B (3:36)

It was such a pleasure to be with you.

A (3:38)

I'm really, really happy. Besides the fact that you are just another lovely English person that I get to speak to today, I cannot tell you, I feel like watching your Instagram, listening to other podcasts that you've been on, I have learned so, so, so much. And I'm really excited today to be able to share some of what you talk about. And I think that so much of what you talk about is really, really misunderstood. You are a doctor and a neuroscientist, but you've also, you've got this whole career as an executive coach. How did those two things link together?

B (4:13)

Well, I actually changed career during the financial crisis, so about 15, 16 years ago, and I didn't have a niche. Everybody else that was coaching was either an experienced business person and I'd just been an NHS doctor, or they were a psychologist. And that was very accepted as, you know, having transferable skills to coaching. But as a psychiatrist, I was kind of like out there on my own. And then I realized that there were unprecedented levels of stress that I could help with people becoming so stressed that they were actually having heart attacks. I worked with a bank where people were actually dropping dead on the trading floor. The mind body connection became a really crucial factor for businesses to understand to save the lives of their employees.

A (4:58)

And when, you know, I talk all the time about living in the culture as we do now, that we are under more stress than any other time. And I really, truly believe that. Do you think that that's true? And more specifically for women, do you think that that's true?

B (5:17)

I think it's true in general. So I think we're kind of like lurching from one crisis to another. So I mentioned the financial crisis. Obviously we've had the pandemic, but generally levels of mental illness are higher than ever and not just at the extreme end with clinical diagnoses like schizophrenia and depression, but stress and anxiety, it's just so prevalent in society. And I don't like to make too many generalizations about the differences between men and women, but women inevitably are multitasking. They're running businesses and having to be usually the main carer for the family. And I think there's a big case of women putting themselves last and looking after everyone else. So the time for protecting your resilience and managing your stress is tricky.

A (6:07)

It really is tricky. I wanted to ask you, why is it that women are more likely to experience anxiety or depression or stress or burnout? Like, what's actually happening in the female brain?

B (6:20)

I think it is what I just said, which is that you're the main carer, whether it's aging parents, whether it's young children. It's almost like you're not just running your own diary or calendar, you're running, like, five people's. And inevitably it makes you put yourself last. But it's kind of like that thing about put your oxygen mask on first. If you look after yourself, you're actually helping your family and loved ones potentially with more ease.

A (6:45)

I want to understand a little bit more about the brain and women specifically. I feel like I've always been. You know, I don't know if this is my own upbringing or just what I've experienced. But, you know, men are very different from women. I think we all know that. But is there something in the brain that makes that true?

B (7:02)

Not really. So let me give you an analogy. Like if there was a room with 100 people in it, 50 men and 50 women, and you ask them to line up in order of height. It wouldn't be like all the men are taller and all the women are shorter. There'd be a little bit in the middle where there are some tall women and some shorter men. So that's kind of like how it is in the brain. There are a few subtle differences. One of them, interestingly, is in social settings, women are better able to remember names and faces. So it's kind of that bonding aspect. But like I said, not all men and all women. It's very much kind of in the middle. There's a big mixture, and then there are outliers at either end.

A (7:44)

That's so interesting. So it's not true that, you know, men are from Mars and women are from Venus. We're basically the same. And culture and experience is different in.

B (7:54)

Terms of, like, romantic relationships and dating. I think that probably is really true.

A (7:58)

Oh, we're gonna get There later. We have to. Now you said that we have to get there later. But there's nothing that actually makes us in the brain entirely different.

B (8:06)

No, no. And I think it's social conditioning is the thing that actually makes it different. So, for example, if you have a ramp with a toddler crawling up it, and they're either dressed in blue or pink, which makes you think they're a girl or a boy, people will go to stop the girl from getting to the edge quicker than they'll go to stop a child dressed in blue going to the edge.

A (8:29)

Right.

B (8:29)

So that's what kind of starts.

A (8:31)

It's like social conditioning. But. But stress. I mean, you talk a lot about the connection between stress, the brain, the body, because stress, it really does manifest very differently in women's bodies. Isn't that completely right?

B (8:44)

I think it's how you deal with it, isn't it? So if anyone suppresses stress, it can show up as symptoms in the body. And it also depends how you articulate it. In a way, as women, we probably do have the advantage of the fact that we actually talk to each other and share emotional stuff. And that is one way of kind of getting it out of your brain, body system.

A (9:06)

Is that like a practical step that you advise for people, lowering stress? Like, just talking about it.

B (9:12)

Talking about it. If you don't have someone to talk to, journaling it, so you're kind of still getting out of your system. So mentally talking or writing, and then physically, you can actually sweat the stress hormone cortisol out of your body.

A (9:26)

Also like working out. Yeah. So if you are more likely to work out, you will absolutely lower your stress levels.

B (9:33)

Exercise absolutely helps with stress levels. However, paradoxically, high intensity exercise can actually spike the levels of the stress hormone cortisol. So if you're a type A personality, then the likelihood is you're more likely to say, I'll go, and absolutely, like, you know, pound it at the gym. That's probably counterproductive. So more gentle exercise, walking, yoga.

A (9:57)

What other little hacks do you have to lower stress levels? Because I feel like there are some things, you know, you're either a journaler or you're not. You're either somebody who has, you know, can share their feelings at ease with other people. You either have an exercise routine, but what do you say to people that are carrying a lot of stress in terms of. These are the practical things that you can do every day just to lower your stress levels?

B (10:19)

I think breath work is really important. So in terms, when we say lower Your stress levels, that's quite like a broad term. People might find it hard to understand, like, how does stress show up for me, you know, what can I do about it? But I like to talk about resetting your nervous system because your brain is kind of invisible to you. It feels quite hard to access. But the peripheral nervous system, which is all the nerves and the rest of your body, that falls into two states. The parasympathetic state, which is rest and relax and digest, and the sympathetic state, which is fright flight.

A (10:53)

Right.

B (10:53)

And so it's a bit easier, I think, to understand if I'm in fright flight, what can I do to get myself, you know, back into the rest and relaxed state? And breath work is probably the easiest way to access that. So it can be anything from just slowing down your breathing or just noticing your breathing and checking whether your exhale is longer than your inhale. Cause that's more relaxing. It's all signaling to your brain that I'm relaxed. And you can, you know, you can impact that by changing your breathing.

A (11:22)

So you're not talking about, like a long meditation here. You mean like a moment in the day when you're feeling stress, practicing noticing your breath in that moment?

B (11:32)

Yeah, noticing your breath. Maybe trying to just, like, do some slower, deeper breathing. Maybe trying to focus on your exhale being longer than your inhale. And there are, you know, several other types of breathwork that you can practice if you particularly like them.

A (11:46)

So we should all be journaling more. We should all be talking about our feelings more and practicing breath work. What else? What else should we be doing?

B (11:54)

I mean, staying hydrated is a really simple thing.

A (11:56)

It's a really simple thing.

B (11:58)

Yeah. But it's also easy to forget, right. When you're rushing about. Stress itself dries out your system. So it makes your hair drier, your skin drier. When you are thirsty, you're already way more dehydrated than is good for your brain. So 1 to 3% dehydration can actually stop you thinking at your best. So, you know, keeping yourself hydrated is just such a small but important thing.

A (12:25)

Wow. I mean, it feels like such simple. Such simple stuff. So why do you think that we're all walking around so chronically stressed if we could seemingly manage it so easily?

B (12:35)

I think it's just how much information overload we're bombarded with. If you read a newspaper, the whole newspaper, today's paper, if you read it, that would be more information than someone would receive in their lifetime a hundred years ago. And if you Think, like, actually we're not even sitting down and reading a whole newspaper. No, we're just all sorts of social media. All the other ways that technology means we can be contacted, text message, email, perhaps, lots of people around you talking at you, all the things that you have on your mind, the things that you feel you need to do, like exercise that maybe you feel guilty about because you're not doing it, all the meetings that you have to attend in a day, it's a lot. And the brain has a natural filtering mechanism, but in a way, it helps us to survive on a basic level. It doesn't really help us to thrive necessarily. We need that time to step back and think about what we actually want our life to feel like, what we want to achieve, what we want to bring in. And then you can help to direct that filtering mechanism a bit better. But if you're constantly rushed and stressed and just trying to keep up, it's hard to really make your life like how you want it.

