← Aspire with Emma Grede
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- [00:01]
A
I am so excited to share my debut book with you all, Start With Yourself which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended. A conversation that will make you think and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start With Yourself is about self leadership because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and never gatekeeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes, I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins and never ever apologizing for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal, alignment is, and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emmagree.com to purchase the book. Also available on Amazon, your favorite audio platforms and all good bookshops. So today I'm speaking to Tory Burch, one of the founders that I admire the most. Tory Burch has built an incredible American luxury brand worth billionaire billions of dollars. What we're going to talk about today is how she built a billion dollar brand from her apartment in New York, why ambition is still a dirty word for women, and why she decided to step down as CEO of her own company when so few women get to occupy that space. You will not want to miss this episode. And whatever you do, don't forget to like and subscribe. One of the things we've always cared about as skims is that intimate shouldn't ask you to choose. You shouldn't have to pick between something that good and something that actually supports you. That compromise has existed in this category for way too long. Our fabric everyday cotton is the latest expression of that we wanted to create something that feels as easy as your favorite broken in T shirt, but it's still designed with real structure and intention. The cotton is soft and breathable in a way that you feel immediately, but it holds its shape. It moves with your body instead of working against it. If I had to pick a favorite, it's a triangle bra paired with the hipster. It's lightweight, it disappears under clothes, and there's just no adjusting halfway through the day. That's the standard. You put it on and forget about it because it's doing exactly what it should. We built Skims around the idea that the pieces closest to your body deserve the most thought. Everyday cotton is the same philosophy in its simplest form. Shop everyday cotton and all of my favorite bras and underwear@skims.com and after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you podcast in the survey and make sure you select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Tory Burch, welcome to Aspire.
- [03:35]
B
Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.
- [03:38]
A
When I think about you and what you've done, you've built one of America's most iconic fashion brands, which is so incredible, we're talking billions of dollars in sales, 400 stores around the world, which is so incredible. A true global brand. And I've been reading and researching and I really want to take people back to the beginning and to understand exactly where you were when you decided to go and do that friends and family round. Take a bet on yourself. It takes such an enormous amount of ambition. Where were you and why did you have such certainty that you could actually do this?
- [04:14]
B
Yeah. Well, let's start with I had a career that I loved and I was working for lvmh, working for Loewe, and I got pregnant with my third son. So I had three boys under the age of four. And so I was traveling to Paris and Spain and realized that I wouldn't be able to be a great mom. So I had to make one of those decisions that a lot of women have to. And it was really choosing being a mom over a career. And that was a really hard choice. I mean, it wasn't hard to choose being a great mom, but it was hard to give up a career that I loved. And so it was during the time that I was a stay at home mom that I worked on this concept because I knew I wanted to go back to work. I just didn't know what that work would be. So in tandem, I was working on a school Starting a school. And I was also working on starting a company. And it was about reviving a company from the 60s and 70s that my mom used to wear. It was called Jax.
- [05:08]
A
Really?
- [05:09]
B
Yeah.
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A
That's what you were going to do?
- [05:10]
B
I was going to do it. I worked on it for months and decided finally that the school would go off to the side. I would try to start this company. And there was this great entrepreneur named Sally Hanson, and she had hired Rudi Gernreich, who was the designer at the time. They started this company called Jaxx. And the best way to describe it is, like, it was great pieces that were impossible, and Audrey Hepburn wore it. Jackie O, all these incredibly stylish people.
- [05:36]
A
What happened to Jack?
- [05:37]
B
And so it went out of business, but I had a lot of the clothes because my mother wore it. And so I did all of this research. I spent months on it, and I got in touch with this incredible woman named Corbie who used to run their New York showroom. She ended up getting me in touch with Sally Hansen. And after months of work and a giant presentation, I got her on the phone.
- [05:57]
A
Are we talking Sally Hansen?
- [05:59]
B
Like, hard as nails?
- [06:00]
A
Yes, Sally Hansen.
- [06:01]
B
That's Sally Hansen. She's an incredible entrepreneur. And so I called her. I got every bit of courage up to give her a call, and 30 seconds later, I realized it was a hard no. So that's when.
- [06:12]
A
How'd you take that?
- [06:13]
B
I was just blown away because no didn't occur to me. And so I thought it was going to be a given that it would be called Jax. And it was. So I had to start over.
- [06:22]
A
Did you immediately decide, okay, I'm gonna go and do my own thing? Like, how long did it take you? When you've got a vision for something and then you get that type of knockback, sometimes that can be hard to take. Like, what did you do?
- [06:33]
B
I went and I started to think about branding, and then I hired a branding company, and I started to think about an interior designer called David Hicks. That was a big inspiration. My parents had books on him. My mother loved his work. And I was like, okay, if I'm going to do a company, I didn't want it to be my name. I was trying to get so many different names, none of which I could get. I launched with a terrible name and also a logo. And it was because I couldn't get Jax. And that was why. That was the start of me doing my own thing.
- [07:06]
A
Are you absolutely kidding?
- [07:08]
B
So it was totally unintentional. It was not my Plan. But I had to pick that crazy.
- [07:12]
A
So how did it turn into Tory Burch? Your name and this kind of initial friends and family round that you know,
- [07:19]
B
well, so that takes a little bit of a while. I started it with my ex husband who had a history of a company called Eagle's Eye. So he did the production in Hong Kong and so he had that knowledge. So we started this company. I had this logo. People had so many different opinions. I had this idea it was contrary to everything that people had told me to do. So it was a direct to consumer concept. It was an e commerce site. Direct to consumer.
- [07:46]
A
Which year was this?
- [07:47]
B
It was 2004. So it was planning in 2003, but no one was selling online. So people told me no one would ever buy online. So I launched with an out of the way store down on Elizabeth street and an E commerce site. And the very first day we realized we were onto something.
- [08:04]
A
What was it that gave you that idea?
- [08:06]
B
You know, it was just first of all, the work leading up to that was excruciating. It was like flying back and forth to Asia, managing three boys, working out of my apartment. So there are all these things that went into it. The opening day, it was. I had grown up in fashion and had this great career. So it was press, it was friends, family. And we opened 10 in the morning till 6 at night. And it was almost as if it was building throughout the day. People were hearing about it and then coming down. It was during fashion Week. Never could have imagined or planned. It just was one of these things that just sort of started to take shape and we realized we basically sold through our inventory.
- [08:44]
A
What were you imagining at that point in time? Like, did you have a vision that it could be anything like it is today?
- [08:51]
B
Well, I had. I hear myself and some of the things I said and I at the time, in retrospect, had no idea what I was talking about. I said I wanted to build a global lifestyle brand so I could start a foundation. That was my. That was my.
- [09:05]
A
I heard people told you not to say that.
- [09:07]
B
Everyone told me not to say it.
- [09:08]
A
They're like, just leave the foundation part.
- [09:10]
B
They patted me like, oh, that's charity work. And they said, that is just the worst idea. But I had this like vision. And I don't know exactly how I got to this point, but I knew that I had this feeling that purpose and business went hand in hand. And if you could, doing good is good for business. And that was sort of my theory.
