothing a billionaire can do that I can't do. And I don't want. I don't care. I like to being. There's no price on being happy and laughing. I am funny because I am, like, an idiot. And I love to be, like, stupid and laugh, and I like to make people laugh and bring them in with me. And I like to, you know, show women that, like, you can turn it out when you need to turn it out. You can be successful, that you can have fun, you could dance to stupid dances. And, like, it's not that deep.

[A]

When do you think you learned that?

[B]

I've been silly my whole life. I've always really liked to laugh. I had some number one sleep and laughter, I would say, would be my top priorities. Except for my daughter, obviously. So, yeah, everyone's always been trying to figure out, like, what the plan is and did I plan all this? And I'm always like, I've overshot the mark. I never planned any the of. I just wanted to be able to pay my rent. I just wanted to not be, like, suffocating from feeling like I was gonna be broke and knowing who was gonna take care of me. I had no family.

[A]

Yeah, well, you had a lot of foresight. Cause if I go back to those original housewife Bravo days, the idea that you had so much foresight to carve out of your deal any business opportunities so that that could be 100% yours. I mean, that led to your first success, but you were the first person to do that. And I think that that's so interesting that you were even thinking about and had the foresight to think about yourself as a brand before you were anyone.

[B]

I had nothing. You know what it is? I think this is all linked. And I will try to think about where that comes from. Everything that we've said is about having freedom locked into a deal agent. Someone telling you, shackled, you take a piece of my thing, the brand agency, where there's no there there. Like, I just want to be able to do it myself and talk directly to the person that I'm doing it with or for, or just talk to the people. That's why people think I wanna be back on television. I don't at all. Do you see me wanting to be sitting and talking to suits and telling them, pitching them what would work to then shoot it for all this time and then edit to then wait.

[A]

You have no interest.

[B]

Zero. Unless we're just about in my house, like, about this. But, like, no, I don't. Cause again, I don't wanna be shackled. I don't want cruise in my house. I left twice. I don't want that life.

[A]

How important was it for you that you were able to. To create that carve out for yourself from your original Bravo contracts?

[B]

Oh, it's a flex. It's a flex. It's smart. It's good. Like case law for other people. It shows to just believe in yourself. It shows to never assume anyone's smarter than you and to just, like, understand. I didn't know the difference between the word licensing and equity when I did My Skinny Girl. I didn't know. I just. But I always asked.

[A]

You didn't.

[B]

I had no idea what either word meant. And I asked the lawyer, and he said, this is licensing. Means you'll start taking money now. Equity is like, it's yours. And I said, well, this I feel like is my ace in the hole. So I like the equity choice, but I don't understand a lot. And I always ask. I'm a crowdsourcer. And then I do decide. I'm a very great decider. Decider, yes.

[A]

And when you exited that company, it was $100 million exit, right?

[B]

I can't say exactly. I mean, I never have said exactly what it is, but it also was like I had a big back end and I had a big multimillion dollar kicker. And I also triple dipped because two other creative concepts in that deal were that I said that I would only promote things that we had discussed, and then they decided to do something else. And I said, well, you can do it. And they said, well, we need you to promote it. And I said, you have to pay me per case. So they paid me per case. And then there was another. I said to them, well, how do I know you're going to market it? How do I know you're gonna market the product so I can earn my back end? And I said, you have to put in writing that you'll market 18% of the budget. And they didn't spend it that one year. And I end up up being 100,000 cases short. But I still got the, I think it was five, like $10 million kicker. So there were a lot of different ways to make money. I kept making money. I made a 10 year endorsement deal too, so they paid me six years.

[A]

So on top of the equity, you actually ended up with an endorsement. Yes, but that's really smart. That's about you really understanding the business that you were in and your value to that business and finding ways that you can kind of, you know, get more milk from the same cow as we say. I mean, that's it.

[B]

That's the chicken.

[A]

That's the chicken. You got a chicken, I've got a cow. I love it.