A (13:48)

And I totally get that. But you're on Instagram, you partake in social media. So how do you create the limits that are healthy, given everything that you know?

B (13:58)

So there was a conversation that I was in with a load of very busy business people where they sort of all sat around and agreed with each other that, you know, the phone is really the problem. And I said, the phone's not the problem, you're the problem. So, yes, I am very active on Instagram, but I. I love your Instagram, by the way. Thank you.

A (14:16)

I think it's. So. It's one of, like, the most useful accounts to follow.

B (14:19)

Thanks.

A (14:20)

It really is.

B (14:21)

I'm definitely much more about sending out potentially useful information than receiving. And I'm very, very careful about who I follow and therefore what will come into my. My stream. But also, I don't spend a lot of time looking at Instagram because you've.

A (14:36)

Made a decision about what's important and how you want to live and going back to that aspect of things.

B (14:42)

Yeah. Like one of the things someone said about me. Actually, there's two things I think are really interesting about how the world is now. One is when you spend time with Tara, she doesn't even look at her phone. I'm like, shouldn't that be normal?

A (14:54)

That's a huge compliment.

B (14:54)

Shouldn't that be normal?

A (14:55)

Yes. It's also really good manners. And I actually chalk it up to manners. I think it's really rude to be doing anything I would know sooner, you know, walk off and get a drink in the middle of a conversation as I will pick up my phone, it's just not good. But we become accustomed to that being okay. You know, you look at a table of people having dinner next to you, and they're all on their phones, and that's all right. It's just not all right with me.

B (15:17)

I just wouldn't even have my phone on the table.

A (15:19)

You shouldn't. It shouldn't come out. It shouldn't be visible. Cause that in of itself is a distraction. I mean, that's how I'm raising my kids. We don't have phones at the table. It's just really simple. Yeah, we put phones in a bowl as soon as we get in the house. And that's just where the phones live. Because when I grew up, like, the phone lived in a place. Cause it was on a wire. It didn't stop you from communicating. I was the most Chatty Cathy ever and still am. But it just doesn't need to be an extension of my arm. I don't think it's good. It's just not good manners, and it's not good for our health. And I think that we all know that. But people find it so difficult to make that decision, because the idea that you might not know the exact piece of news in the exact moment is really troubling for people. And I think it comes back down to. To this idea of how we're all taught that multitasking and information overload, like, that's the right way to live now. And I think quite the opposite. Like, I actually think about multitasking as sabotaging women's productivity. Is there any. Is there any truth to that?

B (16:17)

Yeah, so there's this. I think this is a myth. Tell me if you've heard this. Women are better at multitasking than men.

A (16:23)

Oh, that's what everybody says.

B (16:24)

So that puts you in a position where you feel like because you're supposed to be good at it, you should do it. But the fact is, every time you multitask, you are doing each task less well than you're capable of doing that task alone. And I want to connect that back to the whole phone thing, which is that, you know, what's troubling to me is that loneliness is so bad for you. But we're not putting our priorities into engaging with people. If I'm with someone like you or, you know, a friend or a loved one, I want to give you my full attention. I don't want my phone to distract me.

A (16:58)

I want to move on and talk A little bit about success because it's something that I'm obsessed with. And I'm obsessed with the way that you can, you know, that. That your brain can make you successful. Like the way you think, how you speak to yourself. You know, we talk a lot in this culture about mindset and manifestation, but what is one thing that our brains do that shape our success? Like, I'm trying to understand, like, what we don't know about the way that our brains work.

B (17:28)

Yeah. So the first thing I will say is that the brain is the CEO of your body. You know, it's basically running everything. And even though it's so small and you can't see it, it's really important to understand how powerful it is in everything that you do. And one of the strongest gearings of the brain, which is a very primal survival mechanism, is called loss aversion or loss avoidance. And that means that our brain is wired to avoid loss or danger two and a half times as much as it is to gain a reward. So the most classic example of this from behavioral economics is that if you parked your car outside today and you walked into the office and on the way you found a $50 note on the ground. Yeah. You'd pick it up, you'd be quite pleased, you might keep it, you might give it to a homeless person, but then by the time you get to your desk, you've kind of forgotten about that. If you realized by the time you got to your desk that you'd actually dropped $50 out of your pocket, you would go back, you would try and look for it. If you didn't find it, you would berate yourself, you would still be thinking about that when you were lying in bed at night.

A (18:34)

Definitely.

B (18:35)

If you think about that, then your brain thinks it's doing the right thing by you to keep alerting you to the danger of taking risk. But to be really successful, there's an element of having to be a risk taker and taking healthy risks. Yes. And, you know, sort of understanding when it's a risk that is worth taking and you know when it's not. But every time you start to go and do that, whatever that risk is, whether it's, you know, dating or in business, the hippocampus and the amygdala, parts of the brain that control memory and emotion, will get together and remind you of all the previous times that you took a similar risk and it didn't work out. So without you really realizing, your brain will be saying, emma, that's not a good idea. Because remember this when that happened and that will just non consciously make you think you shouldn't take a risk. You have to intentionally override that gearing of the brain to thrive rather than just survive in the modern day.

A (19:36)

I mean, I love the way that you explain that. So rather than our brains default into what has worked out to keep us safe, our brain is actually going to default to the fear piece and it's gonna repeat that. So you've gotta very purposefully override it. And what do you do? Like how do you purposefully override it?

B (19:57)

So usually there's a theme to what you're afraid of and you have to get down to the belief that's under the thoughts that you're having. If you can see some kind of pattern to what you usually think, what usually makes you think, well, don't do that. Then if you dig down to what is it that I believe about myself that makes me think I shouldn't do that, you know, that I shouldn't, you know, go into the dating game again or I shouldn't like try to start up my own business. And you know, you may need the help of a therapist or a friend to work this out, or you might be able to do it yourself through journaling or reflection. Then if you say, you know, I don't deserve that thing or I don't feel like things like that happen to people like me, you can create a positive affirmation that's the opposite of that belief. And you can repeat that so many times that that gets wired into your brain as the truth more than this negative belief that you have about yourself.

A (20:49)

So you're talking about having almost like a daily affirmation. But you need to understand what that fear is, where it comes from, what the patterns are that hold you back all the time. And then you've got to find some type of way and mantra to get over that.

B (21:07)

Yeah, and another thing that's a really good one and I actually think you're such a symbol of, is find someone that you feel is like you, who is an example of someone that's achieved what you want to.

A (21:19)

Yeah, I feel like I've constantly done that in my life and it's really helpful because you're like, well, if they can, I can. And that idea of finding someone who's a little bit like you, similar background from the same place, you know, like has a career that you want, that can be so unbelievably useful.

B (21:39)

Yeah. And you so useful, you just existing and doing this podcast is doing that for so many people.

A (21:44)

Oh, I really hope so, because that was my whole. You know, I've always understood that I have immense power. Right. I was taught as a kid a way of speaking to myself. And you know, my mom would refuse to have like negative self talk. She did not use that language. Cause in East London we didn't use that language back then. But that's essentially what she was telling my sisters and I. Right. You can do anything and you have to believe in yourself and you have to tell yourself that. So I was brought up talking into a bathroom mirror with maybe like four little heads around us. Cause we all had to get ready in the same bathroom. But it was there, right? It was like weaved into my way of thinking. But that is so hard for people to learn. And so in your practice as an executive coach and when you get very leaders and CEOs and people that are doing these big jobs and big careers, does that come up? Is that something that you are regularly teaching? Like have a mantra, have some set of affirmations and speak to yourself? Well, like I'm trying to understand how important that is. Because if you're not wired that way, it's a really hard thing to learn. And honestly, you might feel a bit stupid doing it.

B (22:56)

Yeah. And I think a really important thing that I've learned for myself, which I'd love to share, is that those people that I coach who are, you know, some of them are billionaires, you know, they're super successful, have the same doubts and vulnerabilities that anyone does.

A (23:11)

No doubt.

B (23:12)

So important to know. Because if you don't know them, it would feel like they don't, but they do. It may be more subtle the way I talk to them than saying, okay, let's create an affirmation. But I am kind of affirming them really subtly all the time to help them get to this place of believing that they are the person that they want to be.

A (23:41)

When I was a teenager, I worked a paper round in East London to make money. I also worked in a deli and I made sure that I made the best sandwiches so that you were sure to come back. It wasn't glamorous, but it gave me a sense of ownership and pride that I will never forget. When I think back to that time, what stands out isn't just the money. It was the freedom. Having something that was mine on my own terms gave me confidence and it showed me that I could create opportunities without ever waiting for permission. In college, I was always looking for ways to earn on the side. At one point I was selling T shirts to friends for Saturday night outings. Another one of my first side hustles was working in local shops, and while they weren't big businesses, it actually taught me how small efforts can really add up. I met so many people through that and it gave me this network I never expected. Sometimes the people you meet through your hustle are just as valuable as the money. And that valuable lesson is actually something I've heard echoed from the people using Airbnb to host their home when they're away from as a side hustle of their own. What I hear from hosts all the time is that it's not just about the extra income. Yes, it can help with bills, savings, investing in your next big idea, but it's also about those connections, meeting people from all over the world, opening your door, and sometimes gaining new friends in the process. And here's the thing, you don't need to build an entire business plan or quit your job. You might already have the start of it. A spare bedroom, a guest house or even your own home. While you're away, you instead of it sitting empty, it could be earning for you. So here's my challenge. Take a look at what you've got. Maybe it's that spare room you walk past every day. Maybe it's your apartment. While you're traveling, don't overlook the opportunities right in front of you. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host swapping for natural options is a must if you want to feel good and glow from the inside out. And Primally Pure has harnessed the power of natural ingredients in their complete line of non toxic beauty products. They're rooted in time tested traditional perspectives that honor ancient wisdom, animal based products and clean living education to guide you in creating non toxic rhythms and transformative results in your daily life. They are wildly passionate about providing research backed results driven products without compromising your health. Backed by thousands of 5 star reviews and unbelievable before and after photos, their products are proven to create positive change in your skin and sense of wellness from skin, body, baby, hair and home. And you can't forget their cult following natural deodorant and tallow skincare products, Primally Pure products are handcrafted with real raw ingredients to optimize your results and your overall health. Use code ASPIRE to get 15% off your primary pure purchase. That's www.P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y P-U-R-E.com and use code ASPIRE at checkout for 15% off your order. You talk a lot about intuition and sort of gut feeling. And I want to just go back to something that you said and understanding how our brain works around this idea of fear. Because how do you know or how do you tell the difference between a fear that is protecting you and something that's holding you back? Because our brain is doing some good work, right? It's like, stay away from that fire over there that's going to hurt you. So, like, what are the differences and how do we learn to tell the difference? When do I know to override what my brain might be telling me?

B (27:15)

It's a really good question and it's quite a subtle one. So I actually like to use slightly different words that are often used interchangeably. So intuition and instinct.

A (27:28)

And those two things are different because I think I probably mix them up.

B (27:31)

I think everyone does.

A (27:32)

I think my instinct and my intuition are the same things. I think, yeah, I would think that and my gut feeling. I'll just put the whole lot together.

B (27:39)

Like, you know, I would think that too.

A (27:41)

But if we set us straight, please.

B (27:43)

I mean, I think again, you know, you could choose the words that you use, but it's important to have a different word for your intuition, which is your wisdom that can guide you really positively and an instinct or shortcut that's there to protect you. But actually, you know, might be fear based. So, I mean, the easiest one is when your intuition isn't coming from fear and, you know, it's a really positive one. Like, yeah, I'm going to take that leap. I'm going to do that. That's an easier one to follow. But there's one caveat to that, that I'll come back when it's fear based. You can tell, but that's when you either have to ask yourself, is this fear based for a good reason that I shouldn't take a risk, or is it fear based and actually I need to learn how to override this if you can't do it for yourself. Speaking to someone that you trust is always helpful if you're learning the skill of being able to do it for yourself. It's often really useful to think, well, what would I say to my best friend or my sister, oh, I love that if she came to me with this issue? And if you're able to take that one level of, you know, perspective away from being kind of in the mix of the emotions yourself, you may be able to Come up with the answer yourself. But there's another exercise that I really love, which is if I'm sitting here now, I would say, you know, I'm Tara, I'm this age, I'm dressed like this. This is the dilemma that I'm facing. And then I get up and I walk seven steps forward and I turn around and I look at where I was sitting and I say, I'm Tara. And I say, the age that is seven years older than I am. And then I say, this is the answer to your dilemma. And I just take it from my intuition, but it's me seven years in advance.

A (29:24)

Wow, I love that.

B (29:26)

Usually when I do this, which and I, you know, I keep it for really special occasions and I've shared it with some of my closest friends, it actually makes you cry freely because your intuition is actually so beautiful and like, if you can just step away from yourself and all of the self doubt and the, you know, kind of negative talk, there's actually a really beautiful guiding light in you that you can get access to when you just step out of yourself for a second.

A (29:52)

Why is it so hard for people to listen to their intuition, do you think?

B (29:56)

You know, you've obviously been extremely fortunate in the way that you've been brought up by your mum, but a lot of people have suffered criticism and ridicule and been diminished as a child. And that gets ingrained into your brain and it stays there and it runs a lot of your life without you even realizing. So again, if you can separate yourself from that voice and realize that, you know, maybe that's a person that in your childhood that didn't big you up and make you feel like you can do anything and be the best version of yourself. Then when you do have a negative self thought, if you say, that's actually not my voice, that's, that's the voice of that person that didn't believe in me. That's again another way of kind of separating yourself from this.

A (30:38)

Can you strengthen your intuition? Like, is it something. If you feel. Actually, I never listen to my intuition because I don't feel like it's there. Like, can you actually. Is there a way to strengthen intuition?

B (30:49)

Yes. So I think journaling is a really good way. So when you have, and this is the caveat that I wanted to come back to, when you have a dilemma and your intuition and your logic aren't aligned, people will feel safer going with their logic. Like that's the sensible thing to do, that makes rational sense.

A (31:07)

Oh, I think I'm the opposite to that. So am I. I would never go against my intuition. Even if the logic stays different, I'm like, no, I'm all intuition.

B (31:16)

But we've both learned to trust that. So we're. Let's speak to the person that hasn't learned to trust that yet. So I think I was naturally intuitive, so I wasn't starting from a zero place. But I decided to hone it through neuroplasticity, which is the ability that we all have to change and learn and grow. So I would write down in my journal every time I had a decision to make where logic and intuition weren't aligned. And what I encourage people to do is starting in a low risk decision. Try going with your intuition. Even if logic doesn't, you know, it doesn't run by your logic. And just see how that pans out. And then write down what happened. Keep doing this. Give yourself that evidence that when I go with my intuition, it actually works out better. And then take it to like a slightly higher risk situation and just keep learning and growing. I think reading back over your journal entries and seeing when you did and didn't go with your intentions. Yeah, it's really.

A (32:11)

I mean, I find reading back over my journals probably one of the best tools that I have. Because a, it's the truth. You know, there's no room for messing around in your own journal. If you are, then that's a whole different problem. But, you know, it's like it's an accurate account of actually what happened. And you can go back and look at what you were feeling, why you did something, and you can make changes. Like, I go in and I kind of star and I'm like, that is something I didn't need. Like, I'm going to purposefully do that differently next time. And it's kind of like what you're saying, this idea of standing up, going seven years in your future and talking back to yourself, it's like a way of like, it's almost like future journaling. Like it's. That's a really interesting paradigm, actually. Yeah, I bet it works. I'm going to try that.

B (33:00)

It really works.

A (33:01)

I bet it works.

B (33:02)

There's another thing that I only discovered through a documentary filmmaker, which was a letter to yourself at a different age. So you literally, you pick a number out of a hat, or you open a book to a certain page and then whatever that number is, and it could be anything from 0 to 100, you write a letter to yourself at that age. I was asked to be part of this documentary as a neuroscientist. But then I decided to do the letter as well. I watched the documentary, I did the letter, and again, what really comes out is that we have this beautiful guiding light in us, but most of the time we're just too busy.

A (33:41)

So why do you think that we have undervalued emotions and intuition? And can you just. I guess my question is, how does reconnecting with your intuition make you a better decision maker?

B (33:55)

Big question. So basically, if we go back to our evolution, there was a time that we had the limbic system, which is the more intuitive sort of primal part of our brain, and we had a very, very thin outer cortex. The outer cortex is the more rational part of the brain and it controls, it includes the part of the brain where we can articulate speech. So up until that point, we couldn't speak, but we could grunt and we could gesture and we could make cave art, but we couldn't speak once we could speak. So I call it the cognitive revolution. And it's to do with the fact that we made fire and then we could cook meat and we could eat more protein more efficiently. Then our guts shrank and the outer cortex of the brain grew. Once you could speak, that was the quick, you know, the most efficient way of kind of telling you what I'm, what I mean. And so you would then pay less attention to my body language, my, my micro muscular facial expression, the impact of like the hormones I'm experiencing that you could potentially share either through our menstrual cycles or through stress.

A (35:01)

So, so we literally evolved there and.

B (35:04)

We'Ve, we've then undervalued the things that actually got us there. And then if you fast forward obviously to now, there's, there's technology, there's data. I would say up until 30 years ago, before we had really sophisticated scanning technology, logic was just, you know, put on a pedestal and emotions and intuition were really, it was questioned whether they even really were tangible. Now that we can scale scan healthy brains because a lot of neuroscience was just based on what happens when something goes wrong, like there's a stroke or a brain tumor. Now that we can scan healthy brains, we can actually see what happens when you experience certain emotions and how that changes your decision making. And we can see that intuition is actually a tangible thing. I'm hopeful that, you know, that's changing in a positive way. Particularly now with the very sharp rise in AI and ChatGPT and stuff. I think going back to what makes us human is gonna be more Important than ever.

A (35:58)

I couldn't agree with you more, and I really wanna touch on that. But something that you said is very interesting. So you're talking about we can train our intuition simply by using it, by trying to use it and getting higher and higher stakes about that. So that is like rewiring the way that we think. And when you talk about neuroplasticity, I really wanna understand that a little bit more. I see myself as someone who is always in learning mode. I was terrible at school and so I've had to do all of my learning once I got out of there. But some of us feel more ability to learn than others. And I'm not just talking about, you know, things that are useful in our professional lives. I'm talking about, like even thinking about how you rewire yourself to have less negative thinking, for example. But I want to understand the science and how our brains work. And if we all have the ability to learn all the time.

B (36:55)

Yeah.

A (36:55)

Or as well as others.

B (36:56)

Yes. So neuroplasticity is this ability of the brain to grow and change throughout life. And we used to think that by the time you were about 18 and you stopped physically growing, that your brain became fixed. This was like, accepted as facts in neuroscience and neurology. Since we've had that sophisticated scanning technology, we can see that the brain actively grows and changes till we're about 25. But from 25 onwards, if you force your brain to learn things and you seek novelty and you're curious, then the brain can remain really flexible, or what we call plastic in science terms. So if you think about your kids from 0 to 2, they went from being completely helpless and vulnerable and not able to do anything for themselves, to walking, talking, being able to control their bladder and bowels.

A (37:45)

Vulnerable.

B (37:46)

Unbelievable.

A (37:46)

Unbelievable.

B (37:47)

Watching children at that age is just like a miracle.

A (37:51)

It really is.

B (37:51)

Yeah. And then in teenage, there's quite a lot of pruning of the brain to make it sophisticated enough to live an adult life. You know, to be social, to find a partner to reproduce. And that goes on for longer than we used to think. It goes on till about 25, which actually kind of explains why children stay often quite financially dependent on their parents till older than 18. You know, used to be like, give your 18 year old a briefcase and send them out into the world.

A (38:19)

Now, not so much.

B (38:20)

Not so much. And then after that, look, you know, if you married your childhood sweetheart and you've got a job for life that you actually quite like, and that stability is good for you, fine, you Know, you'll plateau, your brain won't shrink, but it won't grow. But if you want to improve the highest functions of your brain, what we call the executive functions, things like being able to think flexibly, think creatively, solve complex problems, access your intuition, override your biases, then you do need to be engaging in some form of learning. It doesn't need to be formal. It can be the fact that you travel and you meet people who think really differently to you. It can even be things like take a different way to work so that you just maybe see a different building or a sculpture or something. But I have to say that things like learning a language or learning a musical instrument, they are so intense for your brain that it really forces your brain to change and grow. And like I said, you don't just get the benefits of learning Spanish, you get other benefits in your brain by continually learning.

A (39:26)

And do you think that, I mean, I've always thought that just for myself, you know, I'm interested in learning, but do you think there are, are the reasons to continue learning? Like, I mean, when I say that, I mean are there more social reasons that you should continue to learn or is it just about, you know, self realization?

B (39:49)

No, there's definitely other reasons. So, because, because when you learn something, it's probably like quite a specific thing. But by keeping your brain flexible, you're also going to improve things like resilience, creativity, access to your intuition. Yeah, it's basically the difference between doing kind of having all your days, being quite the same for long periods of time, to being open to change, because that's going to make you more of a healthy risk taker as well and.

A (40:21)

Makes you more successful because the more open to change you are, the better. And I think that a lot of us are kind of kidding ourselves around this AI piece of life right now, thinking, well, I've got to be really open to the change. But I'm interested to understand how you think this revolution in AI is going to impact our brains right now. Are you, are you really? Small question for you. Well, because I think that, look, from where I come from, you know, I can't hide from AI. Right. It's like I'm a business person and I need to make sure that I fundamentally understand AI as it relates to my businesses. I'm a mother of four. I want my kids to, you know, to embrace AI and to think about how, what they're learning at school and what is the usefulness of what they're learning. School and how do you need to supplement that. There's also this huge worry that I have that I'm not thinking deeply in some ways that I would usually, because maybe I'm going to chatgpt that thing, or maybe I'm going to use one of these really sophisticated programs to do the work for me in areas where usually I might well have had to sit down for 20 minutes and have a think. So I just wanted to understand where your opinion is on it.

B (41:30)

Okay. I mean, it's going to be a huge adjustment. I think we've kind of known it's coming for a while. I actually did a TEDx talk in 2015 about the future of humanity with AI and whether we would become like hybrid robots and stuff.

A (41:44)

I look back now, I'm going to look that up.

B (41:47)

Honestly, it amazes me that I knew all that stuff then because I feel like I know less now. But also in the last two years, the rate of change of technology has really, like, gone exponential. So it's not going away. We do have to accept that it is going to completely change the way that we live and work. Trying to stay up to date with it and understanding it is really important. But I think the bigger question is, what is it about myself that's going to still be of value? What can I do that ChatGPT can't? And I have to say that's becoming scarily smaller and smaller. But one of the things that I researched for my new book was, is art. What makes us human? Big question.

A (42:32)

Big question.

B (42:33)

And I found out some really beautiful things. So we know that we made cave paintings and we danced and told stories, and we sort of think that cave paintings are the first evidence of humans making art. But actually before that, we adorned ourselves. We carved into like ostrich eggshells and stuff. But way before that, we made tools that were more beautiful and symmetrical than they had to be to do their job. So there is this innate love of beauty and this wish to be creative that's very much part of human existence. And I think things like that and intuition are where we need to turn our attention.

A (43:13)

Because I think I've heard you talk a little bit about creativity and how important it is for us to embrace creativity with some kind of regularity in our lives.

B (43:22)

Yeah, I mean, there's this incredible statistic which is that if you engage in the arts and culture every two months, so six times a year, then your risk of dying goes down by 40%.

A (43:34)

No, it doesn't.

B (43:35)

If you only go twice a year, your risk of dying goes down by 14% and there are so many free like sculpture parks and galleries.

A (43:43)

That's the way I'm getting my kids to the galleries. Then you're going to die, basically. You have to come here with me or you'll die. That's a crazy statistic. Why is that?

B (43:55)

I just think we don't understand how beneficial these things are to our mental health, our physical health and our longevity. And there's this new area of research called neuro aesthetics which is about art and beauty and creativity and how it contributes to our health and all those aspects. And yeah, that's why I asked this question. Is art what makes us human? Because I think we've kind of undervalued how important that. And nature. Nature is an art form also.

A (44:23)

And I love that you put those two things together because for so many of us, I mean, I don't think I'm artistically talented in any way, shape or form, but I do feel this deep connection to nature and I love that you're able to put those two things together. And it is, you know, in so many ways. When we certainly when I'm busy and overwhelmed, they're the first things to go. Right. It's like I'm not taking a two hour walk outside if I can barely fit my work in. And I'm certainly, you know, canceling a play that I was supposed to go and see if, you know, something is going off with my kids. You know, it's just they are the things that just leave your schedule. But you're saying quite the opposite. We need those things to keep our brains well and to keep our, to keep us alive quite literally.

B (45:10)

Literally. I mean nature is the palette that we've existed in since the beginning of humanity. So it's, it's primarily a place that we feel awe and wonder and it really like rejuvenates like all of our hormones and everything. I mean, if you walk past certain trees, they release chemicals called phytoncides that actually trigger the release of natural killer cells in your immune system. So when I'm hearing you say I'm not going to go for a two hour walk when I'm completely slammed at work, that's when I need you to go more than ever. And maybe it doesn't have to be two hours, maybe it could be half an hour. Worst case scenario, if you have to take your laptop and go and do your emails, but do them in a park rather than sit in the office. Yeah, yeah. And also bird song lowers your stress levels and your Blood pressure, because birds only sing when there are no predators around. So even though it's such a joyful thing to think about, makes you feel.

A (46:02)

Safe, the next time I hear, tweet, tweet, tweet, I'll think about it so differently. That's so interesting. But do you. So tell me, for you, in your life, how do you bring the arts into your life? Because I'm sure as people are listening to this, they're like, how? Like, how is that gonna actually work?

B (46:19)

Yeah. So for me, I absolutely love the ballet. It's like my favorite thing in the whole world. So I try to go to that as frequently as I can. But the other thing is that. So you said you're not. You don't think you're artistically talented?

A (46:32)

No.

B (46:32)

At all. Aesthetics says that it doesn't matter if you're good at it or not, you still get the same benefits.

A (46:37)

But isn't that such a mindset thing of me thinking because I'm not good at it, then I shouldn't really bother doing it? And you're saying the absolute opposite. It doesn't matter because A, I'd probably be in learning mode, which is good for my brain, and B, I'd be giving myself the, you know, the arts and the culture and that side of things that I really need for my survival and my health.

B (46:56)

And it's both making and beholding. So you can go to the ballet or you can dance around your living room. You can, you know, go and listen to a band or you can sing in the shower. So, yeah, I think that's. Those are small areas I would love to see people like bringing in to their life.

A (47:12)

But these things are habits, aren't they? And I feel like getting the right habits that support a healthy brain that support you. You don't say not being stressed.

B (47:24)

What do you.

A (47:24)

You say something else, which is so much nicer.

B (47:27)

Being emotionally regulated.

A (47:28)

Emotionally regulated, which is so much nicer. I used to think I needed a full drawer of makeup and at least 20 minutes to look presentable in the morning. But then I tried Merit, and now I'm done in five minutes. Merit is a minimalist beauty brand that's made to simplify your routine. It's for people who want to feel put together without spending a ton of time or energy. Their products are clean, vegan, and so easy to use. You genuinely can't mess them up, even half asleep. Lately, I've been reaching for Flush Balm every morning. It gives me the most natural looking flush and it blends like a dream. The Minimalist is another go to. It's part foundation, part concealer and it evens out my skin in seconds without feeling heavy and great skin serum. My skin just looks better and more hydrated every time I use it. Merit has made my mornings feel less rushed and more effortless, which I didn't really think was possible. It's time to simplify your morning. Head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. At its core, entrepreneurship is about vision, resilience and the courage to create something lasting, even in the face of enormous challenges. Bao Artist at War tells the remarkable true story of Joseph Bau, whose creativity and determination became his greatest tools of survival. Imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp, Bao was a gifted artist who risked his life to save others by forging documents. Even in the most impossible circumstances, he remained a creator, an animator, a poet and a romantic. His story is proof that ingenuity and imagination can be acts of resistance. The film also tells of one of history's most extraordinary love stories, Joseph's bond with Rebecca, a woman whose bravery matched his own. Like the entrepreneurs who turn vision into reality, Bao shows how creativity, resourcefulness and the will to build can endure even in the face of destruction. It opens September 26th. Visit baomovie.com to watch the trailer and learn more. You can also sign your organization up for group screenings. Again, that's Baumovie.com I want to talk to you a little bit about people at the start of their careers and thinking about habits and thinking about how you what you do and what you carry to create long term success. Can you talk to me a little bit about the right habits for long term success?

B (50:04)

I have to reiterate the foundational ones that I think are really important that you can't achieve success if you don't have these things right. And they are sleep, eating right, you know, being hydrated, not being sedentary, doing some form of exercise and managing your stress. Yeah, so I've spoken about all of those things a lot before, so I don't need to like deep dive into those ones, but I just need to.

A (50:27)

Remind us all they are the foundational things that all of us have to do. But I wonder if there are other things that have an outsized impact on your success and happiness once you've got the foundational things.

B (50:38)

Exactly. So once you've got those in place, then the things that come after that to like really set you up for success are being very tuned into your senses. So not acting like your body is just the vehicle that takes your brain around from meeting to meeting, but being very embodied, having that brain, body connection is like, hugely advantageous because, of course, when it is your career, logic is going to predominate. But actually there are. This is a simple kind of, you know, metaphor, but if we think about six ways of thinking, there's physicality, emotion, logic, creativity, motivation, and intuition.

A (51:17)

Right?

B (51:18)

And physicality is quite an easy one to actually tune into, but also easy to ignore. So people who do a lot of sport or exercise tend to be better at acknowledging biofeedback from their bodies. Like, you know, what's my body telling me when I get butterflies in my stomach? What's my body telling me when I get goosebumps? And then equally applying that to what am I picking up from your body language that could help me, you know, inform me to be. Just to have that edge over everybody that you're competing with to be successful in your career. Honing your intuition, I would definitely say, is another one. Spending that time in nature to. To be and to reflect rather than constantly multitasking and like, listening to a podcast or listening to music, like, actually having some time is a really essential way of managing your stress. And then I think a really, really important one that people underestimate as well is your tribe or your community. So who is around you, because that's pretty much a reflection of what you're going to be and achieve. So if the people around you are successful in the way that you want to be successful, it's more likely that you'll achieve that. If the people around you are not supportive of, you know, your values and goals and purpose, that's probably going to drag you down. So I would say there's the senses and physicality honing your intuition, the benefits of nature and the importance of who's in your community, those are like, the highest things to think about in terms of achieving whatever form of success that means for you.

A (52:53)

God, that's so interesting. I want to dig into this idea of the community that you have around you, because for so many people, they have an idea about themselves and what they want, but their circumstances, where they come from, where they live, means that they're perhaps not surrounded by the type of people that they might want to. And I definitely think growing up, for me, that was for sure the case. So what do you say to people that don't feel like they have the right people around them? Like, is that really holding them back and can they be successful anyway? What do you do? What do you do, Dr. Tara?

B (53:34)

Like what?

A (53:35)

What do you do?

B (53:36)

Yeah. So there's something called social contagion, which is that big themes of things like divorce and obesity are catching in a group. Now, of course, I'm not saying if your friend gets divorced, then dump them because you're going to get divorced. But I think what I am saying is if you think of a rose bush, it benefits from getting pruned to allow new flowers to blossom. And I also mentioned that in the teenage brain, some neural pathways get pruned out so that you can thicken the pathways that you need to succeed as an adult. Later in life, when people can experience things like they don't remember the sequence that events happened in, but their pathways for wisdom and judgment and decisiveness become super honed. So when people start to say to me, oh, I'm not remembering things like I used to, and that means my brain's declining, I say, focus on this positive that you have, you know, And I come from a culture where older people are really revered, so I've always actually kind of, you know, really respected and wanted that wisdom that will come later in life.

A (54:46)

Yes.

B (54:46)

And, you know, that's again, a way of looking at things which is quite counter to the cultures that we're in, where getting old is seen as bad.

A (54:53)

Yeah.

B (54:54)

So the way that I want to put it, you know, as nicely as I can, is that in the same way that I curate my social media feed, because I know how much impact it's having on my brain. I need to have people around me that have the same values and purpose and goals or, you know, are aligned with me and the things that are important to me, like spirituality. And if over time that diverges for people, that's okay. Like, you can just let them go, wish them well. It's not about, you know, dumping or ghosting or, like, taking it personally. It's just that we're all on a journey. We're all continually growing and changing. And it is really important from a neuroscience point of view, who you have around you, how they talk to you, how much psychological safety they give you, and, you know, what you contribute to them. So I think it is important to examine that.

A (55:50)

Yeah. And I would go a step further with that because I feel like, certainly as a leader, there's a responsibility that you have to the people that are around you in the way that you behave. Right. Like, I know if I come into the office in the morning and I go, morning, everyone, which I do every single day, and I Give people eye contact and I look at them and I smile, like, immediately. It changes the energy of. It changes the energy of a meeting when you walk in that way. And I don't know that we all have that. You talk about brain, body connection, but that awareness of how much you are impacted by other people and other people are impacted by you, and I think we probably do well to understand that a little bit more.

B (56:35)

Yeah. And as a leader, your behavior and your stress levels have more impact on the team than they do on each other. It's like the silverback gorilla. His stress levels affect the troupe of gorillas more.

A (56:48)

I know my team will be laughing as you say that right there, but it is true.

B (56:53)

It is true.

A (56:54)

It is true. And we can pick up, I guess, in that same way that the positivity can be transferable and have a big impact. I'm sure that the negative side of things, it has the same effect. I mean, we all know when we've been around someone who's highly stressed and kind of emanate in that stress, it has an effect on us.

B (57:12)

Well, if you think back to what I said about that negative gearing of the brain being two and a half times stronger than the positive one, stress actually has more of an effect than the positive feeling, and it's more physiological because the effect of your tone of voice and your smile and your eye contact can affect people's oxytocin levels, but that's within their own system. But the effects of your stress, particularly if you're suppressing it, so you're trying not to show it, but you've got high levels of cortisol in your system that actually leaks out of your skin and goes into the skin of other people around you and artificially raises their cortisol levels.

A (57:50)

No, it doesn't. Yeah.

B (57:51)

Yeah. As a leader, more so, like, actually.

A (57:56)

Comes out of my skin into somebody else.

B (57:58)

Cortisols are in the atmosphere, goes into their skin and raises estrogen.

A (58:01)

Well, I just don't think people understand that. No, I mean, they definitely don't understand that. Because, you know, if somebody comes in with a cough or a sneeze next to me, I'm like, go home. Like, just leave the office. I don't want that around me. But in the same way, if somebody came around me with a lot of stress, I'd kind of. There's no way I would tell them to go home when, in actual fact, I probably should because their stress is leaking all over everybody else and making the workplace bad.

B (58:27)

Yeah. And when they're stressed. One of the things that the brain does when it recognizes high levels of cortisol all the time is that it goes into what I call low power mode. So the blood flow around your brain goes to the parts of your brain that you literally need to survive, but not to the parts of your brain that you use to flourish, to think outside of the box, to, you know, to be really productive and creative. That's why presenteeism costs businesses way more than absenteeism.

A (58:56)

Can you. Presenteeism, what does that mean?

B (58:58)

Presenteeism is when you're in that survival mode. So you make sure you come in and you sit at your desk so you don't lose your job, but you can't actually be really productive.

A (59:07)

Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I have a very different philosophy. You know, I really strongly believe that when people are going through things outside the workplace. You break up with a boyfriend, you had a terrible. Like, it's. Nothing is right unless you come in with the right frame of mind. I would rather somebody just be honest and say, I'm really not in the right frame of mind for work today. I'm going to. And it's like, that is totally fine.

B (59:33)

It would cost you a lot of money.

A (59:34)

Skip out. It's totally fine because I truly believe that it's better that you're not. You're not there. It's going to cost me more than if you stay at home, figure your things out and come back to me when you're fresh in a couple of days. But that isn't the, you know, common wisdom, I guess. So how do you train leaders to have more awareness around what they're putting out? What are the tips that you give people?

B (59:56)

Well, when I first started coaching, which was around the time of the financial crisis, people were still like going red in the face and yelling at people. I was kind of like, this is not okay.

A (60:06)

But nobody had an idea that that wasn't okay back in those days. Because, I mean, that's how I came up in the workplace with people that were allowed to literally scream in your face.

B (60:15)

Yeah. And make you cry.

A (60:16)

And all the time, like, all the.

B (60:18)

Time, it was normal path of destruction behind them.

A (60:20)

Yes.

B (60:21)

It's more subtle now. But, you know, I do teach people about the mechanism of this hormone cortisol, how it works when we're stressed and how that can show up in the body. Cause it can show up as weight gain, particularly around your center. Because when the brain is sensing these.

A (60:38)

High levels of muscle, this is terrible for me. This is.

B (60:41)

Come on, you are like the last person.

A (60:43)

No, but there's only one piece of like, you know, stubborn weight on my body and of course it's around the abdomen and I make it so well, I had babies, I have children, but I have a perfect diet and I exercise perfectly and that is just a big pile of cortisol induced stress around my abdomen. Yes, it is. I mean, I'm wearing skims, so you would never know, but that's the truth. That is stress. It's loud and clear. I'm really upset. You said I'm deadly sick. No, I know that. I'll show you later. If you want me to prove it to you, I will.

B (61:17)

That's so funny.

A (61:19)

So give me a. If I was to say to you, what are the top five things that as an executive coach that are the biggest takeouts from everything that you teach, what would they be like? Forget the fundamental things, like what are the things that we could all do that we're probably not thinking about?

B (61:36)

Learning to build your resilience to stress. So mental resilience is like, that's the area that's my niche. With leaders, inevitably like you, you are very busy, you travel a lot, you might be jet lagged a lot of the time. High intensity exercise may be very much part of the regime.

A (61:53)

Those intervals that I was told to do by my trainer.

B (61:56)

Yes. Yeah. So, you know, just kind of. I work through what I call micro habits because it's too much to come to someone like you and say, this is one big thing that you need to change. Like starting from now, it's much better for me to work with you and say, okay, let's identify in a year, I would say, let's identify 10 to 12 small things that you can change. And we'll take the first three now for the first quarter of the year and we'll work on building those in as habits that become so natural to you that you don't even think about them anymore. And then by the end of the year, you would have 10 to 12 new microhabits that will accumulate to build your mental resilience. And then you'll be able to take on like bigger and, you know, more different things.

A (62:44)

Give me the top three. What would you tell me to do?

B (62:46)

I mean, they would be different for different people. But you know, again, it's always really important for me to reiterate the foundation one. So, you know, are you getting eight hours of good quality sleep every night?

A (62:56)

No, Dr. Tara.

B (62:59)

But then the micro tweak would be can you go to bed half an hour earlier? Can you include the dimming of the lights as part of your wind down routine so that your sleep quality is better? Can you at least have a regular sleeping and waking time that you maintain throughout the week? And then are you drinking enough water? Let's look at the form of exercise that's actually going to get rid of that belly fat which you don't have.

A (63:23)

But I'm going to hit you up for that one.

B (63:27)

And then it sounds like I've already identified a few for you which might be more time in nature, doing something a bit more creative. It making the quality time that you want to spend with your family more to do with those sorts of activities.

A (63:40)

Yes. Yeah. Today's segment is brought to you by Bumble, the Go to Dating app for finding love. You all know that I'm a big believer in building things that last in business, in family, but especially in relationships. And the truth is, dating can fly feel totally overwhelming. That's why I've noticed so many of my friends and people in my circle turning to Bumble. They've been listening to their community and making changes that actually build trust. Bumble is now photo and phone verified, so you know you're actually talking to someone real. And with optional ID verification, you've got the added reassurance that their photos and their age are real too. So no catfish here. I can keep hearing the same perspective. Bumble just feels more intentional now. Profiles highlight the things that you have in common right away, so it's easier to see if someone aligns with what actually matters to you. And I love that they've added the dating Advice hub in the app. It's like having a dating expert in your pocket. It's a reminder that dating doesn't have to feel overwhelming. You can take your time. You can laugh at yourself and focus on what feels feels right for you. So if you've been thinking about the idea of finding love, maybe, just maybe, this is your sign. Bumble's making dating safer, more intentional and honestly, so much more fun. And isn't that the whole point? Start your love story on Bumble. You know I say it all the time. The best investment you'll ever make is in yourself. And honestly, in today's world, that is no small task. Modern life is full, full of hidden stressors, poor nutrition, environmental toxins, not to mention the daily wear and tear that quietly drain your energy and focus. That's why I've been using Amra Colostrum. It's nature's original performance upgrade, packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that fortify gut health, strength and immunity and ignite metabolism at the cellular level. I take amore every day now, and I've personally noticed a difference in so many ways. My gut feels lighter, my energy is more consistent, and I recover faster after my workouts. Amal colostrum strengthens your immune barriers along your gut, sinuses, lungs, and more, so your body is ready to handle whatever life throws at you. It also supports radiant skin, healthy hair growth, and peak performance, helping you absorb nutrients, stabilize blood sugar, and actually modulate hormones to fuel your metabolism. Basically, it's like giving your body the ultimate upgrade for clarity, resilience, and longevity. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armor.comaspire or enter aspire to get 30% off your first subscription Order. That's a R M R A dot com aspire. From a neuroscience perspective, would you talk a little bit about purpose in your work and why that leads to more motivation and success? I feel like I am a person that, you know, and I feel deeply privileged, but for the last 10 years, I've been able to take what it is that I really believe and weave that into my businesses. And they're my businesses. And so it just, you know, it's happened and it's been successful. But I know that for other people, it's a harder. For some reason, it feels like a harder sell. And I know that you have an opinion on this.

B (67:05)

Yeah. So purpose is really, really important. It makes everything less stressful and it drives the positive emotions that actually help you to achieve success. So when you've got purpose, you'll have higher levels of oxytocin, the bonding hormone that's associated with love, trust, joy, and excitement, and lower levels of the stress hormone, stress hormone cortisol, that we've just spoken about. And so that means your whole system is more regulated and in balance because purpose kind of aligns with values, and that means that your. Your head, your heart, and your gut are more likely to be aligned. So you're in harmony. And. And that makes every decision a little bit easier. So you're not even using up as many cognitive resources to, like, fight decisions that don't feel right. It's actually also really important for people, in terms of mental health and spirituality, to have a purpose that transcends yourself. So it's not just about, I love my job and I make lots of money. There's something.

A (68:07)

We are doing something good here.

B (68:09)

Yeah.

A (68:10)

That's really interesting. And do you encourage people at a certain point in their career to think about purpose. Like, is it important when you've just graduated, you're coming out of college for your first job? Like, I just wonder where somebody gets to think about or when they get to think about purpose in their career.

B (68:29)

What I've seen in my experience with people is it comes up several times throughout life, so often for a reason that's not obvious. You just get to some points in life where you feel a little bit lost and directionless.

A (68:44)

Yeah.

B (68:44)

And that's a really good time to reflect. It's, it's, you know, life's brought that to you and given you a chance to reassess and, you know, sort of realign. Obviously, when you're, you're young and starting out in your career, it's possible that that sense of purpose is going to change quite a lot in the future. But it's good to just have an idea of, you know, what were the things you dreamed of as a child. Is your life starting to pan out like you really hoped it would? And if not, you know, what are the factors that you might need to look at and change?

A (69:16)

Yeah, I feel all of that. It makes a lot of sense. I wonder if there's something just from a personal point of view for you, if there's like a mental habit that you had to learn that's made you the person that you are today.

B (69:31)

It's so interesting because I never know. It's very chicken and egg for me. So neuroplasticity is a very core part of my work. But equally, I've always been someone that loves to learn constantly and grow and change, and I literally don't know which came first. I'm just very lucky that my work and my life align. The latest thing that I've done that has been a real game changer for me has been what I call the art of noticing and particularly appreciation of beauty, which also comes from this neuro aesthetics research. And so I decided that for me it's like next level gratitude. It has the same oxytocin boosting effect.

A (70:06)

Oh, give me next level gratitude. I'm so ready for that.

B (70:10)

So I started just noticing and appreciating beauty, mostly in nature. So it started with the sort of, you know, autumn leaves that was like so red in London last autumn, and then it was the spring blossoms. Because of what I know about birdsong, I always really appreciate birdsong and now so will we. Exactly. And, you know, if I see a beautiful building, I'll really actually Stop and, like, notice it and feel that sense of awe that impressive architecture can bring.

A (70:37)

I love that you said. Cause I've always thought about myself, and I say this so much that I'm someone who literally stops to smell the roses. Like, are we in a park with my kids? And I have done that my whole life, like, had a deep appreciation for things that I find mostly aesthetically beautiful. But, you know, it's like, it's hardwired in me to, like, stop, take the moment literally, smell the rose, literally go like, look at this. We were looking at these, like, tree barks the other day. They were giant in the park, and they were spiky, and they looked insane.

B (71:07)

And.

A (71:07)

And my kids and I stopped, and my eldest son was like, what are we doing? Like, we look insane. And I was like, no, this is incredible. It's so beautiful. Have you ever seen, you know, a tree trunk like that before? But if you're not that type of person, those habits are really difficult. Like, it's really hard for you to have that moment of pause and appreciation. But this comes down to, like, how present you are. Right. Isn't that, like, exactly the same thing? Like, just overall having an appreciation and being in the moment and being present?

B (71:39)

It's true. But it's also a habit that you can learn. So, you know, just like I learned gratitude, practice by writing down or saying 10 things I'm grateful for every day for years, until it became more natural with the appreciation of beauty. I mean, I would say I am quite a present and intentional person, but I certainly wasn't consciously appreciating beauty in the way that I have trained myself to do now. And it really didn't take that long. And like I said, it sort of. I suddenly noticed how many times I was acknowledging that something was beautiful, and I was like, oh, I've trained that habit. That's great.

A (72:11)

Well, you live in London as well. It's very beautiful. You're lucky because it's, like, absolutely all around you.

B (72:17)

There's a lot. Yeah.

A (72:18)

But I love that because, again, I think so many of us understand the power of gratitude. And once you do it for a little while, it's one of those ones that it's so giving. Like, you feel it after, I don't know, even a few weeks of being grateful, every day, you start to notice, and things come up in your day that you feel grateful for, and you immediately can register that. And so you're saying that this appreciation of beauty is exactly the same.

B (72:43)

Exactly the same.

A (72:44)

And it's gonna have the same level of positive effect on your life.

B (72:47)

I think it's more, I mean, I literally think life is so beautiful now. And what I do with gratitude now is I use it when I'm feeling and it changes my mindset so quickly.

A (72:59)

If you could boil what you know down to the kind of three or five things that everyone should really know about their brain, what would you say that those things are? What are the things that we should all be incredibly cognizant of?

B (73:16)

So your brain is a tiny part of your body weight, but it's a very energy hungry organization. So actually uses up 20 to 30% of the breakdown products of what you eat. So when you're asleep, your brain is using up 20% of your energy. When you're, you know, kind of like switched on and like working or being productive, then it's using up about 25% of what you've eaten that day. And if you're stressed, it's using up 30%. So eating with a brain first approach is, is going to have all the beneficial effects on the rest of your, your health, your physical health. I don't know if this is like you, you would count this as part of your answer. But I think intuition is probably the greatest superpower that you can use by understanding your brain body connection. Because intuition obviously is held in the brain and the neurons, but intuition is basically wisdom that you picked up in life, but you can't remember everything that you experienced in life. So these patterns are pushed deeper into the brain and they become just like reflexes. You don't necessarily know why you make a certain decision, but it makes sense. And that information over time gets pushed deeper and deeper into the limbic system, the brainstem, the spinal cord and your gut neurons, which is why, you know, it's sometimes referred to as gut instinct. But wisdom is also held in your body, in your muscles, through like the reactions that you've had to certain emotional things. And now we've understood in the tissues of your body, the fascia. So actually doing something physical can help to unleash your hidden wisdom. So that walk in nature or that you know, dancing or drumming or humming, these ancient practices are actually really good ways to get the most out of your brain and your body. So yeah, here's a little more quirky one. So sleeping on your side, left or right, but not your back or your front is better for cleaning out the waste products from the brain overnight?

A (75:12)

No, I'm a back sleeper. That's terrible. Sleeping on your side is much Better?

B (75:19)

Yeah. I've got a side sleeper pillow you could buy.

A (75:21)

One that makes you sleep on your side. No way. My goodness. Okay, again, writing it down as you speak. And why is it important? I mean, just again, while you sleep, I'm imagining. Part of what's so great about when we sleep is that we are cleaning our brain out. We're giving ourselves a chance to, like, properly recuperate. But you're saying that happens more effectively when you sleep on the side?

B (75:43)

Yes, because we used to think it was a passive process and we didn't really know how it worked. But then in 2012, some Nobel science Prize winning research showed that, you know the lymphatic system in the body.

A (75:54)

Yes.

B (75:54)

There's a glymphatic system in the brain which is. It's similar to the lymphatic system, but it's made up of glial cells. And there's an active flushing out of toxins that takes seven hours overnight. And it gets rid of the sort of toxins that build up due to the wear and tear of everyday life and stress, and they're the things that accumulate to become the pathology that creates dementia.

A (76:20)

Wow. So that's why it's so important to have a meaningful good seven hours or more of sleep. But also you can help that flushing a lot more if you're side sleeping.

B (76:32)

Yeah.

A (76:33)

Oh, wow. That is a really good one. I am purchasing that pillow immediately, and.

B (76:39)

That'S why I use the gua sha on my neck in the morning for the.

A (76:42)

I mean, and again, I know so much about lymphatic drainage. It's like I have those massages and you feel and see and you know that benefit. But that's so interesting that the same system is essentially there for your brain. All right, I have one last question for you that I think is important. What is the one thing that you would want people to know about the power of their own brain?

B (77:05)

Yeah. So the main thing which kind of encompasses everything that we've said is that we are capable of so much more than we realize. Like, we don't utilize all of our brain power and we don't kind of understand the benefits of kind of like the interconnections that can happen in the brain. So we tend to sort of be quite narrow in our focus and quite like in task mode. And there's actually a massive benefit to being in what's called default mode, which is the part where you let your mind wander and you generate new ideas and you make connections between things that maybe you haven't had time to think of. So if you put that together with some time in nature, then I think that's where people can really start to unleash their potential. By just giving yourself time to just be and let your mind wander and take in that awe from nature, I just guarantee that people will come up with ideas and ways to change their life that they just don't give themselves the time for.

A (78:06)

I am 100% sure you are right. I mean, I always. I'm obsessed with the habits of highly successful people. And I remember watching something a while ago about Bill Gates and he takes a thinking week in nature. It's a tiny little cabin. He has a bunch of books but no devices. Nobody's allowed to call him. And essentially exactly what you're saying. He allows himself to think and to process all of the information and everything that he's learned and to have that association with nature and just have a beautiful moment of the brain doing what the brain is supposed to do. Now listen, I don't know that I can find a thinking week, but I could definitely find a thinking afternoon.

B (78:44)

Yeah, exactly.

A (78:45)

You know, just to let myself wander, as you say, That's a really bloody good tip. Okay. I wanna know the first thing that you do in your day that primes your brain. Now, I do think I know the answer to this, but give me the most important thing that you do to prime your brain for the day.

B (79:06)

Gratitude. Practice.

A (79:07)

And then at the end of the day, no, you've got a big routine. I need you to boil.

B (79:15)

I have red light bulbs in my bedroom.

A (79:17)

Do you? Well, we're gonna get it there, Dr. Tara. Okay, girl for blue light blocking.

B (79:28)

Obviously.

A (79:29)

Obviously, obviously. Is there a book that changed your perspective?

B (79:36)

Yeah, it's a really old book called the Master Key System. I think it was written in 1927 or something.

A (79:41)

Wow.

B (79:41)

And it came out as a series of weekly newspaper columns, but then it got made into a book. And there's an exercise that you do after each chapter, which it completely changed the way that I think and started me on the road of manifestation.

A (79:56)

Oh, wow. We are all running to buy that.

B (79:58)

But then I wrote the Source, which is like the modern day version of it. So I'd run.

A (80:02)

So we could also get that. Thank you very much. Yes, we'll note both of them. Tell me one belief that has rewired your brain and one that you've held onto. Like a deeply held belief that you have.

B (80:16)

Well, I think learning about neuroplasticity, considering that when I was at Medical school, we didn't think it existed. And that's changed in my career, has obviously changed the way that I live my life and what I teach. Something that I've held onto. Well, my dad said I was either going to be Tara or Maya. And when I was born, he just looked at me and said, she's definitely a Tara. And in Indian languages, Tara means star. And he always used to say to me, you're a star and, like, only good things are gonna happen to you. And so I've. Yeah, I've held onto that since I was a little girl.

A (80:51)

Oh, my God, I love that. What a lovely. What a lovely thing. It's so good when you have someone from an early age that really believes in you, like, it's everything. You're a star. Like, that would stay with you every day. Can I ask you, what are you really excited about professionally? When you think about everything that you know and where you are in your career and I don't know if, you know, 10 years ago you saw yourself in LA doing the podcast circuit, being so highly sought after for your work and your knowledge. Like, what excites you now?

B (81:24)

I've actually just written a new book which is coming out in September, and it's called the. The New Science of How to Trust your instincts. And it is literally my life's work. I've poured my heart and soul into it. It's got everything in it that I believe in now and about, you know, about how I live my life, like how I understand the nature of consciousness, what I believe about the potential for humanity.

A (81:48)

I'm so happy that that's happening for you, because again, I said to you, your work and what you teach and how you teach it more specifically, I find so beautifully refreshing because to me, you're like a. You know, you're a person that is grounded in all of this science. You have a beautiful, simplistic way of putting across these very deeply complicated ideas, especially for somebody like me, whose brain can just be scrambled by over information. But I love the way you're teaching us to do something that feels a bit more spiritually connected. You know, when you talk about intuition and gut instinct and those things, like, I know that's true, like, I don't need anybody to tell me that, like, the science behind it, because that's how I've lived my whole life. But I think for so many of us to be able to tap into that power, we do need a little bit more of the information and to understand how it really works. And So I love that you're bringing something that for my whole life I've heard that, you know, people have signs and that people don't leave us when they die. And I think that for it to come from someone like you is very, very important. And especially in our culture at this point in time, it's really important that we can believe things that are beyond the tangible. You know, it's really, really important work. And I know all the work that you do is really important, but maybe this is your, you know, what do they call it, like, when you have, like the biggest, fabulous most moment in your life? It's that. That's the technical term for it. You're having the biggest, fabulous most moment of your life. And I'm really happy for you because I think that your work is superb. And I'm super happy to have spoken to you today. Thank you. Thank you. If you're loving this part, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliatt Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy are Maddy Sprung Keyser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Salouja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen K. Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, My teams at the lead company and wme. Maura Curran, Josefina, Frank Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you could DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emagreed me. Look, we get it. You can hardly go anywhere or do anything these days without hearing AI this or AI that. And if you're like most people when it comes to AI, you're impressed but have a few concerns. But what if AI was used not as a tool to replace people, but as a way to help understand people better? AI from SurveyMonkey is designed to do just that, from crafting the perfect survey, which is harder than you might think to analysis that digs deep, finds patterns and surfaces trends quickly. SurveyMonkey's powerful suite of AI capabilities makes it faster and easier than ever before to get insight from real people, helping you make confident decisions for your business. Try it today at surveymonkey. Com. Emma.