← Aspire with Emma Grede
Aspire with Emma Grede
From a Basement to a Billion Dollar Brand: The Greatest Founder Story You Never Heard
01:20:56
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- [00:10]
A
So today I get to sit down with the incredible founder Monique Rodriguez, who founded a company called Maille. Now, this is quite literally the American dream come true when you start a brand at your kitchen table, raise millions of dollars, and then sell it to one of the biggest conglomerates in the space. But it wasn't all smoot. And what I love about the interview is that she's really honest about what it actually took to build and sell this business when she didn't know anything about the space or the category and had no idea about what it would actually take to make it successful. What is so amazing is that Monique is actually on the other side. She's still the CEO of her brand, which was acquired by Procter and Gamble. It's pretty much a masterclass in what it takes. And I know you guys will love this, this episode. Don't forget to like and subscribe. The Start With Yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now@emmigrid.com Monique, welcome to Aspire.
- [01:15]
B
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. So happy to be here.
- [01:18]
A
And I am so excited to have you. We've got so much to talk about.
- [01:22]
B
Yes.
- [01:23]
A
So I'm trying to, like, figure out if we've covered it all before, but we're going to cover it for the people all over again.
- [01:27]
B
We're going to cover it today, I promise you.
- [01:29]
A
Oh, yes, we are. And I love you for that. When I think about you, Monique, your journey has been like, quite literally any founder's dream. And what I wanted to ask you was, like, when you pull the curtain back, what do you think the hardest part has been in building?
- [01:43]
B
Maelle wow. Well, I would say the hardest part in building my yell was not having anyone to show me the blueprint and really just figuring this out as I go. Like, we were flying the plane and building it at the same time. And so that can come with a lot of mistakes, a lot of trial and error. Also not having the capital to sustain. When we first started out, we were bootstrapping and using our paychecks and what we had in our savings to fund the business. And that was a huge risk because, you know, I was working as a nurse, my husband was an engineer, and we were really just betting on ourselves. And we had to make this work because, you know, we didn't have a plan B to fall back on. Right. We took all of our life savings. We took all of everything that we were making to just solely put it into myel and that's the hard part that people don't see. Like, they see the glory on the outside, but not really understanding, like, the turmoil that comes with the stress of not knowing where your next payment is going to come from to fund your inventory. And then you have your kids depending on you, and you don't want to disappoint them. And then you have the outside world that's looking at you crazy, like, well, you guys had great jobs. Why are you leaving these great careers that are very stable and you have your 401k and your pension to fall back on? Like, you're just throwing all of that away. So you're also dealing with the pressures of the families and friends that don't really understand and see the full picture. You know, you don't want to disappoint. You don't want to disappoint them, but more importantly, not disappoint yourself 100%.
- [03:14]
A
What would you actually say to other founders? Like, what do you wish you'd have known earlier in your journey?
- [03:22]
B
So what I wish I would have known earlier in my founder journey is that everyone's not going to like and agree with the decisions that you make as a founder, even if your intentions are very pure. And I had to learn that, obviously, when I did my acquisition with P and G, and I felt that this was something that I prayed about, I felt that, you know, this was something that was God led. And I knew that my intentions behind why I wanted to be acquired was very pure. But on the back end, I received a lot of criticism for that.
- [03:57]
A
Oh, you did? Really? I didn't know it.
- [03:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, right, honey, I felt it.
- [04:02]
A
I felt it. We are going to dig all the way in because people really have to understand what you've been through, what you built, the scale of what you built. And then, you know, I feel like you dealt with unbelievable backlash from the very community that you built this brand for.
- [04:16]
B
It's something that we should celebrate, right?
- [04:18]
A
Yeah, like, 100%. Like, I was Team Monique all the way in. All the way.
- [04:23]
B
I know you were.
- [04:24]
A
Let me tell you. I received the text visibly and noticeably in the text and in the comments. But I wonder what that actually teaches you about, like, anyone who holds an opinion of your decisions. Like, what? What do you think now? Having the benefit of hindsight and being able to look back at that moment through very, you know, rose tinted glasses. What did that moment teach you?
- [04:45]
B
You know, that moment taught me that you have to stay true to who you are and be your authentic self. And stay true to your vision. And it's okay to know that sometimes people are going to misunderstand you, especially when they're not coming from the same place that you came from. And, you know, like I talked about earlier, no one understands the blood, sweat and tears and the sacrifices that we put into building mielle. So I can't expect someone that, you know, didn't come from the same place that I came from, didn't walk a day in my shoes. I can't expect them to understand why I made the decisions and why I decided to, you know, partner with the brand that can take my brand to a global place. You know, when I built MIELLE from the ground up, I never wanted it to be mediocre. I've always wanted it to be a global brand. And so it really just taught me to just stay true to my vision, you know, hold onto that vision. But I knew that I needed to surround myself with the right people to help execute that vision. So I would tell founders, like, you know, stay true to your vision, stay close to it, but you don't have to be the one to always carry the vision with you. Like, that's a smart entrepreneur is finding the right people to help execute with you, not for you. So you can truly realize the full potential of what you started for me in my home, in my kitchen, right? And so to me, it's a huge success story. And, you know, I just feel that people may not get it, may not understand, but I know that my intention behind it was for people to have access to products that, you know, were not necessarily at shelf when I was a consumer looking for products and brands to support me and my hair journey. So at the same time, while, you know, our consumers or our community, we complain about, like, there's a lack of access, but when brands like MIELLE grow to the capacity and scale, you know, we shouldn't be criticized for doing the very thing that, you know, people complain about not having access to a million percent.
- [06:42]
A
Listen, and I think there's two sides of this conversation, right? Because what we're really talking about is, on one hand, a lack of understanding, perhaps a lack of what it actually takes and the reasons that people are able to buy and then have an exit like you had. And what I want to make sure that we do today is really take people on a journey, because it's so important to understand what you did, when you did it, how you did it, because you are such a blueprint for so many people out there. But by the same token, I really want to kind of dispel a few myths. And that, I think, is really, really important, because when you don't know better, you can't do better. And one of the reasons that I even started this show was really to lift the lid, right? To be honest about what does it take to raise capital? What do you need along the way? What does it take to exit a business? What happens on the other side of that exit? So we're gonna talk about a lot of that today. But if you don't know, if you've never done that before, if you don't know anyone who's ever done it, the kind of lack of understanding is what I think most visibly showed itself after your exit. It was really, like, more about worry, frustration. You know, it's like, is what she's done gonna, like, leave us and no longer belong to us? And so I think it's important to kind of like, explore a little bit around that. But before we do, we have to go back to growing up in Chicago, because your story is so won. And I wonder, like, what were you inspired by? Like, who did you want to be? Like, talk to me a little bit about little girl Monique.
- [08:12]
B
Yeah. You know, that's interesting. So, yes, I'm from Chicago, Southside, to be exact. You know, I have both my parents in the household, but, you know, I write about this in my book. My dad, he did suffer with substance abuse, but he was there. And, you know, seeing his struggle and what he went through, I feel like that gave me the motivating factor and the determination to, you know, say, I wanted to do something different. And I. And my dad passed away in August, unfortunately. Thank you. And as I sit back and reflect, I always tell myself, like, he went through the suffering and the pain so that I can run and continue on his legacy. So, you know, I look at the bright side of, you know, the life that he lived and the struggles that my mom had to endure in order for her to support two kids on her own, pretty much. And she did the best that she could, and she was really adamant about making sure that her kids knew how to survive in this world. So I didn't grow up with the mentality of, like, I'm going to thrive in life, right? Or, I'm going to be like such and such when I grow up, because, quite frankly, I didn't have examples of women that look like me that were, you know, business owners or doing something amazing, you know, operating in the boardroom and running businesses.
- [09:29]
A
What were your goals and aspirations? Do you even remember?
- [09:32]
B
Yeah, of course. So my goals and aspirations was what I did eight years before I started my yell, because that's what I saw. So my mom, she worked at a hospital and she was there for over 40 years before she retired. And she would take me to. This is when you could take kids to the hospital. So she would take me to work and, you know, I would see all of her nurse friends. And my mom was very strategic in like, putting me in that position and giving me that exposure, which is what was the best that she can do at that time. And I saw all of her nurse friends and that was my, my inspiration of like, okay, I want to be a nurse. Like, I want to take care of people. And so she was very adamant about, you know, if you do this and you become a nurse, it's recession proof. You always have a job, you always have something to fall back on.
- [10:17]
A
She was trying to give you a sense.
- [10:18]
B
She was giving me, like, stability and, you know, survival. So that's what I saw and that was what I wanted to be.
- [10:25]
A
And no aspiration to own a business, run a business one day.
