How to Save the Environment from Trump and Project 2025

Summary

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Episode: How to Save the Environment from Trump and Project 2025
Release Date: January 9, 2025

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1. Introduction and Context

Stacey Abrams opens the episode by addressing the imminent inauguration of Donald Trump and the concerns surrounding his potential impact on environmental policies. She shares a personal anecdote about reconnecting with her niece Faith, highlighting the anxiety and anger felt by many in anticipation of Trump’s presidency.

Notable Quote:

"For all of us, the specter of the unknown is not just terrifying, it's paralyzing." — Stacey Abrams [01:22]

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2. Overview of Biden and Trump Environmental Policies

Abrams provides a comparative analysis of the environmental agendas between the outgoing Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration. She emphasizes the stark contrasts in their approaches to climate change and regulatory measures.

• Biden Administration:

  • Rejoined the Paris Climate Accords.
  • Passed the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), investing nearly $400 billion in reducing emissions, clean energy, and job creation.
  • Took measures to protect coastal areas from offshore drilling, conserving over 670 million acres of U.S. lands and waters.
    Quote:

  "President Biden passed the largest piece of climate legislation in history through the Inflation Reduction Act." — Stacey Abrams [02:01]

• Trump Administration:

  • Withdrew from the Paris Climate Accords.
  • Rolled back over 100 environmental regulations.
  • Consistently labeled climate change a hoax.
  • Promised to reverse Biden’s offshore drilling protections on day one.
    Quote:

  "I'll unban it immediately. I have the right to unban it immediately." — Donald Trump [03:12]

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3. Project 2025 and Its Implications

Abrams introduces Project 2025, a strategic blueprint outlining Trump’s policy reversals and regulatory rollbacks. The project aims to dismantle Biden’s climate initiatives and weaken environmental protections.

Quote:

"Project 2025 demonizes the Biden administration's climate policies and falsely minimizes the very complex impact of carbon emissions." — Stacey Abrams [04:00]

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4. Specific Areas of Concern

a. Inflation Reduction Act (IRA):

• Key Components:

  • Electric Vehicle (EV) Tax Credit: $7,500 for new EV purchases.
  • Home Electrification and Energy Efficiency: Grants for weatherization and induction stoves.
  • Utility-Scale Solar and Wind: Investments in large-scale renewable energy projects.

• Threats from Trump:

  • Potential repeal or suspension of tax credits through Congressional action.
  • Slowing the disbursement of IRA funds allocated for state programs.
    Quote:

  "Trump cannot do that on his own. But what he can do is slow a lot of the spigot of money that's coming out." — Teek Brute [10:43]

b. Offshore Drilling Protections:

• Biden’s Action: Issued presidential memoranda to safeguard vast coastal areas from oil and gas drilling.
• Trump’s Stance: Vowed to reverse these protections, though outright reversal would require Congressional approval.
  Quote:

  "President Biden did issue two presidential memoranda to protect vast areas from offshore oil leasing and drilling." — Stacey Abrams [03:30]

c. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):

• Trump’s Appointees:
  • Lee Zeldin: Head of the EPA, known for his anti-regulatory stance.
  • Chris Wright: Energy Secretary with a history in the fracking industry.
• Potential Actions:
  • Slashing EPA’s budget and authority.
  • Rolling back standards for clean air and water.
  • Shifting focus from enforcement to corporate self-regulation.
    Quote:

  "Lee Zeldin... is anti-regulation, America-first policymaker." — Teek Brute [20:03]

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5. Potential Impacts on Climate Goals

The episode delves into the ramifications of Trump's policies on global and domestic climate targets.

• Temperature Targets:

  • Current trajectory is heading towards 1.5°C to 2°C of global warming.
  • Trump's rollback could delay climate action, exacerbating the impacts of climate change.

• Consequences:

  • Increased frequency of billion-dollar storms.
  • More severe natural disasters, such as wildfires and floods.
    Quote:

  "We’re headed well past 1 degree Celsius of warming, towards 1.5, probably towards 2 degrees Celsius of warming." — Teek Brute [06:58]

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6. Strategies to Counteract Trump’s Environmental Agenda

Abrams and her guest, Teek Brute, discuss actionable strategies for citizens to mitigate the negative impacts of Project 2025.

Key Strategies:

• Citizen Monitoring:

  • Use air and water quality monitors in homes.
  • Engage in citizen science initiatives to track environmental changes.

• Community Engagement:

  • Participate in local journalism and nonprofit efforts to highlight environmental issues.
  • Utilize tools like the federal registry and public comment periods to influence regulatory changes.

• Advocacy and Education:

  • Stay informed through reputable sources like Grist.org and InsideClimateNews.org.
  • Educate others about the importance of maintaining environmental protections.

Quote:

"Don't wait for the government to do its job when you can help move it along." — Stacey Abrams [43:54]

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7. Guest Insights from Teek Brute

Teek Brute, a senior staff writer at Grist, provides expert analysis on the effectiveness and limitations of Trump’s potential environmental rollbacks.

Key Insights:

• Regulatory Rollbacks:

  • Trump’s actions may delay but not entirely dismantle Biden’s climate initiatives.
  • Significant changes, like reversing the IRA, require Congressional approval, which is challenging due to political dynamics.

• Market Forces:

  • Despite political setbacks, market trends like the decreasing cost of renewable energy and the rise of heat pumps continue to advance the green transition independently of government policies.

• Long-Term Impacts:

  • Infrastructure developments favoring fossil fuels could have lasting negative effects on climate goals.
  • Tariffs on renewable energy components may hinder the growth of clean energy markets.
    Quote:

  "We are going to get further away from global and domestic emissions targets." — Teek Brute [14:57]

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8. Activation Steps for Listeners (Toolkit)

Stacey Abrams introduces the Toolkit segment, offering listeners practical steps to engage in environmental advocacy.

