Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Episode Title: How Big Tech Has Sold Us Out
Date: December 11, 2025
Guest: Tim Wu, author of The Age of Extraction, professor, and former special assistant to the President for Technology and Competition Policy

Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Stacey Abrams interrogates how technological innovation, specifically through the dominance of Big Tech platforms, has transformed from visions of democracy and equality into systems of manipulation, extraction, and economic and political authoritarianism. With guest Tim Wu, the episode dissects how tech companies profit by manipulating our data, attention, and lives, and explores what citizens and policymakers can do to counter their outsized power.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Promise vs. Reality of the Internet

• [08:31] Abrams asks Tim Wu, “What did we think the Internet was going to bring us compared to where we've ended up?”
  • Wu reflects:
    • The original promise: democratization, creativity, wealth for all, and societal leveling.
    • “It was going to be, among other things, the great leveler. It was going to portend a different kind of society...Where there was no difference between rich and poor, no difference between big media, little media.” (Tim Wu, 09:35)
    • Reality: That promise has not materialized.

2. The Age of Extraction: How Tech Companies Profit

• [09:48-10:57]
  • Early platforms like Amazon empowered small entrepreneurs, but monopolization shifted tech platforms towards extracting “anything they can—money, data, time, attention—from consumers and sellers alike.”
  • “We became reliant on them, then they started the extraction stage. And really that's where we are today.” (Tim Wu, 10:21)

3. Net Neutrality & The Utility Framework

• [10:58-12:45]
  • Net neutrality: treat Internet service like a public utility.
  • Wu likens loss of net neutrality to an unregulated electric provider—leading to price gouging and arbitrary discrimination.
  • “Utilities not be allowed to use their power in a totally unrestrained way.” (Tim Wu, 11:18)
  • Trump administration rolled back net neutrality, compounding issues.

4. When Tech Became ‘Evil’: Shift to Shareholder-Centered Models

• [14:13-15:59]
  • Abrams brings up the “Don’t be evil” ethos of Google.
  • Wu identifies a turning point: when Google fully embraced the for-profit, shareholder-first model, breaking prior commitments to ethical business.
  • “I think they violated every single promise in [their letter to shareholders].” (Tim Wu, 14:54)

5. Why Government Failed to Rein in Tech

• [15:59-17:33]
  • U.S. history of benign neglect for “cute little companies” until monopolies arise. Government’s lingering admiration for tech as innovation stymied necessary regulation.
  • “We failed at part two...We let them monopolize these markets, and now they're just taking all they can.” (Tim Wu, 17:23)

6. The Political Cost of Convenience & Authoritarian Drift

• [17:47-20:07]
  • Abrams: “One of the tools for authoritarians is to make resistance inconvenient.”
  • Wu: “The most powerful force...is convenience. What is easiest tends to win. And I think the tech companies understand that very well.” (18:51)
  • Our addiction to convenience (shopping, transport, social media) makes it easier for tech monopolies—and by extension, authoritarian politics—to control and manipulate.

7. Erosion of Labor and Economic Fairness

• [22:33-26:10]
  • Labor imbalance: tech companies have virtually no union counterweight.
  • Union power once balanced corporate power; now, “to say it's balanced by union power is crazy. And particularly in tech...there's no really strong unions facing the power of the tech companies.” (Tim Wu, 25:45)
  • Extraction-focused business logic now infects not only tech but politics.

8. "Inshittification" and the Tech Cartel

• [27:38-29:42]
  • Abrams references Cory Doctorow’s "inshittification"—platforms intentionally degrading user experience to maximize extraction after seizing market power.
  • Wu: “You depreciate the quality...increase all the factors that are ways of extracting money...Amazon’s margins went from 20% to 50-60% for sellers.” (Tim Wu, 28:25-28:50)

9. The Role of Economic Theory and Policy Failure

• [29:42-32:14]
  • Neo-classical (Chicago School, etc.) economics valorized monopolies and discouraged antitrust enforcement.
  • Wu: “...an entire generation of economists who...decided the government intervention...was always a terrible idea. So I think there's a lot of blame to go around.” (Tim Wu, 31:29)

10. Democratic Deficit: Congress and Regulatory Collapse

• [35:41-41:23]
  • Abrams: U.S. institutions rely too much on trust and “gentleman’s agreements.”
  • Wu: “We were not aggressive enough in our fight against the rise of private power...we should have been all out there fighting unaffordability for average Americans and using much more power, being less constrained.” (Tim Wu, 36:52-38:35)
  • Congress is the last (and now missing) check on corporate tech power.

11. Tech, Disinformation, and the Information Crisis

• [41:23-45:47]
  • Social platforms magnify misinformation and destroy consensus.
  • Wu: “A complete system of tailored echo chambers that drives rage, dissatisfaction, anger, and it deepens the resentment. And with it is a lot of false information, a lot of lying.” (Tim Wu, 43:09)
  • Suggests new privacy laws, a public broadcaster, and revisiting media regulation (e.g., Fairness Doctrine) as potential remedies.

12. AI, Algorithmic Justice, and Societal Biases

• [46:04-48:55]
  • Abrams: Tech (especially AI) is reinforcing and amplifying societal biases, not correcting them.
  • Wu: “There's this kind of terrible idea out there that technology just kind of evolves naturally towards some God ordained justice and is perfect. No, it's exactly what comes out of it is what we put into it.” (Tim Wu, 47:23)

13. What American Society Can Learn from Denmark

• [49:25-52:16]
  • Wu argues against the myth that inequality is necessary for prosperity.
  • “It's like you have to let there be a super wealthy class and a super poor class for the country to be wealthy. It's just crazy. And I think when you look at Denmark...All these periods are periods of enormous growth and wealth, but also equality coming from the fact you have distributed wealth.” (Tim Wu, 49:56-51:03)

14. Action Steps: What Can Listeners Do?

• [52:16-54:19]
  • Consumer choices: Seek out alternatives to Big Tech in search, social, and browsing.
  • Political action: “Vote for candidates who are focused on the problems of affordability and economic unfairness, who have shown their commitment to these causes and don't get wimpy when it really matters.”
  • Cultural shift: Think about the kind of country you want to help rebuild.
  • “We need to recapture that [reformist] spirit because...the writing's on the wall. This insane clown car model is not going that much further...So we need right now to start thinking...because it's all coming crashing down. We're going to rebuild.” (Tim Wu, 53:41-54:18)

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On loss of net neutrality:
  “Unfortunately, the Trump administration has abandoned net neutrality. There's no limits on Internet pricing. I also think the tech platforms have gotten worse, but broadband companies have just taken too much from everybody.” (Tim Wu, 13:18)

• On how tech platforms manipulate with convenience:
  “The most powerful force...is convenience. What is easiest tends to win.” (Tim Wu, 18:51)

• On labor imbalance:
  “Today we have the corporate power, but to say it's balanced by union power is crazy.” (Tim Wu, 25:45)

• On platform decline (“inshittification”):
  “You depreciate the quality of the experience and you increase all the ... ways of extracting money.... Amazon’s so called advertising, sponsored links for which they earned unbelievable $56 billion last year, more than double every newspaper on earth. So it's the same thing getting worse so that you get less and so that they take more. That isn’t shitification.” (Tim Wu, 28:25-29:42)

• On tech and democracy:
  “Fighting for democracy must go beyond the vote for who holds office and include a vote on who gets our data and our loyalty.” (Stacey Abrams, 07:46)

• On AI and bias:
  “There's this kind of terrible idea out there that technology just kind of evolves naturally towards some God ordained justice and is perfect. No, it's exactly what comes out of it is what we put into it.” (Tim Wu, 47:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:06] – Introduction to episode theme
• [08:05] – Tim Wu joins, context set
• [08:33 – 10:57] – The Internet’s promise versus today’s reality: Age of Extraction
• [10:58 – 13:18] – Net neutrality as a public utility
• [14:13 – 15:59] – What went wrong: tech’s shift from “Don’t be evil”
• [17:47 – 18:51] – Convenience as the new monopolistic force
• [22:33 – 26:10] – The collapse of labor counterweights
• [27:38 – 29:42] – Inshittification and tech as a cartel
• [35:41 – 41:23] – Government and regulatory failures
• [41:23 – 45:47] – Misinformation, disinformation, and weakened news ecosystems
• [46:04 – 48:55] – AI, algorithmic justice, and the need for public input
• [49:25 – 52:16] – Lessons from Denmark on distributed wealth
• [52:16 – 54:19] – Listener homework: resist, reform, rebuild

Episode Takeaways & Listener Homework

• Be Curious: Explore alternatives to dominant tech platforms.
• Solve Problems: Contact Congress to protect AI regulation at state and local levels; urge local policymakers to act before federal preemption.
• Do Good: Take a “tech mini break”—reconnect offline, set digital boundaries.

Tone & Style

The conversation is urgent, clear-eyed, but ultimately optimistic. Abrams pushes for specific actions and systemic change while Wu gives measured, incisive historical and policy context—delivered with both critical rigor and pragmatic hope for reform.