- [10:29]
B
When I was younger, I've always been very independent and I've always been like a leader. Like if we were playing house or, you know, playing grocery store, I was the one that was always in charge. My mom would also work weekends, so I would be at home by myself. And it'll be me and my brother, and he's. He's younger, so he would be off doing his own thing, but I would be. I was bored. And I think that boredom is the birthplace of creativity. So in my mind, I would just sit there and just create and imagine this lifestyle that I wanted. So I imagined the lifestyle that I wanted at a young age, but didn't necessarily know that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I didn't like, connect the dots. Right.
- [11:05]
A
Do you think about that now as like some kind of visualization? Like, do you even believe in that? What do you think it is?
- [11:12]
B
Yeah, I absolutely believe in visualizing your future. And one of my favorite Bible verses is write the vision and make it plain. So I'm a firm believer of like, what you visualize and you pray on that and you actually put the work in. You can bring your vision to fruition
- [11:28]
A
right in your story. And kind of, I've known you for a little while now, and I know that this big turning point came for you when you lost your son. And it feels to me like that was such a pivotal moment. Do you mind talking about that a little bit, because I feel like that was some of, like, the catalyst at what kind of gave you the impetus to be able to start on this journey of entrepreneurialism.
- [11:51]
B
Yeah. And I'll just, you know, just back up a little bit. As I was working as a nurse, you know, I did that for eight years. And as I talk about, like, all of these things were, like, festering in my vision. I never had the courage to, like, step out and just try something different. You know, throughout my nursing career, I tried to do a lot of different things. I went from direct sales, Mary Kay, Cincy candles. And so, again, like, that entrepreneurial book was always there. Right. Didn't quite define what it was at that time. And I went through the tragic loss of my son in 2013 when I was eight months pregnant. His name is Milan.
- [12:25]
A
And I'm so sorry for you. I think so many people listening will understand that pain and that devastation. And I think that one of the reasons I wanted to touch on it is because for you, it was such a kind of a pivotal moment. A pivotal moment. And so it's so incredible to watch who you are now and to understand that it kind of came and was born out of such unbelievable pain. No doubt.
- [12:48]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And that's how Mayell was created. Because, you know, my son, he unfortunately passed away, but I feel like his impact in my life, into our family's life was more impactful. And he wasn't even here for a long time on this earth. And my son allowed me to develop courage, because when you go through tragic things like that, you know, it really causes you to, like, take a step back and do a lot of self reflection. And my pregnancy was high risk. It was also high risk for my life. And I'm like, look, you only get one shot at life. And I no longer wanted to live life based on someone else's terms. I no longer wanted to live my life based off of what my mom wanted for me and my son. Milan also allowed me to gain a closer relationship with God. And that's when the moment that was so pivotal for me changed. Because even though his death was so traumatic and so heartbreaking and so hurtful, but it was a gift. And sometimes pain can come in a gift, but the gift doesn't always come wrapped in shiny wrapping paper. Right. It can come ugly, messy, whatever. And we don't look at it in that moment as, like, this is a gift that God has given me. But I had to shift my narrative and not ask God why me and but what are you trying to show me from this? And so the courage that I had to leave my nursing career, no matter what everyone else was saying, no matter how many times my mom begged me to continue to renew my license, I had to, like, turn off the distractions, ignore the noise, and say, you know what? This is for me because this is my life. This is not no one else's life. And I have to do something that brings me joy and fulfillment. And starting myel gave me that creative outlet.
- [14:48]
A
First of all, it's incredible that you had this gift. Out of this tragedy came this courage, because so many of us can live with fear, and we have these big ideas about our life and big ideas about what it is that we want to do, but they stay kind of trapped. And I feel like, you know, I've just written a book, and one of the things that I talk about is the emotions that hold you back and how being able to get out of that space and get past fear is probably one of the most important things specifically for women that we can do. So I want you to talk just a little bit more about that, because one of the scariest things in the world is starting a business, especially for somebody like you who has everybody in the background telling you that it's the wrong thing coming out of tragedy, but also, like, not knowing, like, what to do, like, what's the first step? So take me back to that original moment when you're like, okay, I'm gonna use this kind of literal, God given courage and I'm going to start this thing. Like, what was going through your mind and were you so, so scared?
- [15:54]
B
Yeah. And I think that's the misconception is that I think people look at people like me and you and say, oh, they're fearless. Like, they're, they're never scared to do anything. Like, I'm scared. I'm scared right now, right? Like, it's. We're always scared. And that's the thing. Like, you have to do it despite being afraid. And that's really what courage really is. And even if you have, like a little bit of courage, that's all it takes. And so, yeah, when I think back to starting and stepping out on faith, I think my situation was also a little different because the courage that I gained came from loss. And so when you go through loss and when you go through tragic things in life, you have the mentality, you have a different perspective on life. Because my mentality at that time was, well, what else do I have to lose? Right? You know, I've already gone through, like, the most traumatic thing in my life.
- [16:46]
A
You've gone through hell, yeah.
- [16:48]
B
Like, what can happen from here? I fail. Like, if I fail, then that's still not worse than what I've just gone through. I also had the thought and mentality of, like, I don't care what anyone else says. Like, do you guys understand what I've just gone through? Like you telling me that to be stable and to stay in my nursing career because it's safe and it's job security. It's not really job security. If what I went through couldn't save me from what I've gone through. Right. I had to change my mindset from a spirit of lack to a spirit of abundance, knowing that whatever I put out there in the world and I work for it, I'm going to attract that. Right? You're going to attract that. I'm going to attract the abundance that I'm focused on. Like, when you focus on lack, what you focus on grows. And I just had to shift my mindset and say, I'm not going to allow my circumstances to define my future. I'm going to take hold of my future because I do feel that I'm co creating with God and we're going to create.
- [17:45]
A
But it's an interesting way to look at it because. And listen. One of my favorite episodes we've ever done of this podcast is with a guy called Rich Kleiman that talks about the chaos that he had in his childhood and how that's actually benefited his career and what he does and how he kind of moves through the world now. And actually when you check it, it's like, he would never be able to do that job had it not been for this sort of training and being forged in fire. And I think so much about what you're. What you're talking about right now is very, very similar. It's because of where you came from. It's because of the things that happened to you that you were able to kind of take this initial step. And I think one of the reasons you've been able to be so successful, because it gives you not just discipline, but it gives you some distance through which you can see things really clearly. So talk to me about those early days. You make a decision in your head that you are going to start something. What does it actually look like?
- [18:40]
B
Yes. So I actually started on social media. It was 2014. So Instagram, actually, it was 2013. I'm sorry. And Instagram was just pictures. And I remember Scrolling on Instagram and seeing, like, these girls with these beautiful, luscious curls. And, you know, I have two girls and they were younger at the time, and they have beautiful, luscious curls. And I remember, like, I used to have beautiful, luscious curls. What happened to my curls? After, like, years of, like, straightening my hair and having so much heat damage, I went on a mission to figure out how to restore my own curls.
- [19:10]
A
But were you making products or are you making just stuff that goes on your head?
- [19:13]
B
I was making stuff that goes, like, my intention was not to start a brand. Like, this was really hard, just to
- [19:19]
A
have it on social media.
- [19:20]
B
Yeah, I was trying to solve a problem for myself. And I'll tell you, my initial idea was actually to create a hair salon that was like, before my el. So I was like, I'm gonna create this hair salon. And that evolved into now figuring out, okay, how do you make these, you know, different concoctions? And so I started with, with food products and, you know, putting egg and mayo, you know, the traditional what your grandmother tells you to, like, mix together. And I realized that, you know, I had one incident where I put egg in my hair, got in the hot shower, the egg cooked in my hair, and it was like so hard. It was like crumbled egg, like scrambled eggs in my hair. And it was so hard to get out. And so I'm like, okay, this is clearly not the right thing to do. And so again, I'm very self aware and I knew that my level of expertise probably stops here, but I knew, I understood, like, the science behind, you know, how to properly take care and maintain your hair. So I said, I want to find a chemist that can help, you know, extract the ingredients that I have in my head and help me create formulas that will actually work and give me the benefits and the desires that I want for my hair. Without eggs cooking in my hair, I mean, it's a.
- [20:34]
A
It's a good way forward.
- [20:35]
B
So.
- [20:36]
A
So at this point, okay, you're on social media. Do you remember how many you had, like, did it start to, like, track?
- [20:42]
B
No, I didn't get a lot of traction at first. I think people were very confused as to, like, what I was doing.
- [20:47]
A
What is she doing?
- [20:48]
B
Yeah, because the people that were following me, they knew me as like a nurse, a mom, a wife. And here I am posting these eggs concoctions and showing the actual, like, demonstration. And people are like, what? Like, I even got messages like, what are you doing? My husband would even ask, like, what are you doing? What Are you putting in your hair? Like, he didn't even realize what I was doing at that point. I don't even think I realized it. And I said, I'm trying to create these products, but I know that I'm not doing it right. So I want to find the right person to help me, like, create these formulas.