[B]

Well, and also, many people only look at the one number and you have to look different ways. What are the other things you can do if you sign the contract this way at a little bit less than you want to take? What are the other ways to structure? What about taking more upside? What about, you know, there are many ways to work deals and you can't only think about the one way, which is what most people do. So if you can't get the deal that you want, find your way in.

[A]

I want to talk to you a little bit about your attitude to money because you've spoken so much about not needing money, not like having to do this job for money, but your relationship with money is interesting. And we spoke a little bit about you growing up around the racetracks and gambling, which was similar to me. But that means that you grow up around a Lot of financial chaos. And I read beyond. Right. It always is. I read somewhere that you said that your mother had tremendous money noise. And I wonder how that kind of impacted your relationship with money.

[B]

Well, her relationship with men created my money noise. So it was that I have had the noise because she would be with. She would tell me that she gave up her life for me and that she was with all of these men for money for me. And it was gambling and drugs and, you know, you'd be paying back like bookmakers. And we'd have. The whole house was no furniture and a card table and my room would have furniture in it. Like we'd have six cars in the driveway, then we'd have nothing. I was in 13 schools. We'd moved from one house to another house. Like we had no financial stability. It was highs and lows. It was racetrack. You want a race, you want a couple of races, you're up for good. Yeah, yeah. So it was very gambler mentality. And it took me a while to crack open a mini bar to spend the money for a private plane, but not every time. I'm not wasteful. I don't waste money, time or food. I don't waste same, same, same. So I like it, want it, need it, and like the freedom it provides for experiences, for medical, for things like that. But enough is enough, you know what I mean? Enough is enough. I'm home safe now. I have four homes. I don't like big, giant, showy places or things like that. So I'm happy.

[A]

Do you think your kind of obsession though, around ownership and equity has stemmed from that instability?

[B]

Yes, there's a lot of instability that has informed where I am now and how I have that relationship to money. And even with men, I've thought at this stage I needed to be with someone who had more than I do or the same. And I no longer think I, I really, I think that's the worst thing. And I've learned that through the dating community because everybody, all these women wanting to come in and money's their biggest priority and mine is happiness and love.

[A]

I was reading so much about your divorce, which kind of pained and irked me in a way to imagine that a woman could be in a two year relationship with a ten year divorce. And I wonder how you think about like your own money in relationship to the relationships that you get into because you have a daughter. And I wonder if that experience has just made you shut down and be like so overly protective around what you have and how you make it Right now.

[B]

I was very flippant about my prenup then, but I didn't really trust my partner at that time the whole time. And it wasn't just because I had money and he didn't. It was just because I just didn't trust. And that served. That became true. I won't be probably that trusting with money, but I just don't want money to be a character in any relationship. The one thing that should not be a problem in any relationship that I'm in is money. There's something wrong with you if you are as successful as I am and you're thinking about money. And by the way, I know a lot of very successful, like very successful people that are in the dating community that hundreds of millions of dollars and they still want a man who has more money than them. You'll give them a great guy who has money and is successful and good looking. It's like a sickness. And I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like, there's something wrong.

[A]

Like, so you don't need to date a man that has equal money to you. That's how I think a lot of women feel. Like, I don't want a man who makes less money than me.

[B]

And that's what the. What does that mean? Why? What does that mean? Can we go out to dinner? I have houses. What do I need you to buy me another house? I have bags, watches. What do we. What do we need?

[A]

Well, I feel like the fear is that that person would be using you. Or you know, it's like it's. If somebody has less than you that perhaps they're not on equal footing, that that creates a dynamic in the relationship. Like, I understand why women would feel that way.

[B]

No, I understand that. But assuming that that other person seems motivated by money, if they don't seem motivated by money, it's a different thing. Yeah. If they don't seem like they care about money, if they don't seem interested in. Then you can't penalize them for not having been as hungry as you are. Yeah. I think someone has to be successful to be with me. Someone has to be able to take me on vacation, buy me a present and go out to dinner. But I've had men buy me diamonds and Hermes bags and watches and cars and all this stuff, and it hasn't filled the void. So I'm certainly not gonna make that mistake. And actually, I think many women feed themselves with stuff to make up up for what they're not getting emotionally, because they better get something they're leaving the game show, they better walk out with something.