- [09:29]
A
Yeah, I mean, that was really early on. And I remember when we started Good American, we had the same. I remember looking at your brand and saying to our board at that point, I was like, well, Tori's doing it, like. And you were the only ones that were doing it and doing it successfully.
- [09:47]
B
There was someone else.
- [09:48]
A
They were like, park it for now.
- [09:49]
B
You know. Who else is Tom's? I was kind of. Yeah.
- [09:52]
A
Toms was maybe around the same time. Although it was just. Yeah. Because it was like a single ski. You know, it was like just this one shoe. It felt different, but we were really benchmarking. I remember in the beginning going like, there is so like, Tori is doing this and she seems to be like, making a business out of business.
- [10:07]
B
Doing my best. I'm not sure you said early on
- [10:09]
A
that you didn't feel like a designer. How long did it take you to kind of own that part of your work?
- [10:15]
B
I would say, you know, a long time. I have to say, I didn't have. I didn't go to business school, I didn't go to design school. So for me to consider myself a designer just because I started a company, it was a stretch in my own imagination. I didn't feel like it. I didn't feel it internally. So it was kind of. You mentioned in one of your no imposter syndrome. I don't know that I had that, but I didn't feel that I had earned it. And I felt like I had to get the knowledge. And throughout the years, I would say probably 10 years, until I felt I had the technical skillset where I really felt like I was a competent designer.
- [10:52]
A
You started the company with your husband and that's no longer the arrangement that you have now. So I'm interested to understand what was kind of happening behind the scenes there.
- [11:00]
B
Yeah, I mean, it was rough. I had this idea it was us putting a lot of money into it from our personal funds. That was not a tremendous amount, but for us at the time it was. And then going to 120 friends and family. And I was first of all terrified about taking people's money. That was one of the things that kept me up every night. And I just said to them, invest what you can lose. Because I was really worried that I'm doing a startup.
- [11:29]
A
That was your pitch, Dory.
- [11:30]
B
That was my pitch. But I said, listen, this is what I'm going to do, but don't put in money that you don't have lose, because it's a risk. And I'm a careful risk taker. But I am a risk taker. And so he never worked with me in the office, but he helped me set the whole company up. But what we realized, or what I realized very early on, is fundamentally, we're incredibly different the way we saw building a brand. And I can say that now because, you know, we're great friends now, but it was incredibly rough for a long time. I mean, going through, well, two things. A very public divorce and having six kids that I love dearly and wanted to protect, and being a very private person, but then also a very public lawsuit where he decided to build a brand that looked like a cheap version of our brand.
- [12:17]
A
I mean, I will tell you, I remember when that happened.
- [12:20]
B
It was shocking.
- [12:21]
A
It was shocking, but it was like the talk of the town. Like, it was a thing. And I remember even that was like, in the early days when I'd really started to understand investing and I knew people around me that had kind of been like, well, here's the next Tory Burch. And I was like, hang about one second.
- [12:38]
B
I mean, it was bad. He would say things in a board meeting like, you're a PR girl. It was really bad. And so I can laugh with him about it now because he told me it was a 10 year misunderstanding. So we've moved on. That's a very eloquent way to put it. I've always wanted to get along with him. He's the father of my. And he's great, and I adore him now, but what he put me through is just hard to believe.
- [13:00]
A
How did you have the confidence and I guess the wherewithal to understand how you were gonna get yourself out of that sit? Because right now it kind of feels like you're sitting on top of the world. But I imagine at that time, it's very difficult when somebody literally sets up what was perceived outwardly to be your competition. You obviously have a family together, and so the dynamics are really difficult. So as a business person, how did you even. How did you deal with all of that?
- [13:26]
B
I mean, I feel like work was a bit of a refuge and a safety. It was for me. I've always wanted to think about culture and an environment for women. And I, in a way, built that for myself. And it was a place where I could go and feel safe. And not that it was unsafe being with him, but it was a terrible time. And so I think that I had this relentless drive. I'm not sure exactly where that came from, or I think I might. I've always, you know, thinking a lot about our conversation. I thought a lot about Ambition. And I've always been ambitious, even though I didn't realize that's what I was like. Even from working at Benetton in high school or starting a sorority at Penn or whatever, it. I didn't realize that it was a negative to be that way until this article in the New York Times was written on me. And I shied away from that word.
- [14:14]
A
So will you just speak a little bit for anyone who hasn't seen that article? Will you talk about that for me?
- [14:19]
B
So there was an article the first year of our business, and it said, don't call her a socialite. I recently reread it. The journalists asked me if I was ambitious, and at the time, it was a very derogatory expression for women. And so I. I clearly shied away from the word in the article. Jane Rosenthal called me up, and she said, great article. Don't you ever shy away from your ambition? And it was something that was like a light switch for me. It was immediate. I realized she was absolutely right. I was mad at myself because I prided myself on thinking I could do anything a man could do. It never occurred to me that I shouldn't be proud of being ambitious. So it became sort of something I wanted to really clear up for me and for women.
- [15:06]
A
I love that. And clear it up. You did. Because I think it's really interesting, having just come out of this process of writing this book and now releasing the book. Ambition is such a tricky subject for so many women. And the negative connotations, even now, 20 years later, are still there. When we talk about a man's ambition, we conjure up all of these images of something great and exciting. And as soon as we say she's ambitious, we're maybe thinking about a little bit of a bitch somehow.
- [15:34]
B
She's rough. She's a bitch. She's like all of those things, distasteful.
- [15:38]
A
How much do you think has changed in that time?
- [15:39]
B
I think it hasn't changed enough. And if I'm really analyzing it, I think if you ask my three boys, they think it's changed, which is interesting,
- [15:48]
A
but I love that.
- [15:50]
B
I'll take it. And that's a bit of hope. I think it's also the pressure you put on yourself. And we as women, put on ourselves and believe in these negative stereotypes. And that's something that we need to stop and collectively and support each other. But we need men to support us, too.
- [16:05]
A
We need all the things.
- [16:06]
B
I don't want to have the conversation with just women, because we'll get Nowhere.
- [16:10]
A
Well, I think that's a really, really fair point. I remember years ago when Sheryl Sandberg wrote Lean In. I went out. At the time I ran an agency and I went out and bought it for every woman in my organization. Read the first three chapters and went back out and bought it for every man.
- [16:26]
B
That's great.
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A
When I think about my own book, I'm like, this needs to be something that men read and something that women also read. I don't want it to go one way because as you quite rightly say, we need men. We need men in so many different ways in business.
- [16:39]
B
Or else we'll be talk, talking to ourselves for the rest of time.
- [16:44]
A
So I really wanted to talk to you. You're such an expert in what it actually takes to create a brand and build a business. So let's go back to those early days when you went and did that friends and family round. You're calling 120 people to actually ask them to invest. What were you saying? What were you thinking? What were you pitching?
- [17:03]
B
I mean, I had this gall in a way and vision, and I was determined. I think even our biggest investor, who told me never to say purpose in business, I called him maybe three years ago and I said, it's so funny you said that. I still remember that expression you said to me and I just came from a conference that doing good is good for business. And he's like, okay, what do you want? And I said, a check for the foundation, naturally. I mean, there are so many things that happened constantly of things that you were being put in your place or things that you shouldn't say it quite like that or you should think this way. I think it was a lot of noise to me. That's one thing I learned from my parents is that negativity is noise. And so I learned to tune things out and I learned to be a good listener, take it in, but not necessarily take it to heart and not take it personally. More often than not, not take it personally. Of course, sometimes it gets personal and I try to not be emotional, particularly in a board meeting. I've learned that lesson. It's much more effective.
