← Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams
Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams
Cory Booker On Winning the Messaging War Against Trump with Radical Empathy
00:54:35
President Donald Trump’s first 100 days are well underway, implementing ruthless and legally questionable executive orders, eviscerating American political norms, and filling government positions with loyalists. This week, Stacey Abrams speaks to Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, who speaks unabashedly about why Democrats must strive to reach more Americans, how he approaches working across the aisle on issues that matter, and what we can do to fight back and fight for all Americans. Together, Stacey and Sen. Booker give concrete suggestions on how to support elected officials and organizations doing the work that matters, how to speak up about Trump’s Cabinet nominations, and how even small steps like amplifying democrats through social media can help expose more people to critical information. They also answer a listener’s question about how to communicate effectively with your elected representative!
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- [00:00]
Stacey Abrams
Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Acorns. I didn't grow up with much money and I never thought about investing as a possibility. When my business partner and I launched our first consulting firm, Insomnia Consulting, she told me that her ambition was for us to be able to make money while we slept. Whether that came from growing our client list or finally taking investing seriously, I've continued to keep her vision as a part of my reality. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. Once I got the hang of it, I realized that I could dream bigger and take more chances and share what I've learned with my family so they could do the same. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who've already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.comassembly or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non Client Endorsement Compensation provides incentives to positively endorse Acorns. Tier 1 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important disclosures@acorns.com assembly welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I am your host Stacey Abrams, here at Assembly Required. We have been covering the shock and awe agenda of the Trump administration's first 100 days, and we know it's incredibly important that in this moment we cut through what is vile rhetoric or intentional distraction and focus on what actions are doing real, tangible damage to people's lives. Which is why I want to take a moment and talk about language. What we say matters. I write books for a living. I know that words matter. So what you won't hear me saying, what you won't hear me talking about on this podcast are MAGA Republicans or extremist Republicans. Because MAGA and extremists, those are adjectives we use to distance words from one another. But what is largely unfolding in our nation is happening with the permission and participation of Republicans at every level of government across the entire spectrum. That means their behavior is not extremism. Because if rank and file Republicans condone it with their silence, or their interaction and engagement, or worse, with their championing of it, then it is now, mainstream Republican orthodoxy. We cannot keep pretending that Donald Trump is an outlier when everyone else seems to be out there with him. We have to accept that, whether they are active participants or passive condoners, if Republicans won't use their power to stop him, they own what he does. I say that because, like the recent despots of Hungary, India, or Brazil, the president and his party will wrap themselves in slogans and give lip service to values, but their actions will always shout the truth. For example, there are cancer treatments in this country that were halted because President Trump won't allow the NIH to speak to hospitals. There are disabled workers placed in jeopardy by executive orders that renege on our nation's promises of inclusion and. And accessibility. The Justice Department's blanket refusal to pursue civil rights claims, that's just wrong. And then there are the communities that are losing people they love to indiscriminate roundups and raids. We are seeing this in the form of Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids, or ICE raids that are taking place across a number of cities. It started with the inauguration, and they are continuing unabated. Well, we're still working to piece together what exactly happened here in Newark, New Jersey, yesterday. We spoke to a number of members.
- [04:43]
Cory Booker
Of this community, and they tell us.
- [04:44]
Stacey Abrams
They are too afraid to speak out. According to media reports, there was an ICE raid at the Seafood Depot that you see behind me. We also know that Trump's sycophantic cabinet is also taking shape, a cabinet that would be filled with the individuals who have the power to wield entire government agencies. And those folks are making their way through Senate confirmations right now. These newly minted political leaders will be tasked with implementing the more than 200 executive orders issued by Trump, as well as managing billions of dollars of taxpayer money and millions of staff. So today we'll talk about what we expect from our Democratic leaders and how they plan to fight back and more importantly, fight for all of us. As you know, here at Assembly Required, we will also continue to face each executive order, legislative policy, and each news cycle, however terrifying or. Or absurd, with our signature toolkit asking, what can we do to learn more about what's happening? What can we do to solve problems, however small? And how can we find the kind of hope that can sustain our work in difficult times? This week, to accomplish the tasks of knowing where we are, figuring out how to survive what's to come, and planning for what we do to fix what they're going to try to destroy, I've invited a dear friend with a lot of experience in doing all of these things. Someone who understands that fighting can be more about how we make friends than defeat enemies. Someone who recognizes the humanity and what may seem like numbers or statistics. And someone who has put radical empathy at the center of his life in public service, even at the time when extreme fear and division can make it seem that holding onto these values is impossible. New Jersey Senator Cory Booker. Welcome to Assembly Required.
