Love, Family and Business: How To Work With a Partner with Jens Grede

Summary

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Aspire with Emma Grede

Episode: Love, Family, and Business: How to Work with a Partner (Guest: Jens Grede)

Date: October 7, 2025
Host: Emma Grede
Guest: Jens Grede (entrepreneur & CEO of Skims)

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Overview

In this deeply personal and insightful episode, Emma Grede sits down with her husband and long-time business partner, Jens Grede. Together, they explore the dynamics of building both a family and several successful ventures, including SKIMS. Their conversation delves into Jens’ upbringing, risk-taking, overcoming anxiety, complementary differences, strategies for working with a partner, and the philosophies that drive their shared and individual successes. The episode is rich in practical wisdom for anyone building a business, navigating partnership—romantic or professional—or managing personal well-being under pressure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jens’ Upbringing and Early Career (04:07–08:52)

• Creative Roots and Early Independence

  • Grew up in a “small working-class community” south of Stockholm with a filmmaker father and tapestry artist mother.
  • Left home at 16 to pursue skateboarding in Stockholm, feeding a restless and aspirational spirit.
    "I was a big daydreamer. I spent most of my school years daydreaming. I certainly didn’t spend them studying." (07:59 – Jens)

• Nonlinear Path into Fashion

  • Broke into the industry without connections by offering to work for free at a magazine in Stockholm.
  • Moved to London at 19 with just £300, motivated by both romance and ambition.

2. Transition to Entrepreneurship & Taking Risks (08:52–18:19)

• Creating His Own Opportunities

  • Started his first business at 24 out of necessity, unable to land a job for both himself and his best friend.
  • Emphasizes that seeking opportunity within dysfunction or imperfect settings can be an advantage. "If you work in an environment with some dysfunction... you'd be great. You will stand out." (10:48 – Jens)

• Career Philosophy

  • Describes himself more as a coach than a CEO, preferring the role of visionary and facilitator.
  • Warns against getting caught up in titles or being a "CEO" for status sake. "I couldn't care two shits about those things." (13:11 – Jens)

• Excellence Over Circumstance

  • Dismisses the myth of overnight success: it's all about skill and perseverance. "I've never seen excellent people fail." (16:37 – Jens)

• Reinvention & Risk

  • Advocates for continual reinvention every 5–7 years. "The biggest risk you can take in life is not taking any risks in life." (17:12 – Jens)

3. Emma & Jens—Building Love and Business Together (21:20–34:59)

• How They Met & Early Working Relationship

  • Met through business, initially with Emma joining one of Jens' agencies.
  • Developed professional rapport before romance—something they both credit as vital. Emma: "It has been a gift and a blessing that we had a working relationship…before we actually started dating." (26:17)

• Combining Differences for Success

  • Acknowledge stark contrasts in their work styles: Emma is emotional and personable; Jens is stoic and objective. Emma: "Not like Mars and Venus. No, like galaxies apart." (30:23)
  • Align deeply on values, taste, and vision, which forms their foundation at home and at work.

• Rules for Working Together

  • Their guiding principle: “Whoever cares the most gets to decide.” "If you care that much about it, I'm going to let you have it." (32:01 – Jens)

• Decision-Making and the Value of Action

  • Emphasize moving on quickly rather than agonizing over decisions. "Just make a decision and move on. Companies and ideas fail not because of good and bad ideas, but because people cannot make decisions." (33:13 – Jens)

4. Gut Instinct, Learning, and Trust (36:33–40:55)

• Understanding and Training Intuition

  • Jens describes “gut feel” as the product of accumulated experience, curiosity, and learning. "Your gut is really your collective memory, your collective experience and learnings...that becomes your gut." (36:55 – Jens)

• Examples of Gut-Led Decisions

  • Trusted his gut when meeting Kim Kardashian about SKIMS—felt compelled to act on the opportunity. "Once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it." (39:47 – Jens)
  • Points out that ignoring his gut has consistently led to poor outcomes.

5. Navigating Disagreements and Roles (41:42–47:48)

• Grace in Business and Marriage

  • Allowing space for each other’s styles and decisions is a form of grace. "You’ve got to give each other grace and allow one another to be who you are." (42:35 – Jens)

• Advice for Working with Partners and Friends

  • If you have to overthink roles or compatibility, maybe the partnership isn’t right. "If you have to have the conversation, maybe you shouldn't be partners." (46:47 – Jens)
  • Admiration and respect for a partner’s unique skills are essential.

6. Anxiety as a Superpower (49:00–64:32)

• Open Conversation About Anxiety

  • Jens reframes anxiety from weakness to a driver of success—helping him anticipate problems and stay grounded. "You're not just successful despite your anxiety, you're successful because of them." (49:00 – Jens)
  • Accepts anxiety as a wave; the challenge is not letting it shrink your life.

• Coping & Tools

  • Honesty with others about anxiety is grounding; developed “exit strategies” for high-stress moments (e.g., having the option to leave situations).
  • Meditation and reflection foster resilience and sharp instincts. "Meditation allows us to ground ourselves so we can make better decisions..." (95:00 – Jens)

• Paranoia as an Edge

  • “Paranoid” awareness of risk and change led to timely pivots and smart investments. "I've always planned for the next chapter while I was in my current one." (63:06 – Jens)

• Advice to Young People with Anxiety

  • Go after your dreams regardless—action expands your life, avoidance shrinks it.

7. Lessons for Parenting & Personal Philosophy (76:30–87:19)

• Instilling Independence in Children

  • Wants his kids to “write their own story,” not live in their parents' shadow. "I want my children to write their own story. ...I want them to be them." (76:30 – Jens)

• On Success and Happiness

  • The most important thing: building a life to be proud of—not titles, money, or external recognition.
  • Advice to his younger self and others: "It's going to be okay." (83:55 – Jens)

• Ownership, Resilience, and Gratefulness

  • The power comes from owning your journey, embracing change, and staying grateful through ups and downs.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Growth & Daydreaming
  "I was a big daydreamer. I certainly didn't spend my school days studying. I Never went to college." (07:59 – Jens)

• On Opportunity in Dysfunction
  "If you work in an environment with some dysfunction...you will stand out and you'll get opportunities because you will be there and you'll do a better job." (10:48 – Jens)

• On Reinvention and Risk
  "The biggest risk you can take in life is not taking any risks in life." (17:12 – Jens)

• On Complementary Partnership
  Emma: "We are so different... but in our home lives and what we care about and who we are, we're incredibly similar." (29:17)
  Jens: "Galaxies apart [in style]...but that's small stuff." (30:23)

• Decision-Making Mantra
  "Just make a decision and move on...Make more decisions. Don't sweat it." (34:59 – Jens)

• On Trusting Gut Instinct
  "Your gut is really your collective memory, your collective experience...that becomes your gut." (36:55 – Jens)

• Grace in Relationships
  "You've got to give each other grace and allow one another to be who you are." (42:35 – Jens)

• On Anxiety as Fuel
  "You're not just successful despite your anxiety, you're successful because of them." (49:00 – Jens)
  "My fear is always driving me to see around the corners...But it actually is a superpower to constantly live and work in the future." (59:56 – Jens)

• On Partnership Rules
  "Who cares most? Because if you're passionate about it, it's important for you to see that through. ...Isn't it much easier to go, if this is really important to you, we're going to do it the way you want?" (33:12 – Jens)

• On Marriage and Ambition
  Emma: "There's seasons to this shit. ...Sometimes it's all about me, sometimes it's all about you. ...We are in constant conversation about these things." (68:00)

• On Building a Life
  "The most important thing is that I built the life that I'm proud of." (83:46 – Jens)

• Ultimate Wisdom
  "If it's not okay, that's okay too. ...Moments don't last forever. There's still water on the other side of the wave. And if you're going for hell, you gotta keep on going." (87:19 – Jens)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jens’ childhood & motivation: 04:07–08:52
• Early business lessons & risk: 08:52–18:19
• Meeting Emma & partnership dynamics: 21:20–34:59
• Decision-making philosophy: 32:45–34:59
• Gut instincts & trust: 36:33–40:55
• Rules for working together: 31:30–33:13
• Open discussion on anxiety: 49:00–64:32
• Advice for working with friends/family: 46:47–48:28
• Lessons for children & balancing ambition: 76:30–69:34
• Biggest achievements & advice to 20-year-old self: 78:59–85:04
• Rapid-fire Q&A (personal routines, values): 88:17–96:09
• Meditation, presence, staying connected: 93:28-94:54, 96:27–98:14

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rare, unguarded look at one of business and culture's power couples. Packed with practical frameworks—such as grace over ego, the value of decisive action, feeding your gut instinct, and the radical acceptance of anxiety as a strength—Emma and Jens deliver advice not just for entrepreneurs, but for anyone striving to balance ambition, relationships, and personal well-being.

If you’re looking to build not only a business, but a meaningful life and partnership, the lessons shared here will leave a lasting imprint.