Steps:

1. Be Curious:

   • Read in-depth climate reporting.
   • Utilize digital tools to monitor local environmental issues.

2. Take Action:

   • Become a resident expert on specific environmental topics.
   • Engage with local policymakers and participate in public consultations.

3. Organize and Collaborate:

   • Form or join community groups focused on environmental protection.
   • Leverage social media to raise awareness and coordinate efforts.

Quote:

"Identify who studies what you care about... give you a summary once a week about what's going on." — Teek Brute [28:31]

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9. Conclusion and Actionable Steps

Abrams wraps up the episode by reinforcing the importance of individual and community actions in combating environmental degradation. She encourages listeners to stay informed, actively participate in advocacy, and support transparent and effective environmental policies.

Final Quote:

"We have the ability to change perspective and to alter the plot wherever we should. Think of therapy as your editorial partner, helping you write new chapters and create the meaningful story you deserve to live." — Faith [17:25]

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Key Takeaways:

• Project 2025 poses significant challenges to Biden’s environmental legacy, aiming to rollback critical climate initiatives.
• Citizen Engagement is crucial in monitoring and advocating for environmental protections.
• Market Forces such as the rise of renewable energy and energy-efficient technologies continue to drive the green transition despite political opposition.
• Community Action through local journalism, nonprofit involvement, and direct advocacy can mitigate the impacts of adverse policy changes.
• Personal Responsibility in monitoring one’s environment and educating others can foster resilience against regulatory rollbacks.

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For more insightful discussions and actionable strategies, tune into Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams every week. Stay engaged, stay informed, and take part in shaping a sustainable future.

Transcript

[Carnival Representative]

Meet Flip. She's one half of a Flip Flop.

[Flip]

That's me.

[Carnival Representative]

Who got left behind at Celebration Key, Carnival's exclusive paradise in Grand Bahama.

[Flip]

Uh, I chose to stay here.

[Stacey Abrams]

It really is paradise.

[Carnival Representative]

So now Flip spends her time lounging on the beach, swimming in the lagoon, and eating.

[Flip]

The only thing more impressive than my appetite are all the dining options.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Carnival Representative]

Have you tried food service to your cabana?

[Teek Brute]

Ooh, yum. Flip.

[Carnival Representative]

Where'd she go? Book your cruise. Vacation to Carnival, Celebration Cay, A paradise you'll want to lose yourself in. Ship's registry, the Bahamas and Panama.

[Guest Speaker]

Foreign.

[Stacey Abrams]

Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I'm your host, Stacey Abrams. Welcome back to our show. I hope everyone had a good holiday season, but now it's time to get back to work. Because we are mere weeks away from Trump's inauguration. My niece Faith, who many of you know helped me launch Assembly Required, was home from her first semester in college. We spent more time catching up on Silo and Cross. Both are really good shows than talking politics. But she did share how she was.

[Faith]

Adjusting after the election.

[Stacey Abrams]

Namely, we talked about how to process what she was hearing about the appointments, about deportations, about what the real reach.

[Faith]

Of the presidency is.

[Stacey Abrams]

Look, they both have about four years, Faith and Trump. The question is, what will he do with his? And how will it affect hers? For all of us, the specter of the unknown is not just terrifying, it's paralyzing.

[Faith]

And it's enraging that someone else might determine our destiny.

[Stacey Abrams]

But like I told Faith, he has some power. But no one has all of the power. Our job is to pool what we've got and see what we can make happen. One of the places where the unknown meets shared power is how we can.

[Faith]

Prepare for what will happen on the environment.

[Stacey Abrams]

It's far from the only area where the outgoing and incoming presidents have distinctly opposite visions, but it is definitely one of the most consequential. Just as a quick reminder, in his first term, Trump pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accords. He rolled back over 100 environmental regulations. Domestically, he has also consistently called climate change a hoax. President Biden passed the largest piece of climate legislation in history through the Inflation reduction act, or IRA, which invested nearly $400 billion into reducing emissions, shoring up clean energy, and creating jobs. Just this week, President Biden took further action to protect both the east and the west coast from offshore drilling. With this announcement, President Biden has now conserved over 670 million acres of America's lands and waters. Basically, every Biden climate policy is already a target for Trump's second term. Like that offshore drilling ban Biden just announced this Monday. Trump has already told Hugh Hewitt on his radio show that he'll change it on day one.

[Trump]

I see. It just came over that Biden has banned all oil and gas drilling across 625 million acres of US coastal territory. It's ridiculous. I'll unban it immediately. I will unban it. I have the right to unban it immediately. What's he doing? Why is he doing it?

[Stacey Abrams]

To clarify, President Biden did issue two presidential memoranda to protect vast areas from offshore oil leasing and drilling. But for those wondering, a presidential memorandum is a lot harder to rescind than an executive order. And undoing these on day one is not exactly realistic. It will take an act of Congress. I point this out because progress is in the details. As our regular listeners know, the thing we've been doing in preparation for Trump's second term is looking at Project 2025 and its policy suggestions as both chilling and glaring insight into what's coming and how we can fight back. You see, Project 2025 demonizes the Biden administration's climate policies and falsely minimizes the very complex impact of carbon emissions on everything from air quality to climate change. In addition to misleading the public, the document contains tons of recommendations to roll back environmental protections and gut the very agencies tasked with keeping our air and water clean and our communities safe. But there are glimmers of hope. For example, a recent victory in Deep Red Montana, where the state Supreme Court ruled 6 to 1 that Montana was violating the residents constitutional right to a clean environment by permitting oil, gas and coal projects without regard for global warming. We might be tempted to assume Trump is going to win, but we'd be wrong.

[Faith]

Our job is to understand what's threatened.