- [06:52]
Cory Booker
I hope that you are not just for your podcast, calling me Senator Cory Booker, but that we could go back to how we normally talk to each other, Corey and Stacey.
- [07:00]
Stacey Abrams
I can do that, but, you know, I have to follow protocol. I'm from the South.
- [07:05]
Cory Booker
That is very true. But I hope your listeners know that you and I have known each other for more than a second. And as wonderful as you are in sourcing people as a public figure, you're even better as a friend. And I'm grateful.
- [07:21]
Stacey Abrams
Well, I open this up by talking about just how kind you are and the phrase you used, radical empathy. We're gonna get into this later. It not just describes how you approach the world. It is the experience that every person who's gotten more than 15 seconds in your presence, it's what they feel. But I'm going to start in a place that's a little different than just how you're going to fix everything, and that is by talking about what we have to fix. So we are recording on day eight of Donald Trump's second administration. So I want to start with a really easy question. Will we survive four years of this chaos and catastrophe regime? Tell us.
- [08:04]
Cory Booker
Well, you and I are probably both steeped in strength. We draw from our ancestors. And no matter what you want to say about this moment in time, we as a nation, people in struggle, have faced moments like this far worse and have found a way to survive. And so I've been leaning hard this morning. One of the videos I posted on my platforms, like Instagram, was just wisdom from Fannie Lou Hamer. Even if they knock me over, I'm gonna fall 5 foot, 4 inches forward. But look, we saw an election defeat, but we're not defeated. We got knocked down, but not knocked out. And, you know, here in the Senate, we used to be on the pedestal of power. We got knocked off, but now we've all got to determine that it's on, and we've got to get to work. And so they didn't give up after slavery was lasting for hundreds of years. They didn't give up that after slavery and reconstruction fell and terrorists swarmed over the South. Folks didn't give up then. They didn't give up when Brown vs Board of Education came. And it came with a massive backlash where the Klan rose to greater membership than they had decades earlier and swept again, terror across the South. There's so many points at which horrifically mean hearted people were elected or put into positions of power and folks just kept on fighting. And you and I are here today as living testimonies to the people that did not give up. All of us who are listening to this, we are. No matter what your background, we are all testimonies to our ancestors. Not only hopes and not only work, not only sweat, but also their unyielding, indefatigable dreams for a better America.
- [09:54]
Stacey Abrams
I love how you anchor this in what we've overcome, but more importantly in who are some of the lodestars. And I think about this in the context of the roles and responsibilities not only of the victors, but the activists, the advocates, the resisters, the persisters. I was once responsible for leading the loyal opposition in the Georgia House of Representatives as minority leader and the title they give you, I like to joke that they call you leader to make you feel good. They put minority in front of it, so you know how hard it's supposed to be.
- [10:30]
Cory Booker
Yes.
- [10:31]
Stacey Abrams
And you are now in the minority in the U.S. senate in a moment where the question of what the role of the loyal opposition should be is much more complicated. This is not the traditional my party wants X, your party wants Y. This is a conversation of my party wants democracy, your party wants autocracy. So you have a new role yourself. You are the newly elected chair of the Strategic Communications Committee. What does that mean in this moment and how are you thinking about where you. I mean, you're going to fall Forward at least 6 foot 5 inches. But what does it mean as you think about what we need to do from the space that you occupy now?
