B (4:22)

Mm. I think both. I think I saw white space and I also was driven by a passion for storytelling and I also had a little girl that I really saw, this sudden dearth of storytelling for women with the complexity that really represented all women. And I just wasn't seeing Hollywood step up and develop those stories. So I decided to do it myself, clearly.

A (4:47)

And you really did do it. So will you just talk a little bit for people that don't know about the genesis of Hallow Sunshine? Like, because you obviously had a production company before that and you decided that you would, you know, turn yourself into a media mogul. So let's talk a little bit about the difference between the two and what made you actually start. What was that white space that you saw?

B (5:07)

Yeah, sure, I. I started my career in Hollywood when I was 14 years old. I did my very first movie. I was one of those lucky lightning strike moments where I went to audition in Nashvill, Tennessee, for a movie and I ended up getting the lead. So it was just one of those rare opportunities, but I was also prepared. Right? So I'd done two years of acting classes and my career just took off from there. I made probably seven movies before I even went to college. I ended up going to Stanford for a year, but I ended up dropping out. And just mainly because I couldn't afford the tuition, I decided to just really throw my shoulder into acting. And I started working a ton of. So for the first, I would say, 20 years of my career, I was an actress, an actress for hire. I didn't really produce, I didn't write anything, I didn't come up with original characters. And then probably when I was about 34. Well, I will say when I was about. When Legally Blind came out, I got a production deal from Universal Studios for three years. They paid for everything and I made zero movies. I was 24 years old. I didn't understand. I also didn't know what stories I wanted to tell. I had a great team. I just, I didn't have intention. And so then when I began, I.

A (6:23)

Mean, you were 24.

B (6:24)

I was 24. I hadn't lived enough of life to understand where the gaps were in the market. I didn't understand my business that well. And so I really, for the next 10 years, I was a mom, I was a working actress, working a really high level with every studio head in town, had great relationships and we're, you know, talking 70 hour weeks and long producing schedules and long marketing schedules. And I just, I showed up and I was a good worker, you know, and I was known as a really good worker. And then when I was about 34, I had this moment that changed everything, which was reading this script. I read this script and it had a guy as a lead and it had two female leads and the women just supported the guy. And it was all these crass jokes and I thought it was awful. And they said. So I called my agent, I said, well, I'm not doing this. This is gonna set women back. And she said, every actress in town wants these two parts. And it was this huge moment for me where I was like, this is what you have to offer. First of all, not just the actresses, but the women in the world. These, this is how you want to showcase women in the world. I was disgusted. I was angry. So I went on a campaign, a listening tour. I went on a listening tour and I called all my studio head friends and said, hey, can I sit down with you? I just want to hear what you're developing for women at your studio and going to see every head of every studio, all seven of them, only one was developing a woman, a female lead in a movie. And they said, they said to me, we have one movie that's starring a woman this year. We can't have two. Okay, yeah, even Though we're.

A (8:13)

And this is not. We're not going back like 50 years here. We're talking 10 years ago.

B (8:17)

This was 2011.

A (8:18)

Right?

B (8:18)

2011. And I was like, wow, this is just some. This is not acceptable. Yeah, it was mind bending.

A (8:26)

But it's interesting to me that you took that as fuel to start something, because I feel like there are so many people that either take what's on the table or they sit with the rejection. Not everybody goes like, well, I can do something with this. And I wonder what you would say to other ambitious women about starting a company.

B (8:48)

Okay. I think this was a moment too, because I did the wrong thing first. First I just complained and I kept illuminating the problem to everybody who would listen. All my really fierce, amazing friends. I would say, well, you know, there's this issue. They're not making up content for us. And it was all this stuff about DVD sales had dropped out of the market and, you know, the cost for development had gone up. And they were like, well, you know, I don't know how to solve. It's a systematic problem.

A (9:17)

Leave it alone.

B (9:18)

Yeah, well. And I complained about it. And then I had this kind of aha moment where I was like, okay, I can either admire the problem, I'm giving it a lot of attention, or I can come up with a solution to fix it. And that was everything for me. So for the next six months, all I did, pen to paper, said, what can I do about it? And also, I'm the one complaining about this problem. I'm gonna. If I think I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and I'm gonna invest in myself because I'm my own best lottery ticket. I know I will pay off.

A (9:53)

You know, you're like, I can make this work.

B (9:55)

Well, I know.

A (9:56)

And were you that certain about it from the beginning? Were you like, I'm gonna build a billion dollar company? Cause I know I can bet on myself.

B (10:02)

No, I never thought I was gonna be a billion dollar, 900 million dollar company. I never, never, never. You didn't. I was like, no. I just knew I was gonna solve a problem. I knew. I read more books than a lot of other people. I knew I read super fast. I had a market advantage.

A (10:15)

So you were much more mission focused. You were like, here's a white space, here's a huge problem. I'm going to solve the problem. Not like, I'm going to build wealth for myself. I'm going to start a media company.

B (10:26)

No, that wasn't my intention, my intention was create more stories for women, create more opportunities for different kinds of women to have the opportunity to tell their story. And then the other part, I haven't really ever talked about this publicly, but it was me sort of wrestling with this fear, fame dynamic.

A (10:44)

Oh, yeah.

B (10:45)

Where I was getting all this attention, but I didn't want any of it. And I thought, how can I take that and use all of that energy that's coming at me and point it towards another woman who is working her ass off and deserves that attention?

A (11:03)

And it really worked, right? I mean, for your little idea to turn into not just this company, but a movement in the entertainment business. Like, there has been a seismic shift. I'm not saying everything has, you know, it's solved and it's all done, but there has been a seismic shift. And I think so much of that is owing to what you did and you being really loud and purposeful about what you were trying to build. Don't you think?

