Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Episode: Hegseth’s Strike Order, “Remigration” & the Midterm Stakes
Guest: Alex Wagner
Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the erosion of democratic norms and the rising tide of authoritarianism in America, focusing on recent troubling events: the extrajudicial killings in the Caribbean linked to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, talk of “remigration” policies echoing far-right, anti-immigrant sentiment, and the razor-thin House majority ahead of the 2026 midterms. Stacey Abrams welcomes journalist and new Crooked Media podcast host Alex Wagner, whose reporting digs beneath the headlines to center the human stories, bringing urgency to the battle for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of American Democracy & Authoritarian Creep

• Stacey Abrams opens by outlining a series of escalating anti-democratic moves:

  • Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, allegedly ordered the execution of survivors from a missile strike on a fishing boat, bypassing due process ([02:09]).
  • The President plans to pardon Honduras's corrupt former President, convicted of drug trafficking ([02:09]).
  • Domestic surveillance rises, dissent is criminalized, and pro-democracy nonprofits are targeted ([02:09]).

• Abrams frames these as clear signs of a slide into autocracy—steps taken purposefully to erode democratic checks and balances and normalize impunity.

“Men bobbing on boats off the coast of Venezuela who received neither due process nor trial have been summarily executed by the US military. Yet a proven drug trafficker serving 45 years in prison... has been given a get out of jail free card as a favor. Because autocrats look out for each other.” —Stacey Abrams ([03:12])

2. The Human Cost Behind the Headlines

• Alex Wagner discusses her podcast, Runaway Country, designed to counteract public numbness by telling the stories of real people affected by big political developments ([09:40]).
• Wagner highlights her conversation with an Epstein survivor, emphasizing that headline-making events have lasting impacts on real lives, trauma, and memory.

“People understand we're living in serious times... but I thought, how do we get people to sort of re engage with what's happening to them in their democracy? And I think one of the best ways to do that is by storytelling.” —Alex Wagner ([09:49])

• Storytelling is crucial to rebuilding empathy and civic engagement, whether it’s the trauma of Epstein survivors or invisible suffering from immigration raids and overloaded courts ([12:24], [13:55]).

3. Weaponizing Narratives for Authoritarian Ends

• Abrams and Wagner examine how stories are politicized and weaponized—using the example of a DC shooting by a former Afghan national guardsman, itself a complex tragedy turned into fuel for anti-immigrant, “remigration” rhetoric by the Trump administration ([16:17], [17:42]).

“Unfortunately, the fact that this assailant was an Afghan citizen is a convenient lever for Trump to pull in the name of... really effectively like a Nazi era policy of remigration.” —Alex Wagner ([19:28])

• They stress the importance of not letting these stories be reduced to talking points for racist or exclusionary policies, but rather confronting their multidimensional realities.

4. The Price—and Necessity—of Truth-Telling

• Wagner reflects on the shifting stakes for journalists: impartiality now equals resistance to fascism because the government is openly campaigning against dissent and accountability ([23:31]).

“If you are in the business of journalism and truth telling, you are in the fight. Like, you are literally, by virtue of wanting to tell stories and accurately report what's happening, you are a combatant against this administration.” —Alex Wagner ([23:31])

• Both agree this comes at real personal risk—being targeted and name-checked by the administration and having family members at risk—but see the worth and privilege of being able to fight back ([25:26], [26:34]).

5. The Hegseth War Crime Allegation: Why This Moment Resonates

• The Washington Post story about Hegseth’s strike order stands out amid years of outrage fatigue ([27:46]).
  • Wagner notes the vivid horror of the imagery: survivors clinging to wreckage, then deliberately killed (“the depravity of that strike”).
  • She highlights that seeing an unqualified, unserious official wield such deadly power in Americans’ name is finally resonating.

“The depravity of that strike, the second strike, I think, is really emotionally resonant… two people floating in the water after their boat has been destroyed, clinging to life.” —Alex Wagner ([28:27])

• There’s also a growing sense the administration is finally vulnerable due to recent setbacks—the Epstein files, bipartisan dissent—which could mean real accountability ([30:32]).

6. Dangers of False Hope and Structural Power

• Both warn against reading too much into political drama as a “turning point;” real progress happens in slow, painful increments ([32:39]).
• Despite some optimism, the Republican Party remains shackled to Trump and toxic, anti-democratic policies ([34:08]).
• Wagner: “They will be clinging to that life raft for as long as they can because they have nothing without it. And it is all toxic.” ([34:08])

7. Language as a Battleground

• The Coast Guard’s brief policy softening towards hate symbols like swastikas sparks alarm about dangerous rhetorical shifts:
  • Attempts to neutralize language (e.g. “witch hunt,” “harassment” instead of “hate incident”) are a purposeful step in making accountability impossible ([38:10], [39:21], [43:11]).

“When you steal language from people, that’s stealing. The first way in which we hold people accountable is by the accusation. If you can no longer make the accusation itself, then that undermines the entire system.” —Alex Wagner ([42:55])

• Abrams lays out the “nefarious triad”—delegitimize language, use litigation to remove protections, and use legislation to prevent new ones ([43:26]).

8. The Peril and Opportunity of the Razor-Thin House Majority

• Abrams worries that the shrinking House Republican majority (due to retirements) is cause for vigilance, not celebration; a weakened GOP majority will double down on extremism ([44:45]).
• Wagner agrees: Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, has only solidified his alliance with the far-right; the coming cycle could see attempts to delay or outright deny seating lawfully-elected Democrats ([45:48]).
• Both warn of chaos, election denial, and further attempts to undermine democracy as Trump and his allies grow desperate ([49:26]).

“The Trump administration is telling us explicitly that they want to steal the election… they are going to use militarization and the National Guard and the threat of, I don't know, blue cities voting to try and suppress the vote. They will use every lever they have to stop the House from going blue.” —Alex Wagner ([48:30])

9. Actions, Wins, and Homework

• Despite the dire landscape, Wagner and Abrams highlight the power of collective action, women’s organizing, and the critical need for optimism and accountability.
• Homework Assignment: Wagner urges listeners to support local journalism:
  • Buy or gift subscriptions to local newspapers, especially those reporting on state & local governance, as “the most practical, real life information we get about the realities of the federal government.” ([54:03])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Victories like election wins in November or the release of the Epstein files can be seductive, convincing us that we're only a few dominoes away from this regime toppling under its own ignominy. Democracy isn't an abstract. It's about the ability of families to eat at a time when food security is under attack and the worst is yet to come.” —Stacey Abrams ([05:44])

• “I'm not suggesting that Republicans should have a wider majority in the House, but I do think, and I think everybody needs to be acutely aware of this. The Trump administration is telling us explicitly that they want to steal the election.” —Alex Wagner ([48:30])

• “Just laying out exactly how much we expect from the moment. I don't think we should be overly expectant that this is the end of Trump's power... They got nothing without this dude. And they're gonna cling...” —Alex Wagner ([34:08])

• “The point is, support the people that are out there telling the truth and keeping and holding people accountable. That would be my suggestion in homework, especially in this holiday season.” —Alex Wagner ([54:37])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• (02:09) – Abrams’ opening monologue: the Hegseth killings, pardon of Hernandez, attack on civil society
• (09:01) – Alex Wagner discusses Runaway Country and the need for storytelling
• (13:55) – The importance of narrative: immigration, trauma, and building empathy
• (16:17) – DC shooting case, weaponizing stories for anti-immigrant policy
• (23:31) – Journalism, impartiality, and truth-telling under threat
• (27:46) – Hegseth’s strike order: why this atrocity is resonating now
• (32:39) – Avoiding false hope: the slow, hard fight for accountability
• (38:10) – Coast Guard hate policy: language and accountability
• (44:45) – The midterms, razor-thin majority, and risk of Republican escalation
• (54:03) – Alex Wagner’s homework: support local independent journalism

Closing Homework & Action Steps

• Support Local Journalism – Buy, gift, or donate subscriptions, especially in vulnerable states, to uphold informed democracy ([54:03])
• Engage in Storytelling & Truth-Telling – Amplify the human cost behind policy headlines in your community
• Call for Health Care Access – Join the Just Fix It campaign to pressure Congress to protect ACA subsidies ([56:02])

This episode is a call to vigilance, action, and empathy: understanding the human stakes behind every headline, refusing to let authoritarian tactics numb or divide us, and taking tangible steps—big and small—to safeguard democracy.