- [11:15]
Cory Booker
Well, you know, first of all, you and I both, I know, live this. Our loyalty is to this nation, not to a party. I'm a Democrat because my grandfather was a Democrat and told me very pointedly that the Democratic Party stands for affordable healthcare, security and retirement. He would name all these issues that were really important to him and he said, but yet you remember your loyalty to what's best for this country. And I think that we have to stop in many ways making it all about left versus right or Republican versus Democrat and start trying to refocus people's attention on the things that matter. I think the Democratic Party will thrive most if people know that we're fighting for them. We're fighting for their issues. We're fighting for the things that really vex, frankly, so many Americans on both sides of the aisle once people understand that and trust that. And so I'm keeping a spotlight in everything that I can do and trying to help my party do that. Keep a spotlight on, not on Donald Trump, who wants to suck the oxygen out of the room and make it all about him, but make it about the issues that matter and the reality of how it impacts people's lives. And I tell people, look, I'll work with anybody. And I have worked with people who I disagree with dramatically, as did you when you were a leader in the legislature. Because none of us are sent to our positions or representative elected positions to be great Democrats. We're sent to fight for people. So my role right now is doing everything I can to see good things happen and stop bad things happening to people and to look for opportunities. The last time Donald Trump was elected, we got some very big bills passed, including one called the First Step act that has led to the liberation of thousands and thousands of people from unjust incarceration as a result of unjust sentencing and more. But I want to. Part of your question made me immediately think about, well, there is going to be a lot of bad things happening. There is a lot of bad things that happened in this last eight days that's inexcusable. I'm watching Donald Trump take an immigration issue, which has some really real issues in it, but use it in a way that demonizes scapegoats and undermines the security of communities, the strength of communities, and the economic prosperity of communities. And we have to be thoughtful enough to be able to always stand up and call out what's wrong, to try to stop what's wrong, especially in times when that's not popular. And I'm gonna do everything I can to be one of those voices that speaks truth whenever is possible. And one of the things I love about you, and this is the last point I'll make, is that you remind people that the opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference, it's silence. And that everybody's voice at this time especially, is really important to speak truth about what's going on, especially when it threatens. Folks. I had a raid done, an ICE raid done in my home city, not far from where I live, in a restaurant. I'm gonna get better briefed on it soon by ice. But when they asked ICE officers, are you coming into this restaurant because of violent criminals, or all the people that Trump talked about that threatened the safety, they said, no, we just got a tip that there were undocumented people working in the kitchen. And so I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute, you're prioritizing police resources, law enforcement resources, detention resources, not to the people that Donald Trump said he was gonna focus on, but to people that were in the kitchen working jobs that are not a threat to the safety and security of my communities. And so there's a lot of nuance that people have to be willing to speak to, a lot of truth that people have to tell, and a lot of light that we need to shine when things go severely off the rails. And all of us have an obligation to know what's happening, especially to vulnerable people, and talk about it.
- [15:27]
Stacey Abrams
So I want to unpack a couple of the things you said. One, and I appreciate the framing that, yes, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. And one of the concerns that I've heard bubbling up is that in years past, it was not just noble, it was necessary to come together and to work with the opposite party because the goal was to serve people. That. That is absolutely a given, and it's a belief that I hold. But one thing I said at the top of this episode is that I'm very unhappy about this attribution of extremism, or maga, as a qualifier for a Republican in a moment where the party is suborning the behavior of their leader. And I frame it in that way, because one of the questions people have is, what does it mean to be a Democrat? Not what does it mean to be an American, because there is a common belief in that, but what does it mean to be a Democrat in this America? And as someone who's helping us think about that, can you talk a little bit? Not about how you're going to work with, but what we should expect of those who carry the same moniker of ideations that we believe. I mean, we're all Americans first, but what's that? Secondary responsibility?
- [16:58]
Cory Booker
Yeah. First of all, I wanna just pick up the first part you said about this idea of silence and holding people accountable. If Pete Hegseth, who is now our Secretary of Defense, if it was a secret ballot on the confirmation of the Senate, he would have lost that election. There are some people that knew he was not right and perhaps dangerous in that position, but supported him anyway. And that's the kind of complicit nature I'm seeing in the Republican Party where people are even afraid to tell the truth about the 2020 elections being rightfully decided, that Joe Biden was the rightful elected leader. And that's problematic and we should call that out. But to go into the core of your question about, about what does our party stand for, to me that's really important. And you've been a force in trying to get a lot more substance and richness and truth into who we are as Democrats. And I think that that's from my new position. I'm gonna do everything I can to make our party stand for something that makes people feel encouraged and not frustrated with the Democratic Party that many people view as feckless or ineffective or lacking a moral core and a moral compass. And so for me is telling those stories as we're going about doing the work down here is really, really important. And that means standing up and calling things out. And so Donald Trump, for example, had a raft of executive orders and a lot of them went unnoticed. Like when he's cutting resources towards the center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, for example, which was, these were innovative programs that were going towards trying to lower the cost of health care for Americans. And this is people like Stephen Miller's whole goal is to flood the zone so much that people can't see everything that Donald Trump is doing to raise your costs, to make prescription drugs more expensive, to make healthcare more expensive. And if our party can't call that out in an effective way and can't get that information out to voters and to people in the community, then we're failing at what we do. And so I just am