How Billionaires Are Destroying the Media (with Joy Reid)

Summary

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams
Episode 71: “How Billionaires Are Destroying the Media” (with Joy Reid)
Release Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the alarming concentration of media ownership in the hands of billionaires, examining how their interests are undermining journalistic integrity and, by extension, democracy itself. Stacey Abrams is joined by Joy Reid, political commentator, author, and independent media creator, for a candid, insightful discussion about the collapse of legacy newsrooms, the rise of propaganda, and how new independent voices can resist the slide toward autocracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl Halftime Show: Joy as Resistance

• [03:32 – 13:28]
• Stacey opens with reflections on Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl halftime performance as a celebration of joy and civil disobedience.
• Commentary on the symbolic use of sugar cane fields—connecting Puerto Rican heritage to shared experiences of labor and resilience across communities of color in America.
• Bad Bunny’s celebration as political: his tacit rebuke of ICE and traditional exclusion, and his nod to the ongoing crises in Puerto Rico.
• Abrams: “Darkness might feel inevitable, but joy is a choice that we have to make. Despite their villainy…he told the rest of us that we can choose joy. We can choose to acknowledge the darkness, but not let it consume us.” [08:22]
• Democracy is at “halftime” in a battle with authoritarianism—cultural moments matter in this struggle.

2. State of the Media: Billionaire Takeover and Democracy in Peril

• [19:29 – 25:55]
• The Washington Post is used as a case study—major layoffs and a rapid decline in local, foreign, and race coverage under Jeff Bezos.
• Joy Reid explains that oligarchs controlling media follow the Russian model post-democratization, where media is used as a tool to serve state interests and suppress dissent.
• Reid: “Why would a billionaire whose goal in life is to make money purchase an asset that he knew to be dying?... He bought that paper for a reason… When they pulled the endorsement of Kamala Harris, that was the first thing he did. Then… ‘Democracy Dies in Darkness’ went away... Now step five, all of the foreign coverage is essentially neutered. And then all the race coverage gone. No more DEI coverage, no more coverage about race.” [22:14]
• Media consolidation is not random—Reid lists parallels across CBS, Paramount, CNN, and more, linking them to defense contracts and ambitions for a “total surveillance society.”

3. From Hard News to Outrage Media: How the Business Model Evolved

• [25:55 – 37:21]
• Stacey historicizes the shift: From CNN’s hard news focus in early cable days to the rise of punditry and the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine in the 90s.
• Joy details how Fox News and MSNBC (originally created by Microsoft and GE) pivoted news toward amygdala-driven, partisan shouting matches.
• Anecdote: “Notice that CNN would have breaking news on everything, stuff that wasn’t even really breaking news. It kept you fired up emotionally so you would just keep watching.” [34:09]
• Fox, unlike MSNBC, is not bound by journalistic standards and can freely propagate misinformation.
• Social media further erodes informational integrity—users now “choose your own adventure,” selecting realities that match their biases.

4. Dangers for Democracy: Attacking and Replacing the Truth

• [37:21 – 41:42]
• Stacey frames it within her “10 steps to authoritarianism”: Step 6 is “attack the truth, reshape reality.”
• Joy discusses her transition from network TV to independent platforms: liberation from censorship but also new vulnerabilities, as distribution still depends on tech oligarchs.
• Fear of government pressure on platforms to enforce “balance,” which can mean forced amplification of extreme voices or misinformation.
• “It’s not that they ever told us what to say. It’s that you knew that you were gonna get a call if you said something… So you start to censor yourself.” [39:51]

5. The Role and Responsibility of Independent Voices

• [44:54 – 48:18]
• Stacey asks about the value of politician-hosted podcasts and hybrid news formats.
• Joy replies, “It’s more than necessary, it’s critical… We need both straight-up journalists… analysts… and then we also need to network ourselves. In isolation, we are not as powerful as we are when we are working in network and in community.” [46:08]
• As mainstream legacy infrastructure collapses, insiders and analysts—especially those with lived campaign or governing experience—become key informers and organizers.

6. Courage, Risk, and Speaking Out Under Authoritarian Threat

• [48:18 – 52:33]
• Stacey references Joy’s experience (almost getting fired for criticizing the Iraq war as a young Black journalist) and the intimidation facing activists today.
• Joy’s guidance for young people: Accept that America is experiencing a fascist moment, assess your own risk, and do something—silence is not an option.
• “I’ve been saying to people lately, the first step toward fighting autocracy is acceptance. We need to accept what we are… Right now, we’re Hungary. We’re close to Russia…The first step is acceptance… then you figure out what your comfort level is, and you act. But the only thing that’s not okay in this moment is doing nothing.” [50:44]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Media Oligarchs:
  “The media is being taken over and being brought under the ownership and control of a set of oligarchs whose interest is not democracy or truth or journalism. Their interest is aligning themselves with the autocrat…” — Joy Reid, [24:31]

• On Propaganda:
  “Step 6 is you attack the truth. And that by attacking the truth, you reshape reality… it’s about filling the void with propaganda and reshaping what people understand to be what actually is.” — Stacey Abrams, [37:21]

• On Independent Journalism:
  “We need both straight up journalists who just do what they do…you need people who can do analysis… but in isolation, we are not as powerful as we are when we are working in network and in community.” — Joy Reid, [46:23]