Transcript

[Emma Grede]

Today is a crazy one. I'm interviewing my husband, who I've also worked with for over 18 years, Jens greed. Jens is a serial entrepreneur, prolific investor in the media and consumer industries, father of our four kids and son, CEO of Skims. Today we unpack how we've been able to build together in life and business. Jens reveals why he never denies gut instinct and how success is about opportunity, patience and resilience and the moment that changed everything for us. You can't predict sick days, but with Kleenex lotion tissues, you can be better prepared for them while helping keep your skin healthy. Whether it's a surprise sneeze or a stuffy nose, it's always good to have something gentle on hand. Kleenex lotion tissues moisturize to help prevent skin irritation while you're battling those unwanted cold and flu symptoms. It's extra care when you need it the most. With lotion built into every tissue, your skin stays moisturized and healthy, no matter how many you use. Keep relief within reach. Grab Kleenex lotion tissues to help avoid the added discomfort of irritated skin during cold and flu season. I mean, why not have one less thing to worry about when you're not feeling your best? We all know life is unpredictable, but you can be prepared for that time of year when germs are going around by making sure you've always got Kleenex lotion tissues at the ready for whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex. Every entrepreneur has that moment at 2am when they're wrestling with a problem that won't let go. Maybe it's restructuring a partnership deal. Maybe it's figuring out international expansion. Or maybe it's debugging a code that's blocking your launch. That's where Claude becomes invaluable AI that thinks through problems with you. Upload your contracts, financial models or business plans. Claude analyzes documents up to 200 pages instantly. Need to research market trends? Claude searches the web and synthesizes findings with citations you can verify. But here's what's different. Claude doesn't just give you quick answers. It works through complex problems. Step by step asks clarifying questions, spots issues you might miss. It's built for people who care about getting the right solution, not just any solution. Whether you're building the next billion dollar brand or solving technical challenges, Claude matches your level of ambition. Try Claude for free at Claude AI aspirewithemma and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Hi, darling.

[Jens Grede]

Hi.

[Emma Grede]

This is weird.

[Jens Grede]

Oh, yeah. Very, very weird.

[Emma Grede]

How are you feeling?

[Jens Grede]

I'm extremely nervous. I think I'm the most nervous I've been for like since our wedding day.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, shut up. There's no way. Are you really?

[Jens Grede]

Of course. Because I want to do a good job for you. This isn't what I do, so I'm doing it for you.

[Emma Grede]

You're so good. I literally had Rs from outside. Well, you're very lovely and I'm happy you're here because actually, of all the people I've asked to do the podcast, you gave me the most direct answer, which was just a flat no. Maybe season two.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

And here you are.

[Jens Grede]

I was hoping when season two would roll around, I could say season three and so forth.

[Emma Grede]

It was just kicking the cat.

[Jens Grede]

It was a deferment.

[Emma Grede]

Well, the people have spoken yet they want to hear from you. It is a of social media questioning. So here you are. Obviously I know you as my beloved husband, the father of our four children and an amazing investor, founder, CEO, all round entrepreneur. But for my audience that don't know you, can you just take me back to the beginning a little bit and talk to the audience about where you come from and what your upbringing was like?

[Jens Grede]

I grew up in a small working class community an hour south of Stockholm. Son of a Swedish filmmaker who made very difficult movies about difficult subjects.

[Emma Grede]

Can say that again.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. And a mother who was a tapestry artist. So we were the odd family. You know, I wouldn't say we were the Addams family, but we were the odd family in where I was raised.

[Emma Grede]

And talk a little bit about. Because you left home at a very young age and kind of set out on your own away from your parents, like 16 years old.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, I moved away when I was 16. You know, I grew up in the countryside, but I never really had a strong connection to the countryside. I was a kid that was very bored growing up and dreaming of, you know, the big city. And I was obsessed with skateboarding and I spent my whole childhood skateboarding and snowboarding and it's not that easy to skateboard on a farm.

[Emma Grede]

Facts.

[Jens Grede]

So which is. It was like a challenging choice. So I moved to Stockholm when I was 16 so I could really skate all year round indoors and lived on my own ever since.

[Emma Grede]

Tell me about coming to London. I know you turned up to London when you were 19, but give me that bridge of like, how did you get into fashion? Because I feel like for certain careers, music, fashion, entertainment, it's, you know, it's very, very different now to what it was back then. But you were still a kid with no contacts, no money, no. Like you weren't in the mix. Cause that's not where you came from. So how did you break into fashion? What's your first job?

[Jens Grede]

Well, that was before I came to London. I think I was like 20, about to become 21. I had somehow wrangled my way into a magazine in Stockholm that was a very well respected fashion magazine. I wrangled my way in by. I approached them in a nightclub. I saw the editor and I said I work for free. And who doesn't want someone working for free?

[Emma Grede]

That's what we could do back in the day. Those days are gone. But we all worked for free.

[Jens Grede]

I worked for free until he grew a conscience and started paying me.

[Emma Grede]

You didn't tell him he had to pay you?

[Jens Grede]

No, no, no.

[Emma Grede]

We all just worked for free. It was the norm, especially in fashion.

[Jens Grede]

Well, I wanted the job and I was okay to go hungry for a.

[Emma Grede]

Little bit and go hungry. You did all right. So you turn up to London, you've got 300 quid in your pocket and 300 quid is, you know, not a lot of dollars basically. And what do you do?

[Jens Grede]

Well, I know this is shocking to hear, but I had a girlfriend before you. I know, I know, I know it's shocking and surprising.

[Emma Grede]

Do you mean that you moved to London for a girl?

[Jens Grede]

I think there was a girl involved, yes. In that move. I wanted to move to New York.

[Emma Grede]

Long may she be gone.

[Jens Grede]

Well, God works in mysterious ways.

[Emma Grede]

Because I was in London just waiting for you.

[Jens Grede]

Because you were in London. Because I did not like London. I didn't like it one bit. And I wanted to move to New York and I showed up in London. We shared a small apartment above a bookbinders on Holloway Road. Which is not the greatest area then. I don't think it's the greatest area today. And I slept on a. Well, her and I lived on a blow up mattress together with her flatmate. That was that.

[Emma Grede]

They were the good old days.

[Jens Grede]

They were the good old days. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Did you envisage yourself to be where you are now?

[Jens Grede]

The short answer is yes. I mean, I never envisaged my career. I never had a plan for my career. I didn't know what form it would take or what good I could do. But I was a daydreamer. Yeah, I was a big daydreamer. And I think I spent most of my school years daydreaming. I certainly didn't spend my school days studying. I Never went to college?

[Emma Grede]

No. You left when you were what, 15, 16?

[Jens Grede]

No, no, I left after high school. After high school. It's a little different in the UK to the US and Sweden, but I left after high school, you know, had terrible grades. I couldn't get into university. I wanted to get into university because I wanted to be able to live. And if I would get into university, I would get student loans and I could live on the student loans, but my grades didn't really get me there.

[Emma Grede]

So from the terrible grades, tell me how you first got started in business. What was the first thing?

[Jens Grede]

So the way I think about business, there's something I do to do, something I want to do. Business itself, it's a means to an end. It's the necessary things we do to be able to practice something we love or we want to express. You don't become an artist to be in the music business. You become an artist to become an artist. The music business as follows. Being an artist or a writer, and I was a writer, or at least identified as a writer. I didn't write very much, but I identified as a writer. You have to work at a magazine. But really I didn't have any fault of being in business or running a business or starting a business until I had to start a business to do what I wanted to do.

[Emma Grede]

Why did you need to start a business? Like, where were you? Where were you at? Where were you working?

[Jens Grede]

I was 24 and I wanted.

[Emma Grede]

That's really young. To start a business.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. But I couldn't get the job I wanted, so I had to create the job I wanted. I wanted to work with my best friend and no one would hire two people at the same time. I can't believe we thought that. We were naive enough to think that you can get hired as two people. I mean, how many people have come into your office saying, here's the two.

[Emma Grede]

Of us and here's my best friend.

[Jens Grede]

Here'S my best friend. Hire us both. That's not how it goes. However, we were naive enough to think that that's how it goes. And when. Not only that, we only really wanted to work for one or two people. And when they didn't give us a job, we had no choice but to.

[Emma Grede]

Start our own business. I've heard you talk about, or heard you say that dysfunction is an opportun. And so I wonder about somebody listening to this, how, you know, a toxic job, a bad boss, or being in a kind of not so great work environment can actually be a growth experience.

[Jens Grede]

Well, Just imagine, right, if everybody around you is really great, you know how hard it is to stand out. But if you work in an environment with some dysfunction and you're in a job and you don't think your boss is that good or your coworker is that good, good, you'd be great. You'd be great. You will stand out and you'll get opportunities because you will be there and you'll do a better job. So, yeah, instead of, and I've said this to many friends, don't complain about your environment. See your environment as an opportunity to put yourself forward and do a great job. Don't worry so much about if the people you work with is not up to what you perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be your level. But then you be the level.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, no, I think that shuts down quite a lot of complaining. I love what you said about the way of framing your 20s, your 30s, and your 40s, because I think that common wisdom, or so many of us think that everything should be figured out. Like, you've spent maybe time in education, you come out of college in your 20s, and you should walk into this dream situation. But the reality is, and I think I've learned this as I got, As I got older, that it doesn't work like that at all. And I wonder if, like, you know, you have hundreds and hundreds of employees, you've had multiple companies and successes. Can you talk a little bit about the timing, the timing of everything and how we should think about some of those frameworks?

[Jens Grede]

Well, unlike you, I don't have a plan.

[Emma Grede]

We're going to talk a lot about how different we are here.

[Jens Grede]

And I. I don't have a. I don't have a linear career path. I don't call myself an entrepreneur. I don't call myself a CEO. I normally say, who the hell wants to be a CEO? CEOs gets fired. I don't want to be a CEO. I want to call the shots. I want to own it, but let someone else be independent.

[Emma Grede]

But the distinction is important because I think for a long time, all I wanted in my life was to be the CEO, the entrepreneur. And you have always fought against those things. You're like, no, you don't, Emma. You just want to be the person calling the shots.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, what does it matter?

[Emma Grede]

Well, I think people care about labels. You're just very like, you can give a shit about those things.

[Jens Grede]

I couldn't care two shits about those things. I think one should be careful about being too excited about calling yourself a CEO or founder? I mean, I prefer founder. I think founder is fair. You have an idea, you're bringing that to life. I think it's the best way to describe it. But to me, when I think about a CEO, I think about someone who is commanding a large corporation, not someone who's trying to make a dream become a reality.

[Emma Grede]

But you are a CEO. You're the CEO of Skims almost, since you've been the CEO of multiple companies. And yet that's just not something that you identify with.

[Jens Grede]

No, I identify with the role of. As a coach. I think in as you know, which is ironic. But I really think about a lot of things in business as a sports analogy and I'm a basketball coach. I want to win the title. I put my guys on the floor, you know, but if you're losing in the fourth quarter, I'm not going to run out and sink a three pointer for you, but I'm going to deal with you in the off season. So for me, I see my job as trying to bring a vision into reality. And that vision will shift as business gets bigger. The dream of what Skims can become is bigger today than when we started the company. But I see my role with Kim. Kim had a vision of what she wanted to create, and I see my role as making that a reality for her and for myself and for you and for our team.

[Emma Grede]

I want to know because I feel like you have a good point of view on this. For someone who's starting out with super limited resources, what do you think the smartest way is to build and to create momentum for yourself? If somebody else has the £300 in their pocket, what do you think you would advise?

[Jens Grede]

Well, if you got three or four hundred dollars in your pocket, you can't really do shit. That's the truth. You have to be good at something. If you don't have the money, you have to have the human capital, your skill set, your drive, your talent that is hopefully more valuable than $400. So you have to double down on being good at something. People try to skip that over. We see these success stories all the time about someone who stumbles over something and oh my God, now it's unbelievable and it's a billion dollar business. And I can tell you I have been, as you know, an avid investor in the consumer space and in technology and media for 20 years. I'm on the inside of many of those stories. It's not my name because it's not mine, but I'm on the inside because I'm an investor, it never is what people think it is. It's never as great as it might look. So it's far better to focus on being excellent. And I have, in my whole life, never seen excellent people fail.

[Emma Grede]

That's a delicious bit of advice right there.

[Jens Grede]

Just be. Just try to be great.

[Emma Grede]

Just try to be great. Just try to take whatever it is that you've got and be great. I want to talk to you about, like, the big pivotal moments. And I think that one element or something that I see in you that I've really had to try to learn is this element of risk taking. And so I feel like you have reinvented yourself in your career multiple, multiple times. And I wonder, like, what's given you the courage to start over and start over and start over again?

[Jens Grede]

The biggest risk you can take in life is not taking any risks in life.

[Emma Grede]

You have told me this many times.

[Jens Grede]

That's a fact. Whatever good moment you have, it's going to pass for everybody.

[Emma Grede]

You are a bundle of joy, my darling.

[Jens Grede]

It is just what it is.

[Emma Grede]

This is the stoic Swedish joyfulness that I wake up with every morning feeling good. It's going to pass. I'm like, oh, great.

[Jens Grede]

Well, it's going to pass if you don't reinvent yourself well, because you believe.

[Emma Grede]

Very much, like not getting high on your own supply, right? You're like, you'll be in a moment and you know, it's just a fleeting moment.

[Jens Grede]

I think getting high on getting high on your own supply or getting high on your own success, I would say that drug has taken down more of my friends than any of the others. You have to reinvent yourself every five to seven years.

[Emma Grede]

And give me a note, like, for people listening. Exactly. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by reinvent yourself.

[Jens Grede]

Listening on your podcast, Fair.

[Emma Grede]

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[Jens Grede]

Let's do it.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, so we got to the kind of early 30s which is basically when I met you. I met you when you were 30 because I remember your 30th birthday. 29 because I remember your 30th birthday.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I wasn't invited. No, you had another girlfriend then too.

[Jens Grede]

But it wasn't much of a party.

[Emma Grede]

No, you were miserable before me. But let's just talk about. Well actually, why don't we Talk about that. Why don't we talk about how we first met? Because you know how couples have these different ideas of that. Let's talk about us together, how we met. Go on. In your words.

[Jens Grede]

Well, we met through an agency that was under the Saturday Group umbrella, and they wanted to branch out into sponsorship and events. I didn't really care, but the people running it.

[Emma Grede]

That's exactly why I came over. Because you didn't care.

[Jens Grede]

I was like, all right, whatever, we'll try it.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

And they said this.

[Emma Grede]

But you were in my interview. You were my final interview, basically.

[Jens Grede]

Yes, yes.

[Emma Grede]

And I remember my interview. You do remember it. Where were we?

[Jens Grede]

But I was gonna say something nice.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, go on, go on.

[Jens Grede]

I was gonna say something really nice. They were saying at the time, I was like, why would we do that? And they were like, this girl, everybody loves her. She's super well respected. She's really young. But I think it'd be really good look for us if she worked here, because everybody else would want her to work for them. And I said, good enough for me, but let me meet this person.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And so I met you.

[Jens Grede]

So you met.

[Emma Grede]

And how did you feel about me straight away? Was it love at first sight?

[Jens Grede]

It wasn't love at first sight.

[Emma Grede]

For.

[Jens Grede]

You, but it wasn't.

[Emma Grede]

I loved you straight away.

[Jens Grede]

But it wasn't love.

[Emma Grede]

I really did. You can't say it's not love you really like. The way I remember it is, you literally didn't know that I existed for nine months.

[Jens Grede]

I think that's a slight exaggeration. I do remember our entire first meeting in detail.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, yeah, no doubt. You're very. You remember details.

[Jens Grede]

And I wouldn't have remembered that in detail if you hadn't made a very strong impression. I remember telling someone I thought you were very cute. So I give you that. But I was also aware that that's not something I should think.

[Emma Grede]

I remember being so in love with you the moment I met you that when you wrote my offer down, because I was essentially, at that point, it was like I was going to start a division of an agency you already had, and I would have a stake in that. You know, it wasn't really even a company, it was just a division, but I would basically get to, you know, make a decent amount of money. And you wrote my offer down on a piece of paper. And I loved you so much at that point that I still have.

[Jens Grede]

You still have it?

[Emma Grede]

That notebook. It's upstairs still in my GA office. It's upstairs in the Office. Yes.

[Jens Grede]

That's extremely cute.

[Emma Grede]

Isn't that cute?

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, that's very cute. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I'm so glad you thought that was cute.

[Jens Grede]

I like that.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. I mean, it's the truth. I was completely smitten. But, you know, we were not in situations, either of us, to start dating one another because we both had other partners at the time.

[Jens Grede]

I don't think that meet Q is as interesting, perhaps, as how, you know, how I fell in love with you, which I find was one of the most. I'm going to sound like the way. I don't want to come across almost spiritual in the way that happened. It was a. Sounds like I have dream catchers.

[Emma Grede]

It really does.

[Jens Grede]

Which is like the opposite. But I just knew when I knew. I knew when I knew. I had no doubt. It was like a cosmic experience. And I knew you felt same way. Even though we had never talked about.

[Emma Grede]

No, we never had a discussion because we were professional.

[Jens Grede]

When we kind of proclaimed our love for one another and started dating, we just came out with it. Yeah, I remember I was with you and we.

[Emma Grede]

No, we hadn't had. We hadn't kissed and we hadn't done.

[Jens Grede]

Nothing, but I was willing to leave everything and anything for you.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, same.

[Jens Grede]

And you did, which, you know. Yeah. Sometimes the greatest risk is not taking it. But it didn't feel like a risk at all. It felt like this is what I had to do. But I was never uncertain. And I was never uncertain about how you felt either.

[Emma Grede]

No. I think that we've been very clear together. I mean, I do think, and I say this all the time, it was. It has been a gift and a blessing that we had a working relationship together for just under a year before we actually started dating. Before I put my, you know, falling in love on day one to the side and decided to do some good work.

[Jens Grede]

Well, that's helpful because when you have a working rapport, it's much easier to have a personal rapport.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jens Grede]

Rapport. And you try to turn that into working rapport. That can be a little bit challenging because you just have different patterns.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. The way around it really worked. And I think that what's been interesting is how we've managed to stay happily married together now with four kids later, and yet still work together. So what do you think it is that makes us able to work together?

[Jens Grede]

I will broaden that a little bit because I have only really worked with friends I consider true. With a friend I didn't. In almost every case, you know, there's been that duality. You know, you're my family. But as we grow up in our 20s and 30s, our friends are also our family. So I have only. I feel like I've always ever worked with family. But also I grew up in a home where my dad was making movies and my mom was making art, and they had a dialogue around each other's work all the time. So I think I grew up in a home where work and life was always intertwined, and it wasn't something that my parents were trying to separate. They got a tremendous amount of joy and value out of it, just like I believe I'm getting a tremendous amount of joy and value out of working with you. You know, all relationships, not just in love, but all relationships, have to create something together. And we can create a home, we can create a family. People can create memories. You can have projects. You can start companies. People ask me all the time. My friends ask me, you're working with your wife. How is it to work with your wife? How can you work with your wife? That would drive me nuts. How do you do it? And I say, you all work with your wife. You all work with your partners. We're lucky now that we don't have to argue so much about who's taking out the trash. But for most people, the division of roles and responsibilities in a home, in any relationship, it sure looks like work to me. So I don't make that much distinction.

[Emma Grede]

You really don't?

[Jens Grede]

No.

[Emma Grede]

I always think that it's somewhere in the fact that you and I are. And we talk about this a lot, like we are so different. The way we approach business, the way we are with the people that we work with. You and I have entirely opposite styles, but in our home lives and what we care about and who we are, we're incredibly similar.

[Jens Grede]

I think we're very similar about our taste.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

Taste, meaning how we want to live, how we want to eat, what we get excited about. We have very similar values, you know, of the whole spectrum of values. I think we have similar moral code.

[Emma Grede]

That for sure.

[Jens Grede]

I think we look at the world in a very similar way. I feel that I'm incredibly aligned with you as a human being. Yeah. Our styles of work, stylistically, are entirely different. Not like Mars and Venus. No, like galaxies apart.

[Emma Grede]

Galaxies apart.

[Jens Grede]

Galaxies apart.

[Emma Grede]

Galaxies apart.

[Jens Grede]

You are charming and friendly and personable and emotional and, you know.

[Emma Grede]

And you, my darling, I've been accused.

[Jens Grede]

Of being a little bit stoic, a little impersonal, perhaps, sometimes a little cold. I wouldn't use that word. But I would just say, you know, a little bit more objective. We're super different in how we approach our work, but that's small stuff. That's just how you approach your work is how you get shit done. Yeah, that's what that.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

You know, and I've said this to you many times when we've had disagreements, which is it's all going to lead to the same result.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

This is how you go about it to get to your end result. I have to go about it the way I go about it. And when you say, how can you do this? Or, you know, I don't agree with that. You know, I'll sometimes have to remind you that I've done just fine in life doing it my way. And we're gonna get to the same place.

[Emma Grede]

We're gonna get to the same place. But we do have some rules. Like, I feel like one of the things that between you and I, we always say, like, whichever of us cares the most gets to decide.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, this is a. I would say this is a pillar of my kind of philosophy. Or working with people that I love. And it goes for you. It goes for all my partners. I think it goes for my working relationship with Kim.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

Which is, I know what you. I know what Kim. I know what my other partners deeply care about. And if you care that much about it, I'm going to let you have it. And I'm lucky enough to work with people that give me the grace that when I care a lot, you let me have it. Because in the end of the day, we all make good decisions. We make more bad decisions. Yeah, it's okay. Okay. You like blue. I like red. Who to say what's the best? Okay. If you really want blue, let's do blue. If it doesn't work out, we'll do it differently. It's the big deal.

[Emma Grede]

How does your dad say it? Some things work out. What is the saying that he has?

[Jens Grede]

Well, the saying my dad has, which applies to a lot of things in life, is it's going to be okay. But if it's not okay, that's okay, too. But as it pertains to, like, how you divide responsibilities between a friend and a business partner, it's really important to follow the rule of who cares.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

Who cares more? Because if you're passionate about it, it's important for you to see that through. You have that in your heart. You want to see this idea through. Who am I to stop you from seeing that through? That creates friction and tension. And if it doesn't work out or you don't get your way and I get my way instead and that doesn't work out, you're going to be resentful thinking. If you've only done it my way, isn't it much easier to go? If this is really important to you, we're going to do it the way you want to do it, and we're going to get behind the way you want to do it 110%. If it doesn't work out, well, you know what? We'll make a different decision next time. It's okay. Honestly, people overthink the small decisions and they forget about the bigger picture. Because you chose that color, because you opened that store, because you choose that packaging, because you spent that on a billboard, you think that's really ultimately going to determine the success of what you're doing. It's not. You're going to make some bad decisions. You're probably going to make some horrible decisions. The secret to success as a founder is to realize that you only have to make a couple of really good decisions. And you can make a ton of bad ones. Just make a couple really good ones. And the only way you make some good decisions is to make a decision and move on. Companies and ideas fail not because of good and bad ideas, but because people cannot make decisions. They spend too much time with too few decisions. Make more decisions. Don't sweat it, Learn from it, Move on.

[Emma Grede]

What was your advice? Because I think it's my number one, and I've said this so many times, my number one piece of advice from you is always that, make a decision and move on. But what do you think your advice is for people that hesitate too long, who make decisions out of fear and get it wrong. What do you say to people?

[Jens Grede]

Well, we're all wired differently. So it's easy for me to say to somebody who has a tendency to procrastinate to make a decision and move on. But with so many things that we say, this is who I am. This is the way I am. I do it this way. I overthink, I procrastinate. And you use that as an excuse for not getting shit done. Is it's actually a muscle. I'm not a fast runner. You've seen me run. I run slow.

[Emma Grede]

It's not your thing?

[Jens Grede]

No, it's not my thing. But if I committed myself to it, maybe I could run a little bit faster. Right? So things that we know about ourselves which we wish we could change, it doesn't make you, oh, my God, I'm going to be the fastest, most aggressive risk taker that ever grazed God's earth. That's probably not going to happen. But you can develop that muscle and you can become a faster decision maker. You can become a bigger risk taker. You can be more in tune with what your gut is telling you. You can develop a gut feel.

[Emma Grede]

You always refer to gut instinct and gut feel. Can you just talk about what that means to you specifically?

[Jens Grede]

So when we think about gut feel, we think of that feeling we have inside of us when we are confronted with a decision or how we feel about someone when we meet them or a situation.

[Emma Grede]

Yep, typically.

[Jens Grede]

Right. That's how we refer to it. So when we speak about it, we tend to also speak and think about it as something that's kind of given to us by God, that it just instinctively happens. I can't explain it. It's in my spirit. There might be some truth to it, but your gut is really your collective memory, your collective experience and learnings all inside of you that is forming that feeling. It's everything you read, every book, every article, every conversation you had, every wrong and right decision you made that becomes your gut. And it's okay not to be able to explain why you feel it, but you can feed it, and you can feed it by being a curious person. I spend every morning reading news for an hour. I read everything. Yeah. Five newspapers. I read things I disagree with, I read things I agree with. I listen to podcasts of people that I strongly disagree with and people I strongly agree with. I take in the full spectrum. I meet people. Whenever we meet someone together, you go, oh, here comes Jens. 21 questions. I'm always asking people questions.

[Emma Grede]

I always so interested.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, I just don't want to know, like the surface stuff.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

So all of that, you know, in my life that's built up, that's my gut feel. All of it feeds my gut feel. And I have learned to feed it and I have learned to trust it. I don't need to explain it, I just have. Now, I think my instincts have got better as I got older. And the only way to explain that is to say my gut instinct is a muscle that I have trained and I have developed.

[Emma Grede]

Can you think about a time when your gut instinct has led you down, like, the right path, like when you specifically used your gut and it's turned out to be right?

[Jens Grede]

When I met Kim and she showed me what her early ideas around skims was, and she had an idea about a world that she wanted to build. I wasn't looking for a project. I was very happy. I had no interest in starting another business. I was kind of searching for a quite different chapter, I think, in life. But once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, you could not do it.

[Jens Grede]

I couldn't not do it. And it's not like I want to do something. And I never think that I've approached opportunities and investments and like, oh, I really want. Like, I really want to do it. It's more like I wake up the next day and I think, I have to do it. I cannot not do it. So I just had a gut feeling that what she was showing me was something that I had to help bring to reality. So it certainly led me. Right. But I would say more often, I remember the times where I don't listen to my gut, where I let myself be convinced that I'm wrong, where I'm giving too much, let's say grace. Partly because sometimes I can't articulate why I don't like something. It's not always easy, in a nice way to say, well, I don't like something. Sometimes you see something, just really like it. I don't really like it. So you can be convinced because, okay, I don't really like it. But if you really like it, then you go against that gut feel. It always turns out.

[Emma Grede]

It always turns out terribly.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, it always turns out.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think that you knew when you and I got together, did you think that you knew that we would, like, stay in business together? Did you ever have a feeling about how our life would turn out together?

[Jens Grede]

Well, the most important thing has to be the most important thing. And if you're in love, being in love is the most important thing. So I didn't. I didn't think about business or what's going to happen next week. No, I was in love with you, so that was the most important thing, and that's that.

[Emma Grede]

Do you feel like there's stuff that I do now that drives you crazy as a business partner?

[Jens Grede]

Well, you drive me crazy as a business partner, as my best friend and my wife.

[Emma Grede]

How so?

[Jens Grede]

I've learned, as I get older, I have learned that we all have different processes. It's not for me to change you. That's not my job. And I'm pretty sure I do a lot of things that drives you up the wall. And I think the most important thing for any relationship, again, in love, in business, is really to. And I keep using this word today. I don't know why. You got to give each other grace. You got to give each other grace and allow one another to be who you are. It's okay.

[Emma Grede]

It's okay.

[Jens Grede]

It's okay.