coming from giving a presentation to the chiefs of staff of all my colleagues, where I was just saying to them, the way we are communicating is ineffective. When I'm going around the country and I'm meeting people that don't realize what we're fighting for, when I see polls that got rid of the candidates names, but just polled the policy issues alone and the Democratic issues would win overwhelmingly yet people would vote for the Republican or not trust that the Democrats were really fighting for those things. We have a serious, serious problem. And unless we start finding more effective ways to communicate, unless we start finding ways to let people know that they can trust us, that in the arena we're fighting for them, we're gonna continue to be a minority party. And in a world where power matters, we will be ineffective in getting things done. And so I am gonna tell you right now, it's gonna be very hard for us to stop Donald Trump from Renewing his Trump tax cuts, where the benefits of that overwhelmingly went. The majority of those benefits went to the top 1% of Americans. Where corporations got tax cuts well beyond what they were even asking for or thought were possible. Where we saw some people in some tax brackets actually have their taxes go up. It is such a sinister thing because it's going to blow trillions of dollars more into our deficits, which then later Republicans are gonna say, the only way we can fix these deficits is by cutting your health care or your retirement security. And so the reason why they have the advantage in getting that done is because we lost elections and in areas where we should have won them had we got a greater turnout amongst base Democrats who did not know enough or were not inspired enough or did not believe in us enough to to come out and vote. And so you're one of those leaders that you and I have had private conversations about this, which you're just saying, like, wait a minute, a lot of people saying we need to reach out to those Republicans. I believe we should do that. I think there's a lot of people that vote Republican that I want to persuade that we are better. But you're often saying a lot of Democrats have just checked out because they don't believe anymore. They don't believe that we're fighting for them. They got cynical, they've surrendered to cynicism. And so I'm now in a position where I'm gonna do everything I can to help our party really think about communicating to folks that we are fighting for you. We have your back and we're there and we're gonna tell you stories. We're gonna bring to light the things we're doing. And here's something that a lot of folks now realize. After that election, most people are not getting their news from newspapers or 24 hour news networks. They're just not. They're getting them on these devices. They're getting them from influencers and social media and more. And that's something that we have to understand. We're communicating still in ways that aren't getting through or cutting through. And we're not telling it stories. We're elevating voices that I think people are yearning to hear more of.
- [22:39]
Stacey Abrams
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- [23:54]
Cory Booker
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- [24:11]
Stacey Abrams
So let's talk about how we get those voices and how we tell those stories. Because I read an article you were quoted in recently about these conversations we're having, and we know that one of the challenges is that the right, or however you want to couch it, they have an ecosystem. They've spent 30 years building this infrastructure that has all of the component parts. And we are more in the early stages of Tinker Toys where we haven't quite figured out the map for putting it together. And therefore they are able to tell a story and have that story repeated multiple times before we can find the person to report the fact that we might know a story that we need to tell. So how are you fixing that?
- [24:58]
Cory Booker
So look, and that's where your listeners should know. It is not a you, it's an us. And you and I probably raised the same way. It's like my mama told me not to talk about problems in the world unless I was doing something about that, which I was complaining about. And never let your inability to do everything to undermine your determination to do something. And when I talk to young people who all have social media accounts, I'm like, audit your own social media. Am I elevating the voices that I think need to be heard more? Am I communicating the information? I may not know everything about every issue, but I know something about environmentalism or I know something about housing, or I know something about where people can find a better job opportunity how much are we sharing information and elevating information and liking information that we think is important because it all feeds a larger algorithm. And the Republicans have been so smart and going out and engaging with influencers and building up voices so that now when Ted Cruz rants in a hearing, he puts that on his platforms. But then all of a sudden, there's all of these people ready to jump on that and elevate the content. In fact, the meeting I just referenced, I showed them the anatomy of how one of their stories went viral and how much their ecosystem swarmed around content, elevated it in a significant way and pushed it out. But yet we are letting some of the most compelling voices go unheard because we're not understanding our role in that ecosystem. And so my goal right now is to, number one, help my individual colleagues, like I learned when I was mayor of the city of Newark and brought our city far better attention and focus on how incredible and special our city was. When all the major media wanted to do was talk about how different violent it is or corrupt it is, which wasn't the full story, we found ways to elevate the stories of Newark and Newarkers through social media. Now we need to start talking about the issues that matter and looking towards the content that matters. And so I'm helping each individual senator think through strategically how they can better use the platforms that they control to get more engagement and to tell better stories. And we're already seeing some of the success with that, with a lot of my individual senators in the last eight days that Trump has been in office, getting far more views on their content than they had the month before prior. By finding ways to break through and to get people to start sharing stories. Is all of us, they say, oh, you're an influencer. All of us are influencers. I always cite the Stanford study that showed just by you walking down the street and picking up a piece of trash, there's one researcher has shown that people witnessing you do that affects the behavior of people. 3 degrees separation. Everything you do and say resonates. We're all little nodes in the intricate lattice of life. The energy we bring, how we show up, what we do, what we say affects people. The Internet is just a digital representation of the spiritual truth of humanity. As King said, we're all caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a common garment of destiny. But your silence and inaction as a node hurts us all because we need to hear your voice.