B (11:29)

Well, it's definitely loud. Yeah.

A (11:32)

Because I feel like we all knew you were on a mission. Like anybody that read about hello, sunshine. It wasn't like Reese has started a media company. It was like, here's this giant problem and here's what she's doing to solve it. And it was very clear that there was like, this was a purpose built company. And even as you were like attracting staff and bringing people on, it was like, ooh, ooh, everybody. Everything felt like it was like chess. Like, it was like, this is what we're doing. This is what we set out to do.

B (11:58)

Yeah, well, it was very intentional. I think. Back to your point, I was really clear on the mission.

A (12:03)

Yeah.

B (12:03)

And the mission was also, we were, we were really fueled by this digital transformation. Right. So suddenly everything went to social media platforms, YouTube. I was noticing marketing was shifting on my movies. We'd have completely different marketing meetings and we'd sit in traditional marketing meetings. They did not understand social media. I mean, it was just wildly clear. And I thought, this is a gap I. I can, I can bridge.

A (12:31)

So that wasn't something that was scary to you, like every, you know, because if you start in the business when you're 14, there's a tried and tested way that you've been successful. You actually saw it as an opportunity as, rather than a threat to, to your business.

B (12:42)

Yes. I always look at technology in the future as not like, oh, God, it's going to make me obsolete. I look, I say, how can I harness it and teach other women how to harness it to create my business or push us all. All forward.

A (12:56)

So you're not shaking in your boots at AI now?

B (13:00)

No, I'm pausing because there's some stuff recently that's really. It's.

A (13:05)

Yeah, you know, it's giving us pause.

B (13:07)

It's giving us pause.

A (13:08)

Yeah.

B (13:08)

And we don't have any regulation. And we, we will, we'll get there. There's not a policy around certain things, but I'm not scared.

A (13:15)

Well, there's certain things you can't fight.

B (13:17)

Right.

A (13:17)

I feel like it's like, how do we embrace it? How do we come together? How do we. One and one has got to equal three at some point. But it's not going to work to shun what's happening.

B (13:27)

Well, also, when streaming started, it was really clear that the best content on streaming was long form television. Lot of shows binging and a lot of. I think traditional movie stars were reticent to go into a new format because we all came up hearing, don't do TV, don't do TV. TVs are the second. You know, that's our.

A (13:49)

It's like a step down.

B (13:50)

Yeah, it's a step down. Once you go to tv, you'll never come back to movies. I was like, you know what? No, I don't agree. I think we're all moving towards a new reality. I was also watching my teenage children not go to the movies anymore.

A (14:05)

That'll show you. You have to look at those patterns and what's happening. I'm like, my kids don't even know where the TV is at home. They live on a device. They live on YouTube.

B (14:14)

Yeah, we have one TV in our house. We used to have one in every room.

A (14:18)

Totally. And you wanted a big tv. Where I come from, it was like, we want a giant thing that takes up the whole room. Now it's like, no, thank you.

B (14:25)

No thank you.

A (14:25)

Which is kind of lovely for the house. Yeah, it's kind of nice, kind of romantic.

B (14:28)

Better lines.

A (14:29)

It's really, really true. You have such a. Like this. Well, this is how I see you. But you have such a personality type that is synonymous with you. I said, America's sweetheart. But you kind of look at you and you're like, this woman is so wonderful and so, so sweet and so sort of the earth. So when you made this transition, do you think people took you seriously? Like, do you think people saw you coming?

B (14:54)

No, I think people knew I was a hard worker. But I don't think, and I will tell you, it wasn't successful right out of the gate.

A (15:03)

Talk about that. Please tell me, tell me more.

B (15:05)

When I started the company, I was in this like little almost rundown office building because I was. And I had two employees.

A (15:13)

You really, you self funded from the beginning. So it was actually you were truly taking a bet on yourself with your own money.

B (15:19)

Yep. And I decided, I had this producing partner and we decided to option two books. Our first two books were Wild and Gone Girl and so one.

A (15:31)

They were your first two books? Yes. Shut up.

B (15:33)

And I read it in galleys before I was ever pow, pow. But they just both hit number one probably six months later. That's crazy. And I thought, oh crap.

A (15:41)

Yeah, I'm really fucking good at. I would have been like, yep, that's me.

B (15:47)

But then I had to turn them into movies. And that's a whole other thing. It's like, it's great to have potential. It's great to get that star, but what are you going to do with that? So I knew I had to execute at a very, very high level. And so then we did. We executed a very high level. And we got three Oscar nominations for three different women. It made the combined $600 million in box office. And I could not keep the lights on in my company. Oh, even post Big Little Lies. I was doing Big Little Lies and I was like, the numbers aren't mathing out here. I can't have. So we went up to four employees. I wanted to give them all health insurance. I wanted to make sure it was a great working experience for them. And I'm not talking. I had fancy offices. I had three offices in Beverly Hills. I mean, that's a nice area, but they weren't nice by any means. And I. It just wasn't mapping out.

A (16:42)

And what was that? Because I wanted to talk to you about the fact that you brought a c. A CEO into your company from the beginning, which again, a lot of people feel like they have to. They started a company, they founded something, they need to be the CEO. But you didn't do that. So tell. Talk to me a little bit about that timing. You're. You're making all of these waves. You're doing the important work. You're actually meeting your mission and your purpose, but you're not making any money. And that bothered you, obviously, because again, for some people they're like, well, as long as I get this piece over here, that doesn't matter.