[A]

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[B]

Well, well I'm always around 20 and 30 year old influencers for these beauty brands and one is more stunning than the next and the nails and the extensions and the lashes and they all are saying they can't find a man. Now I'm in my 50s and I find always, always have had great game with men beyond like to want to marry me and like amazing because I don't focus on the things I shouldn't be focused on. Don't want to be the hottest woman in the room, be the most interesting woman in the room. Have something going on that your own purpose, something that drives you somewhere you need to be. Be interesting, have a personality, be funny, know something, have experience something, bring something to the table. Literally. Like it's not. Because what happens is I've met many men who now have full custody of their children. Why? Because the women signed up for that deal. They focus on the lashes and the hair and the Chanel bags. The man wanted that deal. Now we get older, our kids graduate, what are we supposed to do? More shopping, to go shopping, to get makeup, to go shopping, to go to lunch. I'm bored half the time. And I have a business. I'm like, what do people do with their day? And men are getting smarter and more interesting and their businesses and they're looking good. And longevity. And now the disparity. The woman is sitting home popping pills and drinking and she has no purpose. And he's sitting thriving. And in many cases, even the men, they, they end up feeling like they need purpose. Like purpose is a big word. But for the women, women, they lose the custody of their kids because they get into like boredom and into drinking and pill and, and doing things they shouldn't be doing.

[A]

I think it's a really familiar story that you're telling. Like the outward facing stuff, it's like an empty calorie, like it's just, it's nothing.

[B]

Everybody was excited in their 20s to have something, to make something, to build something. Now the men are talking, creating and women are sitting here worrying about what bag and how much nicer they're ringing, like who gives a shit? And the men Are like, you're great. Like, I don't respect this at all because I want to be interested. I want to be engaged in a conversation. 30 women don't need to be worried about their eyelashes. Worried about your personality and your intellect and your being fun and being alive and just, you know. Yeah, being alive. Like not worrying. Be alive, live.

[A]

I want to talk about your recent move because you've moved yourself and your daughter to Florida and you feel. It feels like you have this whole new beautiful life. How purposeful was that for you? Was that like, I need to move away. I want a change of pace. I want something different now. The reason I ask you is because I feel like you've been in build mode your entire life and it feels like fairly obvious that now you want a different pace in your life full on.

[B]

And that's part of the stuff thing. We spend the first half of our lives acquiring the stuff and now it doesn't mean anything anymore. And that is the gift that all the stuff that I get sent has given to me. It's amazing to tell people what's good and what's not. My shoes are Amazon. My watch is very rare. Rare Audemars Piguet. It's not cosplaying anything. It's a fact.

[A]

Literally high, low.

[B]

But it's literally high low. Okay. It's that I can't believe how lucky I get. Like I get to go be on the beach every day. I go into the ocean every day and walk on the beach. Like, who cares about like being.

[A]

It's like a made up life.

[B]

I need a plane. What do you mean? I don't want to go anywhere. I'm so happy. I live on. I live on the beach. My daughter's happy. We have a great life and it's a great base. I think where you have as a base is important. I think finding out what you connect to, whether it's the mountains, whether it's a lake, whether it's nice little walks, whether it's a charming little space, feng shui, whatever it is. Have that for me. It's a place that is like very minimally designed.

[A]

Are you getting spiritual on us, Bethany? Like all of this connection to nature and less and like I feel like

[B]

I've always been fairly spiritual. I just don't like perform it. I just am it. But I am very into being connected and I'm into. The ocean is healing and it's very present and I'm very. It's the time when I'm grateful. I don't usually I'll be excited and be like, wow, this is amazing. But. But the time that I'll stop down to be like, wow, I'm really grateful is like, after snowboarding or surfing or going into the ocean, taking a beach walk. I never say how grateful I am. After I make millions of dollars on a deal. I never say how present and grateful I am.