[Stacey Abrams]

Versus what's really possible and then do something about it. Here to help us understand the most significant threats and opportunities is journalist Teek Brute. He's a senior staff writer at grist, a non profit independent media organization dedicated to reporting on climate solutions and a just future. Teek has been following the Trump campaign and Project 2025's climate priorities. He's written stories from all over the world and we're lucky that he's able to join us here today on Assembly Required. Teek, thank you so much for joining us here on Assembly Required.

[Teek Brute]

Thanks for having me.

[Guest Speaker]

It's great to be here.

[Stacey Abrams]

So I want to start with a big picture question for those of us who watched Captain Planet. We understand that Donald Trump is no Dr. Blight, but can he wipe out four years of Biden's pro environmental policies in a single term?

[Teek Brute]

I think he can pause them and if and roll them back. It's a little bit unclear exactly how.

[Guest Speaker]

Bad it will be, but it's not.

[Teek Brute]

Going to be good.

[Stacey Abrams]

Okay, so no, Dr. Blake, the way.

[Teek Brute]

I look at it is that it sort of depends on who comes next in the next administration after Trump. You saw Trump roll back a bunch.

[Guest Speaker]

Of environmental regulations, then you saw Biden.

[Teek Brute]

Put them back in. And with a lot of these things, they take years to really have major.

[Guest Speaker]

Effects on, say, appliances or actual machines.

[Teek Brute]

That are getting put out in the world. So this tug and pull and tug and pull between administrations. I think at the very least, we're looking at delayed climate action, which I think is going to be probably the biggest impact.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Teek Brute]

We're headed well past 1 degree Celsius of warming, towards 1.5, probably towards 2 degrees Celsius of warming. We don't have the time really to.

[Guest Speaker]

Waste another four years of delays.

[Stacey Abrams]

So thinking about what Biden has put in place and how much power Trump has to stall it out, which of the component pieces have had the greatest potential impact and therefore could be stalled.

[Teek Brute]

Out, I think the rollback of the IRA is going to be a massive one. And I think stalling that will actually have more of an impact than some of the other things that that can be done.

[Guest Speaker]

But you are going to see Trump has vowed to stop leasing new land for offshore wind.

[Teek Brute]

I think that'll be major. And he's going to start leasing land for drilling and gas exploration. So I think you're going to start to see this shift away from an energy transition. It'll be pieces here and pieces there, but it's sort of going to be.

[Guest Speaker]

A lifeline for fossil fuels and sort.

[Teek Brute]

Of extend its life. And I think where you'll see the longest impacts is if it encourages new infrastructure that's going to last 30, 50, 100 years, and then you've baked in natural gas pipeline or whatever, it might be like a natural gas line to your house that will be there for.

[Guest Speaker]

Generations in a way that can't be undone.

[Teek Brute]

So I think it'll be sort of the sum of its parts. But it all encourages fossil fuel consumption and infrastructure build out in a way that I think over the long term will have climate impacts.

[Stacey Abrams]

So let's stick with the IRA for a moment. So it is the most significant climate action legislation in American history and a big piece of it looked at how we, I mean, despite the name Inflation Reduction act, it was, I think the most significant piece that, to your point, will have the longest shelf life was about how it changes our engagement with fossil fuels and with clean energy. Can you talk a little bit about some of the component pieces that were there? And as a part of that, what could Trump stop? What could he roll back? And what are things that are just moving too fast for him to, in his administration to, to have real impact?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah. So I think there are some things.

[Guest Speaker]

That consumers or most Americans will see the most.

[Teek Brute]

One is that EV electric vehicle tax credit. So that is $7,500 on many new electric vehicles. You get a tax credit towards buying that home electrification and home energy efficiency, everything from weatherization to getting $800 to put in a, an induction stove in your home.

[Guest Speaker]

So those are some of the consumer.

[Teek Brute]

Side ones and impacts that I think.

[Guest Speaker]

People will see a lot of.

[Teek Brute]

But then there are larger ones like encouraging utility scale solar and wind and, you know, training workforces of contractors to be sort of literate in this world.

[Guest Speaker]

So the range is huge.

[Teek Brute]

And of course, there are some controversial things like, you know, support of hydrogen, which is often fossil fuel based. So we'll see exactly what Trump is able to roll back on his own. And it's mostly going to require congressional action or support. And he has such narrow majority in.

[Guest Speaker]

The House, we'll see what's possible. But tax credits, for example, all tax.

[Teek Brute]

Credits will have to be either repealed or changed by Congress. Trump cannot do that on his own.

[Guest Speaker]

But what he can do is slow a lot of the spigot of money that's coming out.

[Teek Brute]

So, so, for example, the IRA had $9 billion to go towards state programs for home electrification and energy efficiency.

[Guest Speaker]

Only about 3 billion of that has actually been awarded.

[Teek Brute]

And so it's an open question how.

[Guest Speaker]

I think it's through the DOE.

[Teek Brute]

So how the next DOE administration handles that $6 billion of remaining money, I mean, by statute, I think they're required to use it, but I think it.

[Guest Speaker]

Can be really slowed or it can.

[Teek Brute]

Be reprogrammed, or the awards can just not go through. I think there's a lot of ways where the money, the tap can just be slowed down and just gummed up and the administration has become smarter. So if you look at Trump's first term, they made a lot of legal.

[Guest Speaker]

Blunders in the beginning when they're trying.

[Teek Brute]

To roll back rules because they were new to sort of government bureaucracy and.

[Guest Speaker]

Government rulemaking et CETERA they made missteps.

[Teek Brute]

That they aren't going to make this time. And so I think they will be as efficient as they possibly can in.

[Guest Speaker]

Getting some of their agenda passed.

[Faith]

Well, let's stick with this for one more second.

[Stacey Abrams]

So let's talk about the state dollars that are going out through the Iraq. A lot of those states have Republican senators. So those are states where if the monies suddenly dry up and a neighbor has it in another state, if a cousin can say, I just got this money, but why can't we have it in our red state? Do you think that will have impact on particularly how senators are thinking about how they would vote on these repeals?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah. So there's been 2 to $300 billion.

[Guest Speaker]

From the IRA sort of allocated already.

[Teek Brute]

And 70 to 80% of that has gone to Republican congressional districts. And you've seen, I think it was 18 Republican members of Congress write House Speaker Johnson to say, like, hey, like these are, you know, there's some things here that we definitely want to save. And so he's, you know, Speaker Johnson.

[Guest Speaker]

Has said that he wants to take a scalpel approach rather than a sledgehammer approach to the Iraq. Trump has said he wants to take.

[Teek Brute]

A sledgehammer approach to the ira. So I think you're going to see this continued standoff between the House and Trump and the Senate also, to a certain extent, for how much of this.

[Stacey Abrams]

Actually gets done when climate scientists are thinking about what's happening in a second term. And I know you mentioned 2 degrees Celsius. Can you talk a bit about what.

[Faith]

That means in terms of the emissions.

[Stacey Abrams]

Reduction targets that we set for 2030? And what do climate scientists think happen if we don't make any progress during the next four years?

[Teek Brute]

Well, we're already on track to sort of miss climate targets, so this isn't going to help. And weirdly, if you look back at.

[Guest Speaker]

Trump's first term, there was a decrease in emissions.

[Teek Brute]

And I was reading a little bit about this recently and there were sort of two reasons behind that. One was the global pandemic, right. Like, you know, the economy's and his buddies use of everything fell off a cliff, which was a temporary decrease in.

[Guest Speaker]

Emissions for the country.

[Teek Brute]

Another big one is that electricity demand remained low during Trump's first term, which allowed the sort of natural retirement of sort of coal and some of the power, like fossil fuel used to power power plants. Electricity demand is growing and there hopefully won't be another global pandemic. So emissions during Trump's second term seem very likely to not decrease, if not go up. So we are going to get further away from global and domestic emissions targets. And if we miss them, we're going to keep seeing the sort of natural disasters we've already been seeking in the U.S. right. Milton was a billion dollar storm.

[Guest Speaker]

The number of billion dollar storms or.

[Teek Brute]

The average time between billion dollar storms.

[Guest Speaker]

Have gone from about four, four months to a matter of weeks. And so we're just going to keep.

[Teek Brute]

Like Vermont, which is often on every.

[Guest Speaker]

List of climate havens, right where I.

[Teek Brute]

Am, has seen 100 year floods for the last few years.

[Guest Speaker]

So these are the kind of impacts.

[Teek Brute]

That you're going to start to see more of as, as the sort of needle rises.

[Stacey Abrams]

Offshore drilling has been a tug of war for the last, I would say, 20 years. And each administration comes in trying to undo what the last administration did. On Monday of this week, I talked at the top of the program that Joe Biden actually issued a presidential memoranda using a provision of statute versus an executive order, essentially taking a lot of land and a lot of capacity for offshore oil drilling off of the table. And that decision to use a statute versus using an executive order has some real meaning when it comes to environmental regulations. Can you talk a little bit about what Biden did and why it matters?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah, I mean, he took the entire Eastern seaboard offline for oil drilling. He took parts of the Pacific Northwest, chunks of the Gulf of Mexico. I think it's, it's pretty major. I haven't, it's so new that I.

[Guest Speaker]

Haven'T delved too far into the statute versus executive order.

[Teek Brute]

I do know that I got an alert recently that Trump is obviously trying to already, you know, reverse the ban.

[Guest Speaker]

Ban the ban, if you will.

[Teek Brute]

And so I think you'll see him try to do that. But my guess is it's going to the courts and this is going to be a common theme.

[Guest Speaker]

I think you're going to see a.

[Teek Brute]

Lot of climate rulemaking, a lot of climate legislation, a collage of climate everything.

[Guest Speaker]

End up in the courts over the.

[Teek Brute]

Next few years, which in a lot of ways is, I think, what conservatives want.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Teek Brute]

Because if it ends up in the courts, it at least delays a lot of this stuff. If not, if not plays to their favor with a Supreme Court that is skewed conservative.

[Faith]

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[Stacey Abrams]

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[Faith]

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[Stacey Abrams]

Two of the people that he's appointed.

[Faith]

That would be overseeing these agencies, you've.

[Stacey Abrams]

Got Lee Zeldin, who's Trump's pick to lead the epa, and you've got Chris Wright, who's his energy secretary. What can you tell us about former Representative Zeldin, about Chris Wright and how concerned we should be about the roles that they will play leading these regulatory agencies?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah, I mean, Chris Wright is or was the head of the world's largest fracking company, right?

[Guest Speaker]

Like he has been a climate skeptic, if not outright denier.

[Teek Brute]

So I think with the doe, you're going to see, you know, them working.

[Guest Speaker]

With Interior to sort of encourage oil.

[Teek Brute]

And gas development, encourage drilling, and doing sort of whatever they can to sort.

[Guest Speaker]

Of extend the lifeline of fossil fuels.

[Teek Brute]

Which, to your point earlier, there are some market forces that are naturally happening. And I think you'll see the DOE start to push back against any sort of natural electrification, green transition rules and sort of momentum in any way that they can. I mean, you start like everything, like.

[Guest Speaker]

The TOE controls, such a huge swath, right? They're the ones that control how efficient.

[Teek Brute]

Your dishwasher is, they make Energy Star standards. So the impact can be extremely wide. And I think it sometimes puts not to focus on appliances, but I found that's something that impacts people's lives a lot. And so the Biden administration strengthened appliance.

[Guest Speaker]

Standards, but a lot of those don't.

[Teek Brute]

Come into effect until 2026, 2028. And so those will get rolled back. And then it puts these manufacturers in this place where do they how efficient our appliances.

[Guest Speaker]

And you end up with a lot.

[Teek Brute]

Of the status quo a lot of the time.

[Guest Speaker]

So I think you're going to see an impact there.

[Teek Brute]

And then Lee Zeldin, as the head of the apa, he said the IRA sucks and he's anti regulation America first policymaker. And so I think a lot of the Justice 40 initiatives, the Environmental justice.

[Guest Speaker]

Initiatives that the EPA was part of.

[Teek Brute]

I think you're probably going to see a lot of that dry UP. And Project 2025 has called for an.

[Guest Speaker]

EPA like slashing its budget and slashing its authority.

[Teek Brute]

So I think he's going to be one of those rare federal agency heads.

[Guest Speaker]

That actually allows the curtailing of his own agency.

[Teek Brute]

And I think you saw this a.

[Guest Speaker]

Bit during the first administration where the.

[Teek Brute]

EPA shifted from enforcement to sort of letting companies self police. And I think you'll see a good chunk of that under Zeldin as well. And then some of my colleagues have written about this, but there's sort of.

[Guest Speaker]

Smaller, sneakier stuff that'll probably get undone too.

[Teek Brute]

For example, the EPA has looked into or called for in the midst of.

[Guest Speaker]

Implementing air monitoring around sort of oil refineries and oil infrastructure. And you'll probably see efforts like that.

[Teek Brute]

Paused or rolled back. And so I think you're going to see a lot of these little air.

[Guest Speaker]

Impacts on regulation that'll just creep up everywhere.

[Teek Brute]

And I know that during the first term Trump had issued, I think it was an executive order that called for two regulatory rollbacks for every new regulation put in place. And I think he's vowed to up.

[Guest Speaker]

That to a 10 to 1 ratio.

[Stacey Abrams]

Given that Lee Zeldin has this animus towards clean air, clean water, keeping communities free of chemicals and pesticides, and that this is Project 2025's one of their main core imperatives. How would you tell the average person, especially someone living in a red state, to think about what role and response they could have if they are watching their leaders side with those who are trying to make their lives harder? What would you say they should be thinking about.

[Teek Brute]

Well, so that's the interesting thing, right? So Lee Zeldin or Trump will, won't say they're against clean water or clean air.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Teek Brute]

Trump has called himself the most have.

[Guest Speaker]

The cleanest water and the cleanest air under, under his presidency.

[Teek Brute]

And so I think what they are.

[Guest Speaker]

Is their anti regulation.

[Teek Brute]

They're anti things that make it harder.

[Guest Speaker]

For companies to make money, such as scrubbers on power plants that reduce emissions.

[Teek Brute]

And pollutions in areas. So I think it's going to be.

[Guest Speaker]

Sold as sort of pro business, anti regulatory. This will help your economy.

[Teek Brute]

But it's been proven over and over.

[Guest Speaker]

Again that when those roadblocks and those.

[Teek Brute]

Watchdogs are taken away, you end up.

[Guest Speaker]

With less clean air and less clean water.

[Teek Brute]

And so I think it's going to be, I think there's been movements in.

[Guest Speaker]

The first Trump administration towards sort of like citizen science and monitoring air quality in the private sector or nonprofit sector, monitoring water quality in the nonprofit sector.

[Teek Brute]

So I think those sort of efforts.

[Guest Speaker]

Are going to become more and more important.

[Teek Brute]

So I would just urge people to realize that the impacts are almost certainly going to be less clean water and less clean air and just sort of look at ways that they can monitor.

[Guest Speaker]

That in their own house.

[Teek Brute]

And it sort of happened to me accidentally over the last year or two, we've been trying to decarbonize our home. We had a gas stove and last year my wife was pregnant and we were about to have our first kid. And the summer before that, Vermont got a bunch of wildfire smoke from, I think it was Canada at the time and it blew west.

[Guest Speaker]

And so it was one of these first times. Talk about climate impacts is the first time Vermont had really bad wildfire smoke. So we bought an indoor air purifier.

[Teek Brute]

The light would go from green to red when there was some sort of disturbance or pollutant in the atmosphere. So after, in the fall after the wildfire smoke passed and we were back.

[Guest Speaker]

To sort of normal, we kept using this. And we noticed that every time we.

[Teek Brute]

Turned on our gas stove, the air purifier would kick up and turn sort.

[Guest Speaker]

Of orange or red. And that to us was the impetus.

[Teek Brute]

For going to an induction stove. Gas was obviously part of it. But these sort of environmental, in our.

[Guest Speaker]

House, daily impacts.

[Teek Brute]

Have been driving some.

[Guest Speaker]

Of our decision making.

[Teek Brute]

And so stuff like that, you can.

[Guest Speaker]

Start to potentially, if you live near.

[Teek Brute]

An oil facility, maybe try to get your own air monitor, look into state or local or nonprofit programs that would help fund an air monitor.

[Guest Speaker]

In your community.

[Teek Brute]

And then you don't have to listen to whether it be a Republican or.

[Guest Speaker]

Democrat tell you how clean your air water is.

[Teek Brute]

You can take a look for yourself.

