How We Can Take Democracy Back with Ballot Initiatives

Summary

Summary of “How We Can Take Democracy Back with Ballot Initiatives”

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams
Episode: How We Can Take Democracy Back with Ballot Initiatives
Host: Stacey Abrams
Guest: Rachel Sweet, Campaign Manager for Missourians for Constitutional Freedom
Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Introduction

In the episode titled "How We Can Take Democracy Back with Ballot Initiatives," Stacey Abrams delves into the pivotal role ballot initiatives play in restoring and strengthening democracy at the state level. Joined by Rachel Sweet, a seasoned campaign manager with extensive experience in leading successful ballot initiative campaigns in states like Missouri, Kentucky, Kansas, and Ohio, the discussion centers on leveraging direct democracy to enact progressive policies despite federal and legislative setbacks.

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Understanding Ballot Initiatives

Stacey Abrams opens the conversation by highlighting the growing sense of societal frustration and the temptation to withdraw from the political process. She emphasizes that rather than retreating, citizens must engage proactively to effect change. Abrams introduces Rachel Sweet, who elucidates the concept of ballot initiatives as a form of direct democracy that empowers voters to directly influence state laws without solely relying on elected officials.

Notable Quote:

“Ballot initiatives are policy proposals that a group of citizens draft themselves. They gather signatures for, and they put the question on the ballot before all voters.”
— Rachel Sweet [05:53]

Rachel Sweet explains that ballot initiatives vary by state but universally serve as a tool for citizens to enact policies when legislative bodies are unresponsive. She underscores the importance of using every available tool to effect change, especially in the face of a federal government that might be hindering progressive advancements.

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Success Stories and Strategies

Rachel Sweet shares insights from the successful no campaign in Kansas, where her team managed to secure a significant turnout and defeat anti-abortion measures. She attributes this success to meticulous state-based organizing and a dual strategy that involved both reaching out to more conservative and independent voters and mobilizing the existing base of pro-choice supporters.

Notable Quote:

“We saw turnout go from what we expected to be around, you know, 27% to almost 50% of Kansas voters showing up in an August election, in a midterm year.”
— Rachel Sweet [16:00]

Sweet emphasizes the importance of building strong, state-focused coalitions that invest time and resources into educating voters and mobilizing volunteers well before elections. She explains that sustained, grassroots efforts are crucial for the success of ballot initiatives, as they ensure that voters are informed and motivated to participate.

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Messaging and Voter Engagement

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around effective messaging strategies. Rachel Sweet highlights the need to connect with voters on shared values rather than framing the debate through strict party lines. By focusing on common ground—such as the belief that personal medical decisions should remain private—campaigns can resonate with a broader audience.

Notable Quote:

“We have a lot more in common than we do different.”
— Rachel Sweet [17:04]

Sweet elaborates on the use of first-person storytelling and testimonials to humanize the issues at stake. This approach not only educates voters about the real-life impacts of policies but also fosters empathy and understanding across diverse political spectra.

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Challenges and Defenses of Ballot Initiatives

The episode addresses the increasing challenges ballot initiatives face, such as legislative attempts to raise signature thresholds and restrict access. Rachel Sweet discusses the recent efforts in states like Ohio and Florida to make it more difficult to pass ballot measures by increasing the required majority from 50% to 60%.

Notable Quote:

“We need to do everything that we can to fight for and defend and protect this tool.”
— Rachel Sweet [39:39]

Sweet warns that such legislative maneuvers pose significant threats to the efficacy of ballot initiatives as a democratic tool. She advocates for broad coalitions that can defend the initiative process, emphasizing that ballot measures are crucial not only for progressive change but also as a mechanism for all citizens to express their will directly.

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Building Coalitions Beyond Ballot Initiatives

Expanding the conversation beyond ballot initiatives, Rachel Sweet advises that communities without direct democracy tools can still engage effectively in the legislative process. She encourages individuals to participate in local governance by attending neighborhood association meetings, school board meetings, and other community forums to influence decisions from the ground up.

Notable Quote:

“The closer we can get to the people in our communities, the more that we can get to know our neighbors, the more that we can identify these issues and come up with solutions that do not involve people that are in power, the better off we're going to be.”
— Rachel Sweet [41:50]

Sweet underscores the importance of grassroots organizing and community-driven solutions as complementary strategies to ballot initiatives, promoting a multifaceted approach to democratic engagement.

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Toolkit for Listeners

In the concluding segment, Stacey Abrams provides actionable steps for listeners inspired to engage in democratic processes:

1. Be Curious: Understand where your state stands on ballot initiatives and explore resources like the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center (@ballot.org) to learn more.
2. Solve Problems: Engage in local legislative processes, support community-driven solutions, and participate in local governance even if your state lacks direct democracy tools.
3. Do Good: Utilize your strengths to contribute positively to your community, whether through organizing, education, or supporting local initiatives.

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Listener Q&A

Abrams addresses listener questions, including concerns about the potential weakening of federal protections like the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). She reassures that state-level actions can still provide robust protections and emphasizes the importance of local advocacy and coalition-building to safeguard rights.

