Podcast Summary: Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Episode: How 3.5% of People Can Change Everything

Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Stacey Abrams
Guest: Erica Chenoweth, Political Scientist and Scholar of Nonviolent Civil Resistance

Episode Overview

In this episode, Stacey Abrams explores the real power of grassroots civil resistance, focusing on the research-backed “3.5% rule,” which posits that if 3.5% of a nation’s population engages in sustained nonviolent resistance, movements can succeed—even against overwhelming odds. Joined by leading scholar Erica Chenoweth, Abrams unpacks the history, tactics, and data behind successful nonviolent protests, connecting these lessons to today’s urgent fight to preserve American democracy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Historical Power of Civil Resistance

• Stacey opens with personal stories of protest and boycott from her family, highlighting that disruption is a vital step toward freedom and power. (01:25)
• Anecdote: Stacey shares her own participation in boycotts, including refusing to eat Raisin Bran Crunch in solidarity with the farm workers’ grape boycott.

Erica Chenoweth’s Background and Research Genesis

• Chenoweth recounts how she began researching nonviolent conflict (07:14):

  “I was somebody studying questions about political violence... I was accidentally, maybe, invited to a workshop on People Power and Pedagogy... I left that workshop with a commitment to study whether, over time, nonviolent methods were as effective, or more effective, than armed struggle.”

• This led to their foundational book with Maria Stephan, "Why Civil Resistance Works."

Defining Civil Resistance and Nonviolence

• Abrams and Chenoweth clarify that protest is just one tactic within a broad toolkit of civil resistance (09:56).

• Civil resistance includes:

  • Protests, boycotts, strikes
  • Non-cooperation and social ostracism
  • Building mutual aid and parallel institutions, especially when governments fail to serve their people.

• On nonviolence and confrontation (13:14):

  “Nonviolent resistance doesn’t mean avoiding confrontation or discomfort. Tactics can be highly disruptive, designed to build political, social, or economic pressure.”

The 3.5% Rule: Power in Numbers

• Chenoweth summarizes the core finding of her research (18:03):

  “Nonviolent civil resistance campaigns have been twice as likely to succeed as violent ones. This is, in part, because nonviolent methods invite participation from a broader range of society.”

• Why 3.5%? The number came from an activist’s question and was validated in their data: no movement with at least 3.5% active participation had failed between 1900–2006 (23:58).
• Caveats: 3.5% is a descriptive, not prescriptive, threshold. It’s a helpful, hopeful benchmark, but not a guarantee (27:51).

Success and Failure: What Makes or Breaks a Movement

• Success comes from:
  • Large, diverse participation (beyond “the usual suspects”)
  • Sustained action—“it takes years to build momentum”
  • Strategies that specifically target and break the regime’s ‘pillars of support’ (e.g. security forces, business leaders)
  • The ability to provoke defections from within the regime (22:49, 28:07)
• Failures: Not all movements succeed, even if they reach 3.5% participation (Bahrain 2011–2014, Brunei 1960s). Context matters, especially monarchies where solidarity among elites and external support can blunt movement strategy.

The Contemporary U.S. Protest Landscape

• Analysis of “No Kings” Protests (30:32):
  • Nearly 7 million participants on a single day in October—one of the largest events in US history.
  • Over 99.5% nonviolent—contrary to media narratives (30:32).
  • Greater protest diversity and penetration into ‘Trump country’ compared to 2017.
• Signs of real impact: Major institutions like universities, airports, and even the Chamber of Commerce have begun taking public positions against new autocratic policies—a sign of potential ‘pillar’ defections (32:50).
• Long-term outlook: Sustained, innovative action beyond street protest is essential.

Modern Challenges: Media, Misinformation, and Tech

• Media ecosystems are fragmented, impeding the viral impact that historic movements enjoyed via television coverage (35:48).
• Chenoweth’s advice: Keep recording and sharing acts of resistance. Even if immediate attention is elusive, documentation is critical for history and accountability (36:44).
• Tech platforms as pillars: Movements must regard tech companies as potential allies or obstacles. Historical boycotts succeeded by targeting not just primary antagonists, but the enabling economic structures (41:53).

Recognizing Authoritarianism and Building Political Alignment

• It’s often subtle and incremental, not always a coup or a single clear event (45:54).

  “People keep waiting for a bright line… But the reality is that we’re already deep into a backsliding episode.”

• Key advice: Build broad, values-based coalitions that transcend party lines and focus on democratic fundamentals—separation of powers, rule of law, civil liberties, free and fair elections (47:12).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stacey Abrams:

  “If there are 10 steps to autocracy and authoritarianism, there are 10 steps to freedom and power. One of the first steps is to commit to know that we are facing a true struggle for the soul and the future of America.” (01:10)

• Erica Chenoweth:

  “Movements that are trying to create a democracy or sustain a democracy or improve a democracy generally only get to do that if they're primarily using nonviolent resistance and people power methods to get there.” (22:49)

  “It’s not about the numbers. It’s about using that participation to activate the mechanisms: getting the pillars of support to defect.” (28:07)

  “People keep waiting for a bright line. But the reality is we’re already deep into a backsliding episode.” (45:54)

Important Timestamps

• 01:10 – Opening theme: Steps to authoritarianism & freedom
• 07:14 – Erica Chenoweth introduces her scholarship on civil resistance
• 09:56 – Civil resistance tactics explained
• 13:14 – Confrontation and disruption within nonviolent action
• 18:03 – Why nonviolent resistance outperforms violent movements
• 23:58 – The origins of the “3.5% rule”
• 28:07 – When the rule didn’t work and why (failures)
• 30:32 – Analysis of the “No Kings” protest and signs of impact
• 35:48 – Influence of the contemporary media and information landscape
• 41:53 – Tech companies as modern “pillars of support”
• 45:54 – Recognizing authoritarian decline and the need for new coalition-building
• 47:12 – Practical advice for building broad-based pro-democracy action

Listener Q&A: Ranked Choice Voting vs. Jungle Primaries (53:02)

• Listener question: How to bring ranked choice voting (RCV) into national elections.
• Stacey’s advice:
  • Start with local action—press city councils and state legislatures to adopt RCV.
  • The more local and state governments use RCV, the more likely it can be adopted nationally.
• RCV vs. Jungle Primaries:
  • Jungle primaries: All candidates compete together, top two advance.
  • RCV: Voters rank preferences, ensuring broader support and less “spoiler” effect.

Takeaways and Calls to Action

• Engage in a variety of civil resistance tactics: protest, boycott, organize, build community support, and pressure institutional pillars.
• Document and share resistance efforts even when it feels futile.
• Action steps: Donate to causes, participate in boycotts, vote in local elections, contact officials, volunteer with food banks, and help shape pro-democracy coalitions.
• Stay persistent and patient: Meaningful change is incremental and demands resilience.

Additional Resources

• Recommended Reading: “Why Civil Resistance Works” by Erica Chenoweth & Maria Stephan
• 10stepcampaign.org: Updated resources and toolkit to support democracy defenders
• Protest Safety Guides: American Civil Liberties Union, Wired

This summary delivers the essential analysis, insights, and action items from the episode, equipping listeners (and non-listeners) to understand and participate in transformative civil resistance movements.