[Stacey Abrams]

I want to talk about that for a second because I think what you've just offered are two very important activation steps. Like you said, we at this moment have to become our own monitors, our own hall monitors. And we live in a moment where there's technology available, but there's also a communication channel, multiple ones, called social media, where you can start to let people know what you're learning and we can crowdsource our own security. And I think the other piece that you laid out earlier is understanding that being anti regulatory actually has meaning. I think one of these opportunities is to think about the language that we're using when we're having these conversations. And I really appreciate the fact that you talk about who is being roadblocked by regulation, but what's on the other side of the roadblock? Who is on the other side? I think there's an opportunity for listeners to think about when you hear about a regulatory change instead of just presuming that there's something that was inherently wrong with the regulation in the first place. Ask questions, why was that regulation in place? Can you talk a little bit for the average person who hasn't gone through a regulatory process? What are some of the key things for them to be listening for or looking to when regulations are being changed and how citizens can engage?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah, just stepping back one second on your sort of citizen action thing, the other big plug I will make is for journalism.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Teek Brute]

And I think a lot of outlets have started to do more sort of community focused journalism. And both journalists and also non profits often build. In the digital age, it's gotten way.

[Guest Speaker]

Easier to build these tools where you.

[Teek Brute]

Can type in your zip code and.

[Guest Speaker]

See what's happening where you are.

[Teek Brute]

So I'm thinking of ProPublica, did a.

[Guest Speaker]

Formaldehyde investigation recently where you can type.

[Teek Brute]

In your zip code and see what.

[Guest Speaker]

The formaldehyde risk might be in your neighborhood.

[Teek Brute]

And Rewiring America has a tool where you can type in your zip code.

[Guest Speaker]

And see what sort of electrification and energy efficient rebates are available to you.

[Teek Brute]

So just wanted to make a plug for those that those tools which I found really useful.

[Faith]

Plug away.

[Teek Brute]

And on the, on the regulatory side, the federal registry is where a lot.

[Guest Speaker]

Of new rules or new proposed rules.

[Teek Brute]

Get placed and then there's public comment periods. That is a place where if there.

[Guest Speaker]

Are issues that you are concerned about.

[Teek Brute]

I would just start typing in things.

[Guest Speaker]

You'Re concerned about and you can start to see what's happening there.

[Teek Brute]

You know, it can be a multiple, you know, many page rulemaking document, but the public comments I found actually distill.

[Guest Speaker]

A lot of the arguments and the.

[Teek Brute]

Part the controversial parts you probably care about really well. I've also found that if you have local politicians, whichever way you lean, left.

[Guest Speaker]

Or right or wherever, they often have constituent email lists.

[Teek Brute]

And so I found that getting on those can be sometimes helpful to sort of figuring out what might be coming down the pipeline. Or if there's a local nonprofit you like that follows housing, right, they might.

[Guest Speaker]

Send out something to their email list.

[Teek Brute]

About hey, here's a new state or federal rule that you need to care about or should look at at least. And they usually do a pretty good job at flagging some of those things.

[Faith]

Assembly Required is brought to you by Oneskin. As we kick off the new year, I wanted to share a little secret. I don't do big resolutions. Instead, I review my past year and think about what I want to know or have accomplished.

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[Stacey Abrams]

I want to talk about someone who's made getting good information harder in recent years, and that's Elon Musk. This is someone who made his name by leveraging federal funds to actually bolster his business interest in electric vehicles. And now he's working for climate denier who wants to reverse the intention. So how do you square who Elon Musk was and who he is? And I don't want you to get into the psychology, but I would love your thinking about how the intersection of Musk and Tesla and just his business interest with Doge and also how they will take on fossil fuels in this new administration given the real cost to consumers for supporting fossil fuel industry.

[Teek Brute]

So I think it boils down to self interest or sort of business interest. As you mentioned early in Tesla's existence, sort of the federal subsidies, I think it was in the hundreds of millions of dollars for some of the R and D stuff and then probably more than that in sort of tax credits for their Teslas earlier on because for those who may not have following closely.

[Guest Speaker]

Tesla hit sort of production cap limits.

[Teek Brute]

And so was ineligible for a while for some of EV tax credits. So early on those were very important to Tesla. But now Tesla isn't as reliant on federal tax credits as other companies like GE or Stellantis or those other American car companies. So now he's even said this, the EV tractors will hurt those companies way more than they'll hurt Tesla. So I think that sort of squares.

[Guest Speaker]

That circle for me at least is.

[Teek Brute]

He doesn't stand to lose nearly as much from getting rid of the EV tax credits as other companies do. As for whether they'll take on fossil fuels, I actually wrote about this the other day on a suggestion from my editor because this idea that they want to cut $2 trillion or roughly a third out of the federal budget. You're going to need a pretty big.

[Guest Speaker]

Axe to do that.

[Teek Brute]

And there are a lot of subsidies.

[Guest Speaker]

For fossil fuels in the range of.

[Teek Brute]

Billions and then even more for stuff like ethanol based fuels, corn based ethanol. So I think it'll be a real one. Person I talked to called it a.

[Guest Speaker]

Truth test or like a litmus test.

[Teek Brute]

For how committed they are to this.

[Guest Speaker]

Idea of just slashing government subsidies and support writ large.

[Teek Brute]

But almost no one I talked to expected them to be to actually go after fossil fuels. Right.

[Guest Speaker]

In theory, it's possible. But we don't know anything really about Doge yet. Right.

[Teek Brute]

We don't know whether it's going to.

[Guest Speaker]

Operate inside or outside the government or.

[Teek Brute]

Where it's going to sit, or how are Elon and Ramaswamy going to go.

[Guest Speaker]

Toe to toe with cabinet secretaries?

[Teek Brute]

Are they going to get more access to Trump?

[Guest Speaker]

I think there's so many questions, but.

[Teek Brute]

In theory, if they're slashing sort of subsidies, there's a lot that could be slashed that also apply to fossil fuels.

[Guest Speaker]

But by and large, the expectation is.

[Teek Brute]

That it's going to hurt climate policy and sort of the green transition as they start to cut government supports.

[Stacey Abrams]

You've been writing and thinking a lot about market forces, and Elon Musk and his new coterie represent a fairly significant part of that. But how do you think about how market forces will play into addressing climate change in this administration? And can you explain your thinking and why you think this is an angle that we need to focus on?