B (17:11)

Yeah. No, I was like, wait. So, so then I dug in again and I met with my friend who ran a venture fund and he And I started talking about it, and he was like, well, what do you own of these shows? I was like, nothing. And he said, well, how do you get to ownership? And I said, well, that's the magic key. You know, actors historically don't own any of their characters. I don't own Elle Woods. I don't own Tracy Flick. I don't own any of these characters. And so he said, okay, well, let's put our heads down and feel like this is a really interesting time where studios, streaming studios, need you more than we need them. And I said, you're right. He said, I think we could drive some really crazy deals. And so he and I got together and put together a business plan. And I was like, really? I'm going to ask them for these things that are breaking pressure. And he was like, yeah, you are. You're you. And you bring. Now you have social media followers. You're going to bring this marketing component, too. You have. You're not the average producer, so you're not going to get the average producer deal.

A (18:12)

Could you absorb that? Could you take that in and go like, yeah, I'm going to run with that?

B (18:15)

What he said, I mean, I didn't believe it would happen, but I was like, I'll die trying. Yeah, that's. You know, why not. Why not ask? All they can say is no, and then I won't go work for them. I'll take it. The other advantage I had was I would get a book, and I had a real good taste for what would be popular, not what would make you smarter or whatever.

A (18:40)

Where'd you get that from?

B (18:42)

Reading so many books as a child, so many books as a young adult, so many books as a young woman and a mom, that I was like, that one's gonna be really popular. I just know. So we had this. It was like this flywheel where I could pick a book, take, attach a piece of talent. Let's just see, like, little fires everywhere. I said, call Kerry Washington and say, I've always wanted to work with you. You and I are gonna be producers. We're gonna star in it together, and we're gonna work for ourselves, and we're gonna drive this, like, really great producing team.

A (19:10)

And she's like, yes, please. Thank you.

B (19:11)

She was like, let's do it. Let's do it.

A (19:14)

Yeah.

B (19:14)

And so then we go to market, we call these seven studios, and we say, which one of you wants it? And it's a bidding war. So we'd say, okay. And also, you're gonna break precedent and we're gonna have terms that you've never agreed to before. And that's what we did.

A (19:30)

And it just.

B (19:31)

We did it again. And then we did it again. And we did it again. And we created enterprise value for this company because we're building a library. I mean, at the same time as building the social media and the brand and brand partnerships with different great blue chip brands.

A (19:48)

Is that indicative of what business Reese is like? Like somebody that isn't fearful and unashamedly goes after what she wants.

B (19:57)

I'll tell you, I know what I know, and I know what I don't know. And I'm really. I have zero ego about saying, I'm gonna stop you. I don't know what you're talking about. Can you explain it to me?

A (20:07)

So important. So I. I feel like, again, a lot of women don't feel comfortable to do that. And I think it's one of the things that we have to learn and that it's all right if you don't know. And trying to fake it is not helpful to anyone.

B (20:22)

Don't fake it. You're going to get yourself in deep mud.

A (20:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (20:26)

Deep mud. And so I would turn to my CEO, Sarah Hardin, and I'd go, oh.

A (20:30)

I love Sarah Harden. Is that Sarah Harden?

B (20:32)

Yeah.

A (20:33)

She's a G. And she had sold.

B (20:35)

All these digital businesses that had male founders. And this was the first time she'd been approached by a woman who was like, I want to do what you just did for seven different companies.

A (20:44)

Let's do that. Yeah.

B (20:45)

And she was like, great. I love to read. I love storytelling. But she kind of coached me for the first two years of our company. I didn't know anything. I did not go to business school.

A (20:57)

How smart of you to bring somebody in that did. Because I remember reading this amazing thing, and I don't remember if it was Charlie Munger or I think it was Charlie, but it was like, how are you guys so good at finding the right people to run your companies? And he said, what? We look for someone who's done exactly the same job somewhere else and been wildly successful.

B (21:19)

Yeah.

A (21:19)

I'm like, yeah, duh. It sounds so simple. But again, it's like if you want to be successful. And I love this fact that you brought people in that you could learn from. Right. She taught you what you didn't know, and you were smart enough to know what you didn't know. And so it says a lot about you as a person that you can surround yourself with people like that, but you don't feel threatened.

B (21:38)

Right. And she didn't feel threatened by me. And we. We had a real nice match of skillset. I'm a real creative, so I can sprinkle magic on things. Or I'm an enthusiast too. Like you.

A (21:49)

I can tell. Yes, Totally. You have to be.

B (21:52)

You're supposed to sell ice to Eskimos, Emma.

A (21:55)

I like to think so. Rhys.

B (21:56)

I'm like, seriously, I don't know what's happening, what you're selling me, but I'm buying.

A (22:00)

I'm like, let's do it. What are we. Let's just do it. Yes, let's do it. Let's do it.

B (22:05)

But I'm that way. And Sarah's like, okay, we can accomplish one of those five ideas, Rhys. But we're not gonna do all five this week. Yeah, okay, Fair. Because my brain just gets excited about the possibility.

A (22:20)

Of course.

B (22:20)

And so.

A (22:21)

But you need somebody there to talk to you about business readiness. And a business can only do great things when it's ready to do those great things.

B (22:29)

Right?

A (22:29)

That's right. So you've got to be. You know, you can throw all the ideas you want out, but the acceptance rate is not always going to be there. And so it's so important to have that person beside you and to know you need that person besides. So that they can say, it's time for this thing now. That's great. But maybe park it for a second.

B (22:45)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's good. I needed her to keep the trains on the tracks and then also get me to slow down.

A (22:52)

Slow it down.

B (22:53)

Do one thing well, then we're gonna add on another. Then she always say, crawl, walk, run.

A (22:59)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (23:00)

Which was really helpful.

A (23:01)

It's like a little traffic light system.

B (23:02)

Because I want to bolt. Yeah. Forever fate.