- [18:09]
A
It's much more effective. I can't cry.
- [18:11]
B
I just want to be more effective.
- [18:12]
A
I can't say that I haven't cried outside many a board meeting.
- [18:15]
B
Yeah, but I had to learn that. I mean, you can imagine what I went through. I remember one of our partners told my ex husband to leave it at the door. Wow, I really like that.
- [18:25]
A
Wow, that's just incredible.
- [18:26]
B
Yeah, but it was hard, the beginning. You know, some people would look at me and say, do you go to the office? I haven't had lunch in 21 years. I can't even imagine. I work as hard, if not harder than anyone. And it's been this incredible journey. It's work that I love. So it doesn't feel like work, but it's shocking sometimes to think people question that and think that it just happened out of thin air.
- [18:49]
A
I love that they asked you that. Cause I think I'm asked on average once a day, including today. Do you actually work here? And I'm like five days a week.
- [18:58]
B
That's something they would never say to a man ever.
- [19:02]
A
Ever.
- [19:02]
B
That's something which is, you know.
- [19:04]
A
And I don't want to sound whiny, but I think that the, you know, I'm looking think about an article that came out yesterday, which was the first article about my book, and the headline was a headline that would never be written about a man, about how long I choose to spend with my children every day. And I just thought, wow, that's really.
- [19:20]
B
I haven't seen that in a very, very reputable newspaper.
- [19:24]
A
I will tell you. Not trash, you know, magazine stuff. And it's interesting to me. That's why it bothers me.
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B
And I'm curious if they did. Did they list your age? Absolutely, because they never do that with men. That's something I want to clear up as well. It's crazy. Every article that's ever been written about me lists my age. And I've never seen an article on a man where they list their age. Have you?
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A
I'm really thinking about it now. They don't list men's ages, but how
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B
dare they say that to you? How many hours?
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A
I kind of shrugged it off. Because you should. It was one of those moments where the Internet did what the Internet does best. And every single woman was in the comments.
- [20:04]
B
I would comment myself.
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A
What is this all about?
- [20:06]
B
That's crazy.
- [20:07]
A
What is this all about? I want to go back and talk to you about this, you know, because you were starting in E Commerce when no one, especially in the luxury space, was really in it. What was it that you saw that perhaps other brands missed?
- [20:18]
B
I mean, for me, it was a scrappy way of reaching our customer. And so I had to be resourceful because we didn't have big budgets, we didn't have a lot of money. We started on a little shop on Elizabeth street because the rent was so cheap. There was nothing there. And that's why I used social media and PR to build the company. We never did traditional advertising because we didn't have the budget, so we had to be resourceful.
- [20:41]
A
As I said, I'm interested in understanding what you chose in terms of categories and expansion. Who gave you that blueprint?
- [20:49]
B
Well, no one did. In fact, from day one, I launched with 10 categories and I was told not to do that. And just the idea, as I mentioned, direct to consumer. But for me, it was lifestyle. I think everything from a strategic standpoint that I started with is still relevant today. And that's exciting because we launched with 10 categories, so. So then we sort of built them through time. But I was early adopters of technology. It was something I'm still obsessed with. I think it's so. I mean, when you look at what's happening now, it's kind of hard to decide what to do and what to jump onto. Back then, when you think you had an E commerce site, which was revolutionary. So that was one thing, Instagram. Then you had Twitter. But I was on it, and I was really interested in thinking, how do you use this to connect with people?
- [21:37]
A
So tell me a little bit about the catalyst for the brand really taking off. Because I think about two things. I think about this big Oprah moment, and then I think about the shoe. And you could not put down my mother, the shoe, your mother, the Reba. But you couldn't walk down the street without seeing that bloody flat absolutely everywhere. And I remember, like, I would go to Selfridges and there would just be a queue of women waiting for this shoe in any color that they could possibly get their hands on, which is so crazy to me.
- [22:06]
B
It's so crazy. I mean, listen, Oprah was the first year of business, and Adam Glassman was a friend, and we worked together, and he gave Oprah some clothes for Christmas. And they were doing a show on the Next Big Thing. And when they first called me, I thought it was a joke. I have three brothers. We are constantly playing practical jokes. I'm like, oh, okay. Playing along with it. And so I realized it was real, that they wanted me to come to Chicago and be on the show and have a fashion show. And so I'll never forget it, because when I saw Oprah, she's like, well, you've been on TV before. I'm like, no, and so sorry.
- [22:39]
A
She said, don't.
- [22:40]
B
Don't worry. It's only 8 million. No, 30 million viewers. And so what was great is I had an E commerce site. And they did explain how we had to Back it up. And it didn't crash. We had 8 million heads the next day and the next following week. And so we were prepared.
- [22:55]
A
That was year one, year one, year one. So talk me through. How did things then scale? Like, what did it actually look like for the business?
- [23:02]
B
So I had a plan of, I think, three stores in the first five years. It became seven, and then it just went on from there. But I was traveling nonstop. I had these three babies, three boys growing and trying to be a CEO and creative and manage both.
- [23:21]
A
How did you do it? How did you take your family? And what was going on in your personal life and this incredible brand that was on such a crazy trajectory. How did you do it?
- [23:33]
B
You know, I think I am very good at compartmentalizing. And I also have. Have this drive. I think it's almost the opposite of my father. He never had a proper job. He was taught that he didn't have to work. And so my brothers and I all saw that, and we went the opposite way. And it gave me more drive. But at the same time, we saw money come and go. And I will never forget the conversations that I had with my mother, saying, you always need to be financially independent. And that's something that she raised me with since I was a little. I remember it was a conversation when she was telling me she got a credit card in her name for the first time, which is 1972 or three, which is shocking. And she was saying how she never wanted to rely on her husband, a boyfriend, anyone, to be financially secure. And so that is something I was raised with. And I think that is where my drive comes from.
- [24:33]
A
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- [26:05]
B
As you know, something happens every day. It's almost grace under pressure. And the more frenetic things get, I get more focused. And that's something I get from my father. My mom is a bit different.
- [26:17]
A
You've also said that you were a real risk taker. And I love. I want to dig into the risk thing a little bit more because that's something that I think so many women struggle with, like actually taking big risks. Because if you don't, I mean, you would never have a brand like you have today.
- [26:32]
B
No, you're right. And I inherently am a risk taker and even a personal. I used to go bungee jumping. I used to do all these crazy sporty things that were probably not safe. So. But I have an older brother who helped me build the brand and he was always dialing me back. So I'm the one who is always pushing. And then he would be pulling. And so we have this tension and I think that was very important. And he's still with me today. Is he? Yes. I could never have done this company without him, Robert. And he really helped me. He came after the company was two years old. He sold his company and I convinced him to come on board and he's really helped me build it.
- [27:12]
A
When you look back, what do you think have been some of your personal biggest wins?