Notable Quote:

“We know that there were citizen led campaigns for progressive issues that won in November. And those wins can provide a pathway to not only insistence, but success.”
— Stacey Abrams [30:37]

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a strong affirmation of the power of collective action and direct democracy. Stacey Abrams and Rachel Sweet reiterate that while the challenges are significant, the tools and strategies discussed offer viable paths to reclaiming and strengthening democratic governance at the state level. Listeners are encouraged to actively participate in their communities and utilize every available tool to drive meaningful change.

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Key Takeaways:

• Ballot initiatives are vital tools for direct democracy, allowing citizens to enact policies without solely relying on elected officials.
• Successful campaigns require sustained, grassroots organizing, strategic messaging, and broad coalition-building.
• Despite legislative challenges, defending and utilizing ballot initiatives can empower communities and strengthen democracy.
• Even in states without direct democracy tools, local engagement and community-driven solutions are essential for political change.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Ballot Initiative Strategy Center: ballot.org
• Indivisible: indivisible.org

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the insightful discussion between Stacey Abrams and Rachel Sweet, offering listeners a roadmap to engage in and influence democratic processes through ballot initiatives and beyond.

Transcript

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[Stacey Abrams]

Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I'm your host, Stacey Abrams. Now, I'm glad you're here. I really am. We all know folks who have decided to take a break from the news and from the world. Those who have opted for what is called called internal exile. You know, shutting out the constant stream of oh my God, that thing that happens with every new appointment or all caps pronouncements from the incoming administration. I know what it feels like to want to hide, to want to shut out the world and say I will show up when things are fixed. The problem is we've got to be the ones to fix them. I grew up in the Deep south, as I've mentioned before, and I decided to be a Democratic politician in Georgia. I did so at a time when exile made a lot of sense, where just saying never mind seemed to be the only answer. Then I realized that what they wanted was for me to shut down. They wanted me to shut up, to tune out, to turn off and to let them do what they wanted. And we feel a deep, visceral need to do that now because it can be overwhelming to confront what is to come. We all listen to the pronouncements from Project 2025, from mass deportations to cutting the Education Department to the prospect of a federal abortion ban. We know that DEI is about to be struck down and that the protections for people of color, for women, for children, that the ADA might be under attack and we don't know how to make sense of it. But the reality is we know how to do it. We've done it before. We want to distance ourselves, but we know we've got to show up anyway because the very people that they want to attack, if it's not us, it's someone we know, someone we love, someone we need. Our job is not to simply survive the next few years. Our job is to win. But winning is going to take time. And I understand, but vehemently disagree that Trump and his ilk are aberrations. We would love to think that if we waited them out, things would get better, but they're just one possible future. But they are the absolute future. If we don't engage now, if we don't respond now, if we don't act now, our actions may be small, the reactions may be big, and the change may be incremental, but we can still make progress. For example, I know the federal government holds tremendous power, and it feels like it's the only power, but state and local government will be critical tools in the next few years. Republicans understood this 40 years ago, and at one point, so did we. We understood that state and local government gave us the ability to fix some of the things that were being broken and to test out what could make us better and stronger. So one of the ways we will insist on the type of leadership we deserve is by harnessing the role that our states can play. We've already seen evidence of how this might play out. One of our listeners wrote in to identify that as an LGBTQIA person. They've seen businesses and healthcare providers in their state assuring them of their support for the community. But they also know they're likely targets of the incoming administration, and so they are already thinking about what protections their state can offer. As I mentioned, I got my start in state and local governments, and I'll be coming back to this topic in various forms over and over again, because it's one of our weapons. We can either turn away or we can turn to what we know we have. Some people like righteous indignation. I prefer guerrilla warfare. So, for example, we've discussed the power of the states in an episode a few weeks ago with historian Heather Cox Richardson, which if you haven't listened yet, please do so. Go ahead. We'll wait. Heather talked about how states rights are coming back to the fore, but not entirely in the Jim Crow version, we recall. Instead, this time around, states can assert the rights of the vulnerable and protect the targeted through lawsuits filed by state attorneys general or by state governments passing laws to protect communities. But that requires waiting for politicians to get it done. Another method of insistence is through ballot initiatives, a way that voters can directly impact the laws in their state. In fact, we saw a lot of ballot measures in this election cycle.

[Rachel Sweet]

Question 5 would get rid of sales tax on child and adult diapers. Nevada voted yes on this ballot measure.

[AT&T Mobile]

And now to Initiative 436, which requires Nebraska workplaces to require paid Sick leave. Here's a look at the results. The for vote is 75%. The against vote is 25.

[Rachel Sweet]

If voters pass Prop 3 this year.

[Stacey Abrams]

The language will be repealed and replaced with the right to marry is a fundamental right.

[Rachel Sweet]

No mention of gender at all.

[Stacey Abrams]

Ballot initiatives are policy proposals that a group of citizens draft themselves. They gather signatures for, and they put the question on the ballot before all voters. Although the small details vary from state to state and not all states allow it. We have to use every tool we can, wherever we can, and ballot initiatives are direct democracy in action. I believe in direct democracy. I believe in using what we have to do, what we need until we get what we want. And so, despite Democrats losing the White House and Congress, we know that there were citizen led campaigns for progressive issues that won in November. And those wins can provide a pathway to not only insistence, but success. In states as varied as Missouri, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada and six other states this year, we saw ballot initiatives work. Voters use those ballot measures to change their state laws and to make things better, including on issues like paid leave and abortion rights.

[Rachel Sweet]

When folks are voting for whether it's someone to be the next President of the United States or their representative in the U.S. senate, they are bringing a lot with them into the ballot box. They are thinking about a variety of issues. And I think what so great about these ballot measure campaigns is we can just focus on how do voters feel about abortion rights and about the state of access where they live.

[Stacey Abrams]

That voice you heard was Rachel Sweet. She was the campaign manager for Missourians for Constitutional Freedom, the coalition that passed abortion rights in her home state of Missouri. And she was a key player in ballot initiative campaigns in Kansas, Kentucky and Ohio. Not exactly bastions of progressive policy. Those ballot initiatives defended or established abortion rights. And today Rachel Sweet joins me on Assembly Required. Well, Rachel, I am excited to have you on the podcast in part because we're both from mi. States that make really interesting choices. Are you originally from Missouri?

[Rachel Sweet]

I am not. I'm originally from Ohio, but I have lived in Missouri for the past 20 years. So I am a Missourian at this point.

[Stacey Abrams]

Understood. I was born in Wisconsin but grew up in Mississippi and then came of age in Georgia. But I claim Mississippi because once you've been there, that's where you are, man. Well, I'm just delighted to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

[Rachel Sweet]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Stacey Abrams]

So you are a self described polite Midwesterner and you know you're from Missouri, from Ohio. You have no escape. So you ran your most recent abortion rights campaign in Missouri. How is this polite Midwesterner part of you? How is it one of your strengths in what you do?

[Rachel Sweet]

Oh, I think that's such a great question. Let me say first, maybe I consider being a polite Midwesterner an aspiration. Right. Part of our Midwest values. Right. We want to. We want to treat one another with respect and we want to take care of folks in our community. But that politeness, I think, can sometimes lead to us talking around and stepping around complicated but important issues like abortion rights and access. And I believe, as somebody who has, I say, only worked in hard places. Right. I don't have a lot of personal interest in working on politics in New York or California, even though those are just as important as any other state in the country. But I personally enjoy doing the work in places where it can be more challenging, because places like Missouri, places like Mississippi are often the places that are forgotten as we have these conversations about how do we make policy change that will make this country better? So I will keep aspiring to be a polite Midwesterner as long as it doesn't get in the way of doing the organizing that we need to do to move us forward.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, as a polite Southerner, I also share your aspiration towards those. So my parents are from Mississippi, and I think it was 2012 or 2014, Mississippi had a constitutional amendment to ban abortion. My parents are Methodist ministers. They're black Methodist ministers. And the presumption, including for me, was that my parents were going to vote for that constitutional amendment. But I called them and I said, mom, Dad, I want to talk to you about this constitutional amendment. I'm in Georgia, but I know it's coming up. What do you think about it? And my parents were like, oh, we're going to vote against it. And we've been talking about it, and it was a surprise to me, I mean, I'm their child, that they were so adamant in opposition. And I think what you said about these being hard places, part of it is that we are raised to believe that we're not supposed to change our minds. Can you talk a little bit about how you confront that conversation internally before you externalize it?

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was fortunate to grow up with, I would say, a pretty diverse community around me. I grew up in a very sort of Rust Belt, working class town in Ohio, pretty diverse racially in terms of income. So I think I was really fortunate to grow up among people with different perspectives on issues. My immediate family, though, I would Say, has always been pretty progressive, pretty supportive. So for me, I think as we talk about, you know, what is the sort of internal work that one needs to do to do advocacy, to do organizing, for me, I think it was really more about not necessarily dialing back a commitment to justice or to doing the right thing or to progressive policy, but having to grow a little bit and figuring out how to talk to people who disagree with me because I did benefit from having parents and family. That in many ways reinforced what I believe. It gave me the value system that has led me to do the work that I do. But one of my first exercises in that was really when I used to lobby for reproductive rights in the Kansas Capitol. And let me tell you, in the Kansas Capitol, you cannot either stop a bad bill or get anything passed without talking to a lot of Republicans. And it was so interesting because you would, you know, meet these people. They weren't the most vocal opponents of anti abortion laws, but they'd always kind of vote with their party. And when you sit down and have conversations with some of these folks who have never taken a vote in support of abortion rights or access, they will tell you things that you would just be completely surprised by. They would tell you, oh, you know, my wife had an abortion, or, you know, my niece had to go to X state to get care that she needed. And so it's really interesting when you actually can, we can pull away some of that partisan facade and those preconceptions and attitudes and just have conversations with people.

[Stacey Abrams]

You mentioned the fact that you did this work in Kansas. In fact, you led the no campaign. It was similar to what Mississippi, the issue I referenced with my parents. It was a constitutional amendment that was going to enshrine anti abortion law. And you led a campaign to get people to say no. Talk about why that was so important to you and what you think made the difference. Because it wasn't just talking to legislators who you could pigeonhole or buttonhole in a Capitol. You had to get an entire state to pay attention. How'd you think about it?

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah. So I think the thing that makes these campaigns so successful is that the foundation for these abortion rights ballot measures is really state based coalitions and state based organizing. I think with the Kansas campaign in particular. The Dobbs decision happened in June of 2022, and our amendment was going to be on the ballot six weeks later. So suddenly there was this huge increase in national attention and fundraising, and it was kind of like all eyes were on the little red state of Kansas. But what I think folks didn't see is that the group that really moved that campaign forward had been working on it since 2019. When that state supreme court decision that found the right to abortion in the Kansas constitution first came down. Right. In 2020, legislators tried to put the same measure on the ballot that they successfully placed on the ballot in 2022. There was a huge lobbying effort to keep it off the ballot. And I think, you know, when these campaigns get talked about in sort of the mainstream, you know, political pundit type universe, we unfortunately kind of forget that these are not things that just happen overnight. Right. This is the work of state based organizers that are doing this kind of thing all the time, that are out there talking to voters about abortion, that are out there organizing their communities around how do we, how do we protect access, how do we maintain access to care? And I think that is really what sort of sets these efforts apart from, you know, campaigns that candidates might run. And I think in Kansas in particular, we had a very different electorate that showed up on election day than what we anticipated. I think the anti abortion politicians in Kansas thought, oh, we can put this on a primary election ballot where most people don't show up. And the folks that will have the biggest incentive to show up are our voters. Right? That's, that's their thought as going into this. But what we saw is that by sort of having this two pronged strategy, if we're going to, we are going to talk to these more conservative and independent voters and try to reach them on shared values, right? Who should be making this decision? Should it be the government or should it be women and their families? And then we are going to work on mobilizing and motivating our base of support who always supports abortion rights. And in, sometimes in places like Kansas is a little quieter than we'd like. And by doing those two things successfully, we saw, you know, not just a victory, but we saw turnout go from what we expected to be around, you know, 27% to almost 50% of Kansas voters showing up in an August election, in a midterm year. So it's, I think we all just have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. And I think that, you know, as we're even looking back at the results of this most recent election across the board, there always seems to be these debates about, you know, do we need to talk more to voters in the middle, do we need to be more progressive so that we're motivating our base? And I think it's really A false choice. You know what? I think the way that we succeed and move forward is by finding ways to connect with voters across the political spectrum on our shared values, because we have a lot more in common than we do different.

[Stacey Abrams]

I'm going to have you say that again. I think you said something perfect. You think it's a. What's that phrase you used? I think you said false choice.

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah, it's a false. I do. I think it is a false choice.

[Stacey Abrams]

And the reason I want to emphasize that, I want to unpack a few things that you mentioned. One is that you talk about a tool which is the ballot measure, and the second is the tactic which is using shared values and talking to everyone and letting people decide they don't want to hear you versus deciding for them because of what you think they are, who you think they are. So let's start with the shared values piece. How do you decide and how should coalitions decide when shared values are a part of their narrative? Should they change what they want to do based on this idea of shared values, or should they try to convince people that those values are shared?

[Rachel Sweet]

That's a really good question. So I think there is definitely always this push and pull. And I appreciate what you said about ballot measures being a tool, because that is fundamentally what they are. They are not a panacea for all of the problems that a less, they are a way to enact policies that those in power will not. It is a way to make change for people when the people that we have elected to represent us won't do the hard things and make the changes that need to be made. So often when you're thinking about, you know, how do we. How do we talk to voters, how what is the messaging for a campaign? I think there's always, you know, there's tension between what does. What do we need to do to sort of move the movement forward and what do we need to do to get a policy passed that will create material change in people's lives. And so ballot measures, I think, are a really good tool for the former, for really, you know, moving forward policy that makes a difference to people. And so one of the ways that we approach this in campaigns is, of course, like any campaign, we do a lot of research, we do a lot of polling, But I think what we've seen across the board is that, one, voters do not want politicians involved in their personal medical decisions. And that is something that voters across the spectrum really agree on. And I think the other thing that we do really well in these campaigns is we are able to use testimonials and first person storytelling to drive home the impacts of these abortion bans. And I want to give a big shout out to Abortion Action Missouri, who's one of our coalition partners in Missouri. And they do year round organizing work and recruitment and working with folks who have been impacted by the state's ban so that they can get the skills and tools necessary to go advocate for policy change. So when you're starting a campaign like this, you're never really starting from scratch. You are drawing on the experience and the people power and the resources of all of these groups and all these individuals that are living in this state and doing this year round advocacy. In Missouri, for example, this coalition that became The yes on 3 campaign started working on this back in 2019, trying to come up with, okay, what is the policy? What does the language need to say in a ballot measure? What are the things that we need to make sure are in this so that when we go do all the hard work of getting the signatures to put it on the ballot and then talking to voters, we have an actual policy that makes material change in people's lives. Then we can figure out how do we message this, how do we connect with the Republican and independent voters that we know we're going to need to win the day? Because in a state like Missouri, you just don't win with registered Democrats alone. That's. That is not how we do things in Missouri. It is not possible at this point in time. So I think, yeah, policy has always got to be front and center and then we can figure out, hey, what are the values and what is the messaging that we use to communicate this. And again, I think one of the reasons that ballot measures are, I think, an effective tool for movement building, but are not a panacea is that they're just inevitably time constrained. Right. You know, we've got this many months and this many weeks to collect signatures. We've got this many months and this many weeks to talk to voters, and election day waits for no one. So as we think forward to like, how do we want to build a more durable collision to protect X issue, whether that is abortion rights, whether that is, you know, humane immigration policy, whether that is raising the minimum wage, that is work that can start now as we think towards the future and what are the kind of changes we want to see either in states or at the federal level. But there again are a lot of those conversations that just precede any things that people see on the news or any ads that you see if you're in a state like Missouri that just had a big expensive abortion ballot measure campaign.

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[Stacey Abrams]

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[Stacey Abrams]

Well, the messaging in these campaigns is very important and you allude to it a bit. You know, in order to have these conversations with voters across the spectrum, you've got to start early, which you've described. You've got to go deep, which is part of organizing. But you also have to speak their language. And that can be difficult when you're trying to have the same conversation with very different listeners. So tell us a little bit about your messaging and whether or not you feel like it, you know, sidestepped party politics successfully, or if it's just a function of ballot measures to create the space where you get to have the same conversation with everyone.

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a both. And so I think there is something inherent about ballot measures that makes people sort of take down their partisan balls a little bit. Of course, you know, when people go into the ballot box, they are bringing a lot of baggage with them. They are bringing a lot of life experience. They are bringing a lot with them when they make their decision about who am I going to vote for for the president or to represent me in the U.S. senate. But when you give people the opportunity to vote on an issue, I think it does allow folks to sort of more reflect on their own values and experiences and sort of put that partisanship aside. When you are voting on a constitutional amendment, when you're voting on a ballot measure, you don't need to vote the way that your party wants you to vote. You can vote your conscience and you can vote the way that your values tell you to vote, regardless, because there is no R or D next to that ballot measure. It is nonpartisan. But again, I do think that there is. Besides the fact that there is something, I think that's sort of inherent in ballot measures, I think that there is a lot of work that these campaigns and these coalitions do to make sure that we are making those connections with voters. So as far as, like, messaging for the yes on 3 campaign, in Missouri, we focused really on two things. We focused on the devastating consequences of our state's abortion ban. And that is something that, for a lot of Missourians, was top of mind. Missouri was one of the first states to ban abortion after the Dobbs decision came in 2022. But even before that, politicians in Missouri had passed a lot of laws targeting abortion providers that had pushed care out of reach for everyone in the state. Right. You know, the laws that we think of regulating the sizes of clinic hallways or, you know, requiring medically unnecessary exams before medication, abortion is administered, all sorts of things like that. But if you're not someone that has to interact with that part of the health care system, maybe you don't know, you don't know if abortion is banned in your state or if it's legal. Very early on in our research, we, you know, we do a lot of polling. We try to talk to as many voters as possible when we're doing that. But we saw that close to 45% of voters who at some point would like switch their vote on Amendment 3 believed that Missouri's abortion law had exceptions for survivors of rape and incest. So some of this work is just educating voters about sort of what is the state of abortion access. And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of the way that we do that is through first person storytelling and, you know, giving women and pregnant people the ability to share their own experiences and, you know, making sure voters understand that they have some self interest here. Right. Even if they don't see themselves as someone who may need access to abortion. Missouri's abortion laws are so out of step with their values. They impact the ability of women who are miscarrying to get timely access to care. They force doctors to wait for patients conditions to get worse before offering treatment. So I think the first sort of step is really just making sure voters understand, hey, what is at stake with my vote on this question. And then the second thing is, I think really just tapping into this shared value of not wanting politicians in our personal business. We want to keep politicians out of our personal medical decisions. They are not the best people to be making these decisions for women and their families. And I think that is something, at the end of the day that Missourians, whether we are Democrats or Republicans or nothing at all or somewhere in between, can agree on, that we are the best decision makers for the most important things in our own lives.

[Stacey Abrams]

We are in this moment where people are trying to figure out where they fit in. And one of the reasons I was excited to talk to you is that you have taken on a very difficult topic in really hard places at a time when losing feels inevitable and you have defied those expectations. Part of that is that you've understood coalition building, that you're not in this alone. Can you talk a little bit about beyond the conversation of abortion rights, but to the question of hard things and hard places at difficult times? How do you think about building those coalitions and what strengthens you to keep doing this work?

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah, I think it's really important to think about who are there strange bedfellows that we can develop in these trying times, which I feel like we've been on a series of trying times for the past eight years. It's always some new trying thing. But I think it has really, you know, whether it is the first Trump administration, the COVID 19 pandemic, the things that we are about to step into for the next four years, I think it has really encouraged people to sort of get outside of their comfort zones. And start having these difficult conversations, whether it is in households, right between members of families, whether it is at community meetings, right at your neighborhood association. You would be real surprised the kind of conversations that can happen. But I think those conversations are really important. And I think it's also important for folks to remember that you do not have to wait for someone's permission to start organizing. You do not have to wait to be asked to step up and help. So as folks are thinking about, you know, what. What am I supposed to do in this moment? You know, maybe I'm. I'm nervous about, you know, undocumented people in my community being deported. I am worried about losing my access to my health insurance. Right. Like, all of these things that I think are really big concerns. There are going to be groups and organizations and coalitions that have been working on these problems for a long time. And so you don't have to do this by yourself.

[Stacey Abrams]

Right.

[Rachel Sweet]

You are not alone to figure out, oh, gosh, what is the path forward? How do I do this? There are already organizations and groups that are working in communities that are serving populations that are directly impacted by the policy that you are worried about. So I think one of the ways that we move forward is we just hold hands and do this together because we have to. And that is the only way that we make change.

[Stacey Abrams]

So how do they find them? How do we go and find in our communities? I'm suddenly awakened, and I'm frustrated. I want to see something change. How do I start to find those organizations? Do I wait for them to find me? How do I find the folks who can help me, you know, become my own version of Rachel Sweet?

[Rachel Sweet]

Well, I don't want to say Google it, but, like, I think you can also kind of, like, look around, you know, is there somebody, you know, that, you know, is always that person that's, like, posting about stuff that's going on on Facebook? You know, I feel like everybody's got a friend that's like, oh, they're always posting some interesting article. Or, you know, they're, you know, went to a city council meeting the other day, and I don't even know when the city council meetings are. Look for those people in your network that maybe can help you get connected. I think that there is more and more organizing going on online these days, which I think is great. And a lot of it is maybe not even perceived as organizing by the people that are doing it. I think about, you know, my mom is a big Facebook user, and she's somebody who's like pretty. She watches the news. She's like pretty plugged in. But you know, it's interesting to see how there is, you know, organizing that can go on in the community awareness group for yourself. Small town in Missouri. There's organizing that can go on in a Facebook group that you joined to try and meet like minded people. Right. I think that our activism and our organizing cannot live solely on online spaces. But I think that's a really good and safe place for a lot of people to start. And I would just, you know, think about whatever your issue is looking up, you know, what is the group that is doing this work? How do I get plugged in? And sometimes that may require pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. Right. Everybody has always, you know, knocked a door or made a phone call or wrote a letter to an elected official for the first time. And it gets way easier the second, third, fourth, fifth time you do it. So I think yeah, we, we look for the helpers and then we try to be the helpers. Right. You know, in Missouri we had over 1900 volunteers that were collecting signatures with us in multiple congressional districts across the state, including in more rural areas, more conservative areas. And for lot of those folks, it was really the first time that they had gotten involved in a political campaign. They were really genuinely motivated by this particular issue. So if that is you, that is okay. They're, you know, collecting signatures to get something on the ballot is a really good place to start. There is an infrastructure for funding and supporting this work and part of the reason it exists is because in states like Missouri it is challenging to elect candidates who support our values and our issues. So we need to use the people's tool of direct democracy to make change happen. And I think before you dive into about measure campaign, I think you also need to evaluate is this the best tool to do what I want to see happen. Changing the Missouri Constitution isn't necessarily the best tool to solve every single problem.

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[Rachel Sweet]

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[Stacey Abrams]

You mentioned state legislators, and you and I both have worked at state capitals. I've been one of the people you have to talk to. You've been one of the people I look forward to saying hi to. So you've got lobbyists, you've got state legislators. When you think about ballot initiatives, are they enemies? Are they friends? Are you agnostic? How do you navigate? And to your point, sometimes the ballot initiative is the sort of nuclear option. How do you think about the role of state legislators and lobbyists before you get to a ballot initiative or as a part of that process?

[Rachel Sweet]

Yeah, well, I definitely don't think that they should be enemies. But I think what we've seen in states like Missouri and in states like Ohio is that often elected officials do see ballot measures as sort of being the enemy. You know, I think what happened last year in Ohio is a really good example. In August, you know, legislators in Ohio put a measure on the ballot to try and raise the threshold for ballot measures to require 60% of votes instead of a simple majority, a 50% plus one. And that failed enormously. And it failed enormously because of a well run and well organized campaign. And again, that same coalition building that helps us pass good policies can also help us stop bad policies. But it also happened because voters don't like giving their rights away. We don't typically want to vote away our own rights and our own ability to enact change. So while I don't think that the ballot initiative process and the workings of state government should be at odds with one another, sometimes politicians want to make them at odds and make it seem like people having this tool and this ability to do direct democracy is a threat to their power when it really doesn't have to be. So I think in a lot of ways, when you have a ballot measure campaign in a state like Missouri, that is something that once it is passed, can then be used as a tool to help lobby legislators and to help sort of, you know, either stop bad bills or move good bills forward. Because now you have a really significant proof point to say, hey, the voters in our state, and specifically look, you know, we can look here and say the voters in your district are very supportive of this. Here's how they voted on Amendment 3 or here's how they voted on Prop A to raise the minimum wage. But yeah, it is not necessarily, you know, it is often a tool of necessity because elected officials won't do the things that the people are demanding. In some states that's not the case, right? In some states, you know, one of your first lines of defense would you would want to lobby your elected officials. You would want to, you know, organize people around an issue. And as somebody who worked in a state legislature, let me tell you, elected officials are much more interested in talking to people who live in their district than they were ever interested in speaking to me, somebody who is paid to work for an organization, right? So like citizen lobbying matters, it does make a difference.

[Stacey Abrams]

And just to follow up on that, I mean, you referenced the 60% threshold that Ohio tried to pass. Florida, of course, made it 60% in part in response to the very successful Amendment 4 that re enfranchised formerly incarcerated persons. And so in response to the success of that ballot initiative this past year, unfortunately, the abortion ballot initiative failed because they made the threshold 60%. I think they got 57. Mississippi, a state where they were sued on the issue of education and where a ballot initiative was brought forward, they have now suspended essentially the use of ballot initiatives. When you think about that, are you afraid that ballot initiatives are going to cease to be an effective tool or are you anticipating that and what do we do next?

[Rachel Sweet]

So I think that we should absolutely anticipate seeing more attacks on the initiative petition process in states that have it right. Because it is not a tool that is universally available. And it is, you know, again, one of the reasons it's not a panacea is because not every state has access to this tool in the first place. But in places like Florida, like Ohio, like Missouri, where it has been used really effectively to move forward progressive policies, politicians are hell bent on Getting rid of the process or making it, in the case of Florida, really extremely challenging, if not impossible, to hit this really high 60% threshold. So I think when it comes to the future of ballot measures, we need to do everything that we can to fight for and defend and protect this tool. And if you want to talk about strange bedfellows, that is absolutely the case. If you think about initiative, petition, defense, because lots of organizations and lots of groups and lots of individuals can use this tool. Right. It is not just a tool that can be used for progressive change. Right. It can also be used to enact more conservative policies. It is the people's tool. It is access to direct democracy. And, you know, that is something that I think we should also be willing to team up with folks who may not agree with us on everything in order to preserve this tool that really benefits everybody.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, you mentioned that half the states almost do not have direct democracy. You've got Montana, Wisconsin, New York, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Texas, the Carolinas, Alabama, and my home state of Georgia. Those are places that have said direct democracy. You are not welcome here, or at least have not been pushed to make it so. But you've also talked about the importance of organizing and citizen engagement. What's your advice to those who don't have the tool of ballot initiatives but can use the tactics? I'm going to put you on the spot. What should those folks who have issues that matter to them, as someone who's been at the state capitol and who has been around these hard issues and hard places, what do you talk to? What do you say to those folks?

[Rachel Sweet]

I think that's a great question. And I think when we think about organizing, it's always really important to identify a target, right? Like what is the target and what is the tactic? And I think often the target is those in elected office. It is people in power. And sometimes when you work in a place like Missouri, that can get really exhausting because oftentimes the composition of your state legislature, the person that holds the governor's office, they don't change that much and they don't always necessarily change in the ways that you would like. So what I would really encourage is for folks to start thinking outside of organizing is just a tool to sort of change minds of elected officials. Right. There is a lot more that can be done in organizing work than just, you know, targeting. Hey, we need this legislator to filibuster this bill or to vote this way or, you know, we need to get a bunch of people to a town hall meeting. Those things are important. Those things matter. But I think now more than ever, as we head into the next four years, we are going to need community driven solutions to community problems. I've been thinking, you know, sort of now that I'm not working on a campaign right now, what is my role? You know, what are the things that I want to get involved in? And I have been looking at, you know, what are the ways that I can sort of like help out? You know, going to my neighborhood association meetings, go to your school board meeting. You know, there are. The closer that elected officials are to problems, the much more likely they are to be responsive to you. So, you know, there are plenty of issues that can be addressed in your, in your local community by really starting with the officials that are closest to the grassroots. And beyond that, I think that there are a lot of things that we can do to just be making sure that we're taking care of people in our communities. Right? What are the needs that my community has? You know, I mentioned earlier, you know, these concerns and these fears that I think are very valid that people have about, you know, targeting undocumented immigrants and things like that. You know, what are the organizations that are already helping Americans who are new to this country to, you know, sort of get assimilated, get, you know, language skills that they might need to effectively get a job, things like that? You know, there's a lot more that can be done than just trying to target elected officials to do the things we'd like them to do. That is very important. But that is also oftentimes a really long road to help. Right? It can take, you know, 5, 10, 15 years to try and change the makeup of your state legislature, but there are people in your community that need help today. So I think, you know, the closer we can get to the people in our communities, the more that we can get to know our neighbors, the more that we can identify these issues and come up with solutions that do not involve people that are in power, the better off we're going to be. And I think there are ways to do that. And we just gotta, we just gotta look around. And again, if somebody's not doing it, guess what? That's a great assignment for you.

[Stacey Abrams]

To my new friend, Rachel Sweet, a fiercely kind, polite Midwesterner, you are invited back anytime to tell us what to do and how to get it done. Rachel Sweet, thank you so much for being on assembly require today.

[Rachel Sweet]

Thank you so much for having me. It was a treat and a huge honor to be here.

[Stacey Abrams]

Each week. We want to leave the audience with an opportunity to make a difference and a way to get involved or just get started on working out a solution where you live. In a segment we like to call our Toolkit at Assembly Required, we encourage the audience to be curious, solve problems, and do good. As Rachel just shared with us, one of our first jobs is to be curious. So learn where your state stands on ballot initiatives and what you can do to organize with others who want to use that tool. With the Ballot Initiative Strategy [e-mail] you can find out if you're in one of those states and what you need to do next, but she also encouraged us to solve problems. Even if you live in a state without a ballot initiative, you can still be part of the legislative process and part of the change process. I would encourage you to go to indivisible.org Indivisible has a guide that's about how you can do work you want to do where you are right now. And lastly, doing good. Keep searching for the thing that you do best, that you can contribute to your community, no matter how small it is or how small it feels. Remember what we've been saying with our guest. You have something you do well. Whether it's organizing conversations with your neighbors through a book club or educating your family members about how decisions are made at the federal or state level, how they affect their lives, you can be part of that solution. But also remember that listening and supporting your local news outlets can also help make change. Because not everything happens in D.C. a lot of it happens closer to home. So do good and keep doing it. Every week here, the team at Assembly Required has been combing through your emails, which have been very kind, the personal essays and the questions that you've been sending us. And I'd like to address a few listener questions now from Rebecca Whitman. If something like Roe v. Wade can be overturned and Republicans are threatening to do away with the aca, then what does that mean for something like the Americans with Disabilities Act? Rebecca, thank you so much for this question. I want to tell folks to keep in mind that when we hear about attacks on dei, diversity, equity and inclusion, that includes things like the Americans with Disabilities Act. Those are one of the protected classes that diversity, equity and inclusion actually protect. And the reality is, as we have discovered again with the Dobbs decision in Roe v. Wade, with the erosion of the Voting Rights act, federal protections can be overturned or weakened. We know that some companies have actually expressed irritation with complying with accessibility requirements, so that means the ADA is not immune. Another aspect is that the Chevron deference decision from the Supreme Court earlier this year may also have an impact because much of the Americans with Disabilities act is subject to regulatory interpretation. What that means is that instead of saying, do this and that and the other, specifically in the statute, the statute said, here are all of these agencies, and they need to interpret what has to be done because the world doesn't remain static. What that means is that the federal government may now decide that it doesn't want to enforce components of the ada, and that means they can weaken it without ever having to overturn it. However, as the conversation with Rachel pointed out, we have other options. For example, states can still provide protections. Remember that even if the federal government doesn't protect it, if they overturn something unless they forbid actions, states can still take steps to strengthen laws, including laws protecting the disabled. So our job is to understand that yes, there is a threat and yes, there are challenges, but we still have a way to respond. Nancy Collins asked, so how do you find the strength to keep doing what you do to build a coalition to lead with compassion instead of reacting in anger? Okay, Nancy, I get angry. And let me be clear, anger is valid. So is despair. But neither can be your leading emotion or your permanent condition. Compassion requires that we understand not only those who are impacted, but what might be driving someone to take the steps to create harm. So compassion isn't just for us. It's also about how we understand those we are opposing. I'm always galvanized by determination. I take action and I don't stop because I'm determined to make things better, because I know what it feels like when things are wrong. But I'm always informed by compassion. Compassion meaning what's the impact of the harm, but also what is gnawing at another person that would make them do something that feels mean and petty and small. And that compassion helps me understand what I need to do to push back. And that's a strength, being able to navigate that. To push back and to not be overwhelmed is a strength we all hold. We just have to find it. And you mentioned coalitions. I like having friends with me, especially when I try to do something hard. That's what a coalition is. And coalitions don't always have to agree about the core idea. They have to agree on the core intent. So we don't have to come together for the same reason, but we all have to have the same outcome in mind. And as long as we can do that, coalitions hold. And there's strength always in those numbers okay, so if you want to tell us what you've learned and solved or what you're thinking, send us an [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the podcast. Our number is 213-293-9509. That wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Meet you here next week. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is a crooked media production. Our lead show producer is Alona Minkoff and our associate producer is Paulina Velasco. Kirill Paulaviev is our video producer. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Our theme song is by Vasilius Fotopoulos. Thank you to Matt DeGroote, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer and Samantha Slosberg for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long, Madeline Herringer and me, Stacey Abraham. Welcome to Dunkin with Amex Gold.

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[Rachel Sweet]

Can I have a medium iced coffee with one taste?

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