• On Resistance:
  “I’ve been saying to people lately, the first step toward fighting autocracy is acceptance… and then you act. But the only thing that’s not okay in this moment is doing nothing.” — Joy Reid, [50:44]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:32] – Stacey on Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl performance as cultural resistance
• [19:29] – Joy breaks down the collapse at the Washington Post and billionaire motives
• [27:43] – History of cable news and the shift to pundit-driven models
• [32:24] – Joy on CNN, Fox, and how cable news warped journalism
• [37:21] – Stacey explains “attacking the truth” as an authoritarian playbook move
• [38:43] – Joy on the perils and promise of post-network independent media
• [44:54] – Stacey and Joy discuss the crucial role of hybrid news voices and networking
• [48:18] – Reckoning with courage, safety, and resistance under the new regime
• [52:33] – Joy gives direct advice for young activists and those afraid to speak out

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Conclusion & Calls to Action

• Abrams emphasizes supporting quality journalism and especially Black media, citing an 80% revenue decline since the anti-DEI backlash.
• Calls to organize in media and activism: “As much as we talk about the 10 steps to authoritarianism and autocracy, part of the 10 Steps campaign is to talk about what are the 10 steps to not just surviving this moment, but to winning."
• Practical actions: subscribe to local media, support Black journalists via NABJ, and counter vaccine disinformation.

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Further Engagement

• Joy Reid’s work can be found at thejoyreedshow.com and her Substack, Joy’s House (joyannreid.com), where she provides context and “the tea” on current events.
• Stacey Abrams’s 10 Steps campaign at 10stepscampaign.org, with resources in English and Spanish.

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This episode is both a sobering warning and a rallying cry: understanding how billionaires are destroying the media is essential to resisting the current threats to democracy and to building more resilient, connected, and courageous networks for truth.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Cricut Media. I'm your host Stacey Abrams. February 8th is an important day in my family. There are six kids in my family, and February 8th is the day my youngest sister arrived. She was quite unexpected but well received. And she takes very seriously that her birthday happens. She reminds us how important she is. And thus it was fitting that on this year's celebration day, the entire nation threw her a party, you know, for entertainment. There was this global superstar, Benito Antonio Martinez Ocasio, more fondly known as Bad Bunny, who performed ostensibly for the super bowl, but we let Jeanine believe it was for her. So on Sunday, we sat in my parents home in Stone Mountain, Georgia, gathered around a television set, watching a halftime show. A show that was thrilling and just led to levels of unexpected pride. We know across town it created some outrage. But most importantly for me, watching that halftime show was about joy. Bad Bunny defied expectation by setting the stage not on a football field but in show sugar cane fields, fields that spoke to his Puerto Rican heritage, but that also nodded to those of us watching whose families had labored in cotton fields and rice paddies and farms that would feed others but never feed them. People who across this country and around the world have toiled for land they would not own. And yet, like those generations, Bad Bunny didn't just bemoan his fate. He invited us into their complex lives. In 12 minutes of celebration and singing, he told us stories about all of us. Stories about lives where birthdays and weddings, domino games and dancing became rituals of defiance and celebrations of opportunity and culture. Bad Bunny transcended spoken language. While singing, he defied us to think that the words that he spoke had to be words we understood because we understood Spanish. Instead, Bad Bunny described the shared lives of immigrants in universal images and in infectious rhythms that did not require translation. He was telling us that whether you Came to America by choice or by force. Here you are now home and it is up to you to make it so. Now the undefeated Internet said what my 77 year old mother also said as the show came to an end. Did I understand what he was singing? No. Did I understand what he was saying? Absolutely. Absolutely yes. In that show that was watched by more than 135 million people, he told us many things. First and foremost, he said that darkness feels inevitable. He did not gloss over the hardships that were presaged by that sugar cane field by those folks who were toiling at the beginning. But he said darkness might feel inevitable, but joy is a choice that we have to make. Despite their villainy, while the alternative halftime show was taking place and 6 million people decided to avoid happiness, he told the rest of us that we can choose joy. We can choose to acknowledge the darkness, but not let it consume us. He made a political statement. He said ICE is wrong, but he didn't have to use the language. He told us with his very presence that he understood that what is happening in this nation is wrong and that we have a right to speak out and do what we can. When he handed over that trophy to that young Latino boy, it was not just about being the first Spanish language album to win album of the year from the Grammys. It was about the speech that he made that night. A speech that said that even as I accept this award, I will not accept traditions and conditions that that deny those who I love the right to feel safe in the nation. I am a part of. What he did, with the countenance of the NFL, was engaged in an act of civil disobedience that will resonate for years. He told us that civil disobedience can be in the streets of Minneapolis and Portland, in Atlanta and Charlotte and Chicago and New Orleans and Memphis and la. But he also said that civil disobedience can take place on the world's largest stage and he can make make us a partner in it. He was telling us that we decide our destiny, that we decide our fortunes, that we decide how we will meet their attacks. But he also told us that our work can be insurgent and irreverent and that it takes all kinds. In a moment where we keep looking for ways to engage. When we talk about how do I fight back, we look for calls to action. What Bad Bunny says is make it your own. He said it doesn't have to be prescribed by what we know. It is prescribed by what we need and the work that we are doing on the 10 steps program, the work we are doing on this podcast, the work we are doing in America, across this country, in civil resistance, is about deciding our own destiny, picking our approach and saying that our work will indeed defy tradition. It may not be what people expect to see, but as long as we are doing something work, we are changing the future. But Bad Bunny wasn't just content to talk about America. He flew the flags of Latin America on the world's biggest stage. He symbolically, yes, handed his album of the year Grammy to a young Latino boy. Which is a powerful reminder that Latinos, Latinas and people from every background can be whatever they dream if they put their hearts and, and their minds and their talents into it, if they refuse to be defined by our lowest expectations and instead decide that they are going to reach for their highest aspirations. And he said that that is not an American tradition, that is a global sentiment, and that he could contain multitudes in that moment. He also reminded us that the broken places in our nation and in our democracy aren't always about what they want us to focus on. A part of America. Puerto Rico has a fraught history of belonging to the United States. Its economic and affordability crises should be front page news more often than it is the displacement of its people, its ongoing energy crisis espoused by those people climbing those electricity poles. When Bad Bunny ascended those poles, it wasn't just a rise. It was a reminder that in a nation of plenty, there is an energy crisis happening down the street and we don't talk about it enough. But what he also reminded us is that unfortunately, we can replace the affordability crisis, the economic crisis, the displacement and the energy crisis that's happening in Puerto Rico. We can replace it with Mississippi and Nevada, with Nebraska and Georgia. Puerto Rico isn't a reflection of America's tensions. It's emblematic of why our defeat of authoritarianism will absolutely require a reimagined and re engaged democracy, one that consistently delivers for people if it wants to be legitimate and survive. Puerto Rico has survived, but it could be so much more if we agreed to make it so. Democracy could be so much more if we agreed to make it so. We have extraordinary examples of what can be when democracy works. But we too often let these victories become footnotes, become punchlines. I am reminded over and over again that DEI is in our DNA and it's not marked by the terrible stories that get told, but the legacy of success. We have a Fair Labor Standards act because we fought. We have civil rights and voting rights because democracy can work. Women have the right to go to school, if not to choose how to handle their bodies, because democracy has worked before. We have to not just think about what has been broken, but we have to remind ourselves of what we've won because our opponents know and they refuse to let it expand. But Bad Bunny also widened the lens to an international narrative, one that is in direct repudiation of America's retreat, of America's failed Monroe Doctrine narrative that would have us invade foreign nations and revive colonialism. He fluently listed all of the nations of the Americas. All of the Americas. And then he wove us into a destiny that requires each of us to respect the diversity, equity and inclusion that democracy has revealed as possible. He said that DEI is not only in our DNA, it is our responsibility.

[D]

And.

[A]

And that it is not just about America. It is about the world. It's about the choices that we make and the model that we embody and the ways we decide that we will move in the world. And we know that because at the end of his celebration, at the end of his performance, at the end of 12 minutes of joy and challenge, at the end of 12 minutes of telling us who we are and in a language that we all understood, he spiked the football. And he reminded us that we are indeed in the midst of a political halftime, one where democracy and authoritarianism have taken the field, one where authoritarianism seems to be up in points and democracy seems to be the underdog. But he told us in that moment that we are engaged in a battle royale, a super for the soul of our nation. And coach Bad Bunny gave us our play in Spanish. He told us, together we are America and we are still here. So let's follow Bad Bunny. Let's go fight and win. Joining me after the break is the host of the Joy Reid show, the author of the substack Joy's House, political commentator and author Joy Ann Reed. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Wild Alaskan Company. When was the last time you truly trusted the seafood you brought home? Growing up on the Gulf of Mexico, my family always knew that the catch of the day was easily within reach. Now that we live in Atlanta, far away from the water, it's not that easy. That's where Wild Alaskan Company comes in. Wild Alaskan Company is the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. My parents love having a box delivered directly to their doorstep so they don't have to bother with the hassle of shopping and can get straight to cooking wild Alaskan company is 100% wild caught never farmed. This means there are no antibiotics, GMOs or additives, just clean real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities. Wild Alaskan fish is frozen off the boat to lock in taste, texture and nutrients like omega 3s and it is sustainably sourced wild caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and your membership delivers flexible shipments, expert tips and truly feel good seafood. Right now my parents are testing out new recipes on the Coho Salmon and the Pacific Halibut. Try it risk free with a 100% money back guarantee. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company will give you a full refund. No questions asked. No risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com assembly for $35 off of your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com assembly For $35 off of your first order. And thank you to wild alaskan company for sponsoring this episode. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by mosh. The older I get, the more I want to be intentional about taking care of my body and now I've found an on the go protein snack that is satisfying. Mach Bars MASH was founded by Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger with a simple mission to create a conversation about brain health through food, education and research. Maria's father suffered from Alzheimer's and since then she and Patrick have dedicated themselves to finding ways to help other families and dealing with this debilitating disease. MASH joined forces with the world's top scientist and functional nutritionist to go beyond your average protein bar. Each Mach Bar is made with ingredients that support brain health like Ashwagandha, lion's mane, collagen and omega 3s plus a game changing brain boosting ingredient you won't find in any other bar. Mosh is the first and only food brand. Boost it with Cognizant, a premium nootropic that supplies the brain with a patented form of cytokoline and Mosh donates a portion of all proceeds from your order to fund gender based brain health research through the Women's Alzheimer's movement. Why gender based 2/3 of all Alzheimer's patients are women. Mosh is working closely to close the gap between women and men's health research. Mosh bars are a go to solution for hunger and nutrition and and they come in nine flavors including three plant based flavors Chocolate Chip Cookie, Hazelnut Chocolate Chip and Peanut Chocolate chip. For a protein bar that can fuel your body and your brain, Mosh bars are a terrific Choice. Head to moshlife.com assembly to save 20% off plus free shipping on the Bestsellers Trial Pack or the new Plant based trial pack. That's 20% off plus free shipping on either the Bestsellers Trial Pack or or the Plant based trial pack at M-O S H L-I-F E.com assembly and thank you Mosh for sponsoring this episode. Joy Reid, it is a delight to have you join us here on Assembly Required.

[D]

It is always a pleasure to be anywhere where you are, my good dear sister. How are you?

[A]

I'm well. Look, I personally find this vindicating is the wrong word, but this is the first time I've gotten to be on this side of the conversation. So I've got a lot of pent up questions for you.

[D]

Let them roll, let them roll.

[A]

Okay, well, let's start with the media landscape. Last week, the Washington Post cut a third of its staff. They gutted their Metro desk, their sports desk, foreign coverage, which follows the fact that apparently America doesn't pay attention to the rest of the world anymore unless we're invading. And we know that over the weekend the editor, Will Lewis, resigned his post. You have been talking about this for quite some time. We know journalism has been under siege for several years and that's ostensibly one of the reasons Jeff Bezos originally bought the Post. But we know across the board media businesses have struggled in recent years and that layoffs have been hitting those who are responsible for reporting the news and telling us what's happening. What I'd love to talk to you about in this first section is really there's some clearly motivated political decisions that are happening and they're getting a lot of attention and they're undermining how we understand the role of journalism in this moment. So can you walk us through what you understand happened not just with the Post, but sort of this larger issue? And is this about a dying business model? Is it about Jeff Bezos ownership? Is it about something we're not talking about?

[D]

Well, I mean, thank you for that question. And I think this is so important to talk about because I think it can sometimes seem like those of us who are in media talking about what happens in media are just being self involved. Right. Because we work in this business. So we're like, if this business is dying, it affects us personally. But no, it actually matters for democracy. You of all People, because you are out here talking about these ten step squad autocracy, you understand it better than most. But if you look at, for instance, Russia, okay, the country that apparently our current president aspires to make us more like, in that country, a group of oligarchs took control of not just the means of production, not just the railroads, not just the utility companies, but also the media companies. They control the information that comes out to make sure that it aligns with what Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin want to hear. They make it very difficult for the few remaining independent media companies to do journalism because those companies threaten the existence of that autocracy by getting real information to people. So they shut down anyone speaking freely, right? So Alexei Navalny, one of the things that he did in addition to just plain activism, was he would use his online presence to speak truth over the wall that had been set up by the Kremlin for information, to lock information down. He and his young adherents were speaking truth over that wall. That is the reason that he was a danger to the Kremlin, and that is the reason he is no longer living, the reason he was jailed in our country. Our oligarchs are also buying up media, very aggressively buying up media. And. And keep in mind, these are the same oligarchs who also have massive defense contracts also within their businesses. Jeff Bezos, Amazon, all these other companies, they're doing moon rockets. They're trying to do business with the state at the same time that he is buying this venerable newspaper, the Washington Post, the newspaper that brought us Woodward and Bernstein, the newspaper that brought us the Watergate coverage, that venerable institutions is now owned by an oligarch who has business with the state, who is sucking up to the president every minute of every day. That's what he's doing. Why would he allow the Washington Post to stay the Washington Post? That doesn't fit his business model. His overall business model is not journalism. His overall business model is not whether or not the Washington Post is profitable. He bought that paper knowing that the business model of newspapers was declining. Why would a billionaire whose goal in life is to make money purchase an asset that he knew to be dying? So it doesn't make sense to say he bought it. Then he realized the business model was bad, then he'd be a fool. He wouldn't be rich. He bought that paper for a reason. He immediately started signaling what the reason was. When they pulled the endorsement of Kamala Harris, that was the first thing he did. Then the signal was when they took off the slogan, democracy dies in darkness, that went away. Third step, he started to say, oh, the purpose of this paper is to talk about the economy, economics. We're gonna talk about capitalism, we're gonna boost capitalism. Step four, Karen Attia gets thrown out the door. People didn't react to it because this is a black woman, but she was also at the nexus of race coverage and international coverage. She's Jamal Khashoggi's editor, so she is the person who brought him into the Post. She gets thrown out. She's the last black columnist gone. Now step five, all of the foreign coverage is essentially neutered. And then all the race coverage gone. No more DEI coverage, no more coverage about race. And also removing the kinds of people who would have reported very bluntly and honestly about Donald Trump comparing our first and only black president and his wife to apes. That coverage would have felt different and would have hit different coming from black journalists. Well, there are no more. There are no more black columnists. There's no one to speak truth to that power. And so I think the Occam's Razor answer as to what's happening in media, what's happened to CBS with the Ellisons who have defense contracts? Oracle is Oracle's first big contract. Their big first customer was the CIA. Oracle is a CIA connected Defense Department connected company whose president and founder is saying openly on stages that they want a total surveillance society in which the police are totally surveilled and everybody is under constant AI backed surveillance. His son now owns Paramount. They want Warner Brothers, they want cnn. You see where we're going? The media is being taken over and being brought under the ownership and control of a set of oligarchs whose interest is not democracy or truth or journalism. Their interest is aligning themselves with the autocrat such that we can have a total surveillance, totally controlled, totally supine and totally obedient society that is also ignorant to what the regime is doing.

[A]

I write fiction. I write political thrillers. And there are those who would hear what you've just said and say that that is the stuff of fiction. And I'm so glad that you anchored it in the reminder of Russia, because you and I remember when Russia was a democracy, when the Soviet Union fell, they had a president who was not Vladimir Putin and it was a democracy. And then the transformation began. And I think it's an important dialogue that we have to have that the fact that it sounds fantastical does not mean it's not true. And part of what it brings to mind for me is the transformation that we have also watched happening with hard news centered platforms. For a while we've watched this transition from hard news centered journalism to opinion driven journalism. And I think we can carbon date it back to around the same time that Russia was a democracy, back to the 1990s when CNN had really introduced the world to cable news and Fox and msnbc. At the time, General Electric owned NBC and Microsoft wanted to get into the news business when they decided to compete with cnn. But rather than having that stable of reporters and the infrastructure of cnn, Fox and MSNBC opted for more pundit style segments. And this was aided by the Reagan era decision to eliminate the Fairness Doctrine. And I want to give us that history because I think to understand what you've just laid out, we've got to know this didn't start January 20, 2025. This has had a long history. And so can you talk about the realignment that you're witnessing and why hard news not just matters in this moment, but who's fighting for it in this moment?

[D]

Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned the artist formerly known as msnbc. The Ms. In Miz now now stands for my source, but it used to stand for Microsoft, whose oligarch owner Bill Gates features very prominently in the Epstein files, as do all of these oligarchs, all of these techno feudalists, you could also call them techno fascists, weirdly enough. They were all cuddling up to Jeffrey Epstein post his 2008 conviction, pre his convict, his indictment, he never made it to trial. And Ghislaine Maxwell's indictment. Right. Very interesting that all these tech bros, the Steve Bannons of the world, the Elon Musk's of the world, the Peter Thiels of the world and Bill Gates were all cuddling up to this guy and they all had this interest in a total surveillance state and in creating a uniform information economy that they control. This is a conversation all of these people were having. And I think you should put a pin in that and keep that in mind as we continue to talk about these cable entities.

[A]

More for my conversation with Joy Reed after the break. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Helix. Look, I don't need a reason to curl up with a good book, but. But with a cold snap sweeping across the south, there's no better excuse for reading in bed. And now that I have a Helix mattress, the hard part is getting up. Buying a Helix mattress couldn't be easier. The Helix Sleep quiz matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs so that you can find the perfect fit. Not only that, Helix has free shipping in the US and seamless delivery right to your doorstep. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired and you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. Helix has a 120 night sleep trial and a limited lifetime warranty. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Now that I've switched to Helix, I'm getting a better night's sleep and having better mornings. Go to helixsleep.com assembly for 27% off site wide exclusive for listeners of assembly required that's helixsleep.com assembly for 20% off sitewide exclusive for listeners of Assembly Required make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com assembly assembly required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Found. Ask any small business owner and they will tell you that figuring out the best way to manage your finances can get confusing fast. As a person who started a small business myself, I know what it can be like to juggle multiple disconnected apps to manage your business finances and have to go into overdrive. And just to stay on top of your books. Found eliminates the clutter by giving you one platform that handles it all. Banking, bookkeeping, invoices and taxes. No more paying for multiple subscriptions and dealing with clunky, outdated apps. Found identified the tasks that create the most hassle for small businesses. Things like categorizing expenses, preparing for taxes, managing invoicing, budgeting. And they built an app that does it all directly from your business checking account. Found makes it easy to regain control of your business finances so you can get back to doing what you love. They understand the unique challenges facing small business owners and entrepreneurs. The app automatically tracks expenses, which means you no longer have to carve out time every week to go through purchases, hunt for missing receipts and scramble to ensure everything is accounted for. And you can easily create and send invoices directly from the app too. Having an app like this when I first started out with our beverage company, Nourish would have been game changing. And as someone who has helped many other small businesses find ways to grow, I know how useful tools like this are. Take back control of your business Today open a Found account for [e-mail] that's f o u n d dot com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Lead Bank Member FDIC Join the hundreds of thousands who've already streamlined their finances with found.

[D]

When Ted Turner created the Cable News Network, it was actually a revelation for those of us who were news junkies, the idea that we could get news 247 music to my and my mama's ears because we were like news junkies. We were like, we were watching Nightline every night. I was like, really? I was like a sixth grade nerd. You know, I just loved watching the news and my mom was a news junkie as well. So CNN was like a cool idea when it first started, the idea that you could get news and also international news. Because one of the things that's always this is not a new thing. Americans have really never been that interested in international news, right? Which put us at a deficit. When you go to Europe and they get so much global news, we didn't. So we didn't really understand in the United States why Iran, why students in Iran would take our hostages. In the 1970s. A lot of Americans just didn't understand why that happened because we really didn't do international news. But CNN gave us that opportunity. They had bureaus all over the world. They were an international news organization. But then along comes a guy named Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch who said, we can take that model and we can use it to the benefit of the Republican Party. And so Fox News was created in the late 1990s and 1996, it was around 1996, during the Clinton era, to take that same CNN model and direct it and throw it as a weapon against Democrats. But know that Roger Ailes also created msnbc. Roger Ailes is also the guy behind that. And when MSNBC first started as American News Network, it had both right wing and left wing shows and they were all about the pugilism of right versus left creating this amygdala response kind of quote unquote journalism that was really all about the two sides shouting at each other. And CNN also brought that model into its orbit when they created Crossfire because they needed to compete with these two new networks that were doing basically crossfire 24 hours a day. That absolutely warped and changed the process purpose of news. It changed the purpose because hard news and hard journalism became less important than getting ratings and keeping people watching and keeping people excited. Notice that CNN would have breaking news on everything, stuff that wasn't even really breaking news. It would just always say breaking news. And it kept you fired up emotionally so you would just keep watching. That model has not been good for journalism. But the One piece, I will say that CNN did still contribute to the world was that global perspective. You could actually get news from around the world. If you go to Europe, CNN International is actually quite a great network. But now you're seeing all that broken because now all that seems to matter is getting that amygdala going. And you get less and less news with your excitement and sort of, your sort of outrage. I will say that at msnbc, the Artist formerly known as msnbc, the one thing I will give them credit for is that because we were touching tied to NBC News, all the outrage was tied to journalism. We weren't allowed to just get up there and lie. We had a standards and practices department. So if we just had a feeling that Trump was a bad guy, we couldn't just get up there and say that we needed to actually have evidence, we needed to have something to say that was journalistically based, then we could say what we were gonna say. But it had to be based on journalism. Fox doesn't have that. They don't have a standards in practice department. They can just get up there and say Bill Clinton is the devil. And they don't even have to back that up. They can say all black people are criminals. The only criminals are black. All trans people are trying to attack your children in schools. They shouldn't be teachers. They can just say whatever they want. They can say whatever they want about immigrants. And for a lot of Americans, that and Rush Limbaugh, when he was alive, is the news they didn't see anything they thought fair and balanced meant. It says what I want to hear. That channel tells me what I believe in my gut. Therefore that's fair and balanced. And anything that doesn't do that is biased. And so we've created this false belief about bias that has not just warped right wing news, it's warped regular news. Because people at the normal networks, the CBS, the ABCs and the NBCs, are terrified to be seen as biased against conservatives. So they're holding back, they're pulling back on telling the truth because they think the truth sounds biased. So I think it's all been a bad. It's been bad for everyone. And then the last thing I'll add, then you throw in social media, you throw in the Artist formerly known as Twitter, you throw in TikTok and everything else. Now people can choose your own adventure. Now people are like, I only want news that tells me what I wanna hear. I only want information that tells me what I wanna hear. And the thing I really worry about, Stacy What I really, really worry about is that now that some of those entities are owned by the oligarchs, they're now gonna start to limit what you know to also what the state wants you to know. They're gonna start to limit what a few of us out here are trying to do, which is to say, wait, without a corporate minder, we can tell you the truth, we can tell you what you're not being told, but we also need to know that the platform we're on doesn't shut us up as well.

[A]

Well, I want to unpack a few of the things you've lifted up, because I think that's the crux of my worry. Step six of the 10 steps to authoritarianisms and autocracy. Step six is you attack the truth. And that by attacking the truth, you reshape reality. Because it's not just about saying truth doesn't exist and firing everyone. It's about firm filling the void with propaganda and reshaping what people understand to be what actually is. You know, don't believe the evidence of your lying eyes. So, Joy, you began your career in journalism, but then you built a national brand as a political commentator. You are known as someone who would leverage your platform to provide a mix of hard news, but also political insights and social commentary. You know, your MSNBC show, the readout, however, was canceled last year, but your new endeavor, as you just pointed out, is now fully independent. It is not platform dependent for its content, but it is platform dependent for its dissemination. You've said that the cancellation was liberating, but you also express worry about what happens next. And as more and more journalism comes from this sort of hybrid model that you've pioneered, so what excites you and what should the audience be looking for if it wants to understand what is the truth?

[D]

Yeah, what worries, you know, and I'll start with what worries me before I get to what excites me, because I pretty much live in worry before I live in excitement in these. In these moments. What worries me about the platforms that we all sort of have depended on for years, that even if they felt like they lean liberal and even if they still do, I mean, frankly, they also are only a part of the business of these bigger companies who are concerned about whether Brendan Carr will come for them. And even though the FCC does not regulate cable news, these companies are merged to other businesses that the federal government can regulate. So there's always this threat. I mean, we're hearing these rumors that Trump has ordered the FCC to investigate the view and to try to apply a version of the Fairness Doctrine against them, essentially saying, we, we're gonna bully you into platforming far right conservative politicians. If you put on one Democrat, you need to put on one of those for balance that suddenly it's like, you must platform liars. You must platform crypto fascists. And if you don't, we're coming for you. And if you say that to Disney, that has all these other businesses, they don't have to order the people the view to be silent. They can just really scrutinize everything they say at that table to the point where they get really uncomfortable. If Joy Behar or Sonny Holston says something or Anna Navarro says something that sounds disparaging about the president, they can just. And that is what I felt when I worked in mainstream media. It's not that they ever told us what to say. It's that you knew that you were gonna get a call if you said something, something that irritated the president or you were told if he tweets at you, you can't respond. You need to not respond. Because if you respond, that could get your bosses in trouble. It could get the company in trouble. You're jeopardizing the company. And so people feel that burden, that I don't want to be the reason. I don't want to be the reason that our company gets sued. I don't want to be the reason my team gets laid off. So you start to censor yourself and you start to get just more generic party platforming, you know, where it's very much the Democratic Party says, this here is a Democrat. And they say that and a lot less analysis from the person in the chair. And in many cases, the people in the chair are people like me who come from both journalism and politics. So we have something to give, to offer because we worked in politics like you did. You know what I mean? It's like we. We kind of know how the political and the campaign piece works. So we're adding that analysis to the situation. Well, maybe you add it a little bit more quietly. And that's what they're hoping for, and that's what they fear, which I wouldn't do on the Joy Reid Show. I'm gonna say exactly what I know. If I don't know, I'm gonna admit I don't know. I'm gonna tell you what I am hearing behind the scenes. I'm gonna share what I'm learning, and I'm going to give you journalism. But I can give my opinion free of that fear, at least until these people platforms start to shut us down.

[A]

When we come back, more from my conversation with Joy Reid. Assembly Required is brought to you by the Freedom From Religion Foundation. A strong democracy doesn't happen by accident. It's built deliberately through laws that protect everyone's freedoms, not just those with power. One of those protections is the separation of church and state. The First Amendment ensures that government serves all people equally, regardless of faith, background or belief, and that no one is forced to live under someone else's theology. Today, that principle is under threat from movements that want to blur the line between religion and government, narrowing who truly belongs in our democracy. The Freedom From Religion foundation works to defend that boundary and in schools, courts and public institutions. So freedom of conscience remains a right, not a privilege. This is about fairness, it's about inclusion, and it's about building a democracy that works for everyone. Visit FFRF US newyear or text my first name, Stacy S T A c e y to 511-511 and support the work of protecting our shared freedoms. To learn more, go to FFRF US NewYear or text my first name S T A C EE Y to 511-511 and help protect a country that belongs to all of us. Message and data rates may apply.

[B]

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[D]

This is.

[C]

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[A]

So where do folks like me fit in? You know, I have a podcast. I am a former slash potential future politician. I don't know yet, but in the interregnum I'm a weekly host who highlights the news but tries to contextualize it with deeper analysis with call to action by platforming people who actually know more than I do to talk about issues. And there are more and more folks like me who are adding shows regularly. But are we doing something that's good and necessary? What role should we play and what's missing?

[D]

I think it's more than necessary. It's critical. Because one of the things I think that has limited the media's capability of responding to those 10 steps toward autocracy and, and authoritarianism that you are constantly getting us to live with and face is that a lot of people in journalism, not to disparage anybody who works in my profession, a lot of them don't really know that much about campaigns. They know only what they're told by campaigners. They interview people like you and then they can say what you said, but they don't really necessarily know the inner workings of campaigns. And then there are a few of us who actually have worked in campaigns. So it brings a certain expertise to the table. So me as a political analyst, I can analyze campaigns from the point of view of having worked in them, you know what I mean? And I think that's valuable for you. Having actually served in elected office, you have even more insight. You've not only worked in campaigns, meaning it was your campaigns, then you not only can talk about politics, you were a politician. You ran for the highest office in the state of Georgia two times. You know what that is? You understand how it is to serve in the highest levels of the party apparatus in a very important swing state. So I think somebody like you is a critical voice because you can give us the inside scoop on how it works, on how the machinery works. We need both straight up journalists who just do what they do at like, you know, wired, right? But the wired people are also pretty connected and they know that world. But you. But they can just dig into the journalism. You need people who can do analysis. Zatteo, I think, is a brilliant example where These are people who are analysts, but they're also subject matter experts. And then we need people like you, these podcasts. I love your podcast. I love what you do because you can give an insight into the political process that I don't have. I've never been an elected official, so I think what we need is that. And then we also need to network ourselves. I think it's critical that none of us are operating in a vacuum. We have to network with each other. We have to have cross currents and cross pollinization across the political podcast from insiders like you, the purely journalistic podcast, the Kara Swishers that are journalists. She's just giving you that journalism, but insight into the tech world. She's bringing that. I think Midas is bringing their own thing. I think the crooked folks are bringing their own thing. Everybody's bringing something to the table. But in isolation, we are not as powerful as. As we are when we are working in network and in community. And I think that's the next step. We have to figure out how are we all working together. Don and Jim Acosta and I, we do a thing where when it's no Kings Day, we all go on our platforms together. And we're giving you a broad range of what Jim does. He's a pure journalist. What Don does, he's a journalist analyst. And what I do, who's a journalist analyst, who worked in politics, the three of us together are more powerful than each of us is alone. So I think that's. That. That's the answer.

[A]

And I think that's a perfect example of one of the steps to freedom and power. So as much as we talk about the 10 steps to authoritarianism and autocracy, part of the 10 Steps campaign is to talk about what are the 10 steps to not just surviving this moment, but to winning. How do we get on the other side? And what you've just described is how journalists, how media can organize and mobilize and be disruptive. And so I love how you've thought about that. One of the other things, Joy, that you've always been a pioneer on, is that you have long pushed back against how mainstream media covers or outright minimizes atrocities. You know, early in your career, you wrote an editorial for the Miami Herald about the Iraq war that nearly cost you your job because you challenged a dominant media narrative at a time when that was just is not done. And you happen to be darker than the people who usually speak up. And once again, we're in this moment where courage feels even more perilous especially for communities of color, for vulnerable communities, for young people. And recently I've been traveling the country, and I've been asked by young people in several different venues how to decide when to speak up, how to decide the. The risk management of knowing there's something that needs to be said, but being terrified that you could be not only kicked out of college or lose your job, you could be sent to a black site. If you speak up. So as someone who got her start speaking truth to power, what's your advice?

[D]

I mean, and put a pin in what you just said. You could be sent to a black site. We have concentration camps in America in the year of our Lord 20. That's where we are. I've been saying to people lately, the first step toward fighting autocracy is acceptance. We need to accept what we are. We are not the United States of America that y' all grew up in the Reagan era waving your flag and thinking that we are the shining city on the hill. We are not that now. Right now, we're Hungary. We're close to Russia. We're much more like Russia or Argentina than we are like the United States. You thought you were in the 1980s. We need to face that. Right. Poland went through it. We are going through it. A lot of countries go through these fascist moments, and we're there. Okay, so that's the first step. So, yeah, the black sites are real. The risk is real. But it's also not like the first time we've been here.

[A]

Right.

[D]

I mean, I just wrote this a couple. It's hard to believe. It's been like three years. But I wrote this Medgar Evers book in 2023, Time Flies. And what he was in was also fascism. I mean, 19, you know, pre1960s, America was basically fascist. If you were black, you were living in a fascist autocracy. Then he came home from fighting Medgar, came home from fighting Nazis overseas to find Nazis right where he lived. And then it was being overseas that made him realize, oh, this is also Nazism. So that's where we're at. So one of the things he would always say is you have to do what's in your comfort zone to do, but you can't do nothing.

[A]

Nothing.

[D]

So figure out what's your comfort level. There were a lot of adults who didn't feel free to march or to boycott because they were afraid of losing their jobs. But their kids felt more strength because they didn't have mortgages that could be taken away. They didn't have mortgages that could be canceled. They couldn't be fired from a job because they weren't working. They were kids, they were in school. And so they had more courage because they had more freedom. I think for young people today, you have to look at your life, assess how much risk you feel you can handle, and then you need to take a risk. Is your risk saying something on your social media? If that's where your risk level is, do that. If your risk level is not that, but your risk is, I will never walk into another target as long as they continue to not do DEI and they deny diversity, equity and inclusion and their help in ice, do that. If it's, I will not walk into a Home Depot. I will not give them a dime of my money. But until they stop helping ice. And I'm gonna make a whole list of companies that I will not shop at because they are assisting ICE and because they will not do dei do that. So it's like you have to look at your own risk assessment. What can you do? The only thing I think is unacceptable in this moment is doing nothing.

[A]

Joy Reid, no one will ever accuse you of doing nothing. Thank you so much for joining us today on Assembly Required. Thank you for your leadership, thank you for your show, and if you can tell people where to find you, I'd love to hear it.

[D]

Well, first of all, I wanna thank you, Stacey. You are one of my heroes in life and you know that. And I fangirl you every day. Every time you say something, I'm like, why didn't I say that? That is exactly the way it needed to be put. You are so brilliant. Thank you for doing this podcast. It is essential listening and viewing in this moment. So you're giving me strength in terms of the things that you're doing. So thank you for Assembly Required. We appreciate you. And if you all want to avail yourself of what I'm doing, you can go to thejoyreadshow.com which is where you can find the YouTube space. We're also on [e-mail], we call that Joy's House. You can subscribe to both or either it is free to do so. You only have to pay if you wanna comment. The only thing I do is I do pay to troll if you want to. I make people pay a little fee if you wanna comment to me, but other than that, it is absolutely free. We just want you to be there to hopefully get informed. I love to do a history context. I'm a super nerd, so you're going to get that super nerdy aspect to it, but you will also get the tea on what's going on in the world. So thank you all and thank you for giving me the platform. Stacey. I appreciate it and love you. Thank you.

[A]

Love you too. Joy Ann Reid, thank you for being here.

[D]

Cheers.

[A]

Take care.

[D]

Bye.

[A]

Assembly Required is here to help us understand what's happening around us and then take action where we are. Because every decision to resist adds up and we have three ways to do it. First, be curious if you enjoyed my conversation with Joy Reid, go check out her podcast the Joy Reid show and her substack Joy's House Number two Solve Problems Quality, well funded journalism is essential to holding power to account and local journalism is particularly essential. So please subscribe to your local paper today. And in addition, as Joy pointed out, the nation's black press has been under assault. It has experienced an 80% decline in revenue since the backlash against DEI ramped up a year ago, and the percentage that black journalists occupy in the nation's newsroom is roughly the same same as it was 50 years ago. That's why Onyx Impact, helmed by Asosa Osa, who has been a leader in debunking disinformation and was a guest on our show, has taken up the issue of black journalism. They've launched the Invest in Black Media campaign, a year long effort to strengthen black media infrastructure. So consider contributing to the Invest in Black Media campaign which is highlighting the national association of Black Journalists this month, Black History Month. So go to nabjonline.org, click the Donate button and select Jubilee Endowment Black History Month match. And that's because Onyx Impact is matching up to $100,000 for their fund. And then number three, let's do some good. As RFK Jr continues to dismantle our healthcare system and so doubt and fear about the safety of vaccines, it is incumbent upon all of us to fight back and protect each other. Be watchful of friends and loved ones who are slipping into vaccine hesitancy and push back on misinformation and disinformation that you see on your social platforms. Visit vaccineinformation.org to get accurate, shareable information about vaccines and the diseases they prevent. Assembly Required continues to grow its audience, but we need your help. We reach more people when you tell others about us, when you add us to your feed, and when you share your favorite episode. Make sure you actually subscribe on all of your favorite platforms, not just one. Boost our visibility by rating the show and leaving a comment. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And please also check out my substack Assembly Notes, where we dive deep and where I share more of my thoughts on how we understand and then fight back against this authoritarian regime. Thank you to the thousands of you who signed up for the 10 Steps campaign at 10stepscampaign.org we offer information in English and Spanish to help you recognize what's happening, activate around solutions and build a better America. Okay, well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Do good out there and I'll meet you here next week. Assembly Required is a crooked media production. Our lead show producer is Lacy Roberts and our associate producer is Farah Safari. Kiril Palaviv is our video producer. This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis. Our theme song is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Thank you to Matt De Groat, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hethcote and Priyanka Mantha for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams.