← Aspire with Emma Grede
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- [00:10]
A
So today I am so excited for you to meet one of my old friends and colleagues. I've known Rich kleiman for over 20 years and I cannot tell you how excited I am to share this deeply moving conversation. Completely not what I thought we were going to do today. But the reason I want to share this with you is because I think whenever we think about trauma, especially that that come from our, it's always with a negative connotation. And what is so incredible about this conversation is how Rich has completely dispelled those myths and brought it into his life in a way that has actually helped make and shape his success. And don't forget, before we get into this, to like and subscribe. What does it mean to live a brave life as a working woman? It's about showing up, staying grounded, and having the physical and mental energy to handle the pace of life. And that is one of the reasons to love Ancient and Brave and their pure, potent, powerful supplements. Ancient and Brave has been an iconic wellness brand in the UK for years and now they've launched in the us. It feels like the perfect moment to talk about the two products you can integrate into your daily routine that change the game. They're True Creatine and True Collagen. Called the Power Duo, emerging research explores creatine's role in supporting women's strength, cognitive health and energy. Ancient and Brave's True Creatine plus is the one you need to try. Just load it into your water to support peak performance and vitality, then stack it with their best selling clinically studied True collagen, a single ingredient collagen sourced from the EU Hertz. Free from growth hormones and routine antibiotics, this is a daily habit that supports healthy aging, post exercise, recovery and skin. They come in gorgeous jars or on the go sachets for wherever you're off to. Ancient and Brave is a certified B Corp, a member of 1% for the planet. They offer tools that genuinely support and nourish your brain. Backed by scientists and experts, right now, Ancient and Brave is giving my listeners an exclusive offer. Head to ancientandbrave.com and use code EMMA for 20% off your first order. That's ancientandbrave.com, code EMMA for 20% off. Give your body a little daily bravery. It adds up. This episode is sponsored by Macy's. Now one of the easiest ways to refresh your wardrobe is by starting with a great pair of jeans. Because when the denim fits well, the rest of the outfit will always come together completely effortlessly. And that's why Good American is a great option when you're thinking about a seasonal upgrade. From day one, we focused on creating jeans that actually cater to women's bodies. Prioritize fit, comfort, and styles that you'll wear over and over. You can shop Good American at Macy's. And right now, their spring campaign is all about bringing new energy into the pieces you wear every day. A great pair of jeans becomes the base, and from there, it's about how you style them. Maybe that's pairing them with a crisp button down, a lightweight knit or a blazer. Maybe it's adding texture or playing with proportion, but finding the pieces that make a simple outfit feel a little more intentional. Find the standout brands that define this season. Style and familiar fragrance and hidden gems at Macy's. Shop now@macy's.com or in store. The Start With Yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now@emmigrid.com. Rich Kleiman, welcome to Aspire.
- [03:41]
B
Oh, my God. I am so honored to be here.
- [03:44]
A
I am. I cannot tell you how happy I am that you're here. I think the first thing that I have to do is level with anyone that might be watching this because I've known you for 20 years.
- [03:53]
B
20 years.
- [03:54]
A
20 years, which is extraordinary. I've known sport rich, I've known music rich, I have known the new media, mobile media rich. I love this. But we've actually never spoken about young rich, which is where I really want to go today because we all need to understand what has made you the person that you are today. But ahead of that, for anybody that is watching this episode that needs to know more about you and to contextualize you in the way that you are and what you're doing today, can you just give the audience just like a little flavor so that we understand exactly where you are now?
- [04:28]
B
Where I am right now?
- [04:29]
A
Yeah.
- [04:30]
B
Well, right now I am very lucky to be sitting across from you. That's where I am right now. But I am the founder of both Boardroom, a media brand that we've built from scratch that is just my pride and joy. And 35 Ventures, which is the family office of sorts, the Holdco for Kevin Duran and I. And I've been managing Kevin for almost 13 years, so I still operate as his agent, but that all sits within our family office. And that has our investments in real estate and sports and private equity and venture, his Nike business, which is 19 years and running now, and our foundation, which is like a big part and Rooted in kind of all the work we do on that side. But boardroom is where I flex my entrepreneurial gene.
- [05:13]
A
And boardroom, for anyone who is just asleep, just let's talk about that business for a little while because it has amazed me. But it's so truly you, because as the person that was music rich and sport rich, like, I mean, you've really kind of put these things together. But explain it for anybody that isn't following right now and really should be.
- [05:31]
B
Yeah, I mean, you know, growing up in New York, I think I had the benefit of being around this like explosion in culture around both hip hop, basketball culture, downtown New York culture, club culture. All of it was happening in my like formative years. And I liked all of it. I liked all of it. And I always wanted to be in the room. The oxygen that I got was from being around people, always all different types of people. And I always realized that I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was that I loved. I just wanted to be regarded in those rooms. I wanted to build something. When I was seven years old, I launched this business called Loya Kid. The idea was that all my friends would bitch about their parents. So I was like, let me rep you, like, let me deal with it. But really it was just so I could like make a business card and walk around and say I own something. And I did that all the time as a kid. And as I started to get into my work world, I ended up in the music business. Even though I obsessed over sports and within the music business, I would wear different hats. I was a music supervisor, I. I managed DJs, I consulted for clubs, I hustled. That's all I did. With no real structure, I hustled. And when I finally got to the place that I wanted to be around the sports world, I realized that if young me had ever had the opportunity to consume a brand that like lived at that intersection, that talked to people that were interested in all those things. And I was fortunate that as we started to build it, that world became the center of influence. And there's certain rooms where you could be in private equity, sports, art, music, and if you're in that room, it all makes sense to everyone else. And that's what the brand really embodies.
- [07:18]
A
I mean, you've done such an incredible job of it. I mean, it has to be said. So I met you in the. I guess I don't even know if it was music or sport days because you were a music guy to me. In running a Sports division in a music company. Right. I met you when you were at Roc Nation.
- [07:35]
B
Yeah, no, no, it was actually before that. Because.
- [07:37]
A
Did I meet you before that?
- [07:38]
B
Yeah, because.
- [07:38]
A
What are you talking about?
- [07:39]
B
The first, like, real person to believe in me or see me in a way that felt powerful was Mark Ronson.
- [07:48]
A
Oh, wow. Yeah, of course. No, I met you through Mark Ronson.
- [07:50]
B
Yeah. So you were doing a shoot for Mark.
- [07:54]
A
I was trying to do a lot of things back then.
- [07:56]
B
It was a Mark Selicker photograph.
- [07:58]
A
Oh, wow.
- [08:00]
B
And it was Mark for GQ or for Gucci, something. And you walked on set, and I was like, oh, I need to know her.
- [08:08]
A
Oh. And I was the same. I was like, this guy, like, he's got it down. Everybody knows him. And I literally forget Mark Ronson, as lovely as he is. But I was like, I'm gonna be friends with Rich. Like, this guy. And you were so nice and so kind to me. And you said to me, what do you need? What do you want? And I was like, everything.
- [08:25]
B
Yes.
- [08:25]
A
I need to know who you are. I need to, like, be in these rooms. I need to do this. And the one thing I will say about you, Rich, that still prevails to this day, you were so unbelievably kind. And I think so many, you know, managers, agents, publicists, they say shit to you while you're on set, and then they never pick up the phone again unless you've got something else to bring them. And what was so interesting is that you did pick up the phone over and over again, and you actually gave me, like, a huge leg up. Cause you were like, do you know what? You're really good at this stuff. Why don't you work for my boy Mark? And I was just like, who, me? Really? You were like, yeah, absolutely. Like, why don't you do. And I was like, delivering commercial opportunities. But at that point in my career, it meant an enormous amount to be seen by someone that was in your position. Because you were flying high with this artist. That was flying high. And I was like, the run of the. Like, the broker. Like, nobody cares about the broker. It's like you've either got something to bring, and if you don't, somebody else will. And it says a lot about the type of person you are and how you do business and how you move and the fact that we're still friends all of these years later.
- [09:32]
B
That's right. Well, I appreciate you saying that.
- [09:34]
A
No, it's the truth. So let's start at the beginning. I want to understand A little bit more about the environment that you grew up in. Because the way that I always saw you is that you were with the coolest people. You're over here with Jay Z, and you're over there with Mark Ronson. You're over there with Katie. But this is not at all your start and your upbringing. So tell me, like, where were you born? How did it all start? Like, give me the, like, background.
- [09:57]
B
Yeah. I grew up in New York City on the Upper west side at a time where there was, like, a real middle class in New York where you could go to private school, but you maybe didn't go away on vacation. Right? Really slumming it.
- [10:10]
A
Priorities.
- [10:12]
B
And I was always surrounded by people. Everyone was always at my house. I always had, like, a big group of friends. But my house was volatile. Like, it was really volatile as a kid. And I thought it was normal, but there was so much fighting and screaming and yelling. And, you know, my brother and I hated it. It was so bad the way they fought. And the thing was, is that my mom was the vicious one, you know, My mom was the really, really vicious one and also erratic and emotional. But I loved her, and I was close to her because I almost was worried for her and scared for her. But when she was okay, she was so electric, you know, and she was charismatic. But it was very, very rare. And I remember when my brother and I, for, like, 10, they sat us down and told us they were getting divorced, and I flipped out. And then, like, two minutes later, they each lit a cigarette, and I'm like, and you smoke? Like, what the fuck? This is the worst day of my life. But then over those next four years, it was a really odd thing because they didn't actually separate. No one left the house.
- [11:18]
A
Oh, so they remained together, but they weren't together.