- [27:16]
B
The foundation has to be a win, but I think the company, I look at it as a second family. Our employees are. I'm great at picking great talents and great people and surrounding myself with incredible people. So that's a win.
- [27:31]
A
You've always been good at that.
- [27:32]
B
I think I am good at that. And I think I've learned when I'm not good at it to react and quicker. I haven't always done it quick enough and I think I definitely try things and I've learned how to hire better and take my time more and not hire quickly. I think I never try to hire when I'm desperate for a role. That's a piece of advice I give to entrepreneurs. Take your time and get to know someone and Get a lot of references.
- [28:00]
A
That's great advice. You really need a lot of references. It's amazing how many people don't reference.
- [28:05]
B
Well, that or believe in a culture. You know, our culture is really unique for our company, and that's not a culture that everyone fits into.
- [28:13]
A
And what is that culture?
- [28:15]
B
Well, it's one that is. I want a safe environment for people. I want people to be treated beautifully. I expect great work, but I want a great place to.
- [28:24]
A
To work. You have 5,000 employees, I think. I mean, nuts to even think about. So what are you like as a leader? And how much have you learned and have to change and shift and adapt?
- [28:35]
B
I mean, I've learned everything. But I will say that one thing I don't do is I don't micromanage people. And I think I let them shine. And that's something I love to do. And it makes people feel great, but it's because it's real. And then you get their best work.
- [28:50]
A
So.
- [28:50]
B
So I think I'm patient. Not always. I'm definitely a perfectionist. It's not always easy, but it's always coming from a good place. And out of respect.
- [29:00]
A
Leadership is something that no one teaches it to you. You know, you have to find your way.
- [29:06]
B
How are you?
- [29:08]
A
I think a little bit similar to what you're saying. I have extremely high expectations, but both on myself and on everyone.
- [29:16]
B
But you'll do everything. You're asking someone else to do everything.
- [29:18]
A
I'll do absolutely everything. And I think that there's a respect level because I've come up through the ranks. It's like I've done all the jobs. I understand exactly what I'm asking somebody for. So there's not that.
- [29:29]
B
But I don't know about you, but I can work around the clock. And you have to be careful of that.
- [29:34]
A
That's literally. You took the words out of my mouth. I think that what I've had to be really careful of is expecting the same energy level that I have. And of course, as a founder, as the entrepreneur, as the name on the door, as you are, there is an expectation that you have that not everybody else has to share. But I think that that was harder for me to understand. Maybe in the early.
- [29:54]
B
Yeah, it is hard. And you are working. It doesn't feel like work for you, but that's not always the case for people. They have a family, they have commitments, and that's something you have to remember.
- [30:04]
A
Yeah. And you have to balance that a little bit. You said that women have to make Decisions that men simply don't. What do you mean by that?
- [30:10]
B
Well, I mean, women have expectations, whether they put it on themselves or societal. And I think whether it's being the caretaker, taking care of the children or their parents, and we certainly see that with COVID and our entrepreneurs, women are the first to give up a career. When I talk about ambition with women, I remember phrasing it saying, whatever ambition means to you, whether it's being a stay at home mom or a CEO, it's really about living on your own terms. And that's something that's really important. And that's how I look at being ambitious. But women just are held to different standards, and that's something that is not changing. Yeah, it has to change.
- [30:49]
A
I couldn't agree with you more. I made. I mean, I love that you say whatever ambition means to you. The reason I called my book Start With Yourself was for exactly that reason. Because you have to start with your ambition, your vision, how you want to live, what type of woman you want to be. And that's very different for different people. But I do think that we're still in a place, in a space for so many women where there are a series of thoughts or ideas that exist in the culture that do hold women back, that do make women have to keep themselves small and even holding yourself back.
- [31:24]
B
Right.
- [31:25]
A
And that's part of it. And I really want to talk more openly about that because I do think that, you know, sometimes maybe the reluctance to talk about money or the reluctance to come across as too ambitious or the reluctance to, you know, maybe exhibit some type of behavior that's not deemed so eloquent and elegant can be holding women back. So what advice would you give to a woman who's been labeled as too ambitious?
- [31:52]
B
Well, I would say tune it out. That negativity is noise. And I'm not sure what that means. You know, I think that it's something that should be celebrated and it shouldn't be around gender. Ambition should be a personal thing, and people should think about what ambition means to them. But it's not something to have a negative connotation around women. And that's something that has to be addressed. And I think it's a conversation that just needs to continue. When I started 20 years ago, there weren't a lot of role models for women.
- [32:23]
A
No, there really weren't. Which is one of the main reasons I love to do this show. Because I think the more we see examples like you in the culture, the more we can understand it and we can see ourselves in it, and we can envisage it, but not if we don't have the conversation. I'm interested how motherhood, like, shaped your approach to business and to leadership. I understand that there were probably trade offs that you had to make, but what did that really look like in practice?
- [32:47]
B
I mean, one thing I would never trade off was being a good. And that was something I never thought I could start a business if that were to have to happen.
- [32:55]
A
But what does that look like to you, Tori? Because I feel like even that in of itself, like what it means to be a good mom, it's different for everybody. What was it for you and what did you need to do that?
- [33:06]
B
I. Well, first of all, I was, you know, my husband was there, but not, you know, when we got divorced. I was raising my kids a lot on my own. So it was being at the doctor, going to a lacrosse game. It was also starting a company that allowed women to be able to do that and, and not penalize them for that. And so I thought, how do you build a culture around flexibility?
- [33:27]
A
How have you been able to do that?
- [33:29]
B
I have done it. And what I say is that as long as it gets done, I'm not really clocking how it gets done.
- [33:35]
A
Same. I think the same. And I think you create those conditions so much yourself. Like, I leave the office every day at 5. That's because I like to go home and I like to do bath and bedtime and story. But it creates the conditions for everybody else to leave at 5.
- [33:47]
B
And I used to do that. Maybe not at 5, but I. I would be a stickler for being at home. I would say if anything suffered, it was my social life. But I listen to Ice Wolf gave stuff that was fine with me. But I will say, like, being a mom is the joy of my life. And I often say I'm a survivor of raising three boys because it's hard, it's not always easy. And they look at me now, they're in their 20s, and they apologize for what they put me through. I mean, three boys in New York City, you can imagine.
- [34:14]
A
Oh, no, I can't.
- [34:15]
B
And they're three little, like torturers. They used to bully me. And so.
- [34:19]
A
But I'm taught, because you're so dinky and they're.
- [34:21]
B
And they're giant. But I'm very tough. So I was a tough mom. And I think, yes, very tough. And I think, and when you say
- [34:27]
A
like a tough mom, like you had to have rules and a schedule, like, what do you mean?
- [34:31]
B
I Had rules. I was on them. I was like a investigator just to
- [34:38]
A
keep everybody in check.
- [34:38]
B
Keep everybody in check.
- [34:39]
A
Keep everybody in check. Do you feel like there were sacrifices that you made because of the children in the business?
- [34:47]
B
You know, I think I manage, and I'm not sure if I feel that it was a sacrifice. I think I managed. I guess the only thing that was sacrificed is my sleep. I still don't sleep. I would, you know, get the kids handled and put to bed and then start work. But it was enjoyable. I'm not complaining. But at the same time, I will say I can turn it off very easily, too. So I have, yeah, I have a lot of outside passions that I love.
- [35:14]
A
When you speak to women that are, you know, perhaps debating starting something or leaving a job, having a family, when to do it, like, what is the advice that you.
- [35:24]
B
I tell them that they have to do what's right for them. And starting a family is something that a lot of women feel the need to do. And so for me, like, I don't want women to have to make that choice of leaving a job because of that. So that's something that I question whether they're at the right working environment, if they feel that they have to do that. That's a big conversation we have. Is, are you working in the right place? Is that something? Are you going to feel like you're going to be left behind? A. A lot of bankers, they feel like if they have a child, it's over for them from scaling.
- [36:01]
A
Yeah, you know, I see that so much. Do you think that the idea of what it means to be a mother or a parent has changed in like the last 20 years? Like when you see social media and you think about what it means to be a mother right now, do you see big differences at all?
- [36:19]
B
I think people are deciding whether they want to have children in a different. And I see a lot of people choosing not to as well. They don't feel like they can do that.
- [36:30]
A
Parenting hasn't changed that much. The expectations on parenting has changed enormously. I think when we're watching people on social media kind of do insane things around their children. I don't know, like making a really, like, elaborate pack lunch, for example. You know, the pressure and that's just like a small.
- [36:49]
B
The perfection of it all.
- [36:50]
A
That level of like, okay, like, I'm just gonna over parent the situation. I'm gonn create these insane schedules and these insane lunches.
- [36:57]
B
In a way, I'm glad I marry my kid.
- [36:59]
A
I mean.
- [36:59]
B
Yeah.
- [37:00]
A
Because I think that women do absorb, that they do look in their feet
- [37:04]
B
and think that they feel they're inadequate. Absolutely. And it's not real.
- [37:07]
A
And it's a pressure on. It's not real. It's not real. I think there are many ways to come into parenting, and my point of view is that I don't think children need nearly as much as we might think they do.
- [37:19]
B
Well, we know that the whole concept of a helicopter model and is a real thing. And so I think kids. I used to entertain myself outside in a country. Oh, yeah.
- [37:30]
A
We were left to our own devices.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
I mean, if there was an apple in the house, my mum was like, they'll be fine.
- [37:36]
B
But I remember during COVID my boys were enjoying Miami a little too much, so I sent them to work with Navy SEALs in North Carolina.
- [37:44]
A
No, you did. You really are a tough one.
- [37:46]
B
It is the best decision. If they wanted a bath, they had to build it.
- [37:50]
A
So.
- [37:50]
B
So it was like we were all
- [37:52]
A
taking it easy during the day.
- [37:53]
B
No.
- [37:53]
A
But we were going out to parties
- [37:55]
B
in Miami during COVID You're like, no, no, this is over.
- [37:58]
A
You're like, that is not what we're doing. Was that a hard time for you in the business? Oh, my God.
- [38:03]
B
I mean, it was brutal. It was brutal, right?
- [38:06]
A
It was so brutal.
- [38:07]
B
If you think about 5,000 employees, you think about, well, at that point, 375 stores shut. We had no visibility on when they would open, if they would open. And we had to pay health care. And so I was trying to figure out, how do we do the payroll so people could get health care? And it was very real because that march, someone very close to me that had worked with me for 15 years, I was in a meeting with her on Friday, and on Monday she was dead. And it was from COVID And I just knew she hadn't come to a meeting and I was really worried about her and that it was four days after I was with her and she. Anyway, so we knew it was incredibly serious and it was incredibly tough.
- [38:51]
A
How does Tori cope in a crisis?
- [38:54]
B
Well, I get better in a crisis. I don't want to say that because I don't want to. I don't want.
- [38:57]
A
I don't want you to be tested.
- [38:58]
B
I don't want to keep them coming. But I do get pretty. I get better and more focused in a crisis. I think I was also trying to help our industry and working with the government and trying to get payroll for, like. And getting our industry to be considered as big as the food industry or the air because we're talking about over 14 million jobs.
- [39:20]
A
Most people during COVID kind of went into a hole and was like, okay, let me just, like, see when this can go away. But you're out there fighting for your industry, having bigger conversations, trying to expand into new spaces. I think the same with the foundation. It's so much bigger than the business and the brand in so many ways. In terms of, like, really changing people's lives. Where does that come from?
- [39:41]
B
Being able to have a company that can. Can be responsible for positive change is something that is very inspiring to me. That's why I started our company is not only to be financially independent, because that was part of it, but it was also how can we impact as many people as we possibly can? And I would say that came from me. Since I was a very little girl, I've always wanted to help people. I grew up in a kind of crazy environment of my parents taking so many different kinds of people in, never knowing who's gonna be at the dinner table. Like having a kennel of German shepherds. We had 50 shepherds. My parents would have all these kind of crazy people come. And so I just saw a lot of interesting, different kind of people. And I also saw a lot of people who struggled. My little brother, who he adopted, he came with his mother. She had schizophrenia. So I saw a lot of the hardship of mental illness and what that meant. And so I've always wanted to give back. And I thought if the company could do that, that that's such a win. It's such a win for the bottom line. Also, Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before. Like access to the trade desk. Our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy. Gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24. 7 professional answers and live help. And access support by phone, email, and in platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more@schwab.com trading a wave of skincare
- [41:25]
A
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- [43:38]
B
Yeah, I mean, well, it was my business plan from day one, so for me that was something that was in my head. I think it was a long conversation of getting people to understand it and believe in it. And also I was really worried when I first launched the foundation, started the foundation in 2009. I never wanted it to be perceived as marketing in any way, so I didn't really talk about it and I wanted the work to start speaking for itself. We started with mentor events where I would have 10 incredible people in business and I'd invite 100 women entrepreneurs and it was like speed dating for the night. And it was really valuable, just some of the gems or lessons they learned. And so that was the beginning. But you know, there was a lot of negativity. That's one thing we haven't touched on. There's so many articles written that were just incredibly negative.
- [44:28]
A
Did it get to you?
- [44:29]
B
Yeah, of course it did. I think one thing my mom always said is don't read it. And so I really don't read a lot of it because it was very hurtful. It was a vanity project. It was the foundation. Why do you need to work like there's goes back to perception and reality. We didn't have a lot of money. Everyone thought we did, but that's not the reality of what it was. So when we made an investment into our company, it was a big deal for us. So there were so many different things I was dealing with.
- [44:57]
A
Did you ever get angry about that? How do you react when you read things about yourself and when the perception's so strong?
- [45:04]
B
I got used to it. I don't know that I got angry. I would say I would get hurt for a minute and then I'd move on. I'm a good recoverer and I don't. I say to myself, you just have to be. It's very freeing to let things go. I'm very good at letting things go, and I don't hold things well. You always like that, Always like that. I can't have the negativity around me. It's not a place I feel comfortable.
- [45:27]
A
I mean, there was a moment when your brand faced a fair bit of criticism, changing consumer sentiment. I wonder how you navigated that period.
- [45:37]
B
You know, it's funny, like, everyone says, you're back and you have this. As they've used so many different words to describe our reinvention and our evolution. I said to my boys, I'm like, I didn't know I went anywhere.