- [28:11]
Stacey Abrams
So let's say you live in a state that does not have Democratic senators representing you. Who are the three senators? Not including yourself, because everyone that we know is following you right now. Who are the next three people that you want them to follow if they don't want to follow Ted Cruz?
- [28:27]
Cory Booker
If you know a Democratic senator's name, follow them on social media. It's such a low cost thing to do. So if you know that senator's name, follow them. But while you're at it, follow some of the senators who are in difficult races in purple states. I just left Tina Smith in Minnesota, Jon Ossoff in Georgia, Gary Peters, who's in Michigan. These are senators that are in purple states, are gonna have tough reelections before them. But follow as many Democratic senators and congresspeople as you know of and then share their content. Let them know what's going on. It's such a low cost thing to do. Then simply click a follow button or click a like button. But it definitely helps to push the algorithm in that way.
- [29:10]
Stacey Abrams
So let's talk about algorithms and how time matters, because we are hearing a lot about the power of the president's first 100 days. And to your point, Stephen Miller and others, they are flooding the zone hoping to distract us. They know that chaos is effective. But you have been on both the majority and the minority side during this period. Can you talk about the importance of this stretch of time and how this impacts the kinds of policies we're gonna see, like putting aside the executive orders, which will be adjudicated in a lot of course of law. The issue for Congress in the first 100 days is what comes before you. So can you talk a little bit about what we need to be thinking about?
- [29:53]
Cory Booker
Well, Donald Trump is going to try to push as much as he can to get done in the shortest amount of time before the inertia of government gets to him. And that is usually an opportunity for Barack Obama to push, get the Affordable Care act done, for Joe Biden to get some of the most significant pieces of legislation in our lifetime that have helped everything from infrastructure all the way to the environment. But Donald Trump's bills, we've already seen some of the earliest bills, something called the Lake and Riley act, which is named after somebody who died horribly. But all of us would like to get violent criminals, be they undocumented or, frankly, American citizens, off the streets. But this bill would actually make us less safe because it mandates the detention of anybody who is undocumented or not a citizen. So you could be a dreamer here for 35 years, but you're 37. And you were brought when you were 2. You could be a first responder as a dreamer, you could be served in the military as a dreamer, you could be a business person as a dreamer, but you can be indefinitely detained for the accusation of stealing a candy bar, which anybody can make against you. And as soon as that accusation is made, even if it's proven to be false, you can be indefinitely detained. And so it's a bad bill that they pushed under the guise of, oh, we're making people safer. And because of their momentum, they were able to ram it through. There's another one about taking away reproductive rights, what they call late term abortions, but it's already a crime to kill a child after their birth. And it's just this exaggeration of issues in a way to try to catch the momentum of the moment, to ram something through. And so we're seeing a whole bunch of these bad bills coming through. And what's interesting about his bills so far is that none of them is doing the core thing that he ran his presidency around, which was lowering your costs, lowering inflation, making healthcare or groceries or housing more affordable. And again, I keep telling people this over and over again. What he's doing are things that are actually gonna make you less safe, less economically prosperous, and ultimately undermine our nation's communities and make them less thriving. And so this is, I think, a toxic period in which the President is really trying to show a lot of activity and energy that helps him get things into law that really have nothing to do with what he promised people.
- [32:24]
Stacey Abrams
So just staying on the issue of law enforcement, one of the most terrifying pronouncements is the intention that he has to send up to 10,000 U.S. troops to the border. The U.S. military is not legally allowed to play a law enforcement role domestically. The concern that I have and so many have, is that if he chooses to do this, the Defense Secretary P. Techseth will comply, and that right now our systems are too weak to stop him from taking even more dramatic steps, such as using immigration as a pretext. He can then do the same for protesters. You and I met in law school where hypotheticals actually felt hypothetical, but nothing seems to be off limits. So how should we think about that? And to your point, that is not what we signed up for and not what we should expect. But how do we prepare for this idea that the military could be deployed in our streets? Especially as a former mayor.
- [33:30]
Cory Booker
So you said it. Some of the foundations of our country's laws are that the military should have very focused Powers on defense. There's things in the Constitution that reflect these days that they never wanted to see come back where military was just taking over people's houses or undermining people's basic rights. And so here we are at a moment where he wants to do things with the military that are not only unorthodox, but even in his last administration, we saw military leaders fighting to stop him. When he tried to turn the military on protesters in front of the White House, thank God there were military leaders that were independent of his designs. There were checks and balances on his power. Well, we now have the most unchecked and unbalanced president there is, thanks to a Supreme Court that was designed by him that told them there's no legal consequences whatsoever for you if you should break the law. If somebody gave him the hypothetical of if you turn the United States military on American citizens, could you be tried in American courts for that? And the Supreme Court in essence said universally no. So he's a guy that feels like he has no checks. He's now hiring people, some of the most important positions not based on their qualifications. Hagseth is one of the most unqualified people ever to serve in that job, if not the most unqualified. He's hiring them based upon ideas of loyalty to him. And you can see that from the FBI to the military to some other positions, it's a loyalty test, not a qualifications test. And so that makes me very concerned that when the military is starting to be ordered to do things that there's no, no democratic traditions of them doing how they can be violative of the rights of people here in the United States who are citizens, who are simply going about their God given rights, which is to protest the government, to petition their government to peacefully assemble and more. When you start seeing people confirmed where there's enemies lists they have against people who are state legislatures or members of the media, we should all be very concerned and not think that this is beyond what Trump can do. I thought it was beyond what Trump could do about undermining the peaceful transfer of power. So we should take nothing for granted in our democracy. And these should things like this should raise our alarm bells.
- [35:58]
Stacey Abrams
What do we do with that concern? I mean, we know that this confirmation process is terrifying, but focusing on the confirmation process as a whole is a full time job. When people have these concerns, one, what aspect of these early processes should we be focused on and then what should we do with that concern?
- [36:22]
Cory Booker
Well, look, again, we all have the power to speak out and not let things simply go by. And that's why I think for those of us that are on social media platforms or listen to podcasts like this, is to take content that speaks to your concerns, share it, elevate it. Let people know that you're a source in your community of truth telling, of not letting these things go by. Because I saw in Trump's first term that when there are people that are gonna stand up, speak up, even act up in nonviolent ways, they can make a difference. His attempt to tear away health care from tens of millions of Americans was stopped by the activism and the engagement of people. And so the first thing is you are not powerless to speak up. And we again noted our ancestors at the beginning of this show who were never silent in the face of wrongdoing. And so that's, number one, is to let people know that you have a voice and you're gonna use it in these times. The second thing I would say that's just really important for folks beyond telling the truth is to find those organizations that are engaged, that are doing something. I will tell you right now, on all of these issues, there are nonprofits and organizing groups that are doing something. Again, do not let your inability to do everything to undermine your determination to do something.
- [37:49]
Stacey Abrams
Absolutely.
- [37:50]
Cory Booker
Even if it's just, I'm going to send a dollar to this person or this organization. You and I know this, Stacey, because significant amounts of the resources that we've used to stay in office and help other people were small dollar contributors. You don't have to be Elon Musk to do something in the cause of justice. So find small actions that you can do One speaking up and then do one thing to support people that are trying to organize. Because that's where our power comes from. As the old African saying, sticks in a bundle can't be broken. Bringing people together who are focused on an issue often could give more strength than you believe you have as an individual.
- [38:30]
Stacey Abrams
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- [40:38]
Cory Booker
This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's Emmy Award winning series the Daily Show. Jon Stewart and the Daily Show News Team are kicking off 2025 with brand new episodes covering a brand new administration and a not quite brand new president. While it may feel like we've all been here before, it's never been covered like this with Jon Stewart behind the Desk kicking off every week Comedy Central's the Daily show new tonight at 11 on Comedy Central and streaming next day on Paramount plus.
- [41:07]
Stacey Abrams
So when I met you, we were in law school. You were a 3L who deigned to talk to us, who were just getting there. And I just remember how beloved you were. You were known as someone who would go out of his way to broker compromise or to understand the needs of everyone who's involved in dispute. I thought you worked there. I didn't realize you were just a student. You were willing to engage even if it wasn't your thing. Not interfere, but engage. And what I found later was that you very famously talked about how love is at the center of your politics and your approach to public service. How do you hold your commitment to that ideation in the midst of all of this pain and anger and rancor, it seems hard to me that someone who's sitting in the Capitol with people who, you know, know better and are refusing to do better, how do you navigate that? How do you internally hold to what has remained for, you know, 25 years this very central ethos, that love is at the center of what you do?