- [11:22]
B
They hardly spoke to each other. And I used to wait up at night at the, like, doorstep of my room just to make sure they were sleeping before I went to sleep, because I didn't want them to fight. And I lived in just complete fear of them just unraveling. And then when my father finally left, you know, I stayed with my mom, because back then, that's what you did. You stayed with your mom, you know, so you stay with your mom, you see your father on a weekend or something. And my mom really just, like, fell apart. From that point on, she was addicted to drugs. She was completely just off. And she was mean. She was just mean. And it was around that time where, like, you're 13, 14, the stakes at school become higher and you have. You have to lock in. And no one was watching me. No one was paying any attention to what I was doing.
- [12:18]
A
You were. You were receipt. Very emotionally insecure. Were you financially insecure too?
- [12:24]
B
We were good. My mom complained about money all the time. Yelled about like my father was not giving him, giving her, but we were fine. But emotionally it was just chaotic, you know, And I. I would live two lives because when I was home, it shit was chaotic. But when I went out the house, I was able to park that and be at the center of the party. And I really wanted people around me.
- [12:48]
A
So it was around you. Whatever was going down with your mom was visible. This wasn't something that was happening behind closed doors so much.
- [12:55]
B
No. I would walk in her room and, you know, she'd be out for 36 hours on the bed. Oh, shit, she'd doing drugs in our house. And the thing was, is, like, I just wanted to get out. So the only people hanging out during the school week were not the kids that I was going to school with. So I just went out and went to the corner. I mean, I had a crew of like 40 of us that hung out outside a Burger King on Broadway and we just chilled. And it allowed me the ability at times to be around people that also had shit going on in their life where we really could relate to each other. So when I ended up going to college at 18, I got into one school. I applied to like eight schools. I knew I wouldn't get in. I applied blindly because I damn near got C's and D's. Like, I really. When I tell you I did not go to school, I went to school every day because I love being around people.
- [13:49]
A
But the education wasn't the focus.
- [13:51]
B
I didn't even think about it. I phoned in every single thing I did. I hustled my way through high school.
- [13:56]
A
But there wasn't like a learning difficulty. This was really just about you having. There was nowhere for you to focus. There was no one at home telling you, like, do your best. It was like everyone was for themselves. Your mom is kind of tapped out and your going to school every day dialing it in and really focused on what happens after school.
- [14:11]
B
Yeah. No, no learning problems. If anything, I got stuff quick enough to just get by.
- [14:18]
A
Right. I mean, that's crazy. I wonder for you, like, what insecurities from your childhood have actually stayed with you. Because I. And I want to kind of get into your college years. Cause I feel like they were so formative. In your life. But there's stuff that just happens when you're really young, like between the age of sort of 7 and 14 that is so formative. How does that show up in your life now?
- [14:41]
B
I think like, my ability still to this day to navigate through chaos, no matter what's going on. Like, my heart doesn't ever race like that. My heart doesn't skip a beat. My brain doesn't start spinning from chaos anymore. If anything, I know I'm the right person to navigate through chaos, Whether that's in business or for a friend of mine or family. I'm hyper aware. If you're an anxious kid, which I was because of. Of everything being so chaotic, I'm always aware and paying attention and nothing's going to get by me. And I can read rooms really well and I can read people really well. But I think most of all was, you know, I felt for my mom and it took me a long time to realize that because I really did not like her because of how she treated us. But I felt for her because when I got older and I started to think about, like, you didn't want this. Like, nobody is born wanting this. So there's a level of empathy that I live with still to this day that allows me to manage situations. Because if you don't, you'll go crazy. Like, if you really think everyone's out to get you, or if every negotiation in business and everything you do in life has got to be a battle, that ain't for me. I don't have the. I don't even have the energy physically or mentally to do that. So I like to think about what the person on the other side of the table is going through or thinking about.
- [16:01]
A
This is kind of amazing to me because I think for people that are sitting home listening to this, you know, you always imagine that your childhood trauma will only have, like, negative effects on you. And everything that you described is actually a superpower. Things that you learned, coping mechanisms that you learned as a kid that actually allow you to be the best at what you do now, right. Allows you to be able to be in a crazy, chaotic situation with very high stakes and yet remain calm. It allows you to be the good. It allows you to see what's happening in a room and in a situation and the other side of this coin where despite what you went through with your mom, you being empathetic and then finding that in situations and being able to say in this negotiation what's happening on the other side of the table, like these Things are superpowers. They really are. And I think it's so important to remember that regardless of where we've come from, what we went through, you can do two things with all of this stuff, right? It can really kill you, but it can also be the making of you. And I look at you and I look at your success and go these things, while horrendous and unfortunate and not making for the best childhood, they've made you who you are and they've given you the ability to be the person and run the businesses that you do now. It's pretty extraordinary, really.
- [17:19]
B
Well, I appreciate it. I mean, I think, you know, I did the work. I did, you know, I really did do the work.
- [17:25]
A
Say more about that.
- [17:27]
B
Well, listen, when I left my house when I was, like, 18 again, I went. I got into one school and it was this, like, general studies program at Boston. And I went up to Boston. I wasn't ready to go, but I knew I was ready to get out of my house.
- [17:42]
A
You gotta escape.
- [17:43]
B
And, you know, as soon as I got there, like, true to form, I was out and I partied and. And I had a big group of friends and I was wilding out a little bit, and I ended up finding what my hustle was like. I always need something to be hustling with. And hustling has a bad connotation in some cases, but for me it doesn't. Because in my opinion, it is, like, defined as, like, when you don't really know yet what you want to do, but that thing is going on in your brain. Like, you just gotta keep it moving. So I ended up becoming a bookie.
- [18:18]
A
You did?
- [18:18]
B
I was a bookie in college. And it was eye opening for me because it was like. It was intoxicating, man. I loved it. I loved making the money. I loved dealing with people.
- [18:29]
A
Do you remember how much money you
- [18:30]
B
were making then when I left? So I ended up living in Boston for a year and a half after I got kicked out. Cause I kicked out after the first semester. And I lived off this money, too, but I probably left with, like, close to 275,000 cash and stuff.
- [18:45]
A
Oh, you were. You were really out in the streets. You were doing things.
- [18:48]
B
I was crushing it.
- [18:49]
A
Hundreds of thousands of dollars. What'd you get kicked out for?
- [18:52]
B
I just didn't go to school. I literally didn't go to school. Like, as soon as you were. The first morning I woke up for class, I looked at myself. I was like, nobody's gonna say shit. Like, I need to Sleep. I was so emotionally drained from life, like literally at 18 drained. And I had time and prioritized. Being out and being in the mix.
- [19:16]
A
Well, also, you were probably in a bit of fight or flight. And I think when you've lived in a household like that, you don't know what to do when there isn't any Dr. And so it does crazy things to your body. I remember leaving my own home and kind of feeling like, not, I don't wanna say bored, but I was like. I kind of looked for drama and I made shitty things happen and bad choices and strange boyfriends because I was used to there being constant drama. And that's what I lived in and that's what I thrived off of. And that's all I knew. And so when you don't have that, there becomes this idea that like you've replaced it with something else, like either equally bad or equally damaging.
- [19:51]
B
Without question. Without question. To be honest, that's exactly what I ran into was there was this year and a half of like living in. In La La land in Boston, like being a bookie, going out at night and not focused on school whatsoever. But in reality, like I had zero responsibility and I wasn't home. I mean, I would still call home and hear the way she sounded or she wouldn't answer the phone for two days or I knew something was up. I always knew when she was high, always knew when she was on drugs.
- [20:22]
A
Drugs.
- [20:22]
B
But it all of a sudden hit me physically and I had the most insane anxiety attack that led me to the hospital. And it's interesting because at that time you weren't going to hear anyone say that out loud. You definitely weren't going to hear a man say that.
- [20:38]
A
No. What is this, 30 years ago?
- [20:39]
B
I mean, 1996, 95.
- [20:42]
A
But no one was using that language.
- [20:44]
B
I'll tell you, the one thing that I never had a problem with is being dead up about what I was going through.
- [20:51]
A
Where do you think that came from? I don't.
- [20:53]
B
You know, the thing was like, I know who I am and I'm confident, but I'm also like somebody that is okay with having fun at my own expense. And, you know, it felt to me like at that time, like if I hid that, that I was gonna die honestly straight up. And I was like, this is not this whole thing that's going on in my body right now and in my mind, like, if I keep this to me, it's not gon from me. So I just kept it 100 with everybody around me With a smile. And I laughed about it. And when, when I was like having anxiety attack or something, or freaking out sometimes it got the best of me. And I ended up going to the hospital so many times when I was in Boston because I was out. I was. I was out of control. I didn't even know how to manage what was happening to me. But I talked about it, I laughed about it with everybody. And I ended up finding a doctor for myself in Boston. This dude was just prescribing me pills and shit.
- [21:48]
A
Oh, dishonest.
- [21:49]
B
And then I remember at the end of my sophomore year, I was bookying, I was dating this girl. I was out every night, I was having anxiety attacks. Like, it was like a cold. Wasn't even thinking about it.
- [22:01]
A
How did they manifest for you? What's it look like?
- [22:03]
B
My heart would race, my left arm would go numb. Just weird shit.
- [22:07]
A
Physically, do you still suffer from anxiety now?
- [22:10]
B
Yes and no. Like, they don't happen in the form of an anxiety attack anymore. No. Really, I've been able to harness it over the last few decades. If anything, I think I'm more of like a guide for other people that are finally dealing with that in their life now. Or if my daughter is feeling something. I remember my daughter said to me, I feel like I can't breathe. And I was like, I know exactly how you feel. Like. And I talked her through it and understood that feeling. Because that shit is a weird thing to say out loud, right? And when you start figuring your body out, you start going like, how the fuck is all this happening? And. Right. And if you feel feel disconnected from your body, that's when you're going to really start to bug yourself out. And when I was growing up, my body was so scared of what was going on in my life, so my mind had to almost separate itself. So it was like two different things. So my mind had to take care of my body. So when things had come or I had time to think about something, your mind can kind of bug you out. And I remember I was sitting in my apartment and I. I called my brother and I'm like, I gotta get the hell outta Boston. Like, this is crazy. Like, this isn't healthy. And I just took my safe with my cash and I went back to New York.
- [23:17]
A
Before you leave Boston altogether, I'm interested in that time when you were a bookie. Like, what did it teach you about navigating people and money? Like, what are the things you learned in that moment that perhaps creep up now?
- [23:31]
B
It was like the basic skill set of running a business like. Like managing a P and L. Right. Even though it was in a composition notebook and I was writing that shit in pencil, it was like managing a P and L. It was understanding the people that were betting with me and profiling them and going, you know what? This guy wants to put $5,000 in on a game. He don't have that money. I could tell he doesn't have that money. Your limit is this. It was knowing how much was bet on one side and figuring out if I had to lay off my best. So, like, if everyone was betting one side, I would bet with another bookie on the other side so I didn't lose too much. And then collecting, you know what I'm saying? And dealing with people and then getting people to help me collect and just feeling like some ownership of it and some pride in it. And it was like the first thing I felt real pride in that I had built for myself in that way. And also, like, there was a little bit of, like, that young, just delusional, like, maybe I'm Ace Rothstein from Casino, you know, like, maybe I really am this gangster. And it was like, I loved that movie and loved that character. So I was also, like, playing a role while I was being a followers of bookie, too.
- [24:39]
A
But not something for someone who's really suffering with anxiety. So you decide you're like, I've gotta get out of Boston, and you leave and go to New York. Okay, what happens there? Because I just need to understand this transition from guy that leaves home, is at college, is a bookie, and then you find yourself in the music business. Because I feel like one of the first projects. And listen, I could have it completely wrong, but one of the things that I knew about you is that you'd done this Jay Z documentary. So I need to understand this link that, like, happens that you even get the opportunity to do that because you gotta be in the music business.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah. So I went back to New York and the only people that were around really, were all my friends that really didn't go to college, you know? So I started hanging out with everybody again. And we were going out and clubs. And at that point in my life, I really was like thinking I wanted to be in the restaurant business. I ended up moving to South Florida, like, randomly for five months just to get away with a friend of mine. We didn't do shit in South Florida. Like, truly didn't do anything. But by the time I left there, I thought to myself, okay, I gotta do something, like I missed the booking side of my life a little bit.
- [25:45]
A
You missed the money?
- [25:46]
B
I missed the money. Or just like feeling like, in control of something.
- [25:50]
A
Thought you had something going on.
- [25:51]
B
Yeah. And what happened was, by the time I moved back to New York, a lot of kids I knew from the other side of my life were graduating college. And one of my friends, Friends who's also today a very successful founder, this guy Noah Kerner, founded Acorns and built a few other businesses. Really successful founder. He called me and said that him and another friend wanted to start a hip hop website. This is in 1999 and was very pioneer then. The idea was just like, community, commerce, content. Really what boardroom is.
- [26:22]
A
Wow.
- [26:22]
B
And they said, we need somebody that's in the mix. We need somebody that knows artists and knows athletes. And I did a little bit. I was out in the club, but I understood the world that they needed to tap into. So we raised some money. I threw a monster launch party in the Hamptons with Q Tip and Mark Ronson DJing. And we ran out of the money like a year and a half, two years in. But at that point, you lost all
- [26:46]
A
your P and L discipline.
- [26:47]
B
P and L discipline was gone out the window. But that. That point, I said, oh, I know what I'm going to do in this. In this life. Like, I get it. I know what excites me and I know how I. How I can be successful and powerful and I gotta. I gotta start this journey.
- [27:02]
A
And was that. That was like the music business. Like, I'm gonna be in that. Yeah.
- [27:06]
B
I mean, it was just like being around talent and, like, creating a brand for what this website was. It was called1level.com, and it was just creating a brand and connecting the dots and bringing talent into our office and going out and networking and trying to raise money. And back then, it was really big to have, like, a board of advisors. So, like, our board of advisors were Steve Stout, Q Tip, Heavy D and Robert De Niro. And that was just me hustling in New York. And I'm 19.
- [27:31]
A
Sounds like something.
- [27:32]
B
Yeah.
- [27:33]
A
That's crazy. Did you understand at that point, like, I have a skill for putting things together, or were you just like, I just love doing this?
- [27:40]
B
I knew I had a skill for speaking to people from all different walks of life, being in a room and being comfortable talking to anybody. And I knew I had a taste and I knew I understood how to get people to talk about something, like how to get people to. To react to something. I understood that. And as soon as that finished. And life has, like, been this, like, constant journey of weaving these moments in my life. And I think that the reason those moments kept happening to me is because I just kept moving forward and I kept putting myself in the right place. And a mutual friend of ours, Jamie Patrikov, called me and he said, you want me to come to Radical Media with him, a production company in New York, to kind of pitch or be a part of the pitch on this show, the Life, which was on espn and it was a sports show. So I think Jamie knew, like, here's somebody that has institutional knowledge and understanding of sports because I was that kid. I was like an encyclopedia. So we ended up selling the show to espn. There was no role for me as a producer, but they needed a music supervisor. And I knew nothing about it, but I raised my hand to do it. And the thing that got me was that there was a budget and whatever I didn't spend, I could keep.
- [28:47]
A
Oh, yeah, that'll get you. It's 2026, and if you're still paying rent without Bilt, it might be time to rethink that. Rent is one of the biggest expenses most people have every month. And traditionally it just clears your account and that's it. BILT is the loyalty program for renters that rewards you for your biggest monthly expense rent. With bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be redeemed towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and. And here's what's new. BILT members can now earn points on mortgage payments as well. So whether you rent or own, you can get rewarded wherever you live and unlock benefits with more than 45,000 restaurants, fitness studios, pharmacies and neighborhood partners. If it were me, I'd redeem my points towards travel through the BILT travel portal or even everyday things like Lyft rides. It's practical and it adds up over time. It's simple. Paying rent is better with bilt. And now owning a home can be better with BILT too. Earn rewards and get something back wherever you live. Join the loyalty program for renters@joinbuilt.com Emma that's J O I N B I L T.com Emma make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. The Start with Yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now@emma greed.com. Do you think that, like, perhaps not having much guidance in your life made you fearless? Cause that's a pretty, like, crazy role to step into With a friend without you knowing anything or what to do?
- [30:28]
B
No. No blueprint, no game plan, no rule book, no guardrails.
- [30:34]
A
And were you scared?
- [30:36]
B
No. No, no, no.
- [30:38]
A
There was no fear of, like, I could fuck this up?
- [30:41]
B
No. The way I looked at it was like, I was scared. My whole. I always was scared. As a kid, I was so scared to hang out the window waiting for my mom when she wasn't home. Now I was scared about that shit all day.
- [30:52]
A
It was normal.
- [30:53]
B
So for me, I was just like, this is fun. Like, straight up, this is fun.
- [30:57]
A
That's crazy. Did you have a mentor or someone around you at that time that was helping to guide you?
- [31:02]
B
No.
- [31:02]
A
I wonder if you think that the absence of a mentor actually gave you more of a Runway to trust your own instincts. If you just. That you didn't have a choice. So you just were like, okay, what do I feel? And you went for it.
- [31:14]
B
You ever see Good Will Hunting when Robin Williams says to Matt Damon, like, who challenges you? And he was like, what you mean? He was like, Shakespeare. This person, that person. It wasn't like that for me, but my mentors were who I watched. Like, I observed them. They didn't give me any game. No one put their arm around me, But I observed them and I watched them. And I was aware. I was always aware, and I was curious. And the curiosity didn't always manifest in, like, me getting time with someone to ask questions. It was just like, seeking it myself and seeking information and watching people and pushing myself to go into rooms where one would be uncomfortable. And, you know, I think that was exciting. And when. And when I took that role on, I learned a new skill, which was that I knew nothing about the music business, but I had two or three people that I knew had started in the music business. And because my relationships with people were strong, always, I went and sought out, like, the basics. And when I sought out the basics from them, I knew enough to start to figure it out on the job. And I started building out this database of unsigned artists and producers. And the music really became, like, recognized as, like, a big part of what this show was. And I then found myself in the music business. And the reason I did fade to black was because through all that, I ended up in a room where I met Jay's manager at the time. We went to radical media, and Jay had had this incredible footage from Madison Square Garden. And next thing I knew, like, I found myself producer on a film of one of the most iconic individuals of our lifetime.
- [32:52]
A
I mean, it's so crazy to me because throughout your career, you've kind of had these kind of relationships that have become currency for you. And I wonder at what point you really realized that your proximity had so much power and could get you in the rooms and you could then leverage that. Cause it feels like you've done that over and over.
- [33:09]
B
And listen, I think growing up in New York is, like, a real blessing in that regard.
- [33:14]
A
No doubt.
- [33:15]
B
I think that the diversity of the group of people around me my whole life, and the ability to understand different cultures and be in different rooms and understand what wealth looked like and understand what struggle looked like, and being, like, a real fan of the things that I surrounded myself around let me respect these people in a different way. And I never really asked for shit. Like, that's not how I approach relationships. Like, I just. You know, there was periods in my life where I would be that guy pitching you at the club or pitching you when I ran into you. But I quickly realized, like, damn, nobody wants to hear that you can't be that guy, you know? So it was really just about forming these relationships and finding my love. Little ways to fit in, you know, and my little pockets where I could create value. But the thing was, is I always knew I was gonna be so much bigger than what I was doing. But I was okay with sitting in that role at that time.
- [34:15]
A
I understand that so much. I wonder, like, when you were in these rooms, in these very powerful rooms, if any of your sort of insecurities would bubble up. Thinking about insecurities from your past, did that ever happen to you?
- [34:28]
B
All the time. All the time. Because when you don't have guidance as a young person, and you have that type of chaos around you, you've lost all that validation that you need as a kid. Somebody to tell you, like, you're the shit or you're gonna be okay, and
- [34:47]
A
to mean it, which is huge, right? As a parent, you know, that, like, giving your kids this idea that whatever you do, like, it'll be all right. Like, there is a place and a space and, like, we've got you here. And when you don't have that, it's incredibly difficult for people to understand who come from a background where you just have, like, regular, supportive parents. Like, when your mom and dad have got you, like, you go home and there'll be food in the fridge and the lights are on and shit's just fine. And if you don't have that, it leaves you just without knowing. And that is such a difficult place
- [35:22]
B
to be without Question. Honestly, you know, and we've talked about this offline before. Like, I can see a very clear kind of pattern with people that I know that no matter how much money they had or didn't have, if they had love and support and calm growing up, they can do whatever they want,
- [35:43]
A
1 million percent, because it is the basis and the foundation for this idea of safety. Like, I will be all right. Somebody loves to me. Somebody's got me. And I think that, you know, again, we. We hear all of these stories of incredible founders and incredible entrepreneurs, but you. There is no mistaking the level of insecurity of when you don't have that, when your parents didn't provide that for you, and your baseline is just in an entirely different place.
- [36:10]
B
Yeah.
- [36:10]
A
And I think that there has to be so much credit given for people that have to work their way up to just, like, the zero.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And the way it manifested in me was that how I presented myself on the outside, you may not have realized that how I felt on the inside was, like, looking for that validation in so many different ways and almost like feeling. You know, it's like if you produce something or do something and people like it, but you go home and you're like, God, that was like 50% as good as it really could have been. But everyone's telling you, man, I love that show you worked on. I love that new line you created. And you're like, that ain't it, though. That's how I felt all the time. People would come up to me and say to me, like, man, you're killing it, rich. Like, look at these rooms you're in. Or look at what you working on. Look who you're managing. And I would think to myself, like, man, I'm not even half of the value that I could be right now. And how do I get myself confident enough to start to impose that more? What I realize now was that, like, not sure if that wasn't just the journey. Right. Like, if I was 100% of who I thought I wanted to be at that time, like, where would I be now? Right. And if I had told myself I was and acted that way, what would that have done? Right. And I think that was just the process. It's just what was happening. Internal was so, so much, you know? It was just so much.
- [37:42]
A
Just so much.
- [37:43]
B
Yeah.
- [37:43]
A
Do you mind me asking, what. What's the relationship with your mother now? Like, where did you get to with her? And did she recover?
- [37:50]
B
No. So it's really. It's really sad. Because, you know, she ran out of all her money. And I supported her at a young age. And when I say supported her, it meant however I needed to get money. Like, it wasn't like I had her on payroll. It was just however I needed to get money. She never really got off drugs. She wasn't always there mentally. And the last, like, eight, nine years, it was just too much to have her or have around my children. But I still provided for her financially. I got her a place. I had an aide for her. Her mind kept going. And then about five, six months ago, or maybe a little longer, I ended up finding her in her apartment. Then she went into ICU and then into hospice. And I will tell you, though, that by the time she was in hospice, she had lost her mind completely. And it was the most docile that I had ever seen her ever in my life. She was sweet. She was like a child. The conversations weren't that real, but there was one or two songs we used to listen to together in some of our good times. And I played them and she started singing them. And I was kind of like. Like, man, I needed this a little bit.
- [39:05]
A
You needed closure?
- [39:06]
B
Yeah, a little bit.
- [39:07]
A
Did you get it in that moment?
- [39:10]
B
I'm just getting it now. What happened was, is they called me from the nursing home. They told me that, you know, she had stopped reacting to the stimuli or whatever, the stimulation, so that meant she was going to pass soon. So I said, can I come tonight? You know, and they were like, yeah, you'll be fine. And then they called me and they told me she passed. So I, like, ran up there, drove up there, and this is weird. I hope, like, your viewers don't think this is weird, but when I went there, it was really cold. Like, the world is cold sometimes. Like, I said to them, you know, where's my mom? They said, she's in her room, right? She had passed. They had cleaned that motherfucker out, except for her on the bed. Like, everything was already gone. I was just like, this is crazy. So I went in there, and I didn't think I could be this person. Like, if I heard myself or someone tell me the story, I'd be like, what do you mean? You talk to your mother after she passed? But, like, something came over me, and I sat there and talked to her for, like, half hour. And I remember I said to her, like, I know you. Somewhere deep down inside, you did your best, and, like, you didn't want this, and I do know you loved me. I said to her, I Was like, I do know you love me. Like, damn. You never showed it, like, but I do know you love me. And then I thought to myself, damn, this is the first time she's ever not interrupted me when I was talking. I was like, I've never remembered talking to my mom so honestly, without her yelling at me or saying something. And I said goodbye. She wanted to be cremated. And I haven't done anything with the ashes yet because I can't fully recall something positive yet. So I'm trying to remember something positive. So what's happening now is, as my mind is clearing more and I'm no longer mad, I have started having these things, like, moments or memories of some good things. So I think I know what I want to do with it, but I'm at peace with it now. Like, for sure.
- [40:59]
A
It's heartbreaking.
- [41:01]
B
Yeah.
- [41:02]
A
It's a lot, isn't it? My God.
- [41:04]
B
Yeah.
- [41:05]
A
Oh, I didn't mean to get that deep. No, it's just. It's one of those things. I think that, first of all, I was not expecting you to say that at all.
- [41:14]
B
Sorry.
- [41:15]
A
I was expecting you to be like, yes, I fully got closer. It's all fine. And onto the music business. I know. But I think that your story will really resonate with people. And, you know, it's so interesting, because when these things are real and, you know, when you have these really tough relationships, they don't just repair. It doesn't all just fall into place. I think it's kind of pretty amazing that you decided to have that conversation in the room like that. I'm sure you're gonna look back in years to come and be so happy that you had that moment.
- [41:49]
B
Yeah, I feel that way.
- [41:50]
A
No doubt. I'm gonna call you in a couple of months and figure out what you did with those ashes. For sure. What do you think? Because you have two kids.
- [41:58]
B
Yeah.
- [41:59]
A
In terms of the type of father that you have and how that relationship with your mom really informs that. Like, where are you at? Like, what kind of parent and what kind of decisions are you making based on how you were raised?
- [42:16]
B
Absolute love and support at any cost, no matter what. And it's not. I'm not perfect. And there's certain things that I do where I find myself almost projecting on my kids, you know, getting on them about certain things that I'm really still getting on myself about. But they know how deeply I love them. They like. You know, everyone says that, but I absolutely adore my daughters, like, truly. And I will forever do anything in the world for them, and there's nothing they can tell me that's too crazy. There's no feeling or emotion. And pouring love into them and seeing them grow up and telling them that I'm doing the best I can, you know, and not necessarily being perfect and owning things that I do very quickly after and talking to them like a real person, you know, Like, I don't have a guide, so all I can do is I'm a good person and I talk to them like a real person, and I listen to them. And I know how important it is to just have that.
- [43:20]
A
Yeah.
- [43:20]
B
Like, just have that. You ask somebody, you know, I'm with you, period. I got you. You will figure life out. I got you, though. 100%. That's kind of a all I need in life. So, like, to be able to know that they know that, and to be able to know that I can do this forever, you know? Like, I had a hard time when they went from being like babies to, like. Cause the iPhone will fuck you up, because you just scroll through that phone and there's like, there's your kid. 12 years ago, in one second, you die. And I remember. I have such a insane. Like, my memory is so clear all the way through my life that it's almost like a gift and a curse, because it would make me feel so sad about them getting older. It would be like, God, I used to have breakfast with my older daughter every day. We used to call it, like, breakfast with Bella. And then all of a sudden, like, that's over. I collected snow globes. Every city I went to for her, no matter where I was in the world. And then one day, she was like, I'm trying to get rid of these snow globes. And I'm like, God damn. That was like.
- [44:22]
A
Say this to me.
- [44:23]
B
I was like, 75 of them.
- [44:26]
A
So you're like, so you don't want
- [44:27]
B
one from my next place? You don't wanna keep one? And then all of a sudden, I was like, you know what? So what? Like, they're not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. So let's just, like, enjoy every moment of this.
- [44:38]
A
No. And here's the thing. It's like, you eclipse the curse, right? It's like, for so many people, they aren't able to move on from what is, like, classic childhood trauma. It stops people in their tracks. You can either transform that and you can create an entirely different legacy with your own family, or it stays with you and it destroys you. And I've seen it on Both sides. I grew up in a place that was full of that, in my own family. And so I really believe that what you've done, not just becoming successful, but having this incredibly successful family when you had absolutely no basis, no example of that, that's the most successful thing that could possibly happen. That you're raising two brilliantly secure women that are going to go out into this world now. It doesn't matter what I am loved. I'm loved by my dad. Forget what that does. Like just for their business and work and professional lives. It's like how you move through the world when that's your starting point is something I will always be mad jealous of. So good for you for being an amazing, amazing father.