[Emma Grede]

You've heard me talk a lot about personal wealth and side hustles and I'll be honest. One of my favorite things about entrepreneurship is finding ways to make my money work for me even while I'm not working. Here's an example. Imagine you're traveling, maybe taking that dream vacation you've been saving for, or even just away for work for a few weeks. Did you know that you could actively be building that vacation fund while you're gone by hosting your home on Airbnb? If the thought of hosting sounds overwhelming, here's the good news. You don't have to do it all yourself. With the co host network, you can hire a high quality local co host to take care of everything for you. We're talking about creating your listing, managing reservations, messaging guests, offering on site support, even helping with design and styling so your place looks its best. So whether you're a snowbird heading south for the winter, away on tour, or just working remotely for a stretch, your home doesn't have to sit empty. It can actually be earning for you. Find a co [e-mail] host you know, before Skims, I used to feel like bras and underwear were either beautiful but uncomfortable or comfortable but not that flattering. There was never a perfect balance. That was one of the biggest reasons for starting skims, creating beautiful but comfortable things you would wear every single day. I wear our Fits Everybody underwear every day. We have the most perfect panties in every silhouette and bras and bralettes that work with whatever you're wearing. We made racerback bras that are perfect when you're wearing a tank. We made padded, lined and unlined bras. We really thought of everything your girls need. With the Fits Everybody collection, we created a fabric that feels like a second skin. It's soft, it's stretchy, and it's supportive without ever digging in or showing through your clothes. Fits Everybody has been in the line from day one and it's still one of our best selling collections. Skims has totally redefined what underwear can be. It's thoughtful in design, innovative fabrics and styles that make you feel confident. The safety second you put them on. You can shop my favorite [e-mail] and after you place your order, be sure to let them know that I sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and select our show Aspire With Emma Greed in the dropdown menu that follows. I want to talk about disagreements because obviously all partnerships, relationships, everyone has disagreements. And how do you think that, especially in a relationship like ours, how do you stop, or how do we stop disagreements from becoming, like, destructive at work or at home?

[Jens Grede]

Well, it goes back to a little bit about who cares most. My ambition is actually not to have disagreements. Once you have a disagreement, it's got them pretty far. So I don't like to get to that. I mean, you can have bickering, but I love disagreements. It's got to go pretty far to disagreement. That means that you have a point of view, I have a different point of view. No one's willing to give up their point of view that it feels so strongly that we rather disagree than move forward. So I think disagreements should be avoided generally. But if you find yourself in the unfortunate situation that you have a true disagreement, you've got to take down the temperature de escalate. And again, what's the most important thing? Are we going to lose our business, lose our love, lose our friendship over this? Is this the most consequential thing? Is everything really at stake here? Usually not almost never, right?

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. Like, usually not almost never. So what do you think? If there's people listening right now and they are thinking about working with a partner or working with a really close friend, what's the first conversation that they need to have before saying yes or coming together?

[Jens Grede]

I think if you have to have the conversation, maybe you shouldn't be partners. You know, I think that the best partners have a different skillset to you. You do different things. So the things that you do or the thing that Kim does or the thing that our partners do has to be different from the thing that I do. So if you're the expert at A, it's going to be very easy for me to let you make all the decision as it pertains to A. If I'm an expert in B, you're going to let me make the decision as it pertains to B. You might advise me differently from what I want to do. But ultimately that's my area of expertise. So I think if you're sitting with a friend, you're trying to figure out how to work together, you probably shouldn't work together.

[Emma Grede]

He was already doomed.

[Jens Grede]

You're doomed.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. We never had to sit down and figure out our roles. It's bloody obvious. Yeah, basically.

[Jens Grede]

But with everybody I work with, it's pretty obvious we do different things. And you should have more so than some kind of agreement. Admire your partners for what they do. Respect them for what they do. I worked with some brilliant creatives. I'm not as good as them. I admire them.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Jens Grede]

I wish I had those skills. I don't have them. I admire. I look up to it. And I'm excited to see what they do every day.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Jens Grede]

That's how I want to go to work. I want to be excited about what my partner is going to. And I hope they're excited about what I'm going to do.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt. I want to change gear a little bit because I am very happy that you. That you're happy and open to talk about anxiety. And you have been pretty open about the fact that you suffer from anxiety. And I want to understand a bit more about anxiety as it relates to your career and your life and your business, because I think that we're so much conditioned to see anxiety as a weakness. And I know you think about it as a superpower. So will you. When did you start seeing it as a superpower? And will you just talk about it a bit?

[Jens Grede]

For me, very late, probably in my late 30s, where I really understood. And I did that through work I was doing with a highly spiritual person who asked me. I said, I want to change. I don't want to be this anxious person any longer. I want to feel whole. And he said, are you sure you want to change? I said, yeah, this is a really negative thing for me. This is a big, you know, my days are heavy. And he said, if you change, it also will change who you are. You're not just successful because despite your anxiety, you're successful because of them. There's so many positives that are driven and so many skills that comes from your anxiety that if you change that, you might not be as good as you are today. You might not be as good version. You might not be as inefficient, effective, founder, entrepreneur without it. Are you sure you want to lose that power? And that was. Oh, yeah, that was. I walked out of that room.

[Emma Grede]

I remember Dr. Tran, right?

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, Dr. Tran. Nothing had changed and everything had changed at the same time.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. I mean, I think that. That even just you saying it, and I know that story so well, I feel like it is so important for people to hear because we all have parts of our personality that are useful or less useful. More useful or less useful. And it's not often. Like, we don't often put things in the right order. We don't often understand how some of those things that can Be troubling to us, can also enable us.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. And anxiety can be debilitating, can be crippling and indeed, for many people, something that they need to get treated at the same time. Anxiety is a human emotion. It's part of our human experience. We all have it. It's healthy to have a dose of anxiety. It's connected to fear, which is a natural human emotion reaction. Our ability to feel love, sadness, you know, joy. Anxiety is part of us. I have more of it and I have so much of it that for a long time in my life, every day was just harder for me than it was for other people. And I kind of started every day at a negative. Right? So I had to overcome that to do anything. I had to overcome anxiety to meet people. I had to overcome anxiety to get out in traffic, to get on an airplane, to be on my own. So I always was so. It was exhausting. It was really, really exhausting and still is often exhausting.

[Emma Grede]

How do you know when anxiety is fueling you versus controlling you?

[Jens Grede]

These days I think it does both, for better or worse. But I don't judge myself for having anxiety anymore. I accept it. I see it as a wave. And when it comes, it can be imposing. And in the middle of the wave you feel hopeless. But I know the wave is going to wash over. And I know there's still. The water is still on the other side. So what am I going to do? Never get in the ocean. Is that better? Or am I going to start getting scared of the sand? You know the problem. And I'm sure other people, if anyone listens to this, who suffers from anxiety, and I'm sure many do. The more you tailor your life to avoid situations which makes you anxious, you're getting anxious in lesser situations. When you lower the bar, that becomes a new bar. You need to lower it again. And life gets smaller that way. It's a very tricky subject. Everybody have their own journey. And I can only speak on my experience. I'm not saying that's translatable to other people. They have to have their journey and they know themselves best. I can only speak of mine, but my personal experience is that I do better when I challenge it.

[Emma Grede]

I wonder, Jens, what tools keep you most grounded when the anxiety flares up? Like how have you learned to cope?

[Jens Grede]

Being honest with the people around me.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, that's a big one.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. I didn't grow up in an environment where you could show fear. I didn't grow up in a community or a culture where that was accepted not in the school where I was accepted, not in the friend group where I was accepted or even a thing.

[Emma Grede]

No. So, I mean, to a certain extent, I don't even think that I understood anxiety until I met you because it's just not a factor in my life and certainly not something I grew up speaking about. And it wasn't until I was in a relationship with you that I understood anxiety to the extent I understand it now.

[Jens Grede]

Right. So I think myself, like many others, when you have. You suffer from dyslexia.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

Okay. So you develop tools to get for school and little things you did and little fake outs and ways for it not to show or to get through your day and get done what you needed to do.

[Emma Grede]

Absolutely.

[Jens Grede]

Okay.

[Emma Grede]

Still using them.

[Jens Grede]

Right. And I still use mine. So I had to develop tools to deal with my anxiety. And what I learned for me is that I needed an out, I needed an emergency exit.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

Okay.

[Emma Grede]

Yep.

[Jens Grede]

I would find ways to reassure myself that I was able to leave this situation if I needed to leave it. And if I knew I had an escape plan, I had a much easier time getting through that wave.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Jens Grede]

So I developed my tools. But what has helped in adult age, as I'm living in a different time in a different culture where we are so much more open and generous with one another, I learned to be very open about how I feel. I went on this podcast right now and I said, I'm nervous. And when I can sit in front of you and say, I'm the most nervous, I've been for 15 years having this conversation with you and I can say that on camera, well, that diffuses my anxiety because if I'm putting it out there, what do you have on me, Falco? The other thing that I've done is to surround myself with people that know how to support me. When they see it's happening, they know the sign. They know. And I have these sayings in my head when I used to go in for a meeting that was consequential when I was in the ad business. You have to pitch for work, so you constantly have to put yourself in really uncomfortable position, fly across the world, get into these hot ass meeting rooms with people, get treated like shit, present your work, sometimes being belittled and millions of dollars is at stake. And at times in the early days, the company was at stake. Yeah, that's a pretty anxious place to be. Even if you're not suffering from anxiety, that's a really anxious, high strung. So I am blessed to have had people around me that say, this isn't the end of the world. They've got nothing on you. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. There's always tomorrow. There's always another client, there's always another flight, there's always another meeting. They helped me diffuse it as I got older and even more confident. All those things live in me. And I think part of why I have pursued success, for lack of better words in life, is to create a environment in which I feel I always have the option to live. I think they call it fuck you, money.

[Emma Grede]

I think that's what they call it for sure.

[Jens Grede]

So I don't want to be crude.

[Emma Grede]

But no, it's true.

[Jens Grede]

I'm a very happy person who suffered from anxiety. And I've been able to create a life partly because of it, partly because of the tools which we haven't really touched on, which I actually think is the superpower in anxiety, not just the militating side of anxiety. So if you don't mind, can we talk a little bit about.

[Emma Grede]

Please. I'm dying for you to. Because I think that if you're a young founder or you're a young leader or you're just anyone who has anxiety, you need to understand that, like, it's a. It's a. I know it's been a breakthrough for you.

[Jens Grede]

Well, you said earlier in this conversation how I don't like to big things up. I'm always moving on to the next thing. I'm always thinking about tomorrow. I'm not really worried about today. But what do you think that comes from? Yeah, where do you think that comes from? My fear, which is essentially what anxiety is, is a sense of irrational fear. Right. My fear is always driving me to see around the corners. I'm not buying the bs, okay, you love me today, you won't love me tomorrow. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to focus on tomorrow. So that's where my focus is going to be. That comes from a place of anxiety, but it actually is a superpower to constantly live and. And work in the future.

[Emma Grede]

Because you're saying it allows you to see around the corners.

[Jens Grede]

Totally.

[Emma Grede]

You can call the play before it's even happening.

[Jens Grede]

We are all the main characters in the movie of our life, right? So most of us believe every moment is here to stay. When people tell us nice things, we tend to really believe they meant them and that they really thought about what they said. It's nice to be an optimist. It's less Gratifying to be a pessimist.

[Emma Grede]

But if you're married to an optimist, you've got some space.

[Jens Grede]

You lift me up. You lift me up. But the positive is that you are more objective, you're more realistic, and you don't tend to get sucked into this vortex where you start trying to feed your own ego. The ego isn't as important for an anxious person. You're swimming. You're trying to keep your head above the water. I'm not really thinking about, oh, my God, I'm so special. I'm trying to survive, bro. I'm trying to live. So if I'm just thinking about living.

[Emma Grede]

You got no time for the bullshit.

[Jens Grede]

I'm not going to think that I'm that special because I might drown. And that's the feeling. The feeling is I'm trying not to drown. So it's easy for me to be objective. It's easy for me to cut through the crap. It's easy for me to transform myself, because my fear of being stuck or my fear of being left or my fear of drowning is far greater than my fear of what's tomorrow. Tomorrow holds promise for me. Tomorrow is exciting for me. Wow.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think you can do the same thing with people because of your anxiety? Like, do you think that you see things that other people miss?

[Jens Grede]

I think anxious people tend to be really great readers of other people. You're so aware.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

All the time. Of your surroundings, because instinctively you're just looking for threats. It's like a primal thing.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, totally.

[Jens Grede]

Right?

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Jens Grede]

This is. We're from the animal kingdom. This is a primal thing. I'm just wired to look for threats. I'm the lookout guy.

[Emma Grede]

You're the caveman. Totally. I hear you.

[Jens Grede]

You want me in the lookout tower.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, totally.

[Jens Grede]

Looking at every leaf, what moves.

[Emma Grede]

That's literally why I married you.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. So, yeah. You become really good at reading people, reading their intentions, understanding what they want, and it's a superpower.

[Emma Grede]

But you speak a bit about this with me, like, about paranoia. Right. Like, you talk about your own paranoia and how that's allowed you to make good decisions, good investments. Eva.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Give me an example of where that type of paranoid mindset has paid off for you.

[Jens Grede]

Well, it's paid off because I have always moved on at a moment where I could have stayed. Right. I have always planned for the next chapter while I was in my current one. I have a red thread through my work because of my love for popular culture, for my love of fashion, for my love of retail for an aesthetic that I gravitate towards. So there's a. This podcast is not long enough for me to lay out how everything I've done, from ad agencies, starting magazines, to starting one of the first influencer platforms, to starting a jeans company, co founding of skims, all of that might seem like, oh my God, you've done so many different things. I think I have just done various expressions of the same thing. That's how I feel.

[Emma Grede]

I can see that.

[Jens Grede]

So it's not like I think that I'm like, oh my God, this ship is sinking. I'm going to jump off to this. It just means that I'm excited about. About where the future is going and my eyes are open for the next opportunity. So when I see that opportunity, I want to take it.

[Emma Grede]

So if you are young now and suffering from anxiety, what, based on your experience, would you say to people? What's the best thing to do?

[Jens Grede]

Just go after your dreams. You have to go for your dreams. You know, if you. If you fail, at least you did it. Now your life becomes smaller. If you don't try your life and your experience becomes bigger. If you go for it, you. You have to challenge yourself and it can be really, really difficult. But that doesn't mean you have a choice. Just do it.

[Emma Grede]

Just do it. I want to talk to you a little bit about more personal life.

[Jens Grede]

Oh, that wasn't personal enough for you?

[Emma Grede]

More personal life as in like digging further into personal life.

[Jens Grede]

I feel like you're finally getting to know me after 16 years. I waited a long time for the 16 years.

[Emma Grede]

I'm wondering if we go to conflict. Like I've got so many things that I wanted to talk to you about. What you think Jens is the hardest part of being married to somebody as ambitious as me.

[Jens Grede]

I've never been married to anyone else, so it's hard to compare. And I wouldn't want to be. Your ambition is part of what I fell in love with. You couldn't take that out of you and it to be you. But I think in any relationship when you have two parties that are highly ambitious, it's more about allowing each other the moment. There was a moment when you were starting this podcast in the spring where that was your moment. The energy around you in your home, I'm sure nerves that you felt going through a transition or adding something to what you wanted to do and put yourself out there in a different way than you've done in the past. That's pretty nerve wracking. It's Going to consume a lot of energy. It's going to consume a lot of conversation at that moment in time. It's going to be all about you. That's okay. It's got to be about you. What can I do? What's best for me is if. And I remember thinking this, the best thing is for Emma to be successful at whatever she wants to succeed at, because God forbid you aren't. I'll have to listen to this for years. But if we lean in here, I let her have this moment, we can get back to me.

[Emma Grede]

We can get back to you eventually.

[Jens Grede]

But it is, jokes aside. I mean, jokes aside. You have to know when something is important to the other partner. Like, so much of what we're talking about today really comes down to grace. Knowing each other and allowing. This is important to you. This is important to me. If you care if this is your moment, if you care about this, I'm gonna get behind you. I'm going through something that's important to me. You'll recognize that and you'll get behind me.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And I feel like once you've been together for as long as we have, for 17 years, there's seasons to this shit. Right. It's like, sometimes it's all about me, sometimes it's all about you. Sometimes there's a clash. I think the point is that we are in constant conversation about these things, and it's not just like a realization that, oh, this person's traveling and sucking all the air out of the room and everything's about them now. It's usually a conversation and an acknowledgement that this is a period that's about to happen in our lives. And I think that we have a level of just a lot of honesty in our relationship and a reality of, like, what is going to happen. We're not trying to kid ourselves about it.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. But that's all supportive of who we are. This is hard thing to teach people, I think. You know, I think if I was married to someone who was about themselves all the time for 16 years, I don't think it would last that long. You know, it's kind of. That will start grating on me a little bit. So that's just not who you are. If you were that person, that wouldn't be you, and I wouldn't be with you. You know, you are, outside of work, a sensitive, highly tuned person and a great and loving and supportive wife to me. And I recognize that. And I want to be all of those things to you.

[Emma Grede]

And you are.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, I Try. I mean, that doesn't mean we get it right all the time.

[Emma Grede]

Well, no, we don't get it right all the time.

[Jens Grede]

Balance is not right all the time. But you know what? That's okay, too. People talk about this like it's not like everything is always imbalanced. Actually, life tends to be like an EKG is never really in balance. Right. It's like. It's not really imbalance, but there's like. Talk to me about balance, but there's some kind of medium in it. There's a kind of an average.

[Emma Grede]

Like. Yeah, you take the average, like somewhere across the. You know, across the life, across the time. Like, there's gonna be, like, more often than not, wavelength. And it's like. Are you comfortable with that?

[Jens Grede]

Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld said something in an interview a while back, and he said, you know, most of us go for a day, okay. We have a good morning, we have a shitty afternoon. We're somewhat of a good moment at dinner. Maybe we're bad again and then we're good again. Life is not a. We're not in this equilibrium.

[Emma Grede]

No, but that's the problem, because I think so many people are looking for equilibrium and they don't get it. And then they wonder. You know, it's like, again, I don't expect to always be in the most joyful, incredible, magical moments with you. And after 15 years, I'd be disappointed. I'd be very disappointed. But that's part of it, right? Because if we. I mean. And again, let's talk about conflict a little bit, because I think a lot of people want to understand with us, if we have conflict at home, how do we make sure that it doesn't seep into business and vice versa? Like, how. How do we manage conflict within our relationship?

[Jens Grede]

I'm going to tie this to what we just discussed.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. Please.

[Jens Grede]

What's the most important thing here? What's the most important thing? And you can have levels to a relationship. I don't have just one level of my relationship with you or anyone else. I have some people do. Some people. It's like just one bucket.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. No, we have. No, that's not my.

[Jens Grede]

That's not my people. But some people just have one bucket.

[Emma Grede]

Oh.

[Jens Grede]

I have levels to a relationship, and there's a work level, but that has nothing to do with the fundamentals of my relationship with you or anyone else. I'm in love with you. That's the most important thing. Okay, so that's here. Okay. So now we have this work level. You might have some disagreements, but that's really got nothing to do with all the fundamentals of our relationship or my relationship with anyone else for that matter. Yes, but I think you know how I talk about. You wear different hats.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, you wear different hats. But for a lot of people, that's very hard to understand. And for me, I'll be totally honest with you, when I first met you, that was hard for me to understand. I didn't understand how we would have a massive conflict in work, which you and I have and continue to have sometimes, and then get home and it will be fine. But I do think that that is the point. Like, we have different hats and we are very, very, very, very good at leaving it where it is. Like, it's not personal. Like, with you, it's never personal.

[Jens Grede]

Emma. Boxers shake hands at the end of the match.

[Emma Grede]

Some of them yens, some of them, like the whole crew just jumps in the ring and they all go fucking mental. So it's not everywhere, do they? Hopefully not, no.

[Jens Grede]

But I mean. BOXERS shake HANDS what I'm trying to say is that when I'm on the pitch, when I'm on the court, when I'm at work, I'm there to fucking win. I'm gonna focus on what's gonna make me win, what's gonna make us win, you know, what do I need to do to get to the best result. So just like, there's a scuffle on the court, it doesn't mean that when you watch a game on TV that those guys are, you know, taking that off the court. You know, some pushing and shoving on the court as part of playing basketball doesn't mean that they're not friends. It's the same thing, you know, when I'm at work, I'm in the game. When I'm at home, I'm out of the game. Why would I bring the game home? Just because you gave me a little elbow under the basket doesn't mean I'll take that shit home to roast chicken and potatoes.

[Emma Grede]

It's too true. Thank you for that.

[Jens Grede]

Leave it out the door.

[Emma Grede]

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[Jens Grede]

I want my children to write their own story.

[Emma Grede]

You know, Lola said that to me once.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

When I told her to come to skims and work, she's like, no, mummy, I'm going to write my own story now.

[Jens Grede]

I know that's what you want. I don't want children who defines themselves by their parents.

[Emma Grede]

Amen.

[Jens Grede]

I want them to be them.

[Emma Grede]

But how do you foster that?

[Jens Grede]

You tell me.

[Emma Grede]

How do you do it?

[Jens Grede]

You do you. I don't know. I don't know how you foster it other than leading by example. Generally, I think children are magical. And there's a part of you. And there's a part of me and the part given by God. And they are their own people and we're there to give them love and support and share our experiences and encouragement. But they're going to be who they're going to be. But what I would hate is if they define themselves. If their identity in this world is rooted in their parents success or failure. Why would I want that?

[Emma Grede]

Well, we are. That would be incredibly 100% aligned on that.

[Jens Grede]

Wouldn't that be incredibly selfish?

[Emma Grede]

Incredibly selfish and incredibly sad, quite frankly.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, but it's just selfish.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. Do you have a moment that you think like. I just wonder like what you're most proud of as. Not really as a businessman, but more as like a person. Husband? Father? Yenzi?

[Jens Grede]

Well, first of all, let me tell you that I detest the term businessman.

[Emma Grede]

But you do know that you're a businessman, Jens?

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Like seriously, you're a grown up in the office every day. Like just cause you don't carry a briefcase. You are a businessman. That's how everyone, like all of your staff, all the hundreds of people that work here, that's how they see you. They're like, Emma's a businesswoman and Jens is a businessman. Like it or not. Tough shit.

[Jens Grede]

That's something I will have to process.

[Emma Grede]

Talk to your therapist.

[Jens Grede]

I think I fired my therapist for asking me to do things I didn't want to do. I wasn't willing to do the work.

[Emma Grede]

You weren't willing to do the work. You did a lot of work.

[Jens Grede]

That's awesome.

[Emma Grede]

You can take breaks from your therapist. That's all right, Ausha. What are you most proud of?

[Jens Grede]

Oh, I am the most proud of that I have. I think there was a time in my life when I finished high school. So I was around 18 and I had no plans and I wasn't particularly good at anything. I thought I was really cool. I was, you know, kind of a always out and about, you know, in clubs and this, that and the other. And the irony of our relationship and they asked me earlier, it's like, tell us something that you know we don't know about, Emma.

[Emma Grede]

They got you on social media commitments.

[Jens Grede]

They got some. But I'll tell you something they don't know about you, which is you're incredibly personable and you appear social. You're not a social person. Yeah, you're not a social person. You have a few really good friends. You don't like going out that much. You like to be with the people.

[Emma Grede]

You love for same people for 25 years.

[Jens Grede]

At home. At home, preferably. Please, dear God, no one thinks I'm a social person. I'm the most social person, the most.

[Emma Grede]

All dinner reservations, all group activities, all things with our friends go via you.

[Jens Grede]

I have so many friends. I can't keep up.

[Emma Grede]

It's true.

[Jens Grede]

And I love it. And I love all of them. Yeah, I can do multiple drinks and dinners with different people in the same night just to fit people in.

[Emma Grede]

I'd rather kill myself.

[Jens Grede]

Yes, you tell me that often.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I'm not coming. I'm just not coming.

[Jens Grede]

When I said you want to come and you go, I don't want to kill myself.

[Emma Grede]

I don't want to come. I rather kill myself.

[Jens Grede]

I don't want to do it. So there was this time when I really didn't have a purpose and I felt that I wasn't swimming, I was drowning in that moment. I think I had kind of come out into adulthood thinking somehow as a daydreamer that these daydreams were going to come true. Because I was, I, you know. You know, so I was special, it was going to happen. And then nothing happened. And that negative spiral starts. And from that point and I can pinpoint the day time where I sat in the apartment and I just realized that in the end of the day, and it's not because the world is a cold, loveless place, but people are really busy with their own shit and their own lives and they might be supportive, but only you can help you. You have to take care of yourself. No one cares more about you than you care about yourself. And in that moment, everything changed for me. I went from not getting into college, not having a job, being totally kind of purposeless with really low self esteem, to having a column in the daily newspaper, to being. Having a dream job at the coolest magazine. And my whole life turned around. And within two, three years, I was in London. Within five years I had raised money, started the business, was starting to have some early success in life. So it's having overcome that moment in time and been able to live my life and build a life that I can be proud of. That's the most important thing. Next company, the next idea and investment. Working, not working again. What's the most important thing? The most important thing is that I built the life that I'm proud of. That's really meaningful. And again, when you're faced with adversity, I had what people would refer to as a soft bottom, not a hard bottom. It's not like you totally crashed out but it's a soft bottom. I'm grateful for that moment because I discovered a power in myself in that moment in time and I had never seen it or felt it before. I used to be lazy. I became ambitious. I used to be waiting. I became active. All of these traits that used to drag me down was turned into this positive moment. So I think it was divine intervention.

[Emma Grede]

So knowing that, what advice would you give your 20 year old self about both success and happiness?

[Jens Grede]

It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. I have been so worried about so many of my friends. When I was in my 20s, it all worked out. You know, we were in our early 20s and we have no money. We never understood how we would be able to afford an apartment. How things were going to happen for us and somehow for all of us and you know, many of them. It all worked out.

[Emma Grede]

It all worked out.

[Jens Grede]

It works out. Then you cannot see it. You sit at home, you're scribbling, you're trying to figure out how am I. And I used to think that my whole 20s, how am I ever going to be able to own a property? I couldn't make the math work and I didn't have the money for a deposit. It worked out. But I might be an outlier on that scale. But I was just saying generally it works out. It does work out for most of us if we're at it, if we do the right thing, if we try to do the best with the talent we have again, I've never seen anyone fail. It works out.

[Emma Grede]

So if it all went away tomorrow, like everything, the businesses, the money, the whole lot, what's the first thing that you would do?

[Jens Grede]

I guess I would have to take an unpaid internship here at the Spire. Do it all again. Try to prove my value.

[Emma Grede]

We would take you.

[Jens Grede]

Prove my worth again. If you don't have money, you have your human capital. You have you. So you put that to work.

[Emma Grede]

You better watch out, Joe Rogan. If Jens comes to work for us, I mean, that's what I think. What do you think success feels like today versus when you started?

[Jens Grede]

Well, they keep moving the goalposts. For me. When I was young, I could never have imagined the life that I live today. That would have been far and beyond my greatest expectations. But as you do things in life, the goalpost shifts a lot. It so what success looked to me when I was younger or 10 years ago and what they look like today, of course they have changed and I like to keep them to myself. And the Reason I want to keep my ambition to myself. It's an emergency accident if you don't know it. I don't feel put upon. I don't feel boxed. I don't feel scared of failure. Because the only one that would see it is me. So I rather keep what success looks like to myself. But I can tell you I remind myself all the time about how lucky I am to be where I am today. And if nothing more happened, and if I achieve nothing else, I would still be overjoyed with the life that I built.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, damn right.

[Jens Grede]

You gotta lead with gratefulness. Gotta lead with being grateful.