- [42:18]
Cory Booker
Well, I resist the people that think that love is weakness or meekness or silence. I just think that what I first and foremost tell folks is I am not going to let Donald Trump change me. I'm not going to let him contort my being so that I become something that I'm not and really focus on what my calling is in this world, which is to show up, which is to engage and remember that every ground is not a battleground, that I can find ways to stand my ground, but also draw people to common ground at the same time. What is your point to life if it's not to remind people that we belong to each other, that we share a common humanity, that somehow in this crazy diverse nation, we can come together and create something special. And if you can not let the ugliness of the world turn you ugly, the darkness of the world to somehow extinguish your light, then you're the kind of hero that this country needs. And I'm not good on. Every day, there are days I get angry, and anger is actually something I think that's important because Fannie Lou Hamer got angry, Sojourner Truth got angry, Harriet Tubman got angry. But let your anger fuel your action, not in some way consume you as a person.
- [43:48]
Stacey Abrams
What I appreciate so much is embedded in that is this recognition of the legitimacy of anger, but the strategy of engagement, that for you, love is your strategy of engagement. And that anger is not the antithesis or incompatible with.
- [44:08]
Cory Booker
It's a necessary angry. If you're not angry, what's wrong with you? And if America hasn't broken your heart, you don't love her enough.
- [44:18]
Stacey Abrams
But then the question becomes, for those who are desperate to see this righteous anger, one of the things they're looking to you and your colleagues for is some demonstration of fight. Not necessarily invective and polemical degradation of another person's humanity, but something that says, we share your anger and we're going to do something about it. And that's why you're seeing a lot of think pieces about how Democrats should do nothing with Republicans, how they should own it, and we just let everything fall. How do you respond to those who say that the way to show the righteous anger, to show the fight, is to say, no, you own it, you broke it, you deal with it yourself.
- [45:04]
Cory Booker
So I revere W.E.B. du Bois and Booker T. Washington, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X revere them both. There is not one way to go about this. And before you're speaking about someone else's activism, they may share your same motivation, but maybe not the same way you go about working. Look at yourself first. Am I fully showing up and doing everything I can do? It's so easy to criticize folks. And so I've chosen my way. I am going to be, if you follow me on social media, you're going to hear me being loud and angry about a lot of things, but you're also gonna see me huddling with Republicans on the Senate floor trying to find a way to not allow foreign aid. This is my battle this morning when Trump just universally froze foreign aid. Well, that is seriously threatening the lives of people from Sudan to Ukraine. And I can't just scream about it on the Senate floor. I need to sit with Lindsey Graham, who I know has Trump's ear, and talk to him about how I can unfreeze vital life saving aid. And so before people criticize me because I saw you talking to Lindsey Graham or I saw you sitting with this world leader who is a killer or what have you, I'm sorry, I've made a decision that New Jersey sent me to Washington to deliver results that are best for our national security or best for our values or best for people in our state. But I want everybody to again, to not succumb to cynicism, but to rise to activism. And that's what you've got to have in so many ways, a conversation with yourself every day and deciding how I'm going to show up. And if what defines you is how you're criticizing other more, how you're criticizing other people's actions and not how much you're deciding and strategizing what should be your own, then I think that that's a little problematic to me.
- [47:05]
Stacey Abrams
I think that's well said. So, Corey, you've previously said that doing a small action radiates light into this universe and illuminates darkness. And one of the reasons I was so excited to get you on the podcast is that one of our key missions is to help people feel empowered through their actions. And one of the things we do at the end of the podcast is that I answer listener questions. But what I wanted to do today is give one of them to you because I have one that's perfect for you. So her name is Kim. She is a retired school library media specialist. And she asks how can I effectively communicate with my legislators? This is the route most often suggested when I search for how to make a difference. But I feel like my efforts are not unlike sending words into the ether with no response, much less any effective difference being made. I will be relentless at this if I know how to do it effectively. And so she goes on to share some specific questions, like how can I make myself heard? How should I compose my letters? How effective are scripted letters versus those that I come up with myself? What platform should I use? Should I make these communications public? I mean, she's got a very long list. So do you have any specific suggestions for Kim as the chair of strategic communications for the U.S. senate Democratic caucus? And can you share examples of why this would have changed your mind as a mayor, as a senator, as a political leader?