- [45:45]
B
Well, I tell you, the good thing was, is I've been able to really establish that with my father the last few decades of my life, especially when my kids were born. And you know, sadly, you know, my father was a victim of my household too in a lot of ways. And you know, I had no sympathy for him at first. Cause it was like, damn, you're really leaving me here with her. But as I got older, like, you know, everyone's equipped to do what they can do. And I knew he loved me always. So like knowing that is really like sometimes with your father all you really need. But our relationship is so strong right now. You know, he's one of those rare people that, you know, has this like understanding of taste and curation and style. You know, you don't meet like many 80 some odd year old men that have had that their like whole life like that. And that's really rubbed off of me from like a professional standpoint too.
- [46:42]
A
I think it's unbelievable when you realize what you got from your parents. Like it or loathe it, you know. Yeah, I think about it all the time. Breakfast can set the tone for the entire day. And Purely Elizabeth makes it even better. Especially with their original ancient grain granola. Purely Elizabeth started in the kitchen when founder Elizabeth Stein set out to create foods that don't force a choice between incredible taste and thoughtfully chosen ingredients. And that mission still guides the brand today. Purely Elizabeth granolas are known for their signature salty, sweet, crunchy custards. Made with ancient grains, superfood nuts and seeds and no artificial flavors. Every bite delivers a bold flavor and satisfying crunch. All Purely Elizabeth products are certified gluten free with plenty of non gmo, vegan and keto friendly options. And with so many flavours available, there's something for every taste. The original Ancient Grain granola is made with organic oats, ancient grains and superfood seeds like chia canoa and amaranth. Baked with coconut oil and simply sweetened with coconut sugar, it's perfect with yogurt or ice cream or straight from the bag. This it purely elizabeth elizabeth.com and use code ASPIRE at checkout for 20% off and to taste the obsession yourself. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp International. Women's Day is this month and it's an opportunity to celebrate and recognize the women in our lives and everything that they carry. The visible responsibilities are one thing, but the emotional load is another. Between work, relationships, families and expectations, a lot gets managed quietly and often without much space to process it. Celebrating strength matters, but so does support. And therapy can be a place to set boundaries, sort through pressure and create more balance. Not because something is wrong, but because carrying a lot deserves care. BetterHelp connects you with fully licensed therapists in the US who follow a strict code of conduct. You complete a short questionnaire and with over 12 years of experience and more than 30,000 therapists on the platform, they'll match you with someone aligned with your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. BetterHelp has served over 6 million people worldwide with an average 4.9 out of 5 rating for live sessions based on more than 1.7 million reviews. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com aspire that's B E T T E R h e l lp.com aspire. All right, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about you and work because at this point you're out there hobnobbing, mingling with the hoi polloi, as we would say in England. But it was Jay Z, so we'll call it what it is. And you have this amazing success with this film, right? And I just want to talk a little bit about because you're your career and your business has been about these kind of transitions that you've made away from just being and I say just, but away from being just a partner to talent from a kind of manager, agent point of view, it's been about actually creation of businesses. So can you talk me through how that's happened and what that looked like in the early days for you?
- [50:05]
B
It was all really like every year is like a very clear phase in my career. So it was like I went to do music supervision on these shows. I started Doing a handful of shows, all unsigned artists and producers. I started managing some of the producers. Then Mark asked me to partner with him on his label. I started working with him. We had a studio down in Soho. Amy Winehouse recorded in that studio. Wale J. Cole, all these people were coming through, and it became this, like, creative vibe in the city. I also managed to DJs, so I was in the clubs every night. Samantha Ronson, mark Ronson. Q Tip D. Nice. Had all these DJs that I was managing. And then I started managing artists. So it was like everything was like, continuing to evolve. Mark at that point was building this incredible career for himself. And he had a separate manager now at this point, and we had the label. And I think in my mind I was like, damn, we're gonna build something insane. But, you know, Mark needed to, to build Mark at that point. And the label was cool and we had a great reputation, but it wasn't rapidly growing at the pace that I wanted. We just were kind of seen as this, like, creative hotbed down in Soho. We had a studio at 19 Mercer. And it was amazing. It was my first, like, this is my office. But after I did Fade to Black, I got really close with all those guys, and when they started Roc Nation, I was able to get a bit of a structure for myself in my life for the first time. And also just to be around people that I was so enamored by.
- [51:34]
A
Totally.
- [51:35]
B
You know, and when you want validation and that's what you're craving. And like, that was another way for me to feel really validated, you know what I'm saying? So I went over there and at that point, I was just like a music manager.
- [51:47]
A
But it really was the glory days, right? Like, I remember Roc Nation wasn't just like, you know, another label. It was like Roc Nation, Jay Z, J. Brown, Tay Tay. Like, it was such a thing just to be around and in those guys orbit was a big deal. Yeah, they were doing things.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah, without question. I mean, it was, was a, it was a complete gift. Like, I, I am not where I am today if I didn't have that moment in my life. I learned so much from watching, you know, and being around and being in an environment and, and also being challenged, you know, Like, I had, I, I was challenged. And I, I, I thought I knew what hard work was and I thought I understood how to be a professional.
- [52:28]
A
There was another gear, but I didn't
- [52:30]
B
have that skill set. And also I was emotional. I was too emotional back then.
- [52:35]
A
Oh, say more, please. What do you mean you were too emotional?
- [52:39]
B
I just took the wrong way, you know, and I. I overthought things and, you know, I took things personally, to be honest.
- [52:48]
A
And you didn't realize how that was negatively affecting you in. In business?
- [52:52]
B
Yeah, I was. Like, I was softer, honestly. And, like, I'm don't feel that way anymore, so I can say that candidly. Like, again, you could have asked 100 people if that's how they saw me. 99% of them would have been like, no, he ain't soft. That dude is killing it. He's doing great. But I knew. I knew that I wasn't even a fraction of who I wanted to be and what I was. But I still had residue. Like, I was still in it. It was still chaotic with my mom. It was chaotic with her till when I found her in her apartment, it never, ever, ever, ever stopped. Stop. Daily messages, chaos, police at her house. The craziest. It never stopped, ever. So it always was in my head, and it was just a lot. And I had overcome the anxiety attacks, but, like, I was like, you know,
- [53:47]
A
it was inside, and there's a heaviness. Like, it's your mom. Like, there's no escaping it. Your mom's your mom.
- [53:52]
B
Literally, figuratively, no escape.
- [53:54]
A
No escape in it. But you managed to have some distance in your own family, because at some point, it's like you were working, you were making moves. Like, you figured out a way to, like, transition away from that chaos and build.
- [54:07]
B
Yeah, I started building something. I was like, you know, I don't want to make it. Like, I. I functioned. I got married young. I was operating at a very high level in some regard, but I had such big dreams for myself. I wanted so much. I wanted. It wasn't money, it was regard. It was just feeling like I'm accomplishing some shit that my peers were respecting. And that motivated me. You know, like, that might not be for everybody, but that motivated me. And I didn't have the skills yet. I didn't. You know, the thing is, is, like, you can meet young entrepreneurs and hustlers and all these, like, business minds, and some of them are just unicorns, right? Mark Zuckerberg, unicorn. Jay Z, unicorn. Michael Rubin, a unicorn. Kevin Durant, a unicorn. They have to figure out life and emotions too, but they're unicorns in that, like, they have the perfect combination and it works. And they're. You can't replicate that. You just can't. So for me, it was like I knew what I wanted to be, but I had no understanding of anything. I had no understanding of how the world worked. Really. It was all a blur. All I had was a high eq, a good sense of humor, a good hustle, and a lot of friends. And I carried myself through life like that for a long time. But ultimately, some of those moments where I felt like, damn, why am I not moving any further? Why is this not happening for me? You know, I could have went one or two ways. I could have rested on my laurel, said, well, I'm making good money, man. You know, do some other shit that wasn't going to be it. Or I could say, like, how am I going to get better? Like, how am I going to get better?
- [55:53]
A
Do you think that's the secret to your success, that you have looked at ways? Because again, I feel like when you operate in circles where seemingly, like, everyone is making it, like, sometimes I can just, like, put you in your place. You're like, okay, well, I'm not one of them. So I'm going to stay in this comfortable place. What inside you has just kept you moving and learning and keep going and going, going.
- [56:16]
B
Purpose. I have an understanding of what this all is like. We're unfortunately all here for a period of time, period. And if you think about every experience you have in life and, like, you think about, you go on a vacation and you're like, how am I going to make this experience the most valuable for myself? So maybe I want to get a massage or I want to bring some friends with me. I hope the sun is out so I can get a tan. I want to try some good restaurants. All you're doing is trying to do the best you can for that 10 days you're on vacation and make that the best experience you can have. Life is that this is one long experience and moment. And my job in this is to make sure that my children can enjoy theirs for as long as they can and give them everything I can emotionally, financially. If it works for you, it's not always going to be what everyone can do. But. But for me, financially, for my children, experiences. But for me, I'm like, I'm here. Like, I'm not going to put this plan in place where, like, I'm going to work till I'm this age and I want to then get a house there. I'm not scripting it. That's not how I'm going to live my life. I'm going to try to experience as much and enjoy as much and go as far as I can, meet as many people as I can and create as much that I'm recognized for as I can. So that feeling is constant. I wake up with it every single day. I think about it every single day. What more can I do for myself, for my business, for my family? And I can only do it at my pace. And what I used to do is try to keep up with other people, and now I'm like, I'm not even paying attention to anybody else. And we all tell ourselves a story. We all paint a picture. You tell yourself a story of what your childhood is. And if you'd asked me all these things seven years ago, would have been different. Different. And the story keeps changing because it's your reality and your truth. And my thing is, is I used to tell myself certain stories about myself, and that's how I felt better. Now I tell myself the truth. And when I tell myself the truth, I know exactly what more I have to do and what I have to strive for and what I'm not. Like, I will not make myself delusioned into thinking this is something it's not. I don't go tell somebody that my business is bigger than it is. I don't tell somebody that I'm different than who I am. I'm really confident with where my feet are, but it makes me want to just keep going all the time.
- [58:35]
A
I feel like you just said so many things there that people need to sit with and listen. Like, this is the moment where you have to, like, rewind the podcast for exactly about 90 seconds and go through that again, because you said so many golden things there. But, like, what stands out to me, like, when you talk about thinking about your life and viewing your life in the same way that you would a vacation, like, reading, really, like, thinking, I'm gonna do the best that I can. But then this being on your timeline, like, that is golden. And that's what I wish I knew. When I was 22 years old, because I was always on somebody else's timeline, you were in this kind of, like, comparison game constantly, and it just doesn't work. And I feel like the moment you wake up, and usually it happens, like, too late. But, you know, for me, it was, like, mid-30s. It's a game changer. You're like, it's just me. Be me. Like, nothing else. Nothing else matters. I'm gonna just do everything that to be exactly where I want to be. And I'm not in a comparison game. It's so unbelievably freeing. It's crazy. Talk to me a Little bit about this kind of transition that you made in your career, because I want to understand a little bit more about how you end up, like, fully in sports and this relationship with kd.
- [59:51]
B
Yeah. So I had met Kevin while I was a music manager through Wale, who was an artist I was representing. And being such a big sports fan, like, I really, really went out of my way to, like, make sure Kevin and I connected and that we had, like, the ability to maintain a relationship even though we weren't working together. And around 2012, I just felt like I was. I was operating with a bit of a ceiling. You know, if someone told you there was a ceiling, you would lose your mind. There can be no ceiling to where you go and what you want do to. And I don't know if anybody put that in front of me. Wasn't like, the ceiling was created by someone else, but I felt like, there, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? And I'm not even. I'm not even like, fulfilled. I'm not having fun. And I was managing talented people at the time. I was managing Solange, who was just glorious, who I still love to this day. And talk to Meek Mill, who's this young star? At the time I was managing, I was working J. Cole with Wale. I still had business with Mark, even though he was like Mark Ronson now. And I was working for Jay Z, for God's sakes. Right.
- [61:03]
A
That pretty tip of the top.
- [61:05]
B
It all felt good.
- [61:06]
A
You were good.
- [61:06]
B
Right. But it wasn't giving me that feeling. It wasn't necessarily, to use my vacation analogy as, like, I wasn't having a great vacation. I just wasn't loving it like that. And I thought to myself, what has always brought me joy, like, and that's sports and being around it. And, you know, Jay was always amazing because when I asked if I could get, you know, into sports a little bit, he said, you know, I think we're going to build something. And they gave me the ability to go do that. And as soon as I jumped into that, I was like, oh, this whole outfit fits.
- [61:39]
A
Yes.
- [61:39]
B
Like, everything fits. This is what I'm supposed to do. And also, not only am I supposed to do it, I'm joining this world at a time where. Where the model that the music industry had worked with and the model in which hip hop had worked with this, like, creator economy, really came from hip hop, in my opinion, where you had this star at the center and the entire ecosystem around you. And I get it. I speak that language. And Put me in room with any athlete ever, and you'll think I was an agent for 30 years. So finally I felt like, damn, I'm equipped for this. In a different level, ceiling broke. I felt like, okay, cool. Ceiling is no longer there for me. I can keep going. And I felt comfortable from day one and every relationship, whether it's in business or personal, you can't explain it, but when you meet that person, whatever it is, whoever the way the world was supposed to work, it's like it just. It fits. Kevin and I just fit right away,
- [62:41]
A
which is so amazing to me because you look at you and Kevin, you clearly have this amazing and beautiful partnership and an incredible business portfolio that you've built together. I wonder if. And I could be totally off track. Is there. Did you ever feel any sense of responsibility to him? Like, in a way of, like, I'm going to be something to him that I didn't have in my own life, whether it be a mentor, a partner? Like, what happened between you two? That it just was.
- [63:09]
B
So the thing is, is, like, I know the way the sports world works, and I understand when you're an athlete of that caliber, what people tell you and what people tell you the right thing for you to do is. And I know for a fact that majority of the people around him were probably not telling him, you should lock in with Rich. He's a music manager who's just moving over to being an agent. You should make him your guy.
- [63:36]
A
Yeah, that's not really the top of your game move.
- [63:39]
B
No, there's no way that someone would have told him he let go of other agents. They may have said, yeah, I understand. Why are you hanging with you? He's a lovely man.
- [63:48]
A
Love it, but you can do better.
- [63:49]
B
Yeah, it can't be your guy. He didn't care from day one. And because of that, I always feel responsible for him in every way, shape, or form. Now he gave me this, like, wind at my sails that I don't think I had ever had. And I realize now, looking back on, I needed that. Right. I needed somebody that I admired in such a level that believed in me and saw me in that way. And Mark did that earlier in my career, too, because Mark saw me in the clubs and used to be like, I like the way you move in the rooms. I want you to run my label with me. So that was the first time I was like, oh, shit. Even Jamie Patricoff saying to me, hey, I want you to sit in this meeting for this show, or Jay letting me produce this film, all of that was like that. But when Kevin Durant, at this point in his career with where I was at, was like, nah, I want you to be my guy, I just was like, man, I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure this works.
- [64:49]
A
I wonder what made you so confident that you could run a business with someone like him? Because you haven't just stuck to a traditional representation model. You also have an investment vehic. Like, what even gave you the idea that a you could do that, but that you could do it together with him?
- [65:06]
B
The thing was, is, like, when I started working with him and we decided to work together, like, exclusively at that point, I really wasn't necessarily motivated to sign other talent. I was really motivated to keep going deeper into what was possible for Kevin. And. And I. And sometimes I feel like when you want to figure out a real move, a power move, and you want to figure out what it is that you're going to do, you have to simplify everything in your mind and streamline everything. So the first part of our business was about making it as small as humanly possible. So we were like, all right, is your money right? Do we have good attorneys around you? What are we doing philanthropically in the community? Are your parents good? Are your family good? All right, cool. Let's deal with your basketball, like, situation contract. Let's get sure that's right. Your Nike business, your anchor. Let's make sure that's right. Okay, cool. All this is operating. You make a ton of money. Everything we do now from this point forward, I hope you want to do it, because nothing else in your life do you have to do.
- [66:11]
A
But this is an exceptional piece of advice because people really overcomplicate things. And what you said there was so beautiful because you said as. When you are trying to do something, like simplifying things is the first thing. And I think that that is amazing because that can apply to an entrepreneur, to a startup, to somebody taking on a leadership role in a company, like simplifying it down to the fundamentals and saying, the Nike relationship is in check and my family's in check. And this piece is like, boom, boom, boom. And that is. That can apply to anything. It's an amazing approach because that stops you from being overwhelmed, and it allows you to. Once the. Once the kind of fundamentals are good, then you can figure out all of this other stuff. And it kind of doesn't really matter if it doesn't work that well either, because you still got the baseline. Without question, we got the Good stuff. The core of it is down.
- [67:03]
B
Yeah. And we got reps. Like, as a, as partners, you gotta earn that trust over and over again. You gotta get reps. You gotta figure out how you both dance. Like, how does this work? Like, how do you receive when I communicate? How do I hear what you're saying to me that you wanna dance, want. And how do we make strategic decisions on things that you are motivated by that you want to do? You know, a lot of times talent finds themselves on this hamster wheel of like, ah, so many things I gotta do.
- [67:35]
A
They're inundated. Their deal flows crazy because everyone wants them in everything. But how do you guys decide what's going into 35V and what's not? Because I'm sure you have so many opportunities.
- [67:46]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's just evolved over time. When, when Kevin played for the warriors and I lived out in the bay half my time. Our proximity to Silicon Valley and these just like incredible founders and incredible VCs afforded us great deal flow.
- [68:02]
A
Did you do some good deals?
- [68:04]
B
We did.
- [68:04]
A
Did you catch some good stuff from the tech bros?
- [68:07]
B
Yeah, we caught some good. We caught some good. Some good unicorns from the tech bros. And we missed on a lot, but we, we learned a lot. And I wasn't outside my. We stayed really early stage. We made a lot of bets. There was a lot of learnings. I felt like in a lot of ways we the pay to play. And I believe in that model at an angel seed level. I got founders that became part of my network. I learned about different companies and different approaches to business. It was probably my best education to that point in my life. Just being able to go deep with some of these founders and understand the mechanism which their business was built and to learn from these different VCs. And that whole experience just opened my eyes to everything. You know, it's like our whole foundation and our whole philanthropic footprint was kind of built from dinner with Lorene Jobs and Ron Conway. And just like me having no fear asking how we should approach things. And it was just an incredible time in my life. And I almost feel like that was my college, those three years there.
- [69:07]
A
No doubt. What do you. Which of your business decisions almost like is the best reflection of how far you've come as a kid with no blueprint?
- [69:16]
B
That's a really, really good question. I would say navigating Kevin's free agency in 2016 just because of the magnitude of it, that it was really on me that there wasn't somebody else. You know, there's A lot of times when you're younger, it's really easy to just assume. It's like when people say, like, oh, that'll never happen, or my mom said, that's not true. And that's really all you need to know. So as long as you know if there's someone else that will figure it out or someone else that might, like, solve it for you, you can operate with, like, a little bit of, like, comfort. But that really made me realize, like, all right, I'm going to operate this free agency, and I'm going to have the owners of all these teams and star players and legends come to meet with Kevin and I, and I'm going to talk on his behalf, and I'm going to represent him and this next step in his career. Career. And when we got through that, it was kind of like, okay, I see where we can go together now, and I can see. See what I can do.
- [70:18]
A
Tell me a little bit more about what you're building together with Boardroom and how that differentiates from the competition.
- [70:26]
B
Yeah. So the way we did this was as 35 Ventures was being built, that, like I said, became the home for our investments and Kevin's brand business and some sports investing and fun things we experiment on, like a restaurant or a hospitality venture all fall on 35 ventures. Boardroom, to me, was meant to. You know, when you think about the publishing world.
- [70:48]
A
Yeah.
- [70:49]
B
You think about Vogue and GQ and Vanity Fair and Forbes. Right. So the narrative around that business for a long time has been like, that that model's broken. And the way it was doesn't work, like, exactly the way today it. But the strength of those brands and, like, the premium value of those brands always stuck with me. I thought it was such an incredible connection like that. The way people wanted to read these books and these magazines. Digital media is not like that.
- [71:20]
A
No, you're totally right, because Forbes is still Forbes, Vogue is still Vogue.
- [71:24]
B
It means something.
- [71:24]
A
Yeah.
- [71:25]
B
So for me, it was like, I want to build a brand. Today. The model will be different. Different. How we generate revenue and how we create our audience will be different. But I want to build a brand that can sustain, that embodies this culture today, this intersection, this world of sport and technology and entertainment. This world where, you know, David Blitzer, and David Blitzer knows 21 Savage, and 21 Savage knows David Solomon, and David Solomon knows Sabrina Ionescu. And to an outsider, they're like, how. How does all that make. Well, we know how that makes sense. And that world is so powerful and I want to be the brand and the voice and the storyteller in that world. And we're building it block by block. And I've been methodical and patient and intentional, and it's working. And that's what's exciting for me.
- [72:14]
A
It's really working, isn't it? It's really tracking. Because I have to say, I knew about Boardroom before I knew that it
- [72:20]
B
was me, but it was me.
- [72:22]
A
And that's what to me, it's like not me supporting my friend. This was just like a thing that I was like, well, this is just part of my media mix now. This is just something that I have to read and understand and be part of. And I think I was on some list somewhere that I was very happy about, but you know what I mean? But it took me a while before I was like, oh, oh, that's my rich. Like, I had no idea, really, because I saw you in a different world. So, I mean, congratulations to you. It's something pretty amazing. By March, the new year energy has settled. This is usually the point where things either slow down or they get real structured. Now what I've chosen to do time and time again is put the right infrastructure in place so you're not rebuilding the plane every single week. That is why I use Shopify. It's the platform we run Good American on, and it's the same platform I trust anytime I'm building something new. What I value most is how everything lives in one place. Online sales, social channels, pop ups. In person, it's all centralized. I can open the app and immediately see what's moving, what's trending, and where customers are coming from. You don't need a big team to look polished either. The templates are clean, customizable, and the AI tools help with things like product descriptions, content planning, reporting. It's like adding operational support without adding complex complexity. So here's the real question. What's one system you could set up this month that would make the rest of your year so much easier? Whether you're testing a new idea or building the next big thing, Shopify is where you start. Visit shopify.com aspire to launch your brand. Why does every recipe I try need 18 ingredients, including a jar of something paste I'll never use again, but will sit my fridge. Fridge for nine months. I just want dinner in the oven fast. That's why I love Blue Apron's new one Pan Assemble and bake meals. They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped. All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers. Just delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more. Before we wrap, a quick reminder that Start With Yourself is available for pre order and tickets for the live shows are available now. Starting April 15th, we're coming to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, D.C. boston, Atlanta and London. Visit emmigrid.com for tickets and full tour details. I cannot wait. I want to ask you a bit about leadership because you don't get to where you are in life without being a good leader and having people that are willing to follow you. Is there some type of mantra or something that you have that informs the type of leader that you are now?
- [75:19]
B
It's always evolving. I will say, and not to gas you, but a lot of things that you have said on your show, I and some of my colleagues at my office have shared with each other because you have an incredible perspective and a kind of practical point of view on things that have been helpful for me, even how I look at people that work for me and how I have to communicate with them. So I appreciate that. You really.
- [75:45]
A
Thank you, Mano.
- [75:45]
B
You really do say some incredible things that have helped me as a CEO and a leader. I think the reason I've gotten better now, I think over the last few years, is I'm always going to be kind. That's just the way I am. Right?
- [76:02]
A
Goes a bloody long way. Don't be an. It's a great leadership lesson for everyone.
- [76:08]
B
I'm always going to be kind and I'm always going to respect the other part of your life. Right. You work for, for me, but you have a whole other part of your life. Your family, your insecurities, your responsibilities. I'm always going to respect those. A lot of people when I was coming up would say, man, I don't want to hear about that shit. Like everybody got shit, you got to work. And I, I, I believe you can do both. But I respect that. I respect it. And I, and I use that for me to, again, like I said earlier, start to look at the people that I'm leading and say, wow, you know, let me make sure that I understand the full scope of what they're going through. Right.
- [76:51]
A
Well, you have empathy. That comes from experience.
- [76:53]
B
Yeah. But where I've changed and where I've gotten better and it took me a while was when your whole career is built on being liked and Being connected and being welcomed and having this robust network of people from all walks of life to be able to make really harsh, cold decisions, to let go of people, to decide to say no to something. It was a little bit of a challenge for me because my instinct was always to make sure everybody was good with me all time. The fair and it's changing because I realize that what I'm building is what I wanted to build. It's something that I feel really proud of and that I think could be special. And what I know now is that sadly, to get to where I want to go, I'm going to have to allow myself to make decisions that people won't always like me.
- [77:48]
A
Yeah, fair enough. I mean, can't be a people pleaser and a leader. I mean, I say this all the time. I wonder if just your experience. Because you seem to be someone who has a pretty good grasp of what's going on in the wider culture. When you think about your organization and you look at the men and the women and let me tell you, there'll be a lot of women that are listening to this show. Do you see big differences in the way that men move their way through their careers, your companies, and the way that women do in like leadership perspective, in the style, like. I just wonder as a man in leadership and running a company, what you think?
- [78:29]
B
See, to be honest, this is going to be maybe controversial. I don't think men work as hard.
- [78:36]
A
Just. That's not what I was expecting you to say. Tell me why say more. Keep going.
- [78:43]
B
I don't know.
- [78:43]
A
From my experience, you don't think men work as hard. I mean, for the business or like in the way they come into the office. You think women work harder?
- [78:53]
B
Yeah, I really, really do.
- [78:56]
A
I ain't gonna disagree with that.
- [78:58]
B
Listen, obviously it's not a universal thing.
- [79:00]
A
No, absolutely. This is all about just our experience and our own observations. Yeah, for sure.
- [79:05]
B
Yeah, I really do.
- [79:07]
A
Which is kind of insane considering that, you know, if you were to look at it statistically, women move up a lot slower. So maybe something
- [79:18]
B
reflection of our society.
- [79:20]
A
Isn't it just.
- [79:21]
B
Yeah, but it's just.
- [79:22]
A
But the facts are the facts and the numbers are the numbers. And I think that, listen, I'm the first person responsibility for behaviors that affect the way that women are treated in business. Because I think that it's my responsibility to bring that to our consciousness and our attention. But it would not be an unfair reflection to say that women work unbelievably hard compared to the opposite sex. And yet the ways that they get promoted are not nearly as fast.
- [79:50]
B
Without question, without question.
- [79:52]
A
We're gonna move on. Just saying, people, I wanna talk a little bit about money. Cause you know, I love to talk about money. Your relationship to money as a child, what did that look like and how does it impact the way that you think about money now?
- [80:06]
B
It was such a source of conflict in my house. It was such a fight over money. My family talked about it. They talked about what they didn't have, what they did have, who didn't give them something, what wasn't fair. They'd always made me really uncomfortable, comfortable. But I always wanted to make money. And I started, as I got older, realizing that, like, I want to make a lot of money. I like making money, I really do. But being stressed about money and having the fear that you can't pay your credit card or your, you can't even like withdraw money from your atm, that's the worst feeling in the world. It's an absolute deflating feeling. And I have been there. And my first goal was to not have to feel that way. That was my first goal. And because I don't feel that way anymore, my relationship with money is secondary to my relationship with my career and my profession.
- [81:09]
A
Fair.
- [81:09]
B
I want to work hard enough so my kids never have to feel that ever. And their kids, that'd be great. I don't want it to be a part of a conversation in my household. And it never is. I think that's a really unhealthy environment to create. And I think you should get rewarded and valued for your work. And I feel like I deserve to be rewarded and valued for my work. And I will advocate for like, getting what I think I deserve. And that has taken time too, because, you know, when you're coming up, you don't know if you see yourself exactly that way. Right. Every first check you make, you're like, God damn, back of your mind, I can't believe they paid me that. And then all of a sudden you start to realize like, n, you're worth more than that. I mean, I took a walk, I, I, I took a walk over the summer with Reuben and, and he said to me, you got to start asking for three times more for every deal. And it was like so simple, but it was like a.