- [21:18]
A
It's crazy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So you call a chemist and you start making product.
- [21:23]
B
Well, it wasn't that easy. Like, I had to call several different chemists and manufacturers.
- [21:28]
A
Where did you even get the. Like, tell me, like, what did you do? Because this is where people always. In a store. It's like. So then I started, you know, canning the drinks or then I started, you know, like, whatever it is. It's like, at what point? Like, where'd you get the chemist details? What was the first meeting? How did you. What did you pay them? Like, give me this. That early?
- [21:47]
B
Yeah.
- [21:47]
A
Dirty information.
- [21:48]
B
Yeah. So I found the chemist that I started working with on Google.
- [21:53]
A
Okay.
- [21:53]
B
So I would just Google, like, chemists, manufacturing companies, facilities. And so I started with going to manufacturing facilities first.
- [22:02]
A
Got it.
- [22:02]
B
And that wasn't working because they all required high minimums, and I couldn't afford that. And so if you wanted to, like, create and formulate, like, one product, the minimum would be like 10,000. And as a new entrepreneur, I couldn't afford 10,000 just for one product. And then I hadn't tested the market, so I really didn't know if this product was going to be a hit or not. So I continued to Google, continued to, like, set meetings. I was traveling to, like, California, Minnesota, like, the places that I knew that had, like, big manufacturing facilities, that were experts in hair care, textured hair. So it can't just be, like, a regular manufacturer. I knew exactly the industry that I wanted to work in. And so I was fortunate enough, like, after maybe calling 20 different chemists and manufacturers, I was able to find a very small local chemist in Chicago that they were also up and coming as well, and they were looking to partner. They wanted to stay behind the scenes, and they were looking to partner with someone that understood brand building.
- [23:03]
A
Do you.
- [23:04]
B
I didn't understand brand building.
- [23:06]
A
How did you convince them you understood brand building?
- [23:08]
B
I didn't understand. No. But we. They took a bet on me. Like, we took a bet on each other.
- [23:15]
A
What did you. And you took a bet as well because what did you have to pay? Like, because again, you're on a nurse's salary at this point. You've got two small kids and a husband. What did you even decide would be an okay amount to spend on this exploration.
- [23:29]
B
Yeah. So here's what I did. So they have very low minimums. I think their minimums were probably like 50 at the time. Okay. I can't remember exactly right, you know, off the top of my head. And their costs were very cheap. So I'm thinking the price was maybe $3 per bottle at that time. That was doable for me and they were willing to work with me. So, like, I don't know if you. Do you remember layaway? We had layaway. You know, back in the day, my mom would go to the store and put her.
- [23:56]
A
Did you put it on layaway?
- [23:57]
B
Yes. Shut up.
- [23:59]
A
That's am.
- [24:00]
B
So like, I would order my products of what I wanted to produce and formulate. I would make a payment. And then we will make payment arrangements with them and say, okay, well, you know, we get our paychecks on such and such day. In two weeks, we're going to pay the remaining balance and then you'll ship us to order. So it was kind of like everything was on low way, even down to the website designer, the graphic designer that we were working with. We had to pay, you know, once we got paid and then pay balances like when we got our paychecks in the next two weeks. So it was literally like hand to mouth. Yeah.
- [24:34]
A
Fast forward me a little bit to when you start realizing that there starts to be some success. Like when do you know and what is the moment of lift for you guys?
- [24:42]
B
I would say there are a couple of defining moments. One defining moment was the day that we launched, which was May 23, 2014. We literally sold out of every product that we had. And I probably had maybe like a hundred bottles. And I thought that inventory amount would last us for a good six months. Sold out of everything, you know, immediately. So that's when I knew that I was onto something. My second defining moment was about a year and a half later we got our call to go into retail, which was Sally Beauty was our first retail partner. And at that time I had realized and learned because this is a new space for me, a new industry. But I learned that there was never a new brand that had only been in business for like a year and a half that was having the opportunity to enter into retail in the textured hair care space. And so because I never focus on going into retail, I really focus on just building. And they came to me and that's when I knew that I had something that people wanted to have a piece of because I was solely focused on building the saying that goes, you know, if you build it, they'll come.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah.
- [25:50]
B
That was literally like my.
- [25:52]
A
And you were gonna say, there's one other moment.
- [25:54]
B
Yeah. And then the other moment was when we actually launched into retail. So we launched in Sally's and I know it was a defining moment because I will never forget the date it February 19, 2016. And we launched and we sold out. We only they tested us in like 95 stores. Because that was a big test. Yeah, that's a big test. But the demand grew so fast that when we launched the day of, we sold out in two hours. And when we had, you know, our mavens, our customers going harassing the store managers and calling Sally's corporate demanding for Mielle to have more door count, that was the other defining moment of like, yeah, I think we've struck gold.
- [26:37]
A
You've really did. So you're three years into the brand at that point.
- [26:40]
B
Yeah.
- [26:41]
A
What did you and your husband, who's the COO of the company, what did you guys have to give up? Like, I'm trying to understand the trade offs because again, you're both working regular jobs for all intents and purposes. So to get you through that Runway between the, this kind of small launch that you did of a hundred products through to retailers knocking at your door and then the launch at Sally's, like, what did that take for you two to be able to get there?
- [27:08]
B
Yeah. So one of the sacrifices was, you know, we were used to two incomes, you know, being a nurse, I had a good salary. Him being an engineer, he had a great salary. And going down from two incomes coming in the household to one. Because at that point I had left my job.
- [27:24]
A
So you decided, I'm all in on this.
- [27:26]
B
Yeah, I decided it six months after I launched that, you know, I decided to leave Fair there.
- [27:33]
A
I mean, it literally is life and death.
- [27:35]
B
And you. Yeah. So I'm like, my job is too serious for me to, you know, try to sacrifice that. So I decided to walk away from my job so I can solely focus on myel because Mielle was consuming so much of my time and my brain power because I was always thinking and creating in my mind of how do we, you know, attract new customers. So for us, that was the biggest sacrifice in the beginning was. Was leaving a steady job and narrowing it down to one income. And then for my husband, when he decided to leave, because he still stayed on board for about a year and a half. Cause he's like, I'm. He really thought he was going to, you know, stay at. He was working at ups.
- [28:13]
A
Yeah. I'm gonna ask my bets. He's like, I like what you're doing with your hair, but I'm not 100% sure.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, he's like, I'm staying here. I'm gonna climb the corporate ladder. And he's like, you know, we'll have, you know, my corporate career to fall back on. And he was working not. And it came to the point where, like, you know, we were sacrificing sleep and, you know, time with our kids, and there was just no way that we were able to, like, operate everything and still work corporate jobs. So he finally decided that he was going to leave. And we were not paying ourselves at that time either, so.
- [28:45]
A
Wow. So how did this actually impact your personal finances?
- [28:49]
B
Oh, it was impacted a lot. Like, our personal. Personal. We charged up credit cards. We went into, like, credit card debt because we still had to, like, maintain. And, you know, we tapped into our 401ks because our 401ks is kind of like what helped sustain us and got us over and also helped fund a little bit of the business as well, too. So we hung on that until we couldn't hang on for anymore. And then once we got the opportunity to go into retail, we started to see a little bit of profit from our E Commerce platform because our margins were, like, great, because it's all you. There's no middleman. So we were able to use some of those profits to kind of sustain us as well, too, until we got into retail. So when you get into retail, of course, they cut into your profit margins. And then that's when we got into trouble.
- [29:41]
A
That's when you got into trouble. Let's talk about the trouble. Because before we get to the glory, we know there's an ugly part. The messy. The messy part when the naivete's kind of over. So talk to me about what that looks like, because I think that, again, we only see the really glossy part. We look at you now and, you know, incredibly successful family. What did that time teach you and what actually happened? Like, how. Because I'm assuming at this point, Monique, you guys, you're quitting your jobs. You clearly know that there's something amazing here. But at this point, you still don't really have like. Like advisors and people around you. Like, you guys are making it up as you go along. And when you make it up as you go along, you inevitably make mistakes. So what did that time look like for you guys?
- [30:29]
B
Yes. So you Know, we had one mentor at that time that we entered into retail, which happened to be our sales broker. So she was helping to broker the deals in retail. So she was kind of like a guiding angel in the beginning because she really helped educate us on the industry and retail distribution.
- [30:49]
A
Where'd you find it?
- [30:50]
B
So, funny story, we found her through one of the beauty supply stores that we were selling at. It was like a smaller chain beauty supply. And we were selling so quickly out of her store that she was actually friends with our sales broker.
