The Aspire Playbook: How Lucy Guo, a Rebel Girl in a Man’s World, Became the World’s Youngest Self-Made Female Billionaire

Summary

Podcast Summary: Aspire with Emma Grede Episode: The Aspire Playbook: How Lucy Guo, a Rebel Girl in a Man’s World, Became the World’s Youngest Self-Made Female Billionaire
Release Date: August 5, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Aspire with Emma Grede, host Emma Grede sits down with Lucy Guo, renowned as the world's youngest self-made female billionaire. Lucy shares her remarkable journey from a coding prodigy to co-founding the billion-dollar unicorn, Scale AI, and her subsequent ventures reshaping the creator economy. This episode delves deep into Lucy's entrepreneurial spirit, the challenges she faced in a male-dominated industry, and her innovative approaches to empowering creators.

---

Early Life and Background

Lucy Guo was born in the Bay Area to brilliant parents who immigrated from China. Both her parents were electrical engineers, instilling in her a strong appreciation for education and financial prudence from a young age. Lucy recounts, “My parents put a keylogger on my computer so they can monitor everything I was doing on the Internet” (04:09), highlighting the strict upbringing that paradoxically fostered her early interest in technology and coding.

---

Embarking on Entrepreneurship Early

Lucy's entrepreneurial spirit manifested early. By second grade, she was already creating bots to monetize her time on platforms like Neopets. Her knack for innovation led her to win numerous hackathons during her time at Carnegie Mellon University, where she studied computer science and human-computer interactions. As Lucy explains, “[...] I was getting sent to the principal's office for sales, like Pokémon cards and colored pencils on a playground” (06:04), illustrating her innate drive to create and market from a young age.

---

Founding Scale AI and Rapid Success

At 21, Lucy co-founded Scale AI, which quickly garnered attention and investment, leading to Meta acquiring half of the company for $14 billion in cash. Lucy reflects on the early days, stating, “The first year was very do things that don't scale. For example, with every single pilot that we were doing, we were labeling data ourselves” (26:08). Her hands-on approach and commitment to quality were pivotal in securing contracts and growing Scale AI into a powerhouse in the AI industry.

---

Challenges and Being Pushed Out

Despite Scale AI's success, tensions arose between Lucy and her co-founders over differing roadmaps and priorities. Lucy shares a candid account of being pushed out of the company she co-founded: “[...] I felt a little betrayed” (32:15). This pivotal moment was deeply challenging, yet Lucy remained resilient, emphasizing the importance of trust and compatibility in founding teams. She advises, “Just be very, very careful on who you start a company with” (32:56), underscoring the critical nature of founder relationships.

---

Launching Passes: Revolutionizing the Creator Economy

Undeterred by setbacks, Lucy launched Passes, a platform designed to empower creators to monetize their followings comprehensively. Passes offers tools for live streaming, one-on-one calls, merchandise sales, and more, facilitating creators to build sustainable businesses. Lucy highlights Passes' unique approach: “We're building a suite of tools to help you monetize your brand... we're continuing to add onto this toolbox” (40:10). This venture not only supports creators financially but also fosters generational wealth through equity opportunities.

---

Perspectives on AI and Future Trends

As an AI expert, Lucy shares her optimistic view of AI's role as a "co-pilot" in various industries. She envisions a future where AI handles mundane tasks, allowing humans to focus on complex problem-solving. Lucy states, “AI is going to be acting as our co-pilot so we can use our brains to solve the really hard problems” (79:53). She also anticipates the rise of AI agents that will transform how creators manage their careers, making the process more efficient and scalable.

---

Leadership Style and Ethical Considerations

Lucy’s leadership is characterized by hands-on involvement and a refusal to delegate key tasks. She believes in leading by example, asserting, “I believe that all leaders need to do IC work. You're not going to be able to know how well your team is doing unless you've done it yourself” (92:28). Balancing growth and ethics, Lucy prioritizes transparency and creator satisfaction, often pausing growth initiatives to address critical issues affecting her team and users.

---

Advice for Aspiring Creators and Founders

Lucy offers invaluable advice to aspiring creators and female founders. She emphasizes the importance of building a solid resume, working at reputable companies, and gaining diverse experiences before venturing out on one’s own. Additionally, she advocates for authenticity and consistent content creation, advising creators to “just churn out as many pieces as possible” (51:57) to grow their following and revenue streams effectively.

---

Personal Insights and Future Aspirations

Beyond her entrepreneurial endeavors, Lucy values personal growth and competitive spirit. She shares her pride in personal achievements, such as winning the Barry's All Stars competition, highlighting her commitment to self-improvement and resilience. Looking ahead, Lucy aspires to develop fintech tools within Passes to further support creators and is passionate about leveraging technology to combat issues like human trafficking.

---

Conclusion

Lucy Guo’s journey from a young coding enthusiast to a groundbreaking entrepreneur serves as an inspiring testament to resilience, innovation, and the power of authenticity. Her insights into the creator economy, AI, and leadership provide valuable lessons for anyone looking to build impactful businesses. This episode of Aspire with Emma Grede not only celebrates Lucy’s achievements but also offers a roadmap for aspiring founders to navigate challenges and drive meaningful success.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Lucy Guo: “You could press an arrangement of keys on your computer to get into the admin account and then just delete the keylogger” (04:19)

• Emma Grede: “I used to think I needed a full drawer of makeup and at least 20 minutes to look presentable in the morning” (01:27)

• Lucy Guo: “I never let it pierce me” (09:25)

• Lucy Guo: “Entrepreneurs are all a little crazy because you have to be a little crazy to decide, I can build a multi-billion dollar company” (23:02)

• Lucy Guo: “No, I never underestimated myself” (24:52)

• Lucy Guo: “Just be very, very careful on who you start a company with” (32:56)

---

Note: Timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and are used to reference specific moments in the conversation.

Transcript

[Lucy Guo]

Foreign.

[Emma Grede]

Meet Lucy Guo, the world's youngest self made billionaire, a coding Prodigy at 12, co founder of Scale AI at 21. And if you haven't heard of Scale AI, you will soon. Meta just acquired half the company for $14 billion in cash. Pushed out from the billion dollar unicorn she co Founded at 24, Lucy roared back with passes the platform turning the creator economy upside down. Today on Aspire, Lucy's getting real about the founder mistakes Nobody tells you about the future of creator success and exactly how to pick yourself up when life knocks you down. If you're a creator or an aspiring founder, you will not want to miss this episode.

[Lucy Guo]

Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack, slots and Solitaire anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go. Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary. VGW Group VOIP board prohibited by law 21/TNCs apply I used to think I.

[Emma Grede]

Needed a full drawer of makeup and at least 20 minutes to look presentable in the morning. But then I tried Merit and now I'm done in five minutes. Merit is a minimalist beauty brand that's made to simplify your routine. It's for people who want to feel put together without spending a ton of time or energy. Their products are clean, vegan, and so easy to use you genuinely can't mess them up even half asleep. Lately I've been reaching for Flush Balm every morning. It gives me the most natural looking flush and it blends like a dream. The Minimalist is another go to. It's part foundation, part concealer and it evens out my skin in seconds without feeling heavy and great skin serum. My skin just looks better and more hydrated every time I use it. Merit has made my mornings feel less rushed and more effortless, which I didn't really think was possible. It's time to simplify your morning. Head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. Hi, it's Emma. If you're loving these conversations with some of the most brilliant minds on the planet, make sure you never miss an episode and follow Aspire with Emma Greed on Amazon Music. It's free and easy. Just tap follow in the Amazon Music app so every new episode is ready when you are. I'm so happy you're here. Lucy. We have got so much to talk about. I have to say, you are one difficult person to do the research on. There is so little out there really about.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes, yes.

[Emma Grede]

You're like a mysterious enigma of a person. But there's one thing that I do know about you, my love, and that is that you are the world's youngest self mate. Female billionaire. Say it again. Say it again. It's insane. And I have so many questions for you.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm here for them.

[Emma Grede]

So many. But I feel like we kind of have to go back a little bit so that I can understand. First of all, like, how did you get here and where did you come from? So take me back to you. Where were you?

[Lucy Guo]

So I was born in a bay area. I came from my two brilliant parents. They immigrated from China to get here. They're both electrical engineers. So shout out to them for their IQ points. And it started off really young because they had immigrated. Mindset of newcomers, essentially. And they were extremely frugal. They emphasized education, et cetera. And I learned to really value education and money early on.

[Emma Grede]

Do you have siblings?

[Lucy Guo]

I have a little brother.

[Emma Grede]

What about your parents? Are you close to them?

[Lucy Guo]

I talk to them, I would say at least a few times a week now, which is nice.

[Emma Grede]

So nice.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, it's definitely gotten a lot. Like, I've been able to get closer to them after moving on from college, et cetera, and really understanding why they were so strict as parents.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. Getting through those teenage years. Were they super strict with you?

[Lucy Guo]

They were absolutely tiger parents.

[Emma Grede]

I love that. What did that look like for you as a kid?

[Lucy Guo]

Let's see. My parents put a keylogger on my computer so they can monitor everything I was doing on the Internet. That's actually probably like how I kind of got into computers where I was like, I had to figure out how to get this keylogger off.

[Emma Grede]

No. Did you figure it out?

[Lucy Guo]

You could press arrangement of keys on your computer to get into the admin account and then just delete the keylogger.

[Emma Grede]

And you figured this out at what age exactly?

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, this one I probably figured out. I want to say maybe third grade.

[Emma Grede]

Wow, that's something. All right, so you were destined for this life. What did you study at school?

[Lucy Guo]

I studied computer science and human computer interactions.

[Emma Grede]

And where did you go to school?

[Lucy Guo]

Carnegie Mellon.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, so you were like, immediately, you're like, computer science, that's my jam. You knew that about yourself.

[Lucy Guo]

I actually didn't, which is funny. Because I had been coding for so long at this point.

[Emma Grede]

But how'd you get into coding? Tell me that. I get it. Because if you grow up in the Bay Area, like, I guess there's a proximity thing of, like, a lot of people being around you. But, you know, how do you even start coding? As a young woman, it was completely.

[Lucy Guo]

Not from outside influence. Essentially, my parents were taking away my cold, hard earned cash. I was like, man, like, I need to figure out how to, like, make it so that they can't just steal my cash in my hiding places. I was literally putting it in Harry Potter books and it would disappear. And I'm like, how are you finding this? So one day I discover PayPal. I was like, okay, amazing. I can have money on PayPal. So I literally go to Home Depot, I get a Visa, debit card, I open up a PayPal account, and then voila. And I'm already playing neopets at this point. And I'm, you know, on these online forums and I see this entire, like, black market economy where people are able to buy and sell Neopoints, neopets, et cetera. And that's when I start diving deeper and learning. You can create bots to essentially get these items by cheating.

[Emma Grede]

Wait a minute. You were creating bots at what age?

[Lucy Guo]

I was like, in second grade. Second grade.

[Emma Grede]

Third grade. What are you talking about? No way.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

So you were really entrepreneurial from the very beginning?

[Lucy Guo]

I think so, yeah. I was getting sent to the principal's office for sales, like Pokemon cards and colored pencils on a playground. I think I got sent in too, because I was like, what are we doing in school? Why are we learning the Alphabet? Like, we are smarter than this. I just love that.

[Emma Grede]

All right, so super entrepreneurial kid. You're trying to figure out ways to make money. You end up studying computer science. So what was your first foray into entrepreneurialism?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I would say it was probably the Thiel Fellowship. So I was going to a lot of hackathons, which are these, like, 24 to 48 hour coding competitions.

[Emma Grede]

I have to slow down. For me, a hackathon. What are we. What are we doing? What is a hackathon?

[Lucy Guo]

So they're 24 to 48 hour coding competitions. A lot of universities hosted them. There'd be different prizes for, like, best use of, like, AWS or best use of Firebase, for example. And then I was just going and competing and making apps. It's actually where I started learning how to really do, like, iOS engineering before it got popular. And I figured out pretty early on the easiest way to win a hackathon was just create an iOS app and make it pretty. So I was doing this for like every hackathon I was going to, and I just.

[Emma Grede]

And were you winning?

[Lucy Guo]

I was winning. I don't.

[Emma Grede]

What were you winning? Like, what do you win?

[Lucy Guo]

You win cash? I won a lot of iPads. I had like a 6 iPad collection at some point in time. It was pretty great, honestly. And then the Teal Fellowship took notice that I was winning these hackathons and.

[Emma Grede]

They'Re like, for those of us who don't know. What's the Thiel Fellowship?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So Thiel Fellowship was started by Peter Thiel to essentially make a point that you don't need college to be successful. So he was giving 20 kids under 20 years old $100,000.

[Emma Grede]

And again, for those that don't know, Peter Thiel, the legendary, legendary investor. And so he has a fellowship. And essentially the fellowship is to prove that you don't need to go to college to be successful.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes. So he was investing or like giving grants out to all sorts of different kids, from research scientists to entrepreneurs. I guess his team took notice of me winning all these hackathons. So they're like, hey, Lucy, like, you should apply to the Thiel Fellowship. And I didn't really have an idea, so I just used the hackathon project that I had made like the week before and then submitted it and ended up getting it. And then I was suddenly surrounded by a bunch of other like minded people who had dropped out to really create something big. One person in my class actually was the founder of Ethereum. So I know that was like, probably my biggest financial mistake of my life.

[Emma Grede]

You had the opportunity to invest.

[Lucy Guo]

He literally was on the couch telling everyone, like, oh, you should join Ethereum's presale. It's like 30 cents a coin. And I was just like, who are you? Some of the fellows actually put in money and I heard one of them, like, bought an island or something.

[Emma Grede]

I can imagine. Yeah.

[Lucy Guo]

No, I didn't get.

[Emma Grede]

How did you feel amongst that group of people? For you, was that immediately a time when you felt, like, uncomfortable? These are my people. Did you feel like a fish out of water? Because I'm imagining you were one of very few women. Or am I getting that wrong?

[Lucy Guo]

You are not wrong. I was one of very few women. Overall, I would say it was a mix. Like, I felt accepted by some people and there was definitely a few fellows who told me, like, oh, you only got the fellowship because you were a woman. You only got this internship because you were a woman. They probably gave you easier questions, et cetera. And that was extremely frustrating. Yeah. I was like, I'm not. You went to a worst college for computer science. It's not my fault you didn't go to the number one school in the country.

[Emma Grede]

Did it. Did it ever get to you? Did you ever let that, like, pierce your. You know, your mind? Did you ever think, maybe it is because I'm a girl, but I'm here.

[Lucy Guo]

I never let it pierce me. And I think this is because, like I said, I did go to, like, the best. I think I'm biased. I do think that, like, cmu, probably, like cmu, mit, Berkeley are, like, just tied for third in computer science. I think it just frustrated me because I understood very early on that I would need to fight harder to get the same treatment as my peers.

[Emma Grede]

Absolutely.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And here we are.

[Lucy Guo]

And here we are.

[Emma Grede]

And here we are. Yeah. We could say so many things to them, but I'll be polite for the start of this conversation. So I heard that you've had, like, a tough time with your parents, or you had a tough time when you initially said that you wanted to go and become an entrepreneur. I think that you didn't speak for a while. Can you tell me about that?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. I mean, I think that they immigrated from China to give their kids a better future. Right. So they really gave up everything. They gave up their family. They entered a new country, had no friends, and for me to drop out of college was a sign of disrespect. It was kind of just saying, like, I don't care about the sacrifices that you made to give me a better life. So they were obviously extremely upset, and they just didn't talk to me for a while. They were like, okay, fine. You think you make it like you're on your own. Like, you get your own health insurance, you get your own phone, you get, like, X, Y and Z on your own. And I was like, well, like, crap. But it actually turns out that for a time period, my dad was sending me a bunch of emails that all look the same. Just going like, why would you do this? You're not thinking, make smarter decisions. Don't be dumb. And they just all look the same. So I had, I don't know, 100 emails in my spam inbox that I didn't see for a while.

[Emma Grede]

So maybe he was trying to communicate with you in his own loving way. Exactly. I understand that. So talk me through how you started your first business, because you're obviously like a bit of a wonder kid. You have this like thing happening, you win the fellowship, and how do you even start to think about starting your first company?

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, it was kind of expected after the winning the fellowship, right? So the first company was a complete failure, but it actually came out of a hackathon idea where at a hackathon we built this app called Namit, which was essentially like Doordash before Doordash existed. I looked it up and we actually created this app before Doordash was founded.

[Emma Grede]

So that was kind of cool to see.

[Lucy Guo]

It was essentially like a two sided, like, marketplace where, you know, restaurants, like you could order from restaurants and order a food item and then it would get delivered to you by a courier. So that was the idea of it. By the time the fellowship had started, I believe Doordash may have existed or Uber eats or something similar. So I was like, okay, how do we make this unique? Right?

[Emma Grede]

Wow.

[Lucy Guo]

And the idea was that people would be able to cook and then sell the food they cook to other people. Started off at college campuses, so went straight to Carnegie Mellon because it's just high density, right? Like a kid could deliver like 100 meals in an hour if they wanted to. Because you just go door to dorm. It did pretty well. We had people making $100 an hour, like selling in like food to students.

[Emma Grede]

And you're just a student at this point?

[Lucy Guo]

No, I had dropped out. I was already.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, so you'd already dropped out. And then what happened with that business?

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, it was never a business. It was just a hackathon project.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, it was just a project. Okay, so it was just a project.

[Lucy Guo]

So then the business was where we did a little twist where people were cooking themselves and selling it to them.

[Emma Grede]

Got it. I see. And what happened with that company?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, so it turns out there's just a lot of legal issues with that from like, you know, food poisoning. So the way to legally do this was to have a centralized kitchen. But then that defeated the point of being able to cook in your own kitchen. The laws were changed. I'm not exactly sure what the exact laws are nowadays, but over Covid they changed the laws so you could make money cooking in your own house for like a certain amount of people.

[Emma Grede]

And what role were you playing? Like, at this point, when you're starting to think about new ideas, like, you're the coder, you're the a tech person, like, what are you doing?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say I did some of the coding and all the design.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, really?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Okay, so interesting. And is that kind of where you felt most comfortable or it's just like, what you knew at the time?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say it's where I felt most comfortable because I always think that the best co founder pairs are an engineer and a designer. And then I would always make sure to pair myself up with an engineer that was better than me. And then I would just take on the role of doing some of the easier engineering work, and then I'm doing all the product design work.

[Emma Grede]

Got it. So how did you know that that company was ultimately going to fail?

[Lucy Guo]

Well, when we realized that people were going to get food poisoning, slash, someone told us, you know, what you're doing is illegal. You were like, okay, I did some research. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, this is actually illegal. And then I think someone afterwards popped up and did the same thing and it got shut down because it just, like, they thought that they could be like, Uber, you know, and just ask for forgiveness later. And it just didn't happen.

[Emma Grede]

Did it feel like a failure? Like, how did you take that first failure?

[Lucy Guo]

I didn't really. I was like, okay, cool. Like, this didn't work out. Let me do some more learning. Because I felt like I could still learn a lot more about just, like, how to create products and launch products and actually, like, see larger results. So I decided to go work at a company, and I think, like, afterwards I went to Quora and Snap, where I believe I learned a lot there.

[Emma Grede]

So you took, like, a more traditional job?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

How long do you work in those places?

[Lucy Guo]

I want to say a total of maybe a year and a half. Yeah. And then I got the itch to build something again.

[Emma Grede]

It's so interesting that you took that year and a half. Were you plotting and planning for your next startup, or was it really for you about, you know, a. Did you need the money? Like, did you need to. Did you feel like you needed to, like, land somewhere and learn something? Like, what was the impetus to go. To go into a more traditional job?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say it was to, like. I knew I wanted to build another startup eventually, but I felt like I could do more learning, especially. Cause I felt. Felt like I went into the first one without a lot of knowledge. Right. Like, all I had was school and then I had these hackathons, but I didn't really, like, actually work on a product before or, like a startup product. I guess I, like, technically worked on products, but I was like, okay, like, I want to join, like, A proper startup that's fast growing and see what it looks like. So that's when I decided, okay, like, let's learn a little bit more before I build my next company.

[Emma Grede]

Were they good experiences?

[Lucy Guo]

They were great experiences, yeah. I think I learned a lot. Especially because, like, Quora and Snap are so different culturally that I took parts. I liked about both of those cultures and then put it into my own companies.

[Emma Grede]

I love that. All right, so talk to me. First real company. What happens?

[Lucy Guo]

First real company. Oh, man, it's a journey. It actually happened entirely by accident. We worked like two pivots before we landed on scale AI. We were building ClassPass for clubbing. Terrible idea.

[Emma Grede]

And then ClassPass for clubbing. That feels very you. If I know anything about you.

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, my God. Was just like, in my head, I was in la, I was working at Snap, so I was the cooling to.

[Emma Grede]

Get into all the clubs.

[Lucy Guo]

I was more so just like, fascinated by club culture, where I was like, wow, okay, these promoters are just bringing girls into clubs for free. But there's a giant line outside. What if we could get a guy, guys and girls to pay memberships and then we just connect them to these promoters that already are getting paid and bringing people in for support.

[Emma Grede]

Sounds like a good idea too.

[Lucy Guo]

Terrible idea. Anyhow, long story short, I mean, I think the core problem really is, I mean, outside the fact there's not enough money in the industry, like, even the largest clubbing apps just don't make that much money. The people that, like, really want to go to a club that badly already know the promoters totally, like, it's not that good.

[Emma Grede]

They are hard to find out. That's so true. They'll figure it out.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. And the promoters find them because they make money from bringing people into the club.

[Emma Grede]

But why do you say it was a pivot? Because you took the same, you took the same business and just like, reshuffled it.

[Lucy Guo]

No, we were just like, we need to work on something else. So I was like, let's work.

[Emma Grede]

But same team.

[Lucy Guo]

Same team, yes. And then ended up building a healthcare app called Ava. And idea was like, we have find you the best doctor for specific medical procedures you needed. So let's say you needed root canal, a jaw surgery, et cetera. We would find you, like, the best doctor for that. Also bad idea, because young people generally don't have medical problems, so they're not going to need to use this app. Older people don't know how to use technology and there's going to be a retention issue because when you need these things done. Like, they're very, like, one and done right. It's not recurring. And no one's going to be using an app for something that's not recurring. Like, what might have been better is, like, Botox, but that wasn't a thing back in the day.

[Emma Grede]

Now, that could have worked. But that's really interesting to me because you're kind of like, rinsing through, like, okay, here are the things that didn't work, and these are the reasons. But how long did it take you to actually discover and to make those pivots? Like, were you in these?

[Lucy Guo]

Like, a week?

[Emma Grede]

One to two weeks?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm very quick with that where I think that, like, when you launch an MVP and there's just no traction, you just pivot. Like, there's no demand in market.

[Emma Grede]

Amazing. So there's no ego there. Nothing of, like, you being like, I'm going to make this work, because these are not ideas that you're particularly passionate about.

[Lucy Guo]

You.

[Emma Grede]

It was like a means to an end.

[Lucy Guo]

Yep, exactly. Okay, so then afterwards, okay, like, we wish there were something where if you click the button to book an appointment, someone called Doctors for us and we're living with our YC roommates, and then Panache, who's one of our YC Movermates, is like, oh, you mean like an API for humans? And at this point, I had already built a lot of viral apps and on Product Hunt, and I realized that that was extremely controversial because you're dehumanizing humans by saying, like, oh, like, we'll just make them into an API. So in my head, I was like.

[Emma Grede]

So, okay, you're gonna have to explain to me what is an API.

[Lucy Guo]

So the way an API works is you can, like, send in a request and then you get like, a callback back. What's an example? So, like, for scale specifically, someone can send a request in, like, label this image and label all the cars on this image. And then we would send back the image that's labeled with all the cars.

[Emma Grede]

Immediately that triggers to you. You're like, okay, that's not necessarily such a great thing.

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, I think that immediately it sounds dehumanizing to me because it's like, oh, we're just going to code humans, essentially. And I thought that that was a controversial tagline. And I was like, I think it will go viral. Let's build out the landing page, and let's build out an mvp. So we built out this super rudimentary MVP API where essentially I was Sending over the callbacks manually. So whenever we got an API request, I would get a Twilio call, which is also another API that's like, hey, wake up and do this task. And then I would literally just, like, send it back myself. So that was funny. And then, you know, just that picked up the attention of investors, because I was right. It did hit the top of Product Hunt, which is this list of, like, new products that are launched per day. At that point in time, it was very popular. Like, VCs were perusing the site daily, trying to find new companies to invest in. So when I hit the top of Product Hunt, we had, like, every single VC reach out. And at the same time, we were, you know, like, mass emailing every single YC company. Like, oh, we have this API for humans. Is there anything you would want a human to do for you? And Cruz ends up being one of our first customers. And that's kind of how, like, scale blows up.

[Emma Grede]

So talk to me about the beginning of scale. This is you and a couple of partners at the time.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So it started off with me and Alex Wang.

[Emma Grede]

Yep.

[Lucy Guo]

And then immediately after we got our term sheet, I call up two friends from college, Kevin and Zeeshuan, and they just were like, yeah, like, we'd be down to work with you. Z was my CS Little from college, and then Kevin was my roommate, but also my ta. So I knew they were, like, very good. Cause I had, like, like, known them for a long time. And, like, they were the top students at our college. So they come on and join. And then I also call up another teal fellow, actually. His name's Jared. I actually invested in his company. He's great. Yeah, he was down too. So that was just, like, all of us working.

[Emma Grede]

That's so crazy. All right, so you've already got a term sheet, so you'd raised a little bit of money right from the beginning. Oh.

[Lucy Guo]

So I guess, like, we had YC money, and then we accepted $100,000 of angel money, and then we got a term sheet for Series A, like, right at the very beginning.

[Emma Grede]

So talk to. Okay, this is the bit that's, like, crazy, because I feel like for the large majority of us, we've all been talking about AI for, like, not that long. But when you talk about founding scale, this is, like, how long ago this was in 2016. 2016. So let me just think about me in 2016. I am, like, just starting good American thinking about, like, denim with, you know, reinforced belt loops. And you're out here already starting an AI. I just want to contextualize it for people because I just don't know that that was. It certainly wasn't the conversation outside of the Bay Area then, like, that. It was like the preserve of very, very few in a very small community. But you were in it. Like, you were right there at the beginning.

[Lucy Guo]

Honestly, a lot of people, like, there's a lot of stories out there. I think it was entirely luck there because what had happened was we were going to take over the BPO industry and we were like, okay, we're gonna take over Mechanical Turk. We thought we were going to dominate, like, like phone calls, where we're like, okay, companies spend tons of money on phone calls. We're going to be better at it. And then we realized very quickly that it's hard to quality control with phone calls. And when cruise comes along with the self driving car market, we realize we have structured data. And someone outside of us actually points out and they're like, oh, you have structured data. You can actually use AI on this to reduce the amount of humans eventually. And then it like clicks and they're like, oh, my God, we have structured data. We should pivot into an AI code. So that's when it goes from like scale API to scale AI.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, my goodness. Did you know that you were onto something really big?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say with the amount of money being poured in and the. Yeah, I would, I would say yes. I would also though, say that, like, we were actually really worried, like, during fundraising. We're like, oh, we can't put like a real market cap here because Mechanical Turk wasn't actually that large of a market from the research we had done. So we're like, oh, if we put that, like, Mechanical Turk's market cap is only like 1B, no one's going to invest. So we just completely agree. Market cap. Yeah. Question. And everyone just assumed it was a large market cap. It was wonderful because, like, I guess, like, so in the very beginning, we didn't really know how big it could be because, yeah, like, we literally couldn't find a market cap.

[Emma Grede]

Did that phase you at all, like, the level of, like, unknown that was there? Were you like, oh, my goodness, I don't know what I'm doing. I've never raised money before. Like, because it feels like everything happened to you, like, super quickly. Like, one minute you're in a hackathon, the next minute you're like, trying to figure out a valuation for a company that's like north of a billion. Like, where does the. Where I'M trying to understand, like, as Lucy, this girl that is doing these things, and you're one of very, very few women, like, where does that come from in you that you felt, yes, I can do this. I'm gonna go out and raise this money and everything's fine.

[Lucy Guo]

I think that entrepreneurs are all a little crazy because you have to be a little crazy to decide, I can build a multi billion dollar company, so I'm gonna take VC money and just do it. I think I. And I was so surrounded by people that had done it before that it wasn't, like an impossible thing for me. Everyone I was surrounded by had done it. So it was just like, well, they can do it, why can't I? Yeah, yeah.

[Emma Grede]

No, it's really interesting because I think there is something about that magical community.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

You know, being an outsider, you feel that, like, you feel it in California. You feel it, like, the minute you get to San Francisco. And it doesn't matter which table you're at, like, who you're meeting, like, what it is.

[Lucy Guo]

It's like.

[Emma Grede]

Like there is somebody there that's done something extraordinary probably at a very, very young age. And so I guess it just gives you the feeling that you can.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I mean, I think they say that you're like, you know, the average of the five people you're hanging around with most. And when those five people have all started unicorn companies, like, it almost feels like you're failing because you're not doing it.

[Emma Grede]

Exactly.

[Lucy Guo]

You're like, where's my billion dollar company?

[Emma Grede]

Exactly. I just find it, like, unbelievable. So you never underestimated yourself?

[Lucy Guo]

No, I never did. I mean, like, I would say I was always frustrated because I felt like I was being underestimated being a woman, but I never really underestimated myself.

[Emma Grede]

What were your experiences in those early days that made you feel underestimated?

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, man. I mean, everything. Like, by the time I had made it to scale, I was actually very confident. But I would say, like, from the TL fellowship, everyone's saying all this stuff. I had some guy spreading a rumor how I slept with them, like, every employee at Facebook. And I was just like. Like, I had only kissed a person at this point in time. So I was just like, you're like, not me. I was like, what is going on? And then at this point in time, like, I was so closeted, but, like, rumors of my bisexuality because I was, like, seeing a girl during that period of time, it was, like, circling around the Bay Area. And, like, some people were just, like, dude, she's, she's gay. Like, what are you talking about?

[Emma Grede]

Like, what are you talking about?

[Lucy Guo]

It was frustrating because people were like trying to make, make stuff up.

[Emma Grede]

So talk me through a little bit of that journey. So Scale AI, you started, you raised this money. How much did you raise out the gate?

[Lucy Guo]

We raised 4.5 for our Series A.

[Emma Grede]

4.5 million for your Series A. And at this point there's just like a real handful of you.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Do you remember that time, that early time at Scale AI, Tell me what that first year looks like for you guys.

[Lucy Guo]

I would say the first year was very do things that don't scale. So for example, with every single pilot that we were doing, we were labeling it data ourselves, which was absolutely wild. I would get really insulted when people come back and be like, oh, the data was like bad quality, so we're not going to use you guys. And I'm like, I label the data. I know the data is right because it was like categorizing things. It's like, okay, cool, like here is an image of Obama. Is this political? Is this like a meme? Is this what? And like obviously like, you know, I was checking the right boxes because it.

[Emma Grede]

Was your job, that's what you did.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. And that was how we were winning contracts. Because they like, you know, they want to make sure the quality of the data is good enough before they like trust you with the rest of their data. It was very, very manual. Do things that don't scale. I remember I was sleeping in the office. I was, you know, building up the scalar team. So the team in the Philippines that was labeling things and just training them and like being online 247 because they were working completely different hours sometimes as well. And I would just be in the office till like late where I was like, I don't really feel like going home. Like, I just am going to, I'll just stay here.

[Emma Grede]

Exactly what motivated you at point that, that point, did you have a point.

[Lucy Guo]

To prove in general? I don't like losing people money. If I take something from someone, I want to give back 10x right. So at that point in time I was just like, okay. Like I would say yes. I had to prove to my parents, I wanted to prove my parents wrong and that like I could build a company and I had taken money from people. And when you take money from people, it's just like, you got to, you.

[Emma Grede]

Gotta win, you gotta win. You don't, you don't even have a choice.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

So talk to me about when it starts to go a little bit sideways because obviously you were kind of sidelined out of this company that you essentially co founded. I'd love to understand what happened and how you got pushed out.

[Lucy Guo]

I'll say what I can legally say, I guess.

[Emma Grede]

Thank you. Thank you, my love.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So the tension started arising, I would say, when we started having very large differences in the roadmap. I really wanted to focus on the scalar side of things because I was the one interacting with the people in the Philippines daily and I kind of them like they had a, like they have a special place in my part and they were just like, like there's not enough tasks for us to do. Like we need to make a living, we're not getting paid on time. Why are you under counting our hours? Like I worked four hours. Why is it only saying that we work two hours? Stuff like that was happening and it was just like not a priority to fix because the priority was sales, where it was like if a company was like, I want to label, like let's say lidar data, right? Like we would shift entire roadmap to building our lidar labeling tool. And this just kept happening where we would shift the roadmap constant to win these contracts. And we weren't focused on making sure that scalers are getting paid on time, that they were getting paid the right amount, et cetera.

[Emma Grede]

And so you have essentially like a difference of opinion on the way forward with your business partner.

[Lucy Guo]

And then it just became like very. There was a lot of friction because we were constantly arguing where I was like, you're not getting enough contracts so the scalars don't have enough work. And he's like, well maybe you should make the scalers more efficient. And I'm like, well it's really hard to keep them on and not want to take a full time job when they only have like 10 minutes of work.

[Emma Grede]

Did you, did you ever realize, were you like, okay, this situation is untenable, like something's got to give here.

[Lucy Guo]

There was a time when I realized that and that was when I had reached out to actually Jared, who I had mentioned earlier, who was an early employee or contractor at Scale, my teal fellow friend slash actually my old co.

[Emma Grede]

Founder of namit Slashes in your life.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, lots of. Yeah. So Jared, I reached out to him and I was like, hey, actually I want to leave. Like I want to build a company with you. Let's just like figure out the timing of when I'm going to leave.

[Emma Grede]

I'm more interested in emotionally, what it means. Because I think that we talk a lot about business success and you have been unbelievably successful and there's so many great things to talk about, but just understanding how and what failure does to someone. Right. Because it's very difficult to have a business with that much promise and essentially have to leave it. And so tell me more about like not necessarily what happened, but how you felt and how did it transpire because you end up out of the company that you founded.

[Lucy Guo]

I just kept on getting frustrated by the day. And every single day that I was there, I was looking more for, I was looking very optimistically, like, I was very excited to start this company with this new person. So when it finally happened, quite literally the next day, I called him up and I'm like, okay, cool, let's build a company together. And then he quits his job. And I feel bad I had to get him his job back. Cause then I was like, I'm tired. I need to like go on a sabbatical.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, you're like, I might need a break after this.

[Lucy Guo]

I helped them renegotiate like a higher offer on him when he like.

[Emma Grede]

And what about your own renegotiation? Were you worried? Were you covered? Were you like, okay, I'll be fine if I leave this company. Because obviously scale is what has made you the youngest female self made billionaire.

[Lucy Guo]

I always think about it as like, you know, like when you're an early angel investor, you literally just put in a check, you do nothing. And then if the company blows up, you make a lot of money. Yay. I felt like, okay, like I invested my time and my resources into this company. I gave it everything that I could emotionally give it. And diversification is great. That was literally my mentality where I was like, diversification.

[Emma Grede]

I mean that's just like so emotionally mature. I would have wanted to murder someone like, well, just because like understanding the how high is high, you're a huge part of like, you know, what's happening in that space. You could see the Runway. Was there no part of you that was like bitter?

[Lucy Guo]

I think there's a specific. Someone who told me, told my co founder that I thought he should get fired. And I, I would think I was bitter about like who I thought told him that. Cause I was like, I thought there was like a certain level of trust. But I also did look back on my text messages and I had told someone like, hey, I'm going to tell this person how I feel. An employee had asked me to go to somebody and tell them yes. And then I was like, you know what? Like, I will, but I think I'm going to like, it's gonna get back. So I guess, like, deep down I didn't know, but like, I guess I still did it. Cause I didn't really, like, I wasn' I was probably like 50, 50. So when it did get back, or it felt like it got back, I never, like, you know, received confirmation. It was just like a series of events happening.

[Emma Grede]

Did you feel betrayed?

[Lucy Guo]

I felt a little betrayed, yeah. So I would say, like, the most I felt was like, betrayal. But then at this point, I was already so frustrated and I was like, okay, cool. Like, I'm excited to diversify and like, work on something I'm passionate about.

[Emma Grede]

Good for you. I mean, it's pretty amazing. What do you think this experience taught you about power, about equity, about protecting yourself as a founder? Like, what did you learn?

[Lucy Guo]

I think the main thing I learned is that you really do need to find someone that you get along with in all aspects. And if not, it is better to be a solo founder. I truly believe that that like whole. Oh, like solo founders do worse is not true. To find like an equal ish partner, you can hire someone and just give them enough meaningful equity that they are basically your co founder.

[Emma Grede]

Totally. No, I couldn't agree with you more. Do you think the situation would have gone down differently had you been a man?

[Lucy Guo]

I'm actually not too sure. Like, potentially, yes, potentially, yes. But it was just, it was so much friction on just like, difference in roadmaps. I think the situation would have been different if, like, I were CEO, he were cto. Because at the end of the day, even if you are 50, 50 partners, a CEO does command the respect of, like, your board. And I have learned this as an investor where I'm like, okay, if, like, I could love the co founder, like, I could love the coo, cto, but if the CEO wants them out, I will support the CEO.

[Emma Grede]

Yes, that's it. That's just how exactly. That's how it breaks down. What do you think that you learned that you would want other female founders or other founders just more generally to know, given your experience, I would say.