[A]

What do you want your daughter to learn from what you've done, the way you've moved, all of the things that you've created for both of you?

[B]

I want her to be happy, and that is it. Like, for example, she gets straight A's. She gets. Gets like hundreds on tests and 4.4, and she could go to any school she wants, probably. She wants to go to school in Miami. She wants to be near the dogs and go to University of Miami. I don't care if she goes to Harvard. Like, I don't want to. We don't want to be at Harvard. We want to be near the beach, swimming. I mean, she's like a free, cool, earthy spirit. She's like, got it just natural style. She's like a shiny, shining sprinkle, like a light. She's the Nepo. And she's also the Nepo baby. I mean, she happens to be the Nepo baby. We can't take it away from her. You know, she gave me her Erewhon list. She did. The Nepo baby gave me her air wand.

[A]

She gave you an Erewhon list? Yeah. You're about to be 1500 bucks down.

[B]

I just got a cooler at CVS because I'm gonna schlep a pink cooler on the plane with the Nepo babies

[A]

on your Erewhon goodies.

[B]

Yeah. When I literally put a footage in the backseat at 39 years old, it's

[A]

so crazy to me that you literally couldn't afford to take a taxi at 39.

[B]

Like, late 30s, maybe. It was a little early whenever I. Late 30s, yeah.

[A]

I mean, but still, I mean, like, you didn't have any money?

[B]

No, I didn't have any money. I definitely didn't. I didn't. I went on the Housewives, and I think I had $8,000 in my bank. I did have $8,000 in my bank account, and my rent was, I think, twenty something hundred dollars.

[A]

Did you know that it was gonna turn out? Like, were you, like, I'm made for this.

[B]

The Housewives. I didn't even know what this was, but I became very good at it very quickly.

[A]

Do you have any regrets?

[B]

No, I don't think so, no. I mean, I had. Obviously, you can't regret a marriage because you have a daughter from it. It was the worst experience of my whole entire life by every stretch of the imagination. But I was able to help so many women because of it, and I was able to survive something like that. That continuing to prove that, like, if you really do work hard at something, it's old school hard work that will get you through anything. And, like, you just treat things like a marathon, like one, one mile at a time. So I think that's important information. I mean, a decade is a long time to sort of burn. Being losing hair and being miserable and abused. It was bad.

[A]

Stephanie. Why, why was it 10 years? Like, what happened to make it that dragged out?

[B]

Well, there was, there was fraud, there was forgery, there were arrests, there was tro. There was stalking and harassment. There was, there were multiple trials. There were multiple custody trials. I mean, there was a parenting coordinator that fired us. There were, I mean, there was, There was a guardian ad litem, hired, which means a child has their own lawyer, because there was a lot. There was, it was torture, actual torture. There's. There's the stuff that you're not supposed to do in a divorce that you have to break some rules and know what rules to break. You're not post. You buy anything on your own. So yet you're supposed to stay in a house with someone that, okay, so you break the rule and then you go buy a house. You're not supposed to leave the marital residence. You break the rule and you do that. You're not supposed to get a therapist unless there's approval on the other side, but you have to, you have to take care of something.

[A]

So this just dragged and dragged and dragged. Who were you in those 10 years, in that 10 years where you were going through this, what sounds like a horrific divorce? Were you somebody other than who we see today?

[B]

There was a lot of housewives. There was a lot of that, like, that a lot of intensity, a lot of, like, being frayed and, like, very much on edge. Yeah, I was tweaking. I mean, it was stuff going on underneath. And I, I, it was really a bad time. And you have cameras on you and you're supposed to perform, and you've got this whole other life that you, you can't talk about and you're being stalked by the press and you can't go back to your house, so you're like in your full talk show outfit at Barnes and Noble just to not have to go Back to your house with your kid. Like every day there was like a new babysitter, which one day it was like the cupcake making place. The next day it was Barnes and Noble. The next day it was the park. And you're like in something like this in full makeup because you just don't want to go home until it's time to go to sleep. It was really bad. Like, there's no way to explain what women go through and. And a bad divorce.

[A]

It was interesting for me because there was from the outside, even though I think that it was fairly well known that you were going through something horrendous, you were also kind of balling out during that period. Like, there was a lot happening for you in your career at the same time.

[B]

There was a lot happening. But it does feel like I was white knuckling. It wasn't like a free space like now. And I do think that's important for entrepreneurs to give themselves creative freedom. I am the best when, when I've just come off of a very long summer in the Hamptons or a vacation or sleep into wake the next morning. Like, people are too much into the grind. And if you're a creative person, you need the space to create and have ideas. And so that was a very crowded time. And I feel like I'm always going to be able to be entertaining and make money now. But that wasn't my freest time. Now is my happiest freest time.

[A]

Say more about that. Just in terms of like, what you see and the way like entrepreneurship are kind of like made to feel like there needs to be a constant grind.

[B]

You know, it's great that there are shows like Shark Tank and that people have become billionaires in their garage, but it's made it that every young person thinks that they're supposed to know exactly what they want to do with their lives and they have to be on that road. And I did everything. I was hostess at a restaurant. I was Linda and Jerry Bruckheimer's assistant. I was Paris and Nikki's nanny. I worked for Lorne Michaels. I had every job because I didn't know we were supposed to be, like, focused on being something. I thought we were supposed to live and just get jobs and see where the road to took us. Everybody doesn't need to think that they're supposed to be a mogul at certain age. Like, be free, be free. Live a life. Experience things you're going to miss so much. I mean, I've had such an incredible life. Not because of Brand deals I've done. Not because I invented the skinny margarita, because I've been, I've traveled by myself, I've had credit card debt, I've bounced multiple checks. I've dated all kinds of people without any goals of what they need to do for a living.

[A]

You're saying something that really chimes with me. Not everybody needs to be a mogul. Not everybody needs to have a billion dollar business. The reason that we even understand and have absorbed all of those ideas in the culture is largely because social media has ushered them in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? I feel the difference for young people now is that they don't remember life before that. They don't know to look up because they never had to. They lived their lives like that.

[B]

They do. But there's a lot of fun stuff in there. There's a lot of humor in there, there's a lot of cooking in there, there's a lot of inspiration in there. It's not all bad. There's a lot in there. I mean, I think I've learned a lot in there.

[A]

So there's nothing in you that feels like the drag of social media, like that part that like pulls you down, that you need a little hiatus, you gotta come off, then you take it away from it.

[B]

Just like working in an office in a cubicle with your head down. That's.

[A]

Have you ever done that?

[B]

I could never do that. No. But I've worked as a ho. Any job that you hate, you're like in a. Trapped in a bad lighting, like, you know, cubicle. That's bad too. Just self regulation is important. Intervening and knowing it's. If you don't feel good, if your soul is being crushed, you could feel. When your soul is being crushed, day by day, you feel like if you live, where you live is taking a piece of you. If a relationship is dimming your light or stealing your energy, if a job is crushing your soul and you could feel the difference between being inspired and not. I'd rather be bartending, listening to amazing music than be in some like, mogul office with my soul dying. Like live. You have to live, you have to feel free. It will come, the money will come, the business will come, the ideas will come. If you're being true to yourself and you're living and you're being smart and you have ideas and you're executing them, if you're like really living and experiencing, it will come. If you're a true entrepreneur, you'll find your way.

[A]

You've built a $20 million business off of yourself. Like, I wonder if there's ever a time and ever any part of you that's like, I almost like, I don't want to be Bethany today because so like, your brand is just so much anchored in you and your personality and you saying these things like, are you when the camera goes off?

[B]

I am someone else in certain areas of my life. I am very much someone else in relationship. I do give a little some Easter eggs, but a relationship is really important to me. And so that is totally private. I am a very private person. That is the thing people don't really understand. I am a very insular person. I am a homebody. Now, that is very difficult to understand because people are seeing me when I'm decked, but they're also seeing me a lot in pajamas. More in pajamas.

[A]

We see you a lot in pajamas.

[B]

A lot, a lot. But I am very private.

[A]

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[B]

I want to be in a relationship, a successful relationship for myself and my daughter. Because we're rolling very light, and it comes up during holidays. It comes up just in different ways with our unit. There are a lot of personal things going on within her family dynamic, let's just say that have made it that. That I want her to be more part of a community. And so the relationship that I want for myself also includes her. And I know it's possible, and I want it for us.

[A]

You want a family, you want a unit.

[B]

I want a unit. I want a family. I want to be part of a team. I want to work for sure. Because I believe in the power of purpose, and I believe being connected to something. I just want enough of the vehicle that I can still connect with an audience in the way that I do now and laugh. It doesn't have to be, obviously, as often, and it wouldn't be, but I like the laughter I like. So when you said, is it all just on Bethany? Is it too much of just Bethany? I do have a private life, but, like, I think it's fun to do all this. I feel so grateful that I get to just be like, oh, my God, they're gonna laugh so hard. I need to be expressing myself through laughter, through dance, through connecting to an audience. Like, I really just need to express, because that's stifling to me to not be able to creatively express myself.

[A]

How close are you to the family unit that you really aspire to?

[B]

Not as far away as you would think.

[A]

Good. How much longer do you think you can keep up with the $20 million years?

[B]

Oh, well, I can't. Cause it was probably 15 last year, and it'll be 40 next year. So I can't keep up with that. Cause it'll be much bigger. I don't know. Maybe, like, at this clip. Like five more years. Years.

[A]

Five more years.

[B]

Yeah. But every year, the numbers increase exponentially.

[A]

It's increasing.

[B]

It's pretty good. And Also, a lot of these brands that I've invested in, they'll turn. When the tables go cold, I will walk out. Or if I don't like it anymore, I'll walk out. I always leave at the peak of the party. Hello. I love Housewives. Twice at the peak of the party.

[A]

Your timing is impeccable. I know I keep going back to money, but it's because it is one of those subjects that really fascinates me. Why are you so comfortable talking about money? We were having a conversation about how hard it is for people to actually dig into that subject. What makes you so comfortable to, like, just put the number out there?

[B]

I have never put the number out there until today. So I'm not that. Yeah, I'm not that comfortable with it. I know that INC Magazine wrote about it, so now I'm saying it. I'm not that comfortable with it just because it'll make people mad at me. So I don't.

[A]

I don't think people are gonna be mad at you. Cause I think people. People see who you are in it. I think people know your journey. I think people get mad when we're like, what does she deserve that for? I think it's very clear why you make that happen.

[B]

And I believe that. The truth is, I believe that people shouldn't work for free. Interns, I pay. I don't believe in anybody working for free. And if you're moving product and you're affecting an outcome honestly, then I believe you should be compensated. So I don't feel guilty about it, but I'm comfortable talking about it. Because this is a business show. Because you've talked about it, because you're running a business, because you want to inspire people and them to aspire to what we're talking about. Because it's important that the industry knows what's going on. Because we're informing a culture. Because people think I'm sitting around like this crazy woman who's had a nervous breakdown talking about chicken salad. Because it's also.

[A]

No, I never did. I always, like. It's not actually that I completely understood your strategy, but I was 100% sure that there was some secret sauce under what you were doing in social. A thousand percent. Because you don't have that much virality by accident. Nobody does.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there has to be something. There has to be something that we are not fully grasping and understanding. Because you're funny. Like, you're shifting product, but it's like, there are lots of people that are funny and shifting product. There's something else there that is actually propelling you over and over and over again. And that's what I was like, what the. What is it?

[B]

Well, here's another thing. I live inside of TikTok with 15 year olds. Now, there are a lot of moms there and I'm in mom talk too. But I'm saying I have peers that walk up to me on the street and they're kids and college students. So it's very unusual to connect with a 55 year old woman and a 15 year old, literally. And so I'm speaking a language that really nobody my age is really speaking. But I'm in there with institutional business knowledge. So I live. It's like being. I'm Tom Hanks in big. I've gone back and I get to play with all the little toys as a kid and tell the grown what the hell everybody wants.