A (23:06)

Which I just love about you. Foreign. I've always believed that the soul of a neighborhood isn't in the buildings or the skyline. It's in the people. The way your barista remembers your coffee order. The neighbour who waves every morning. The local bakery that knows your kid's favorite muffin. That's what makes a place feel like home for me. Our neighborhood is like this living scrapbook of memories. There's the farmer's market that we visit every Sunday morning. The park where my kids learn to ride their bikes. And the ice cream store where we visit after school to celebrate milestones. Big or small, it's not fancy. It's familiar. It's ours. And that's the beauty of community. Right? It's built through Those small acts of connection, a wave, a shared meal, a quick, how's your day? That turns into a friendship. It's this invisible thread that ties us all together, even in business. 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B (28:45)

Okay, well, timing is everything. As you know, market shift valuations were really high in 21, it was a really crazy time. Media companies had a frothiness about them and I thought, this is a good time to bring on a partner. And so we really went into that process. First of all, let me say I was so grateful for my team because I had this vision. But it didn't work if I didn't have world class executives around me. And I got these women to leave their cushy corporate jobs to do something entrepreneurial. And I said, I'm going to give you equity. And they didn't know what that meant. That could be a zero.

A (29:25)

Quite often is.

B (29:26)

I know.

A (29:27)

More often than not. But not. Thank you, La.

B (29:31)

No. And it. And so when we got to the process, another. I'm all about intention, right. And knowing what I wanted from that process. I wanted the best result for my employees, my partners in this, who had believed in my vision and walked with me towards the school. And then I also wanted women in the world to know that their stories mattered and they are valuable. Women's stories are valuable.

A (29:59)

Mission accomplished.

B (30:00)

And that had never really been emphasized in my lifetime.

A (30:07)

I mean, it really was.

B (30:08)

It makes me want to cry.

A (30:09)

Yeah, I could cry because I feel like there's one thing to set out to try to do something, it's another thing to do it. It's another thing to do it and bring everyone along with you. It's another thing to do it, bring everyone along with you, make them a load of money at the same time. And so I think kudos to you, Rhys, because you've done something extraordinary with that company. And I've been, you know, in my research, reading a lot about you the last, the last week or so and I think it's really interesting because obviously, as you said, you sold at the top of the market. There's been a lot of news about your and some comments that have been made there. And I think it's kind of interesting because again, you did what was right for you and for your partners and those women that left those Kushti jobs.

B (30:55)

I think about little me starting in this business and going, okay, well, the only opportunity really was to be an actress, but I probably would be more suited to be a producer or a writer or a director.

A (31:05)

Why?

B (31:05)

So I'm a team builder and I'm not an individual, you know, I'm more of a, like, let's all get together and mix this. And that wasn't something that was possible then. Yeah, in 1990, when I started, nobody was talking about female directors. There were no female. There were like, three female screenwriters that were successful. When I started in the business, I think it was, like, 2% of films were directed by women.

A (31:31)

Yeah. I don't think you can underestimate that, because, again, there's so much talk about it now, but it was a very different time then. And it's. Again, so much credit has to go to you. But I do think what I love.

B (31:44)

And Shonda and Mindy.

A (31:45)

But it's important. You know, you built this company and you sold the company, and I just wonder what that feels like.

B (31:53)

Okay. It feels really good.

A (31:56)

It does.

B (31:56)

It felt like I was able to do something outside the Hollywood system that had historically been closed door to a lot of different people. So if you tried to have ownership, it was a no. If you tried to be a woman in charge, it was a no. If you were a person of color, forget it. So it just felt like it was breaking a lot of barriers. And I was also saying there's a new way to do things. You can also look at things from a different vantage point and use things that you have inherently that maybe, like, I think of fame as, like, this. It's not my favorite part of my life, but I could use it towards my advantage.

A (32:32)

And you have to. Yeah, yeah. It made so much sense. Is there any part of you that wishes that you'd kept full control of the company?

B (32:41)

No. I'm really happy with my partnership there. I'm really happy. I've had a great. It's been four years now of still working there and still operating, and it's just been. I've learned even more after selling it.

A (32:55)

What do you think you've learned since selling the company?

B (32:59)

Well, definitely reporting structures and all that stuff that I didn't understand. And I'm the only person sitting in the board meeting going, when they put up the P and L, I'm like, my brain takes a little nap back. I'm gonna just stare at the ceiling for a second. And I know that makes me sound like a ditz, but I just know where I'm not additive. And I think one of the best things my friend Sarah Blakely always says is, like, don't. Don't try to be something you're not. She tried to move into it. Right? Yeah. Don't. Yeah, they're not. They didn't hire me to be the cfo. I'm not there to crunch numbers.

A (33:38)

Absolutely not. And you don't need to be all things. Like, that's what I learned, I think, so early in my business journey because I would walk into these board meetings and I'd feel like everything was on me. It's like, no, that's why you have a cfo. That's why you have a data person. Like, I am not that. And it's so important to learn to lean into your strengths. And I think that all of the great business leaders we know, they happen to be really good at a handful of things, and the rest you have to outsource. It's totally fine.

B (34:06)

But didn't you find as you built your companies, you do start to absorb it, like as osmosis. You sit in enough meetings now. I feel completely. I could sit in your board meeting and know exactly what I'd ask. And it's taken me time, but now I feel like there's this feeling of you can't get in there. Right. If you didn't go to business school, you can't start a business and you're never gonna be successful and you're never gonna sell it. And it's just. That's just.

A (34:34)

It's just not true. It's just not true. Well, that's partly one of the reasons.

B (34:38)

Sarah Blakely, Whitney Wolfhard, and myself, we were all looking at each other one day and we were at one of these conferences. You know, you were probably there too. And we just sat there and we were like, did you go to business school? She's like, no. Did you go to business school?

A (34:50)

No. Well, you know what it does, it gives you. Listen, I think we all learn really differently. I am, like, super dyslexic, and I learn very specifically because of that. And so I think that there's all different routes to take. And one of the main reasons I wanted to start this podcast is to show some of those ways and actually to show the exceptionality that comes from different people and different ways of thinking, because it takes all sorts. And so I really just enjoy that what you bring is going to be very different to what I bring and where there's room for all of it.

B (35:24)

Yeah. And I think we need people who are out, out of the box thinkers.

A (35:28)

Yeah, we do.

B (35:29)

To insert themselves in different ways. And, you know, and if you look around your company and you don't have an out of the box thinker, you're kind of at a disadvantage.

A (35:37)

Oh, you sure are at a disadvantage. So we had Tracee Ellis Ross on this show.

B (35:41)

Oh, I know.

A (35:42)

What a lot. I mean, she spoke so highly of you. She said that you give the best money advice. So I was apparently. So I was like, she'd Ask. I'm gonna ask her.

B (35:51)

I am called the treasurer in some groups. You are.

A (35:54)

I'm like, yes. Let's hear more about that.

B (35:56)

How are we making revenue, and how are we allocating it?

A (35:59)

So what's the one thing that every woman needs to know about money, do you think?

B (36:03)

Oh, my God, where do I start? One thing.

A (36:05)

Well, go on, give us it. Oh, I'm doing well.

B (36:07)

First of all, I learned about money from doing things wrong.

A (36:11)

Yes.

B (36:13)

I don't know a woman, Emma. I do not know a woman who doesn't have a disaster financial story in her past. Whether it's her. Her best friend, her sister, her mom, her grandma, her auntie. She lost all her money, or she got divorced and she got stuck with the bill or whatever. Financial debt. So much debt. And so I listen to every podcast on finances. I am so interested in financial wellness for women. And just also, a lot of what we learn is one course, three days in high school. We're lucky if you get three months.

A (36:50)

Yeah.

B (36:51)

And that was the end of my financial learning. And then I became this woman. I was making money, and I was a young mom, and I did not save correctly. I'm in. Fine. I'm fine.

A (37:04)

What do you mean you're fine? You're not like, I'm fine.

B (37:05)

I'm great.

A (37:06)

You're just like, are you not rolling in it, like, now? Like, just.

B (37:09)

I did invest properly. I'm not saying that it wasn't. I'm completely fine, and I did well, but I could have done amazing if I had learned a few things, and a lot of them are mindset.

A (37:23)

Right.

B (37:24)

About saving, about the steadiness of the stock market and index funds and diversifying your portfolio and making sure that you're looking at treasuries and you're looking at bonds and yields and things that are pretty simple. If somebody says them to you in a. Like, if you're a visual person, you see a visual chart. I'm a visual person. So every time I talk to people about finances, you get it laid out. I need it laid out. And I want cute colors.

A (37:50)

Yes.

B (37:50)

I'm just being honest.

A (37:52)

Notes.

B (37:54)

I want a pleasing palette and a pie chart. Thanks.

A (37:57)

Damn right. We know what your business managers are doing. Making this very aesthetically pleasing presentation.

B (38:04)

Like, can somebody do the pie chart for Reese?

A (38:06)

But I love that you say that because it is all pretty simple. But again, we're not always having those conversations and sharing the information. What's the best piece of money advice.

B (38:14)

You think you've been given don't get into debt. Do everything you can to not get into debt and pay off those credit cards or don't spend the money like it's yours. It's not yours. Girlfriend.

A (38:27)

Yeah.

B (38:28)

And that was a really good piece of advice. Don't ever let somebody control you with money. Somebody says, I'll take care of it and I'll take care of you and I'll take care of this. That person could leave. That person can hurt you. You always keep your job. Your job is your life insurance. My mom used to always say that to me. Oh. And my mom went through some tough stuff in a marriage with finances. Really tough stuff. And so did my grandma. Not in the marriage, but in, like, a family structure. I have this past of women not being taken care of financially. And so I think me too. Right. And it, as a little girl scars you. Like, literally, it's living inside me so, so deeply. And that's why I have a passion for helping women understand and also demystifying it, you know?

A (39:19)

Yeah. I feel like the demystifying piece is really, really important. Do you. Are you the type of person that looks after everything yourself, or have you kind of outsourced all of that to a team at this point?

B (39:28)

I have outsourcing, but there's frequent check ins, weekly.

A (39:32)

I'm the same. I like to have enough of it. You know, it's like one hand's on it all the time. Like, I'm happy to let the experts be expert in, but I need to, like, I need it there.

B (39:42)

Yes. Yeah, I need it there. And then I also need checks and balances. I need to diversify things so that everything's not in one investment or one savings account.

A (39:53)

Yeah, but that's it.

B (39:54)

That's what I did.

A (39:55)

I think that comes from your upbringing. It's like if nobody teaches you that, you don't know, and you're just like, okay, the money sits all here and it's safe. But it's like, it might be safe, but it's not growing. It's not doing anything for you.

B (40:07)

Right, right. And most people don't live in a way that savings is even part of their life. Okay. So I'm very realistic about that.

A (40:14)

Yes. You have to be.

B (40:15)

With my mom and my grandma always saying to me, I don't have any savings. You know, they did have. My mom has retirement because she worked her whole life doing three and four jobs, including being in the military and being a nurse and working at a state university. But you have to think ahead, and you have to think about saving as helping your future self.

A (40:36)

Oh, yes, absolutely.

B (40:38)

What you don't spend today, you're saving for your future self. You're saving for 65 year old Emma who doesn't want to have to worry about the gas bill.

A (40:47)

Yes. Yes.

B (40:49)

Yeah, I want to relax as an old lady.

A (40:51)

Yeah, me too. Eventually, at some point, no, I want.

B (40:54)

To have a glass of wine and sit on a porch.

A (40:56)

A porch. I want to come on that porch.

B (40:59)

We're just going to sit there and tell our stories, talk shit about all the life. You know, we're going to travel where we want to go. Oh, and our kids are joyful. Oh my God. We're going to have the best time.

A (41:09)

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B (45:30)

I wasn't always a leader. I was part of a group. I never in high school ran for student office. I never wanted to be the person who raised their hand to run anything.

A (45:38)

That's crazy because I think of you so as like head of the school student president.

B (45:43)

No, that's a character I played in a movie once.

A (45:45)

Oh damn. Is that where I got that from?

B (45:49)

I am not Tracy Plex. Not at all. So when my company came around, I'd had a lot of group Dynamics. Filmmaking is a collaborative art. So we work with groups of 150 to 200 people per movie, and we're all working in concerts with the same idea. And so I knew when I started my company I wanted to have that same feeling, but I knew I had to be the director and the director, the most successful directors I've ever worked with, have very clear vision. They also don't micromanage people who are very good at their jobs. So you hire the best and let them do their thing, but keep reminding people, core values, core values. So it's really important when you begin your company to do that core values exercise. Ours at Hilsenstein are optimism, humor, storytelling, a do it yourself culture where nobody's above any one thing or below any one thing. It's not hierarchical. And so they're defined, and we can always go back and they're on the wall. So in case you forget, they're right there. I think one thing I always say, and I said this to my little kids, it came from motherhood. And you know when you're, like, about to cross the street with your kids and you're like, okay, walk quickly directly to the door of the grocery store. We're not wandering around. We're not walking in circles. We're not wandering off. Walk directly. And so I started saying to my kids when they were little, walk with purpose in the direction you're going. And so when I started the company, I extrapolated that out to walk with purpose. Right. We're walking towards a purpose of greater storytelling for women, greater recognition for female filmmakers and artists and authors. But also, you start to notice people walk in the same direction with you.

A (47:36)

Oh, yeah.

B (47:37)

Especially when you have purpose and especially.

A (47:38)

When you have that level of clarity. Because I think one of the biggest jobs that you have as a CEO is to constantly reinforce those values. Right. It's like, you know, as companies invariably do, hopefully they get bigger, more people come on board, and you need to be that beacon that tells everybody where we're going. But I heard you. Well, maybe I've read in an article that you say you have a bit of a problem with the word power. And when I speak to you, it's so clear that you are incredibly powerful and incredibly directional. Do you still have that in you?

B (48:11)

Power is just a hard word for me to handle, because I think for years in Hollywood, I watched the abuse of power.

A (48:19)

Oh, yeah.

B (48:20)

And power corrupting. And also people assuming power when they hadn't really done the work to have the power. And I watched A lot of women defer to powerful individuals that didn't really know what they were doing or talking about. So it's hard. Power feels like an empty word to me, I think.

A (48:41)

Are you more comfortable with leadership?

B (48:42)

Leadership is a better word. Yeah. I think we have a lot of great leadership at hello, Sunshine.

A (48:49)

Starting with you.

B (48:51)

Starting with me. But, yeah, I hired a really good.

A (48:55)

Well, because great leaders don't stay around. Not a great leader. So you have to be. Exactly. I'm saying that you are. Well, because you wouldn't have that many incredible people in that company if it wasn't super solid at the top.

B (49:07)

Yeah. And I'm. And I'm very. I recognize their efforts, and I really try, and I hope I do a good job of this, of constantly telling them I appreciate them, and I appreciate their efforts, even if something doesn't work the right way. I also appreciate when people take accountability for mistakes. I appreciate when people don't triangulate at a company or talk about another person, that we work together on problems. But, Emma, I have learned an entire world of information in nine years that I've been doing this.

A (49:39)

Have you.

B (49:41)

And I.

A (49:41)

Have you failed?

B (49:42)

Have I failed?

A (49:43)

Yeah.

B (49:43)

Well, I would say, you know, when I had the company and I'd done. I had three Oscar nominations and eight Emmys for Big Little Lies, and I couldn't do anything but break even. That was a fail. And I thought, there's something wrong here. That's when I called my friend, and he helped me come up with a business plan, and that's when I hired Sarah Harded. But have we had fails? Sure. We've had some stuff inside the company that I feel like we tried things didn't work.

A (50:12)

Just didn't work.

B (50:13)

Certain verticals were doing really well five years ago, not doing as well right now. That's okay. I'd rather us try. But I'm really proud of the brand that we've built because I think it stands for something, and consumers know what it means.

A (50:27)

Oh, yes, I do.

B (50:28)

You say, hello, Sunshine. People like. I know what that is.

A (50:30)

Yeah.

B (50:30)

I mean, I wouldn't say everybody, but I would know. It's interesting. I went and spoke at a business school last year, and all the young women ran up to me, and they were like, oh, my God, I love your company. I love your company. And all the guys were still sitting down. They were like, what company? She was an actress.

A (50:50)

And you were like.

B (50:51)

And they were like, you don't know about her company. But a lot of guys don't know about hello, sunshine.

A (50:56)

Well, in fairness, it. It wasn't made for them.

B (51:00)

Yeah, it wasn't.

A (51:01)

They have everything else.

B (51:02)

That's true. But women consume more media than men. Women control more consumer spending. And I thought, we need to do better for women. They need to have better offerings and see themselves in movies and television shows. The other unexpected outcome of the company that I really didn't know would happen is the financial gain for the authors. And that is a big touchstone for me because I've gotten letters sent, text messages will be like a picture of a key. And I'll say, what is that, honey? And she'll say, I was able to pay off my mortgage and buy this. I own my own home now.

A (51:40)

Game over.

B (51:41)

No one sent me an acceptance letter to a college. Said I paid for my son to go to college. He's the first kid in my. My family go to college.

A (51:49)

We're going to need more tissues. I mean, is there anything that could make you more proud and happy? I mean, surely not.

B (51:56)

No, no, no.

A (51:59)

Absolutely not.

B (52:00)

And these people are so deserving and, you know, and the Hellstone Shine has sold over $800 million of books. $800 million of books.

A (52:09)

I don't even know where to go.

B (52:10)

We don't even make any money off the book sales. What? We don't make any money off the books.

A (52:15)

We just. Do you want a tissue? No, no, she's good. I'm not gonna cry anymore. Done crying.

B (52:21)

Wait a minute.

A (52:22)

What do you mean?

B (52:22)

You still like hair? Wait a minute. What do you mean? You.

A (52:25)

You don't make any money off the books?

B (52:26)

The book sales? No. So if we auction the book and turn it into a movie, Obviously we.

A (52:31)

Do, but I always imagined that you. That there'd be some kind of reciprocal backend royalty.

B (52:39)

No, we just market them and we pick. I mean, it's a big deal, the whole process, picking 12 books a year. And we market them, and our whole team is behind it. And we have live events and we get people together and book clubs. And my big vision was, how do we take the book club out of your grandma's living room?

A (52:59)

Oh, yeah, you sure did it.

B (53:02)

Because there's this great quote by this guy who just won the Pulitzer. His name is Percival Everett. And he said, I think the most subversive thing you can do right now is belong to a book club because you're socializing ideas.

A (53:15)

Yeah, totally. Absolutely. I mean, listen, I'm a huge reader, and it is probably, you know, it's up there with my biggest pleasures in life. Together.

B (53:25)

What do you read? I'm so curious.

A (53:26)

I read so much. The problem with me is that right now I'm reading on tyranny. So let's just. But I go back. I go back to things, like, over and over again. But I'm kind of eclectic in my book taste. And, you know, I just feel like it's so good for the world that you do that, that you give this, like, other option to all the media and all the noise that's out there, because there's something that's so good for us about when you can, like, dive into prose and get your head into something that you hold in your hands. I don't know.

B (54:02)

It's good for your mental health.

A (54:03)

It's good for everything, right?

B (54:05)

It's good for your memory. It's good to change your neurological system just right before bed.

A (54:10)

It's good for your family. Like, I have reading time in my home, and it's like, qu? With those 1, 2, 3, 4 kids?

B (54:17)

Oh, my God.

A (54:17)

But they love it. And it's like, you're together, but you don't have to talk to them. Shallah.

B (54:22)

I loved reading to my kids when they were little.

A (54:25)

It's the sweetest.

B (54:26)

And my grandmother read to me, and it was just. It was a big, important, cozy time in my life.

A (54:35)

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B (58:51)

I want people to know that this didn't happen when I was 21 or 22. Right out of college, it took a long time to figure out how I was gonna take all this knowledge about my business and all the relationships I've built and pivot into something that was more entrepreneurial. That I had an opportunity to start a company at 25 and I didn't know what I was doing. So sometimes the best things that happen in your life and when you get to boss up is when you've actually done the hard work of being every version of every person on set or in your business. You need to know your business inside and out. You need to know how it makes money, how it loses money, why you're valuable, why you're not valuable, how you can add value. If your business is taking a dip, you better know why. Where is the future of your business? Where's it going? So I read a ton and I try to keep up. Right now I'm just buried in AI going, what's happening? And I'm talking to people and I'm meeting people who are tons of startups.

A (59:54)

Around AI, but you're going out of your way to immerse yourself so that you can understand and bring that into your business.

B (60:00)

Yeah, bring it into my. Well, bring it into my business and also help bridge the gap for people, whether that's for consumers or for my like minded girlfriends who are their own businesses. We're all sitting here going, okay, what are best practices? Which companies are you using? How do we protect ourselves? Okay, well, how do we harness this for the greater good? How do we do this ethically without putting real artists out of work?

A (60:25)

It feels like you're still super ambitious. Are you?

B (60:30)

I don't know how to not be ambitious. It's a big part of my identity.

A (60:37)

How about you?

B (60:38)

Same? Yeah, same. Could you stop?

A (60:43)

No. I feel like when we're 65 and on that porch, we'll be cooking something, you know, it'll still be going.

B (60:49)

We'll Be like, inventing the new supplement or something.

A (60:52)

Totally. That people need.

B (60:53)

Yeah.

A (60:54)

Like solving all our ailments. No. And I feel like that's part of, you know, it's so much part of my identity at this point. And I look at you, and I feel like once you've done something, you know, you've proven to yourself that you can see a problem, you can solve a problem, you can make things so good for everybody around you. Like, why would you not look at other things? Why would you not continue to be expansive? Like, it might be in a different way. It might not necessarily be another company, but you are someone who has really made a big difference. And I don't understand why you would not want to do that again.

B (61:32)

Yeah. I also think sometimes there's a bigger, higher purpose to you being that person. You are who you are here. You are meant to be this person right now. You're meant to be this woman that people look up to and really listen to, and you're fulfilling part of your life purpose. And I think if something else comes my way or I know about it or like, I just wrote my first thriller. I never thought I'd write a book.

A (62:01)

I can't believe this. They literally told me. I feel like it was just, like, swooped in there at the last minute. It's called Gone Before Goodbye.

B (62:09)

Right. Gone Before Goodbye.

A (62:10)

Is this your first book?

B (62:11)

Yeah, it's my first book.

A (62:13)

Exciting.

B (62:14)

And again, partnering with a master, Harlan Coben, who is just incredible thriller writer who's written 90 million. Like, sold over 90 million books.

A (62:23)

What made you want to pivot again? First of all, 90 million books.

B (62:26)

He's sold so many books. Wow. And he's really big in so many. The book is being published in 22 different countries. That's novel. And they sent me all the covers. I was like, what? But I'm really proud of it. And it has a great woman at the center of it who is. Of course it does kind of re. I think it's reinventing the thriller genre and putting, like, why isn't there a female James Bond or Jason Bourne?

A (62:51)

No.

B (62:51)

Can you think of one? I'm sure there is, but I thought international world and this woman who has this really distinct skill set. And I thought, I've always just come in to be in someone else's vision. Right. My whole creative life. And I thought, what if I build the whole world?

A (63:10)

What if you did?

B (63:10)

Yeah, what if I did?

A (63:13)

I mean, I'm real. You're gonna try.

B (63:15)

We'll see.

A (63:16)

I mean, incredible. It really, really is incredible what you've done and what you've built. And I feel like you will inspire an entire generation to think that they can actually do something really, really meaningful and have it make the difference in so many people's lives. Because when I think about what you've done, that's the most impressive part of it. That actually, it's touched so many people, and you've done it with grace and with intention, and you've touched people. You've entertained us while you're doing it. You sold it, you made the money. I mean, it's just like so many great things. But the best part about it is that people will watch you and go, I could do that.

B (63:59)

I hope so. I hope there's so many more. Hello, sunshines. I really want some little girl right now to be hearing this podcast and go, I can do that. If Reese can do that, I can do that.

A (64:11)

Oh, she will. A million percent.

B (64:13)

I'm so happy.

A (64:14)

I love that you're here. Thank you so much.

B (64:16)

This has been so nice. It's.

A (64:17)

Thank you.

B (64:17)

Heaven.

A (64:18)

Like heaven to speak to you because you're the least disappointing person on the planet.

B (64:24)

Wait, do you have disappointing people on your podcast?

A (64:26)

Well, you know, you run into them every now and again.

B (64:28)

I'm not.

A (64:30)

Maybe not on A Spy with Emma Greed, but, you know, not everybody is as cute and sweet as those people are.

B (64:35)

To interview Spain people, you're doing a great job. Because it's also a different skill.

A (64:39)

Oh, it's a totally different skill. Well, they hate me because I don't do any of what's on their cards. They're like, that's not what you're supposed to say. All right, let's move on to rapid fire. What is the first thing you do when you wake up?

B (64:50)

Feed the dog and then make coffee and then wake up my son for school.

A (64:55)

In that order. Yes.

B (64:56)

I love that.

A (64:57)

Last thing you do before you go to bed.

B (64:59)

Kiss my son goodnight and take a bath and then go to bed. And I read. I read in the bath.

A (65:05)

You read in the bath?

B (65:06)

Or I listen to podcasts.

A (65:08)

What podcast are you listening to?

B (65:09)

Rhys.

A (65:13)

What are you currently aspiring to in your business life to help women.

B (65:19)

Bridge this technology gap? We're in a really interesting topic. I want to help women bridge the gap.

A (65:24)

I think that's a great and very noble course. And what about in your personal life?

B (65:29)

To have hobbies that I don't turn into businesses.

A (65:34)

Okay, good luck. I want to know what. What kind of hobby are you going to have?

B (65:39)

Well, right now I make chocolates.

A (65:41)

Oh, that's good.

B (65:42)

It's really fun.

A (65:44)

Are we packaging these chocolates? Are they.

B (65:45)

Listen, did I just say Now Emma's trying to turn it off.

A (65:50)

Okay. Sorry. I'm just doing it, basically. All right, we'll put him in a glass shelf with a ribbon or something. I mean, you're in Nashville. You gotta.

B (65:57)

It's really fun.

A (65:58)

No, amazing. What is a book that changed your life?

B (66:01)

So many books changed my. The Measure of Our Success by Marian Wright Edelman. It's a beautiful book. And she was this activist who marched with Martin Luther King and she started the children's defense. She's probably the foremost advocate for children's rights in America. And she wrote this letter to her sons on their 18th birthday about how to be a good person. Check it out. It's powerful.

A (66:25)

Immediately gonna check that out.

B (66:26)

Yeah.

A (66:27)

What is something that you valued when you started out that you no longer.

B (66:31)

Value other people's acceptance? I mean, it's nice. It's nice when people are rooting for you, but it's okay if they're not.

A (66:39)

And what is something that you value deeply now that you didn't when you.

B (66:43)

First started understanding other people's intentions?

A (66:47)

Thank you, my darling. This was excellent. You're the best.

B (66:51)

Oh, that was fun. Thank you, Emma.

A (66:58)

If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddy Sprung Keyser, Leah Rees Dennis, Asha Salouja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video product production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at the lead company and wme. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meekol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emma Greed me. Look, we get it. You can hardly go anywhere or do anything these days without hearing AI this or AI that. And if you're like most people when it comes to AI, you're impressed but have a few concerns. But what if AI was used not as a tool to replace people, but as a way to help understand people better? AI from SurveyMonkey is designed to do just that. From crafting the perfect survey, which is harder than you might think, to analysis that digs deep, finds patterns and surfaces, trends quickly. SurveyMonkey's powerful suite of AI capabilities makes it faster and easier than ever before to get insight from real people, helping you make confident decisions for your business. Try it today@surveymonkey.com Emma.