[Lucy Guo]

Just be very, very careful on who you start a company with. They could be so brilliant. But if there's not that trust factor there. And I think trust is built through working with someone previously along with just years of time where you get to know, are you guys going to get along and be able to talk through arguments or Will you guys just argue all the time? There's no solution? And then I would say just speak up more. Like, stand your ground. I think that a lot of female founders can be timid sometimes, right? I definitely was timid during, like, my roles, at least at companies where, like, I would speak up. But, like, when I'm speaking up and like, eight dudes are like, get back down. I actually do get. I did get back down and like, I shouldn't have. I think it's easier said than done.

[Emma Grede]

It's so much easier said than done. And I also think so much of that comes with age, wisdom, experience. It's like you're in like this incredibly male dominated space where seemingly lots of people know more than you, and also, like, you're making it up as you go along. It's not that there was a big blueprint there for what you guys were doing. And so, I don't know, I feel like you can be forgiven for some missteps. But, you know what's so impressive about you, Lucy, is What are you, 28?

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, I'm 20 now.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, stop it. Wait a minute.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm gonna need.

[Emma Grede]

She's aging. What are you, like, 30? Okay. But I think what's so impressive about you at 30 years old is that you keep getting back up. Like, it's so unbelievable that you've had, like, you've had the career of a 65 year old, you know, like, in such a short space of time. So explain to me how past these works for those that don't know, because I know that so many creators are out there and people at different levels, like, is there a barrier to entry? Like, give us the. Give us the full spiel. I want to know everything about passes. I want to know how you get in, how it works. Like, who is it for the full. Give me everything.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, definitely. I would say passes is for creators that either already have a fan base or think they can build up a fan base.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And does that, like, when you say a fan base, is that 10,000 followers? Is it 100,000 followers? Is there a barrier to entry?

[Lucy Guo]

So we typically look for 100,000 followers across platforms. We do make exceptions, for example, like psychics. I think that psychics really generate a lot of business from word of mouth.

[Emma Grede]

So even if that's not the least, that I did not expect you to say, I had to. Like, so that's just a place that you're like, wait a minute. Psychics are amazing.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I love psychics. That's like the funny I'm so logical. But like, I have.

[Emma Grede]

And then she's like, but psychics.

[Lucy Guo]

Psychics. But it's right, like I'm in la, I have a lot of friends that.

[Emma Grede]

Are in the city. I got it. Like, listen, I get it.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes. So like, I think like, for example, with psychics, the barrier of entry, like we would accept someone with like less followers because as long as they bring in like three customers and those customers have a great time and you know, we push traffic to their page, they're going to like have a snowball of referrals.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Lucy Guo]

Like there's one psychic we put on that quite literally can't get an appointment for two months now versus before. I would be able to call her up and she'd be able like give me an appointment.

[Emma Grede]

Like, and how much money is somebody like that making?

[Lucy Guo]

She's making like a few thousand a month. Us. Yeah. It's very cool to see.

[Emma Grede]

Marketing takes time unless you have the right tools. Constant Contact gives small businesses the power to create, manage and track campaigns in one place so you can focus on results, not the process. With their award winning platform, you can build impactful email, text, social media event and landing page campaign. No marketing background required. Their AI content generator and customizable templates make it easy to get started and stay on brand. Real time analytics and automated sends help campaigns perform efficiently, while tools built to drive sales help move the bottom line. Pricing is straightforward based on the number of contacts you have, no hidden fees. Plus with a 97% deliverability rate and included phone support, you're set up for success from day one. No wonder over 500,000 small businesses rely on Const contact to stay top of mind and ahead of the curve. Get a free 30 day trial when you go to constant contact dot com. Try constant contact. Free for 30 days at constant contact dot com constant contact dot com. Have you heard about Macy's 10 Days of Glam? It's the perfect excuse to stock up or try something new. Because they're offering 50% off daily beauty deals plus a surprise offer every single day. I mean, who doesn't love a little mystery in their shopping? Shopping. I've been eyeing products from some of my favorite brands. Shiseido, Clinique, Estee Lauder, Mac and Lancome. And this event makes it so easy to finally click and add to cart. It's like having your very own glam squad, but at half the price. And here's the best part. Not only do you get free shipping, but you also get a free gift with your purchase while supplies last, of course. So don't wait. Macy's 10 Days of Glam runs from August 8th through August 17th. Shop now at macy's.com or in store. I want to understand like how the platform works. So let's just say I'm a creator. I have 180,000 followers on Instagram and I want to monetize my following. I don't have a brand, I come to Passes and then what happens?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, so passes is focused on depth versus breath. So you would just sign up for passes, apply to be a creator, we would approve you and then we have all sorts of monetization features for you to make money off of, from live streaming to one on one calls. So for example, you could charge $100aminute if you wanted to to give advice on like how you build skims. And then we have ideas, girl. Yeah, we have merchandise. So you can create merchandise. You don't have to keep inventory and you can sell it or you can keep inventory similar to Etsy and sell it on our platform and we even have ticketing. So if you wanted to create like exclusive events for your fans, so you're.

[Emma Grede]

Basically creating almost like a back end infrastructure for a talent or a creator to have a whole business. They could create a tour, they could have the merchandise, they can sell tickets to whatever they want to. You could have a one to one phone call, like whatever it might be. You guys are essentially facilitating that. And then what, taking a piece of whatever they make?

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. So we've built a suite of tools and we're continuing to add onto this toolbox to help you monetize your brand. And eventually we're going to be building in fintech tools to help you manage your money as well and like grow that money.

[Emma Grede]

And how are you doing it differently?

[Lucy Guo]

I think how I'm doing it differently is taking a very tech angle and a 360 approach to it. I do think that in general, and this is what I've learned in scale, the best tech wins. At the end of the day, I think tech driven culture beats sales driven culture.

[Emma Grede]

Oh, I love that you think a tech driven culture beats a sales driven.

[Lucy Guo]

Culture, especially when it comes to tech platforms. Although I could use a pointer from you for the sales driven culture.

[Emma Grede]

Listen, you don't need anything from me. I'm investing in you. I mean like straight away, someone I was like, do you want to invest in Lucy from Passes? I was like, sign me up. How much money will she let me put in? That was my only Question. I was like, what does it take? Like, just get me closer to this girl.

[Lucy Guo]

So, like, from day one, I was like, I need to hire the best engineers, right? So, like, my CTO is a competitive programmer. He's incredible. MIT dropout. All our engineers are really incredible. So that's great to see. And I think from A just like 360 angle, I had become friends with a lot of creators. And I really do believe creators are like the new entrepreneurs. The interesting about them is from their brand, they don't have the typical customer acquisition costs that, like, I would have. I were like, I want to start a hair brand.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Lucy Guo]

It would just flop. Right. And I'm sure you've seen some of that with your brand. So much so I was like, cool. Like, they could literally sell anything, their fans from like, content to live streams. So one on one calls their merchandise. I think there's an opportunity to like, essentially create unicorn creators with passes. We've already created creators that are making millions of dollars a year. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

What was the insight for you that led to passes? Because I think everybody's been talking about the creator economy for so long, and there's going to be more and more creative billionaires. But what was it that for you was like, I have to do this?

[Lucy Guo]

I think over Covid, a lot of things happened. I became friends with creators who were getting brand deals and I was telling them, like, hey, you guys should be receiving some equity into these brands. Like, you know, take less cash, get equity. I was frustrated by the amount of managers that were telling them to take the cash and not the equity.

[Emma Grede]

And then I wonder why that happened.

[Lucy Guo]

I know. I wonder why.

[Emma Grede]

I wonder if a manager can commission equity.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, exactly. They can't commission equity. So that was actually their original idea I was thinking about working on. But then I very quickly realized that creators won't listen to you until you make them money. So that was like, okay, how can we make creators money? I was looking at creator celebrities. I create brands. So, you know, Kylie Jenner with her lipstick, Kendall Jenner with 818, Jake Paul with Better, Logan Paul with Prime.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Lucy Guo]

Et cetera. And I was looking at friends on like, Buy me a Coffee, Patreon, et cetera. And I was like, these platforms don't have have enough features for creators to monetize. And different creators monetize in different ways. Like, some creators are gonna monetize off of live streaming, which, like Patreon doesn't even have. Others monetize off of phone calls, which is actually me to Be honest. Like, I have people offering me $100aminute to get advice on like fundraising, which I don't take because I like giving that stuff for free. But.

[Emma Grede]

But you could.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, but I could.

[Emma Grede]

You created the platform for it to happen.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes, and then I did throw up, like memberships. I didn't think people would buy to. To get that Included is a 30 minute call with me and people are doing it just to. I've actually made like tens of thousands of dollars off passes without advertising it.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, but that's absolutely unbelievable. And what is the average? Like, when you think about allowing all of these creators to monetize their following, like, what is the average creators are making?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say it's all over the place. We can't really talk about the average or the median. A retention rate I would say is 100% at like $5,000 a month or above. And we have more than a handful of millionaires.

[Emma Grede]

That's unbelievable. Which must have been the aim at the beginning. You were like, okay, like we need to make a bunch of these creators millionaires because that's what's going to attract more and more creators to the platform eventually.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly, yeah. When those stories get out. It's interesting though because like, I think our creators are very like privacy focused.

[Emma Grede]

Really?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. Because they like care about being relatable to their fans.

[Emma Grede]

Fair enough. Yes, of course.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. Like these stories are there, but it's more so like we tell them and like they paid off their house, they like paid off school, et cetera. Which is cool.

[Emma Grede]

Which is like so cool. So when you started Passes, did you go again to that route? You were like, okay, I'm gonna raise VC money. This is gonna be a huge thing. Like, how are you thinking about the business and the potential for passes?

[Lucy Guo]

So when I was building Passes, I was running a VC fund, actually. It was called Backing Capital and HF0. We were. I was essentially living with a bunch of founders and. And I realized that if I were to start another company, my LPs would be very angry at me unless I gave them some equity. So I not only gave equity to like the fund itself, so every LP gets a stake and passes, but I also allowed the LPs to invest. And very quickly, like just through text message, like, didn't have a name, didn't have like a pitch deck, et cetera, ended up raising $9 million over a few days.

[Emma Grede]

So by reputation alone.

[Lucy Guo]

By reputation alone. So then.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, because it's not nothing. I mean, you say it like that. Yeah, A couple of times, text messages. But you're the girl that's done so many things that it's your reputation, your ability to start stuff that's allowed you to be okay in a place where you can text, where you have the people that you can text, and where they will write back to you and give you the money that you.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, it was very quick. I was pleasantly surprised. Like, I hopped on like maybe two phone calls total.

[Emma Grede]

You make it sound so easy. I love that. And so how's the company going now? Like how long has it been and what does it look like?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, so we launched in December 2022. I can't give exact numbers, but 2023 through 2024, we forexed in growth and we're hoping to see some good growth this year. So.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

You're happy. Here's, here's my estimation without numbers. I think if you're still there, it's going okay.

[Lucy Guo]

It's going okay.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, that's what I think. If you haven't done a hop, skip and a jump, I'll set you up. We'll be all right. Yeah, I love that. It's so funny. All right, so I want to talk a little bit about like the recent news because I feel like what happened, you know, it's like sometimes you go on your feed and one piece of news just like dominates it. And that piece of news around you as the youngest female self made billionaire. And I will say it, my aim is to say it 20 times in this podcast. I'll keep saying it for you because it's hard for you to say it yourself without sounding like a total jackass. But did you know that, did you know that that news piece of news was coming? Were you expecting some Big Winfrey?

[Lucy Guo]

Okay, so I actually had no idea. It's very funny. I knew it was happening, but I get a text message from a Forbes reporter who had me to talked to like with like, we literally text all the time about different things, like random stuff. So she just asked me, she's like, oh, so like technically at this share price, doesn't that make you a billionaire? And I was like, I literally don't realize it's a story. So I text back lmao, but it's all on paper. And this was a quote she wanted to include on the article. And I was like, can I make it? I was like, can you make it sound a little bit professional? Like at least replace LMAO with haha something.

[Emma Grede]

Give me something. Give me credit.

[Lucy Guo]

I was Like, I didn't know it was on the record, but isn't that.

[Emma Grede]

Part of you and part of your charm that you haven't like, you know, you're still exactly who you are, that.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm not PR trained.

[Emma Grede]

Not PR trained, though when I met you, I was like, I think you need a pr. I was like, would you like a pr and can I give you one?

[Lucy Guo]

Please, no. Every reporter, every person I go on a podcast with, every journalist, they're like, you know what we love about you? And I'm like, what? And you're like, you're clearly not PR trained, so you're more authentic and you say things. And I'm like, I say things? Am I supposed to say that's what you're saying? Basically, yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I would like to pretend it's our words, but, you know, there's some. Listen, I think that we're in a time where everything is so sanitized, right? Where we never feel like we're getting the truth. And there's something so refreshing and brilliant about you because your skill and your knowledge and how incredibly smart you are and everything that you've worked for is undeniable.

[Lucy Guo]

Right?

[Emma Grede]

No one can take that away from you. But I do think partly what's so fascinating about you is your opening. And I think that as a female founder, I don't know, I just feel like there's just so few people telling the truth and telling the truth about all the successes they've had and all of the failures that they've had. So I personally, like, love that you come and you tell your story and you do it in a really kind of like, you know, loosey goosey way. Literally loosey goosey, because that's helpful. That's what other people can learn from. And so I really appreciate you coming here and being supported so open, because otherwise, like, we don't know, right? It's like you don't know what you haven't heard and what you haven't had exposure to. And so I think you're doing a massive service to a lot of other girls that would walk into a situation like the one that you had. So I'm gonna say no media training for Lucy.

[Lucy Guo]

Thank you very much. Oh, thank you.

[Emma Grede]

What do you think creators are missing in monetization right now? When you think about the future of passes, like, where's it going?

[Lucy Guo]

I'm really excited about the fintech tools, personally. I think they're missing everything when it comes to actually managing and growing their money. And I. Something unique happen over the last few years, which is that creators were literally getting GP carry because they were able to get into deals where creators will just be like, oh, yeah, well, I'll tweet about your product, or I'll be best friends with you, or I'll invite you to cool parties. Literally anything. They could say anything. And the founders would be like, oh, that's amazing. Yes, you can invest. And I do remember this being even true for us. There was one celebrity I think we really wanted and we didn't get them.

[Emma Grede]

I don't think we got them.

[Lucy Guo]

This was our scale. I don't think we got them. But, like, we were like, well, like, I guess if they're willing to, like, be friends with us, we'll let them in.

[Emma Grede]

We'll just let them in.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, exactly.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Lucy Guo]

So I think there's like, opportunity in terms of being like, you know, the next early investor in the next Uber, for example, and, like, where that generational wealth can grow because we've really created a lot of accredited investors. And they just like, the number one question I get asked is, how do I turn my passes income into passes equity, and how do I manage my money?

[Emma Grede]

That's the number one question.

[Lucy Guo]

That's one of the number one questions.

[Emma Grede]

That'S so interesting because that must be such a shift. You know, I started my career in, like, talent representation, doing commercial deals with talent. And it was never the question. It was always about the quickest check, like, you know, most amount of money for the least amount of work, quickest check. And that really changed in the kind of 10 to 15 years that I was in that business. Like, toward the end, people, you know, talent woke up to the fact that they could take equity and that would one day be worth something for them. But it's taken a really long time to trickle down from a list talent level to creators. But you're saying that's actually happening now? Creators are getting equity.

[Lucy Guo]

So I think it's happening because either they're dating someone who's, like, very knowledgeable in the space, which we've seen, and we've seen them negotiate, trying to go like, please, my boyfriend says that should be a good idea. And others that see how much money they're making on passes, they're just like, I need a piece of this company. And I think enough stories have happened where celebrities and influencers are making hundreds of millions, billions from owning a portion of a company that when they are personally seeing a company work for them, they really want to be a part of it. That's been really cool to see. And I think that we can really help build that generational wealth there. Other than that, like, I think there's some other interesting things we can do. For example, we have tons of data on how many super fans a creator actually has, whether they're in a like, high value niche. So for example, golf and how much their fans are willing to spend per month. So you can imagine that like, you know, we have a golf creator that we know has like 10,000 fans wanting to spend $300 a month. There are like some pretty interesting things we can build out.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And I guess once you've got that information, you understand what the benchmark is for a golfer. You can then speak to other golfers and figure out how do you monetize their followings too? What do people or what, what should creators be thinking about now? If somebody has a growing following and they're thinking, okay, this is less of a side hustle hobby for me. This could be my career. What is your recommendation to creators right now?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I think my recommendation is immediately just start creating more content. I think too many creators worry about their content being perfect versus just churning out as many pieces as possible. And I think from what we've seen, I at least as long as you churn out as much as possible, like you will do well and you will continue to grow your following. I think they should immediately.

[Emma Grede]

I'm getting really stressed out because my social girl's sitting over there and I'm like, but I don't look good in that thing. And she's like, just put it out.

[Lucy Guo]

It doesn't matter. Nobody cares.

[Emma Grede]

Nobody's looking at you. And I'm like, but I don't. So annoying that you just said that, by the way.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I mean, like we see this and there's just like a drastic change in earnings when they don't put out enough content. Right. And it could be the shittiest content, but if they put out enough, they, they will make much more money. And I even see this with creators on the breadth side where they're on Instagram Reels, TikTok, et cetera. The ones that are posting every single day are the ones that are gaining new fans constantly and making money. I think immediately after you should really figure out your niche. And I would suggest them to go into niches where brands pay more.

[Emma Grede]

And is that so prescriptive as it used to be? Cause it used again back in the day. It was fashion and beauty and cosmetics and CPG and then automotive. Like it was Very, very prescribed. It feels like it's much broader than that to me now.

[Lucy Guo]

I think it's. Some of it is still very prescribed. It can be broad. But it's like a very select few influencers that are, I almost want to say, are like mini celebrities themselves. Right. Like, there's literally a group of like, what I would say are cool influencers that maybe have between like 1 to 10 million followers. And then there are influencers that have like maybe 20 to 30 million that aren't considered as cool. And. And I think a lot of it is them getting to know you as a person versus them liking your content. When they get to know you as a person, they start stalking you. They wanna know everything in your life. They look at your Snapchat and zoom in on the background, look at the mirror and they're like, oh, my God, so and so is with so and so.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Lucy Guo]

Versus when they just like you for your content, you're not getting that. So you're not really getting that super fan treatment. And I would say Taylor Swift is someone that's a great example of someone that really has super fans that really care about her as a person, versus there are a lot of other celebrities that have huge followings. I would honestly say, and I apologize to all my music friends, but DJs are a great example of a group of artists where everyone knows their music. They're in the top 10 on Spotify, but no one cares if.

[Emma Grede]

Well, they have for breakfast.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. Or no one cares who they're getting dinner with. They're not getting paparazzi the same way.

[Emma Grede]

So each. Because they're making, like a gajillion dollars, they're playing to, like, hundreds and thousands of fans, but then nobody's interested.

[Lucy Guo]

Like, we don't exactly. Like, you need to market your personality and be super authentic because you'd be creating great content. But if they only like your content but not like you as a person, you don't have that super fan base that is going to like, buy anything that you release.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me. When you think about what matters for influencers, like, follow account over engagements. Like, what metrics actually matter now. Because I feel like it changes all the time.

[Lucy Guo]

So I actually think the biggest metric is you see if they have a subreddit or if there's like, different online forums that have created threads of them. Because that's when you know that, like, you have a, like, dedicated fan base that's literally talking about you on discord, telegram, Reddit, Et cetera, which shows super fandom. And they're like stalking your every move and they're looking to see whether you actually like, like they care about your personality versus, I would say, likes and comments. Like even comments, which is what everyone talks about. They like your comments. Content. Like, I'll comment on something where, like, I like the content, but like, I won't even know who the person is. I'll just totally.

[Emma Grede]

You're just gonna be the content. Yeah. That's very interesting. So it's all about. Where else are people actually talking about? Yes, that is completely.

[Lucy Guo]

Like you have fan pages. Because they're talking about you on fan pages. I mean, they're like reposting.

[Emma Grede]

I do, but I'm sure I know some people that do.

[Lucy Guo]

You definitely have fan pages.

[Emma Grede]

That's crazy.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Wow. I never even thought about that before. What do you think smaller creators need to know? Like, if you are someone, again, you actually have like a pretty small following. Aside from, okay, you've got a post with regularity. You have to be super authentic and let people in. Like, what should creators be doing if they actually want to create a business out of being a creator?

[Lucy Guo]

I think they would want to create a business out of being a creator. Well, first you really do have to get like some sort of following. Unless you throw ads. You could throw ads and release a good product and throw ads. But like, being a creator isn't going to help you as much. I think collaborations are key. So you want to find creators that are like slightly the same following as you to start, because they're going to be the ones willing to collaborate. And then you'll each benefit from that mutually. But then as you continue growing and following, you can start collaborating with larger and larger creators. And sometimes you'll get lucky and an extremely large creator would be willing to collaborate with you even though you have a smaller following. And then that's when you start growing that base. And then as long as while you're growing that base, you're showing them your authentic, true self and you're being very personable so they can get addicted to you as a person and not just your content, you should be able to start getting customer acquisition without any cost to it.

[Emma Grede]

I would say also if you just.

[Lucy Guo]

Become friends with a bunch of creators is like, they'll post your product for free.

[Emma Grede]

That's what happens. Yeah, exactly. That's what happens. I mean, I see like that happen all the time and we've used that so many times in the business. Exactly. Just makes sense because most of these people are all friends together.

[Lucy Guo]

And then I also think that, I mean, like, I don't want to say stalk someone, but I think that you can just DM people say, like, what's your address? I want to ship you a present. Don't ask them to post. And like, if they like the product, they're just going, yes, exactly. Like, I get so much random stuff. And like, when I actually like the product, I'll post what I'm asking.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, of course. From your perspective, like, what's changing? Because it feels to me like what worked a year ago doesn't work anymore. What are the smartest creators doing right now?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say the smartest creators right now, and I may be biased, are actually building their, like, super fan communities. Some creators are actually starting their own Reddit threads and actually, like, you know, posting on their Reddit threads as fans to get started. Yep. But like, Savage, if you think about it, like, let's say you have like a million followers, but you only have like 100 real fans. Right. But like, those hundred real fans go on to Reddit and try to find you and they don't find you, so there's nowhere to talk about you with other fans. That's not a great situation. Versus if you plant that, you can really start growing that, like, super fan base. And then, like, people feel more normalized. It's like, okay, cool. Like, there must be something more interesting about this person. So I really do think the smartest creators, they are building that super fan community and they are monetizing off of it. And the smartest creators are taking equity from brands, which, I've said this before, but it's just such a huge loss. If you believe in a product, product, it is worth taking less cash for equity. We had creators where we literally tried to give them free equity and their managers were like, they didn't even change the cash value. They just told them not take the equity. I'm like, so you're just taking less.

[Emma Grede]

Of that back to those managers again. But you've said Parsleys is about ownership. Are you doing what you wanted to do with that company? Like, if you created the platform that you intended to from the beginning?

[Lucy Guo]

I believe so. And we're continuously building new tools, tools for them to, like, have even more ownership over their fans. We're very transparent. When they, like, ask us for data, we, like, give them as much data as possible. We have like, creator success managers that work with all creators above $5,000 a month or more. And it's like you're literally your personal guide that you can text all the time but also give you reports like, oh, okay, cool. Monday at 6pm is your best post time. We're creating like AI tools to help them price their content so they can optimize.

[Emma Grede]

That's one of the hardest things.

[Lucy Guo]

Ah. Oh. It's been like, like our initial model has already been 2x seen earnings which is wow. So we're that was always the thing.

[Emma Grede]

You know, it's like I remember like when I used to do this for a living, but it was honestly like how much you were gonna pay for somebody or you'd get a brand to pay for someone. It's as long as a piece of string and often the first number that came out is like the deal would orientate itself around there and you didn't know if you could get 10 times as much or exactly if you completely, you know, overpriced it. You would never ever know that kind of stuff. We can all remember the moment when it finally clicks, when you're budgeting for the month and you realize that little daily decisions like swapping a debit card for coffee or groceries can actually shape your long term financial future. And that's when you know you need to be more intentional about your credit. Chime makes that easier with the Chime Credit Builder Secured Visa credit card, you can build your credit with everyday purchases and on time payments without worrying about credit card credit checks, minimum deposits, annual fees or interest. It will help you feel more in control. Better credit can mean lower rates on car loans, more flexibility in emergencies, even a better shot at getting approved for an apartment. Chime offers smart tools, credit tracking and personalized tips that make the whole process feel way less overwhelming. And with Chime, you're using your own money just in a smarter way to build credit where it counts. Make everyday purchases count with Chime's secure credit builder. Visa Credit Credit Card get started today at chime. Com Aspire Chime feels like progress.

[Lucy Guo]

The Chime Credit Builder Visa credit card is issued by the bank, Corporate bank NA or Stripe Bank NA Chime Checking account required to apply Money added to Credit Builder will be held in your secured deposit account as collateral and is your Credit Builder card's available to spend amount. This is money you can use to pay off your monthly charges out of network ATM withdrawal and otc. Advance fees may apply. Late payment may negatively impact your credit score. Results may vary. Go to time.comdisclosures for details.

[Emma Grede]

Looking to refresh your wardrobe without the hassle of in Store shopping or endless scrolling. Daily look offers a premium personalized styling experience, all from the comfort of home. DailyLook is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. Each customer is matched with a dedicated personal stylist, not an algorithm who selects up to 12 high quality pieces based on body shape preferences and your lifestyle. Boxes are delivered directly to your door so you can try everything on at home. Keep what you love and send back the rest with free shipping both ways. It's flexible, convenient and completely tailored to your star. With Delivery options every 30, 60 or 90 days. DailyLook makes it easy to stay current with the seasons or build a closet that works year round. Elevate your style by signing [e-mail] today. Take your style [e-mail] and get 50% off your first styling fee with the code ASPIRE. That's dailylook.com code ASPIRE. Where do you see passes fitting into the ecosystem three to five years from now? Because obviously I feel like creators aren't going anywhere. The kind of pie is only getting bigger and bigger. Where do you want to see passes specifically?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say like three to five years from now. I almost think passes can act as like a creator's manager or agent. This goes back to AI. I like, it's advancing at a very like, fast speed. Right. And I do think in the future what we're going to be seeing is creators, like both sell their likeness and like, I think Pacifist is going to be a really great platform for the brands to be able to work with like an AI version of a pastas creator to like AI agents. Essentially like negotiating for creators. Wow. Which I think will be super interesting. And I don't think this is like necessarily going to like wipe out the manager business, but I think what it's going to do is that like, instead of working with like only 20 creators, managers now have the time to work with like a thousand creators.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Lucy Guo]

And then they can take a smaller percentage so more money goes into the creator's pocket because they're working with so many more creators. At least that's like my ideal future.

[Emma Grede]

Clearly not the agency's ideal future. Are the more traditional, like the Hollywood agencies onto what you're doing? Like, are people sniffing around passes and trying to understand it a little bit more?

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, we work with agencies. I think that we coexist very peacefully. I think that agencies are actually going to really enjoy when AI agents help them negotiate. Because theoretically, if you can work with a thousand creators Even if you're taking a smaller percentage, you're making more money. Exactly, you're making more money. And I think that like creators are going to like right now I think there is a fear of AI from creators because they're like, oh, they're going to steal our data, they're going to replace us. Like we're going to have fear of.

[Emma Grede]

AI from the creators, the non creators from all of us all of a sudden. Hopefully you're going to make us feel much less fearful when I ask you all my AI questions. But when you look at the creator landscape, like, who do you think is killing it? When you, if you were saying like, this is like the best in class creator, like who. Who are those people?

[Lucy Guo]

Like creators themselves. Oh, I mean, like, I definitely think Alix Earle is crushing it.

[Emma Grede]

Crushing.

[Lucy Guo]

And the reason being that like, I think she like is betting on herself. So for example, with Sip Marks, I got that, like, I got the deal flow and when I looked at it, I was like, she is going to crush it. She owns a lot of equity in sipmargs, so good job, Alix Earl for making the equity.

[Emma Grede]

Good for her. She listens.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. And I heard that like she's crushing sales. Right. So that's amazing. I think about eventually she will like actually build her own brand.

[Emma Grede]

I mean she. Yeah, and she should build her own brand. She did something for my husband's company, Frame, and she just crushes. I mean there is no limit to what that girl can sell and how many eyeballs she can bring into anything.

[Lucy Guo]

Yep, exactly. And like a lot of it is because she was like, you know, authentic on Internet. She wasn't able to, like, she was able to show the good and the bad and people started becoming obsessed with her as a person, not her content. Which is what makes creators unique.

[Emma Grede]

Yes.

[Lucy Guo]

I think that the Paul brothers, like, they're very controversial, but like, they have crushed it there. I do kind of credit myself for Jake Paul, though, I'm not gonna lie.

[Emma Grede]

You do give me more of that story. How are you taking credit for Jake Paul?

[Lucy Guo]

I helped host the party where Jeff and Jake Paul met. And Jeff is his venture partner. And Jeff is the one that essentially helped Jake build W. And with better. That's my friend Joey Levy's company. And I think that happened because of that whole tree.

[Emma Grede]

I'll give it to you. Exactly.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I have a little bit of credit.

[Emma Grede]

Fully responsible for Jake.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm taking a little bit of credit there. But he's done a really good job of taking his brand and so many venture studios now are trying to find creators like Jake to work with where they're like, be the face and we'll give you 50%. Right. And that actually works out really well because then they have way less marketing spend that they need to do. And especially if it's a good product, like obviously can't release a bad product because people will just shit on the creator and then it'll flop. If it's a good product, like, people are gonna continue to buy it.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. And there's so many great products.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

So what do you see as red flags in the creator economy right now? Like, what are people not talking about enough?

[Lucy Guo]

I think people are not talking about the fact that like your following can be like ripped away from you at any time. Like there's that whole TikTok scare.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah. Like you don't own your following.

[Lucy Guo]

You don't own your following. I think with TikTok, people like really started freaking out where like, oh crap, what is going to happen? But also on top of that, like, even if, let's say you didn't have to worry about that, if you're just relying on brand deals, like I've had creators tell us that it is like the most inconsistent income they have.

[Emma Grede]

No doubt.

[Lucy Guo]

You can literally like, let's say you had consistent brand deals. Like you knew you were getting 10 brand deals a month. I've had creators that told me that like they had to take a fast food job because the brands didn't pay on time. Like they're like 12 months late, et cetera. And this doesn't only exist in the creator industry, it exists in like the modeling industry, for example. Of course.

[Emma Grede]

Of course.

[Lucy Guo]

But it's just like very unfair, I'd say.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah.

[Lucy Guo]

Another thing.

[Emma Grede]

And there's still an element of it that's like a bit wild. Wild west.

[Lucy Guo]

Right.

[Emma Grede]

Because there's so much smoke and mirrors. There's know, like, I mean, a lot of the big traditional Hollywood agencies, the WMEs, the CAAS, the UTAS, have got creative divisions, but they're not as established as the, you know, like the motion picture divisions or whatever. So there is just so much murkiness there still.

[Lucy Guo]

And then also on that note, I have a lot of people that hate me after this one, but I just don't sign 360deals. Like I've seen so many creators sign these like crazy360deals where the manager is taking 20 to 30 of everything they do. It's like if they decide they want to like start a brand like, let's say they're like, I'm going to start a marijuana brand. I don't know, just saying. And it blows up. And the manager had nothing to do with it. They're still taking the 20, 30%.

[Emma Grede]

That's just like unbelievable naivety. But again, that comes because who do you have, right? If you're a girl and you live in the middle of the country and you start, you know, kicking off and you have half a million followers, like, who's advising you? And then an agency sweeps in and you're like, well, this feels good. You know, they're offering X, X, Y and Z. So don't sign 360 deals. I love that. As a piece of advice.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. And then also, I've seen so many managers literally steal people's money, so I have to say be careful about that, too.

[Emma Grede]

Well, that's why you're building all of these, like, tools, Right. I mean, that's what you're doing at Parsons. It's like you're actually essentially going to allow creators to own any monetization. Exactly. To have visibility on it, to take control of it and to maximize it.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. Full transparency. Full transparency.

[Emma Grede]

Transparency. Pretty amazing. Yeah, really amazing. All right, now here's what I want to understand, because you are the AI lady, which is how I go around. I'm like, the AI lady. Like, you know, that, that billionaire AI lady girl. I want to talk most. I want to talk about AI. I want to understand if you. I mean, first of all, there are so few women in AI. Like, why is that? And do you think that, like, you know, the. I guess the first kind of tech revolution, that women are going to be left behind? Because when I just as an example, when I go around my office and I ask people, like, what AI tools are you using? What apps did you download? Like, you know, it's like I'm trying to gobble up the information. I am speaking 90% to the guys. Right. It's just like, not the preserve of the girls. Why do you think that is? And are you concerned about it at all?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think it all comes down to education and culture. So at least when I grew up, I was told that, like, women would not be engineers, essentially, which is very interesting because I grew up in the Bay Area. Right. But when you have that and then when you have a lack of female founders because of that, then generally investors, like, you become an investor after you cash out from your company, for example, or like, even if you fail at your company, venture Funds love hiring failed founders as well. They typically like successful founders more. But like I have seen failed founders like get hired at venture funds. But when there's, there's a lack of female investors, you have a lack of everything else. And I think the core problem comes down to like, traditionally there has been a lack of female investors because there have been a lack of women that study computer science. There's been a lack of like female founders, there's been a lack of just like it's a cycle. I'm more optimistic for the future because like when I went to go volunteer at a hackathon, I think it was an Apple store or something, it was like 50%.

[Emma Grede]

Now you volunteer at the hackathon?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I like, so happy. Yeah, It'll be like 50% women. And I'm like, amazing. That's so cool. And they'll be like, you know, 10 year old kids. And I'm like, it makes me more optimistic for future. And I'm also more optimistic for the future because there's now a push for more female investors.

[Emma Grede]

I mean, such a push.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. Especially as the data shows that like female founders actually do better.

[Emma Grede]

They do better. And I suspect their results are better.

[Lucy Guo]

The results are better and I think the results are better because there's a higher bar for women to clear. And I always say that, like if you take two kids from mit, one's a male, one's a female, the male is going to get the funding. But if you take like 2 VP of engineering from like open AI, the female is going to get the funding. Now that like there's a push.

[Emma Grede]

That's fascinating, by the way.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, yeah, but you can do it like. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah. Everyone wants diversity, but we do.

[Emma Grede]

And listen, you know, it's so funny. I had Karlie Kloss on this podcast and she has done this incredible initiative code with Crossy for years and years. And you know, I know Karlie through fashion and it's always been around. I don't think I'd understood the full extent of what she's doing. She's put 20,000 women through courses and introduced them to coding and he's introducing them to AI. And I'm like, that to me just feels like such a good way of like spending your money, such a good use of resources. What is your advice to women at the start of their career or women just coming out of school? What would you say to anyone that wants a career in this kind of space right now?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, honestly, if I were to give like a very, very practical advice. It's build up your resume. I think that you will have a higher bar to clear and unfortunately is just how society works. But have comfort in knowing that once you clear that high bar, you will actually be more desired. Because every single person wants to invest in the female founder, they just look down on women a little bit more. Like they just assume you're worse when you don't have that resume built up. But then when you like show proof, they can't deny that you're good. And then they'll be like, okay, cool, this person is obviously clearly talented. I wanna invest in women, so let me invest in them versus there's gonna be more doubt when you're newer. And then if I.

[Emma Grede]

That is, by the way, fantastic advice because I think it's absolutely true. Yep, it's absolutely true.

[Lucy Guo]

Definitely. And then from like a very tactical standpoint at least, if you're in tech, what I would personally do is go work, get at least one large company name on your resume. It doesn't have to be a public company, but like Stripe. Right. Like Stripe is huge. It's large, it's well respected, and then go to a startup, see the startup for like 1 to 2 years. Ideally choose like a series A startup where you've de risked it. The upside is still very high and there's probably enough engineers that they've built a reputation amongst the culture of the company and then go off into your own thing.

[Emma Grede]

First of all, that is like such tremendous advice. So you're like, go to a really big company, not necessarily a public company, but like a really big one. Get that year on your resume, then go to a startup, post series A so that there's a little bit of foundation. Do a couple of years there, then number three, go off on your own. Yep.

[Lucy Guo]

And then to choose a series A company, you should just email every single VC out there and just be like, hey, I'm looking for a job. What are your best portfolio? Companies that are series a and like VCs want to funnel their resources into the best companies. So they're only going to be telling you like who they think are going to be like the series B contenders.

[Emma Grede]

Very smart.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So then you de risk it even more. You're pretty much guaranteed some like, liquidity.

[Emma Grede]

No, but you're absolutely right. I mean I was looking at the stats and some of them are really quite scary. Right. 29% of AI professionals are women. One in five global AI leadership roles are held by women. Just 2% of venture capital funding went to women. I mean it goes on and on and on and on. But what you're actually saying is once you've got the experience as a woman, so once you've done the work, once you've got a little bit of a proven track record, you're actually in a better situation than a man would be because you're a woman. So it's just about that initial two, three years of experience that you need to get.

[Lucy Guo]

I definitely think so. And I think the reason why we're seeing those stats now is because that was the past and now the trend is shifting towards like industries becoming friendlier to women. At least I think I can be very wrong. But based off like what I've seen and what like both as like you know, I was a female GP and I fundraised and I was like, okay, cool. Like they have so many funds dedicated to just like so many LP funds dedicated to just investing in female gps. I went to Axon, I was like seeing kids literally all want to study computer science and like 50% were women.

[Emma Grede]

No, they really do. And it's starting young. Like the eight year old girls. Like my little kid wants to do a coding summer camp. She's like 8 years old. And I was like, oh, okay, exactly.

[Lucy Guo]

Like we're seeing a little bit of delay in like the woman being able to get that resume because it does take like, you know, let's call it three years to get up there. But once you have that resume and like let's call it like another three year delay and like AI is just only now becoming hot. I think in the next like five to 10 years, we're going to see that percentage balance out more. At least that's what I hope.

[Emma Grede]

This time of year always brings change, new routines, shifting weather and a lot more germs. So instead of just reaching for hand sanitizer, I choose to function. It's the only health platform that gives you access to deep clinical level data that most people never see and real insight so you can take action with function. You can test over 160 biomarkers, everything from heart and hormone health to toxins, inflammation and stress. Plus they offer multi region MRI and CT scans, all tracked in one secure place over time. Right now I'm focused on strengthening immunity function. Function makes it easy to track the markers that really matter, like vitamin D, zinc ferritin and hscrp. These aren't always included in routine checkups, but they can explain why you're feeling run down and not bouncing back. Top health minds like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Mark Hyman stand behind function and I can see why this is the kind of health prep that pays off all year. Learn more and join using my link. The first thousand get $100 credit towards the their membership. Visit functionhealth.com aspire or use gift code aspire100 at sign up to your own health if you're always on the go like me, making wellness a daily habit can be difficult. But thanks to Symbiotica, they make this daily habit that much easier with on the go high quality science backed supplements that support your mind and body from the inside out. Standout products include Magnesium L Threonate, designed to enhance focus, reduce brain fog and support restful sleep. The Luposomal Glutathione supports glowing skin, gut health and healthy aging, while the Shilajit Liquid Complex is known to help boost cellular energy and cognitive function. Every product is thoughtfully formulated with several, including the glutathione and Vitamin C using Luposomal delivery Delivery for faster nutrient absorption. If you've been looking for effective support for energy, focus, mood or skin health, this is a great place to start. It's one of those small things that can help you feel more like you again. Go to symbiotica.com aspire for 20% off plus free shipping that's symbiotica.com aspire for twenty percent off plus free shipping.

[Lucy Guo]

So.

[Emma Grede]

What are the five practical ways that we can all start using AI today? Like if it's in business, in content, like what are the ways that you would say like start using AI right now?

[Lucy Guo]

I can say that like I personally use it for like marketing. So for example, AI is trained on the past. Like you feed it information and it's only as good as what you feed it. But it happens to be very good at looking at patterns. Let's say it read like every single TikTok video script that went viral, right? Like it's going to be able to recreate something for you you that will go viral. So in terms of like creating scripts and like marketing, I use it for that. I've used it for content generation obviously in terms of just like even marketing images. For example, when I have you know like a new icon or something I want to just create. It's easier to just have AI generate it and then just give it to a designer and be like okay, cool. Can you like finish the last 5% of it? I haven't heard so I haven't done this myself. I find it very interesting. I had a friend use it to create an entire business. He basically asked Chad Beatty, like, hey, I have $50, like make me a profitable business. And it literally did the research found like a random niche that he should create a website around with a $50 budget bought hosting and a domain name. And then long story short, step by step plan makes $5,000 a month. Now that's crazy.

[Emma Grede]

That is so crazy. So that the point is we should just be using it.

[Lucy Guo]

We should just be using it every single way. Every single aspect. Yes. Like, just know that like it's only as good as like what it's trained on. It just happens to be trained on a lot of stuff on the Internet. I think one example is doctors, for example. Like everyone's like, oh, like well doctors go away. No, doctors won't go away because AI might be better at detecting cancer, but it might not be trained on like the latest clinical trial and that doctor is going to know what the best treatment plan is. So I don't think AI is taking over, but it gets you like 80, 90% of the way there and then you can use your brain to solve the really hard problems.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, I mean it's so interesting because I had a dinner in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago and I sat around with a bunch of people that you would probably know and the conversation was like, what is going to happen?

[Lucy Guo]

Right?

[Emma Grede]

Like how concerned are we? And I think the general consensus in the AI community is there is a lot of concern. Where do you think we're going to be in 10 years and are you working? Worried?

[Lucy Guo]

I'm not necessarily worried. So for me, I think that AI is going to be acting as our co pilot so we can use our brains, like I said before, to solve the really hard problems. It's going to solve more of the mundane tasks. I do think that some jobs are going away, but new jobs are being created. For example, we've created an entire industry of lower level tasks for labeling because we're going to constantly need to label data to make the AI better because AI is only as good as the data that we provide it. Prompt engineering is a new job where, where people are literally being hired to get the best output from the inputs that they provide AI. So I'm excited to see where it shifts. And I've also named the example of AI agents. And agents aren't necessarily disappearing, but more money is going to be able to go to a creator and they're just going to be able to work with more people. I Think this is going to be happening in pretty much every single industry where I think people are nervous is can it create a larger diagram dichotomy in the world economically? For example, are we going to be able to have chips that are implanted in our brains and there will be superhumans that are being able to create it? Or can AI get very smart and be able to map a genome sequence to the point where you know everything about your embryo? And are the people that can afford this going to be able to create super babies?

[Emma Grede]

That's the scary shit that people are talking about, right? Is there going to be data warfare? Are we going to have some like weird, you know, China, America situation? Is there going to be biochemical? Like I feel like those are the things that people are very concerned about. Like when does it get too much? When does it get out of our control? I want to talk to you about just again, kind of going back to this idea of being in such male dominated spaces constantly. Do you think that you've taught yourself strategies or did somebody teach you like how to navigate some of these conversations and some of the things that come up? Because again, you are, you know, you're back in those rooms, you have raised a lot of money for passes, you've got this incredible company that's doing great things, but it only gets more difficult from now. So I'm just interested to understand like how you feel coming into those rooms as Lucy at 30 years of age.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I think at Lucy, 30 years of age is a lot more confident. I am not nearly as worried. I think that like I've learned a lot just through observing others around me. Like I'm very lucky to have so many brilliant people that I'm surrounded by all really different industries from tech, which is where I learned, you know, like how to fundraise very, very quickly, to real estate and music, which is how I've been able to manage to get free artist passes everywhere. But it's probably a mix of just being like, yes, like people tell me advice, right. But then I also just observe. I'm like, okay, cool, this is how you did it. Let me take those learnings and try to apply it myself.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel pressure from other women in business or more like women in tech that you almost have to be like a bit of a role model or is that a trap that you resist?

[Lucy Guo]

I don't see myself as a role model. Weirdly enough.

[Emma Grede]

Everyone always tells me, isn't that many of you though?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I mean I get told it and I just like, I kind of like my way of saying thanks for saying that is I always try to give my time. So if there is a female founder that needs IT advice or really any founder that needs advice, I'll always be happy to pick up the phone and give them advice on like how to get into yc, their advice on their product.

[Emma Grede]

You see that as like a, like a duty, like a responsibility though. I understand you don't want to be thought of as a role model, but you're clearly giving this information and speaking to founders like, for what reason?

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, I like seeing people win. Like when Hailey Bieber. Yes, I love Hell yes. They were like, oh, Lucy's like, you know, the youngest female self made billionaire. I'm like, no, Haley's next. Haley's ending. Let's go.

[Emma Grede]

Hayley, that's amazing. That's. Ready to have your crown taken?

[Lucy Guo]

No, literally, like it makes me so happy when other people do really well. So I just, I feel like, why keep that advice? Like it's not, it's not hurting me if I give it, right? Like, whatever. Like let's have a win.

[Emma Grede]

And there's a real need, right? Because I think there's a way that you speak, there's a level of honesty. There is just a reality of the experience that you had uniquely, that only you can tell. So I think it's like hugely, hugely valuable. I want to talk to you about, about money because you obviously have like a different type of wealth now. How, how are you coping with that? What you're doing with your money? Like what is happening?

[Lucy Guo]

Well, I mean, I think people don't realize like my money is like illiquid, right? Like, have I thought about all of it? Pretty much all of it.

[Emma Grede]

You haven't divested any of it.

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, I have like eight figures, like liquid.

[Emma Grede]

It's not nothing.

[Lucy Guo]

I mean it's not nothing, but like, it's not like.

[Emma Grede]

But you're not sitting on like billions and billions of dollars.

[Lucy Guo]

No, I'm not sitting on like, like, could I have it?

[Emma Grede]

I planned like a little shopping trip after our chat today. We could go and, you know, I'm down rodeo it. No, you're not. It's not like you're sitting on a mountain of cash. But you've taken some money off the table.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes, I've taken some money off the table. I'm very comfortable, pretty much. I have no liquid cash in my bank account. I put it all into stocks. They're all in investments. And I just pretend like it doesn't exist, which right now I actually do because I'm down a lot from year to day. But the way I think about money is more. So like, should I diversify more? Like, should I take A. Another 100, 200 off the table? Right. So then I can just be very comfortable. Very, very comfortable.

[Emma Grede]

So all of your money right now you have invested?

[Lucy Guo]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

That's how you're living? Yes. You're living relatively modestly from a. Relatively modestly from a lifestyle point of view, and you are chucking everything into investments.

[Lucy Guo]

Yes.

[Emma Grede]

And who advises you?

[Lucy Guo]

I work with J.P. morgan right now.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, same.

[Lucy Guo]

And in France. Yeah. Yeah, J.P. morgan's great.

[Emma Grede]

You take. Yeah. And you take like, you know, information from friends and putting into it.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly. Okay.

[Emma Grede]

Amazing. Is it working out?

[Lucy Guo]

I mean, I would say given that it's probably my fault that the portfolio's down. So yes, I would say it's working out.

[Emma Grede]

Is there anything that you're doing with your money that would surprise people? Apart from partying hard, But I don't think it's that surprising. I know you.

[Lucy Guo]

What am I doing? I'm really just not doing anything with money.

[Emma Grede]

Really?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah, I'm really not doing anything.

[Emma Grede]

Do you have a relationship to it though? Is this. Has it given you a comfort level? Has it changed the way that you think about maybe your future business endeavors or, you know, like passes or anything?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So I do think it's changed the way on how I think. Like, one of the reasons I, like decided to start Passes is because consumer is one of the hardest challenges to really tackle. And I've always optimized for learning every step of the way way I've made decisions, which is probably my other piece of advice to founders, like just optimize for learning and you never go wrong. But I don't feel like I need another. Like I want another win, but I want a challenge. Right. And it felt like I didn't need an obvious win. Yes. Because I think B2B enterprise is much easier to win in because it's brute forceable versus consumers. Not as brute forceable. So I think it gave me the freedom to think about that. I have like the options where it's like, okay, cool. Like, let's say that I want to strike a large deal or throw a huge party in the name of passes, but I don't want to spend company money. Right. I can put in my own money to throw an event and promote my brand without spending company money, which is really nice. I do a lot of things most founders are expensing everything, and I don't need to do that so I can actually put the money into good use, which I think is better. So I think it supported me that I think. I think that the biggest change in my life with money is that I just get a lot more things for free.

[Emma Grede]

People won't like to hear that shit.

[Lucy Guo]

I know. And it's just like, you know, like, there's that whole argument where people are like, oh, when you're wealthy, like, wealthy people spend less money and it's more expensive to be poor. There's that saying, it's more expensive to be poor. And I fully agree with that. Like, I just, like, am surrounded by so many. Like, I'm surrounded by different type and group people now. And because. Because of that, I just get offered things for free. It's like, oh, you want a flight to New York? Come hop on my private jet for free. Or it's like, oh, you want to go to Coachella? Here's free artist passes. I posted that I liked chili oil on my Instagram account, and I have chili oil. Yeah, I had several.

[Emma Grede]

Someone sent you a lot of chili oil?

[Lucy Guo]

Yes, several brands. Several brands actually sent me a lot of free chili oil.

[Emma Grede]

Is there any sense of. Okay, so tell me this, because I understand that and I can imagine. And listen, at a certain age, if you're 30 years old and people are chucking, like, free flights and come here, come there, like, that's very alluring. But is there any part of you that feels a sense of responsibility with that money? Or is it like, no, this is about investing and looking after me and my future.