[A]

So it's that. It's the straddle.

[B]

It's the. Do you understand? Yes. I love it.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. It's the straddle.

[B]

I have a home on Instagram too. I have a primary residence there. And that's where the cross body latte drinking moms are. But in TikTok, it's different. So I'm living in YouTube. I live in a lot of different worlds with every age.

[A]

So would you be as successful if you weren't 55? Like, would you be as appealing to all of those brands if you didn't like cross that demographic?

[B]

I don't know. I don't fit into. And I'm not saying I'm so great. I just don't fit into any singular mold. So people are not understanding what it is because it's strange that I walk Sports Illustrated with 25 year olds. You know, there's nobody my age there. But it's not like they're giving me the token grandma role like it's landing because moms are saying thank you for, like, thank you for a not disqualifying us as a group. I could be alienating moms, but I'm not because they're like, thank you for not disqualifying us as a group, but also for being out there and being happy and confident. And my thing is we can all look like crap a lot of the time. That's okay. Every mom. I'm a mom too. I get it. When it's your high school reunion, when it's your Saturday night, turn it out. So on this day, I'm gonna turn it out. But this isn't me every day. I'm gonna tell you all the things I did today and that everybody took three hours to get ready and that, you know, so I feel like it's the connectivity to anybody. All anybody wants is honesty.

[A]

So am I gonna be able to convince you to do your own Bethany brand or is that just off the table for the Bethany brand?

[B]

Listen, someone came to me with a cookware brand and I had an idea that could be branded as Bethany. That's not. There's a couple of food items, there's a hair care company.

[A]

But do you like starting a company from scratch?

[B]

Bethany, that takes too much work. I don't want to do that. I have no interest in doing that. I really do. Then I have to be here for five days a week.

[A]

Yes, you do. Yeah. Literally.

[B]

Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to be in it if it means I have to be in a place for five days a week. 0.0. No way.

[A]

0.0.

[B]

I dropped my beach walk period. The end.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, totally.

[B]

No, I'll tell everybody else what to do and it could still land. So you have any wonderful ideas? But I'll tell you exactly what I will and won't do. I'm not doing the blood, sweat and tears Bethany program.

[A]

So what's next for Bethany?

[B]

These things that I've sort of sprinkled in the Bethany seal is something we're talking about. Retailers are going to have sections with my stuff. The list is growing.

[A]

Like the Bethany seal of approval.

[B]

Yeah, that. You know, the Bethany seal of approval. And like I said, the equity deals that I've invested in. The coffee maker example, like things like that, things that I'm passionate about. There's something in the cannabis space that I find interesting that I love. Things that I'm obsessed with.

[A]

That's just it. Yeah. What do you still aspire to?

[B]

Like one thing I could do like a bucket. Saturday Night Live. Oh.

[A]

I mean, what? That's just a no brainer.

[B]

No, they're like you in. I don't know. I mean, they've talked about me a bunch of times. But Saturday Night Live, it's just like that. And I'd be. I'd be nervous, but like.

[A]

You would be nervous, but you would be good.

[B]

I'd say that. I imagine. I was an intern years ago. I got an internship in nyu.

[A]

You said you worked for Lorne Michaels.

[B]

Well, no, I worked, yes, at Broadway Video and Pictures. But I was an intern. I got an internship at NYU at snl and SNL said they couldn't give me credit, and NYU said they wouldn't let me do it.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I should have just.

[A]

Yeah, you should have just fucked that up.

[B]

I should have pushed through.

[A]

You should have done a. Bethany, you should have started ranting at someone, something.

[B]

I know. I. I didn't. So, anyway, I was almost in the.

[A]

You live and learn.

[B]

Because I care about humor.

[A]

But you maybe. You know what? Like, I still feel like this is gonna. This is coming for you. That feels to me like no brainer.

[B]

Well, anyway. But that's just fun.

[A]

I love that as a fun, cute thing. It's a fun cute. But we gotta have fun, cute things. You're full of things.