[Teek Brute]

Two words that come to the first two words that come to my mind are heat pumps.

[Guest Speaker]

Or maybe it's one word, but I think it's two. Heat pumps.

[Teek Brute]

Are, I think, a perfect example of how market forces are really playing out here. The industry is now selling more electric heat pumps than they are gas boilers. And this was even before this trend started, before the IRA people are realizing.

[Guest Speaker]

That they can heat and cool their.

[Teek Brute]

Homes at the same time often, especially if you don't live in extreme climates for less money with less breakdown. So I think that is a prime example of product and market that has just gone somewhat independently of government regulation.

[Guest Speaker]

And started to take over. I think you've seen the costs of renewable energy, so solar and wind, just.

[Teek Brute]

Especially at utility scale, but also somewhat at the household scale, just plummet. And that has had nothing to do or not, nothing. But that's also been happening independent of.

[Guest Speaker]

US Domestic climate policy.

[Teek Brute]

I think the one wrench that Trump.

[Guest Speaker]

Has threatened and almost certainly will throw into market forces is tariffs.

[Teek Brute]

This is just a big lever that.

[Guest Speaker]

He has at his disposal that he said he will already use.

[Teek Brute]

And I think there was news the.

[Guest Speaker]

Other day that he's now considering more universal tariffs rather than target of tariffs, which makes it harder to circumvent by.

[Teek Brute]

Going and importing through a different country. So I think that is the biggest way in which Trump can probably disrupt.

[Guest Speaker]

The market forces behind a green transition.

[Teek Brute]

And also I think there's some of this rebate money could change people's calculus on whether a heat pump or something makes sense. But often from people I've talked to.

[Guest Speaker]

And even myself, they're on par regardless of subsidies. And subsidies just help.

[Teek Brute]

And I think you're going to see.

[Guest Speaker]

Both tariffs and the change in rebates.

[Teek Brute]

Who that's really going to impact is lower income consumers. And Last year the IRS released data that there were 8 billion or so dollars of tax credits claimed by people, like energy efficiency tax credits claimed by people. And the majority of those fell or the bulk of those fell in the.

[Guest Speaker]

100 to $200,000 income range.

[Teek Brute]

So, so already you're seeing that the green transition is something that upper middle class is gravitating towards. And I think tariffs and rolling back rebates will only accelerate that and make it less accessible for lower income individuals. But I do think a lot of this is headed down a path anyway. The federal government has no has very little say over whether somebody, a business.

[Guest Speaker]

Or your home decides to install electric vehicle charger. And that sort of stuff will continue to happen as people need them and businesses decide that they're worth the investment.

[Faith]

So I'm going to give you a.

[Stacey Abrams]

Really simple, easy, low stakes question to take us out of here. One of the side effects we know of the climate change conversation is, is what's described as climate despair. When it all just feels too overwhelming and too hopeless, we give in and potentially give up. So here on Assembly Required, what we try to provide are antidotes to that despair. We try to invite guests on who help us wrap our heads around complicated topics like you have and who help us brainstorm on ways to take action. And you have given us a great deal of, I think, incredibly useful information. But when you are doing this work day after day, when you are trying to make certain that that monitor in your home doesn't tell you that the appliances in your home are going to cause you harm, when you're reporting and you're writing about so many topics that can be overwhelming. How do you keep yourself from just giving up?

[Teek Brute]

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I.

[Guest Speaker]

So I generally cover climate change nationally and internationally.

[Teek Brute]

So I found actually some solace in sinking a lot of effort into my own home.

[Guest Speaker]

I just spent hours and hours thinking about how I could do this in my own life, and I found it weirdly comforting.

[Teek Brute]

I didn't have to think about the emissions going over China and Europe. I could just think about my house.

[Guest Speaker]

For a little bit.

[Teek Brute]

And I find that really enjoyable. And I really liked. I don't know if I'm just a nerd, but I really liked talking to my public utility about what programs they had to help me reduce energy. And there's so many. Cool.

[Guest Speaker]

There's this utility in California that started.

[Teek Brute]

To just offer people heat pumps instead of replacing the natural gas pipeline. Especially in rural communities where they only have three houses at the end. And those are programs that if you just ask, you'll find out about and.

[Guest Speaker]

You might actually be eligible for. There's just so much out there that.

[Teek Brute]

I didn't know about when I started doing this. So I found focusing on the local and even hyperlocal level has really been quite enjoyable.

[Guest Speaker]

And a lot of the local journalism right now on environmental reporting is really fascinating. In Georgia, a lot of the work.

[Teek Brute]

That was done on the nuclear plant.

[Guest Speaker]

That'S opening there, I think is something.

[Teek Brute]

That I think people can stay engaged in. And it doesn't necessarily feel like big.

[Guest Speaker]

Climate policy that you're engaging in. It's a local issue that could affect.

[Teek Brute]

Your community, but does have those implications so broadly. I would say just think about touch points in your daily life as you.

[Guest Speaker]

Walk around, like whether it's your car.

[Teek Brute]

Or the fossil fuel that goes into making the rubber, the plastic in your cookware. I think there's just so many touch points and find out what's important to you, to kids.

[Guest Speaker]

Right. I've heard so many people say that they started to care about climate change.

[Teek Brute]

Because their kids started talking about it after learning about greenhouse gas emissions in school or talking to their friends about it.

[Guest Speaker]

For me, sports is often like, I.

[Teek Brute]

Think a lot about, like down the road for me. I have a semi pro soccer team where climate justice is their mission.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Teek Brute]

So, like, I often find weird ways into it. Electrifying muscle cars I heard someone got into as a way of, like, as a touch point for this. So, you know, almost anything can potentially do it.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you so much for being on assembly required.

[Teek Brute]

Thanks so much for having me. This was great.