- [48:35]
Cory Booker
So first of all, I love that she's asking that question because it's a question I get a lot too, not about my office, but about how do they get through the people, especially if they're in a state or a district where they're persons of a different party than them. So first of all, I will tell you that most good offices in state legislature, city councils, or United States Senate do pay attention to the incoming they get. But I will say this, that the more people they get calling in, the better. So I would say not just your communicating with that office, but making it easy for your friends and others. I love when people put the number on their social media. Call your legislator today, let them know. So that's one thing is trying to increase the volume of people that are reaching out to a legislator is really important. Number two, I would say it is being creative in how you communicate. Because if you're just giving a form to some legislature, I think that's treated a lot differently than somebody seeing a heartfelt, detailed letter. A lot of offices ask for sampling at times and those are the letters that would get through to me more than somebody writing a form letter. And then the last thing I will say, and again, I think you know this, Stacy, is like when you organize with other people of like minds. So much of life is about organizing and connecting and you're speaking for yourself is one thing. But if you're speaking for A larger group of people that could often get you a meeting, come together with others who share your issue. You're gonna speak with a lot more volume and break through in a much more significant way. And then just the ethos of the show. I gotta go back to what you said. The greatest mistake people make is underestimating the power they have. Each and every one of us have power. And you may not be able to change the mind of a president or United States senator. You should try, and you should talk and organize and do all of that. But the biggest thing you can do in any day is a small act of kindness, decency, love, or justice. So please use your moral imagination every day for how you show up, how you talk to people, how you try to bring people together, or that small act of kindness that you think might go unnoticed but radiates into this world that needs so much more decency, goodness and kindness.
- [51:04]
Stacey Abrams
Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, my dear friend, you're just one of my favorite people. Thank you so much for spending time with us on Assembly Required.
- [51:14]
Cory Booker
Well, that is mutual. That what you've done for me in my lifetime and especially my decade in the Senate has been invaluable. And I'm grateful that you've got this podcast or place for me to direct people when they need not just instruction and information, but also to have a little bit of heart healing and nourishing in a very difficult time.
- [51:38]
Stacey Abrams
Thank you, sir.
- [51:39]
Cory Booker
Thank you.
- [51:48]
Stacey Abrams
Trump's first week in office has made it very clear that he and his party are determined to eviscerate the very concept of norms, that idea that there are certain aspects of American life and American politics that no one can violate. Yet we learned the first time around that there is no shortage of harmful actions that he and his Republican allies are willing to take to implement their dark vision for America. But this time around, we are also more informed, we're more engaged, and we understand that even the smallest action can make a difference, just like Senator Booker talked about. So let's turn to our toolkit. We're going to be curious about which senators we know and which ones we're following. So you're going to go and look at your social media feed, do a social media audit, and be curious about who you're following. Make sure that you've got people on your list that are doing things that can change your life. So that's your first job. Second, we're going to solve problems. We're going to invest in ourselves and invest in each other, and that's why Senator Booker mentioned Send a dollar to an organization that matters to you. Maybe it's a dollar a month, but those small amounts add up. And we know that right now there are organizations that are working hard to correct and to fix and to help. We know that food banks are doing a lot of work, but we also know that groups that provide support to immigration and that provide support to communities that are being hit hard by these executive orders could use your support. You can't do everything, but you can do something. And lastly, do good. Over the next few weeks, I want you to intentionally post something that's encouraging. Send it through your social media feed. Text friends, but make sure you're telling as many people as you can something that reminds them that this is a fight worth fighting. Don't say anything untrue, but say something that lifts your spirits. Repost podcasts like this one and have conversations with folks who might simply need to hear from a friend. We have the ability in this moment to do what we can for whomever we can and as Corey said, small actions make a difference. So if you want to tell us what you've learned and solved, send us an email@assemblyrequiredricket.com or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be Featured on the pod. Our number is 213-293-9509. That wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. I'll meet you here next week. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is a Crooked Media production. Our lead show producer is Ilona Minkowski and our associate producer is Paulina Velasco. Kiril Palaviv is our video producer. This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis. Our theme song is by Vasilius Fotopoulos. Thank you to Matt De Groat, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, and Samantha Slosberg for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long, Madeline Herringer and me, Stacey Abrams. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
- [55:18]
Cory Booker
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