[Lucy Guo]

I would say, in terms of responsibility, I've always wanted to get a nonprofit world. I technically have set up a daft, but I'm not liquid. So I mean, the idea is that, like, eventually I would want to grow that money and then invest. I've debated whether I wanted to create my own nonprofit or invest in a nonprofit, because I think a lot of people are like, I'm gonna build my own nonprofit. Right? But then they actually don't really know how to run a nonprofit. So you're seeing, like, you know, like, Bill Melinda Gates obviously have their nonprofit, right? But there are also other people who just decided, like, my time is best spent making a lot of money and donating it. And I think I'm like, at that point where I'm like, thinking about, like, do I want to start my own? Do I not? I'm exploring. So I'm talking to, like, some non profit Boards right now because I want to, like, kind of learn more about.

[Emma Grede]

What's your love interest, do you think?

[Lucy Guo]

Human trafficking? So I.

[Emma Grede]

Where does that come from, Lucy?

[Lucy Guo]

Where does it come from? So I really thought about this and I think part of it could be from when I was growing up and I went to China and my parents would like, point at these kids and be like, those kids were kidnapped and trafficked and the kidnappers chopped off their arms so they could go beg for money and give it to the kidnappers. And I was like, holy crap. Right? And I think that not enough people have used technology to help solve this problem. And I can go on and on about that, but I actually think AI will really help tackle human trafficking. And there's like, interesting avenues. Like Thorn is doing some interesting stuff with tech and I'm like, okay, cool. There's different angles that you can take. I think eventually I would want to do something combining tech and human trafficking. And it's just, is it better to donate to something like Thorn or is it better to just do it myself?

[Emma Grede]

Well, you have plenty of time to figure it out and then you've got to get that money out as well, so you know what to do with it.

[Lucy Guo]

So the first thing is nonprofit board and to figure it out.

[Emma Grede]

There you go. I have no doubt that you'll work it out. I wanted to really ask you about the more outwardly facing media part of, you know, your job or the role of being a female founder. Does that, does that matter to you? Do you find, do you think it's useful? I mean, you're already in this kind of crossover business with like, being involved in the creator industry. Like, how do you feel about that? Because I think that we hear so many people say, oh, you know, like, as a founder, it makes so much sense for you to, you know, have a media facing presence and then you get the other side of it, which is like so many funds or so many investors are like, I do not want to see you and, you know, your private life out on display. How do you feel about that?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say, like, before passes, I probably would have preferred privacy, but now I'm doing passes. I think that it's actually very important for me to be very out there. Part of the reason why a lot of creators join Passes is because I think it's a really relationships driven business and being able to put my face and my personality to the company is why they trust us.

[Emma Grede]

Right.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm super close to a lot of our creators. They're welcome into The Office anytime. We actually turn into creator studio, which is so cool. So we see them all the time. Yeah, they're like filming podcasts, doing photo shoots, etc. Creating a music studio in there. But because it's such a relationships driven business, I think emotional retention is something that does exist within the creator economy. I think it's very important for me to be out there and really continue to get to know our creators and let them know, hey, this is who I am, this is the brand. We're trustworthy, we care about you. Because if there were no face to business, we're just a tech platform.

[Emma Grede]

Totally.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

What do you say to anyone though, that would say, oh, but I'd like you to have a different image because you are very you. Right. It's like you're out, you're in Ibiza, you're not making any apologies to anyone.

[Lucy Guo]

Let's say that I'm really bad at faking it. So I think that immediately it'd be very obvious that I've turned inauthentic and then we would lose trust. Right. When we trust, we lose our creators horribly. Off brand. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

I want to talk to you a little bit about leadership as well. So, I mean, do you feel like you, you've, you have leadership style or you've developed your leadership style over the years? Is there anything that you've done that I just wonder, like, are you a particularly harsh leader? You feel like someone who doesn't mince their words very much?

[Lucy Guo]

I think I'm very blunt in terms of harshness. I don't think I'm harsh, but that is, like, to be determined. I think, like, my thing with leaders is that I believe that all leaders need to do IC work. You're not going to be able to know how well your team is doing unless you've done it yourself. Right. And I think too many companies and too many leaders, they just try to delegate. And I don't really believe in delegation per se. I'm like, if you have five minutes free, nothing is below you go answer that customer support ticket. This is something that you still do that now? Oh, I always literally, when, like, if I see that something has gone unanswered for 10 minutes, I like, jump in. Whoa. I'm very good at multitasking. But yeah, I'm just like, I think that it is so important to just continue to like, be in the weeds. Yeah. I just don't believe in delegation. So I tell all my leadership team, like, hey, like, yes, you have to spend time, like doing Things that leaders do, which is like managing your team, figuring out, like, who's being efficient, who's not giving feedback. But I know that you do have, like five, 10 minutes in a day sometimes. And I see you delegate. There's no need to delegate.

[Emma Grede]

It takes 30 seconds.

[Lucy Guo]

It takes 30 seconds to do it. Just do it. Because, for example, if you're a customer support lead, right? If you don't know how the product works, you won't really be able to understand if someone's underperforming because they're taking an hour to answer a question. If you know how the product works, you'll understand. Like, that question could have been answered in 30 seconds. So this person. Person is just. They're not doing their job.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, yeah. And it's the only way you know is by having done it yourself.

[Lucy Guo]

Exactly.

[Emma Grede]

Do you think. I mean, there was something I read where you said you hadn't played by the rules. What's a time when you've been a bit disruptive or destructive, do you think.

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, man, I always say ask for forgiveness. Which I would say has worked out sometimes and hasn't worked out other times. Like, one example is obviously, like, you know, when we were like, let's do the food delivery thing without looking up any of the lines. I think another example is we're working on paying a lot of European taxes right now because we were just like, okay, cool. Like, let's do this. We earn money. Yeah. It turns out European sales taxes are a lot of money. We're backtracking all of that right now.

[Emma Grede]

To be quite honest. So you learn. It'll catch up with you eventually.

[Lucy Guo]

We're constantly learning. But I think that, like, if it's important not to let all the, like, Uber would not exist. It's if they play by the rules, right. They ask for forgiveness after. And I think that even, like, for us, it's like, cool. We got a lot of European creators. We didn't play by the rules, but it let us move faster. And now, yes, we're having to pay a few fines, but I think it was worth it.

[Emma Grede]

How much of that, like, Silicon Valley mythology, you know, like, what happens in those companies actually impacts what you do and how your style of run running a business.

[Lucy Guo]

I think a lot, honestly, like, I look at companies and founders I admire, and I'm like, okay, cool. Like, this is what you did. Like, here's what I like that you did. And here's why I don't like. And let me follow this path from everything, like, choosing Investors to like, how I hire, et cetera. I think that Silicon Valley culture, like, when you see companies build fast and like, be able to take customer feedback and implement it within a week or even an hour sometimes, like, I think that wild. Yeah, that's stuff like I. I very much learned you have to do.

[Emma Grede]

Where do you think you. I just wonder because you mentioned earlier, like, basically like always learning, like, where do you learn?

[Lucy Guo]

Where do I learn? I think I just learn from the people around me. I enjoy learning about different industries personally because I feel like I know so much.

[Emma Grede]

What are you doing? Are you. Are you taking meetings? Are you just like having a lot of phone calls with people?

[Lucy Guo]

I think I just meet a lot of people. Like a lot of new people, really, through random networks, even through Instagram, if I'm being completely honest. And I just ask them a lot of questions and then, you know, vice vers ask me a lot of questions. You learn about a different industry, you become friends, and it's just fun.

[Emma Grede]

It's just fun. You've had your fair bit of controversy with passes, and I guess that's just part of being a founder and running a business. How do you feel? You know, because I think about all of these tech companies and how they feel about what is their level of responsibility. How have you squared that away with what you're doing now?

[Lucy Guo]

I would say you should always just like, try to fix things. Especially like tech. There's always going to be people trying to get around rules, et cetera, and you should just try your best to like, solve it. You're never really going to be able to solve everything, I think, but as long as you're putting your best effort, that actually matters a lot.

[Emma Grede]

Yeah, it really does matter. How do you think about the balance of growth and ethics? Because when you're in a business, like you are, like, you see something, you fix it immediately. But sometimes you, you know, I'm assuming you just let things go because you're like, it's more important to grow today.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. If it's like something very, very bad, then that takes priority. So for example, like, if it's a security issue and we think that like a bunch of our are like compromised for some reason, that's going to take priority over growth. Like, we'll pause everything to solve that. So in that sense, yes, if it's like a smaller issue, like, it is. We're very creator first. So if it's like, I guess that's a better way to put it. If a creator is having a problem all resources go towards solving it. Like, even if it's like one singular creator who's like, I didn't get my payout today. I don't know what's going on. I need to pay rent. We stop everything to, like, solve it. So in that sense, like, every creator matters to us, but if it's not like, creator facing, we'll probably prioritize growth.

[Emma Grede]

Totally. Do you have any type of, like, meditative or spiritual practice that you use?

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah. So I would say Berries is actually my meditation. Is that the only time my, like, brain completely shuts off? And from my here, it's because I like, perform in an athlete level where, like, I'm literally just not thinking anymore. I think that's a form of meditation. People tell me it is in terms of like, just spiritual activity. I don't know, like psychics. Psychics.

[Emma Grede]

That count?

[Lucy Guo]

That count.

[Emma Grede]

Are your parents so proud of you now?

[Lucy Guo]

They are proud. Yeah. I think it's a mix of proud and like, you know, Asian parents always just be like, do better.

[Emma Grede]

So even now.

[Lucy Guo]

Oh, yeah. I think my dad sent me like 100 texts and I'm just like, dad, I love you too.

[Emma Grede]

At least you're answering the text now. That's. That's the main thing. Are you super proud of yourself?

[Lucy Guo]

I think that I am happy and I think this is what a lot of successful people will say, but they are always trying to do more right. And I'm very competitive with myself. So I just want to continue to be challenged and beat those challenges. If I were. To be honest, the only thing I'm really proud about is winning number one in the Barry's All Stars competition. Because I really broke my body for that. That's probably my proudest thing of like. Like, I'm more proud of that than this, like, new title for sure.

[Emma Grede]

Well, listen, I will change my introduction.

[Lucy Guo]

I'm not. Okay.

[Emma Grede]

I was like the Barry's All Star number one Lucy.

[Lucy Guo]

Here she is. Literally had to do like three to seven classes a day to get that number one title. But I'm really proud.

[Emma Grede]

I'm going to tell everyone we know that we need to change the way we're talking about you forever. This is amazing. All I have left for you is a very quick, fast round. Okay. Okay, here we go. The rapid fire. I should say. What is the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?

[Lucy Guo]

I go to Barry's.

[Emma Grede]

And the last thing you do at night?

[Lucy Guo]

I answer slack. Like, I answer the last slack messages I have and I close it out.

[Emma Grede]

That is very unrelaxing. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life?

[Lucy Guo]

In my business life, I would say I'm looking forward to building out the Pendek tools and I really want to build our first like passes unicorn. So for those that don't know, you know, like a creator that's like worth a billion dollars. Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Yes. Yeah. Let me know who that is. And what are you aspiring for in your personal life?

[Lucy Guo]

I think in my personal life, I guess cheesy, but like, find love.

[Emma Grede]

Nothing cheesy about it. I won't kiss eventually. You know, it's like kind of the time. Like, that's when it happens.

[Lucy Guo]

Yeah.

[Emma Grede]

Why not? Maybe that swipe up will result in something. Who knows?

[Lucy Guo]

Maybe. Oh, definitely not.

[Emma Grede]

That one.

[Lucy Guo]

That one? No.

[Emma Grede]

That one not. She's like, no, girl. That's just a swipe up. I love that. What is something you valued when you were starting out in your career that you don't anymore?

[Lucy Guo]

I think something I valued when I was starting to. When I started off my career, I don't anymore was, and I hate to say it, but like, praise. I think that like, as teal fellows, which is like where I'm going all the way back to, like, we really felt like we, like made it in the world because of all that praise. And then I realized, like, praise doesn't mean you've actually done anything in your career, but it definitely got into like all of our heads. Yes.

[Emma Grede]

Very important. It would do. What's something that you value now that you didn't back in the day?

[Lucy Guo]

I think I value freedom. I can't really explain it, but back in the day I felt like I was like, trying. I was doing things to prove my parents wrong and everyone wrong. And now I feel like I have nothing really left to prove except to myself, which feels very freeing because it means I get to work on like whatever I want. With all my previous companies, it was like I didn't care about the idea. I was just like, build something big. It could be in anything. Right. Didn't need to be passionate about it. And now I get to focus on what makes me happy.

[Emma Grede]

That's a really great answer. You have nothing to prove, that's for sure. Congratulations on your success, my darling. I'm so happy to have you. It was done. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddy Sprung Keyser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Salouja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks go to Britney Smith, Sydney Ford. My teams at Jonesworks and wne Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Shuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Mecol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can dm me at Aspire with Emma greed. Greed is spelled g r e d e. That's Aspire A s p I r e with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emagreed me.