- [45:50]
A
She thought, what?
- [45:52]
B
Listen, I had this idea, like, I realized that the creative process was something I was so passionate about in the beginning and so involved in as I started building the business. The CEO role is something that really overtook me. And so I was the CEO for 14 years. Years. Building a company and running, managing a company. What I realized is that I was missing what I was really passionate about, and that was the design and creativity.
- [46:18]
A
That's a big decision, though, and one that I find specifically for female founders can really often elude them. They either don't leave at the right time and assume a new position, or they don't think that they're right to be the CEO. Will you just talk to me a little bit more about what that time looked like? Because I'm assuming when it's your name on the door, you just assume. Assume the identity as the CEO.
- [46:42]
B
But it was in.
- [46:44]
A
You could afford it to bring somebody else.
- [46:46]
B
I could have, but it was like I just became it because it was. I was doing it. I again had a great team of people. So that said, I did try to hire a co CEO at one point, which did not work out.
- [46:58]
A
I remember. Yeah. So we all write about it.
- [47:00]
B
Yeah. I'm sure everything has been written about in one way or another. But, you know, listen, I tried. And it was four years of trying to figure out, no, knowing that this wasn't my skill set. Did I learn on the job? And was I, am I proud of what we built? 100%. But to have Pierre Yves come and I had to marry him to get him to do that, you were like,
- [47:19]
A
hey, I've got a good idea.
- [47:21]
B
I promise that wasn't my idea. From the beginning, he was going to invest in our brand at lvmh. And then we realized that maybe we had other intentions.
- [47:29]
A
Just for anybody who doesn't know and who doesn't come from fashion. Pierre Yves is your partner, but also one of the most sought after and influential fashion executives on the planet.
- [47:40]
B
Planet.
- [47:41]
A
And one of the most competent and brilliant people came from LVMH. And so, like, the dream of all dream CEOs for any brand, I would say, right?
- [47:49]
B
And I said that to my board. I'm like, this is not a favor. This is a present to all of you.
- [47:55]
A
This is a gift to you guys.
- [47:57]
B
So it's like, for him to actually want to do this, that's a big deal. I think it was a huge deal. So for me, it was a given that he is this expert that I struggled with to. I'm sorry, implementing SAP and tax structures and all the things that you have to do is not what I'm passionate about. But he is so strategic. And what's brilliant about Pure Eve is he has this brilliance in business, but he's also a creative talent.
- [48:23]
A
He's a creative talent.
- [48:23]
B
He understands creative people.
- [48:25]
A
But, you know, for 14 years, you really did do it. And I'm interested in those four years when you brought somebody else in. Was that because you felt like you no longer wanted the role or you felt like you weren't living up to it?
- [48:37]
B
I felt like the scale of the business was getting bigger and bigger. And I think one of the things that I have learned is that it's equally as important to leave at the right time. And certainly I gave up the CEO, but I am much more into the company than I've ever been right now. So I was certainly not leaving, but I was pivoting and changing to sort of match my strengths. And that was super important. And I think people need to learn that women and men. I don't think that's just women.
- [49:06]
A
No. I think everybody needs to know that. What was the first big crap creative decision you made after stepping down as the CEO?
- [49:12]
B
Well, it was during COVID so I did sort of this palette cleanser, and it was the Shaker collection. So I grew up in sort of a Quaker and went to Quaker schools. And so the concept of the Shaker Museum and the minimalist, for me, that was just like, a great way to start again and to sort of rethink everything and not lose sight of our customer and lose sight of the beautiful things that we've built, but also reinvent everything that we had done. So whether it was a ballet flat, I wanted to look at that ballet flat and redesign it, but make it better. And I felt that I had the expertise now to do that.
- [49:48]
A
Yeah. And also the headspace.
- [49:50]
B
I was thinking about headspace earlier today, because what I realized is that first 14 years, I had so much chaos and so much going on, whether it was personal, whether it was the company growth. I didn't have time to think properly. So in a way, the positive of COVID which, obviously there were so many negatives, but the positive was it gave me a chance to reset and actually have time to think. And that's something that I really value.
- [50:17]
A
How did your identity as a founder changed after stepping back out of the CEO role?
- [50:23]
B
I mean, it didn't change. I think a lot of women asked me if that was a difficult decision because there's so few women CEOs. I have to say it was the easiest decision I've ever made. I do love the fact that I was a CEO, and that's a wonderful thing. And I want women to be CEO if that's what they choose. But it also has to be the right fit, and you have to be what's right for the business at that time.
- [50:48]
A
Yeah. And it's a hard job.
- [50:51]
B
It's hard. Well, it's impossible to do creative and own the business.
- [50:56]
A
I think it's completely impossible. I also think that you don't have to be the CEO to be the one calling the shots.
- [51:01]
B
No. And that's exactly it.
- [51:04]
A
Which I don't know that a lot of people, specifically female founders, understand.
- [51:09]
B
Well, it's interesting because a lot of people ask me how I've kept control of the company, and that's something that has been very important to me, that corporate governance and just roles and responsibilities and decisions. And we wouldn't have had to bring in private equity because we did the fundraise, and then we were profitable in our second year, and the company profits built the company. Why I needed to bring in private equity is because in my divorce, Chris got 50% of the company. And so I needed to get him out of the company. He wanted to get out.
- [51:42]
A
You had to buy him out?
- [51:43]
B
I had to buy him out. And that's why we ended up bringing private equity in.
- [51:46]
A
Did you end up doing a good deal when you bought him out?
- [51:49]
B
We did. It depends on which time. It's been different iterations, but I picked two good partners that are still with us today. And I think private equity is. It's a different model. You know, I want to build a brand that has longevity. I've always wanted to be the best brand, not the biggest brand. And I knew that being a patient brand sometimes wouldn't be easy for investors. Investors. But I wanted to make decisions when I felt it was the right time. Not just to build for growth's sake. I wanted to build for longevity.
- [52:22]
A
Was it the right decision both for you and for the company to buy Chris out?
- [52:27]
B
Yes. And to set up a proper board?
- [52:30]
A
Right. Was it the right decision to bring on the private equity partners?
- [52:33]
B
It was. And I would say, no matter what, when private equity says they're long term, it's seven years. Our private equity partners have been in 13. But that's because of COVID and all the other things.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah, fair enough. That slows everything down a little bit. What did you learn about private equity that you wish you'd have known?
- [52:51]
B
I don't want this to sound like a negative, but they're not operators of businesses, and that's probably the biggest thing that I can take away. They're great at buying businesses and selling them, but they're not in the weeds operating businesses.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah. And I just don't know that that's always implicitly understood. Were there ever any regrets about having your name as the company name?
- [53:12]
B
Well, you know, as I said, I didn't want to use my name, so I launched such a good name. Well, I launched with a different name. It was a terrible name in venture sports.
- [53:20]
A
What was the name?
- [53:20]
B
It was Tori by trb. Oh, so bad then. Do you know someone named Kenny J. Lane?
- [53:25]
A
Do you know who he is? Yes. Oh, my goodness. I don't know him personally, but I
- [53:28]
B
know who that was. I was very close to Kenny. He takes me out to lunch, and he said, you need to change your terrible name of the company. And he said, everyone's calling it Tory Burch. Tory by TRB is the worst name. And he was so right. There's so many lessons that I look back and I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe I did That.