- [31:05]
A
She said, I see an opportunity for myself.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah, she said, I see it. She said, I see. And it really wasn't for her because once you go into retail, it takes away from her business. So it was really just her genuinely wanting to help.
- [31:16]
A
That's so nice.
- [31:17]
B
And she said, I have this sales broker that she understands, like distribution, Target, Sally's, Walmart's of the world. She can really help get you into these chains. And, you know, at the time, I was. I didn't know anything about retail, so I'm just like, oh, okay, great. Yeah. You know, people always talk a good game, and this is sometimes how we get in our own way. Because I was blocking that blessing because of my I'm childhood trauma. Like, just not trusting. No, of course I understand.
- [31:47]
A
I feel like we were all raised not to trust somebody. Someone's coming to you with a big, golden, shiny thing. I'm like, wow, yeah, you're a little skinned. Yeah. You're like, okay, totally.
- [31:55]
B
Everybody can get me into retail at this point. So, okay, long story short.
- [31:58]
A
And also, you don't know how it works, right? You don't even understand that to get into a Target, to get into a Walmart, that a broker is needed.
- [32:04]
B
And it wasn't my goal. It wasn't even my goal at that time. Like, I was like, I'm gonna go into retail. Year five.
- [32:09]
A
Yes.
- [32:09]
B
That was my goal. And so she asked me about maybe two or three times, have I. Cause she gave me Jermaine's number. And she's like, have you called her yet? Have you reached out to her? And I'm like, no, not yet. So finally, my husband, we're all on a call together. And my husband's an aggressive. You've met my husband?
- [32:27]
A
I met him.
- [32:27]
B
He's an executor. He's like, we gotta get stuff done. And he gets on the call, he's like, you haven't called this lady that she's been telling you about? And I'm like, no, we'll get around to it. Like, we don't even know this lady. Like, how do we know that she can do what she says she can do? So my husband calls her, and she flew in right away. She looked at our analytics on our backend E commerce and was blown away by our sales. And she actually did what the lady said that she could do.
- [32:54]
A
And she was almost like a mentor for you in the early days.
- [32:57]
B
She was like a mentor. So she came on board after we, you know, got.
- [33:01]
A
You hired her?
- [33:02]
B
Yes.
- [33:02]
A
Was she your first hire?
- [33:04]
B
So from. She was our first strategic hire, yes. Yes.
- [33:08]
A
Yeah.
- [33:08]
B
Correct.
- [33:09]
A
That's unbelievable.
- [33:11]
B
Yeah.
- [33:11]
A
All right, so what were the mistakes? Because again, you start to. You're in Sally's, you start to expand your retail footprint. You're obviously selling through your own direct to consumer platforms. When did it start to kind of go wrong?
- [33:24]
B
Yeah, so it went wrong because I think it's important for any founder. You got to know what's coming in and what's going out. And even though, like, that's not. It may not be your lane of expertise, you got to find the right people that understand that space and that are experts in that space and, you know, ask a lot of questions and do as much research as you can to have a good set of understanding of, like, a little bit about what they do. So they're not like just blowing smoke over you. Right. And that was the error that we made because we had, you know, our accountant team that was, you know, doing our books as we went into retail and didn't really understand the space. So you have what you call trade spin in the retail space, and then you have your marketing spin. So the accountant that was working on, we didn't have a cfo. We had an accounting, like, firm. They were mixing our tradespend and our marketing spend together. So we thought that we had more money to spend in marketing than what we had because.
- [34:30]
A
So you ended up really overspending in marketing.
- [34:32]
B
We overspent, like, a lot.
- [34:34]
A
Yeah. Which warps everything.
- [34:35]
B
Right.
- [34:36]
A
I think for anybody that's listening, this idea, because you'll be acquiring customers really quickly, but it means that everything that you're seeing isn't really true because you're overspending to acquire a customer. And all of a sudden the whole thing, like, all of your data is out of whack, right?
- [34:50]
B
Yeah, our data, our books work.
- [34:53]
A
And that's what's so difficult because again, I think in the early days, I mean, I'm highly dyslexic. And so my first hire is always an internal finance person, because I don't know what's happening unless that person is sitting right next to me and translating it for me. Because I don't see the numbers, and I don't see the patterns in the numbers as quickly as somebody else might do. But I think that when you outsource that financial function in the beginning, you lose touch with it a little bit.
- [35:20]
B
Right.
- [35:21]
A
That distance doesn't help. You need it close to you 100%.
- [35:25]
B
And, I mean, obviously we didn't know that. No, you don't know what you don't know. So we were trusting this firm to manage our books, and they were a firm, so not only were we clients, but they had many other clients that they were managing as well. So you also lose that, like, touch of, like, being close to the business. Like, they're only doing what they're, you know, what they're receiving, but not digging deeper and asking further questions and not having relationships with the retail partners and the marketing consultant team that we were working in. So they're not even being very thorough and, you know, monitoring our spend. So that's why they ended up booking, trade, spending, marketing together. And so we realized that, okay, shoot, now we're in the hole, and now where do we get funding from? And so our next step was we wanted to apply for a line of credit. So we ended up getting a line of credit from the bank. And again, we used our line of credit incorrectly as well. We had the line of credit, but not having the right people to help us understand and manage the line of credit, if that makes sense.
- [36:25]
A
Yeah.
- [36:26]
B
So now the money that we were in the hole with marketing, we're still spending, but we're spending and we're pulling from the line of credit, which is
- [36:34]
A
costing marketing expensive money. Yeah. I mean, it's a slippery, Slippery.
- [36:39]
B
It's a slippery slope. And. And the line of credit should have been used to hold inventory.
- [36:44]
A
Yeah.
- [36:44]
B
So now we're strapped. We have all of this great momentum. And the marketing works. Right. Everyone knew about the brand, and the brand was like, exploding you a gajillion dollars, but it was costing. We were in the hole. So when you lift up the hood and you look underneath, you're like, whoa, like, this is not good. This is not good.
- [37:02]
A
Did you ever feel like giving up? Like, was there a moment where you were like, I don't know what I'm doing and I can't do this?
- [37:09]
B
Absolutely. I felt like giving up at that point. Because when we use our line of credit incorrectly, and, you know, this now
- [37:17]
A
being my lifeline and. Oh, God, that's not working.
- [37:20]
B
And we put our house up. Yeah. So that's.
- [37:24]
A
Oh, my God. I had like a sweat burst then, like, literally it's like nothing.
- [37:28]
B
But the great thing about it is I can laugh about it now.
- [37:30]
A
Well, you're good, babe, so you can laugh about it now. At the time, though, you're again, young parents, you've got this amazing opportunity, and it feels like it's slipping through your fingers. Did nobody ever say to you, like, don't put your house on the line?
- [37:43]
B
No, no one ever said that.
- [37:45]
A
Which is so crazy because I remember, like, one of the. Of my earliest lessons was don't use your home as collateral.
- [37:53]
B
No one ever told us that. And that. And for us, that was the only way that we were able to get the line of credit. Right. Right. We didn't have image, we didn't have assets for them to, like, lend against. So our home was our collateral. And so when the banks are knocking at your door and they're calling your line due and they're threatening to take your home, that's when I'm like, okay, I don't know if we're gonna make it. If, you know, if this business is going to sustain this and that's how, you know, like a good business. Can it sustain under pressure? Can you sustain as a leader under pressure?
- [38:33]
A
It's a huge signal and a huge sign. So how'd you get out? Like, talk to me about what that looks like.
- [38:38]
B
Yeah. So how so such. Such a. Interesting story. So my husband and I, we were pretty desperate and we were talking to different investors and really just pitching our company because the company was doing great on the outside.
- [38:55]
A
So people was coming to you.
- [38:57]
B
Consumers, not investors.
- [38:58]
A
No, investors.
- [38:59]
B
No, not investors. We were pursuing investors because we needed. We were basically two, three million dollars in the hole. And as an investor, that's not necessarily attractive. Right. So we were, you know, pitching the bright side and the upside of the country, the not country company, the future of like, the what Miel could be if you just believe in us and believe in our vision and believe in us as people. So we ended up talking to this one investment group that were. They were a newer investment friends and family group. They also had experience in our industry. So we felt some synergy there. And we felt, oh, like, you guys know what we. What we've gone through, you know, the mistakes that we've made. Like, you understand, you can feel our pain because you've been there and we Went through. We'll get there. So we went through at least six months of diligence with them. And so they finally came back with an offer, and they said, okay, we're going to give you $2 million, but we want 40% of your company.
- [40:03]
A
Oh, so you didn't do that deal.
- [40:06]
B
Absolutely not. But here's. But it wasn't because I had the knowledge to say, no, I'm going to turn my back on this deal. We. We wanted to do the deal because we needed the money to survive.
- [40:18]
A
We needed more than $2 million.