[B]

Yeah, it's a fun, cute thing. What about you? What do you still wanna do?

[A]

I mean, so many things, but actually, I just, like, wanna get good at the things that I'm doing right now. I just wrote a book. It was the hardest thing I'd ever really. It's so hard for me, Bethany, I can't even tell you. So I actually enjoy that process of, like, being in a space that I feel less good at because I learned a lot about myself in that process.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. All right, we're gonna do rapid fire.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

Okay, let's go rapid fire. What's the most money you've ever spent on something stupid?

[B]

Define stupid.

[A]

I mean, everything that's not totally necessary.

[B]

I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars and watches. I have a major watch collection. Oh, no. I have a crazy bag collection and watches. But I've called it bags.

[A]

And watches is your thing.

[B]

Yeah. And cars.

[A]

Bags and cars and watches and houses.

[B]

But I'm still. They're not crazy. Like, the houses aren't like $50 million houses. Like, bags, cars, watches and houses. But I don't buy anything. It's not an investment. That's why it's not stupid.

[A]

A bag is not an investment.

[B]

No. No.

[A]

That's what my husband will tell me.

[B]

No. 90.

[A]

Doesn't matter if it's Hermes.

[B]

No, doesn't matter if it's Hermes. But if it's a specific rare one, then it is an Hermes.

[A]

If it's rare to fuck, no. But it's gotta be rare.

[B]

We gotta skins. No. Yeah. And even. No.

[A]

All right, if it's super rare, fine, we'll let you have it. What is a rant that you've gone on or a tirade that you've gone

[B]

on that you regretted saying, cry me a river about Meghan Markle? I Regret.

[A]

You do?

[B]

Yeah. It wasn't necessary to say. It wasn't just talking about, like, what do people think? And exploring conversation. It just became so pointed that it lost the plot. Like, I have talked about decisions that people have made that I've been okay with because it informs. I've talked about the Kardashians, like, decisions as parents, but I've talked about myself and things that I've done and mistakes that I've made or things that I think are bad ideas. There are just things that I've said about people that I regret that didn't need to be said because it wasn't really moving a conversation forward. It just felt like a personal slight. And I don't want that to be what anything I say is, because it's actually not. It's actually not. It's about moments in history where things are happening and choices that people have made made. That's really what it is.

[A]

What is totally off limits for you now?

[B]

Relationship. Who I'm dating. I'm not going to. I will not jeopardize someone else's privacy, which will ultimately ruin my life. I just want to be happy. And I've never, ever been in a relationship with someone who's a public person. So I'm not going to find someone who's. I've never been with someone who's on social media, really. So I am only attracted to people that are private people. So I have to. To real. I'm on reality TV and I have to make sure that they understand that this is a clown show over here, but that my life is different over here.

[A]

What's the most unhinged business pitch that's ever been presented to you?

[B]

It was something with horses, with Secretariat, like the rights to the name of Secretariat, the greatest horse of all time. But there was really no great execution plan. There was really no great execution plan.

[A]

What is the pettiest reason that you've ever turned a deal with?

[B]

I don't think I would turn a deal down for a petty reason. I really just don't.

[A]

It's always for a good reason.

[B]

It's a business reason. Yes. It's not pet. I'm not. I'm not really petty. If you come for me, I'll cut you. But that's not really that petty. That's more cunty. Do you know what I mean? It's more like, yeah, if you. If I don't play. I don't mess with anyone who's not coming for me, but when they do, it's not going to be good.

[A]

God help them. Yeah, there you go babe. Literally. Love you. Thank you, Bethany. Thank you.

[B]

You're so good.

[A]

I love you. Love you. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host Emma Greed executive producer Ashley McShan, Derrick Brown and me, our executive producers from Audacy, Leah Reese, D. Dennis, Asha Saludja, Lauren Legrasso Producer, KK Sublime Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele and Carlos Delgado Social media by Olivia Homan, Kathryn Bale Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney, Florida Ford My team's at the lead company and wme Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meecol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you could DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emma Greed Me.

[B]

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