- [82:00]
A
Sounds like Ruben.
- [82:01]
B
Yeah. And I was like, you damn right. Like, it's how you value yourself. So I think for me it's like, as long as I don't have to ever stress money and my family doesn't have Ever have to stress money, money. You'll be happy, I'll be happy.
- [82:12]
A
I tell you what, that's just such good advice from Ruben. I got very, very similar advice when I was a kid from the only person I knew who made money. And he was a football agent, soccer agent in England. And I was like, I just don't make enough money from my deals. And I work so hard and I put so much in. And he's like, what'd you charge? I was like, 10%. He was like, charge double.
- [82:30]
B
Yeah.
- [82:30]
A
And it worked. No one ever blinked. No one was ever like, you're taking 20%? I was like, I take 20%, I do these sponsorships. I take 20%. And. And it was like, I'm making double. Like, what? Sometimes you just don't know what you can do and what you can ask. And we all need a Ruben telling every now and again.
- [82:47]
B
It was so. But, you know, the most simple and practical responses that you usually get from super successful people really just always ring true.
- [82:57]
A
Totally, totally. Is Ruben someone you would consider a person you call a person you chat and talk to about business things?
- [83:05]
B
Yeah, a lot.
- [83:06]
A
I feel like he's that for so many people. Yeah, I call him.
- [83:09]
B
Yeah.
- [83:09]
A
He's generous with the information as well.
- [83:12]
B
He is, he is. And also, like, people like him refine their own skills in giving advice to people, too. So as you're giving someone feedback and advice, because I feel it too, when people come to me for advice, because I serve that purpose for so many people. I'm learning as I speak to people because I'm giving them advice and I'm like, taking an inventory while I'm giving them that advice. Like, am I doing that?
- [83:38]
A
Yeah. Am I actually listening to my own advice? What's the most expensive lesson that you've ever learned about money?
- [83:45]
B
I think when I, like when I was younger and I went from being a bookie and I stopped booking and I had a lot of cash, and I really thought I was Ace Rothstein from Casino for a while. And I started flying to the Bahamas and gambling. Gambling and just living recklessly with my money. And then one day I opened up that safe and there was nothing in there. And I was like, did I just spend all that fucking money? And it was pretty helpless feeling because I had never had it. And then it was gone. And I think I started to kind of value it a bit more at that point. Yeah, I think that's right.
- [84:20]
A
That'd be about right. Do you think that you took more financial risks early in your career or do you take more earlier?
- [84:28]
B
I didn't give a fuck. I invested in myself. I did whatever the fuck I had to do to be there. I used to think to myself, you know, what if I like, whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. If I gotta be in that room and it costs that I'm going, however I gotta do it. Yeah, I'll figure it out next week.
- [84:42]
A
Yeah, exactly. That's a great story. That was always my thing. I'll figure it out next week.
- [84:46]
B
Yep.
- [84:47]
A
I want to just talk to you a little bit about the future and legacy. And I hate to kind of put it in that way, but, you know, you can think about it as, like, growth or reflection. Is there any part of you that still feels like you have something to prove?
- [85:03]
B
100%. 100% to myself, to my family, to my peers? I feel that way all the time. Yeah. Feel that way all the time.
- [85:15]
A
Why? How so?
- [85:17]
B
Because I don't think I even understand how broken I was. Was. And I feel so proud of myself that I climbed out of it like I really do. It really should have and could have ended really bad. It was fucked up. And trying to get out of it and trying to prove myself to myself and to people around me became such a motivating and powerful feeling. So I can't ever let go of that ever again. I can't ever not feel that way. I can't ever feel like I don't have to prove myself to myself. And also, like, putting business aside, I would like to keep evolving as a human being and keep refining who I am and keep getting better. You know, I really want to keep getting better and keep figuring out how to communicate, but keep figuring out how to learn more, how to meet new people, take care of myself more.
- [86:20]
A
How much is that is for yourself versus for other people. When you talk about keep getting better, keep learning how to communicate, is that for you or is it for the people around you?
- [86:31]
B
It's for me because, listen, I think my kids will always benefit from me as a father continuing to get better as a person. But I think that, again, similar thing to what I was saying about, like, how I don't ever want to feel like there's no money in the account. I don't want to feel that feeling that I used to have as a kid, that fear and anxiety that I masked and went out into the world. I don't like feeling like that. I don't want my head spinning in chaos anymore. And I know life will. Things are going to happen in Life. But I really feel calm amidst all that now. And I think for me, it's like, if I can keep evolving and getting better and understanding myself and understanding the world and learning how to talk better to people, and then I just gonna feel better, like, why are we here if we're not gonna figure it out and keep evolving and understand.
- [87:23]
A
I couldn't agree with you more. I think that, like, the point of life is for you to continuously be in learning mode and for you continuous to continuously be getting better. And also, you know, in my old age, like, getting closer to yourself and understanding more about you and kind of quiet in that noise and understanding that this is how I do things, this is who I am, and these are the places that I need to work. That is the point. It's the entire point. What's the ultimate goal for you in business? When you think about 35B and boardroom, like, what are you trying to do now?
- [88:01]
B
So it's very clear goals, I would say, on both. You know, I think for 35V, Kevin worked his ass off his entire life to be who he is and to play at the level that he plays at. And he's taken care of, provided for so many people. And, you know, I think I always feel motivated to build opportunity for him, to build legacy for him. We're doing a ton of development in real estate in his hometown, and there's certain things I knew he always wanted to be a part of, whether it was investing in sports teams, that I feel a lot of pride in continuing to build for him and making sure that his legacy and his business is running for generations. That's my job as a manager. That's that manager hat on the boardroom side. I really want that feeling that, like they used to say that contractors had or construction people when they would drive into the big city with their kids and go, daddy built that building. I want a company that lasts and sustains. And because of that, I'm being very strategic with what I want the outcome to be. So there's certain companies that I'm eyeing that I would like to at some point partner, acquire, and help supercharge my business. And the way I'm thinking about it is not about about how much money they will give me. It's about will I be able to sustain and operate and grow within a bigger ecosystem. I think there's nothing cooler than being able to point in 20 years, 25 years, and say to, like, my grandkids, like, I built that magazine, that whatever the form that comes in Whatever your glasses are displaying to you, I built that or that brand that embodies this world and this in this, like, space that I love. I've loved it my whole life. I want something that lasts. And maybe I'm naive, right? And maybe it's just what it is, but that's what motivates me.
- [90:00]
A
Maybe you'll have exactly that. Yeah, I have no doubt. All right, we're going to move to some rapid fire questions. All right? I'm terrible at rapid fire because I don't do anything rapidly, so don't worry, they're not quick. All right, what is the most underrated business.
- [90:14]
B
Most underrated business? Skill? Patience.
- [90:17]
A
That's a goodie. Three things that you can't live without.
- [90:22]
B
Diet Coke, sadly. My phone, my fam. Gimme a Diet Coke. My phone and my fam.
- [90:30]
A
It's a Friday night. What's your favorite pizza spot in New York City?
- [90:36]
B
Either Lucali or Donna Antonio. Antonio.
- [90:40]
A
Two good answers. Is there a book that changed your life?
- [90:46]
B
The War of Art. Which?
- [90:48]
A
Art of War?
- [90:49]
B
No. The War of Art.
- [90:50]
A
The War of Art?
- [90:51]
B
Yeah.
- [90:52]
A
What is the War of Art?
- [90:53]
B
It's the opposite of the Art of War.
- [90:55]
A
Is it really?
- [90:55]
B
Yeah. And it's a small handbook. Yeah, you should read it, actually.
- [90:59]
A
Well, clearly I need to now because I was about to mess up your whole answer. The War of Art.
- [91:04]
B
Yeah.
- [91:04]
A
Okay. It's going to on the list for sure. All right. What is something that you used to aspire to that you no longer aspire to?
- [91:14]
B
I don't know. Because honestly, I've always aspired this. Like, I wanted to be around this world since I was young. I mean, I. I guess if there was one thing, maybe it was that, like, I thought that, like, not fame, but I thought that. That there was a certain level of, like, notoriety that you should have. And then success will come. And I think what's changed is, like, it's not as important to me, and it is clear that it comes with success. Right. It's like everyone knows who you are now and this is a result of your success. So I think I had that backwards for a little bit.
- [91:57]
A
That's a great opportunity answer. All right, last question for you. What is it that you most aspire to now?
- [92:06]
B
To be honest with you, I am really focused on, like, trying to figure out how to be best friends with my daughters. They're at a point in their life right now where we are super close and I adore them and I believe they adore me, but it's tough when you have teenage girls to like connect on every level. And I think for me it's like when I see friends of mine whose kids are their best friends, I feel like that's like what life is about. And I think I'm headed in that direction. But I really want to make sure I create an environment that allows that because I don't think I'll need anything else in life if later on in my life, my girls are my best, best friends.
- [92:55]
A
Beautiful. Best answer ever. You're amazing. Thank you my darling. I loved it. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Audacy. I'm your host emma greed, Ashley McShann, Derrick Brown and me. Our executive producers from Audacy, Leah Reese, Dennis, Asha Saludja, Lauren Legrasso Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele and Carlos Delgado Social media by Olivia Homan, Katherine Bale Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at the lead company and wme Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson, Rose, Tim Meekol, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G R E G. That's Aspire A S P I R E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website. Emagreed me.
- [94:23]
B
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