- [40:20]
B
So we needed more than $2 million. And for me, when they presented this deal, it was something in my spirit that didn't sit right. But it was like, I'm fighting against. Against my gut feeling of not wanting to do this deal, but I'm also fighting that we need the funds.
- [40:34]
A
Yeah, you're desperate.
- [40:35]
B
And so they ended up backing out. Thank God, because they said, yes, this investment is too risky. We don't want to just pay for your debt. We want to invest in growth. And we're not.
- [40:51]
A
They shall remain nameless. Because I wonder how they feel now.
- [40:55]
B
They know who they are.
- [40:56]
A
They know who they are. We know who they are. Let's just say that. But thank God you did do that deal, because that is what we call, like, really. That would have been really cheap money for them. Oh, my God, that would have been devastating for you. So cheap and actually not even giving you the Runway to do what you needed to do to get out of the hole.
- [41:14]
B
And not just giving me the Runway, but also the expertise, because I don't even feel like they were going to have value for, like, the future of where we want us to go as a brand.
- [41:23]
A
But this is really important, Monique, because again, when people take money, often it's. They go out and they raise in a moment of desperation.
- [41:31]
B
Right.
- [41:31]
A
I don't think your situation is particularly unusual. And so that desperation really starts to cloud judgment. I love that that female instinct kicked in for you, and you were able to say, ah, this is probably not right. And you procrastinated long enough that you actually put them off. But people don't really understand what good money looks like, so I'm assuming you eventually found it. So maybe you can talk a little bit like that because you, at some point, you did actually go out and raise money.
- [42:03]
B
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- [42:08]
A
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- [42:11]
B
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- [42:23]
A
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- [42:25]
B
Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com Business Platinum. So after that deal went south and we did not try to force the deal back open, you know, we said, we're just going to have to figure it out. And we went on a quest to talk to different investors. So. So what happened was Richard Lou Dennis, who was the previous founder of Sundial Brands, he sold Shea Moisture for, like, a billion dollars. He started a fund called New Voices, and his fund was solely dedicated to investing in black women. And so I remember I met him in 2015, and we always just remained friends and very cordial. And I remember having a conversation with him a few years prior to all of this investment fiasco when he sold, and I said, wow, like, I want to do what you've done, but I want to do it even better. Right? And he's like, I got you whenever you're ready. Just, like, come and have a conversation. So I remember he said that, and I called him up when we were looking for investors, and I'm like, hey, let's just have a meeting. You know, we want to pitch to you. We're looking for investors. And we pitched to him the same pitch that we gave the previous investors that turned their back on us. And when we gave our pitch, he, like, literally looked at us and laughed, and he was like, your problem. Those problems are, like, been there, done that. Like, he really understood to my point earlier, like, he had built a brand. So, like, the problems that we were going through, sometimes when you are going through things as an entrepreneur, you think you're the only one that's going through that.
- [43:59]
A
Yeah.
- [43:59]
B
Right. So it's always refreshing to hear someone has gone through something similar and they have made it on the other side of that. And he's like, look, you know, let's have a conversation. You know, I'm interested in investing. And come to find out this is how aligned the story is. The banker that had been threatening us to take our home, our loan was in workout at that time. The workout guy happened to be college roommates with, like, I can't make this up. He happened to be college roommates with New Voices head of investments. And so when we had a conversation with him, he's like, I'm gonna call so and so.
- [44:39]
A
Like, I'll call my friend and tell him not to take you home.
- [44:41]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [44:42]
A
You're like, please let him know
- [44:46]
B
that's My friend, like, I'll let him know. We're invested in you guys. Yeah.
- [44:51]
A
You're going to come get on that.
- [44:52]
B
How much of a weight was lifted off of us?
- [44:54]
A
I can't even.
- [44:56]
B
Conversation.
- [44:56]
A
I can't even imagine. But it shows you the strength of business relationships, right? Because I always say you never know where, like, the help is going to come from.
- [45:06]
B
And so that's why you always be nice to people.
- [45:08]
A
You've got to be nice to people. You got to be nice to people, and you've got to realize that actually your relationships are going to be in the stranger. It's like, I've always made friends with the bank, with the factors, with the people, you know, it's like the less sexy people, right? Because it's like, at the end of the day, when the push comes to shove, that's your network. They're the ones who are making decisions. They're the ones who can really help you in a bind. They're the ones that have seen it, like, all the way down to bankruptcy. So they actually understand the unlocks, they understand the ways. I mean, that's more of a relationship factor that happened. But it's like, you need those people. So let's talk about it. You take an investment. Do you remember how much you raised at that point?
- [45:45]
B
Yes. So he gave us new voices, invested 5 million. Okay. For 10%.
- [45:53]
A
Okay. So not 2 for 40. Okay. Just saying. Thank you very much. Very decent.
- [45:59]
B
You see, like, a difference. And that's why, like, you know, sometimes rejection is our protection, because I turned around and had an amazing, better deal,
- [46:09]
A
not just on the monetary side, but also from an experience side and an infrastructure point of view and somebody to guide you through what was gonna happen next. All right, my got better stuff in your story. So here's the thing. How many raises have you actually done for the company?
- [46:22]
B
Yeah, so we did a raise. We did 5 million for 10% in 2020. So we closed, like, right before COVID hit. Boom.
- [46:28]
A
Thank you.
- [46:29]
B
Scary timing. So in Covid, we saw 4x growth because of that investment. And then at that time, I told my husband, I said, I think we should go for a raise because we had gone through such of a struggle trying to raise. And I remember my CFO telling me at that time when we were struggling, struggling, he said, the best time to raise money is when you don't need it because it gives you leverage. So now we have four experiences. Stop.
- [46:52]
A
One second. Let's just rewind that. For the people at home. Right? The best time because we spoke about the desperation moment. That's when people can and will just take advantage of you, but it's when
- [47:02]
B
you don't need the money and you have leverage.
- [47:05]
A
You have leverage.
- [47:06]
B
Yes. And so we became profitable for X Growth. And I said, we should do a raise. And he's like, are you sure? I'm like, yes, we're gonna do a raise. Because at that point, I started to see the trajectory where I wanted to go. And I knew that I wanted to have an exit. And, you know, having mentors like Rich Lou and seeing, like, the process that it took to have a successful exit, I knew that I wanted to start with private equity to help increase my value.
- [47:32]
A
So you're in learning mode the whole way through this journey.
- [47:36]
B
Right.
- [47:36]
A
And I think that that's really important because even the way that you speak today, it's like, I knew I needed this. It's like, I knew I wanted private equity. I knew an exit was on the horizon. I knew, like, so what does that even look like for you? Like, how and who did you learn from on the way up?
- [47:50]
B
I study people. So there can be, like, a brand or a company that I become super obsessed with. And I'll study. I'll watch every interview that that person have done. I read every book, every article that that person has done. And, you know, I think I share this in my book. And I think I told Rich this when he had sold his brand sundials to Unilever for, like, a billion six. I put that on my vision board, and I put my husband and I face over that.
- [48:20]
A
I didn't do that.
- [48:20]
B
I did, because I needed to see it. I said this.
- [48:24]
A
I did a real vision mode. I jumped. I got that.
- [48:27]
B
Like, I'm so serious about my visions. And so, yes, I actually did that.
- [48:31]
A
But that's a skill, right? Like, even when you think about this idea, because, again, so many people struggle with finding a mentor, and so many of us don't have access. And so I think that I'm very similar to you in that the fact that I made people my mentors who didn't even know about in my head. And as a result, I'm gonna read everything. I'm gonna be your stalker. I'm gonna watch every interview. I'm gonna watch the way you speak and the things that you've done, and I'm gonna, like, dissect them, because that is a really important part of it when you don't have the access.
- [49:03]
B
Yeah. And that's exactly what I did. Like, and I'm a very visual learner. And so, yeah, like, Rich was one of my mentors because I studied his playbook and I did have the opportunity to have access and ask question some of his resources. And, you know, I'm proud to say, like, you know, and humble enough to say, like, I don't know everything, but one thing I do know is I know how to ask a lot of questions. And sometimes if I don't know the right questions to ask, sometimes the best thing for me to do is just. Just to sit and observe.
- [49:31]
A
Yeah.
- [49:32]
B
And watch everything.
- [49:33]
A
You don't need to have an opinion on everything.
- [49:34]
B
Like, you don't have to be the loudest person in the room. You just have to be humble enough to know, like, okay, what can I learn from each person in this room? Because I don't want to be the smartest person in this room. So he was an instrument, that mentor. He introduced us to his investment banker and that's what positioned us to do our private equity raise. That was a six figure investment. And you know, at that time. No, I'm sorry, not six figures. Nine figures. Nine figures. Yeah.
- [50:00]
A
What?
- [50:00]
B
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm.