[Faith]

Each week we want to leave the audience with a new way to act against what can feel inevitable.

[Stacey Abrams]

An opportunity to make a difference, a way to get involved or just get started on working out a solution. We call the segment our Toolkit at Assembly required. We encourage the audience to be curious, solve problems, and do good. So let's start with being curious.

[Faith]

Read more of Tieck and his colleagues.

[Stacey Abrams]

Excellent climate change reporting on Grist.org you can also find valuable information on InsideClimateNews.org, which produces nonpartisan environmental journalism. And as we talked about, you can take matters into your own hands. Get a Monitor Sign up for a newsletter do the work of telling your community what you know and what you're learning. Don't wait for the government to do its job when you can help move it along. Now, in addition to what Tic and I discussed, we know that for solving problems and doing good, it's not enough to just want to do it. We need to think about how we get it done. And one of the ways we're approaching that are through our listener questions. Before the holidays, I offered some recommendations for our first two steps.

[Faith]

1. Identifying an issue that matters to you.

[Stacey Abrams]

The most and being as local as you can about how you address it. 2.

[Faith]

I encourage you to figure out who.

[Stacey Abrams]

Is in charge and who can make the change. You want to see what we refer to in organizing as power mapping. For Step three, I want to turn.

[Faith]

To a question from listener Tyler Zog.

[Stacey Abrams]

Tyler writes Stacy, I'm about to graduate.

[Faith]

With a bachelor's in statistics in the spring.

[Stacey Abrams]

I've also recently decided I want my.

[Faith]

Career to be something that improves the.

[Stacey Abrams]

World in some way and doesn't just improve shareholder value. I was hoping for a Harris victory for many reasons, but a big part.

[Faith]

Is because I was hoping to get.

[Stacey Abrams]

A research job in the EPA or.

[Faith]

CDC or one of the Many organizations.

[Stacey Abrams]

Project 2025 seeks to remove with a Trump victory. Is it worth seeking a government job this Do I look at nonprofits or other research focused organizations, or are they at the same risk with likely removal of government funds? In short, how can we help continue vital research into health, the environment, civil rights issues, et cetera, when we face an administration that seems to be outright.

[Faith]

Hostile to said research?

[Stacey Abrams]

I'd appreciate your advice. Well, first of all, congratulations, Tyler, and I want to use your question because I want to talk about Step three in organizing, in advocacy, and in just responding to what's coming. Step three is that once we know what we're concerned about and we know who's responsible. It's time to become our own resident experts. This conversation today with Teek was a great example of the ways we can do that.

[Faith]

But it's not just enough for us.

[Stacey Abrams]

To do it on our own, in our homes, in our communities. This is where people like Tyler come in.

[Faith]

Because we need experts in the field.

[Stacey Abrams]

And in positions of power. So I'll say this, Tyler. While it is difficult to work for an administration whose values don't align with yours, we have to remember that the government works for the people, not the politicians.

[Faith]

Most government jobs are actually apolitical. I had a sister who worked for.

[Stacey Abrams]

The CDC for years, and I can tell you that no matter who she worked for, the science didn't change.

[Faith]

And what that means is that you.

[Stacey Abrams]

Don'T have to excel at politics to do your job.

[Faith]

More importantly, you have to focus on the substance of your work.

[Stacey Abrams]

That's where we need you, and that's what you studied.

[Faith]

For now more than ever, we need.

[Stacey Abrams]

Good people in government jobs who are willing to do the research the right way. Yes, there will be constraints on how you can do your work, but the fundamentals remain.

[Faith]

We need folks like you to help.

[Stacey Abrams]

Folks like us learn about the topics and potential solutions for those who are.

[Faith]

Trying to use this research. I want you to identify who studies.

[Stacey Abrams]

What you care about, or who has written a paper or blog on the topic as Teek described.

[Faith]

Look for newsletters that focus on that.

[Stacey Abrams]

Area of interest and give you a summary once a week about what's going on. Even better, reach out to them. The worst case scenario is that the person you reach out to ignores you and you move on. But if not, if they do come back, you now have a firsthand resource to help deepen your understanding of the topic. So I would invite this resource to join you in a zoom meeting with your group. This can be a very effective way for an introvert, for example, to convene people without having to actually talk. So you do the work of setting up the learning opportunity and you let.

[Faith]

Someone else do the talking. We know that when we learn more.

[Stacey Abrams]

We are better equipped to do more. And folks like Tyler can help us make that happen. But everyone listening to the show has.

[Faith]

The ability to become a resident expert.

[Stacey Abrams]

On something that matters to you. So to recap, step one, know your target. Step two, know who's in charge. And step three, know who knows more than you and learn from them. No matter what our target is, we.

[Faith]

Need to be prepared.

[Stacey Abrams]

So again, over the next few episodes, we'll continue our organizing and insistence training because once we get started, we're going to get a lot of good done. If you want to tell us what you've learned and solved, send us an [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail. Your questions and comments might be featured on the pod. Our number is 213-293-9509. Well, that wraps up this episode of.

[Faith]

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams.

[Stacey Abrams]

I'll meet you here next week.

[Faith]

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is a crooked media production. Our lead show producer is Ilona Minkowski and our associate producer is Paulina Velasco.

[Stacey Abrams]

Kiril Palaviv is our video producer.

[Faith]

This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Our theme song is by Vasilius Fotopoulos.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you to Matt De Groat, Kyle.

[Faith]

Seglin, Tyler Boozer and Samantha Slosberg for production support.

[Stacey Abrams]

Our executive producers are Katie Long, Madeline Herringer and me, Stacey Abra.

[Carnival Representative]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Faith]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[H]

And I'm Jason Mantzoukas.

[Carnival Representative]

And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[H]

Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about.

[Faith]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Carnival Representative]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all.

[H]

You can find. How did this get Made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot.