← Aspire with Emma Grede
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- [00:00]
Emma Greed
My debut book, Start With Yourself, is available now. You may have seen the headlines or the clips on social media, but this book is exactly what I intended it to be. A conversation that will make you think. And it's a blueprint for anyone pursuing success without the toxic positivity. Everywhere I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what they're really asking is how can they get there too? Start with yourself is my answer. And it will be your answer too. Today I'm having a conversation with Patrick Ta, one of the most recognizable makeup artists in the world and the founder of one of the most successful beauty brands in Sephora. Patrick was booked before the launch of his new blushes, sent the Internet and makeup community into a spiral. But by the time he sat down with me, he knew our conversation had to be about more than just makeup. What I found interesting is that Patrick didn't come in just to tell his story. He came in open, emotional and willing to learn not only from the conversation, but from my own mistakes as a founder and from the accountability that comes when the impact of a launch lands differently than you intended. So yes, we talk about the controversy, but we also talk about the full trajectory that brought him to this very moment. Growing up feeling unseen, opening a nail salon at 18, going bankrupt at 21, building his career through social media when that was still frowned upon, and turning artistry into a brand built for longevity. This is a conversation about reputation, recognition and what it means to take responsibility when your business becomes bigger than just you. Here's Patrick Ta. Let's be honest. Finding supplements you actually trust really can feel like a lot. There's so much out there and it's not always clear what you're really getting. That's why I try to be intentional about what I add into my routine. And Symbiotica is one I like because the focus is serious, simple, clean, science backed ingredients that your body can actually absorb. One that stands out to me is their nad. It supports cellular energy and overall vitality, which for me just translates to feeling more steady day to day. I also like how easy it is to take. Everything comes in these single use pouches so that you can take it straight or mix it into whatever you're drinking. No pills, no extra steps. And that's really the point. It's not about adding more to your routine, it's about choosing things that actually support how you want to go to. Symbiotica.com aspire to get 20% off plus free shipping. That's C Y M B I O T I K A.com aspire for 20% off plus free shipping think about that feeling when you're fully unleashed, intentional, present and totally in the zone. That is the expansive joy that movement brings. And Peloton is helping you unlock it with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus. Powered by Peloton iq, this is cross training reimagined to be as purposeful as the work you put into everything else in your life. We've all been there, spending more time scrolling for a class than actually working out. Now, Peloton IQ changes that by building a workout roadmap that is completely yours. It handles the what and the how so you can stop wasting energy on the plan and put all of that power into your performance. It's about being fully present in your own body. Whether you're hitting the Tread plus or the floor, the experience is absolutely seamless. You can move from running to strength training with one spin of the swivel screen. In this house, cross training isn't just about physical variety. It's a mindset to keep you moving forward without ever losing your momentum. With Peloton iq, your potential is just the starting point, not the finish line. It learns your vibe with recommends instructors who match your energy, and it fills your weekly roadmap towards the next version of you. So let yourself run, lift, foul, try and go explore the new peloton cross training tread of 1 peloton.com. Patrick Ta. Welcome to Aspire.
- [04:22]
Patrick Ta
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
- [04:24]
Emma Greed
I am so happy to have you. It feels like it's a really long time coming.
- [04:28]
Patrick Ta
Honestly, I am so inspired by you. So, honestly, I feel like I hope to learn something from you today as well.
- [04:34]
Emma Greed
I'm really excited to have you because for me and for so many of us, you are one of the most recognizable makeup artists in the whole world. I've read some incredible stats about the business that you have and that you've built at Sephora, but I think what's so interesting about you is that you're still a working makeup artist. And even with all of the accolades that you have with the size of the brand and with everything that you're doing, you still choose to be there and working with your clients. And when I hear about your experience, I always think that. That, you know, you were this kid who spent their childhood really feeling like you didn't quite belong. And I wonder how your experience and essentially how that has shaped how you thought what was possible for you.
- [05:16]
Patrick Ta
I have always Been a dreamer. I grew up, I'm first generation Vietnamese American. I did not excel in school. I'm a high school dropout. I was bullied. I have a stuttering speech, impeachment. And I never really felt like I belonged. I was considered like the black sheep of my family. Coming from a Vietnamese family, like my sister, my cousins, all really excelled in school. And I just couldn't get good grades. So I dropped out of high school. And back then, like, my mom had a bunch of nail salons while I was growing up. My dad did construction. And when I look back of how I was raised, like, I used to be, like, so ashamed of where I came from. I was ashamed of what my parents did. Growing up in a predominantly Caucasian neighborhood, all of my friends parents had these amazing jobs. And my mom did nails. She probably did my friend's mom's nails. And for some reason I was just, I was so ashamed. And it wasn't until I moved out of San Diego, I moved to Arizona. Really, like, just wanting to reinvent my life. I came out of the closet. And at the age of 18, I somehow convinced, like, my mom and my dad to open up a nail salon for me. This is something that, like, I was so ashamed of. Like, why am I choosing to do this? Because I had no other direction. I basically ran that business to the ground. So at the age of 21, I had to file bankruptcy. And at that point, like, I was the biggest disappointment to my parents as
- [07:03]
Emma Greed
a first generation Vietnamese American whose parents sacrificed an enormous amount for them. Like, I wonder how much of how you operate is kind of informed by that upbringing that you had.
- [07:15]
Patrick Ta
I moved to Los Angeles and I set out this dream to start my career as a makeup artist. I made sure that I would. I was going to succeed. This was 14 years ago. That was when, like, it was like the start of social media. I would reach out to clients. I remember I was charging $50 to do makeup. I was just so hungry to make a name for myself and to honestly to like, redeem myself from my parents to make them proud. And that, like, driving force of my bankruptcy has, like, I think, led me to, like, where I am today.
- [07:51]
Emma Greed
No doubt. If you could kind of pinpoint one moment from your childhood or your early career that's really shaped who you are and what you do now. Do you think it would be that bankruptcy?
- [08:02]
Patrick Ta
I think it was a lot of things. I think growing up, like, really overweight, growing up, not having any friends, growing up, never being told that I was, like, good at Anything until I started doing makeup. Like, makeup was the first time that someone gave me my first compliment. Makeup was the first thing that someone told me that I was finally good at something. And I held onto that for dear life. When I first started doing makeup, I was very quiet. I just came to work and I did my job and really just tried to make my clients feel the best version of themselves. And I realized that me building up the girl sitting in my chair, their confidence, it truly, like, built mine. Like, makeup has given me my voice. It's given me my confidence. It's given me, like, this entire career. So what I'm able to do for the girls, like, I. Like, they do that for me.
- [08:58]
Emma Greed
I'm really interested to understand, like, more about, like, the early Patrick and, like, where that resilience comes from, because when you have a failure like that, you essentially dropped out of high school, opened the salon. You then, I think you're 18, you go bankrupt by the time you're 21, most people would have just turned around, gone home, decided, like, you know, this type of career is not for me. But you actually decided to, like, you know, start something anew. I wonder, like, if you. If you think about those three years, what were the big takeaways for you? Now that you look back on that time?
- [09:30]
Patrick Ta
I think for me, like, I never wanted to feel like that low again. I did everything in my power. I was working seven days a week, not going out. Honestly, like, from my. My twenties to my thirties, no social life whatsoever, really. Just, like, heads down, trying to make a name for myself.
- [09:47]
Emma Greed
I mean, it's amazing to even think about that there's, like, a decade of unbelievable, like, work there. Because, you know, it kind of when you look at, like, your bio, one minute you're on a Mac counter, and the next minute, you are, like, literally working with some of the most impressive and unbelievable clients in the world. So actually, what happens in that time, like, from Mac counter to you picking up clients like Shay Mitchell And Rihanna and JLo, like, tell me, like, what was the actual turning point for you?
- [10:14]
Patrick Ta
I have always been obsessed with makeup. When I moved to Los angeles, I was DMing people. I would reach out to as many people as I could and just, like, wanting someone to say yes. Something that was. I think that was, like, frowned upon, like, back then. But I didn't know how else to reach these people. I didn't want to fail again. And at the very beginning of my career, like, when it was so taboo to take photos of your clients, I did that And I would take selfies, like, with my clients and post my work on social media. And there was this article maybe 12 years ago from Vanity Fair, they wrote an article about me saying that I was selfie made. And even though it was great headline, even though it was so, like, frowned upon, I did it anyways, and it has given me the chance to be where I am today within two years. I was working with Gigi back then. She only had, like, 200,000 followers. She was so young, she was so new, and one thing just came after another. I feel like back then, if you got a follow from someone back then, it meant that I was probably going to work with them within the next month or so.
- [11:25]
Emma Greed
How much did you understand the power of social media then? Because it was very, very different and, like you say, almost kind of frowned upon in a way. So if you kind of back to that time, were you aware that that was, like, a way that you were going to build your own business? Like, did it feel like it does today?
- [11:42]
Patrick Ta
Even though social media was so new to me, I really dove into it and I could see that even though, like, I had, like, 6,000 followers, I was, like, booking clients, and it's like, oh, this is great. I was charging $50, like $75 here and there, making $500 a day. And I thought I was killing it. I was, like, crushing it. I was like, this is amazing. I could do this forever. Then as my career progressed, just opportunity, like, bigger opportunities came from social media. They came from people seeing my work online. My Instagram became my portfolio for people to see. I feel like the days of looking at the Internet for client work changed.
- [12:28]
Emma Greed
There's been such a seismic shift. You know, I'm old enough to remember even pre Internet, you know, it's like somebody would send you a book like it. It was so crazy. You would have, like, a physical book and those. It changed, like, so quickly. And it's interesting because it feels like you were one of the first makeup artists to really understand that and to really take advantage of it. I'm interested to understand, like, when and how you transitioned from being this, like, celebrity makeup artist. I'm sure there was a time when you were getting lots of brand deals to then actually creation of your own brand.
- [13:02]
Patrick Ta
So I have always wanted to have my own brand. I've always wanted to be successful. So seven years ago, we launched Project Beauty, and I started working on this, like, eight years ago. But this was the time where I was probably one of the biggest makeup artists at that time. I was working with Rihanna, JLo, Ariana Grande, and that time Kylie had just, I think, sold her beauty brand for a billion dollars. And every single person was like, I want a beauty brand. People were flocking to me to invest in me. And I had probably five or six people or firms reach out to me to start a brand with me and me not knowing anything about business. I've never had a corporate job. I was honestly a little freaked out. And I realized that even though I didn't know how to get to this point, I wanted to be with someone that made me feel safe.
- [13:56]
Emma Greed
But you understood that your name had value beyond your straight services. Like, you were aware that you were becoming like a brand name in of yourself. Or was it like, oh, this is a surprise that people are asking me to do this?
- [14:08]
Patrick Ta
I think I've always had like imposter syndrome. I think like, for me, like growing up, I've always been like very, very, very shy. I still am. I think some people can, can take that as me being standoffish or coming off the wrong way. But I'm a very shy person. And I'm like shocked sometimes that people even know who I am. But I am proud of my career. I can say that I worked tremendously hard. And at that time, I did have a little bit of cockiness because I was working with Rihanna. She was the baddest girl in the industry.
- [14:45]
Emma Greed
Talk to me about the cockiness. I love that because I think it's actually quite, it's kind of self depreciating that you even recognize that in yourself. What do you mean?
- [14:53]
Patrick Ta
I knew that I had every single major pop star in the world and that meant something to me. I kind of like grew into my confidence, like, oh, like maybe I'm actually like good at something. It gave me, I guess, like leverage to these people, like reaching out to me to create a brand and to, I guess, make money off me. Even though, like, I didn't think about it that way back then, I knew that I wanted to create a brand. I didn't know how I was going to get there. I didn't have my own capital, nor did I fully want to throw everything that I've made because I've experienced that bankruptcy.
- [15:36]
Emma Greed
It's in the back of your head.
- [15:37]
Patrick Ta
I was a little afraid, but I'm still like, I'm a risk taker now. And I like, I dove in here.
- [15:45]
Emma Greed
All right, so let's talk about that moment. Because you launched Your brand in 2019, which is just before the pandemic I mean, absolute timing. But I'm so interested to how it actually came about. So at this point, it's like you've got every dream client in the world that you could have. You have a bunch of brands and the big kind of conglomerates. I imagine, kind of coming to you saying, hey, we love what you're doing, and we'd love to use your name and create a brand. So how does Patrick Ta the brand, actually get born?
- [16:13]
Patrick Ta
So one of my first clients, her name is Rima. Her and her husband, they had talked to me about building a brand before, but, like, they had no experience. I have no experience.
- [16:25]
Emma Greed
What did they have? Like, money?
- [16:26]
Patrick Ta
Yeah. So Reema was one of my first clients to ever book me, and her husband had just sold his, like, pharmaceutical company.
- [16:35]
Emma Greed
So he's a businessman, but not necessarily in the cosmetic space.
- [16:38]
Patrick Ta
Yeah. I reached out to her to see if, like, this is something that she would be interested in, because she's brought it up, like, many times during our glam sessions. And at first they were like, no, we're like, we don't want to do this. It was like, a year later.
- [16:52]
Emma Greed
Did you pursue other opportunities in that year? Like, did you go down the road with potential suitors?
- [16:58]
Patrick Ta
So I had, like, a bunch of options. I had a few incubator companies. I had, like, a few other clients as well. But I was really impressed by how Avvo was able to exit his company within, like, three years. And I was like, let's try this. And one, like, I just. Like, I really just connected with Reema, my co founder.
- [17:21]
Emma Greed
There's also just so much to be said of an existing relationship. Like, right, what, you know, what you've seen, certainly for you, you're coming from a place of, like, not necessarily being able to trust all the advances that are around you. And so you went for what was comfortable and what you thought you knew.
- [17:35]
Patrick Ta
I went with what was comfortable, and we did it that way. I see all these brands now launching so big in all these categories and, like, in such a big way. Like, I launched with, like, three products. This brand was always meant to be launched just like D to C. I launched with a body oil, a lip shine, a highlighting mist, and then, like,
- [17:56]
Emma Greed
a fan kind of amazing and random set of products.
- [17:58]
Patrick Ta
I know.
- [17:59]
Emma Greed
Honestly, I'm like, wait a minute. I was expecting you to go like a mascara, a lipstick, and a blush. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. But maybe that was it. Like, did that. I mean, I'm assuming that that mix really set you apart.
- [18:10]
Patrick Ta
It did I. During that time, like, during the development process, like, Remo and I had no idea what we were doing. We were like, six months in, and we weren't really moving anywhere. We, like, looked online where to make product and, like, this is, like, I feel like, what so many people go through when they're trying to start their own brand. Like, where do you even start? We ended up outsourcing a external agency to. To. To help us. And a friend of a friend that worked at Sephora caught wind that I was, like, starting a brand. They asked us to fly to San Francisco, and I was like, oh, my God, like, this is such a big moment for me because, like, Sephora is a brick and mortar that I have always admired. It's a store that I shopped at. I flew to San Francisco with our three products to present. I was so nervous. I came into this, like, boardroom. There was, like, 20 people in there, and I presented everything that I had. I told them my story. I told them, like, my hopes and dreams. And I left that meeting with, like, tears, like, running down my face because, like, I was so happy.
- [19:14]
Emma Greed
Were you, like, I killed this and Sephora gonna take my brand.
- [19:17]
Patrick Ta
I knew I was a amazing makeup artist. I knew I had the best clients. So, like, of course you want me. I left crying because I was just, like, so happy with. With how it all came to place. And Sephora is such a inviting company. We ended up launching exclusively at Sephora a year and a half later.
- [19:36]
Emma Greed
So it's pretty quick between you starting with your friend and business partner to actually launching product on your own to then a year and a half later getting in Sephora. That's a pretty quick trajectory. And this is all happening around Covid as well.
- [19:51]
Patrick Ta
This is, like, right before COVID and, like, not knowing anything about the industry. Then, like, we launched, they gave us a NCAP in 200 doors. And I was like, why aren't they going to give me more doors? I don't understand. We only had three products on four shelves. We used all the other shelves for photos. What I didn't realize back then is that every single square foot of Sephora needs to generate dollars. And the fact that they were able to take a leap on to us really said something. I'm now in over a thousand doors and I'm a top 10 brand at Sephora. It's crazy to even say that.
- [20:32]
Emma Greed
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There's a particular kind of pressure that comes with Summer that nobody really talks about. The pressure to make the most of it to say yes to every trip, every dinner, every long weekend, every gathering to not waste a single sunny day. And by mid July, a lot of people are running on fumes, wondering why a season that's supposed to feel good actually feels exhausting. Some of the most useful work I've seen people do is around their own boundaries, understanding what they actually want from a season versus what they think think they're supposed to want. That kind of clarity doesn't usually happen on your own. It's the kind of thing therapy is really good for, giving you space to figure out what you need before you say yes to things that you don't. BetterHelp makes finding that support straightforward. They're the world's largest online therapy platform, Having served over 6 million people with over 30,000 therapists fully licensed in the U.S. betterHelp does the initial matching for you through a short questionnaire and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer, find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com aspire that's betterhelp.com aspire hey y', all, Poodle
- [21:47]
Patrick Ta
and Maddie here from Reality Gaze.
- [21:49]
Emma Greed
Grab your favorite thong because for the first time we're heading to the villa for the new season of Love island usa.
- [21:55]
Patrick Ta
Maddie I can't wait to watch all
- [21:57]
Emma Greed
Ariana babysit these shiny, oiled up adults who I'm pretty sure aren't there for the right reasons. From the home wrecking bombshells and the Casa Amor trauma to the absolute wreckage of movie night, we're judging it all.
- [22:10]
Patrick Ta
Pull up a Day event and join us every Wednesday for all the Love Island USA drama.
- [22:15]
Emma Greed
Find reality gays, wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go back quickly before I go forward because I think it's an important thing not to skip over. When you did your deal with your current business partners and your first investors, how did you know what to ask for? How did you think about structure and how did you equate your value? Given that they had all the money, you had all the expertise, Seemingly neither of you had the experience to actually launch a brand in that space. So what did that conversation look like and what did that deal look like?
- [22:51]
Patrick Ta
I wanted to make sure that I was getting like a fair deal. I had like five or six other deals on the table. None of them came to like, fruition, but I had some sort of like idea of what other people were offering me and I wanted to make sure that it was fair, I got a really good lawyer. I had to ask like all my clients, my like their agents, like, does this seem fair? Is this okay? What's normal? Because I honestly, like, I didn't know. People say that I got like a really good deal. Some people say that I got like a really bad deal. I think it depends on what you are comfortable with. And at the end of the day, like, I am so grateful that someone even was able to take a chance on me.
- [23:34]
Emma Greed
I love to hear that one of the things that you did was pursuing the other deals because I think what people often do when they have an opportunity, they put all their eggs in one basket and say, this is the thing that I want to do. And actually going around dating a little bit, understanding who's got what offer, speaking to people like, that is how you to the deal that you're supposed to do now, whether you did a good deal or a bad deal. I mean, I guess you'll never know, right? Because you did the deal you did. I'm sure you did and I'm sure it's working out. But I think it's really interesting that when you don't know, all you can do is ask a lot of questions. All you can do is take a lot of meetings. And I think the one thing that I always try to encourage people to do is whether or not you're super interested in the end opportunity. It's like take a call, take a meeting, sit down with people because you will learn something in the discovery. And even if you take that conversation into the next thing, it can like just be super helpful. When I think about your brand now, you said you're in a thousand doors of Sephora. I think you sell three blushes every minute, which is kind of crazy. And you're at the like, you're like number one blush in Sephora.
- [24:40]
Patrick Ta
We like teeter totter between number one and number two.
- [24:42]
Emma Greed
What does it actually take to hold onto that position and how have you thought about growing the brand, growing your categories and what you can do in your space.
- [24:52]
Patrick Ta
So like three years ago, when we became that number one position, best believe every single other brand out there is probably buying that blush, bringing it into their product development team and making and like dissecting it. And like, why is this number one? I think it is really important as a brand, compete with yourself and never stay stagnant. Like, just because I have like the number one blush right now, it doesn't mean it's always going to stay like that when I launch a product now, these products I stand behind. And that is so important for me. Like, when I first launched the brand, I was creating products that I really felt were missing from my own makeup kit. But how I create products now is that I need to know that I still want to talk about this five years from now. You need to be able to love your product and make sure that the formula is there. So once you even stop talking about it, the formula speaks for itself. And I made sure that the products that I launch, I love them, I stand behind them. And that I always ask myself, will I love this 10 years from now? And that's a really hard question, because you don't know.
- [26:06]
Emma Greed
It's a hard question. And I think it's a hard lesson to learn. And I felt the same thing. I used to get fatigue. I was like, are we really going to do another blue jean campaign? And it's like, yes. And if we're lucky, in 30 years, we'll just be doing blue jean campaigns and still talking about the same thing. Because when you do something with excellence and you're really amazing at it, it's the best thing in the world, is to be able to double down and have that product and speak about that product over and over and over again. But I think that you're right. You can't get lazy. You have to innovate, you have to iterate, and you always have to be thinking about the next thing.
- [26:42]
Patrick Ta
You have to also know when it's the right time to evolve from that product, too. You can't do it too quick and you can't do it too late. Even though I might understand this, like, this technique of cream over powder, and I think it's so old, it's been like, three years. There are so many people out there that have no idea what it is. I launched that blush duo five years ago. It was, like, sitting stagnant on the shelves for at least, like, a year and a half. It wasn't until, like, I started educating, I started really, like, showing people how to use or different ways of using it that, like, this blush, like, took off like wildfire.
- [27:23]
Emma Greed
I've seen that in my own businesses. Not everything is a hit out of the gate. But if you really believe in something, like, you have to kind of really double down and say, this is what it is. This is what I stand for. I have a lot of belief and conviction in this product. And I'm just going to keep going because eventually things take light. And I think the same thing's happened in my own company. It's like you launch something and two years later, it takes off, and you might just be a little bit ahead of the curve. How do you. You, like, spot new trends, see what's happening in your business, and decide, actually, this is a product that I need to create. This is a category that I need to be in.
- [27:58]
Patrick Ta
So because, like, I'm a working makeup artist, and I don't think that I'm going to give that up anytime soon. When I do makeup, I don't really, like, look for trends. It's really important for me because I work on some of the biggest names in Hollywood. I just want them to feel the best version of themselves. I want them to feel confident, and I want them to book me again. And how you get that to happen is that they feel like the best versions of themselves. I'm not focused on trends. I'm focused on making my clients just, like, love how they look and they feel confident. Sometimes those looks become trends. I bring that then into my development process.
- [28:37]
Emma Greed
I want to talk to you a little bit about the business, and because I look at it, I'm like, my goodness, you started with, like, such a tiny team. Now you've got a team of over 60 people. What has been, I guess, like, the hardest leadership lesson that you've learned as the company's grown and scaled?
- [28:53]
Patrick Ta
It's so crazy that I can even say that I have over 60 people. For the first four years, like, we were a team of four. It was me, my business partners, and, like, we had a social media girl. The fact that we were able to do, like, what we did back then is. I feel like those days were like, a blur. But we took private equity four years ago. It wasn't just about, like, raising money. It was really about finding, like, the right strategic partner. I feel like we've, like, fully exhausted our own knowledge. What knowledge we had. We needed a partner that could really, like, take us to the next stage. We really wanted someone with the knowledge, the experience, the relationships to really take us to that next level.
- [29:32]
Emma Greed
Which, by the way, is the best version of having a partner and raising money. Because I think when you have a partner that comes with just the money, like, you tire of that partner at the same rate that the money dwindles down. But when you have a partner that brings something to the business, like strategic relationships, they've been in that category before. They understand the business, they can open up doors for you. It actually is a game changer. Is that what you've Experienced with your partner.
- [29:58]
Patrick Ta
Even though they have come in, they have brought in so much experience. Like, there's still so many times that I feel like in, like, these, like, board meetings or like, I always, like, speak my truth, I always say how I feel because I'm so passionate about what I do. I don't want to lose who I am within the brand because, like, when. When private equity comes into play, it's all about numbers and, and scaling the brand. But for me, it's always been about the product. It's. It's been. It's been about, like, building this, like, this, like, legacy. This brand is all I have. I've been working the last, like, 15 years of my life. Like, it's. It's led up to this point, and it's all I have.
- [30:38]
Emma Greed
How are you able to toe the line between the needs and what they want and actually what it is that you want to do and how you want the brand to remain?
- [30:46]
Patrick Ta
I still, like, juggle that still to this day. We partnered with a private equity firm that one believes in the product, they believe in me. And it's truly been, like, the most amazing relationship. Like, we've grown so much from their experience, their knowledge, and I honestly, like, they haven't really tried to, like, change me. There are certain things where, when it comes to operations and when it comes to production schedule, like, I am not going to let a product go onto the shelves if it is not great. These are things that I didn't learn until maybe, like, two, three years in. Like, there's so much that goes into the development process that I never in a million years thought that, like, was even needed, that you. I thought that you would go in, you would create a formula, you would create a color, and it would be done. But that's not the case. When you do, like, replenishments. Like, all of these are, like, raw ingredients. Things change all the time. And, like, the color doesn't always stay the same. Like, the one thing that I'm, like, such a huge stickler about is that I want consistency. I want the consistency in the formula, in the color. Because, like, sometimes if you go into a store now, you see a brand that you. You have, like, your favorite blush, and you go in, three years later, you buy the same color. They're not the same color. But that's something that I am, like, such a stickler about. I didn't even know to ask that question until. Until I learned about it. I remember, like, sitting in my. My first, like, board meeting. There are all these, like, numbers, like, on the screen. Like, what the hell do these say? There's all these, like, abbreviations. Like, I knew nothing, but this brand has my name on it. Like, I'm not afraid to sound dumb, not afraid to ask questions. I ask dumb questions all the time because, like, I just want to know,
- [32:37]
Emma Greed
do you feel like it's your responsibility to understand? Are you the type of founder that's, like, decided I need to understand the numbers, I need to understand the abbreviations? Or do you feel like you stay more in your creative lane?
- [32:48]
Patrick Ta
I stay more in my creative lane, but it is important for me to understand them. I will ask the question. And every single year has been like, a different year. I tackle. I tackle something every single year or every single month. Honestly, like, the more I learn about it, the more I get interested in it. But we are at the point in our brand life now that it's, like, getting bigger. I can't be in every department, even though I want to be. The first year, when we started bringing on talent and building our executive suite, it was really hard for me to let go and to trust.
- [33:25]
Emma Greed
Yeah. Especially because if for the first three years when you were absolutely killing it, there were only four of you. Because I know you eventually on a CEO, Right. And I wonder what was actually happening in the business that forced you to realize I can't do this all myself and actually I need this position in the company.
- [33:41]
Patrick Ta
I was never the CEO of my company. My business partner, avo, he was running the company and we got to a stage where the business was growing at, like, such like, a fast pace. We needed someone with experience within the industry.
- [33:56]
Emma Greed
You needed a professional beauty CEO.
- [33:58]
Patrick Ta
Yeah, beauty CEO that, like, understood the relationship with Sephora. Like, that, like, we are exclusive with Sephora. We need.
- [34:06]
Emma Greed
You're still exclusive to Sephora.
- [34:07]
Patrick Ta
I am still exclusive with Sephora.
- [34:09]
Emma Greed
Wowzers. You are.
- [34:11]
Patrick Ta
And I'm proud to say that they have been nothing but amazing to us. They have really helped us grow and they have been, like, the best partners. And there will be a time where we will thread our wings. But right now, like, I'm so happy.
- [34:24]
Emma Greed
I mean, no doubt you've built an amazing business, but I have to challenge you on that because where I come from, the idea of, like, literally having all my eggs in one basket, meaning that everything is with one partner. They control whether the lights are on or the lights are off. As somebody who's like, you know, you're controlling. You're the person that, like, you know, you have an idea of what this brand is. How do you leave it up to Sephora to decide, like the success and the speed that your brand is growing?
- [34:53]
Patrick Ta
I think there are so many beauty brands that are launching right now and everyone is like following this, like same path path. I'm building something slow, but I'm also building something for like longevity. There's still like so much time. And for me, I want to be able to make sure every single market that I am in now that we show up with excellence. And I'm able to cater to that before I expand. Because like going into like these different markets, you need people on the ground. You need to understand like the region. And I used to think like, why aren't I in all these regions? Like, why aren't I world? Like, why didn't we launch worldwide? We launched only in the us we just launched in the Middle East. We just launched in Mexico and Southeast Asia. And we're doing it slowly because I want to make sure the experience for the Patrick Ta girl is like the best experience possible. I don't want to jump ship and launch somewhere where people don't know me. Our product just sits on the shelf because that is like the worst thing ever.
- [36:01]
Emma Greed
I love that answer. Actually, like that you still have time. Because I feel like everyone's always in such a rush to have everything and to do everything that can be possible for the brand. And in a way, Sephora is like a safeguard, right? You get to go into a market, you get to have best in class representation, you get to go in a way that you understand and work with a partner that understands you.
- [36:24]
Patrick Ta
So because we are exclusive with Sephora too, like, I hold that against them. Like, you better give me, you better treat me like I am your only child.
- [36:32]
Emma Greed
Damn right, you.
- [36:33]
Patrick Ta
Because they have to understand, like we are giving up a lot to hell yeah to be here. So I always challenge them for support.
- [36:48]
Emma Greed
One thing that I've learned building businesses is that having a great product is only part of it. The operational side. Site optimization data, the work that keeps everything running. It's its own job and most founders aren't experts at it. That's where things can really stall. Shopify has been investing seriously in tools that handle that part for you. Sidekick is the one that is worth you knowing about. It's their AI tool that analyzes trends, optimizes your store drafts, copy runs, reports so that you can focus on the creative and strategic decisions that move the business forward. On the customer facing side, shop pay is the one click checkout. The purple button that you've seen at checkout on a lot of online stores. It removes the friction at the moment of purchase, which means fewer abandoned carts and more completed orders. And those small details add up. That is why I use Shopify. It's the platform we run Good American on and it's the same platform I trust anytime I'm building something new. They keep adding capability without making the platform more complicated. So whether you're testing an idea or scaling something serious, Shopify is where you build it. Go to shopify.com aspire to get started now. One of the things I value most in any product is when it actually simplifies your life instead of adding more clutter. Our Place is a great example of that. Their whole approach is built around multi functional pieces that perform really well, look beautiful in your kitchen, and have been made without forever chemicals since the start. The Always pan is probably their most iconic piece. It's a 10 in 1 ceramic non stick that replaces a whole stack of pans. And the Wonder Oven Pro is their 8 in 1 countertop oven that handles air frying, baking, roasting and reheating faster than a traditional oven. What stands out beyond the function is how considered everything is the colors, the proportions, the small choices that make a kitchen feel calmer rather than busier. These are the pieces you can leave out on the counter and they just look like part of the design of the room. Upgrade your kitchen with our place today. Visit fromourplace.com aspire and use code aspire for 10% off sitewide. That's F R O N M-O-U-R-P-L-A C E.com A S P I R E and use code aspire for 10% off site wide. With a hundred day trial you can try it completely risk free. I've had so many incredible beauty founders sit in the chair that you're in right now. And everybody talks about Sephora as this golden ticket, this incredible moment, this turning point for their brand. What did you learn from Sephora that you think maybe you you didn't know or something, that they really have kind of taught you and educated you and your business.