- [50:01]
A
One second. So wait a minute. You did a nine figure investment. Nine. You went from raising 5,5 million to raising a nine figure investment. And please tell me at this point, are you taking some money off the table? This is not all going straight into.
- [50:15]
B
Yeah. So that was the great thing about the leverage that we had was because, you know, raising a nine figure investment, and it was so powerful because I was the first African American woman in the textured hair care space to raise that much. And I still maintain majority ownership. So I didn't even give away, you know, all of my ownership. I still had a lot of leverage. And because we were so profitable.
- [50:36]
A
Because you were so profitable. Because we were so profitable, because it was so important. It's like you had basically put money in the center of your plans. You had built a profitable company, and as a result, you were able to go out and do a further raise on your own terms and take some money off the table.
- [50:52]
B
Take some money off the table.
- [50:52]
A
Right. So that's like the really, like the kind of important parts.
- [50:57]
B
You take money off the table and you're also increasing the value for your company. Yeah. So none of the money that we raised from Berkshire went to our balance sheet. That was all secondary.
- [51:07]
A
I mean, first of all, like, what do you feel like in this moment?
- [51:10]
B
Yeah, so, you know, I still live in New Original. Were we still.
- [51:15]
A
We still lived? No. So you'd moved out of the house that was going to be taken from you?
- [51:18]
B
No, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. We were still in our original house.
- [51:20]
A
Okay.
- [51:21]
B
The house that they were trying to take? Yes.
- [51:22]
A
Okay, so you were still there and you get all this money?
- [51:25]
B
Yes.
- [51:25]
A
What do you do? What do you do?
- [51:26]
B
I felt like I deserved this. Yeah, you did, because I worked hard for this. I went from the banks trying to take my house and threaten for threatening us for us to be homeless to now taking money off of the table. That was pretty life changing. Like, I felt like I worked hard for it and I earned it.
- [51:43]
A
Well, that's because you did. So I'm glad you felt like that. And don't nobody tell you any other way.
- [51:49]
B
No, no, no, no, no.
- [51:50]
A
All right. We know that you work with your husband, and so I want to ask you a little bit about that because, you know, I work with my husband too. And you're also a mother, and we need to talk a little bit about that. But on this business journey, you're now in this kind of beautiful position where you've taken some money off the table, you've de. Risked what it is that you do, and you've kind of paid yourself for this, like, grueling journey.
- [52:11]
B
We forget that we sold to P&G 18 months later.
- [52:13]
A
Well, then that, that's. That's where I'm going. I'm going there. Because that to me is like, why you are sitting here. P and G. For anyone who's sitting here thinking, P and G, P and G, Procter and Gamble are one of one. We talk about Unilever, we talk about Procter and Gamble. It's like when you create a company in this space, you are trying to sell it to one of a handful of people. Procter and Gamble being the gold standard. And so I wonder what that looks like for you because it's. It is such an amazing moment, but it's not an easy moment to transact with a Fortune 500 company like that and thinking about what that means on the other side of your business. So can you just talk me through?
- [52:55]
B
Yes. So when we decided to enter into a process to sell to P and G, we again hired another investment banker that helped prepare, you know, for, you know, what does the pitch deck look like? You know, what do we need to do to get things in order? How do we even pitch and have conversations with these strategic companies to get them even interested? The great thing about P and G was that they were interested. They have been watching us for a very long time. And that's why when I tell founders, when you are building a company, always build it like someone is going to buy you. Right. Because you never know who's looking. So you have to operate like a Fortune 500.
- [53:34]
A
She's giving us that. She's giving us the gems out here. I'm like, write it down. Like another reason. That's the, that's the pen and paper time. It's like, write it down. Build the company.
- [53:42]
B
Build a company. Company. Like you are going to have it acquired even if that's not your goal.
- [53:47]
A
And what, what do you mean by that? Like, talk to me about how you think about building a company. Like somebody's going to buy it.
- [53:54]
B
Yeah, infrastructure and like systems and processes, you know, having the right people. Like, we had to hire C suites.
- [54:02]
A
Such as.
- [54:02]
B
Yeah, such as, you know, a cmo. Like, I mean, of course, like I started the brand with marketing, but I'm not, I didn't go to school for marketing. I'm not a marketing expert.
- [54:10]
A
But I need to build a five year strategic market.
- [54:12]
B
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know how to do that.
- [54:14]
A
But why would you.
- [54:15]
B
I wanted to learn like the people that I hire, I want to learn from the people that I bring on board. A CFO was extremely important. Right? Because we have to make sure that we're done with.
- [54:25]
A
I was able to count no more.
- [54:29]
B
So we definitely had to have a cfo. We had to have a VP of operations. Like those were like some of the key hires because that was what helped build our infrastructure and prepared us to be ready for when A P and G came on board. We had to make sure that our manufacturing was solid and we had multiple manufacturers, not just one, because you lose leverage again. You can't, you know, put your manufacturers against each other to have the best price and so you can have the best profit for your company. You know, what's most important when we decided to partner with P and G is understanding. Like, you know, does this company also support our vision and where we want to grow as founders and as a company and you know, do we have the opportunity to stay on board to continue seeing the vision through and not just.
- [55:15]
A
It's always important to you because I think that one of the most extraordinary things is that you remain the CEO
- [55:22]
B
of your company still to this day.
- [55:23]
A
Still to this day. Which is bloody unusual when you go into a big conglomerate like that because usually there's some lovely Swiss man from P and G ready to be like, thank you, Monique and we'll see you later, love. But I think that more often than not when you get acquired, the original founder isn't always either fit for purpose or seen by the acquirer as somebody that they want to stay on and stay in that position. And so I think it's huge credit to you that that's the position that you're in. And we should talk about that a little bit. But I do love what you said about building the company to be ready for a potential exit. And that does take a different type of discipline and a different type of self awareness and knowing that you don't know everything and hiring people that have been there before that have more credibility, more experience, you will be essentially friendly to that acquirer. Right. Because there's so much that people look at in a business. Yes, you have to have a profitable company. Yes, you have to have a product pipeline that they believe in for the next, you know, five years or whatever it is. But they're also looking at what is the makeup of your company, who's in there? Are we gonna have to come into this thing and completely redo it or is there a team that we can rely on to take it into the next few years?
- [56:36]
B
Yeah, we had a well oiled in engine for them to come on board. For them, it was also them learning from us. You know, I knew that for me to be a global brand, like I wanted to have people that had a track record in building brands and maintaining their legacy in globalization. Right. And P and G had the infrastructure that I wanted MIELLE to have. Right. And what P and G wanted from mielle was the authenticity, the brand equity, the consumers, the innovation and the uniqueness that we brought to our community that wasn't able to be replicated by anyone else. And so it was a match made in heaven. It was a great partnership. So yes, when I came on board and when we sat at the table and negotiated, yes, it was me that had the leverage that was able to negotiate and say, I want to stay on as CEO because I want to see this vision until I'm ready and feel like you guys have and you can take it and run with it. And they were okay with that because they saw value in what I was able to bring to the table. There's so much power and leverage and negotiation and sitting at the table and saying like, this is how I want my legacy to be continued. And if you can't follow and abide by this brand and the magic that we've created Then maybe you're not the right partner.
- [57:54]
A
And is that what you did?
- [57:55]
B
And that's exactly what I did.
- [57:57]
A
So give me an idea of some of those, like, hard lines for you. What did you really want in that process and what were you able to negotiate for yourself and the company?
- [58:05]
B
So the first thing was I wanted to negotiate that I stayed on board as CEO.
- [58:09]
A
There was no part of you that's like, actually, I just want to, like, buy a house in Jamaica and leave. I shouldn't go and lie down in the day.
- [58:16]
B
Like, that gets boring. You know, I need concentration in my brain. And then the second thing was I negotiated for our formulas stay the same.
- [58:26]
A
This is your famous protection clause that you negotiated.
- [58:28]
B
Yes. And then for also our manufacturing to stay the same. So we did not change our manufacturers as well either. And there was no need to. It wasn't broke. Like, we don't have to fix anything. And then the third thing was kind of like a mutual negotiation because I said to them, okay, it's great that you want to acquire us, but what can you do to support the community that has got me here to this date? And then they came back to us and said, I see that you guys are really passionate about your community. You have this nonprofit, Miele Cares. We are going to step up and donate $10 million to support your community. Community for brown and black entrepreneurs.
- [59:04]
A
I love that. I mean, I know you and your
- [59:06]
B
husband, in addition to the price, obviously,
- [59:08]
A
in addition to that as well. And first of all, congratulations, because I think that's so incredible a for you to just share with everybody listening. And also the fact that you were able to align it with your broader goals as a family. Because I know that you guys are incredibly philanthropic and it is just amazing that you've been able to keep that as a kind of thread even after the session of the business. Let's talk about what happened after the acquisition. Because it wasn't all glory, right? It's like, so the investment bankers essentially do their job.