[Emma Grede]

All right. One more little piece of wisdom from you, Jens. If someone remembered just one thing, like one sentence from you, what would you want it to be?

[Jens Grede]

That if it's not okay, that's okay too. We all catastrophize. We all think that what we're going through is forever. You know when you're a teenager and you're unhappy in love and feels like the world's ending, there's nothing beyond that moment. There's nothing beyond high school. There's nothing beyond that grade. And you can try to tell your children when you come home today not to worry about how the first day in middle school was. That's all they're going to worry about. Middle school is an eternity. Yeah. So. But it's gonna be okay. And I think it's the most important thing for all of us to take with us. That moments don't last forever. There's still water on the other side of the wave. And if you're going for hell, you gotta keep on going.

[Emma Grede]

So good. Okay. I'm gonna take you to rapid fire. You're right at the end.

[Jens Grede]

Let's do it. Let's do it.

[Emma Grede]

All right. The first thing you do when you wake up.

[Jens Grede]

Get you a cup of coffee. And myself.

[Emma Grede]

It is very true. And thank you. Because I think that's the secret to a lasting relationship.

[Jens Grede]

Right. I know how you like it.

[Emma Grede]

Thank you. Damn right. The last thing you do before you go to bed.

[Jens Grede]

Sneakily look at the news. Waiting for you to tell me to stop because it's too late.

[Emma Grede]

Sure.

[Jens Grede]

I mean, normally I would say watching Fraser or Seinfeld or any kind of sitcom that we love. Yeah. Which I love.

[Emma Grede]

Which we love. Re watching.

[Jens Grede]

Sneak a little bit of iPad news there.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I see it. I just let you do it. I just don't want that light near me.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I'm just like.

[Jens Grede]

It's unhealthy.

[Emma Grede]

No, it's not good. It's like I just. Like, I put my phone in the other room and then there's somebody next to you with an iPad.

[Jens Grede]

I go to bed, ready for tomorrow. I'm like, I know what's happening.

[Emma Grede]

Listen, don't we. Don't we just know you are my news. I basically get all of my information from you. And I like the arc of your news. You know, it's the Economist, it's the New York Times, it's the Washington Post, it's Wall Street Journal. And then you've got like the tea for me. Like, you know, if some housewife is, like, something's happening with her, you know that too.

[Jens Grede]

So, you know, if something would happen.

[Emma Grede]

To me, I would know nothing. No news. Jens, what are you currently aspiring to.

[Jens Grede]

In your business, though to continue to surprise and delight our customers? I want to do things that is unexpected. And when they think they have an idea about what skims is and what it will do next, I want to do something that surprises them.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think we're doing so good at that? What are you currently aspiring for in your personal life?

[Jens Grede]

A hobby.

[Emma Grede]

To have a hobby. You're not still on that one?

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, I will never give that up in the end.

[Emma Grede]

You play tennis. You like, what kind of. You go to the gym all the time. You read a lot. Like, what kind of hobby do you want?

[Jens Grede]

You want to stamp your stuff?

[Emma Grede]

I go to collect that.

[Jens Grede]

I go to the gym for you to want to stay married to me and to stay alive so I can be married to you and be around for the children.

[Emma Grede]

Okay. Thank you.

[Jens Grede]

I play tennis because it's the best sport for longevity. Cognitive decline.

[Emma Grede]

Damn right.

[Jens Grede]

Also, it's fun.

[Emma Grede]

Yes. And you're very good at it.

[Jens Grede]

It's a combination of both.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I got it.

[Jens Grede]

Don't say I'm very good at it.

[Emma Grede]

Because I have people listening to this.

[Jens Grede]

Who'S really good at it, and they know I'm not that good at it.

[Emma Grede]

I will say I think you're better than Pietro. Not better than Jason.

[Jens Grede]

That is, I am worse than both of them. Considerably worse. And you're better than me. If you wanted to know what we could be arguing about, it would be the fact that they would ridicule me because I have a wife who loves me so much she thinks I'm better at tennis than them, which I'm not.

[Emma Grede]

I'm not even gonna ask you a book that changed your life. Cause you're not really a book that changed your life type of guy, are you?

[Jens Grede]

I have you to tell me what's.

[Emma Grede]

In the books, and I have you to tell me what's in the news. This is how this partnership works. All right, this question I have for you. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you no longer value?

[Jens Grede]

That's just not how I think. I can't even relate to the question. What do you mean, value?

[Emma Grede]

Okay. Yeah. It's like some people value other people's opinions. Some people think that money is the goal. Like, what's something you thought was important back in the day? I mean, or just explain to us how your brain does think.

[Jens Grede]

Okay. Something that I thought was important to be everywhere to be seen. People think that showing up like, oh, I'm at this event, or I've gotta be seen here. I've got to be at this dinner. And they think that somehow success comes from being seen success and being seen as almost. Unless you're in the public eye, and the public eye is your business. As far as business success, Zero correlation. There's no correlation to that.

[Emma Grede]

Zero correlation.

[Jens Grede]

In fact, I think one of the things that is my. I would say my red flag for investing in companies and in founders if I see them attend too many conferences. Because if you want to go to a conference and everybody to go, oh, my God, I love what you do. I love your startup. And for you to spend all that time talking about something when you have, like 20 stores or sold in one retailer because you have, like, a snickerdoodle brand and you know that's popular in Whole Foods. Like, no, no, don't, don't. Yeah, because you're too in love with the idea of being successful. Be in love with the work. If you're in love with the work, success comes. You'll have time to talk about it when you really have something to be proud of. But don't take this thing and, like, spend all this time talking about something you have yet to create. Create it and talk about it.

[Emma Grede]

Okay. What's something that you value now that you didn't value when you were starting out?

[Jens Grede]

Meditation. Meditation, Meditation. I think meditation is the greatest tool to find clarity, peace, give you energy, joy. I wish I had found meditation earlier. I found prayer when I was a child. But I would say meditation to me has given me a lot in the last five years. I mean, I've been doing it for a long time, much longer than that.

[Emma Grede]

But you become really serious about it in the muscle.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah, yeah. I practice it more diligently and in a different way. I really value meditation.

[Emma Grede]

It's one of my favorite. It's one of my favorite habits that you have, like, introduced me to, because if somebody is meditating in your room at 6am it's almost stupid not to join them. And so I feel like it's one of those things that, by you know, virtue of you being really into it, I've got really into it.

[Jens Grede]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

And it really works. I literally think it's like a tool. And for someone like me who's very highly strung, who's, you know, always on the edge, I feel like it's a really useful thing that just readjusts me and it works for the whole day. It's like whatever you did, whenever I've done it in the morning, I feel like my day pans out differently.

[Jens Grede]

Well, have you ever tried to run and play chess at the same time?

[Emma Grede]

Definitely not, no.

[Jens Grede]

But that's what we do, right? We run through our day. We run for our life, and then we're supporting, opposed to be strategic, have ideas, process, make the right decisions, handle things. So how are we going to do that when our breath is up here?

[Emma Grede]

Impossible.

[Jens Grede]

It's very difficult. It's very difficult. Meditation allows us to ground ourselves so we can make better decisions, so we have better coping mechanisms. Again, you can't run and play chess at the same time. So I don't know why people think they can just run 247 without any time for reflection. And reflection isn't just sitting down and agonizing over what happened or agonizing over what's going to happen tomorrow. It's about allowing you the space for that intuition to do its work, to build. And you'll find a lot of peace and clarity for meditation. So if you don't. For those who don't do it, I really recommend it.

[Emma Grede]

This is, like, a slightly different thing for this podcast, but because it's you, there's a bunch of questions from our team.

[Jens Grede]

Okay.

[Emma Grede]

Okay. And I just chose the really easy ones.

[Jens Grede]

I thought I was nervous before now.

[Emma Grede]

No, these are easy. All right, first question from the team. They want to know, how do we keep the spark alive in our relationship?

[Jens Grede]

I mean, look at you. That's not hard.

[Emma Grede]

Good. Artsy Nancy. It's a lot of work then. Obviously, you and I are very intentional about date nights, but I think the question is, when two people are very busy, like, how do you keep something like that going? And after 17 years, are you just running out of places to go? Why do we keep them? How do we keep them?

[Jens Grede]

I think you have to consciously plan to do things together. But I often can feel like if we have a couple of weeks where we're a little disconnected and we're all running, I kind of feel like there's a hole. I kind of feel like there's a void. And so we normally plan something and do something together. I think it's incredibly important, especially when you have children, to have time just as a couple, because you're more than just parents and you're more than business partners, more than married couple. You're also, you know, best friends and everything else. And you got to give yourself time to do all those things together.

[Emma Grede]

Definitely. All right, this is a strange question, but they want to know what was the moment that you knew you were in love with me?

[Jens Grede]

I don't know.

[Emma Grede]

That's very you answer.

[Jens Grede]

I don't know. I don't know the moment I knew, but when I knew, I fucking knew. I just never had less doubt about anything. I can't pinpoint it, you know, I don't know. You're very lovable.

[Emma Grede]

I know the exact moment, on the other hand. But that's fine.

[Jens Grede]

I know. I'm so disappointing to ask these questions.

[Emma Grede]

No, you're the least disappointing person in the world. Thank you, my darling.

[Jens Grede]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Emma Grede]

If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddy Sprung Keyser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Salouja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at the lead company and wme. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meekol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for the me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D e. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website emagreed me.