- [53:47]
A
I mean, first. Amazing that he said it and amazing that you listened.
- [53:51]
B
I listened to it because you can
- [53:52]
A
really hold onto those things.
- [53:54]
B
I wasn't attached.
- [53:55]
A
Good American was called Grace in the beginning. Oh, it was, yeah, absolutely. And my wonderful partner was like, just, I love everything about this, but I don't like the name. I was like, I'll find another name.
- [54:05]
B
Just like, let's do it. But as soon as they said that, did you agree immediately?
- [54:08]
A
Because to me, it was a working. I needed to create something and mock something up, and that was just. It was a name that, weirdly enough, we had another company, and so I owned that name. So I was like, I can legitimately, if I need to launch, I can use this name. And for whatever reason, it wasn't right
- [54:24]
B
for a dedicated company. I love being pointed when people point things out, because you're so busy doing so many things that sometimes someone needs to say something and you're like, of
- [54:34]
A
course you can take the feedback. It feels like you're extremely resilient.
- [54:39]
B
Well, I'm an information gatherer and I'd like to hear people's feedback. I don't always take it and agree with it, but I love to get it.
- [54:52]
A
The FIFA World cup is coming this summer. Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, San Francisco. Cities across the country are about to see an incredible influx of fans traveling from all over the world. If you live in a host city, it's worth considering hosting your home on Airbnb while you're away. If you're already traveling this summer, your home could be a smart opportunity to earn a little extra income during a moment when demand is going to be at its peak. The FIFA World cup brings together people from every corner of the world. And there's something exciting about being part of a cultural event this big. Hosting is a way to let someone experience your city the way it's meant to be experienced. And your home could be exactly what someone is looking for during their trip. If you've ever thought about hosting, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com FIFAhost.
- [55:52]
B
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- [56:40]
A
How do you go about gathering information when you have a big decision to make? What does it look like in practice?
- [56:45]
B
I mean, I talk to our team, I talk to my family. I mean, my family is super supportive. But I think at the end of the day, you have to go with your instinct. And instinct has been critical for me and I'm not sure where that comes from. I think a lot of women have great instinct and they need to look, listen to it more.
- [57:03]
A
I feel like the world sees this kind of like billion dollar fashion icon. But how do you see yourself?
- [57:09]
B
Well, not like that. I don't even think about that.
- [57:12]
A
But you must think about the success you've had from where you started. Like, even if it's not in the monetary terms, I mean, it's a really big globally known brand. You know, it's one of the ones where we could flash your logo and
- [57:24]
B
people would be like, Tory Burch. Yeah. And it's not something that I think a lot about. So when you say that, yeah, it's incredible. I'm so, I guess, grateful because it's exciting and I love it, but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it like that. What I do think about is how can I really change the dynamic for people? And that's something that really is inspiring to me. When I think about those early investors, a lot of them didn't have any money and they put in $10,000 and it changed their life. And that 10,000 allowed them to put their children through college. I remember what a great feeling. To me, there's nothing that's better than that. If I can.
- [58:02]
A
There is nothing better than that.
- [58:03]
B
There's nothing better than that. And I talk to my kids a when you can move the needle and help either someone look at something a bit differently, change a dynamic, have women understand that the power is within them. And that's something that I've learned. I remember hearing a couple people I admire speak and I used to talk about women's empowerment. And what they said is that it's not like you're bestowing it upon them. And I said, you're absolutely right. They have It So we wanna make sure they understand that they have it within them and how do we help them react, bring it to fruition.
- [58:37]
A
There's just so much amazing work that you do which kind of brings me to your foundation because it's anything but some marketing. I mean, it's such a hugely impactful foundation that you have the best kept secret.
- [58:52]
B
Which we don't wanna be anymore.
- [58:54]
A
No, and nor do I think that you should be. But will you just talk a little bit about the scale of that operation, what you're actually doing? Because I think it'll be so interesting to an audience of people, specifically those that are listening to this show.
- [59:06]
B
Well, we started it, the company was 2004 and then the foundation was 2009. And so since then we have built a community of incredible women across the United States. We definitely talk to women beyond the United States, but it's really about the US that we focus and it's about community, it's about capital and education. And so we have fellowship programs. We now have just announced another fellowship program where we take 120 entrepreneurs a year. And it's an extensive year of mentorship, of connectivity, of giving them a small grant, of creating a community. And when we see entrepreneurs reach a million dollars in revenue, we see a sustainable business. So to me that is exciting. When you meet these women, they are so exceptional and it's inspiring. I mean, it's as inspiring for my team because a of our team are mentors as it is for the entrepreneurs. And we see a community of people that's growing and we want to reach as many people as we can because we're just about to reach another phase of our partnership with bank of America.
- [60:18]
A
Amazing.
- [60:18]
B
And I can't wait, I can't wait to talk to you about this because it's not ready yet. But they committed $100 million to us, which we gave out and which that was done. So now I set up a meeting with Brian Morris Moynihan and I said, but I want real impact and scale.
- [60:34]
A
You're like. And so 100 million was great having said that.
- [60:38]
B
But so they're committed and they're doing amazing work and collectively what we could do together is pretty extraordinary. So that is going to be a very exciting new chapter, which I hope to announce something at this foundation breakfast which we're about to have. But we also have free seminars on education. Thousands of people have written business plans, but we focus on after a business has been started. And we have committed to reaching $1 billion by 2030, to add to the economy through our entrepreneurs. So I think it's a really audacious goal. It's an audacious goal. We're at about $240 million right now, but we can do it, and they can do it.
- [61:20]
A
No, no doubt. And I think it's so important. You know, again, we hear so many people talk about women supporting women, but talk about putting your money where your mouth is, both in that company money, but, you know, your impact, your relationships, it's really unbelievably impressive. And I think any women that have ever been touched by the foundation, they just, you know, it's. What an amazing thing that you've created, what an amazing platform. And it seems to me like it's just gonna go from strength to strength and touch even more founders.
- [61:51]
B
Well, women are the answer. And when I look at what's happening in the chaotic world that we live in, a lot of this would be solved if women. We're thinking it through, and that's how I really feel.
- [62:02]
A
Tori, you are preaching to the converted over here. I just. I honestly.
- [62:07]
B
I think a lot of men feel that way as well.
- [62:08]
A
I think a lot of. I think a lot of men feel that way, and that's why it's so important to have these conversations and to talk about women and power and money, because the two things are really inextricably linked. We are desperate right now in the world for more women in positions of power. To me, there is no. It's not debatable. It's not a conversation. It's absolutely.
- [62:28]
B
You know, I look at the women that we work with, and I mentioned they're inspiring. They often are single moms, they have two or three jobs. They're investing into the communities. They're great investments. They're paying back their loans at a 98% rate, and then venture capital is going down. So there's an equation that's not adding up.
- [62:48]
A
Yes.
- [62:49]
B
And more women are starting companies because structurally, the workforce doesn't work for women.
- [62:55]
A
I was looking at a statistic, I think just Yesterday that was 500,000 women have dropped out of the workforce. You know, we aren't setting women up to succeed. And it's so much more simple than we think. So much more simple. But I think just again, having the conversation, showing women what's possible, being a model for that possibility, that's what's really important, because you can't be what you don't see.
- [63:18]
B
Well, you started out, you were looking at me. I promise you, if I Can do it. Anyone could do it. If someone asked me 24 years ago what I would be doing today, I would have had no idea. You wouldn't?
- [63:30]
A
No. I mean, that's so insane to me. What do you even say? What advice do you give to somebody who's right at the beginning of their journey?
- [63:37]
B
I mean, I go back to a lot of things that my mom and dad said to me is that, you know, if you work hard, if you have a unique idea, if you have resilience and tenacity and grit and all these things that we talk about, but really, you have to love what you do, and you have to find that out. I think sometimes it takes people time to know how to identify themselves. I was thinking about your book, and you knew exactly what you wanted. I don't know that I knew exactly what I wanted. I think it became this iterative process, and then I realized what I wanted.
- [64:12]
A
I think for most people, it's like that. But even with me, I had an idea that I wanted to be in the fashion space. But I think, like, life happens in seasons. You don't get. You know, I worked so many jobs that were so outside of the realms of things that I really loved.
- [64:26]
B
Some of the jobs.
- [64:27]
A
Oh, you know what the worst one was? Fashion show production. Because in my head, I was gonna be at the shows. In reality, you are backstage, you don't see the show. You work for three months on something that's like up and down in 20 seconds, and you're not even invited to the after party. I was like, this is the worst job ever.
- [64:45]
B
Okay. I had one worse that I was a sample manager.
- [64:48]
A
Oh, yes. I mean, in a celebrity, in a PR agency. I mean, I did that.
- [64:52]
B
My parents boxes and I mean.
- [64:54]
A
And it's just. You'd see the clothes, you'd see the things, and you're like, I had this part of that. Like, that's it. Yeah.
- [65:00]
B
I remember dressing a celebrity once, and she wouldn't look at me. She was looking in the mirror the whole time at herself, and she was like, here. It was just, you know, these things add a little.
- [65:10]
A
But it's part of it. Do you know what? And that's it. I mean, it adds a little to you, and you learn so much. I went all around London doing work experience of things that I just knew I didn't want to do.
- [65:22]
B
And every job might not be the perfect job, but you take something from
- [65:25]
A
it, you're going to take something from it.
- [65:26]
B
And that's what I say to a lot of young girls today and even young men. Is that make it entrepreneurial? Maybe you're not an entrepreneur. You know, I went to speak at Stanford and the class overwhelmingly said they wanted to be entrepreneurs, which I found really interesting because what they're not saying is I have found this company that I'm passionate about. It's really that they have this mindset of just being an entrepreneur.
- [65:48]
A
It's really true.
- [65:49]
B
It's kind of interesting.
- [65:50]
A
But you can be entrepreneurial in a corporate, right? You can have an entrepreneurial mindset and you can be a big thinker and you can be somebody that thinks outside the box and is a self starter and gets things done. I always felt like I was that when I was being paid a salary, you know, So I feel like there's a lot of places to be entrepreneurial. What do you think you're still trying to figure out?
- [66:10]
B
Well, I still am trying to figure out a lot, I think, you know, I. As I mentioned as you sit and rethink a company just aesthetically and not leaving who you are. So to me it's like a fine balance of evolution, kind of reinvention, but not leaving the essence of who you are. It's kind of finding that balance. I think everyone's a bit of a work in progress. I don't think I'll ever have figured anything out. I think being intellectually curious and always trying to just keep your empathy and understand how other people are feeling and the world around us. If I'm struggling, I know a lot of people are struggling right now. So how do you show up and be a good partner, listener, boss, friend, everything to people when there's so much chaos? So that's something I think a lot about is how do you lessen the blow?
- [67:04]
A
Yeah. What do you still aspire to?
- [67:07]
B
Well, I think I aspire. I look at my children and as I said, we've been through a lot to see them be entrepreneurs themselves. My twins started a company in Jakarta called Butter Baby.
- [67:20]
A
When you tell me this, I love this.
- [67:22]
B
Exciting to see them working so hard and my son Henry and Nick and then my son Sawyer. And to see my stepdaughters all working and thriving. I guess I aspire to through them because it makes me super happy. I mean, I'm sure your mom said this to you. You're as happy as your least happy child. It is so incredibly true. When my kids are thriving and doing well, I am great. I can deal with anything. And so it makes life a lot easier. Like all the blows that happen Whether it's, you know, the stuff happening in work or the tariffs or the Middle east. All these things that are so hard to comprehend, to understand. But when your family is doing well, that helps you be able to deal with it.
- [68:06]
A
I mean, that's all you can hope for.
- [68:07]
B
Yeah.
- [68:07]
A
Okay. I just have a few rapid fire for you. What is the first thing you do in the morning?
- [68:13]
B
Walk my dogs and call my mom.
- [68:15]
A
Love that. Every day. Yes. That's the best.
- [68:17]
B
And if I don't, I hear about
- [68:18]
A
it and what's in it. Last thing you do at night?
- [68:22]
B
Same. Really?
- [68:24]
A
Do you speak to your mum twice a day?
- [68:25]
B
I do.
- [68:25]
A
Oh, my goodness. That's just the most adorable, delightful thing ever. Do you speak to your kids all the time as well?
- [68:31]
B
I try to.
- [68:31]
A
You're one of those families.
- [68:33]
B
I try to tell them how I speak to my mom.
- [68:35]
A
Yeah, you're like, call me. What's the best piece of business advice that you've ignored?
- [68:41]
B
Don't think of business and purpose in the same sentence.
- [68:45]
A
It's a good one. You're packing for vacation. Your suitcase is full. What are the two clothing items that you aren't looking leaving without?
- [68:53]
B
Oh, gosh. Okay. My Tory sports sweatpants and. Oh, that's really hard. I have to think about that. I guess a cashmere sweater. I like hanging out.
- [69:03]
A
I was gonna say you're on a
- [69:04]
B
very casual holiday for you. No, that's what I'm staying out in the room.
- [69:08]
A
I love it. And she's staying in the room. What's one thing every female founder needs to hear before she starts?
- [69:15]
B
Don't sell yourself short. And believe in yourself and understand you have the power within.
- [69:21]
A
And what is a book that changed your life?
- [69:24]
B
I have to say, one of the most beautiful books that I've ever read is 100 Years of Solitude. And for me, I've read it twice. And it's just about perception, reality, time, meaning, and generational repetition and sort of how things happen or not happen and chance and magic and mystery.
- [69:47]
A
That is definitely one that has to go on our listeners reading list. Tori, thank you so much. You're wonderful.
- [69:53]
B
That was incredible.
- [69:54]
A
Thank you. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Em Agreed is presented by audience Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed, executive producer Ashley McShan, Derrick Brown, and me, our executive producers from Audacy Leah Reese, Dennis Asha Saludja Lauren Legrasso Producer KK Sublime Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Coulter, Andrew Steele and Carlos Delgado Social media by Olivia Homan, Katherine Bale Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, My teams at the lead company and WME Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meecol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me @aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire A S P I R E with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emagreed me.
- [71:17]
B
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