- [59:45]
B
Yes.
- [59:45]
A
You, the company is acquired by Procter and Gamble. You do remain in as the CEO. And I'm assuming you were able to do the deal that you wanted to do. And then it kind of goes a little pear shaped, as we would say in England. It goes a bit little.
- [60:01]
B
Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's. I expected it. Like I understood you did. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because I've seen like those that have gone before me and you know, with them doing great things and the backlash. So I knew that it was coming Right. And I said, I'm going to try to prepare as much as I can and try to be as transparent as I can with my community, because I do care about my community, and I care about educating and helping people understand, like, the why behind. Behind this. And I really wanted people to understand, like, this is not just a win for me, but this is a win for all of us. This is a win for women. This is a win for black women. You know, like, less than what is a.1% of women receive venture capital funding. Like, so for us to have a step in this direction, like, this is a win for all women entrepreneurs that are trying to operate and scale their businesses. And another reason why I wanted to partner with P and G was because the people that were around the table making these decisions, they were also people that look like me. They had such a diverse group of people, of C suite executives that were key decision makers that were advocating for P and G to purchase mielle. Like, just as much as we need women entrepreneurs, black women entrepreneurs in this space, we also need people on the other side of the table that look like us, that can help tell our story for us when we're not present. And that was something that was so important to me because I said, the next time when a black woman sits down at the table or when my daughter sits at the table, she's gonna have a better opportunity because of the doors that I've set down and open for her to make that path that much easier. So that's why we have to celebrate it. Right? So I tried to do that, but still, you know, people attacked me. The criticism came, and to be honest
- [61:42]
A
with you, it came really heavy.
- [61:44]
B
It came heavy.
- [61:45]
A
I mean, I think that this was a broader business story. This. This then didn't become about, you know, a black female founder that had done this unbelievable exit. It really came a broader story about a community that once supported you, that essentially felt like you were turning your back on them and as a result, really came at you. What do you think that we can do in terms of broadening our community's understanding and what have you done? Cause I understand, like, and I don't mean this in a. It's not in a defensive way, but I felt like you were having to defend yourself. And, you know, and it was easy for me to say. I was like, fuck everyone. Like, what's she apologizing for?
- [62:27]
B
Well, I wouldn't say I was apologetic about it at all because, you know, again, like, this is my conversations with God. And, like, this was Something that I prayed on. Like, I wanted this for me and my family and my community. So I'm gonna stand 10 toes down that my decision was a great strategic decision financially and strategically for me to ultimately recognize the potential of the brand and my legacy. So I'm a hundred percent certain in my decision on that. I will say that I had to ignore social media for a while. How long? I would say at least for the first, like, five days. And even now, like, I still don't, like, read the comments because people still flitter in every now and then. I think what was the most hurtful was when we got a text for saying that our formulas changed and that they were causing, you know, problems with consumers hair because of the acquisition.
- [63:23]
A
And you did make any formula changes.
- [63:25]
B
And we did not make any formula changes.
- [63:26]
A
You really. You didn't make any formula changes?
- [63:28]
B
Yes. No, we did not make any formula changes. And so that's why I'm like, like, this is coming out of left field. Look, if we would have made formula changes just like I told you we were acquired, I would have been transparent and told my community that we are changing the formul.
- [63:42]
A
Do you feel like it was malicious? Like, people were coming out of the woodwork just to have another thing to say to you? And it wasn't necessarily the truth of what was happening.
- [63:51]
B
I think the person that started that was being malicious, you know, it's just my honest opinion. Right.
- [63:57]
A
I think people are sheep and they come on.
- [63:58]
B
People come on. Now granted, you know, people do have issues with their hair and, you know, I empathize with that. Like, I understand that everyone uses products differently and may have different effects from the products. And I am here to. To help. Like, I'm not here to, like, pile on and, you know, add to the problem. Like, people have to remember that I created this brand to create a solution for people that look like me, that are suffering with hair issues. So why would I pivot my foundation and where I started from? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
- [64:32]
A
Well, not when it's been going so well. And.
- [64:34]
B
And Right.
- [64:35]
A
It's different.
- [64:36]
B
Can we say that again?
- [64:38]
A
Like, I think it's different when things are really going badly. You're like, let me change this. But you're like, I'm on a roll. Like, I just need to keep doing more of what I'm doing. So it feels I had.
- [64:47]
B
I, like, I did a video and again, I tried to be very transparent and explain to people, like, our formulas have not changed. We are still the same I that people purchase before the acquisition. And I'm not saying that women don't have hair issues or they didn't suffer, but what I am saying is that I am very transparent in our ingredient stories. And I love what I do. I use the products. My family use the products. Like, there is nothing that I would ever do to sacrif the integrity of our ingredients, nor will P and G ever do something like that. Like, if anything, they have become more stringent in making sure that we are delivering the best effective products and ingredients. And everything for me has gotten better, not worse.
- [65:32]
A
I love that you say that. Look, what I really think came out of that situation, and I give you full credit for it, is that there was a hell of a lot more understanding.
- [65:42]
B
Yeah.
- [65:43]
A
Because of the messaging that you gave, because of the conversations that were happening, even the heated conversations that were happening. So I actually think out of that came a new level of understanding of what it takes to build a business, what it means to raise capital, what it means to have a big acquisition, what happens on the other side. And so I think actually what happened was net positive. When you have hindsight.
- [66:05]
B
Yeah.
- [66:06]
A
Rather you than me. But I do think that people have a much better, much, much more open mind to understanding that that was actually a great thing. And because of you, Monique, there's like, literally like a gajillion little girls that are out there and they go, oh, my goodness, I could do that.
- [66:23]
B
And they're putting me on their vision board and cutting my face off.
- [66:26]
A
Cutting your face off? Like, absolutely. Here's hoping. So we're three years post acquisition now. Is that right? Do you feel like you have a lot to prove when you think about the brand? Do you think that you've still. That you're still trusted and there's still something for you, or are you over that at this point?
- [66:44]
B
Yeah. No, I think that MIELLE is still a very trusted brand. I do feel that I'm still a very trusted founder because, again, people know my character and my integrity, and that's something that you can't fake.
- [66:55]
A
No, you can't.
- [66:56]
B
So for me, I don't feel that I have to prove anything. All I feel like I have to do is just keep putting in the work and showing up with integrity when it matters most. Yeah.
- [67:06]
A
I want to talk to you a little bit about the money because I feel like it's so important. I wonder, first of all, you don't talk about how much money you made. Do you give us a number.
- [67:17]
B
You don't hear it from my mouth.
- [67:19]
A
Well, here's what I heard. For the people out on the streets, it's a lot. It's better. And actually, like, I mean, the people that I know, they say it was like close to 2, not quite 2 billion, but like in that kind of region. And she's just smiling at me right now, so we're just gonna keep going. Let me tell you something that I know. I look at you and I'm like, oh my God, she's out here. She's spent and scapro, scapro, scapularo. Amazing. I wanted to talk to you about your idea around money and how you think about money right now. Because you live like a beautiful lifestyle, quite rightly, and as you should, I wonder, has making all this money made you more disciplined around spending money or are you just like comfortable spending bigger?
- [68:01]
B
Yeah, my relationship with money is that I respect money. Like, I don't worship it, but I respect it. And money has been given me freedom and opportunity. And I feel that money only amplifies who you truly are. It just has allowed more doors and more things and more freedom that I can do. And also for me, what I really love the most is that my kids have the freedom and a different lifestyle than I had growing up. And that is the most rewarding thing is like, they don't have to like, figure out what they have to do right now for a job and a career. And they're their 20s. My 20 year old, she can like really explore and really figure out what she's truly passionate about. And it's because of the hard work that I have done and the lifestyle that I have created for them.
- [68:49]
A
No doubt. I mean, the, the ability to give your kids a different life has to be so high on the list. Do you have an investment strategy once you get all this money in the bank?
- [69:00]
B
Yeah. I will tell you the funny thing. My husband and I were still talking about this. I didn't realize that actually managing wealth is a full time job.
- [69:09]
A
Oh yeah. Do you remember that was our first conversation?
- [69:11]
B
Do you remember we had that conversation?
- [69:13]
A
Oh, yeah. I was like, girl, like, you really
- [69:15]
B
have to sit down and have meetings with your team then and be very strategic on like, you know, where are you putting your money at in the market, what investments you're investing in? And like, we're meeting with our team, you know, they would like to meet with us weekly if they had it their way. But you know, we meet with them monthly just to make sure that we're on the Right trajectory and that our investments are going in the right direction. It's another job.
- [69:40]
A
It is another job. Are you involved in it? Like are you the type of person that is like I need to be across there.