- [39:39]
Patrick Ta
I have a really good story for that. So Sephora is going to buy into you. They're going to like pump you up. They're going to be like your best friend. Like we're going to kill it. We're going to launch this and one of our holiday collections like four or five years ago they like, they ordered so much and I was like oh my God, we're going to, we're going to like crush this holiday. And as much information and advice that they try to give you or lead you in a certain way, they are a business themselves. They have 500 other brands that they're looking at and trying to grow and scale. They have their own numbers that.
- [40:15]
Emma Greed
You're not the only child.
- [40:16]
Patrick Ta
I am not the only child. So you need to make sure when you launch a product, you do it how you want to do it and you show up how you want to show up, not how they want you to show up up. You launch what you feel comfortable with.
- [40:29]
Emma Greed
Damn right. And I think any external partner is looking out for themselves. You might be in cahoots and partnership and there's certain things that you can do together, but it's on you. Right. It's like, it really is. And I feel like I've also learned that the hard way. Getting giant orders from specific retailers and then sitting on a bunch of stuff and then saying, I want to RTV that I want to return it. And I'm like, oh, shit, you do. But we were in this together. It's like the partnership's gone all of a sudden. But actually, at the end of the day, it's always your problem. Right. It's like at the end of the day, your brand, your problem. It's really true. Now listen, we have to talk about the recent controversy because there has been a lot of chatter online about you and your latest product, the Transition Blush duo. For anybody that doesn't know or for anyone that's been living under a rock, this kind of transpired around another incredible and very respected and well known makeup artist painted by Esther. And I wonder what, what your perspective has been on this backlash.
- [41:27]
Patrick Ta
Yeah. So I recently launched Transition Blush. It is a three step program. And this is for like the Blush lover.
- [41:36]
Emma Greed
The Blush lover.
- [41:37]
Patrick Ta
The Blush lover. You need to have your regular blush, your Transition Blush, and really something to really like marry your concealer to your blush.
- [41:45]
Emma Greed
You weren't content selling, you know, three blushes every minute. You were like, we need to sell more blush.
- [41:50]
Patrick Ta
But this is like the part of like the world building of blush. Like, this is something that I was obsessed with the.
- [41:55]
Emma Greed
Well, you're the brush guy.
- [41:56]
Patrick Ta
Yeah. What started off as a conversation about the product, if this was a need or not, it grew to a much larger conversation about recognition and creator influence, especially like within the black community and not being recognized for their contributions on culture at first, like, to be honest, like, I did not understand it. The intent of this launch was never to take ownership over this technique. It was to really create a product to simplify this artist technique that people have been doing and simplifying it for the consumer. This has become such a larger conversation, and I've had to take a step back and to really listen to what everyone has been saying. And I've realized that even though it wasn't my intention, the impact matters. Esther is a amazing makeup artist. She really popularized this, like, high contrast of Blush on dark skin. When we were creating the launch strategy for this collection, I wanted to invite artists and creatives and creators that shared the same love for Blush.
- [43:18]
Emma Greed
Did a collaboration with Esther ever come up internally?
- [43:21]
Patrick Ta
So I personally reached out to Esther, my team reached out to Esther, and unfortunately, she declined the opportunity because she wasn't taking paid collaborations at the moment.
- [43:32]
Emma Greed
And this was prior to the launch
- [43:34]
Patrick Ta
or this was prior to the launch.
- [43:36]
Emma Greed
Okay, so you actually went out to her to be a part of your launch of this particular product?
- [43:41]
Patrick Ta
Yeah, this launch has been a very hard launch for me. Like, I created this, like, with, like. With, like, such heart.
- [43:47]
Emma Greed
And it feels to me, Patrick, like, you kind of understand that launching this particular product without a mention of her influence, of the technique kind of felt like an erasure of her influence. And again, I think she's been very vocal. She didn't create the technique. She's somebody that's more recently popularized the technique. But the fact that you guys went out with it in the way that you did feels like she should have somehow come up and been credited, and she wasn't. And because it so frequently happens specifically with black female creators and artists, it has. It's escalated into something that is disproportionate to what you would have perhaps hoped for, considering that you went out to her. But it feels to me like there's some sense of remorse or some sense of understanding, or am I misunderstanding?
- [44:38]
Patrick Ta
Yeah, I'm really sorry for, like. I am genuinely sorry for, like, the hurt and the frustration that I have caused. And that for anyone who has ever felt, like, overlooked or not recognized on, like, their contributions, like, that was never my intent. My intent was only to create a product to allow people to make this technique, like, more. More accessible at home. And when we talk about, like, the trademark issue, because that's what people have
- [45:05]
Emma Greed
got their knickers in a twist about. Right? Like, people feel like the fact that you trademarked it is. Is the overstep. Like, that's the thing that's got people, like, super riled up, apart from the fact that she's not involved and her name isn't mentioned, it's like you've gone out and taken this technique and put a trademark around it.
- [45:24]
Patrick Ta
So what people don't understand, like, I did not trademark the technique. You cannot trademark a technique.
- [45:29]
Emma Greed
You trademark the name.
- [45:29]
Patrick Ta
I trademark the name, and I trademark every single product name.
- [45:33]
Emma Greed
Well, and I just want to. And I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to just say, so do I. Every single fucking thing I do in every single brand. If a trademark is available, we will trademark it. Because the. The intention and the investment and, you know, we're not making products that last a week. We're trying to make products that last 5, 10, 15 years. A matter of usual business practice is to try to trademark what it is that you're putting into the market. There's nothing weird and unusual about that, even if it isn't fully understood. But of course, there has been uproar around the fact that you did that. But I think it's important clarification that not trademarking a technique because you can't. You're trademarking the product name. The product name.
- [46:13]
Patrick Ta
I think this conversation became even bigger because several years back, I had an incident with this creator. Her name is Ivana Sunshine, who is a creator that I. I met through Sephora Squad. And I loved her energy. I, like, saw her content. It was, like, so authentically her. I reached out to my team to work with on, like, a brand level, and there was a delayed payment on an invoice which was fixed. But not knowing, like, back then, like, how this happened, like, I hated that that happened. And it was really important for me to, like, take, like, take a step back and, like, pause for a second and really, like, understand, like, what happened. I really like, realizing that, like, this was a administrative issue. We did a complete, like, overhaul on our accounting process, process to make sure that this never happens again. But I also understand that when you are building a brand, mistakes happen. People are not perfect, and I am not perfect. But what I can say is that I work really hard to learn and to always try to be better and do better. Yeah.
- [47:28]
Emma Greed
And I mean, it feels like you've built this career of yours on sort of fighting to be seen. And so there's a responsibility, I guess, that you must feel somewhat that you have around allowing others to be seen. And I think that's the thing that people have missed. Right. This becomes an issue of reputation. One thing happens, something else. People draw a line between the two and Your reputation is what you are essentially trying to defend. And I think that's where, if you're an outsider, it looks a bit murky because when you look at what the Internet says, there's an allegation around your business partner booking an appointment and perhaps that appointment not being what it was originally intended to be, which is this do and go. And so Esther gets left in this position where she's like, wait a minute, they wanna film my technique. This is a partner of Patrick's and this isn't something I'm, you know, comfortable with. And then there's a separate thing of you filming some content and verbatim using some of painted by Esther's language. And I think that there's no smoke without fire. It's like the one thing happens, the second thing happens, the third thing happens, and all of a sudden you find yourself in the eye of the storm. Now I' sitting here saying whether you're wrong or right. I'm asking really the question to you is having had the benefit of hindsight and been able to look at what's happened, would you have done anything differently?
- [48:45]
Patrick Ta
I want to touch on my business partner reaching out to Esther to do her makeup. This was not a brand related thing. So Rima, my business partner, reached out to Esther on a personal level to get her makeup done for Easter brunch. And content was always like within the app.
- [49:04]
Emma Greed
Oh, so it wasn't a do and go.
- [49:06]
Patrick Ta
It was, it wasn't a do and go. It was always in the ass with to her team. They sent over a rate and then changed the rate a few days later. And Rima declined. So the job never happened.
- [49:22]
Emma Greed
Also, Rema declined. So actually I feel like the story on the Internet is the other way around. The story on the Internet is that a do and go was booked, the booking then changed on the day of into I wanna be able to film this content. And actually it was Esther who decided, I'm going to cancel the appointment because she wasn't comfortable showing, you know, doing her technique. I think specifically with your business partner.
- [49:48]
Patrick Ta
Yeah, I think being an artist myself and having an agent, I don't know everything that my agent communicates with the client. And I think that is something that happened between her and her agent with the communication because we have all the emails and it is like stated exactly as that.
- [50:10]
Emma Greed
Oh, fair enough. What do you think about the criticism in terms of this idea of how you have presented yourself online with some of the language being extremely similar to videos that Esther's done in the past, because there are things in these videos like she fucks up and she says something like back of palm instead of the back of your hand. You know, there's this thing about, you know, using a sponge and that being the technique. There's all of this stuff being thrown at you and I feel like at some point like you'll want to clear that up. Like you want people to understand. Are you copying Esther's content? Did you look at her video? And let me just be honest, I think that very often I have looked at things and taken inspiration. The question is, did you look at a video and take inspiration?
- [50:53]
Patrick Ta
No. I filmed that video months before during my campaign shoot, knowing that I wouldn't have time to create content during the actual launch. Her content came out just a week prior, so there is no way that I could have copied her.
- [51:17]
Emma Greed
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- [53:38]
Patrick Ta
I reached out to Esther to have a conversation, artist to artist, and she hasn't responded. I have had nothing but amazing interactions with Esther. So I'm actually really shocked that, well,
- [53:51]
Emma Greed
she's someone you admire. You admired her enough to think that she's great and you've loved what she's done in the past.
- [53:58]
Patrick Ta
Yeah. So I'm just like, really? How this all unfolded was just, like, honestly, like, really unfortunate.
- [54:05]
Emma Greed
No fair. I. Listen, I think it's really important to have the conversation. And I think as a business owner, I would be lying if I said I hadn't found myself in similar situations. And I have. Have absolutely always tried to resolve them woman to woman. I mean, I had a situation not so long ago, actually, where we had made, you know, like, what do you call it, a sleeping mask in one of my brands. And the woman who owns this incredible, you know, the silk company that does the hair bands and the face masks and the pillowcases, she reached out to me and she said, hey, Emma, you have copied my mask. And I said, no, no, no, there's no way we have. And she said, yeah, girl, you have, because we have a proprietary way of padding the masks that protects your eyelashes. And I. I was like, let me check this out. I had a look. She holds a pattern for that. And I was like, oh, shit. Now, I always think that when you're dealing with a situation like that, throwing your hands up and going, you know what? And which is what I did. I phoned her up. I said, I think that I have X amount of thousands of these left. I'm going to take them off the website. I am so sorry, we will not continue with this product. And I don't know, maybe three months later, something came up where I needed this type of product, and I called her up and we did a collaboration and Right now there is a collaboration between our brand and her brand that's in the stores. And we figured it out. I have had countless things that have happened like that and some that have ended up in worse situations and gone all the way through the kind of legal system and some that have, you know, ended less well. But I feel like there's always a way to resolve. So long as you're going, here's the thing I did and here's the accountability that I took. I'm sure that you feel a sense of accountability in all of this.
- [55:47]
Patrick Ta
So as a brand founder and as the, the brand being my name, I take full responsibility of everything that this brand does. And
- [55:58]
Emma Greed
you look really sad about it.
- [56:01]
Patrick Ta
I'm like, I'm sad that my, I don't have like the right word, but I think I'm sad that like people are, are taking my integrity away from me when I can't even like defend myself, which I'm not trying to defend myself.
- [56:25]
Emma Greed
You know, I never found a situation like this where there wasn't a way to make amends. And I think artist to artist, when two incredibly creative and talented people, you know, I'm sure she doesn't feel so great about the situation either in a different way. But I'm pretty sure that if the intent is the there to make amends, that you'll be able to do that. And I hope that you find that because that's kind of what I'm seeing in your face and your eyes right now.
- [56:52]
Patrick Ta
I still respect her so much as an artist. I would love to do something with her. It is really unfortunate how this all unfolded and I want to work with her, I want to have a conversation with her and I want to hear her and really understand because I don't live her life. What this has taught me, like, I think it reminds me of the younger artists in myself of. I think back now like I am where I am. But if this happened to me as me as a younger artist and people not knowing who I am for something that like. Or not being recognized for something that I contributed to, I would be upset. So it is especially important for me to allow people to feel seen just as much as. Because I wish for.
- [57:42]
Emma Greed
Yeah, I feel like your whole brand has really been built on that from the beginning. And so I genuinely hope that you can find the resolve. I really, I really, really do. You know, when I think about it and you know, I experienced so much of this myself recently. Like the Internet is such a double edged sword, right? Cause you've essentially built your brand on your social media presence, on your incredible clients and your artistry of course. But it's like what that what social has given you, it can also have this like other side, this kind of underbelly to it. How are you at point in your career as a 35 year old man thinking about the way that you turn up in an online environment, in a social environment. Has that shifted and changed for you?
- [58:22]
Patrick Ta
It has not really shifted for me. I feel like I've had a very slow and steady career. I've never had like a shoot up to like, like stardom. I've been in the industry for a very long time and, and I use social media for what it is. I share my own personal experiences, I share my artistry and I share my life. And I'm going to continue to because I do it because I love it. There are perks and there are things that come with it, but I think it's where we are.
- [58:58]
Emma Greed
It's where we are. It's part of it. What do you think the next chapter looks like for Patrick Tarpon, Beauty So
- [59:06]
Patrick Ta
even though the brand is seven years old, there's so much that I want to do. There's so much like purpose driven initiatives that, that I want to do. We launched like three years ago. Beauty that brings you out. When I was like with my team like concepting that like tears like ran down my face when, when, when I heard Beauty that brings you out. Because I connect with it so much. Beauty has brought me out of the closets Beauty. It's given me me my voice.
- [59:36]
Emma Greed
This feels like it means a lot to you. Why do you feel so upset?
- [59:40]
Patrick Ta
I am a very empathetic person because of my life experiences and I feel like what people feel and it just makes me sad that I contributed to
- [59:58]
Emma Greed
something like I understand, you know, I think it's actually extremely reassuring that something like this actually touches you like that. Because if you were sitting here feeling totally fine and trying to move on, I think that that would be far worse. I think that you are somebody that has tried to understand the impact of what's happened even if it wasn't your intention. And I can only say that I feel like, you know, you know I wrote a book recently and lots of it was extremely loved and extremely well received and other parts of it were really not. And you know, you immediately for me I felt extremely combative and then I was like, oh shit, like let me listen to some of this stuff. And actually it's really amazing to be at the top of your game and have something kind of shake you to the core and have a moment of reflection, and you know what happens? You fucking grow from it. And you know this because you've been bankrupt, you've had shit things in your life, had ups and downs, and when you are, you know, growing something, shit happens. Like, it really, really does. The only thing that would be worse than now is if you didn't learn anything from it. That's what it comes down to. And it feels to me like you are just going through the moment of learning through it. So good for you. Good. I'm glad you're fucking upset. And I think that you're amazing and you'll figure shit out. I'm so happy that you would even come and speak so honestly about it because a lot of people would have their fucking teams tell me, he doesn't want to talk about it. You can't ask this question. You can't say that. And so I give you full credit for actually having the balls of sitting there and willing to take the questions and have the conversation about it, because a lot of people shy away from it. So I'm grateful to you. When you think about where you are right now in your life and with this brand, what is it that you still aspire to?
- [61:54]
Patrick Ta
Like I said in the very beginning, I've always been a dreamer. And something that I always like to say is I like to dream with my eyes closed because I want to be able to create and see what others can't.
- [62:08]
Emma Greed
That's so poetic and beautiful. That's a good answer to that. It's really good. All right, I'm going to move you to some rapid fire and get you the fuck out of here.
- [62:16]
Patrick Ta
Okay.
- [62:17]
Emma Greed
All right, you ready? What's one product in your line that every woman needs right right now?
- [62:21]
Patrick Ta
My lip balm, for sure.
- [62:23]
Emma Greed
What's one healthy habit or routine that you swear by God?
- [62:27]
Patrick Ta
I feel like I have a lot,
- [62:28]
Emma Greed
but give me them all.
- [62:29]
Patrick Ta
Don't gatekeep. Just trying to get myself to the gym.
- [62:33]
Emma Greed
How often are you in the gym?
- [62:34]
Patrick Ta
When I am in Los Angeles, at least, like four or five days. A week. When I'm traveling, maybe two.
- [62:40]
Emma Greed
What is the most underutilized makeup hack?
- [62:43]
Patrick Ta
Price setting your lip liner with powder so it's in your lip liner longer.
- [62:47]
Emma Greed
What is a book that changed your life?
- [62:49]
Patrick Ta
I'm gonna be honest. Like, I don't read that much, so I need to start.
- [62:53]
Emma Greed
I actually love that honesty. That is really good. I'll give you my book. You're supposed to say start with yourself, Patrick.
- [62:59]
Patrick Ta
Start with yourself.
- [63:01]
Emma Greed
That's it. Patrick. Thank you so much. You're amazing.
- [63:03]
Patrick Ta
Thank you.
- [63:04]
Emma Greed
I appreciate you being.
- [63:04]
Patrick Ta
Thank you for having me.
- [63:09]
Emma Greed
If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derrick Brown and me. Executive producers from Audacy are Asha Saludja and Leah Rees Dennis. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Kathryn Bale Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford. My teams at the lead company and wme Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meikle, Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me @aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed Me.
- [64:28]
Patrick Ta
I'm Glen Washington, host of Snap Judgment from kqed Everybody Week. Snapdraps you inside someone's biggest decision, the kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line. What do you believe? What do you want? And what would you risk to get it?
- [64:49]
Emma Greed
Find out.
- [64:50]
Patrick Ta
Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.