- [69:46]
B
So I'm involved. And you know, I'll be honest with you, I use AI to help me understand like the language because I mean I'm not familiar with that. So I always, you know, I ask a lot of questions and I about talk tell my team like to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old kindergarten so I can like understand exactly like where our money is going.
- [70:05]
A
Well, there's a mirroring from the early days of your business.
- [70:08]
B
Right.
- [70:08]
A
It's like you don't want to lose contact, you don't want it happening overnight. Yes.
- [70:11]
B
So we're very close. Yes. With our team.
- [70:13]
A
Stay close.
- [70:14]
B
Yes. Stay close, stay close. We've learned our lesson.
- [70:16]
A
You learned it. You don't need, no one needs to tell you twice.
- [70:18]
B
Nope, absolutely not. I mean that's insanity.
- [70:22]
A
It is. When you think about your kids now you're raising like very wealthy children. How are you encouraging and thinking about their relationship with money?
- [70:30]
B
Yeah. Well I first told my kids that like, you know, we have worked very hard for you guys to have this lifestyle. But I want you to remember, by all means, this is ours. We work for this and you have to go out and work for your own. My youngest daughter, we came here, we flew here commercial and she has her friends here. So I put her and her friends in economy just to like teach her a little lesson. Humble. Sometimes you gotta keep em humble. And then I sat in first class and she's like, you know, I don't wanna sit in economy, blah, blah. I said I work to be in this seat. You still have to work to get to where I'm at. So I, I want to keep my kids humble. Yeah, you get in the back of that plane and you will be fine. And I mean of course I do believe in rewarding them like they, they have been rewarded. Like they fly private jets and you know, they have a lifestyle. But I always remind them and keep them humble. Like the only reason why you have this is because of the work that we. So in order for you to sustain this, what work are you going to do or what thing are you going to create so you can sustain the lifestyle when you become older? And so my oldest, she has, you know, her own career path that she set out on. She's you know, an amazing full time content creator and college student. And so to see her, like, following my footsteps and, like, she has this, like, business and she's going to school for marketing, and, you know, because, you know, I am bored and I don't have a lot to do, we started a new brand called Win Athletics, a new fitness facility. And so now she's my marketing assistant, so she's assisting with that. So now we're building a whole new family business as well. So I just want them to see, like, you can create something in your mind and actually build it.
- [72:10]
A
Well, and more than anything, they watched it as kids, right? Absolutely. They saw it. They saw it. They saw it firsthand. They would have felt the anxiety of when it wasn't working, and they would have seen the upsides, and they've seen. Seen their life change and they knew their lives before. And so I think when you watch your mom and dad get up every day and go to work, that's better than anything you can tell them.
- [72:30]
B
You're showing them you have the first seat of experience, one on one.
- [72:36]
A
Seeing that just before we ignore him completely, because your husband has been a huge part of the success of this brand, and he's still the coo and you're the CEO of the company. What's that been like actually building this thing together?
- [72:51]
B
Yeah. So I think they're working with you. Your husband can be your greatest strength, but also your greatest challenge. And for us, what works for us is respecting each other's roles and communicating, you know, always keeping God first and understanding that even though we may have disagreements, arguments, or whatever, that is so minute compared to, like, the vision and the legacy that we're creating. So it's like, once you focus on, like, the overall vision, you can quickly come to a resolve after, you know, you, like, get it out, get it out, say what you need to say and, like, how do we figure and work this thing out? And I think what's most important is that you have to protect your relationship and your marriage and know that your business is an extension of your relationship. But you two are the foundation.
- [73:41]
A
No, that. I mean, it's so beautiful. Every time I see you, you look so cute and happy together.
- [73:47]
B
Like, he knows that I'm always right.
- [73:50]
A
So there you go.
- [73:51]
B
That's happy wife, happy life.
- [73:55]
A
The company that you're running today obviously, is very, very different from where you started. I think you have about 300 people in the business, a lot of people. What do you think about in terms of your leadership style and what's had to change, especially post acquisition, has that Been a steep learning curve.
- [74:11]
B
So it has been a steep learning curve. Because what I realized even with the acquisition is that not a lot of people are okay with change. But I think that's the one thing that's inevitable is change. Things are always going to change. And for me, being a leader has become more about clarity and consistency, even under pressure, and being able to show up for my team and still make decisions when things are uncertain or when things look uncertain for my team and still being able to empower them to operate in their gifts and encourage them. Also being okay as a leader, that I may. May have encouraged you, empowered you, and have taught you different skill sets and talents from working with mielle, and you may take those talents and gifts to another company and that may be a competitor, and also being okay with that. People may leave when they don't get it. And you being okay and not cracking under pressure or not allowing your emotions to distract you. Because when you build your company and you have people like, it's like a family. So you do have some type of emotional connection with these people. And unfortunately, you and take ownership of those people. So I just try to empower them while they're under my leadership with the notion of, like, I've given you the skills and tools that you need to thrive in any other environment that you go in. And not being led by emotions, but being led by facts and being able to make sound decisions, you know, when my mind is clear.
- [75:41]
A
So you've spoken a little bit about expanding the brand beyond hair care. What does that look like? And what's the future?
- [75:48]
B
Yeah, so the future of MIELLE is to be not just a haircare company, but tapping into all aspects of beauty. So from skin care to body care, being like an overall wellness brand that focuses on a holistic approach to beauty. So more exciting. Like, we have some really exciting, like, skincare body care products that I'm super excited about that we've been working on for the past, like, two years now.
- [76:13]
A
Do you still get as excited as in the beginning? Like, what is your part of the business that gets you, like, you know, keeps you up at night and makes you excited for your job?
- [76:23]
B
Yeah, so I'm like, all things marketing and, like, creative. So I'm still very excited over, like, innovation. And, you know, I love that P and G has allowed me to still continue to lead that aspect of the business.
- [76:36]
A
Do you feel like you have to keep saying to everyone, nothing has changed?
- [76:39]
B
I did at one point, but I no longer do because, you know, the thing Is is like people, people that are set in their ways that are going to misunderstand you. No matter what you say, no matter what you try to do to prove, no matter if you like, take them to the lab and see where you source ingredients, they will still say, but it wasn't like that last year. Or you miss an angry. Like, they're still going to say that. So I'm like, I'm no longer addressing it.
- [77:09]
A
That can't be your job.
- [77:11]
B
I have to use my energy and put places that really matter.
- [77:14]
A
Yeah, you do. What kind of impact do you hope your success has for other founders?
- [77:20]
B
I want the little girl in me that was hoping and wishing for someone that looked like me to just give them inspiration and to light a fire inside of them, to say, you know what you know you have a dream and you can go out there and accomplish your dreams. You can go out there and be a world changer and create something and innovate and do something magnificent that the community and the people that are assigned to your destiny is going to thank you for.
- [77:50]
A
I feel like you're no doubt doing that.
- [77:52]
B
I hope so.
- [77:53]
A
Absolutely, you are. What do you still aspire to?
- [77:56]
B
I still aspire to be disruptive and to challenge myself to tackle and enter into spaces that may be deemed impossible. And so I aspire to disrupt the fitness industry with our new brand, Win Athletics. Oh, yes.
- [78:16]
A
I love that answer. All right, I'm going to take you to some rapid fire. I'm the worst at rapid fire because as everyone knows, I'm so long winded. So we'll see how rapid they are. All right, rapid fire. Questions? What is one hair product that you never travel without?
- [78:31]
B
My rosemary mint oil.
- [78:33]
A
What's something you never feel guilty about spending money on?
- [78:36]
B
I never feel. I feel guilty about spending money on my kids.
- [78:40]
A
Are you a morning person or a night owl?
- [78:42]
B
I am definitely a morning person.
- [78:44]
A
What time are you up in the morning?
- [78:46]
B
I am up at like 6am yes.
- [78:47]
A
And early.
- [78:48]
B
Yeah.
- [78:48]
A
What is a book that changed your life?
- [78:51]
B
A book that's changed my life is honestly the Bible
- [78:56]
A
that'll change.
- [78:57]
B
Yeah. The book of Proverbs. A book of wisdom.
- [79:00]
A
Amazing. Thank you, my darling. This is heavenly. Yeah. Thank you.
- [79:03]
B
Love it.
- [79:04]
A
You're so great. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy I'm your host Emma greed executive producer Ashley McShan, Derrick Brown and me. Our executive producers from audacy. Leah Reese, Dennis Asha Sarah, Lauren Legrasso Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele and Carlos Delgado Social media by Olivia Homan, Katherine Bale Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford. My team's at the lead company and wme. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meekol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can dm me at aspire with Emma greed. Greed is spelled g r e d e that's aspire a s p I r e with Emma greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website emagreed me.